For Host club the sexism just past over my head because I know Haruhi was going to do it again. I just thought the theme was for Haruhi to have a better communication with the guys and sometimes you can ask for help.
Regarding the ouran beach episode, the manga portrays the whole incident way better, by the other hosts being more sweet and caring. The hosts explain to Haruhi that they were worried , Tamaki especially . All the guys understand that that haruhi 's independence is a bit of a double edged sword which makes it really hard to ask for help. In the manga, tamaki apologizes and reassures haruhi after the lightning. Also the scene with kyoya is wild and weird 💀 but in the manga it's made clear that he did that to portray the extremes that some people will go to. Basically haruhi takes it as a life lesson and realizes that she can ask for help but isn't actually scared because she knows that he has nothing to gain out of doing it.
@@demonheart13same but too many people take the scene too literally and assumes he was going to r-her. You would be surprised how many younger anime fans, who never gave the series a chance, think there is an actual r-scene in the show because of hearsay. The game of telephone plus how some people misinterpreted the scene has definitely harmed the series for some people. It’s sad to have to explain that this show is entirely appropriate and there is no r-scene in the series and they should give it an actual watch
@@meimeioma5477that wasn’t my problem with it. It’s the fact that when she said he had nothing to gain from doing that after he left the room he was thinking of something he could gain out of it🤢 this is why Mori is the better black hair boy
I think the situation between Sakura and Yukito is a little different, because it's completely one-sided, and Yukito has no interest in Sakura beyond friendship. Yukito is canonically gay and romantically attracted to Sakura's elder, age-appropriate brother, Toya.
@@ximenapacheco2711 i believe it’s because they are from a royal Chinese family and marrying into the family used to be very common. Not excusing it obvi but that could be the reason.
@@s1rennn824 I thought it was because they come from a magical family. If it was me I rewritten it I’ll make theme come from separate magical families and they’re families attempt to married them off to each other but for now they want them to be friend as apart of their plan.
@@brew.3032 I don’t think it’s bad or should be seen as a guilty pleasure. It brought up a lot of progressive ideas for that time, ideas that were seen as scandalous and weird. The fact that haruhi’s father is a drag queen and yet very much still a parent and still loved by his child. Haruhi being gender non conforming. Exploring trauma as well as how individuality is important. It’s honestly a show I needed at the time when I watched it. The manga is much better. But the anime helped me a lot and I will never not be grateful for it.
What we need...is that Vampire Knight video 👀 I love the "pure" love in Cardcaptors, it feels so safe and wholesome and kind, especially the friendships
THANK YOU for the OHSHC take omg. Yes, Haruhi WAS in the wrong! Shes intelligent but has no physical skills to truly defend herself and she was also, if i remember right, up against 3 guys! That was SO dangerous and reckless and the hosts had a right to be mad at her. And while, yeah, fhe scene with Kyoya can be icky... uhg, i loved it as a teen.
Definitely right in retrospective, Haruhi was actually in danger. At them time I watched it though, I was mad she couldn't handle it on her own and that they were mad at her. As an adult though, I can actually understand it. I'm in love with the nuance in these takes. I was also one of the people who loved the kyoya scene. Tbh that scene definitely awakened something in me. Like I know I should find it icky but tbh still a fantasy now... Let's not kinkshame guys it's 2024 😭😭 Honestly loved how she explained it though like 100℅ why I liked it so much then.
I do agree and I understand the character development they were trying to do with Haruhi here, but the overall execution just left a lot to be desired. The main thing that rubbed me the wrong way in this episode is how Haruhi is the ONLY one who apologized, when I really think Tamaki should have as well. I get why he was angry and that his anger stemmed from concern and fear for Haruhi, but that didn't make it okay for him to yell at her when she'd literally just been attacked and could have been seriously injured. Not to mention the undertone of victim blaming, which I super hate.
I'll always defend this episode. Kyouya scene? Yeah, it was fanservice, but I understand why people hate it. Now, I think Tamaki gets blamed way too much for screaming at Haruhi. He cares about her so of course he was worried, he was not going to calmly tell her "oh, you should've ask for help", he was agitated! And she did something dumb, and by the end she did actually learn to rely on others more.
@babithehuman2505 it's not completely that he yelled at her that bothers me so much, it's the fact that he never apologized for it that rubs me wrong. As understandable as it is why he yelled, that didn't mean it was okay for him to do. Haruhi had literally just been attacked, and what does Tamaki do? Start yelling at her and basically imply it was HER fault that she was attacked. Which granted, he was not completely wrong about, she should have gone for help instead of confronting three men on her own, but still, his behavior was callous and incredibly wrong footed. The only reason it doesn't seem worse in the episode is because Haruhi is weirdly unaffected by her attack and responds to Tamaki's anger with her own. Imagine if she had been realistically shaken and scared and Tamaki had still shouted at her like that. I don't know if I'd say I wish he hadn't shouted at all, a part of me wonders if maybe it wouldn't have clicked with Haruhi if he had been gentler, but again, that doesn't mean his behavior was okay. I just wish he'd have seen the fault in his response and apologized, then I wouldn't mind at all and I might not dislike this episode so much.
@@TiredSnowBerry yeah honestly, even if Tamaki was right to feel that way, he still didn't handle it the best and it was a bit jarring. He was also at fault there and should have apologised and talked it out properly about why he was upset and that he shouldn't have done what he did. His feelings weren't inherently wrong, but the way he acted on them was and they should have properly apologised and patched it up. So yeah he does loose parts in that department. But more than anything, I can now understand how he felt. If someone close to me got into an altercation like that and I nearly lost them, I'd be devastated and then frustrated too if they stubbornly refused to see what they did wrong and acted as though they would do it again in the future. Like standing up for people is great but it's not worth losing you for a stranger and yes that makes me selfish but it's just so human and real.
that haruhi ep was clunky, but i do think its important for her character arc. she grew up not being able to rely on anyone but herself and her character arc is about trusting the members of the club and opening up to people and being able to ask for help when she needs it. shes already an individualist girlboss, and she wouldnt grow or change as a character if people didnt challenge that aspect of her. the way it was handled is outdated and would not be done the same way if it was made today, but that doesnt mean the core lesson for her needs to be removed. just done better.
I agree that both were in the wrong, but my biggest problem with that episode is that it felt like the Host Club didn't think she had the right to defend herself, and that she should wait for the "big strong men" to save her. I get that she kind of instigated the situation, but at the same time saying just "sit there and wait for the boys to save you" really pisses me off because of the inherent sexism. Plus she did send one of the girls to get help...
This is what I've always thought of that episode. Good lesson and intentions, but total L execution. And that scene with Kyoya makes me wanna fckn die.
So Chobits was definitely not made for kids, as like an 11 year old when I saw it I definitely knew that ( which is why I watched it in the basement by myself). Despite all the fan service there’s some really interesting themes and discussions about love. I remember the teacher really stuck out to me, how she felt she wasn’t good enough and that she was abandoned because of it, to me her ex was the one in the wrong. He selfishly wanted their relationship to be perfect but love isn’t easy like that. I absolutely adored Chii too, and while I didn’t really care about Hideki, I liked seeing her become herself and exploring what love is.
The Wendy dipper thing is great because the age gap isn’t even extreme but Wendy still handles it great. I love that she says to Dipper “I’m too old for you” vs “you’re too young for me”
@@izzywoods794I kinda of realized from the beginning because on the manga one of the first things they mention about the school is that she transferred mid year on the 4th grade.
right? Like what elementary school have a student council who have so much power? Those kids are way too capable to be prepubescent I had mistakenly remembered them to be at least in middle school.
I remember knowing she was 12 and he was 16 (who knew it was even worse )but when I was a young teen I did not understand the implication of big age gaps.
I really do not understand why the mangaka didn’t just make Amu a middle school student. Like, a middle school and high school student would still be weird, but it would’ve been much better than what we actually got!
When I first read Shugo Chara, I did not understand how Amu was an elementary school student too! She looked like a middle schooler or atleast a 6th Grader!
I have a theory that they ended being elementary kids because of the guardians, they wouldn't fit as a club activity [high school] and middle school students tends to be busier with trying to get on a decent high school. And because comparing the the grades, elementary school kids have more free time.
Ouran Host Club and Fruits Basket were also the first animes I watched (and Lovely Complex) when I was 13! Then I discovered Chobits and it became my absolute favorite anime because I always loved media that had anything to do with robots, so android romance?? Sign me up!! I did not care at all for the male protagonist tho and was just absolutely in love with Chii, so I agree that there needs to be more shows written for girls who might be dreaming about finding a princess instead of a prince
I feel like some of the points were missed in that Ouran episode. When I was 13 watching that I took the lesson as: You can't do everything yourself, even if you're independent. Not the fact that she was a woman and needed a man to save her. Even rewatching at 16 I added another lesson to that when kyoya did that weirdo move that yes you should stand up for you and others, but at least be mindful of the situation. Haruhi went in trying to defend against guys that outnumbered her. She was alone in a room with a guy. She was actively putting herself in these situation without thinking first. I feel the uproar is more of people looking through a small lens and not the bigger picture.
Exactly how I felt back then when I first watched OHSHC, and how I still feel even as an adult. Just because you are little Miss Independent doesn’t mean that you can’t learn to accept help, or realize when you are in way over your head. It’s okay to ask for help people, it doesn’t make you weak or any less independent. It just means you can’t always do everything on your own, or at least you shouldn’t have to.
