Parents are not to be trusted about questions like this. Parents will always say they did a great job. But here I am, having childhood trauma from my mother who thought she was the best mother ever.
@@notjustanotherbrickinthewall im still working on some stuff but things are differnet than when i was a kid and i think its better than it used to be. I hope the same can be said for you
I know a lot of people who can't name the medications that they are on, even currently, including some very intelligent people. They will refer to them as "my nausea pills," or "my blood pressure medicine." (Though almost everybody seems to know the exact name of any pain medication that they are on). Dahmer was born in 1960. I don't know if anything was prescribed for Dahmers' mother, but Bendectin was approved as a treatment for morning sickness in 1956. Bendectin was used in the 60's and 70's, but has since been taken off the market, because it had been suspected of causing birth defects. The fact that Jeffrey was hospitalized for surgery at such an early age would seem to have more impact on his extreme fear of abandonment. In the 60's, parents were not allowed to stay in the hospital room with their sick child overnight. They would have been made to leave him, and then come back during visiting hours. That can cause a lot of psychological damage in tiny tots.
You bring up a lot of good points! I'd just like to add that Benedictin was ultimately shown to not be associated with birth defects, though the manufacturer voluntarily withdrew it anyway. So Jeffrey Dahmer probably did not have birth issues due to this drug, if his mother used it It was suspected to cause birth defects because after thalidomide also used for morning sickness caused horrible birth defects, people became understandably worried about other medications like Benedictin. We still use drugs with some of the same ingredients as Benedictin today actually, just under different names
@@kookiekommenter Thank you! I just read that. (I took Bendectin during my 2nd pregnancy). I did an edit, because what HAS been shown to cause psychological damage is separation from the parents for more than a few hours at a time, as babies and toddlers. Dahmer was hospitalized for surgery at that age. 💔
Um my mom was sent to some far away school by herself on a train at 5 years old to stay at that school for almost a year bc her mom was a single mom with too many kids. Yes it has caused abandonment issues and she could get nervous like Dahmer's mom but never a killer.
It was a combination of all that. Mother suffered mental illness prior during and after pregnancy+medicated pregnancy(100%birth defect)+invasive surgery in and around the rectal area at around age 4 (which is coincidentally also the age that signs of autism tend to show up.If not autism,he was definitely on the spectrum of something )+non nurturing upbringing=lots of abandonment issues+father introduces and encourages scientific curiosity in dissecting roadkill+suppressed homosexuality in a non welcoming era/family.=The perfect storm
I haven't heard anyone say Dahmer was on the spectrum. Not even his psychologists diagnosed him with autism, aspergers or ADHD/ADD. I think back in those days, they didn't recognize those disorders just yet. They did diagnose him with schizophrenia among other illnesses. Never any of the spectrums.
@@RozettaVyper yeah not saying he was but it's been debated lately that he could have had something like that. 🤷🏻♀️A psychologist was saying that he doubts he had autism but it's possible and pointed it out as food for thought that his behavior changes correlated with the age those signs tend to show up
I think something is up with the mom, but I will admit. I remember a lot about my first pregnancy, but I could never tell you what medications I was on. I did a quick google when I got home, and that was it. The doctor prescribed it and I took it. I couldn’t tell you the name today if you asked. 🤷🏼♀️
Oh God I'm comment 667, I have to break the number! Oh lord, anyways.. it does make sense that she wouldn't remember what medication she was on just because of how many years ago she was pregnant but maybe. I was pregnant about 11 years ago and I don't really remember the medications that they sent me home with so it does make sense to not remember that but then again maybe maybe not. And I can't believe they cut it off right as she was saying what her complication was the pregnancy was, that was so annoying! LOL damn them
Jeffrey said he killed and kept the body parts because he didn't want them to leave. We know that his father was often away working and that he would walk out after rowing with Jeff's mum. His mum left him to fend for himself too. So for me the sense of abandonment drove his thoughts about having someone to keep in a zombie like state so they wouldn't abandon him
I agree .... I would say that is an accurate observation of the situation . Jeffrey's cannibalism also plays into account with wanting to keep someone and have them. One of the psychiatrist's that interviewed Jeffrey said that Jeffrey was one of the most lonely people he had interviewed . That would also explain the alcoholism that he suffered with even as a teenager .
Abandonment issues don’t have to come just from someone literally leaving. They come from emotional abandonment if the child can’t depend on the parents for emotional needs, and it can be neglect with just not spending enough time in a certain way, even if the parent is literally in the house but doesn’t really interact with the child.
It's a fact that his father was studying and work all the time, so he wasn't around much and his mother has mental issues and depression and she did let him alone to take care of his baby brother
@@sweetluvgurl That is true.... although abandonment issues for most do not lead to murder . It doesn't help but it's not an answer to the root problem.
I’ve always been fascinated by Jeffrey’s mother in particular. There’s a lot bubbling under the surface with her, and she’s spent her whole life concealing it. Thank you.
@@SummeRain783 good point! that’s so true! and the funny thing his mother’s career involved helping others. lionel wanted to profit by writing his book about it. i’m glad that law preventing criminals from making money from murder kicked in
This is frustratingly close to how my parents act. Mom gets offended and defensive while asking me if I'm 'still going to therapy', not out of concern for me, but because it makes her feel like she did something wrong. Otherwise, why does her daughter need to be 'fixed?' And while I understand why as a parent you would want to avoid the feeling of being responsible for something like this, it doesn't help you look any less selfish when that's all you hone in on. :|
my mom does the same thing and it's so frustrating that she paints herself as someone who "cared for her children very deeply" and then to go to my therapy appointments and have my therapist validate my years and years of severe emotional neglect hearing jeffrey's parents is hard for me as well because it is so similar to the disgusting, self absorbed, absent way my mother was when I needed to be raised
You don’t need therapy just to workout. Continue telling me I’m fat when I’m not but it puts the blame on me but I definitely have mental health issues and those are their fault…
I have a response ready for the day my family comes at me with that question, lol 'I'll be seeing a therapist for as long as you'll be seeing your doctors' (emphasis on A therapist because I believe that I'll be seeing multiple different therapists for different reasons as sometimes one is more suitable for a specific issue than the last one).
My mom is the same. I've been hospitalized several times for mental health reasons. Suicidal and wanting to die. And I either got cold shouldered or she got angry at me. Going through all those dark times competley alone has been very hard. Looking back, the emotional neglect started in childhood.
I don’t trust either parent to be honest in their recollections. They both know they look bad, they’ll say whatever they can to try to look better. Of course they “don’t know” what happened to Jeffrey. Of course they don’t have any “answers”. Their truth makes them look bad, they won’t admit to anything.
Absolutely! And the mother could possibly request for her medical records to be released to prove she wasn’t sick / wasn’t taking anything that could have interfere with the pregnancy for example
Okay and you weren't there so you don't know anything compared to his parents which they were and knowing that there son had been publicly deemed a serial killer they font have any reason to cover up anything.
Absolutely correct the parents try to act as cooly as possible and really don't tell the truth at all especially Jeffreys's mother who we did not feature in Jeffreys's life at all taking anti-depressants and barbituates. It was up to Dad Lionel to bring up Jeffrey doing some very strange things with Jeffrey like dissecting animals etc etc etc. Research shows that it a males has a bad mother sometimes it leads to the child becoming homosexual which is what happened to Jeffrey he became gay - this is another key
The father on his interviews looks confident while he tells his deviant behavior on leading his kid Jeff on gathering dead animals, while not feeling sadness or crying. Instead kid Jeff enjoyed clicking the bones. No normal parents would do that to your child
We have to remember that back then it was considered wrong and disrespectful to question your doctor. Especially as a woman, it may have been normal for her to blindly trust a doctor's judgment. We would never dream of doing that today, but back then this was common. She could have amnesia around anything traumatic as well.
" considered wrong and disrespectful to question your doctor. " - I agree with you but I think this is still a thing. you're looked at as arrogant or dumb if you question. I've been to doctors for plenty of things and they often get things wrong. Ive taken so many pills for things I didn't need only to make things worse. if I ever mention it to someone I normally get this roll of the eyes attitude. doctors are human too, they make mistakes. My friend is a doctor and they even say there's a lot of arrogance in the field.
@@maple3165 there's arrogance there because the personality type that it takes to become one often requires it. I just walk out of the office if they are condescending. Something I do, is when making an appointment with a new office and they ask me which provider I prefer, I tell them to give me whoever has the best bedside manner. That's helped tremendously.
I had the exact same thoughts. This was such a different time period and I was actually kind of surprised that he didn't weigh in on that when he mentioned a red flag for her saying she didn't know which medications she was on.
@@ekko6757 Excellent point 👍 My Mom had 3 miscarriages the last one in 1958 & her doctor told her to take thalidomide & that would prevent another miscarriage. She knew way back then that it caused severe birth defects in the children. She didn't want to purposely bring a birth defected child into the world so she adopted me🤗 She also told me the Doctors are working for me & question question question & if you don't agree go to a different doctor. She also told me they know nothing about nutrition or drugs. If you want to know anything about drugs call a pharmacist. I was on a medication while pregnant & the doctor said it's ok. I called the pharmacist & dropped that medication cold turkey. Don't be intimidated people. Drs nowadays want you coming back constantly instead of curing you.
Coming from a family with two abusive parents I have a feeling a lot went on in that household that we will never know. To people who didn’t know my family inside they would’ve thought we were spoiled and life was great. Pool and hot tub in the backyard, new clothes every new school year, a car to drive to and from school. Little did people know that there was years upon years of abuse at the hands of both parents
Dude I saw a Reddit news article about Joyce when she filed for a divorce against Lionel her reason was to keep him from molesting or disturbing her at the time minor children, and she didn’t actually want to leave Jeff in reality she begged him to go with her, but then when he didn’t respond she told him she was secretly trying to leave Andes away to live back with her family, and she made Jeff promise not to tell his father
I wonder about the younger brother. I know he's very private and I think I remember something about him changing his name. I would just find it interesting to get a peek at the flip side of the coin. We know so much about Jeffrey but what about David his theory and experience.
Yeah, thoughts of killing is totally different from raping and committing necrophilia. A lot of people have killing fantasies it’s not that abnormal. It is abnormal to ACT on it.
@@Yikkoofficial I don’t think a lot of people having killing fantasies… that’s still a very rare fantasy amongst humans. It’s more rare that someone acts on it. The dad also had similar fantasies of control like Jeffrey did.
@@SummeRain783 i think she means like people have intrusive thoughts all the time. sometimes people cut me off and i’m like ugh i wna ram my car into that guys car. but i don’t actually do it. so in that sense i guess it’s normal.
@@proprocrastinator5257 wanting to ram your car into someone is not the same as killing. Though I don’t even fantasize about doing things like that. If you’re fantasizing about killing people, especially the way Jeffrey was, it’s time to seek help.
Yes please, do an analysis on their body language in the joint father-son interview!! 👀 As always, love your videos, thanks so much for the engaging content!! 🥰
@@rjmunster9600 interesting video could have enjoyed it more without the sexual and genitalia content. As an autistic person Observe has done wonders for me to understand some basic concepts, unlike those people over identifying “suspicious” behavior. That would be an interesting video to do, how some “bs pseudo science” actually has helped people function better in society 🤣
lionel said in one interview that he had the same urges & thoughts about murdering people & cutting them up. that has nothing to do with his wife’s pregnancy. and any father that would collect roadkill & cut it up with their son as a hobby is a loon
Yep anyone who wants to dismember animals / or into taxidermy is a sicko don’t care what anyone has to say beyond that. It started young and the father enabled his sick behavior.
