I think it's allowed always, because if you are tied into the rest-sling of the set (on the side of the arms) and not have it tied into your harness, a hard fall will still deploy the safety system (just a bit faster/earlier). Tying it into the far side essentially creates just a via ferrata set with shorter arms.
Agreed. Now, this of course requires a lot of know how and due diligence because whomever will do it as you say will have to proper master the knowledge. Worst case scenario analysis; what if the climber does this and as you say for a very short fall you actually end up with a partially deployed shock absorber? It is OK as per your specs to shortcut the lanyards and use them instead. Why not. It is the same. Their purpose is to make the experience smoother and nothing more. As long as you properly clip the resting and you don't introduce weak links you should be good. As I was saying, doing so will require know how because each deviation will introduce risk. So, what if you stress the shock absorber and eventually deploys? Of course, if it deploys that easily or if you fall that hard from a supposed to be resting position then there is definitely a problem (a big one) that you have. As a rule, I choos to keep them separate and never shortcut the Via Ferrata Set but you are right, it can be done and maybe this will actually keep you safer. More analysis required to conclude on climbing best practices and why one approach bight be good enough. Probably the simpler the system the better for the climber. Introducing even the resting system into the mix makes everything more confusing and difficult to handle for the general public. Imagine if we now make it complex enough that the probability of failure becomes almost certain. How can this best mitigated with the general public in mind?
@@JetSetYourself Not sure if you misunderstood me or if you are just discussing all scenarios, but I was not suggesting to shortcut the shock absorber. Shortcutting the shock absorber will introduce the limitations/exceptions that you mentioned (horizontal wire only and wire chest height). I think doing the third short arm on the rest sling will even make the whole system safer and shock absorber less likely to engage (compared to without a third arm) because the fall will be shorter (and less energy required to stop the fall) than with the two regular arms, where you would fall further and gain more momentum. In that sense, I would say that climbing with a third shorter arm (mounted without shortcutting the shock absorber) will make the climb more manageable (rest opportunity) and more safe (shorter falls, if they occur). All assuming the cable is close enough as in your example.
Wow, great idea, I wish I had thought of that when trying a D/E Traverse VF at a climbing area. I was a bit tired and nervously pulled too hard with the arms to retain my friction-traverse footing (no pins, etc.). Of course my arms got pumped and eventually the fingers went numb and I slipped down. Luckily the VF set did not deploy more than 1-2cm, but it was still VERY hard to get back up to the cable as my arms were tired. I can't retest this one as they took it away, I guess I was not the only one to fall there...
The thing with falling in the Via Ferrata Set on horizontals is how hard will get to get back up. If you don't have rungs or pegs for your feet to help yourself to recover you are in trouble because the Via Ferrata Set will push you way below the safety steel cable (and with a deployed shock absorber really far bellow) and to get up you will either have to rock climb (I creased chances to drop back again) or pull yourself up against the lanyards of the Via Ferrata Set (hard on the arms). PS. How is recovery going? How long now, three months since the operation?
I look forward for continuous good news. 10km? With the special boots? Is like normal boots or the plastic massive and hard to walk on boots you sometime see in movies?
Thank you! For the past two years and a half since finding about it I use Ypsilon from Climbing Technology with Via Ferrata rated carabiners from Petzl and Climbing Technology (or Singing Rock).
Please NEVER EVER use a static sling as a "rastschlinge" ! They WILL FAIL VERY EASILY in case of even a minor fall, not to mention that this fall itself can kill you because of extremely large forces working on your spine! Only use dynamic rope resting slings such as: Edelrid "Switch Adjust" Petzl "Connect Adjust"
Resting implies static load of the sling. There shall be no reason to fall. If properly utilised, a fall shall be static enough to not load the sling to the degree of a rupture of the sling itself or as you say, with dramatic effects on the structure of our body. It is true, dynamic rope can in the right circumstance help. Again, resting systems are for resting and if properly loaded there shall be no reason to get into the edge case scenario you use as a base for your call to action. If wrongly utilised yes, the effects you mention can happen, but these are edge case scenarios. On a bridge crossing a static resting system will not 0ut the climber in any danger if properly loaded. The slack is close to none, in case of a fall the climber will mostly swing. Now, let's suppose that the webbing will break, the climber is supposed at all times on a Via Ferrata to be clipped with the Via Ferrata Set to the safety steel cable. Again, the probability for the static webbing to rupture is low is special/edge conditions are not met. For vertical sections, the resting system shall be statically loaded and in this case there is no way of a fall. On vertical segments, the climber shall always stay way below the cable and again, the resting system shall be statically loaded with no chance of dynamic loading. The rupture of the webbing is a possibility if overloaded and the loading of it is dynamic enough under the stress of the overload to trigger that. If the static resting system is misused and a fall occurs yes, the worst can happen. But again, in this case is not the problem of using a static resting system (recommended for the cases where it is properly used) but of improperly using it. Yes, a static sling is meant for static loads. A resting situation is founded on the premise of a static load. The recomandation to employ the help of the resting system (if conditions of zero slack and no possibility of static load are met) is because if properly utilised it increases comfort and safety. It is important to understand all these details. It is also important to understand that the role of a resting system is to rest and shall not be utilised for personal protection on Via Ferrata. The only device to always be used on a Via Ferrata for personal protection shall be the Via Ferrata Set.
Great video.
Amazing channel... I have just subscribed :)
❤️ I just replied to your other comment
I think it's allowed always, because if you are tied into the rest-sling of the set (on the side of the arms) and not have it tied into your harness, a hard fall will still deploy the safety system (just a bit faster/earlier). Tying it into the far side essentially creates just a via ferrata set with shorter arms.