Yeah, a good message for Haruhi is there in the episode/chapters. But it felt like there were weirdly some sexist undertones in it. Like sexist guy snuck in the writers room & modded the script while no one was looking.
True, even as an adult, I still see the message as Haruhi needing to rely on others and that she doesn’t have to do everything on her own. It has nothing to do with her gender
Oooh! I’m definitely here for this!!! ✨✨ there is definitely some problematic relationships and dynamics in a lot of very popular Shojo anime/manga series. 😅 but the stories are so nice honestly 🩷
I always find it so interesting seeing how everyone has such different opinions on that ouron episode! I think I always viewed it as a case of "they were both kind of wrong". Haruhi does rely on herself too much (especially after losing her mum) but the host boys overeacted and caused unnecessary conflict, whilst being suck in old fashioned gender roles that the elite can afford to maintain. Maybe I'm very stubborn because i was never convinced they were supposed to be right lol. Also I'd 100% recommend Skip and Loafer, such an adorable shojo!
As usual, the book dealt with this situation a little better and Tamaki does actually apologize as well. As someone who saw Haruhi outside of the gender binary, I always saw the boys being upset not because she was just a girl who needed saving, but because she's got a weak nerd body with no sense of self-preservation and jumped into a highly dangerous situation where she could have gotten seriously injured or worse because of it. I've always understood why both parties were rightfully mad at each other, but calling it sexist was never in my thought process, just more of a Haruhi wasn't built for the situation physically because she's a nerd and nerds don't work out or spar or do much physical activity, not because she's "just a girl" Also, not super relevant but, Skip and Loafer is actually a seinen! Still worth a watch and super adorable though!
Right? I mean, how were my friends in 8th grade going past the first chapter??? We see how Chi is LITERALLY turned on, maybe kids back then didn't understand the implications? DX
thank you for showing just as much compassion to the freaky AND vanilla shojo girlies alike, everyone should get to have stories that make them feel seen and safe and too many ppl forget the importance these stories can be
I know that Shugo chara was not the best at treating amu and ikuto’s age gap. However, as an amuto shipper who used to be in the trenches (I was DOWN BAD for this ship and idc what anyone says, they are cannon CHECK THE MANGA), I am glad I watched it when I did. I rewatched it as an adult and it actually has great lessons on identity, girlhood and on being true to your feelings and yourself. Moreover, I could definitely tell that the show was written by women since it was filled with female gaze (even though I am 22, I was amazed at the effect inútil still had on me). Moreover, when I watched it I was around Amu’s age and it helped me explore my types in guys. I always knew I liked older guys which as a teen would be very dangerous. However, I find that media like this helped me explore these tastes without going out and actually dating an older man. Kind of like playing with fire without getting burned; even though I frangirles hard, I was aware that it was a show and that I could turn it off anytime. I mean looking at my younger self, I am very happy I stayed with 2D older men instead of having an actual older boyfriend who would’ve traumatised me more than I already am. Conclusion: Shugo chara ain’t perfect and may be trash but it is my trash! 😅. Any Shugo chara lovers around?
Me!!! I loved shugo chara! It's got its issues but can we just talk about the music??? Hoshina Utau songs ARE AMAZING even today! It's been like fifteen years and I can still sing Black Diamond and Meikyuu butterfly.
@@jessicam6276 I was around amu’s age when I watched originally but I always thought of her as 14 years old. Since they deal with such sensitive and tough subjects, it does not make much sense for them to be in primary school anyways. I understand it was for the target demographic but maybe making her at least middle school age would have been better.
@@owochocolate9298 I agree. I always felt like Amu herself felt more like a middle schooler but they wanted the emotional impact of the destruction of younger children's dreams (and to relate to younger girls) so they made her in elementary school. The whole romance focus feels a lot more consistent with middle school as well
@@jessicam6276 wow that actually makes sense! You are right, the dream destruction makes more sense in a primary school setting. You raise a good point.
This was such a well nuanced video that is given my intense forgotten memory flashback's!!!? I remember buying chobits from a CEX on DVD because I thought the cover looked really pretty. I remember playing it on the TV with my mum and sister in the room and the scene with him turning her on. It was a moment in my life for sure.
If it makes you feel better, Amu's mom finally catches Ikuto in her bedroom one night and reprimanded them both in the manga. This was during the climax of the manga. Win for active Anime parent.
Early 2000s being it’s own warning is so valid 😭 anytime I return to these shows for a good ol nostalgia rewatch I’m very uncomfortable, especially because I loved this media as a child and watching it w the context and knowledge of an adult makes it so much worse ☠️ Not just anime tbh all of my old favourite media of the 00’s
The thing about the demographic classifications is that its entirely based on where they were published. That's why there's some weird stuff sometimes that feels like it doesn't fit. If you want something that kind of has an Apothecary vibe, either give a read or a watch to Ascendance of the Bookworm. Similarl-ish protagonist but in a fantasy setting.
I like both those animes but I wouldn't really consider them similar except that the main characters each have an obsession. Apothecary is a romantic mystery drama, ascedence is very non romantic, there isn't any mystery, it's more of a fantasy slice of life with hints of drama towards the end. If you squint I guess you can say the commoner in an royalty setting is a similarity but a sentence has very very little of any actual class issues, it's more about work life balance. Apothecary barely has anything to do with her family she is very involves in the court life problems.
I feel like we also need to remember shojo animes are from Japan, a place where having inappropriate age range crushes were romanticized and for a long time wasn't that frowned upon and that Japan is also known for its sexism which is also romanticized by many people especially back in the early 2000s but luckily the younger gens are pointing out how weird it is.
dude 90% OF CHILDREN\TEENS HAVE CRUSHES ON SOMEONE OLDER. ITS NOT SOMETHING U CAN CHOOSE its natural. (whats not okay is for the older person to go after you, nothing wrong for a young person to have a little crush)
@@peachy9401 its a bit does since i was reffering to " inappropriate age range crushes" its okay for kids to have crushes, its not okay the other way around XD
@@yukichan177 Right but again I don't see how that relates to my comment but yes I agree its common for kids/teens to develop crushes on older people but its just the fact these animes were basically telling kids/teens that inappropriate age gaps are okay in relationships.
@@yukichan177 That's not the point tho. The point is that in Japan it's normalized to the point that there's a word for high school girls "dating" grown men because it was so common. Also lots of loli content would just be called child prrn here and it wouldn't be wrong to do so. Anime world is especially used to predators since mangakas get outted as ones so often so it's very notable that these relationships are so present in media created for kids.
Damn, I never found the beach episode of Ouran to be sexist. Uncomfortable with the Kyouya section, sure, but the whole helplessness I never see as something sexist. I also read it as Haruhi having lived independently for so long, she didn't know when to quit when things are way above her skill level. She didn't know how to be vulnerable and how it's okay to be vulnerable. I guess the fact that she's the lone girl in the host club made the whole situation seem sexist, but I think the host club was just more aware of the situation and, especially with Tamaki, didn't know how to process almost losing one of their friends to drowning. Tamaki and Haruhi weren't mature people, and at that point in the story, they had much to learn about each other. I think it was a necessary conflict to bring us to where the story eventually heads to.
I have been really enjoying Sign of Affection on Crunchyroll! Its such a cute romance and although having a few flaws is a really solid romance. It also is with college aged characters and that has been super refreshing when I have watched too many highschool romances! Here are quick recommendations: - Skip and Loafer - Chihayafuru (Kinda repetitive and will they wont they but good! - I am one season in) - Yona of dawn (Just had to put it here again because its so good!) - Apothecary Diaries Will they wont they: - Sasaki and Miyano - Lovely Complex - Blue Spring Ride -The Ice Guy and his Cool Female Colleague
You should watch Yamada lvl 1000 the MC is a college undergraduate and the male interest is in highschool. It fortunately doesn't involve highschool setting much and the age gap isn't that bad.
@@SemekiIzuio Im watching it now and I am on episode 6 and loving it! Thank you so much for the recommendations and so far the age gap is pretty easy to ignore! Thanks!
@@lilac24H yes the mc is like in her early 20s and the guy i dont remember if he's 18 or 16. But the gap isn't like a huge 10yr+ and Yamada is mature imo fits with his personality
@@SemekiIzuio hes 18 so it really isn't even big at all! Saying age gap was honestly a stretch lol and so it honestly wasn't bothersome. Also I finished the season and loved it!
I feel like why shows like Chobits were miscategorized as Shojo in the first place was the fact they were written by women. Idk if that’s entirely true but seeing how many editorial departments are male-dominated and minority tokenism (anything that isn’t a white man tokenism, to be clear) being so prominent in our industries, including now. I can totally see this being the case. Also hi, new viewer here I loved the video and the star hairpins and your jokes :D!