I would LOVE to see you analyze the interview with Jeffrey and his dad! I’ve seen it, and imo, it seems they had an awkward relationship. They want to behave like father and son, but don’t really seem to know how. From the obligatory side hug when they see each other to the way they sit together. It’s just odd! I know Dahmer became a monster.., but I can’t help but feel badly for young and lonely Jeffrey.
I feel bad bad for the victims and their family I think the majority do. However who was the making of Jeffrey If you can not feel empathy for that young child where do you start. I’m not excusing him, not at all. But obviously he’s so very tormented to the point of disassociation With out recognition of that there will never be intervention The points Kirsten makes are valid
In Jeffrey's interview he said the person to blame is himself not parents, society or pornography. While it's good he took responsibility for his actions I always found it weird how he stated his parents first. It's like he was quick to defend them. Something made him that way. I refuse to believe he was simply born evil.
He wasn't. His parents totally and completely neglected slash fucked him up. The mother may have been better after the divorce but prior? The woman was unhinged, and her oldest son bore the brunt of it as David didn't come along until jeff was nearly 7. With that age gap clearly the older boy will be exposed to more crap AND remember more of it too. She tried to kill herself many times and her child was aware. Think about what that does to a child psychologically- "my mom wants to die and leave me forever". Lionel was so controlling he wrote out an itemized budget for jeff to follow when he was in his MID TO LATE 20S, and while he showed more love towards jeff than the mother did he also made dissecting roadkill their bonding time. I mean, wtf. These parents are insane. I don't want to hear "but the other son is normal" - jeff was the worst and extreme, this other boy changed his name and went anonymous so we don't know how normal he is or not if you think about it.
I don't remember the names of the medications I was on a year ago, I would be more suspicious if she remembered what she was prescribed 30 years ago than if she didn't. Those medical names can be complicated and at the time she wouldn't have had any reason to memorize them. I find it very gross that they spend so much energy trying to blame this on the pregnancy and thereby on her. To me it's an antiquated attack and it's not even worth entertaining.
Mmm, nah, I reckon you'd know what you were on when you were pregnant. You don't necessarily need to know the generic name but you'd remember if it was valium, morphine, or even just the class of drugs. I don't think it was the cause of Jeffrey's actions but I don't believe you wouldn't know your medications that you were on for years, no matter how long ago it was, unless you have dementia or you're really really old. Plus she contradicted herself, in the very sentence before she said she remembers everything from her first pregnancy but not the meds. Jeffrey would have been born in withdrawal, believe me, she'd remember that! If you've seen a baby born after a mother has been on opiates or benzos/barbiturates you'd know what I mean and just because they're prescribed makes no difference. It's exactly the same as mothers who are on methadone.
@@melodyvalentine8779 respectfully disagree. She was pregnant decades ago, back when doctors were treated like gods, respected, trusted and didn't necessarily tell their patients specifically what they were being given, especially if it was injected or given in the hospital. Additionally, it wasn't as well known or understood the harms that medication can cause to a developing fetus or even the impact of when in the pregnancy it was given.
@@melodyvalentine8779 my kid is only 13 and I don’t remember anything that I took while I was pregnant. Except pre-Natals. Very few people would remember everything they were on or took a year ago, let alone decades. You’d ask if it was okay while pregnant and that’s it. Was on a bunch of stuff after too and don’t remember those either. Ask about being safe for breastfeeding and that’s it. I don’t even know what I take now for that matter. I’m not looking at the names. I know what they are generally for, but that’s it lol.
Really like I can't recall the exact name but I have a general idea of what probably 95% of meds I take have been. Not the ones I took as a kid of course but the rest
@@danieldebono7116 when you're raised in abuse and neglect you often don't know what neglect and abuse is. It's just normal to you. He had no social contacts either that I'm aware of, so no opportunity to gain perspective into what healthy family looks like. I always felt like he just didn't want to publicly shed light on his parents issues. They're really the only people he has ever had. Only people who loved him.
I'm curious: does the method of verbal analysis change when there's a known diagnosis of mental illness? Particularly personality and emotional disorders.
It might. These things can literally change how the brian is formed. Like i have adhd so fidgeting that might look suspicious in non-adhd is completely normal for me and doesnt typically have anything to do with nerves. I just dont like sitting still
@@Celeste-jh2lj and if there’s records of you having ADHD that is played into account of your baseline, so it’s anything that stays away from the fidgeting is where it becomes suspicious.
@@basicbrittani I have severe C-PTSD, and whenever I worry what I’m going to say will upset someone, I begin to stutter, fidget and break eye contact. It’s a reaction from not knowing how to tell my abusive parents things I knew I’d get “in trouble” for. I’m sure it would trick a polygraph too, because my heart rate picks up and I sweat. It’s a fear response that looks like a lie
I think she had a hard pregnancy, took the medicine she was told to and is now being used by her ex husband as a scapegoat so she's down playing her "roll in this". I don't blame her, if she did what she was told to do by doctors then she did nothing wrong. I don't think drugs could be the only reason he turned out this way. So many kids have hard childhoods, parents who are prescribed drugs that could be damaging or who drink and do illegal drugs etc but they don't do the things he did.
Dahmer did not get much affection or physical touch from his mother or attention from his father in childhood. could easily account for his obsession with abandonment.
As someone who works in a pharmacy and whose mother is a pharmacist so many people take medications and have no idea what they're called, what they do, what condition or illness they're for, etc. Many people just get it from the doctor and take it. Even if there was a severe reaction from the medication, some people don't care enough to remember. I will say the later part isn't as common though, the majority of people remember negative side effects of drugs they take
Love your videos. I'd like to see a video of 1 person telling 2 stories 1 lying and 1 telling the truth and seeing the differences on the same face to understand more how the same face would look with a lie and a truth.
it is pretty obvious she deeply feels she didn't handle her pregnancy or parenting responsibly and trying to defend it here. She even tried to kill herself and then just was willing to accept it in the end by doing good deeds. The mother really gives me bad vibes in general. Both parents are desperately trying to save face. That's what it is
Can I say different That mum is a victim of Psychological abuse When she got away she was able to get herself sorted and she did well She would always have a degree of guilt Maybe even survivors guilt She came from an era when little was understood so you kept it under lock and key - very thing is perfect in my world Yet she left and divorced at a time that was very unacceptable That wasn’t easy either and she’d have guilt for that to She was taken to the doctor given drugs for things she doesn’t remember and then public blamed and exposed by that man. In other interviews he says it was nobody’s fault Jeffery just got his thought life tangled except for her she took drugs and had convulsions like episode in the pregnancy. If she’s Denying that then he’s telling the doctor to get her medication it’s abuse So I ask who wouldn’t go into self protection mode. Not only will she be lying to the world but her self to and I can not condemn her for that.
I take meds and I am always blown away when I ask a friend what their med is and they have to look. I know plenty of medications that used to be safe are no longer considered safe but the lack of knowing the med, especially back when people didn't really question doctors isn't shocking to me. Though, she should've been able to say what it was for treating at least to an extent. She would've known if she was getting lock jaw or muscle spasms or if they were for insomnia etc. Dahmers actual actions and his words suggest to me that he lacked a healthy attachment with his parents for whatever reason. Perhaps their fault, perhaps the fault of how people raised babies at that time (cry it out etc), or perhaps just his perception.
They will never say the truth, of course they will say he lived in a happy family, but once the doors closed we never know what happened behind it, I see them both liars, they trying to put the blame on each other, and it shows how they didn’t care about their son, I really feel bad for young and abandoned Jeff he just want they to give him attention and care when he needed it
I would love for you to watch the Behavioral Panel where they go over the interview with JD, where his father was present. To me it seemed their focus kept drifting towards the dad and how JD reacted in response to his father. I have this nagging feeling that there is something there that has not come to the surface.
I don't think it was the meds his mother was on. I think it was abandonment issues and his dad introducing him to death and dead animal bodies at such a young age. He became fascinated by it all and progressed to humans.
His dad didn't introduce him to that.. He didn't even know about that. Listen to Dahmers interview and not that Netflix bullshit.. Everyone who watched that series is now commenting on everything
The interviews with Roy Ratcliff, the pastor who mentored, and baptized, Dahmer in prison, are very interesting. He faced massive backlash, and maintained that Dahmer was genuinely converted. I’d be curious to see if he was sincere.
Didn’t Janes Dobson also get involved I seem to remember an interview he did to It was a long time ago though and my memory maybe out. I’m sure he did one with the dad to and some of the things dad said where wild
Yeah I definitely agree that they try to shift the blame one another. I feel that the husband really tries to make the wife the reason for this. But there are so many reasons why Jeffrey was like how he was. Unstable home/parents, being bullied, sexuality and not being able to express that because it wasn't okay at the time, also I do think that the dad doesn't want to except the fact he introduced him to the world of killed animals and putting them in acid.. It's literally what he did with humans?
Meds could have played a part in it. Back then, meds were starting to be studied when it came to pregnant women using them. Half the things they were allowed to be on back then can not be used now for that reason. Then for her to say she didn't have seizures... There is a chance she did and can't remember them. Depending on how bad it is, some people black out from them and do not know they had one until someone who seen it could tell them. There are many factors that could have played a part into who Jeffrey became.
There’s a difference between not remembering the individual seizures and not knowing you have a disorder. I used to have fainting spells so obviously I was unconscious during the actual event, but I was still aware that I would regularly wake up on the floor surrounded by concerned people
Really can't blame the parents for being cagy. They've probably been coached to not lay the blame on themselves. A parent could drive themselves mad blaming themselves for the behaviour of their kids, even if they're trying their best
There are many children who feel alone, and isolate, during tense times, such as parental conflict/divorce. Some may not grow up to be completely 'normal', but there's no evidence or research claiming they might be a 'Dahmer-type.' Dahmer is in a class all his own.
He was unfortunately in a class of his own I call it the class of his dads social experiment He’s dad said it was justifiable because he was a scientist But there he was on his own.
On the part of her denying ever having seizures. It is completely possible to have had seizures and not remember it or the hours before and after. My ex-fiancé has epilepsy, he could lose days at a time when he was having an episode.
Hi there! I'm also epileptic and can confirm. I don't remember any of my blank-out, full-convulsion seizures. To the point where I would literally not know they happened unless somebody were to tell me I had one. I would wake up on the floor and not even have the mental capacity to question why I might be on the floor, and by the time I'm feeling more alert I'll have forgotten I was even on the floor in the first place. I'm aware others do experience rememberung the seizure, but for her to straight-up deny ANY possibility of simply not remembering it is just not how seizures work, thank you very much.
@@tomyevans4582 I hate to hear that. Epilepsy isn’t a fun thing to live with from an outside perspective, so I can just imagine how much it would suck to be the one living with it. Maybe she doesn’t want her son’s deeds to fall back on her. But if my kid turned out to be a serial killer, I would prefer it be linked to something that doctors gave me than how he grew up. One could “sorta” be blamed on the doctors, the other is just being a crap parent.
@@Startedliving2015 100000% agree with you there. I'd also much rather be like "damn my parenting might have played a role, but the way I raised him hit him much worse potentially because of the medication I was put on during pregnancy." I could at least, as you said, "sorta" blame doctors, and maybe still humanize my son in a way. Like damn maybe it wasn't all him, there were extenuating circumstances that led him here. Y'know? Either way I hope you and your fiance are well!!
@@tomyevans4582 exactly. I wouldn’t want it to be even slightly plausible for something like that to be my fault. And he is good. He still has his episodes, but he doesn’t let it keep him down for long. We aren’t together anymore, but he upgraded from my fiancé to my children’s uncle who loves to spoil them. So it all worked out for us in the end.
@@tomyevans4582 hopefully you aren’t doing too horrible with the new seasons. Not sure about for you, but the heat always made my ex feel so much worse.