Agreed. Now, this of course requires a lot of know how and due diligence because whomever will do it as you say will have to proper master the knowledge.
Worst case scenario analysis; what if the climber does this and as you say for a very short fall you actually end up with a partially deployed shock absorber? It is OK as per your specs to shortcut the lanyards and use them instead. Why not. It is the same. Their purpose is to make the experience smoother and nothing more. As long as you properly clip the resting and you don't introduce weak links you should be good. As I was saying, doing so will require know how because each deviation will introduce risk. So, what if you stress the shock absorber and eventually deploys? Of course, if it deploys that easily or if you fall that hard from a supposed to be resting position then there is definitely a problem (a big one) that you have. As a rule, I choos to keep them separate and never shortcut the Via Ferrata Set but you are right, it can be done and maybe this will actually keep you safer. More analysis required to conclude on climbing best practices and why one approach bight be good enough. Probably the simpler the system the better for the climber. Introducing even the resting system into the mix makes everything more confusing and difficult to handle for the general public. Imagine if we now make it complex enough that the probability of failure becomes almost certain. How can this best mitigated with the general public in mind?
@@JetSetYourself Not sure if you misunderstood me or if you are just discussing all scenarios, but I was not suggesting to shortcut the shock absorber. Shortcutting the shock absorber will introduce the limitations/exceptions that you mentioned (horizontal wire only and wire chest height). I think doing the third short arm on the rest sling will even make the whole system safer and shock absorber less likely to engage (compared to without a third arm) because the fall will be shorter (and less energy required to stop the fall) than with the two regular arms, where you would fall further and gain more momentum. In that sense, I would say that climbing with a third shorter arm (mounted without shortcutting the shock absorber) will make the climb more manageable (rest opportunity) and more safe (shorter falls, if they occur). All assuming the cable is close enough as in your example.
Wow, great idea, I wish I had thought of that when trying a D/E Traverse VF at a climbing area. I was a bit tired and nervously pulled too hard with the arms to retain my friction-traverse footing (no pins, etc.). Of course my arms got pumped and eventually the fingers went numb and I slipped down. Luckily the VF set did not deploy more than 1-2cm, but it was still VERY hard to get back up to the cable as my arms were tired. I can't retest this one as they took it away, I guess I was not the only one to fall there...
The thing with falling in the Via Ferrata Set on horizontals is how hard will get to get back up. If you don't have rungs or pegs for your feet to help yourself to recover you are in trouble because the Via Ferrata Set will push you way below the safety steel cable (and with a deployed shock absorber really far bellow) and to get up you will either have to rock climb (I creased chances to drop back again) or pull yourself up against the lanyards of the Via Ferrata Set (hard on the arms). PS. How is recovery going? How long now, three months since the operation?
@@JetSetYourself Hi only 10 weeks so far but already walking 10Km on relatively flat ground with minimal rests - the special boots come off in 2 weeks
I look forward for continuous good news. 10km? With the special boots? Is like normal boots or the plastic massive and hard to walk on boots you sometime see in movies?
@@JetSetYourself Yeah they are very stiff, quite tight and angled forward slightly so walking is difficult
I was hunching they are like ski boots (stiff and angled). You have to expose the leg to the minimum. It makes sense. Maximum protection.
Awesome video, what kind of sling do you use here for the resting system?
Thank you! For the past two years and a half since finding about it I use Ypsilon from Climbing Technology with Via Ferrata rated carabiners from Petzl and Climbing Technology (or Singing Rock).
Please NEVER EVER use a static sling as a "rastschlinge" !
They WILL FAIL VERY EASILY in case of even a minor fall, not to mention that this fall itself can kill you because of extremely large forces working on your spine!
Only use dynamic rope resting slings such as:
Edelrid "Switch Adjust"
Petzl "Connect Adjust"
Resting implies static load of the sling. There shall be no reason to fall. If properly utilised, a fall shall be static enough to not load the sling to the degree of a rupture of the sling itself or as you say, with dramatic effects on the structure of our body. It is true, dynamic rope can in the right circumstance help. Again, resting systems are for resting and if properly loaded there shall be no reason to get into the edge case scenario you use as a base for your call to action. If wrongly utilised yes, the effects you mention can happen, but these are edge case scenarios. On a bridge crossing a static resting system will not 0ut the climber in any danger if properly loaded. The slack is close to none, in case of a fall the climber will mostly swing. Now, let's suppose that the webbing will break, the climber is supposed at all times on a Via Ferrata to be clipped with the Via Ferrata Set to the safety steel cable. Again, the probability for the static webbing to rupture is low is special/edge conditions are not met.
For vertical sections, the resting system shall be statically loaded and in this case there is no way of a fall. On vertical segments, the climber shall always stay way below the cable and again, the resting system shall be statically loaded with no chance of dynamic loading.
The rupture of the webbing is a possibility if overloaded and the loading of it is dynamic enough under the stress of the overload to trigger that.
If the static resting system is misused and a fall occurs yes, the worst can happen. But again, in this case is not the problem of using a static resting system (recommended for the cases where it is properly used) but of improperly using it.
Yes, a static sling is meant for static loads. A resting situation is founded on the premise of a static load. The recomandation to employ the help of the resting system (if conditions of zero slack and no possibility of static load are met) is because if properly utilised it increases comfort and safety.
It is important to understand all these details. It is also important to understand that the role of a resting system is to rest and shall not be utilised for personal protection on Via Ferrata. The only device to always be used on a Via Ferrata for personal protection shall be the Via Ferrata Set.
A 1m fall on concrete can injure you but definitely not kill you. Neither can a 1m static sling.