Watching the reboot fruits baskets made me love and hate it at the same time. I’ve never seen the original but god everyone just forgiving and excusing the abuser again and again made my blood boil! Like she deserved to be in jail and I haven’t even gotten started on the grooming and pedophilic relationships in that show😭 But other than that the main couple are so cute I cried at the end😩❤️
PLEASE give us the full Vampire Knight video!! or more about Shugo Chara because that and Kirarin Revolution were my intro to anime (obvi from the Hello!Project fandom route lool)
The scene after haruhi gets rescued turns out to be 'not as sexist as I remembered' because tamaki actually asks her if she knows martial arts before lecturing her! (hani senpai is small and looks frail but is actually a martial arts pro) I think the worst part is that it's very victim blaming BUT at the same time you could kinda see their side, viewing haruhi as too naive and careless about her own safety by trying to take those guys on her own when there was a better option. Like yeah, the biggest culprits were the GUYS DOING BAD THINGS, and not the victim ... but the real world can be cruel sometimes. NOW the kyouya scene is absolutely unaceptable and I HATE that this type of scene always finds a way to get in shoujo manga WTF (there's one like that in ao haru ride too) The female MC 'friend' pinning her down and basicaly saying 'haha I could r@pe you right now if I wanted lol'!! It's always horible
OMG CONNIE DID YOU JUST BACK AFTER ALL THESE 4 YEARS?!?!? I just want to say thank you for all your work, for your wonderful books that taught me a lot, thank you for your good energy which you pass on. Thank you for being here, dear Connie.❤
No bc I legit couldn't keep watching after all that abuse in boys over flowers knowing they were gonna get together in the end. I could not understand how anyone loved it enough that became what it was. Fr I tried to like it, I really did but I couldn't go on forcing myself through it. To me ouran was at least funny/ entertaining in general- the beach episode was just a one off spot and nowhere near what the poor boys over flowers heroine went through.
Ouran is perhaps the most influential anime that I ever watched and also one of the first five for me. I also saw the message as “people and things in the world are different and won’t always fit to your narrative and you just have to accept that” and this has become my motto in life. I never saw it as “women are weak and must be protected” because Haruhi was a bad bitch who didn’t swoon over any man that protected her.
For ouran high school I didn’t find that sexiest at all, it was dangerous. Kyoya shouldn’t have done that to get his message across. I don’t really like how people say that a woman is strong person if she can physically defend or overpower men. Just because a woman can’t physically defend themselves that doesn’t make the story sexiest. Amd the thing with MHA midoriya did get yelled at by the hero’s for doing something reckless and dangerous.
So what's the difference between them? From my viewing, seinem is just should with more mature subjects coming up (either as jokes or as drama) should occasionally also had those mature jokes but usually more obscure and over the head of the main. Character and thus the audience where as seinen the main character is well aware as the audience is also expected to be.
@@demonheart13Shoujo is manga/anime targeted at young girls and Seinen is manga/anime targeted at adult men Theres also josei which is for adult women and shonen for young boys
These are the more popular anime's.. This topic sure made me remember Kodomo no Jikan, which about three little girls (3rd grade) out of which one not only has a massive crush on her teacher - she's not only willing but also determined to make her teacher to reciprocate her feelings. My description is very vague, it was insane 💀
I've never watched shojo, but wow this was such an interesting video! Love your video essays! (Also the first anime I've ever seen was Death Note when I was like 14 and while a bit of a different vibe, looking back it kinda served me the similar purpose..since I had a huge crush on L)
so so so happy to see you uploading again...!! this style of video is so fun, i could honestly listen you talk about this type of stuff for hourssss ♡ i would love to hear you talk about Nana, esp since it has gained so much popularity lately...!! like what are your thoughts on the fashion, relationships, the endinggggg?? i saw another comment about how nostalgic this video was and how nice it is to view it with a more critical/adult point of view and i agree!! so much stuff we saw during the "unsupervised tween on the internet" during the 2000s era is so um.. interesting! truly a you had to be there time lol im glad we all survived it and get to revisit it with a new perspective
I recently started re-reading the entirety of CCS and I feel like I've only just now started realizing how many like age gap ships there are (like Sakura's parents are another teacher student one). I feel like growing up these things didn't translate to my undeveloped mind potentially because of how "wholesome" it was usually portrayed. Like Usagi and Mamo completely flew under my radar when I was a kid, even though pretty early on in the manga he like shows her his student I.D and is like I'm older than you. (also the way usagi and friends are drawn do not usually look typical 14) Also, oh my goodness, I've never seen anyone else ever mention Drama Con! Underrated as heck! I used to see it advertised in the back of TokyoPop mangas and then I think I saw it at a 2nd hand book place and decided to pick it up. It fits the convention vibes to a T (especially since I had a con crush) and is pretty cute. I read it every year before I go to a convention.
there wasnt anything innapropritate in ccs/// a child having a crush on an older person is natural and happens all the time.. (fans ships do not represent the canon in a series)
@@yukichan177 I wasn't talking about Yukito and Sakura. More of towards the line of Rika and Terada Sensei, who's the "older boy" she's dating and gives her a literal engagement ring. There's also a similar teacher student age gap between Sakura's parents. Both relationships are canon to the series.
Definitely one of my favorite mangas from childhood that i went to reread not so long ago that i think still holds up is Kitchen Princess!! i definitely 100% recommended it even has recipes that you can follow it’s so cute and the ending is very shocking like i did not expect
Some more recommendations! - Kimi ni Todoke (Reaching You) - It's actually making a comeback this summer! - Skip Beat - absolute slow burn, so be warned about that - Kami-sama Hajimemashita (Kamisama Kiss) - Lovely Complex - one of my personal faves tbh - Gakuen Alice - similar to Cardcaptor Sakura in some senses Personally read and watched these as a young teen; rewatched/reread most of these in recent years and I think they still hold up!
I’ve always considered "The Sun, the Sea, and the Host Club!" one of the best episodes of the show, but I’ve been intrigued by how much backlash there is with the depiction of the conflict and it’s resolution. I don’t necessarily think Haruhi was in the wrong for wanting to try and stop some guys from continually sexual harassing other girls, but I do understand why the guys (especially Tamaki) were worried in the first place. I've always interpreted that they were more confused as to why Haruhi didn’t bother rushing to inform the others of the situation when they would prepare to drop everything to help her out. I think that was their problem with the ordeal and Haruhi acknowledges that she is sorry that she made them worried for her. At the same time, Tamaki apologies for his words prior when he fully realizes that Haruhi was used to handling situations on her own and understood that she felt like she shouldn’t have to ask for help, making his assurance that she’s no longer alone or has to deal with problems on her own all the more sweeter. As for the Kyoya scene, since Haruhi was at a point where she understood the root of Tamaki’s frustration, I don’t think going THAT far was necessary for Kyoya to do. I do however find it is interesting in retrospect how much time Haruhi has spent with the club at that point to know that Kyoya’s actions are not only out of character for him and is confident that he wouldn’t follow through with it, but suspects that he did it to emphasize the worries Tamaki had for her in that particular situation.
15:02 YIKES. This is so similar to a real and traumatic experience I had, I can definitely understand why this scene upset a lot of people. Truly flabbergasting that they would put that kind of scene and messaging in a show for young girls.
I understand the general fantasy and what you mean by saying that she was actually “safe”- but in real life having someone make you believe even temporarily that they might assault you and demonstrating how easy it would be for them to do so isn’t being “safe”- it’s a traumatic event. Anyone who would do something like that is NOT someone who could also be safe to be around.
13:16 IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!? Even statistically it is harder for a woman to beat a man in combat. Not all the time but the majority of the time. Plus haruhi was just trying to argue as if these guys don’t have aggressive tendencies??? It was very unwise of her to deal with this alone.
I just started re-watching Chobits and if I took shots of water everytime one of them said p**n I'd drown. All I remember was loving Chi's hair and outfits lol.
As a person who's first anime at 13 was Vampire Knight (and second one was Rosario + Vampire which was litterally male gaze all over it) I neeeed that Vampire Knight video!
I was 10 when i watched shugo chara and fell in love with Tadase as a character, i loved the contrast between him being a polite prince whose dream was to take over the world. I actually didn't have any strong feeling about ikuto other than the fact my sister rlly liked him. When he started getting more screentime i was sad, when there was more romance with him i dropped it cuz it wasn't my otp Tbh i didn't ship Amu with anyone, i shipped side characters more ngl. To me i wanted Amu to find confidence over romance (tbh whenever a guy or girl appeared on the show i judged whether they could be worthy the queen) Came back at 12 when the age gap finally clocked and decided not to think further inorder to not ruin my views of the show cuz it was one of my first anime and i have like crazy attachment and good memories with it. Yeah it was not cool but at least 12yr old me was aware enough to know thats not cool and was able to separate fiction and reality.
ookami shoujo to kuro ouji completely broke me when I was a teen lmao It soured my relationship with shoujo completely even if it was just a bad apple LMAO IT WAS THAT BAD OMG Some obscure shoujos I REALLY LIKE are: 'kawaii hito' by saitou ken (a rare shoujo where the MC is actually an ADULT MAN who works at a flower shop, it's SUPER SWEET and uncomplicated, they are dating on chapter ONE and it's just PURE FLUFF , SO MUCH FLUFF) 'mizutama honey boy', this one is just insane but I love it cuz it completely breaks gender roles as a completely afeminate boy falls in love with a stoic athletic girl! It has the same vibes as ouran, like, it's world is kinda absurd (a high school student just shows up carrying agiant bear he just defeated like it's nothing) and the story is VERY comedy focused while ALSO having a few serious romantic , heart pounding scenes at same time
Also if you liked this video, you might enjoy the Contrapoints video about Twilight, for more analysis of women's fantasies in fiction & how that can feature problematic/dangerous rhetoric. It also explores whether it's our responsibility to "prevent" women glorifying toxic & abusive behaviour in fiction, to help protect them irl (i don't think so lol)
I define the japanese genres under another form Shounen: the MC changes the world Seinen; the world changes the MC Shoujo: a girl discovers she is special Josei: being special requires hard work Its so weird how you define it all based around romance
I went on a big anime binge just after high school for about 3 years, and I could tell almost immediately after starting it that Chobits was aimed towards men because it shows mainly male characters with female persocoms. If it was going to target girls, why not have female characters with male persocoms instead? Or even feature characters with persocoms of the same gender, opposite gender, or a bit of both while focusing on a male with a female persocom or a female with a male persocom? If I was to give Chobits a rewrite or modern adaptation, that's what I would do for some episodes while keeping the main storylines in tact.