I honestly feel like if Dhamer didn't have to hide the fact that he was gay he wouldn't have done what he did. He might've had some messed up kinks but I honestly feel like he would've been a different person. I'm in no way defending what he did but I'd be super curious to see that alternate timeline.
@@Rhiannon.Moonchild Unfortunately that's the world he grew up in. I'm not gay myself but I can only imagine that it must be horrible to feel like you have to hide who you truly are. Hell I feel like an outcast simply because I'm an introvert so I only imagine it would be like that but worse.
I'm a transgender and bisexual teenager from a very trans/homophobic country and I can confirm that hiding your identity from your surroundings is extremely difficult . Hopefully my sister is accepting , and in the internet I found my people and got a lot of support , however when I have never told my friends about it , I know that if I do I will get heavily bullied . Imagine how a gay (or trans) kid might feel at that time , knowing that everyone around them doesn't accept who they are , it must've felt very draining . I think it did affect him a lot . Don't get me wrong I don't support anything he has done , but as an lgbtq+ kid I sympathize with his struggles as a gay person living in that time
She says her pregnancy was normal and no issues - then what were the medications for? Why was she on any medication at all? Like obviously hiding her medical history
I thought exactly the same, if you were perfectly healthy and/or not having any health problems during pregnancy, you would not be taking any medications at all.
To be fair, she said the pregnancy was normal and without issue. She didn't say that she wasn't having difficulty within herself. With how toxic their family were I'd highly doubt that wasn't affecting her. My guess is the prescription drugs were revolving around depression at the very least, given the suicide attempt. And she doesn't have to air out her history to the world, especially with people judging her
@Logan: Thank you for the analysis! I really like and appreciate your work! Could you do a video analysing the German soccer player Jerome Boateng? He seems to be very manipulative and dangerous to some extent so it would be exciting to hear your take on that.
he is not a monster. his parents completely f* him up. Imagine being so incredibly lonely that the only way you can get human intimacy or connection is by objectifying people and killing them to not ever be able to leave you. As incredibly sad and violent this is for the families i also do have compassion for Jef. He was a gifted young man whose parents abused him really bad.
i’ve been interested in the case for a few years and i can assure you, when you read about the inaccuracies and missed out details, that pity will disappear. it wasn’t about romance or intimacy, he was a sadistic killer there’s someone on tiktok who studied forensics in university and they had pat kennedy who was the lead investigator of the case come in and do a lecture where they were shown all of the evidence that isn’t public including all of the polaroids (there were close to a thousand) and case documents. she said that the case is so much worse than what information is out there…
You wouldn’t be saying he is not a monster if he was torturing you. And if you argue he is a product of his parents treatment of him then surely you have to argue they were a product of how they were treater and so on and so on
@@MariaDonkova yeah I would be interested in seeing the letter if you can post it. I understand your feelings of pity, after all, how do any of us know whether if we experienced exactly the same lives as serial killers we also wouldn’t commit the same atrocities? But there are times we have to step outside of ourselves and that is what serial killers stop doing. Their own lives become more important than anyone else’s. Of course this isn’t limited to serial killers and is in fact a universal human fault
@@christophervaughan2637 Oh okay here’s the letter that I can translate since the screenshot is in cursive and I don’t know if I can’t post photos on here but here it is, Dear Dad & Shari, Thanks for coming up to see me. Shari I hope that you’re feeling much better by the time this letter arrives. You will probably receive this letter after I phone you on Aug. 23rd. Bob Mozenter called me early this week and told me you are very concerned about my talk with the FBI. I also got your letter dad thanks. I do not think that you should worry about my talk with them. I gave Bob Mozenter the address and phone # of the Milwaukee FBI agent. This agent met with me about 2 weeks ago and the only topic of discussion was as follows: 1. What could the police have done differently to stop me sooner. 2. What could my probation agent done differently. 3. Why did I decide to confess to all the crimes. That’s all we talked about. I told them nothing that would interfere with the book, nothing about our family life. In fact most of the time was spent talking about the creation science books that I’m reading. The second visit was short. The Florida detective wanted to know, 1. If I was involved in the Adam Walsh case. 2. Why I went to Florida. 3. How long was I in FL. 4. What was my job in FL. 5. Where did I live in Miami 6. Did I own a car or van there. 7. Who did I spend time with in FL. Again, I said Nothing about our family - past, present - or future! I gave them No new information on Anything! Their questions dealt only with my activities in FL and how the police could have handled the encounters with me differently. I promise I will not talk with them again. I did not mean to worry you, I’m sorry. Love, Jeff”
I imagine it’s possible for his mother to have had a physically “normal” pregnancy while also experiencing some mental health issues. If that were the case, then it’s not a stretch to guess that there might be some reluctance or shame surrounding the admission of those issues. Just a guess.
You have to understand that we have a lot of editing in these interviews.People don’t know that often they will cut answers short as they want a concise summary but they also are looking for high ratings.
I could totally be wrong here. But I honestly feel like Lionel at least does take some responsibility in how Jeff turned out, I think maybe even deep down he blames himself more than he blames Jeff but he’s trying to find some scientific proof or something that he can use to alleviate some of that self blame. Or maybe he did blame himself fully until one day he was like like “no she’s to blame” or “we are both to blame” but the crimes are so heinous he’s grasping at straws trying to science his way to a less guilty conscience. Where as I think “momma Dahmer” is absolutely delusional lying to herself so she doesn’t have to take an ounce of responsibility I think she’s told herself soo many lies that deep down she truly believes not a speck of him is her fault. I think Lionel is the better parent here but neither were necessarily good parents.
I definitely believe Jeff was abused as a child. On Donahue & Geraldo a gay lover of Jeff said that Jeff told him he was sexually abused by his father. I know he was probably born a psychopath but I believe his childhood had a lot to do with it as well. Unfortunately Jeff protected his parents and never admitted what really happened in his childhood so we’ll never know the truth. He was willing to go into gruesome detail about his murders but not his childhood.
It could have been avoided if his parents REALLY checked and cared for him especially during his puberty to late teenage years, but what they did is they left him alone in their home during high school, and ended up having trauma with abandonment.
Please do Courtney Love. She has been accused of killing kurt cobain. The documentary Soaked In Bleach gives the best depiction of the events leading up to Kurt's death. Courtney's father hank Harrison and courtney love both claim they are sociopaths. Courtney is linked to the deaths of kristen pfaff, el duce, nikolas hartshorne, detective Antonio Terry and possibly mia zapata. She was also accused of trying to kill her x son in law Isaiah Silva. She tried to kill her first husband James Moreland and she threatened to kill brianne o connor ....Kurt's little half sister in 1994
@@Noname-vm9ue poor courtney murdered her way into an estate worth more than Elvis's and has a criminal record 50 miles long and will not stop using thugs to terrorize and kill. Poor courtney got breast implants with weeks of Kurt's death to augment her publicity stunts, and then she was photographed in bed with evan dando and on Courtney's back was a teddy bear containing Kurt's ashes. shes a sick twisted monster who was disinherited by her entire family and even her only child. They know how dangerous and psychopathic she is
While knowing full well it would be unethical as heck, I still wish that Joyce's doctor had come forward with what she was on. Prenatal vitamins weren't a thing yet so that's easy to rule out.
I get the impression she was doped out of her head. You know in that era it could have been the Hallucinogenic type drugs to. I actually fully believe her when she says she didn’t have those Episodes She denied them so she must’ve been medicated on his description and history The doctors couldn’t find anything medical either He says they where associated with mental health issues which is very unusual And very Stigmatising at that time in history It’s a cheap shot at her and Is that suspicious heck yer.
As someone who had a mother who was mentally abusive and neglective and a drug addict and abusive father, I've had nothing but deep sadness as a toddler to now, it's very VERY draining
Oprah interviewed his dad (I think it was her) in the 90’s and he said Jeffrey had fallen off a swing set and had a very bad concussion when he was a young child and that was the reason he thinks he could have become a psychopath. Psychopathy can be caused by head trauma. I wonder why he forgot this instance? Makes me think Lionel lied to Oprah to make up some excuse he couldn’t be blamed for
Unfortunately his parents didn't even have enough decency not to point fingers at each other in national tv interviews! they were both selfish and immature and of course no child would have a happy time around them. They neglected Jeffrey and that's on them! Second thing that I know was an honest mistake but still was a huge one that Lionel made was getting Jeffrey into dissecting dead animals which started as his interest and later turned into his obsession and I strongly believe that obsessions will get worse and weirder if given the conditions needed like loneliness that is actually one of the biggest factors in most psychological problems. So to wrap things up my personal opinion is that although we can't say Jeffery Dahmer's homicides are on his parents but we can say they built the root or at least made it stronger by the way they treated him but you know these cases are more complicated than that and we should consider all the possible components such as genetics and etc.
An honest mistake! No the man is sick and created a deeply dysfunctional family Mom did well when she got out of it Until she had to interact with him again Then it all becomes about self protection all over again Some in fact many abused people tell the world everything was/is wonderful I’m sure she has guilt for a lot of things including survivors guilt.
@@louisejeffries7155 I don't think he created the dysfunctional family all by himself, Joyce was at fault too. If you've watched documentaries or even the series you know what I mean. They both had problems and they both did leave Jeffrey on his own when he was only 17 or 18! That's not a thing to expect from a good mother and ofc a good father. Also I do believe the mistake I've mentioned in my first comment is an honest one; with Lionel being a chemist and scientist, ofc he wanted his child to be one too and many kids like dissecting animals so when he saw that he's interested he saw an opportunity to lead his son to the path of science. it wasn't like he wanted to raise a sk by purpose! so yeah when it's not done deliberately it is just an honest mistake. Btw many people have troubled married lives and then get divorced at the end and their kids go through so much just as much as Jeffery and most of them aren't even criminals, many people like dissecting dead animals and as above they're mostly not criminals; so no matter what the conditions are, at last it all depends on what decision the person makes on their OWN.
@@Masoumeh_Hoseini thank for the reply I don’t think Lionel was deliberate in what he did He not a well man But he is a very calculated man Jeffrey was left by Mom true and even when she was there it sounds like she was doped out of head If you really dig into what was happening there it becomes very suspicious For Joyce to separate in that era was no easy thing. No social support and frowned on by society Most women stayed in Abusive relationships and not always for the children While that Might be an altruistic reason mostly it was because there was no other options. They smiled put their lippy on and presented to the world like everything is wonderful perfect. The problems must have been extreme for her to leave right? Fortunately her problems started to resolve once she left. I’m sure she’ll probably have survivors guilt there. Left Jeffrey on his own at 17 - 18 huge numbers of kids had left home by that age then. Lots of girls where married by 18 It was in no way unusual. There is no issues around taxidermy It’s the sexual component that has issues. It is an illness called piquerism look it up. Lionel with out using the term later admitted to this He also talks about taking Jeffrey and watching him have injections with a small but nasty smile on his face as he says this There is the strong possibility of Munchhausen’s by proxy with both Joyce and Jeffrey I was t having a go at you personally when I questioned the ‘honest mistake’ I was questioning the statement I shouldn’t have I don’t need to so I do apologise for that. I could go on Believe me I have watched more than a doc and some interviews on Jeffrey and his family And have come to the conclusions I have. I won’t give you the full brief of my summary It’s nearly a flipping thesis. But there is a lot more to that man than you’ll ever pick up in an hour long doc. If you want to study the twisted mind that one is a very interesting place to start.
@@louisejeffries7155 I get what you say and I totally agree with you; divorce is a huge issue specially back then and with low support system. It needs courage to get out of a toxic marriage with all these conditions but at last she saved herself and made peace with it. That's power.
loved this comparison.. I definitely sense there's alot of blame shifting/shrugging responsibility.. and while they may not have been horrible I think there's still alot they aren't sharing that contributed to what he became that they have some responsibility for..
I find this very interesting. I’m not watching the Netflix series because I don’t want to relive the crimes, but your analysis is good. Please do more on this.
Would you ever consider doing a video on the Darrell Brooks trial? I've been watching the UA-cam clips of the trial non-stop and I'd love to see your take on it.
You have to watch the ENTIRE interview Joyce did with Stone Phillips. The clips in this are just a fraction of the 20 minute interview they aired on tv. The camera is centered so close up to her face because her lawyer is sitting right there next to her, ready to jump in and cut either Stone or Joyce off when she doesn't like what is being/might be said. I don't buy Lionel's version of events 100% but I really, really don't believe ANYTHING that comes out of Joyce's mouth. Let us not forget that a high school friend of Jeffrey Dahmer wrote a book as well, the comic book My Friend Dahmer, in which he also describes how neglected and cast aside Jeff was by his mother. She was too wrapped up in whatever frivolous activity/friendships she was interested in to pay any attention to her own son. He would get drunk at school regularly and she didn't know anything??? Did she ever talk to him? Lionel worked but she was home and has no excuse why she knew absolutely nothing about her own kid for years. They both neglected him but Joyce wants to act like she was some kind of decent mother which really doesn't seem to be true at all. Just because the kid was fed and housed doesn't mean she was a great mother, to me it seems like she treated Jeff as more of a pet than a child.
Just my totally unprofessional opinion. Jeff was born with tendency’s to the macabre based on what his father’s told us about his own morbid thoughts. That’s no coincidence. Then as a small child, he witnesses horrific fights between his parents. Then his dad introduces him to dead animals and allows him to explore, dissect and spend all kinds of time alone with said animals. His mother flat out abandons him, his father doesn’t even know she left. By this time, he’s formed severe abandonment issues. He doesn’t really have friends. And the ones he does speak to in school merely use his weirdness for laughs. He doesn’t want to be homosexual but is, something else he struggles with. He has kept all of his feelings, fears & emotions bottled up inside until his sick fantasies are no longer satisfying so he has to go a step further. Once he realizes this is the one thing in his life he can control and he can stop people from leaving him, he goes on to commit some of the most heinous crimes ever known. He knows it’s wrong, he knows it’s disgusting to others but he can’t stop himself. We’ll never know if things may have turned out differently had he been raised in a loving home, with parents who respected each other, showed love instead of hate and had deeper talks with Jeff to really get to know him instead of just thinking well my son is weird & off and he’s always been like this. He may have killed anyway or maybe he’d had become a medical examiner since he had so much interest with what is on the inside of us. He had no self worth and a lot of anger. The worst part is, had the cops just looked in those garbage bags that night, there only would have been one victim and one was already too many. His mother is a total piece of sh*t. Her lying just comes with the territory.
I belive something in being in a hospital as a kid triggered some kind of weakness he was born with. Add to that emotionaly distant parents and not getting the therapy he needed (the school alerted the parents), only made him worse.
Well, in other video's the father also blames himself. I've not really seen him blame his ex-wife. He just says that things could have gone wrong during the pregnancy. They both shouldn't have argued and screamed at eachother so often. Jeff said that it really made him depressed and angry. Which is not helpful for his psyche. They should have paid more attention to him... talked to him. How can he drink so much alcohol from 16 years old without his parents noticing it? I mean, he was very sneaky and drank it all at school.. but still... an observant parent would have known eventually, right?
1) Dahmer’s choices were his and his alone, regardless of his family dynamics 2) what I get from the parents is the mom is desperate to believe she was a good mom and didn’t do anything wrong. That whatever cause Dahmer’s behavior was outside of her and the family. The father feels the need to know why this happened and to have an answer, so he keeps positing theories, even though he’d rather not be responsible either (it was the medications, maybe I was too detached as a father, etc).
i'm not sure if his dad really wants to know why it happened, I've seen that his mother wanted Jeffrey's brain to be examined after his death but his father refused which doesn't really make sense in that case.
Heard the father has a book and has spoken in interviews that are on UA-cam saying he's had similar fantasies and trouble with control. So that's definitely interesting to hear and will be looking into that myself
@@vanessak6590 Yes it does make sense. If they examined his brain, and found no abnormalities, then it doesn't explain anything. It just makes everyone more upset as to why they dont have any definitive answers.
@@bailey7792 it doesn't really make sense to me, because if there were no abnormalities then they'd know the same as they do now, nothing really would change because they'd be still wondering what could have been the reason for Jeffrey's doings. He had an option to find some answers or at least clues and he wasted that chance.
Will you ever analyze the Stone Philips interview with Jeffrey and Lionel? I think that’s the most interesting one. I love your analysis so I thought it could be interesting to discover more about that one interview in particular
I came from divorced parents. Dad left around age 11, the way they are blame throwing it shows what he was stuck in the middle of. Meanwhile thier being selfish n his well being got lost in the mix. I ended up going from a A B honor roll student in band, cheered, was a ballerina for 9 years, to not caring if i lived or died. Put myself in dangerous situations and ended up on prescribed drugs opiates and benzos. Was overdosing on methadone and xanax every month when I got my Xanax script. Didn’t stop until I got real help n healed my wounds of what they did, what happened after. Was r**ped many times before even being 16 years old. Got pregnant n had a abortion at 13. That neglect n selfishness messes u up. N when u feel worthless u don’t care about yourself. Put on top of all that he was gay n that wasn’t ok in his world. Then honestly I think there are signs of being on the spectrum possibly because of the social part. Feeling like the people had to be knocked out for him to touch them n be in control. Not saying with on the spectrum would or do do what he did. I am high functioning autistic n I had a hard time relating to people only had two actual relationships one being my husband and intimacy was very difficult for me. I have other reasons for that thinking too but there’s the just of what I see.
Jeffrey's parents were said to be at each other's necks. Always deflecting blame onto each other. They were toxic before Jeffrey was born. I wouldn't trust what either parent says. Jeffrey said they always argued, his father was a workaholic and Jeffrey had to deal with Joyce's psychosis and borderline & narcissistic outbursts. The fault is in both parents.
I don’t believe the mom at all. I believe the father, there were problems while she was pregnant and she was medicated. Did any of the medications effect the way Jeffrey grew in the womb? I’ve no idea, of course. But I remember every medication I’ve been prescribed, and being chronically ill for 16+ years that’s a ton of medication ( I was just looking through my medical notebook and I remember for what reason and how long I took each one and why it was prescribed) And when I was pregnant with my son I was hyper vigilant of what I took. There’s no way she doesn’t know if she took morphine while pregnant.
Lionel was so quick to put his story out there, and try to blame everything on her... me thinks he doth protest too much? He was trying to shift more of the blame onto Joyce because I think he really messed Jeff up.... no one knows for sure if Jeff was @bused, but of course Jeff wouldn't tell the media what his dad did if he was literally the last person that he had when his crimes came to light. Also, a lot of his crimes involved his victims being defenseless...... like he was when he was younger? A way to be in control after something uncontrollable happened to him? Not to mention that his father once said that a neighbor @bused Jeff, but then later retracted his statement?? Probably because people would start wondering who this neighbor was....All just speculation though. Also, absolutely not excusing his crimes either, just interesting to know the psychology about what could have led to this, and if it could have been prevented.
Lionel Dahmer seems to be a good man to me. Joyce FLint seems to be a lunatic. I could be wrong, but this is how they strike me. Lionel to me, when he was younger, was a lot more interested in himself and his work than Jeffrey. But in fact, you'll at least 9 out of every 10 men are exactly the same way. Joyce to me had something seriously wrong with her. True, she was taking medications her Doctors recommended but you'd still think, at some point, she would have been concerned about the fetus she was carrying. The two of them together was combustible. Two people much better off without each other. Which brings us to Jeff. I feel very confident the actions of his parents had a big influence on him. However, I don't blame his Dad for the roadkill - he was just fostering an interest Jeff had. I think the abundance of medication the Mother was taking had to have some affect on Jeff. Jeff being born gay didn't help either cuz he had to suppress this part of himself (due to attitudes in the 1970s) - so he closed himself off. You put it all together and you come up with one seriously sick individual, which is exactly what Jeffrey Dahmer was. Funny though, Jeff's brother, by all accounts, ended up totally normal. So, I suppose you'd have to add in Jeff simply being born with multiple deficiencies as well.
Jeffrey Dahmers mother couldn't connect with him when he was baby. Because her own mental health problems she couldn't hold him near. She never hugged him or held him in her arms. Jeffrey suffered in so many ways already as a little child. He wasn't born a psychopath .
8:20 she didn't say she doesn't REMEMBER the medications she said she didn't KNOW, women at that time were not in charge of their own bodies and very often doctors only talked to the husbands so it is very plausible that no one even bothered to explain what medications she is getting
Agreed absolutely agree And it’s also highly likely the doctor only ever heard a described episodes from Lionel She denies them so will not be describing them The history and examination didn’t reveal anything plausible medically. He explains them associated to mental health issues which is bazaar and the mental health resolved after the separation Even more bazaar. She went on to do well. Jeffrey who stayed under his extreme control becomes a serial killer stating he did it so he could have something of his own. Geez that not only horrific it’s extreme m. Take the head in the box episode - who takes his 20 + years old sons private space (retrospectively we know there was a decapitated head but that’s retrospective) and goes to get tools to open the box. Then makes the executive decision wether to open the box or not. Jeffrey box but no way Jeffreys decision in his late 20’s I believe there was Psychological abuse there for both Jeffrey and his mum. Those episodes where a manifestation.
They didn't say there was no possibility that the meds had damaged JD, just that there was no way to establish a link between the meds given when he was in utero and the crimes he committed as an adult. Those are two very different statements and it's important to recognise the distinction. Pharmaceutical regulation wasn't as strict back then, and not as much was known about how certain drugs could affect the foetus. Dont forget the thalidomide scandal happened not all that long before Joyce was pregnant, and the outcomes there, although very different, were just as tragic and shocking. Heartbreaking all round.
I always got gaslighting vibes from the dad towards the mom. I think the parents will try to protect themselves in a situation like this. I think neglect must have been occurring if Jeff was drinking so much in his high school years, surely the parents would notice that otherwise. 🙄
He was a psychopath. It's no one's fault. Everyone wants to blame parents. There are plenty of children that had horrible homes and don't become murderous cannibals.
I trust lionel moreso. Jeffreys mother was a borderline and like narcissism npd they rewrite history to suit their own narrative. Shes defensive and only concerned with being blamed.
I'll almost certainly say narcissistic parents. Trying to hide there lack of proper attention and time it takes to socialize a person, it he would be socialized.
I have a video idea for you and Piper! Maybe..? SISTER WIVES!! Christine left Kody and the reactions of the other 3 would be interesting, along with maybe guessing who may possibly be more likely to leave next. Meri is being constantly ignored, janelle is being criticized and forced to pick between her husband and her children, and Robyn says she doesn’t like how kody and her are basically in a monogamous marriage and that she didn’t make the covid rules but some think that’s a lie. So I’d be very curious for y’all to look into that. Idk how I’d give links bc it’s HULU. ALSO analyzing the Sims announcement about their project Rene could be very interesting to see if the sims gurus are truly thinking about the new sims idea.
Honestly, this is so sad. These two are obviously hurting. The trauma they’ve endured. No one wants to find out that their kid, their baby, has committed heinous, unspeakable crimes and taken the lives of another parents babies and no one wants to be at fault and I completely understand their need to defend themselves from each other and from the media. It’s obvious that this is something that has harboured some deep resentment between the two and instead of being able to come together to heal, they just keep tearing open the wound. Everyone wants answers that no one has and people think “well it must be the parents” but sometimes people are just bad. He made his own choices and we will never know why and everyone needs to stop pointing fingers at anyone EXCEPT Jeff. The parents are victims, obviously not to the extent or the deceased and their families, but in their own way. They’ve lost a son as well, their normal way of life and they’ve been disillusioned. I’ve been on the other end of the curtain being lifted when someone you love vomits a crime and it’s traumatic. Your reality is shattered. I just feel bad and I have empathy for them.