UA-cam just recommended this video and just for watching a few seconds I inmediately recognized you!!! Your voice and eyes are unique! You were one of the first youtubers I liked. I'm happy to see you started to make content again 🙌🏼💗
Shoujo is keeping me alive rn, I wanna make my own magical girl comic 😭 I need to develop my OC tho cause she doesn’t even have a name yet lol. Plus I’m busy with life stuff and writing a different comic. It’s also a romance, he finds her corpse on the rode after a car crash 🥰
A couple anime I almost watched but stayed away from was Diabolic Lovers, and Yamadas first time. I also loved that you mentioned Fushigi Yugi. That is one of my top 3 anime.
UA-cam just introduced you in my feed, and I would say, apart from providing such great commentary that all shojo and josei need, you also have great taste in anime and manga - Shoujo Kakumei Utena and Fushigi Yuugi were also my favourites back in the day!
Ngl even though vampire knight is one of the most problematic and cheesy series...it's still a guilty pleasure of mine (just like every series you talked about lol) Would love to see a video where you do a deep dive into vampire knight
I loved your videos back in the day and I'm so happy you're back, especially back being yourself 🥹 Sightly related or unrelated, because I get confused with this one but when I was younger I watched a show called toradora, thinking it was a shoujo, when actually it's a shonen???? 😕 It'll be cool seeing more deep dives into anime and getting flashbacks every time you mention something I watched when I was younger😂
AMU IS 11????? I’ve always THOUGHT GIRLIE WAS 14-15. She looked and acted as such….NO WAY she was 11!!! If she was 11-15 it would make more sense with Ikuto who looks 17!
I love getting confirmed by my girl Connie that I've had exactly 0 (zero) unique experiences in my life. Love you queen I need more video essay content from you
I personally Love Vampire Knight, I watched it when I was little because of the Guys lmao, but now as an Adult I still come back to it not only for the guys but the art style
You look so pretty Connie! 💜 I really wanna see that vampire knight video! 😂 it’s also my guilty pleasure comfort anime which I know is terrible 😅 Something to think about with shoujo anime’s and mangas. I think it’s an interesting topic of conversation and something I do always like to tell people (not to defend bad behaviours) is that the age of consent in Japan was 13 and has only recently been changed to 16. With that being said I do think if you look at this issue overall it’s interesting how it’s mostly people from a different demographic who who have either grown up (like us) and seen the issue and thought eew! 😅 or it’s people just watching these now. But I think people do forget that the majority of these anime’s were made by Japanese women whom are from that older generation where they were able to be married at 14. (I know this isn’t the case for all areas but generally) and I think like Connie said from a comment she saw the ideas of the problematic anime scenes we see are/were made in a purely innocent manner of the age of the characters and with the age of consent being different to where these anime’s were made I think does make a big difference because the culture, environment, laws and societal norms do have an impact on the demographic in that area. I think also with places like Japan being one of the places with the lowest crime rates and the amount of effort that’s gone in to make women safe places. I just think the whole mind set and norms are so different everywhere and I think rather than people getting so uppity and kicking off about some older problematic anime’s, to look at educating and protecting young girls rather than thinking too much. I think there needs to be balance. I don’t think my post has made much sense at all but hey, least we can all agree we want more shoujo anime’s!! 😉😂
I think also the 2000’s was just a weird time! 😅 also where the internet and computers were still very new at that time didn’t help I don’t think. And also I think a lot of us watched these shojos at around 13 or something at the age they were intended for but nowadays some people are only just watching them now in their 20’s or something which does change the anime depending on your mind set.. if that makes sense 🤷🏻♀️
I watched Shugo Chara when I was 12 and I was obsessed with Ikuto. I never finished the show back then, but sixteen years later I finally did last month and I was begging for it to stop 😭 The age gap is wild 😭
YAAAS! Literally yas to everything you said! I grew up on the same shojo and I LOVE the thought and care you put into this. I have also never considered the target audience and intended purposes of shojo and that makes SO MUCH sense. Lol Chobits. One of my first manga was Mars, not shojo (I think??) but definitely romance for girls.
I liked Ikuto when I was younger cause of the cuddle scene. Like, not many shows or books had the characters sleeping together non sexually, and that always stuck with me tbh.
Also I don't think it's necessarily "from the pure POV of a little girl, who is the target audience," I think the intense age gap issue with 2000s anime/manga is a ripple of repressed sexuality and normalizing hebephilia (bc at the time Japan's legal age of consent was 13, just a few years ago it became 16,) because of Japanese conservative sexism (she is a tween, but is old enough to reproduce, there for she is considered a woman in the eyes of a predatory conservative man).
you mentoning the kyoya pinning haruhi scene reminded me of the frog scene from the apothecary diaries. like it's a funny scene but it made me super conflicted on how to think of jinshi and especially the fact that i ship them a lot
Wait wait wait wait wait.... About a year ago maybe a little less... I went through all my subscriptions and saw you toward the bottom and thought you were done with youtube and was so so sad and said goodbye. you had only some videos of you going to Japan and your music, I believe. I missed you! I loved watching you! OMG resub resub! AAAAAHHHH! It wasn't your persona so much as just watching you struggle (like a normal person going thru struggles) and change and grow and revamp. It made change seem a little more normal. I'm glad to be back ^.^ Oh and in Fruits Basket, the 2017 version and I believe the manga, Uotani who was like 17, was getting with a 29 year old ..... still sits weird with me
Best shojo manga I ever read (or at least its my favorite) is Hana Kimi. Yes, it was 90s shojo and has some of the problematic aspects you mentioned. However, it's so much like Ouran in the premise. And if you don't like Manga, then I'd recommend one of its several Drama adaptations. (Taiwan's was the best)
For Host club the sexism just past over my head because I know Haruhi was going to do it again. I just thought the theme was for Haruhi to have a better communication with the guys and sometimes you can ask for help.
Regarding the ouran beach episode, the manga portrays the whole incident way better, by the other hosts being more sweet and caring. The hosts explain to Haruhi that they were worried , Tamaki especially . All the guys understand that that haruhi 's independence is a bit of a double edged sword which makes it really hard to ask for help. In the manga, tamaki apologizes and reassures haruhi after the lightning. Also the scene with kyoya is wild and weird 💀 but in the manga it's made clear that he did that to portray the extremes that some people will go to. Basically haruhi takes it as a life lesson and realizes that she can ask for help but isn't actually scared because she knows that he has nothing to gain out of doing it.
Was this not clear to some people in the show? I watched the show and understood all of that.
@@demonheart13same but too many people take the scene too literally and assumes he was going to r-her. You would be surprised how many younger anime fans, who never gave the series a chance, think there is an actual r-scene in the show because of hearsay. The game of telephone plus how some people misinterpreted the scene has definitely harmed the series for some people. It’s sad to have to explain that this show is entirely appropriate and there is no r-scene in the series and they should give it an actual watch
@@meimeioma5477that wasn’t my problem with it. It’s the fact that when she said he had nothing to gain from doing that after he left the room he was thinking of something he could gain out of it🤢 this is why Mori is the better black hair boy
I think the situation between Sakura and Yukito is a little different, because it's completely one-sided, and Yukito has no interest in Sakura beyond friendship. Yukito is canonically gay and romantically attracted to Sakura's elder, age-appropriate brother, Toya.
Ah damn yes you’re right! I was supposed to put a little addendum about Toya and Yukito but completely forgot
I know this is about age gap, but let’s not forget Lee and Meling are cousins (there not the only cousins trying to be together).
@@ximenapacheco2711 i believe it’s because they are from a royal Chinese family and marrying into the family used to be very common. Not excusing it obvi but that could be the reason.
@@s1rennn824 I thought it was because they come from a magical family. If it was me I rewritten it I’ll make theme come from separate magical families and they’re families attempt to married them off to each other but for now they want them to be friend as apart of their plan.
Honestly, out of ALLLLLLL the many, many, many sus relationships in CCS, Sakura’s short lived and unrequited crush on Yukito ain’t making the cut
I know it’s problematic but ouran is my comfort show
Mine too honestly
Im just gonna hide in the manga
It’s so bad… but I can’t stop watching it because I love it so much 😅😅😅
It was pogressive for its time. The fact it is uncomfortable today is a testament to how much we have grown as a culture
@@brew.3032 I don’t think it’s bad or should be seen as a guilty pleasure. It brought up a lot of progressive ideas for that time, ideas that were seen as scandalous and weird. The fact that haruhi’s father is a drag queen and yet very much still a parent and still loved by his child. Haruhi being gender non conforming. Exploring trauma as well as how individuality is important. It’s honestly a show I needed at the time when I watched it. The manga is much better. But the anime helped me a lot and I will never not be grateful for it.
What we need...is that Vampire Knight video 👀
I love the "pure" love in Cardcaptors, it feels so safe and wholesome and kind, especially the friendships
THANK YOU for the OHSHC take omg. Yes, Haruhi WAS in the wrong! Shes intelligent but has no physical skills to truly defend herself and she was also, if i remember right, up against 3 guys! That was SO dangerous and reckless and the hosts had a right to be mad at her.