Exactly, but I'm so astonished of how Jeff D just comfortably told his crimes like it's nothing ( in a very calm voice, not like the other serial killers who were seemingly looking happy when telling it or they deny it to death ) but he told everything and I'm so astonished that he's just too honest which brought him to the dangerous prison instead of insanity plea. If I'm the criminal, I'd take it to my grave and never ever confessed all my crimes, but Jeff D is such an honest creation of the One Above All ( God ) to tell all his crimes and helped authorities and his honesty lead to his earliest death from a schizophreniac fellow murderer inside the jail. I'm just fascinated although I'm not into true crime stories which now caught my attention, but since Netflix's Monster Dahmer, here I am, watching his trials, everything about him. I think that the biggest factor was the abandonment issues bc it contributed a lot since he's alone in their home at Ohio and have done anything he wanted. If time travel exists, I'd really kidnap that infant Jeffrey Dahmer, and take him to an Asian countries, bc for Asians, Families are for forever ! To raise him well and never ever let him be alone. But sadly, this all need to happen and his fate is to be a serial killer for the awareness of everyone especially those that belong to the X-Men Team aka Lgbtqiaxyz communities. I felt for his victims families and also pity his parents. If Steven Hicks wasn't in the road at that very moment, things might've been different, or if he just doesn't have that urges to create a zombie sex slaves this haven't been able to be his reality. Other people only knew that the inside job aka the Blind justice system was the solution for everything, but look at what's happening now, another version of the Jeffrey Dahmer Netflix's series all about him again, it's not gonna stop there bc seeing all the movies and documentaries, there's more probably that would be happening for the future bc it's profitable and would get attention not just where all the serial killers were born and made in the USA but the social media generations and the worldwide eyes and ears !
@@ocktonmcozgarfleunts2218 I completely agree about the abandonment. I feel he had trauma from being abandoned by those who were supposed to love him and so in turn, he brought these young men home to have a feeling of connection with someone and then he had to murder them and keep (and sometimes eat) their parts so they could never leave him.
@@raeclair1373 yes that abandonment issues really made him don't want to leave people, but paralyzing them through his offered drinks was really helpful of his desires to do those unimaginable things and his father said it could be blamed at his hernia surgery but I don't think it could affect anything of his urges of murders, might've been affected his sexual drives but never that urge to kill humans. I just felt sorry for his family, especially his brother who changed his name bc he doesn't want to be in the public eyes. And their mom died at year 2000, such a sad reunion for Jeff and his mom in the soul realms. The schizophreniac murderer of Jeff D is still alive in an isolated facility, his dad Lionel Dahmer is still alive recent interviews from 2020 available here in UA-cam, Glenda Cleaveland passed away from year 2011, and other victims families like Rita ( controversial impact statements scenes also available real recorded court / trials here in UA-cam ) still existed, I wish all of them peace and forgiveness bc the serial killer of their sons / relatives is gone for forever, he's at his eternal sleep which all of us would have, doesn't have a predictable day of when where how and what would be the cause of it but time will tell of our stay here on earth 🌎 bc our borrowed life isn't ours even if we owned our body but not the soul bc it's God's belongings, we all are.
I don't want to talk badly about a woman that passed away so I won't go there. Lionel is sketchy too. But to blame them for Dahmers actions is....too much.
I just stopped the video after the first few sentences out of his dad's mouth. I immediately think of tardive dyskinesia when he spoke of her having those facial movements. This is very common with prolonged use and/or higher doses of 1st generation/typical antipsychotics. Barbituates can cause involuntary movements too. Later he mentions she was given injections of morphine and barbituates. She would have been severely agitated and not in control. This tells me that his mother was suffering from a severe mental health condition. Schizophrenia and bipolar are examples that initially come to mind. Not knowing lots of details, going off gut feelings listening to them, Jeffrey through mother at least, was genetically pre-disposed to mental illness. Father possibly as well, but maybe he was just weird. While Mom says he grew up with everything he needed and normal, she's ignorant about the effects of having even just a depressed mother. I bet there was no expression of love in the home whatsoever shown by Dad to either of them. I'm guessing he was largely unavailable. Back then you were a good husband/father if you went to work and provided for the family and that's about it. I imagine the house was void of light and color, personality and laughter.
Those medications are also not prescribed in pregnancy today. So genetics, meds affecting brain development and home environment are quite the trifecta!
Mom asked the universe for answers but got no response. What happened is his parents don't know God and neither did their son Jeffrey. The universe is a creation. The Dahmer's worship the creation, not the Creator. Thus the fascination with the most sophisticated creation, flesh.
Old school parents, they don’t understand these points. Because they put food on the table, cloth you, pay for your piano lessons and worry about you, they think that they did everything.
Parents are not to be trusted about questions like this. Parents will always say they did a great job. But here I am, having childhood trauma from my mother who thought she was the best mother ever.
Exactly
Same but with my dad. He liked to play who can be the better parent while at the same time isolating me
@@Celeste-jh2lj I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you found some peace and managed to heal from it. I know how hard that can be.
@@notjustanotherbrickinthewall im still working on some stuff but things are differnet than when i was a kid and i think its better than it used to be. I hope the same can be said for you
@@Celeste-jh2lj just as you, working on it. But it will get better! Fixing that generational trauma 💪🏻
I know a lot of people who can't name the medications that they are on, even currently, including some very intelligent people. They will refer to them as "my nausea pills," or "my blood pressure medicine." (Though almost everybody seems to know the exact name of any pain medication that they are on).
Dahmer was born in 1960. I don't know if anything was prescribed for Dahmers' mother, but Bendectin was approved as a treatment for morning sickness in 1956. Bendectin was used in the 60's and 70's, but has since been taken off the market, because it had been suspected of causing birth defects.
The fact that Jeffrey was hospitalized for surgery at such an early age would seem to have more impact on his extreme fear of abandonment. In the 60's, parents were not allowed to stay in the hospital room with their sick child overnight. They would have been made to leave him, and then come back during visiting hours. That can cause a lot of psychological damage in tiny tots.
You bring up a lot of good points! I'd just like to add that Benedictin was ultimately shown to not be associated with birth defects, though the manufacturer voluntarily withdrew it anyway. So Jeffrey Dahmer probably did not have birth issues due to this drug, if his mother used it
It was suspected to cause birth defects because after thalidomide also used for morning sickness caused horrible birth defects, people became understandably worried about other medications like Benedictin. We still use drugs with some of the same ingredients as Benedictin today actually, just under different names
@@kookiekommenter Thank you! I just read that. (I took Bendectin during my 2nd pregnancy). I did an edit, because what HAS been shown to cause psychological damage is separation from the parents for more than a few hours at a time, as babies and toddlers. Dahmer was hospitalized for surgery at that age. 💔
Um my mom was sent to some far away school by herself on a train at 5 years old to stay at that school for almost a year bc her mom was a single mom with too many kids. Yes it has caused abandonment issues and she could get nervous like Dahmer's mom but never a killer.
It was a combination of all that. Mother suffered mental illness prior during and after pregnancy+medicated pregnancy(100%birth defect)+invasive surgery in and around the rectal area at around age 4 (which is coincidentally also the age that signs of autism tend to show up.If not autism,he was definitely on the spectrum of something )+non nurturing upbringing=lots of abandonment issues+father introduces and encourages scientific curiosity in dissecting roadkill+suppressed homosexuality in a non welcoming era/family.=The perfect storm
I haven't heard anyone say Dahmer was on the spectrum. Not even his psychologists diagnosed him with autism, aspergers or ADHD/ADD. I think back in those days, they didn't recognize those disorders just yet. They did diagnose him with schizophrenia among other illnesses. Never any of the spectrums.
@@RozettaVyper yeah not saying he was but it's been debated lately that he could have had something like that. 🤷🏻♀️A psychologist was saying that he doubts he had autism but it's possible and pointed it out as food for thought that his behavior changes correlated with the age those signs tend to show up
@@HajnalkaGyurgyovics I think it is likely. Maybe had he not been murdered, he might've gotten that diagnosis some years later.
I think something is up with the mom, but I will admit. I remember a lot about my first pregnancy, but I could never tell you what medications I was on. I did a quick google when I got home, and that was it. The doctor prescribed it and I took it. I couldn’t tell you the name today if you asked. 🤷🏼♀️
Jeffrey Dahmer said so himself it wasn't any of that . He said it's all his fault his own evil and selfish thinking.
Oh God I'm comment 667, I have to break the number! Oh lord, anyways.. it does make sense that she wouldn't remember what medication she was on just because of how many years ago she was pregnant but maybe. I was pregnant about 11 years ago and I don't really remember the medications that they sent me home with so it does make sense to not remember that but then again maybe maybe not. And I can't believe they cut it off right as she was saying what her complication was the pregnancy was, that was so annoying! LOL damn them
Jeffrey said he killed and kept the body parts because he didn't want them to leave. We know that his father was often away working and that he would walk out after rowing with Jeff's mum. His mum left him to fend for himself too. So for me the sense of abandonment drove his thoughts about having someone to keep in a zombie like state so they wouldn't abandon him
I agree .... I would say that is an accurate observation of the situation . Jeffrey's cannibalism also plays into account with wanting to keep someone and have them. One of the psychiatrist's that interviewed Jeffrey said that Jeffrey was one of the most lonely people he had interviewed . That would also explain the alcoholism that he suffered with even as a teenager .
Abandonment issues don’t have to come just from someone literally leaving. They come from emotional abandonment if the child can’t depend on the parents for emotional needs, and it can be neglect with just not spending enough time in a certain way, even if the parent is literally in the house but doesn’t really interact with the child.
It's a fact that his father was studying and work all the time, so he wasn't around much and his mother has mental issues and depression and she did let him alone to take care of his baby brother
@@sweetluvgurl That is true.... although abandonment issues for most do not lead to murder . It doesn't help but it's not an answer to the root problem.
@@hirynanasarian yes. And I guess the fact he was often away caused a lot of the arguments between them which a child his age should not witness
I’ve always been fascinated by Jeffrey’s mother in particular. There’s a lot bubbling under the surface with her, and she’s spent her whole life concealing it. Thank you.
after his mom left lionel she had a successful career & was very well liked & respected until her death at a young age
@@grettageragi9598 An unhappy marriage can definitely take a person down. So, that makes sense.
@@grettageragi9598 not to mention their second son lived with her and seems to have turned out rather normal and different from Jeffrey.
@@SummeRain783 good point! that’s so true! and the funny thing his mother’s career involved helping others. lionel wanted to profit by writing his book about it. i’m glad that law preventing criminals from making money from murder kicked in
@@sweetluvgurl i wonder if there were any ancestors in dahmer’s family from way back who were murderers?
This is frustratingly close to how my parents act. Mom gets offended and defensive while asking me if I'm 'still going to therapy', not out of concern for me, but because it makes her feel like she did something wrong. Otherwise, why does her daughter need to be 'fixed?' And while I understand why as a parent you would want to avoid the feeling of being responsible for something like this, it doesn't help you look any less selfish when that's all you hone in on. :|
my mom does the same thing and it's so frustrating that she paints herself as someone who "cared for her children very deeply" and then to go to my therapy appointments and have my therapist validate my years and years of severe emotional neglect
hearing jeffrey's parents is hard for me as well because it is so similar to the disgusting, self absorbed, absent way my mother was when I needed to be raised
You don’t need therapy just to workout. Continue telling me I’m fat when I’m not but it puts the blame on me but I definitely have mental health issues and those are their fault…
sounds like my folks too 😵💫
I have a response ready for the day my family comes at me with that question, lol 'I'll be seeing a therapist for as long as you'll be seeing your doctors' (emphasis on A therapist because I believe that I'll be seeing multiple different therapists for different reasons as sometimes one is more suitable for a specific issue than the last one).
My mom is the same. I've been hospitalized several times for mental health reasons. Suicidal and wanting to die. And I either got cold shouldered or she got angry at me. Going through all those dark times competley alone has been very hard. Looking back, the emotional neglect started in childhood.
I don’t trust either parent to be honest in their recollections. They both know they look bad, they’ll say whatever they can to try to look better. Of course they “don’t know” what happened to Jeffrey. Of course they don’t have any “answers”. Their truth makes them look bad, they won’t admit to anything.
ua-cam.com/video/YlHoepRg2ps/v-deo.html
Exactly
Absolutely! And the mother could possibly request for her medical records to be released to prove she wasn’t sick / wasn’t taking anything that could have interfere with the pregnancy for example
Okay and you weren't there so you don't know anything compared to his parents which they were and knowing that there son had been publicly deemed a serial killer they font have any reason to cover up anything.
Absolutely correct the parents try to act as cooly as possible and really don't tell the truth at all especially Jeffreys's mother who we did not feature in Jeffreys's life at all taking anti-depressants and barbituates. It was up to Dad Lionel to bring up Jeffrey doing some very strange things with Jeffrey like dissecting animals etc etc etc. Research shows that it a males has a bad mother sometimes it leads to the child becoming homosexual which is what happened to Jeffrey he became gay - this is another key
His parents give such weird vibes
They all weird!!
Exactly
The father on his interviews looks confident while he tells his deviant behavior on leading his kid Jeff on gathering dead animals, while not feeling sadness or crying.
Instead kid Jeff enjoyed clicking the bones.
No normal parents would do that to your child
@@dianaverano7878taxidermy was pretty normal back in those days...
They knew they were being judged by the whole world... normal to give weird vibes especially considering the circumstances...
We have to remember that back then it was considered wrong and disrespectful to question your doctor. Especially as a woman, it may have been normal for her to blindly trust a doctor's judgment. We would never dream of doing that today, but back then this was common. She could have amnesia around anything traumatic as well.
" considered wrong and disrespectful to question your doctor. " - I agree with you but I think this is still a thing. you're looked at as arrogant or dumb if you question. I've been to doctors for plenty of things and they often get things wrong. Ive taken so many pills for things I didn't need only to make things worse. if I ever mention it to someone I normally get this roll of the eyes attitude. doctors are human too, they make mistakes. My friend is a doctor and they even say there's a lot of arrogance in the field.
@@maple3165 there's arrogance there because the personality type that it takes to become one often requires it. I just walk out of the office if they are condescending. Something I do, is when making an appointment with a new office and they ask me which provider I prefer, I tell them to give me whoever has the best bedside manner. That's helped tremendously.
I had the exact same thoughts. This was such a different time period and I was actually kind of surprised that he didn't weigh in on that when he mentioned a red flag for her saying she didn't know which medications she was on.
I work in Healthcare and the amount of people who don't even know the names of their medications and their efficacy has me like 😳
@@ekko6757 Excellent point 👍
My Mom had 3 miscarriages the last one in 1958 & her doctor told her to take thalidomide & that would prevent another miscarriage. She knew way back then that it caused severe birth defects in the children. She didn't want to purposely bring a birth defected child into the world so she adopted me🤗
She also told me the Doctors are working for me & question question question & if you don't agree go to a different doctor. She also told me they know nothing about nutrition or drugs. If you want to know anything about drugs call a pharmacist. I was on a medication while pregnant & the doctor said it's ok. I called the pharmacist & dropped that medication cold turkey.
Don't be intimidated people. Drs nowadays want you coming back constantly instead of curing you.
Coming from a family with two abusive parents I have a feeling a lot went on in that household that we will never know. To people who didn’t know my family inside they would’ve thought we were spoiled and life was great. Pool and hot tub in the backyard, new clothes every new school year, a car to drive to and from school. Little did people know that there was years upon years of abuse at the hands of both parents
I'm so sorry. I believe you.
Same
Dude I saw a Reddit news article about Joyce when she filed for a divorce against Lionel her reason was to keep him from molesting or disturbing her at the time minor children, and she didn’t actually want to leave Jeff in reality she begged him to go with her, but then when he didn’t respond she told him she was secretly trying to leave Andes away to live back with her family, and she made Jeff promise not to tell his father
I wonder about the younger brother. I know he's very private and I think I remember something about him changing his name. I would just find it interesting to get a peek at the flip side of the coin. We know so much about Jeffrey but what about David his theory and experience.
His father actually had thoughts of killing people.. he just never acted out on his thoughts. His book is worth the read. Makes you wonder..
Yeah, thoughts of killing is totally different from raping and committing necrophilia. A lot of people have killing fantasies it’s not that abnormal. It is abnormal to ACT on it.
@@Yikkoofficial I don’t think a lot of people having killing fantasies… that’s still a very rare fantasy amongst humans. It’s more rare that someone acts on it. The dad also had similar fantasies of control like Jeffrey did.
I find his dad creepy.
@@SummeRain783 i think she means like people have intrusive thoughts all the time. sometimes people cut me off and i’m like ugh i wna ram my car into that guys car. but i don’t actually do it. so in that sense i guess it’s normal.
@@proprocrastinator5257 wanting to ram your car into someone is not the same as killing. Though I don’t even fantasize about doing things like that. If you’re fantasizing about killing people, especially the way Jeffrey was, it’s time to seek help.
Yes please, do an analysis on their body language in the joint father-son interview!! 👀 As always, love your videos, thanks so much for the engaging content!! 🥰
Yes! Please do one on the Stone Phillips interview!
Yes! That’s a really fascinating video!
Right!! It be like watching a Dr. Evil and MiniMe intervention/therapy 😂
@@rjmunster9600 prove it 🥸
@@rjmunster9600 interesting video could have enjoyed it more without the sexual and genitalia content. As an autistic person Observe has done wonders for me to understand some basic concepts, unlike those people over identifying “suspicious” behavior. That would be an interesting video to do, how some “bs pseudo science” actually has helped people function better in society 🤣
lionel said in one interview that he had the same urges & thoughts about murdering people & cutting them up. that has nothing to do with his wife’s pregnancy. and any father that would collect roadkill & cut it up with their son as a hobby is a loon
Yep anyone who wants to dismember animals / or into taxidermy is a sicko don’t care what anyone has to say beyond that. It started young and the father enabled his sick behavior.
Yea put it's in his blood smh crazy ass family!!! They a weird family
Lionel didn't collect roadkill with Jeffrey - Jeffrey did that himself and hid it from his parents. The Netflix series isn't all fact :)
@@LrkeLouisePetersen there’s a video of lionel saying he did collect road kill. it’s on youtube
@@stefaniedejesus3769 on his dad’s side at least. i heard him in in interview that he had the same urges. not just the netflix series.
I would LOVE to see you analyze the interview with Jeffrey and his dad! I’ve seen it, and imo, it seems they had an awkward relationship. They want to behave like father and son, but don’t really seem to know how. From the obligatory side hug when they see each other to the way they sit together. It’s just odd! I know Dahmer became a monster.., but I can’t help but feel badly for young and lonely Jeffrey.
You should feel more bad about the victims whose heads he kept on his fridge and torsos in a acid barrel and flesh he cannibalized.
I feel bad bad for the victims and their family I think the majority do.
However who was the making of Jeffrey
If you can not feel empathy for that young child where do you start.
I’m not excusing him, not at all.
But obviously he’s so very tormented to the point of disassociation
With out recognition of that there will never be intervention
The points Kirsten makes are valid
I couldn't agree more.
In Jeffrey's interview he said the person to blame is himself not parents, society or pornography. While it's good he took responsibility for his actions I always found it weird how he stated his parents first. It's like he was quick to defend them. Something made him that way. I refuse to believe he was simply born evil.
He wasn't. His parents totally and completely neglected slash fucked him up. The mother may have been better after the divorce but prior? The woman was unhinged, and her oldest son bore the brunt of it as David didn't come along until jeff was nearly 7. With that age gap clearly the older boy will be exposed to more crap AND remember more of it too. She tried to kill herself many times and her child was aware. Think about what that does to a child psychologically- "my mom wants to die and leave me forever". Lionel was so controlling he wrote out an itemized budget for jeff to follow when he was in his MID TO LATE 20S, and while he showed more love towards jeff than the mother did he also made dissecting roadkill their bonding time. I mean, wtf. These parents are insane. I don't want to hear "but the other son is normal" - jeff was the worst and extreme, this other boy changed his name and went anonymous so we don't know how normal he is or not if you think about it.
Yours is the best comment so far. @@SnakeGoddesss
I don't remember the names of the medications I was on a year ago, I would be more suspicious if she remembered what she was prescribed 30 years ago than if she didn't. Those medical names can be complicated and at the time she wouldn't have had any reason to memorize them.
I find it very gross that they spend so much energy trying to blame this on the pregnancy and thereby on her. To me it's an antiquated attack and it's not even worth entertaining.
Z I’m
Mmm, nah, I reckon you'd know what you were on when you were pregnant. You don't necessarily need to know the generic name but you'd remember if it was valium, morphine, or even just the class of drugs. I don't think it was the cause of Jeffrey's actions but I don't believe you wouldn't know your medications that you were on for years, no matter how long ago it was, unless you have dementia or you're really really old. Plus she contradicted herself, in the very sentence before she said she remembers everything from her first pregnancy but not the meds. Jeffrey would have been born in withdrawal, believe me, she'd remember that! If you've seen a baby born after a mother has been on opiates or benzos/barbiturates you'd know what I mean and just because they're prescribed makes no difference. It's exactly the same as mothers who are on methadone.
@@melodyvalentine8779 respectfully disagree. She was pregnant decades ago, back when doctors were treated like gods, respected, trusted and didn't necessarily tell their patients specifically what they were being given, especially if it was injected or given in the hospital. Additionally, it wasn't as well known or understood the harms that medication can cause to a developing fetus or even the impact of when in the pregnancy it was given.
@@melodyvalentine8779 my kid is only 13 and I don’t remember anything that I took while I was pregnant. Except pre-Natals. Very few people would remember everything they were on or took a year ago, let alone decades. You’d ask if it was okay while pregnant and that’s it. Was on a bunch of stuff after too and don’t remember those either. Ask about being safe for breastfeeding and that’s it. I don’t even know what I take now for that matter. I’m not looking at the names. I know what they are generally for, but that’s it lol.
Really like I can't recall the exact name but I have a general idea of what probably 95% of meds I take have been. Not the ones I took as a kid of course but the rest
I would never expect a parent of someone like him to really tell the truth ever.
Right? I feel like sometimes it’s passed off as as sort of a normal part of the story butit’s really not lll
Jeff doesn't blame his parents, so why do you feel the need to?
@@danieldebono7116 most don’t blame their parents but when you look at their childhoods for most part the story explains itself….
@@danieldebono7116 when you're raised in abuse and neglect you often don't know what neglect and abuse is. It's just normal to you. He had no social contacts either that I'm aware of, so no opportunity to gain perspective into what healthy family looks like. I always felt like he just didn't want to publicly shed light on his parents issues. They're really the only people he has ever had. Only people who loved him.
@@e_i_e_i_bro not true. His brother David is evidence to the contrary.
I'm curious: does the method of verbal analysis change when there's a known diagnosis of mental illness? Particularly personality and emotional disorders.