And while, yeah, fhe scene with Kyoya can be icky... uhg, i loved it as a teen.
Definitely right in retrospective, Haruhi was actually in danger. At them time I watched it though, I was mad she couldn't handle it on her own and that they were mad at her. As an adult though, I can actually understand it. I'm in love with the nuance in these takes.
I was also one of the people who loved the kyoya scene.
Tbh that scene definitely awakened something in me. Like I know I should find it icky but tbh still a fantasy now... Let's not kinkshame guys it's 2024 😭😭
Honestly loved how she explained it though like 100℅ why I liked it so much then.
I do agree and I understand the character development they were trying to do with Haruhi here, but the overall execution just left a lot to be desired. The main thing that rubbed me the wrong way in this episode is how Haruhi is the ONLY one who apologized, when I really think Tamaki should have as well. I get why he was angry and that his anger stemmed from concern and fear for Haruhi, but that didn't make it okay for him to yell at her when she'd literally just been attacked and could have been seriously injured. Not to mention the undertone of victim blaming, which I super hate.
I'll always defend this episode. Kyouya scene? Yeah, it was fanservice, but I understand why people hate it. Now, I think Tamaki gets blamed way too much for screaming at Haruhi. He cares about her so of course he was worried, he was not going to calmly tell her "oh, you should've ask for help", he was agitated! And she did something dumb, and by the end she did actually learn to rely on others more.
@babithehuman2505 it's not completely that he yelled at her that bothers me so much, it's the fact that he never apologized for it that rubs me wrong. As understandable as it is why he yelled, that didn't mean it was okay for him to do. Haruhi had literally just been attacked, and what does Tamaki do? Start yelling at her and basically imply it was HER fault that she was attacked. Which granted, he was not completely wrong about, she should have gone for help instead of confronting three men on her own, but still, his behavior was callous and incredibly wrong footed. The only reason it doesn't seem worse in the episode is because Haruhi is weirdly unaffected by her attack and responds to Tamaki's anger with her own. Imagine if she had been realistically shaken and scared and Tamaki had still shouted at her like that. I don't know if I'd say I wish he hadn't shouted at all, a part of me wonders if maybe it wouldn't have clicked with Haruhi if he had been gentler, but again, that doesn't mean his behavior was okay. I just wish he'd have seen the fault in his response and apologized, then I wouldn't mind at all and I might not dislike this episode so much.
@@TiredSnowBerry yeah honestly, even if Tamaki was right to feel that way, he still didn't handle it the best and it was a bit jarring. He was also at fault there and should have apologised and talked it out properly about why he was upset and that he shouldn't have done what he did. His feelings weren't inherently wrong, but the way he acted on them was and they should have properly apologised and patched it up. So yeah he does loose parts in that department.
But more than anything, I can now understand how he felt. If someone close to me got into an altercation like that and I nearly lost them, I'd be devastated and then frustrated too if they stubbornly refused to see what they did wrong and acted as though they would do it again in the future. Like standing up for people is great but it's not worth losing you for a stranger and yes that makes me selfish but it's just so human and real.
that haruhi ep was clunky, but i do think its important for her character arc. she grew up not being able to rely on anyone but herself and her character arc is about trusting the members of the club and opening up to people and being able to ask for help when she needs it. shes already an individualist girlboss, and she wouldnt grow or change as a character if people didnt challenge that aspect of her. the way it was handled is outdated and would not be done the same way if it was made today, but that doesnt mean the core lesson for her needs to be removed. just done better.
I agree that both were in the wrong, but my biggest problem with that episode is that it felt like the Host Club didn't think she had the right to defend herself, and that she should wait for the "big strong men" to save her. I get that she kind of instigated the situation, but at the same time saying just "sit there and wait for the boys to save you" really pisses me off because of the inherent sexism. Plus she did send one of the girls to get help...
This is what I've always thought of that episode. Good lesson and intentions, but total L execution. And that scene with Kyoya makes me wanna fckn die.
So Chobits was definitely not made for kids, as like an 11 year old when I saw it I definitely knew that ( which is why I watched it in the basement by myself).
Despite all the fan service there’s some really interesting themes and discussions about love. I remember the teacher really stuck out to me, how she felt she wasn’t good enough and that she was abandoned because of it, to me her ex was the one in the wrong. He selfishly wanted their relationship to be perfect but love isn’t easy like that. I absolutely adored Chii too, and while I didn’t really care about Hideki, I liked seeing her become herself and exploring what love is.
The Wendy dipper thing is great because the age gap isn’t even extreme but Wendy still handles it great. I love that she says to Dipper “I’m too old for you” vs “you’re too young for me”
I just assumed that Amu was like 14 and Ikuto 16 😬
that would have made more sense!!! i remember always being hyper aware of her being in elementary school and thinking it didn't make sense
I realized she was in elementary school when they made a big deal about the Jack chair graduating to middle school like he was dying or something😂
@@izzywoods794I kinda of realized from the beginning because on the manga one of the first things they mention about the school is that she transferred mid year on the 4th grade.
right? Like what elementary school have a student council who have so much power? Those kids are way too capable to be prepubescent I had mistakenly remembered them to be at least in middle school.
I remember knowing she was 12 and he was 16 (who knew it was even worse )but when I was a young teen I did not understand the implication of big age gaps.
I really do not understand why the mangaka didn’t just make Amu a middle school student. Like, a middle school and high school student would still be weird, but it would’ve been much better than what we actually got!
When I first read Shugo Chara, I did not understand how Amu was an elementary school student too! She looked like a middle schooler or atleast a 6th Grader!
@@MysticTheFloofBall Exactly!
Same also Amu and the others didn't behave like kids, it was until laterI realize she was in elementary
@@SemekiIzuio Exactly! They act like they’re already in middle school!
I have a theory that they ended being elementary kids because of the guardians, they wouldn't fit as a club activity [high school] and middle school students tends to be busier with trying to get on a decent high school.
And because comparing the the grades, elementary school kids have more free time.
Ouran Host Club and Fruits Basket were also the first animes I watched (and Lovely Complex) when I was 13! Then I discovered Chobits and it became my absolute favorite anime because I always loved media that had anything to do with robots, so android romance?? Sign me up!! I did not care at all for the male protagonist tho and was just absolutely in love with Chii, so I agree that there needs to be more shows written for girls who might be dreaming about finding a princess instead of a prince
I fell in love with the Villainess is such a good example of this
I feel like some of the points were missed in that Ouran episode. When I was 13 watching that I took the lesson as: You can't do everything yourself, even if you're independent. Not the fact that she was a woman and needed a man to save her.
Even rewatching at 16 I added another lesson to that when kyoya did that weirdo move that yes you should stand up for you and others, but at least be mindful of the situation. Haruhi went in trying to defend against guys that outnumbered her. She was alone in a room with a guy. She was actively putting herself in these situation without thinking first.
I feel the uproar is more of people looking through a small lens and not the bigger picture.
Exactly how I felt back then when I first watched OHSHC, and how I still feel even as an adult. Just because you are little Miss Independent doesn’t mean that you can’t learn to accept help, or realize when you are in way over your head. It’s okay to ask for help people, it doesn’t make you weak or any less independent. It just means you can’t always do everything on your own, or at least you shouldn’t have to.
That how I felt harui was so closed off to others and needed to except help and friends
Yeah, a good message for Haruhi is there in the episode/chapters. But it felt like there were weirdly some sexist undertones in it. Like sexist guy snuck in the writers room & modded the script while no one was looking.
True, even as an adult, I still see the message as Haruhi needing to rely on others and that she doesn’t have to do everything on her own. It has nothing to do with her gender
i agree with all that the only was the last scene, that was gross for him to do... the overall message is reasonable tho
Oooh! I’m definitely here for this!!! ✨✨ there is definitely some problematic relationships and dynamics in a lot of very popular Shojo anime/manga series. 😅 but the stories are so nice honestly 🩷
no i totally get it, it really is the ultimate comfort media for me
@@ConnieGlynn30 literally! I just now finished the video and wow you really hoped my eyes to other perspectives on this!! Absolutely amazing video!
@@glitteremm ahh thank you!! i'm really happy with this one so that means a lot
I always find it so interesting seeing how everyone has such different opinions on that ouron episode!
I think I always viewed it as a case of "they were both kind of wrong". Haruhi does rely on herself too much (especially after losing her mum) but the host boys overeacted and caused unnecessary conflict, whilst being suck in old fashioned gender roles that the elite can afford to maintain. Maybe I'm very stubborn because i was never convinced they were supposed to be right lol.
Also I'd 100% recommend Skip and Loafer, such an adorable shojo!
As usual, the book dealt with this situation a little better and Tamaki does actually apologize as well. As someone who saw Haruhi outside of the gender binary, I always saw the boys being upset not because she was just a girl who needed saving, but because she's got a weak nerd body with no sense of self-preservation and jumped into a highly dangerous situation where she could have gotten seriously injured or worse because of it. I've always understood why both parties were rightfully mad at each other, but calling it sexist was never in my thought process, just more of a Haruhi wasn't built for the situation physically because she's a nerd and nerds don't work out or spar or do much physical activity, not because she's "just a girl"
Also, not super relevant but, Skip and Loafer is actually a seinen! Still worth a watch and super adorable though!
I definitely knew Chobits was not shojo, even back then. There was so much fan service, and I think even back then, I knew that was abnormal.