I do believe so with Autism it does
Probably not since you start with the baseline of the individual
It might. These things can literally change how the brian is formed. Like i have adhd so fidgeting that might look suspicious in non-adhd is completely normal for me and doesnt typically have anything to do with nerves. I just dont like sitting still
@@Celeste-jh2lj and if there’s records of you having ADHD that is played into account of your baseline, so it’s anything that stays away from the fidgeting is where it becomes suspicious.
@@basicbrittani I have severe C-PTSD, and whenever I worry what I’m going to say will upset someone, I begin to stutter, fidget and break eye contact. It’s a reaction from not knowing how to tell my abusive parents things I knew I’d get “in trouble” for. I’m sure it would trick a polygraph too, because my heart rate picks up and I sweat. It’s a fear response that looks like a lie
I think she had a hard pregnancy, took the medicine she was told to and is now being used by her ex husband as a scapegoat so she's down playing her "roll in this". I don't blame her, if she did what she was told to do by doctors then she did nothing wrong. I don't think drugs could be the only reason he turned out this way. So many kids have hard childhoods, parents who are prescribed drugs that could be damaging or who drink and do illegal drugs etc but they don't do the things he did.
Dahmer did not get much affection or physical touch from his mother or attention from his father in childhood. could easily account for his obsession with abandonment.
As someone who works in a pharmacy and whose mother is a pharmacist so many people take medications and have no idea what they're called, what they do, what condition or illness they're for, etc. Many people just get it from the doctor and take it. Even if there was a severe reaction from the medication, some people don't care enough to remember. I will say the later part isn't as common though, the majority of people remember negative side effects of drugs they take
Love your videos. I'd like to see a video of 1 person telling 2 stories 1 lying and 1 telling the truth and seeing the differences on the same face to understand more how the same face would look with a lie and a truth.
it is pretty obvious she deeply feels she didn't handle her pregnancy or parenting responsibly and trying to defend it here. She even tried to kill herself and then just was willing to accept it in the end by doing good deeds. The mother really gives me bad vibes in general. Both parents are desperately trying to save face. That's what it is
Can I say different
That mum is a victim of Psychological abuse
When she got away she was able to get herself sorted and she did well
She would always have a degree of guilt Maybe even survivors guilt
She came from an era when little was understood so you kept it under lock and key - very thing is perfect in my world
Yet she left and divorced at a time that was very unacceptable That wasn’t easy either and she’d have guilt for that to
She was taken to the doctor given drugs for things she doesn’t remember and then public blamed and exposed by that man.
In other interviews he says it was nobody’s fault Jeffery just got his thought life tangled except for her she took drugs and had convulsions like episode in the pregnancy.
If she’s Denying that then he’s telling the doctor to get her medication it’s abuse
So I ask who wouldn’t go into self protection mode.
Not only will she be lying to the world but her self to and I can not condemn her for that.
I take meds and I am always blown away when I ask a friend what their med is and they have to look. I know plenty of medications that used to be safe are no longer considered safe but the lack of knowing the med, especially back when people didn't really question doctors isn't shocking to me. Though, she should've been able to say what it was for treating at least to an extent. She would've known if she was getting lock jaw or muscle spasms or if they were for insomnia etc.
Dahmers actual actions and his words suggest to me that he lacked a healthy attachment with his parents for whatever reason. Perhaps their fault, perhaps the fault of how people raised babies at that time (cry it out etc), or perhaps just his perception.
😅
.... My apologizes Marisa. Tht?
...made 0 sense.
They will never say the truth, of course they will say he lived in a happy family, but once the doors closed we never know what happened behind it, I see them both liars, they trying to put the blame on each other, and it shows how they didn’t care about their son, I really feel bad for young and abandoned Jeff he just want they to give him attention and care when he needed it
them*
I would love for you to watch the Behavioral Panel where they go over the interview with JD, where his father was present. To me it seemed their focus kept drifting towards the dad and how JD reacted in response to his father. I have this nagging feeling that there is something there that has not come to the surface.
That was a great piece done by The Behavior Panel.
I don't think it was the meds his mother was on. I think it was abandonment issues and his dad introducing him to death and dead animal bodies at such a young age. He became fascinated by it all and progressed to humans.
His dad didn't introduce him to that.. He didn't even know about that. Listen to Dahmers interview and not that Netflix bullshit.. Everyone who watched that series is now commenting on everything
@@stephaniegilcher4577, I agree! People need to do research away from that series.
Actually his dad did later admit his involvement
The interviews with Roy Ratcliff, the pastor who mentored, and baptized, Dahmer in prison, are very interesting. He faced massive backlash, and maintained that Dahmer was genuinely converted. I’d be curious to see if he was sincere.
Didn’t Janes Dobson also get involved
I seem to remember an interview he did to
It was a long time ago though and my memory maybe out.
I’m sure he did one with the dad to and some of the things dad said where wild
Yeah I definitely agree that they try to shift the blame one another. I feel that the husband really tries to make the wife the reason for this. But there are so many reasons why Jeffrey was like how he was. Unstable home/parents, being bullied, sexuality and not being able to express that because it wasn't okay at the time, also I do think that the dad doesn't want to except the fact he introduced him to the world of killed animals and putting them in acid.. It's literally what he did with humans?
Meds could have played a part in it. Back then, meds were starting to be studied when it came to pregnant women using them. Half the things they were allowed to be on back then can not be used now for that reason.
Then for her to say she didn't have seizures... There is a chance she did and can't remember them. Depending on how bad it is, some people black out from them and do not know they had one until someone who seen it could tell them.
There are many factors that could have played a part into who Jeffrey became.
There’s a difference between not remembering the individual seizures and not knowing you have a disorder. I used to have fainting spells so obviously I was unconscious during the actual event, but I was still aware that I would regularly wake up on the floor surrounded by concerned people
Really can't blame the parents for being cagy. They've probably been coached to not lay the blame on themselves. A parent could drive themselves mad blaming themselves for the behaviour of their kids, even if they're trying their best
There are many children who feel alone, and isolate, during tense times, such as parental conflict/divorce. Some may not grow up to be completely 'normal', but there's no evidence or research claiming they might be a 'Dahmer-type.' Dahmer is in a class all his own.
He was unfortunately in a class of his own
I call it the class of his dads social experiment
He’s dad said it was justifiable because he was a scientist
But there he was on his own.
On the part of her denying ever having seizures. It is completely possible to have had seizures and not remember it or the hours before and after. My ex-fiancé has epilepsy, he could lose days at a time when he was having an episode.
Hi there! I'm also epileptic and can confirm. I don't remember any of my blank-out, full-convulsion seizures. To the point where I would literally not know they happened unless somebody were to tell me I had one. I would wake up on the floor and not even have the mental capacity to question why I might be on the floor, and by the time I'm feeling more alert I'll have forgotten I was even on the floor in the first place. I'm aware others do experience rememberung the seizure, but for her to straight-up deny ANY possibility of simply not remembering it is just not how seizures work, thank you very much.
@@tomyevans4582 I hate to hear that. Epilepsy isn’t a fun thing to live with from an outside perspective, so I can just imagine how much it would suck to be the one living with it. Maybe she doesn’t want her son’s deeds to fall back on her. But if my kid turned out to be a serial killer, I would prefer it be linked to something that doctors gave me than how he grew up. One could “sorta” be blamed on the doctors, the other is just being a crap parent.
@@Startedliving2015 100000% agree with you there. I'd also much rather be like "damn my parenting might have played a role, but the way I raised him hit him much worse potentially because of the medication I was put on during pregnancy." I could at least, as you said, "sorta" blame doctors, and maybe still humanize my son in a way. Like damn maybe it wasn't all him, there were extenuating circumstances that led him here. Y'know? Either way I hope you and your fiance are well!!
@@tomyevans4582 exactly. I wouldn’t want it to be even slightly plausible for something like that to be my fault.
And he is good. He still has his episodes, but he doesn’t let it keep him down for long. We aren’t together anymore, but he upgraded from my fiancé to my children’s uncle who loves to spoil them. So it all worked out for us in the end.
@@tomyevans4582 hopefully you aren’t doing too horrible with the new seasons. Not sure about for you, but the heat always made my ex feel so much worse.
As much as I like the crime stuff, I think we need a mental break with some trashy reality tv reads again
I honestly feel like if Dhamer didn't have to hide the fact that he was gay he wouldn't have done what he did. He might've had some messed up kinks but I honestly feel like he would've been a different person. I'm in no way defending what he did but I'd be super curious to see that alternate timeline.
I agree, not enough people are talking about repressed sexuality and homophobia and how that couples in with all the other issues he was facing.
@@Rhiannon.Moonchild Unfortunately that's the world he grew up in. I'm not gay myself but I can only imagine that it must be horrible to feel like you have to hide who you truly are. Hell I feel like an outcast simply because I'm an introvert so I only imagine it would be like that but worse.
I'm a transgender and bisexual teenager from a very trans/homophobic country and I can confirm that hiding your identity from your surroundings is extremely difficult .
Hopefully my sister is accepting , and in the internet I found my people and got a lot of support , however when I have never told my friends about it , I know that if I do I will get heavily bullied .
Imagine how a gay (or trans) kid might feel at that time , knowing that everyone around them doesn't accept who they are , it must've felt very draining .
I think it did affect him a lot .
Don't get me wrong I don't support anything he has done , but as an lgbtq+ kid I sympathize with his struggles as a gay person living in that time
She says her pregnancy was normal and no issues - then what were the medications for? Why was she on any medication at all? Like obviously hiding her medical history
I thought exactly the same, if you were perfectly healthy and/or not having any health problems during pregnancy, you would not be taking any medications at all.
To be fair, she said the pregnancy was normal and without issue.
She didn't say that she wasn't having difficulty within herself. With how toxic their family were I'd highly doubt that wasn't affecting her. My guess is the prescription drugs were revolving around depression at the very least, given the suicide attempt.
And she doesn't have to air out her history to the world, especially with people judging her
@Logan: Thank you for the analysis! I really like and appreciate your work! Could you do a video analysing the German soccer player Jerome Boateng? He seems to be very manipulative and dangerous to some extent so it would be exciting to hear your take on that.
he is not a monster. his parents completely f* him up. Imagine being so incredibly lonely that the only way you can get human intimacy or connection is by objectifying people and killing them to not ever be able to leave you. As incredibly sad and violent this is for the families i also do have compassion for Jef. He was a gifted young man whose parents abused him really bad.
i’ve been interested in the case for a few years and i can assure you, when you read about the inaccuracies and missed out details, that pity will disappear. it wasn’t about romance or intimacy, he was a sadistic killer
there’s someone on tiktok who studied forensics in university and they had pat kennedy who was the lead investigator of the case come in and do a lecture where they were shown all of the evidence that isn’t public including all of the polaroids (there were close to a thousand) and case documents.
she said that the case is so much worse than what information is out there…
Lots of people have been abused by their parents but most don't end up like Dahmer.
You wouldn’t be saying he is not a monster if he was torturing you. And if you argue he is a product of his parents treatment of him then surely you have to argue they were a product of how they were treater and so on and so on
@@MariaDonkova yeah I would be interested in seeing the letter if you can post it.
I understand your feelings of pity, after all, how do any of us know whether if we experienced exactly the same lives as serial killers we also wouldn’t commit the same atrocities? But there are times we have to step outside of ourselves and that is what serial killers stop doing. Their own lives become more important than anyone else’s. Of course this isn’t limited to serial killers and is in fact a universal human fault
@@christophervaughan2637 Oh okay here’s the letter that I can translate since the screenshot is in cursive and I don’t know if I can’t post photos on here but here it is,
Dear Dad & Shari,
Thanks for coming up to see me. Shari I hope that you’re feeling much better by the time this letter arrives. You will probably receive this letter after I phone you on Aug. 23rd.