Right? I mean, how were my friends in 8th grade going past the first chapter??? We see how Chi is LITERALLY turned on, maybe kids back then didn't understand the implications? DX
thank you for showing just as much compassion to the freaky AND vanilla shojo girlies alike, everyone should get to have stories that make them feel seen and safe and too many ppl forget the importance these stories can be
I know that Shugo chara was not the best at treating amu and ikuto’s age gap. However, as an amuto shipper who used to be in the trenches (I was DOWN BAD for this ship and idc what anyone says, they are cannon CHECK THE MANGA), I am glad I watched it when I did. I rewatched it as an adult and it actually has great lessons on identity, girlhood and on being true to your feelings and yourself. Moreover, I could definitely tell that the show was written by women since it was filled with female gaze (even though I am 22, I was amazed at the effect inútil still had on me). Moreover, when I watched it I was around Amu’s age and it helped me explore my types in guys. I always knew I liked older guys which as a teen would be very dangerous. However, I find that media like this helped me explore these tastes without going out and actually dating an older man. Kind of like playing with fire without getting burned; even though I frangirles hard, I was aware that it was a show and that I could turn it off anytime. I mean looking at my younger self, I am very happy I stayed with 2D older men instead of having an actual older boyfriend who would’ve traumatised me more than I already am. Conclusion: Shugo chara ain’t perfect and may be trash but it is my trash! 😅. Any Shugo chara lovers around?
Me!!! I loved shugo chara! It's got its issues but can we just talk about the music??? Hoshina Utau songs ARE AMAZING even today! It's been like fifteen years and I can still sing Black Diamond and Meikyuu butterfly.
Very similar to my experience. Still a fan and when I rewatch I try to just pretend it's not weird so I can enjoy it like I did when I was 12/13
@@jessicam6276 I was around amu’s age when I watched originally but I always thought of her as 14 years old. Since they deal with such sensitive and tough subjects, it does not make much sense for them to be in primary school anyways. I understand it was for the target demographic but maybe making her at least middle school age would have been better.
@@owochocolate9298 I agree. I always felt like Amu herself felt more like a middle schooler but they wanted the emotional impact of the destruction of younger children's dreams (and to relate to younger girls) so they made her in elementary school. The whole romance focus feels a lot more consistent with middle school as well
@@jessicam6276 wow that actually makes sense! You are right, the dream destruction makes more sense in a primary school setting. You raise a good point.
This was such a well nuanced video that is given my intense forgotten memory flashback's!!!? I remember buying chobits from a CEX on DVD because I thought the cover looked really pretty. I remember playing it on the TV with my mum and sister in the room and the scene with him turning her on. It was a moment in my life for sure.
I do take a bit of issue with calling apothecary diaries shojo purely cus it equates girls media with romance/ having a female protagonist
yes good point!! didn't consider this.
she called chobits shoujo too, when theyre both seinen...
If it makes you feel better, Amu's mom finally catches Ikuto in her bedroom one night and reprimanded them both in the manga. This was during the climax of the manga. Win for active Anime parent.
An Amu's mon W.
Chobits was one of my first anime’s when I was 14 and now it makes sense why I felt I was … mature. 😂
one of those ones you'd be scared for your parents to catch you watching truly
Same ! I felt like a big girl at the time.✨💕
I saw Chii in the thumbnail, and I clicked!
I watched Chobits with my grandma... she liked it.
@@ConnieGlynn30 just fyi chobits is not shoujo, and shoujo is not a genre...
this content is right up my alley. YES. i watched all of these in my teen years 😂😭
Early 2000s being it’s own warning is so valid 😭 anytime I return to these shows for a good ol nostalgia rewatch I’m very uncomfortable, especially because I loved this media as a child and watching it w the context and knowledge of an adult makes it so much worse ☠️ Not just anime tbh all of my old favourite media of the 00’s
Not me questioning whether 13 year old me wrote that amuto post 🤣 was knee deep in that fandom. Also absolute fav shojo was Nana, that shaped me.
Every day a Connie video essay is uploaded is a good day
The thing about the demographic classifications is that its entirely based on where they were published. That's why there's some weird stuff sometimes that feels like it doesn't fit.
If you want something that kind of has an Apothecary vibe, either give a read or a watch to Ascendance of the Bookworm. Similarl-ish protagonist but in a fantasy setting.
I like both those animes but I wouldn't really consider them similar except that the main characters each have an obsession. Apothecary is a romantic mystery drama, ascedence is very non romantic, there isn't any mystery, it's more of a fantasy slice of life with hints of drama towards the end. If you squint I guess you can say the commoner in an royalty setting is a similarity but a sentence has very very little of any actual class issues, it's more about work life balance. Apothecary barely has anything to do with her family she is very involves in the court life problems.
I feel like we also need to remember shojo animes are from Japan, a place where having inappropriate age range crushes were romanticized and for a long time wasn't that frowned upon and that Japan is also known for its sexism which is also romanticized by many people especially back in the early 2000s but luckily the younger gens are pointing out how weird it is.
dude 90% OF CHILDREN\TEENS HAVE CRUSHES ON SOMEONE OLDER. ITS NOT SOMETHING U CAN CHOOSE its natural. (whats not okay is for the older person to go after you, nothing wrong for a young person to have a little crush)
@@yukichan177 Okay but that doesn't relate to my point whatsoever?
@@peachy9401 its a bit does since i was reffering to " inappropriate age range crushes" its okay for kids to have crushes, its not okay the other way around XD
@@yukichan177 Right but again I don't see how that relates to my comment but yes I agree its common for kids/teens to develop crushes on older people but its just the fact these animes were basically telling kids/teens that inappropriate age gaps are okay in relationships.
@@yukichan177 That's not the point tho. The point is that in Japan it's normalized to the point that there's a word for high school girls "dating" grown men because it was so common. Also lots of loli content would just be called child prrn here and it wouldn't be wrong to do so. Anime world is especially used to predators since mangakas get outted as ones so often so it's very notable that these relationships are so present in media created for kids.
Damn, I never found the beach episode of Ouran to be sexist. Uncomfortable with the Kyouya section, sure, but the whole helplessness I never see as something sexist. I also read it as Haruhi having lived independently for so long, she didn't know when to quit when things are way above her skill level. She didn't know how to be vulnerable and how it's okay to be vulnerable. I guess the fact that she's the lone girl in the host club made the whole situation seem sexist, but I think the host club was just more aware of the situation and, especially with Tamaki, didn't know how to process almost losing one of their friends to drowning. Tamaki and Haruhi weren't mature people, and at that point in the story, they had much to learn about each other. I think it was a necessary conflict to bring us to where the story eventually heads to.
I have been really enjoying Sign of Affection on Crunchyroll! Its such a cute romance and although having a few flaws is a really solid romance. It also is with college aged characters and that has been super refreshing when I have watched too many highschool romances!
Here are quick recommendations:
- Skip and Loafer
- Chihayafuru (Kinda repetitive and will they wont they but good! - I am one season in)
- Yona of dawn (Just had to put it here again because its so good!)
- Apothecary Diaries
Will they wont they:
- Sasaki and Miyano
- Lovely Complex
- Blue Spring Ride
-The Ice Guy and his Cool Female Colleague
You should watch Yamada lvl 1000 the MC is a college undergraduate and the male interest is in highschool. It fortunately doesn't involve highschool setting much and the age gap isn't that bad.
@@SemekiIzuio OoOO I will check it out! I'm always looking for recommendations!
@@SemekiIzuio Im watching it now and I am on episode 6 and loving it! Thank you so much for the recommendations and so far the age gap is pretty easy to ignore! Thanks!
@@lilac24H yes the mc is like in her early 20s and the guy i dont remember if he's 18 or 16. But the gap isn't like a huge 10yr+ and Yamada is mature imo fits with his personality
@@SemekiIzuio hes 18 so it really isn't even big at all! Saying age gap was honestly a stretch lol and so it honestly wasn't bothersome. Also I finished the season and loved it!
I feel like why shows like Chobits were miscategorized as Shojo in the first place was the fact they were written by women. Idk if that’s entirely true but seeing how many editorial departments are male-dominated and minority tokenism (anything that isn’t a white man tokenism, to be clear) being so prominent in our industries, including now. I can totally see this being the case. Also hi, new viewer here I loved the video and the star hairpins and your jokes :D!
Chobits was published as a Seinen manga for young men
@@samaburime Thanks for the clarification 👍^^
70% of all mangaka are women, there is no tokenism here
Watching the reboot fruits baskets made me love and hate it at the same time. I’ve never seen the original but god everyone just forgiving and excusing the abuser again and again made my blood boil! Like she deserved to be in jail and I haven’t even gotten started on the grooming and pedophilic relationships in that show😭 But other than that the main couple are so cute I cried at the end😩❤️
PLEASE give us the full Vampire Knight video!! or more about Shugo Chara because that and Kirarin Revolution were my intro to anime (obvi from the Hello!Project fandom route lool)
love this long-form style! totally down for watching 1hr+ video essays from you!!
amazingg video essay Connie this was really the video for me as a woman in her early 20s who was obsessed with shojo as a kid (and also now) 💕💖💖
The scene after haruhi gets rescued turns out to be 'not as sexist as I remembered' because tamaki actually asks her if she knows martial arts before lecturing her! (hani senpai is small and looks frail but is actually a martial arts pro)
I think the worst part is that it's very victim blaming BUT at the same time you could kinda see their side, viewing haruhi as too naive and careless about her own safety by trying to take those guys on her own when there was a better option. Like yeah, the biggest culprits were the GUYS DOING BAD THINGS, and not the victim ... but the real world can be cruel sometimes.
NOW the kyouya scene is absolutely unaceptable and I HATE that this type of scene always finds a way to get in shoujo manga WTF (there's one like that in ao haru ride too)
The female MC 'friend' pinning her down and basicaly saying 'haha I could r@pe you right now if I wanted lol'!! It's always horible
OMG CONNIE DID YOU JUST BACK AFTER ALL THESE 4 YEARS?!?!? I just want to say thank you for all your work, for your wonderful books that taught me a lot, thank you for your good energy which you pass on. Thank you for being here, dear Connie.❤
They Kyoya scene always reminds of all the Boys Over Flowers iterations. How the main guy basically abuses the FL and then they end up together😭
No bc I legit couldn't keep watching after all that abuse in boys over flowers knowing they were gonna get together in the end. I could not understand how anyone loved it enough that became what it was. Fr I tried to like it, I really did but I couldn't go on forcing myself through it.
To me ouran was at least funny/ entertaining in general- the beach episode was just a one off spot and nowhere near what the poor boys over flowers heroine went through.
I missed your content so much ! I am very excited for this video, shojo was my favorite thing during my teen years haha ❤
i just glossed over all the love interests, i only cared about the pretty girls 😭 shoujo anime was my true gay awakening
Give us the Vampire Knight video queen 😩
Ouran is perhaps the most influential anime that I ever watched and also one of the first five for me. I also saw the message as “people and things in the world are different and won’t always fit to your narrative and you just have to accept that” and this has become my motto in life. I never saw it as “women are weak and must be protected” because Haruhi was a bad bitch who didn’t swoon over any man that protected her.
For ouran high school I didn’t find that sexiest at all, it was dangerous. Kyoya shouldn’t have done that to get his message across.
I don’t really like how people say that a woman is strong person if she can physically defend or overpower men. Just because a woman can’t physically defend themselves that doesn’t make the story sexiest. Amd the thing with MHA midoriya did get yelled at by the hero’s for doing something reckless and dangerous.
There was a whole fight were his classmates fought him to try and convince him to come back to UA idk how she missed that. I totally agree with you.
This video is so pretty! The background, the outfit, the hair - it all looks so cute.
I LOVE Host Club and Chobits but oh GOD they’re PAINFULLLL to watch sometimes
as other people have said, chobits and apothecary diaries are seinen. it's a different demographic. good effort on your video, though!
So what's the difference between them? From my viewing, seinem is just should with more mature subjects coming up (either as jokes or as drama) should occasionally also had those mature jokes but usually more obscure and over the head of the main. Character and thus the audience where as seinen the main character is well aware as the audience is also expected to be.
@@demonheart13Shoujo is manga/anime targeted at young girls and Seinen is manga/anime targeted at adult men
Theres also josei which is for adult women and shonen for young boys
These are the more popular anime's.. This topic sure made me remember Kodomo no Jikan, which about three little girls (3rd grade) out of which one not only has a massive crush on her teacher - she's not only willing but also determined to make her teacher to reciprocate her feelings.
My description is very vague, it was insane 💀
Yes!! We can like shows all while acknowledging the problematic elements!!! This was such a fun video and LOVE the fushigi yugi mention at the end
Ngl Connie becoming an yt essay channel is so good to me I fuckin love it essays and Connie's vids have always been my faves for so so long
I've never watched shojo, but wow this was such an interesting video! Love your video essays! (Also the first anime I've ever seen was Death Note when I was like 14 and while a bit of a different vibe, looking back it kinda served me the similar purpose..since I had a huge crush on L)
so so so happy to see you uploading again...!! this style of video is so fun, i could honestly listen you talk about this type of stuff for hourssss ♡ i would love to hear you talk about Nana, esp since it has gained so much popularity lately...!! like what are your thoughts on the fashion, relationships, the endinggggg??
i saw another comment about how nostalgic this video was and how nice it is to view it with a more critical/adult point of view and i agree!! so much stuff we saw during the "unsupervised tween on the internet" during the 2000s era is so um.. interesting! truly a you had to be there time lol im glad we all survived it and get to revisit it with a new perspective
I recently started re-reading the entirety of CCS and I feel like I've only just now started realizing how many like age gap ships there are (like Sakura's parents are another teacher student one). I feel like growing up these things didn't translate to my undeveloped mind potentially because of how "wholesome" it was usually portrayed. Like Usagi and Mamo completely flew under my radar when I was a kid, even though pretty early on in the manga he like shows her his student I.D and is like I'm older than you. (also the way usagi and friends are drawn do not usually look typical 14)
Also, oh my goodness, I've never seen anyone else ever mention Drama Con! Underrated as heck! I used to see it advertised in the back of TokyoPop mangas and then I think I saw it at a 2nd hand book place and decided to pick it up. It fits the convention vibes to a T (especially since I had a con crush) and is pretty cute. I read it every year before I go to a convention.
there wasnt anything innapropritate in ccs/// a child having a crush on an older person is natural and happens all the time.. (fans ships do not represent the canon in a series)
@@yukichan177 I wasn't talking about Yukito and Sakura. More of towards the line of Rika and Terada Sensei, who's the "older boy" she's dating and gives her a literal engagement ring. There's also a similar teacher student age gap between Sakura's parents. Both relationships are canon to the series.
Definitely one of my favorite mangas from childhood that i went to reread not so long ago that i think still holds up is Kitchen Princess!! i definitely 100% recommended it even has recipes that you can follow it’s so cute and the ending is very shocking like i did not expect
22:58 this is why we love revolutionary girl utena 🙏 ALSO my absolute FAV shoujo anime is definitely kamisama kiss, it's amazing
Some more recommendations!
- Kimi ni Todoke (Reaching You) - It's actually making a comeback this summer!
- Skip Beat - absolute slow burn, so be warned about that
- Kami-sama Hajimemashita (Kamisama Kiss)
- Lovely Complex - one of my personal faves tbh
- Gakuen Alice - similar to Cardcaptor Sakura in some senses
Personally read and watched these as a young teen; rewatched/reread most of these in recent years and I think they still hold up!
i've watched all of these omggg i think i didn't like kimi no todoke though. Gauken Alice was perfect.
I’ve always considered "The Sun, the Sea, and the Host Club!" one of the best episodes of the show, but I’ve been intrigued by how much backlash there is with the depiction of the conflict and it’s resolution. I don’t necessarily think Haruhi was in the wrong for wanting to try and stop some guys from continually sexual harassing other girls, but I do understand why the guys (especially Tamaki) were worried in the first place. I've always interpreted that they were more confused as to why Haruhi didn’t bother rushing to inform the others of the situation when they would prepare to drop everything to help her out. I think that was their problem with the ordeal and Haruhi acknowledges that she is sorry that she made them worried for her. At the same time, Tamaki apologies for his words prior when he fully realizes that Haruhi was used to handling situations on her own and understood that she felt like she shouldn’t have to ask for help, making his assurance that she’s no longer alone or has to deal with problems on her own all the more sweeter. As for the Kyoya scene, since Haruhi was at a point where she understood the root of Tamaki’s frustration, I don’t think going THAT far was necessary for Kyoya to do. I do however find it is interesting in retrospect how much time Haruhi has spent with the club at that point to know that Kyoya’s actions are not only out of character for him and is confident that he wouldn’t follow through with it, but suspects that he did it to emphasize the worries Tamaki had for her in that particular situation.
15:02 YIKES. This is so similar to a real and traumatic experience I had, I can definitely understand why this scene upset a lot of people. Truly flabbergasting that they would put that kind of scene and messaging in a show for young girls.
I understand the general fantasy and what you mean by saying that she was actually “safe”- but in real life having someone make you believe even temporarily that they might assault you and demonstrating how easy it would be for them to do so isn’t being “safe”- it’s a traumatic event. Anyone who would do something like that is NOT someone who could also be safe to be around.
13:16 IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!? Even statistically it is harder for a woman to beat a man in combat. Not all the time but the majority of the time. Plus haruhi was just trying to argue as if these guys don’t have aggressive tendencies??? It was very unwise of her to deal with this alone.
Okay I know this is random but I really love your decor! Especially the Rose Quartz funko and princess Jellyfish manga
I just started re-watching Chobits and if I took shots of water everytime one of them said p**n I'd drown. All I remember was loving Chi's hair and outfits lol.
haha they really gave Chi and her twin sister such cute styles! 😁 It's a shame how the anime fell into obscurity
CLAMP art will always be beautiful.
As a person who's first anime at 13 was Vampire Knight (and second one was Rosario + Vampire which was litterally male gaze all over it) I neeeed that Vampire Knight video!
That was your first? Must have been traumatic
The fact that I watch shugo chara because of your video on anime husbands all those years ago just brings this full circle for me.
I remember reading Pixie Pop and some of Tokyo Mew Mew mangas back in middle school. Now as an adult, they're SO cheesy LOL!
Your most recent videos made me feel so nostalgic! Looove diving into this media again but this time with a more critical view 😅
i’m surprised marmalade boy hasn’t been mentioned in the comments it was absolutely wild
I was 10 when i watched shugo chara and fell in love with Tadase as a character, i loved the contrast between him being a polite prince whose dream was to take over the world. I actually didn't have any strong feeling about ikuto other than the fact my sister rlly liked him. When he started getting more screentime i was sad, when there was more romance with him i dropped it cuz it wasn't my otp
Tbh i didn't ship Amu with anyone, i shipped side characters more ngl. To me i wanted Amu to find confidence over romance (tbh whenever a guy or girl appeared on the show i judged whether they could be worthy the queen)
Came back at 12 when the age gap finally clocked and decided not to think further inorder to not ruin my views of the show cuz it was one of my first anime and i have like crazy attachment and good memories with it. Yeah it was not cool but at least 12yr old me was aware enough to know thats not cool and was able to separate fiction and reality.
ookami shoujo to kuro ouji completely broke me when I was a teen lmao It soured my relationship with shoujo completely even if it was just a bad apple LMAO IT WAS THAT BAD OMG
Some obscure shoujos I REALLY LIKE are:
'kawaii hito' by saitou ken (a rare shoujo where the MC is actually an ADULT MAN who works at a flower shop, it's SUPER SWEET and uncomplicated, they are dating on chapter ONE and it's just PURE FLUFF , SO MUCH FLUFF)
'mizutama honey boy', this one is just insane but I love it cuz it completely breaks gender roles as a completely afeminate boy falls in love with a stoic athletic girl! It has the same vibes as ouran, like, it's world is kinda absurd (a high school student just shows up carrying agiant bear he just defeated like it's nothing) and the story is VERY comedy focused while ALSO having a few serious romantic , heart pounding scenes at same time
Also if you liked this video, you might enjoy the Contrapoints video about Twilight, for more analysis of women's fantasies in fiction & how that can feature problematic/dangerous rhetoric. It also explores whether it's our responsibility to "prevent" women glorifying toxic & abusive behaviour in fiction, to help protect them irl (i don't think so lol)
chobits is a seinen ma'am
she litreally just metioned that in th vidTwT
I define the japanese genres under another form
Shounen: the MC changes the world
Seinen; the world changes the MC
Shoujo: a girl discovers she is special
Josei: being special requires hard work
Its so weird how you define it all based around romance
Loved this nuanced analysis! I never thought about the idea of 'exploring in a safe space'. Mind blown, thank you!
I'm so glad I found this vid on my feed!! I'm living for all the shoujo manga/anime content on here popping up in the last year or so
I went on a big anime binge just after high school for about 3 years, and I could tell almost immediately after starting it that Chobits was aimed towards men because it shows mainly male characters with female persocoms. If it was going to target girls, why not have female characters with male persocoms instead? Or even feature characters with persocoms of the same gender, opposite gender, or a bit of both while focusing on a male with a female persocom or a female with a male persocom? If I was to give Chobits a rewrite or modern adaptation, that's what I would do for some episodes while keeping the main storylines in tact.
UA-cam just recommended this video and just for watching a few seconds I inmediately recognized you!!! Your voice and eyes are unique! You were one of the first youtubers I liked. I'm happy to see you started to make content again 🙌🏼💗
To this day, I am still shocked by the fact that I actually watched Ouran and Chobits back when I was in fourth grade...
Shoujo is keeping me alive rn, I wanna make my own magical girl comic 😭
I need to develop my OC tho cause she doesn’t even have a name yet lol.
Plus I’m busy with life stuff and writing a different comic. It’s also a romance, he finds her corpse on the rode after a car crash 🥰
A couple anime I almost watched but stayed away from was Diabolic Lovers, and Yamadas first time. I also loved that you mentioned Fushigi Yugi. That is one of my top 3 anime.
the rosewood chronicles in the back, SCREAMINGG. i’ve consumed all content of the rwch 2000 times over 🤭
Omg thank you that’s so nice to hear!!!
@@ConnieGlynn30 you are so so welcome queen!!! it is my forever favourite (p.s you were very missed in the youtube community🙏)💗💗
I’m SO ready for this. As soon as I saw the title, I got comfy. I’ve been waiting for this discussion.
UA-cam just introduced you in my feed, and I would say, apart from providing such great commentary that all shojo and josei need, you also have great taste in anime and manga - Shoujo Kakumei Utena and Fushigi Yuugi were also my favourites back in the day!
Ngl even though vampire knight is one of the most problematic and cheesy series...it's still a guilty pleasure of mine (just like every series you talked about lol)
Would love to see a video where you do a deep dive into vampire knight
I loved your videos back in the day and I'm so happy you're back, especially back being yourself 🥹
Sightly related or unrelated, because I get confused with this one but when I was younger I watched a show called toradora, thinking it was a shoujo, when actually it's a shonen???? 😕
It'll be cool seeing more deep dives into anime and getting flashbacks every time you mention something I watched when I was younger😂
AMU IS 11????? I’ve always THOUGHT GIRLIE WAS 14-15. She looked and acted as such….NO WAY she was 11!!! If she was 11-15 it would make more sense with Ikuto who looks 17!
I love getting confirmed by my girl Connie that I've had exactly 0 (zero) unique experiences in my life. Love you queen I need more video essay content from you
Ahhhh fellow dramacon enjoyer!! We’re such a rare breed
I personally Love Vampire Knight, I watched it when I was little because of the Guys lmao, but now as an Adult I still come back to it not only for the guys but the art style
You look so pretty Connie! 💜 I really wanna see that vampire knight video! 😂 it’s also my guilty pleasure comfort anime which I know is terrible 😅
Something to think about with shoujo anime’s and mangas. I think it’s an interesting topic of conversation and something I do always like to tell people (not to defend bad behaviours) is that the age of consent in Japan was 13 and has only recently been changed to 16. With that being said I do think if you look at this issue overall it’s interesting how it’s mostly people from a different demographic who who have either grown up (like us) and seen the issue and thought eew! 😅 or it’s people just watching these now. But I think people do forget that the majority of these anime’s were made by Japanese women whom are from that older generation where they were able to be married at 14. (I know this isn’t the case for all areas but generally) and I think like Connie said from a comment she saw the ideas of the problematic anime scenes we see are/were made in a purely innocent manner of the age of the characters and with the age of consent being different to where these anime’s were made I think does make a big difference because the culture, environment, laws and societal norms do have an impact on the demographic in that area. I think also with places like Japan being one of the places with the lowest crime rates and the amount of effort that’s gone in to make women safe places. I just think the whole mind set and norms are so different everywhere and I think rather than people getting so uppity and kicking off about some older problematic anime’s, to look at educating and protecting young girls rather than thinking too much. I think there needs to be balance. I don’t think my post has made much sense at all but hey, least we can all agree we want more shoujo anime’s!! 😉😂
I think also the 2000’s was just a weird time! 😅 also where the internet and computers were still very new at that time didn’t help I don’t think. And also I think a lot of us watched these shojos at around 13 or something at the age they were intended for but nowadays some people are only just watching them now in their 20’s or something which does change the anime depending on your mind set.. if that makes sense 🤷🏻♀️
I watched Shugo Chara when I was 12 and I was obsessed with Ikuto. I never finished the show back then, but sixteen years later I finally did last month and I was begging for it to stop 😭 The age gap is wild 😭
No idea how you did your hair like that but I’m OBSESSED🤩✨
YAAAS! Literally yas to everything you said! I grew up on the same shojo and I LOVE the thought and care you put into this. I have also never considered the target audience and intended purposes of shojo and that makes SO MUCH sense. Lol Chobits. One of my first manga was Mars, not shojo (I think??) but definitely romance for girls.
Recommendation to add: Bloom into you, which was very different from what I have read so far, though it has been a while since I indulged into shojo
Connie! oh my god. I used to watch your channel religiously in high school. It's so good to see you in my sub box again!!!!
Rika and the teacher in card captor sakura are actually engaged.. Their familys know each other
I liked Ikuto when I was younger cause of the cuddle scene. Like, not many shows or books had the characters sleeping together non sexually, and that always stuck with me tbh.
For shugo chara, there's also the big problem with Utau and Ikuto. I was 12 when I watched it and so confused.
Also I don't think it's necessarily "from the pure POV of a little girl, who is the target audience," I think the intense age gap issue with 2000s anime/manga is a ripple of repressed sexuality and normalizing hebephilia (bc at the time Japan's legal age of consent was 13, just a few years ago it became 16,) because of Japanese conservative sexism (she is a tween, but is old enough to reproduce, there for she is considered a woman in the eyes of a predatory conservative man).
you mentoning the kyoya pinning haruhi scene reminded me of the frog scene from the apothecary diaries. like it's a funny scene but it made me super conflicted on how to think of jinshi and especially the fact that i ship them a lot
Connie you look absolutely stunning. You are gorgeous
Thank you I put little gems in my hair teehee
Wait wait wait wait wait.... About a year ago maybe a little less... I went through all my subscriptions and saw you toward the bottom and thought you were done with youtube and was so so sad and said goodbye. you had only some videos of you going to Japan and your music, I believe. I missed you! I loved watching you! OMG resub resub! AAAAAHHHH! It wasn't your persona so much as just watching you struggle (like a normal person going thru struggles) and change and grow and revamp. It made change seem a little more normal.
I'm glad to be back ^.^
Oh and in Fruits Basket, the 2017 version and I believe the manga, Uotani who was like 17, was getting with a 29 year old ..... still sits weird with me
Honestly haven't watched much anime but did binge Ouran in lockdown and I loved it but it was definitely an ✨experience✨
Best shojo manga I ever read (or at least its my favorite) is Hana Kimi. Yes, it was 90s shojo and has some of the problematic aspects you mentioned. However, it's so much like Ouran in the premise.
And if you don't like Manga, then I'd recommend one of its several Drama adaptations. (Taiwan's was the best)
I spoke too soon!!! It's getting an anime after being done for 20 years????