Bob Mozenter called me early this week and told me you are very concerned about my talk with the FBI. I also got your letter dad thanks. I do not think that you should worry about my talk with them. I gave Bob Mozenter the address and phone # of the Milwaukee FBI agent. This agent met with me about 2 weeks ago and the only topic of discussion was as follows:
1. What could the police have done differently to stop me sooner.
2. What could my probation agent done differently.
3. Why did I decide to confess to all the crimes.
That’s all we talked about. I told them nothing that would interfere with the book, nothing about our family life. In fact most of the time was spent talking about the creation science books that I’m reading. The second visit was short. The Florida detective wanted to know,
1. If I was involved in the Adam Walsh case.
2. Why I went to Florida.
3. How long was I in FL.
4. What was my job in FL.
5. Where did I live in Miami
6. Did I own a car or van there.
7. Who did I spend time with in FL.
Again, I said Nothing about our family - past, present - or future! I gave them No new information on Anything! Their questions dealt only with my activities in FL and how the police could have handled the encounters with me differently. I promise I will not talk with them again. I did not mean to worry you, I’m sorry.
Love, Jeff”
I imagine it’s possible for his mother to have had a physically “normal” pregnancy while also experiencing some mental health issues. If that were the case, then it’s not a stretch to guess that there might be some reluctance or shame surrounding the admission of those issues. Just a guess.
You have to understand that we have a lot of editing in these interviews.People don’t know that often they will cut answers short as they want a concise summary but they also are looking for high ratings.
I could totally be wrong here. But I honestly feel like Lionel at least does take some responsibility in how Jeff turned out, I think maybe even deep down he blames himself more than he blames Jeff but he’s trying to find some scientific proof or something that he can use to alleviate some of that self blame. Or maybe he did blame himself fully until one day he was like like “no she’s to blame” or “we are both to blame” but the crimes are so heinous he’s grasping at straws trying to science his way to a less guilty conscience.
Where as I think “momma Dahmer” is absolutely delusional lying to herself so she doesn’t have to take an ounce of responsibility I think she’s told herself soo many lies that deep down she truly believes not a speck of him is her fault.
I think Lionel is the better parent here but neither were necessarily good parents.
I definitely believe Jeff was abused as a child. On Donahue & Geraldo a gay lover of Jeff said that Jeff told him he was sexually abused by his father. I know he was probably born a psychopath but I believe his childhood had a lot to do with it as well. Unfortunately Jeff protected his parents and never admitted what really happened in his childhood so we’ll never know the truth. He was willing to go into gruesome detail about his murders but not his childhood.
It could have been avoided if his parents REALLY checked and cared for him especially during his puberty to late teenage years, but what they did is they left him alone in their home during high school, and ended up having trauma with abandonment.
I have never heard parents of sociopaths admit to anything they did to destroy their kids. They are all lying.
Please do Courtney Love. She has been accused of killing kurt cobain. The documentary Soaked In Bleach gives the best depiction of the events leading up to Kurt's death. Courtney's father hank Harrison and courtney love both claim they are sociopaths.
Courtney is linked to the deaths of kristen pfaff, el duce, nikolas hartshorne, detective Antonio Terry and possibly mia zapata. She was also accused of trying to kill her x son in law Isaiah Silva. She tried to kill her first husband James Moreland and she threatened to kill brianne o connor ....Kurt's little half sister in 1994
Poor Courtney can’t be left alone already
@@Noname-vm9ue she has been left alone to this day. she should've been behind bars.
@@Noname-vm9ue poor courtney murdered her way into an estate worth more than Elvis's and has a criminal record 50 miles long and will not stop using thugs to terrorize and kill. Poor courtney got breast implants with weeks of Kurt's death to augment her publicity stunts, and then she was photographed in bed with evan dando and on Courtney's back was a teddy bear containing Kurt's ashes. shes a sick twisted monster who was disinherited by her entire family and even her only child. They know how dangerous and psychopathic she is
Crazy family smh
While knowing full well it would be unethical as heck, I still wish that Joyce's doctor had come forward with what she was on. Prenatal vitamins weren't a thing yet so that's easy to rule out.
I get the impression she was doped out of her head.
You know in that era it could have been the Hallucinogenic type drugs to.
I actually fully believe her when she says she didn’t have those Episodes
She denied them so she must’ve been medicated on his description and history
The doctors couldn’t find anything medical either
He says they where associated with mental health issues which is very unusual
And very Stigmatising at that time in history
It’s a cheap shot at her and
Is that suspicious heck yer.
As someone who had a mother who was mentally abusive and neglective and a drug addict and abusive father, I've had nothing but deep sadness as a toddler to now, it's very VERY draining
Oprah interviewed his dad (I think it was her) in the 90’s and he said Jeffrey had fallen off a swing set and had a very bad concussion when he was a young child and that was the reason he thinks he could have become a psychopath. Psychopathy can be caused by head trauma. I wonder why he forgot this instance? Makes me think Lionel lied to Oprah to make up some excuse he couldn’t be blamed for
What’s medicine that she took while she was pregnant with Jeffrey?
Unfortunately his parents didn't even have enough decency not to point fingers at each other in national tv interviews! they were both selfish and immature and of course no child would have a happy time around them. They neglected Jeffrey and that's on them! Second thing that I know was an honest mistake but still was a huge one that Lionel made was getting Jeffrey into dissecting dead animals which started as his interest and later turned into his obsession and I strongly believe that obsessions will get worse and weirder if given the conditions needed like loneliness that is actually one of the biggest factors in most psychological problems. So to wrap things up my personal opinion is that although we can't say Jeffery Dahmer's homicides are on his parents but we can say they built the root or at least made it stronger by the way they treated him but you know these cases are more complicated than that and we should consider all the possible components such as genetics and etc.
All of this!
An honest mistake!
No the man is sick and created a deeply dysfunctional family
Mom did well when she got out of it
Until she had to interact with him again
Then it all becomes about self protection all over again
Some in fact many abused people tell the world everything was/is wonderful
I’m sure she has guilt for a lot of things including survivors guilt.
@@louisejeffries7155 I don't think he created the dysfunctional family all by himself, Joyce was at fault too. If you've watched documentaries or even the series you know what I mean. They both had problems and they both did leave Jeffrey on his own when he was only 17 or 18! That's not a thing to expect from a good mother and ofc a good father.
Also I do believe the mistake I've mentioned in my first comment is an honest one; with Lionel being a chemist and scientist, ofc he wanted his child to be one too and many kids like dissecting animals so when he saw that he's interested he saw an opportunity to lead his son to the path of science. it wasn't like he wanted to raise a sk by purpose! so yeah when it's not done deliberately it is just an honest mistake.
Btw many people have troubled married lives and then get divorced at the end and their kids go through so much just as much as Jeffery and most of them aren't even criminals, many people like dissecting dead animals and as above they're mostly not criminals; so no matter what the conditions are, at last it all depends on what decision the person makes on their OWN.
@@Masoumeh_Hoseini thank for the reply
I don’t think Lionel was deliberate in what he did
He not a well man
But he is a very calculated man
Jeffrey was left by Mom true and even when she was there it sounds like she was doped out of head
If you really dig into what was happening there it becomes very suspicious
For Joyce to separate in that era was no easy thing. No social support and frowned on by society
Most women stayed in Abusive relationships and not always for the children While that Might be an altruistic reason mostly it was because there was no other options.
They smiled put their lippy on and presented to the world like everything is wonderful perfect.
The problems must have been extreme for her to leave right?
Fortunately her problems started to resolve once she left.
I’m sure she’ll probably have survivors guilt there.
Left Jeffrey on his own at 17 - 18 huge numbers of kids had left home by that age then.
Lots of girls where married by 18
It was in no way unusual.
There is no issues around taxidermy It’s the sexual component that has issues. It is an illness called piquerism look it up. Lionel with out using the term later admitted to this
He also talks about taking Jeffrey and watching him have injections with a small but nasty smile on his face as he says this
There is the strong possibility of Munchhausen’s by proxy with both Joyce and Jeffrey
I was t having a go at you personally when I questioned the ‘honest mistake’ I was questioning the statement I shouldn’t have I don’t need to so I do apologise for that.
I could go on
Believe me I have watched more than a doc and some interviews on Jeffrey and his family
And have come to the conclusions I have.
I won’t give you the full brief of my summary
It’s nearly a flipping thesis.
But there is a lot more to that man than you’ll ever pick up in an hour long doc.
If you want to study the twisted mind that one is a very interesting place to start.
@@louisejeffries7155 I get what you say and I totally agree with you; divorce is a huge issue specially back then and with low support system. It needs courage to get out of a toxic marriage with all these conditions but at last she saved herself and made peace with it. That's power.
loved this comparison.. I definitely sense there's alot of blame shifting/shrugging responsibility.. and while they may not have been horrible I think there's still alot they aren't sharing that contributed to what he became that they have some responsibility for..
I find this very interesting. I’m not watching the Netflix series because I don’t want to relive the crimes, but your analysis is good. Please do more on this.
Would you ever consider doing a video on the Darrell Brooks trial? I've been watching the UA-cam clips of the trial non-stop and I'd love to see your take on it.
You have to watch the ENTIRE interview Joyce did with Stone Phillips. The clips in this are just a fraction of the 20 minute interview they aired on tv. The camera is centered so close up to her face because her lawyer is sitting right there next to her, ready to jump in and cut either Stone or Joyce off when she doesn't like what is being/might be said. I don't buy Lionel's version of events 100% but I really, really don't believe ANYTHING that comes out of Joyce's mouth.
Let us not forget that a high school friend of Jeffrey Dahmer wrote a book as well, the comic book My Friend Dahmer, in which he also describes how neglected and cast aside Jeff was by his mother. She was too wrapped up in whatever frivolous activity/friendships she was interested in to pay any attention to her own son. He would get drunk at school regularly and she didn't know anything??? Did she ever talk to him? Lionel worked but she was home and has no excuse why she knew absolutely nothing about her own kid for years.
They both neglected him but Joyce wants to act like she was some kind of decent mother which really doesn't seem to be true at all. Just because the kid was fed and housed doesn't mean she was a great mother, to me it seems like she treated Jeff as more of a pet than a child.
Please do Jeff and his dad interview!
!!!!
You have one of the best intros on UA-cam hands down man 👍🏼
Maybe, just maybe he was just evil at conception??? A bad seed, so to say??😳😳😳
Just my totally unprofessional opinion. Jeff was born with tendency’s to the macabre based on what his father’s told us about his own morbid thoughts. That’s no coincidence. Then as a small child, he witnesses horrific
fights between his parents. Then his dad introduces him to dead animals and allows him to explore, dissect and spend all kinds of time alone with said animals. His mother flat out abandons him, his father doesn’t even know she left. By this time, he’s formed severe abandonment issues. He doesn’t really have friends. And the ones he does speak to in school merely use his weirdness for laughs. He doesn’t want to be homosexual but is, something else he struggles with. He has kept all of his feelings, fears & emotions bottled up inside until his sick fantasies are no longer satisfying so he has to go a step further. Once he realizes this is the one thing in his life he can control and he can stop people from leaving him, he goes on to commit some of the most heinous crimes ever known. He knows it’s wrong, he knows it’s disgusting to others but he can’t stop himself. We’ll never know if things may have turned out differently had he been raised in a loving home, with parents who respected each other, showed love instead of hate and had deeper talks with Jeff to really get to know him instead of just thinking well my son is weird & off and he’s always been like this. He may have killed anyway or maybe he’d had become a medical examiner since he had so much interest with what is on the inside of us. He had no self worth and a lot of anger. The worst part is, had the cops just looked in those garbage bags that night, there only would have been one victim and one was already too many. His mother is a total piece of sh*t. Her lying just comes with the territory.
I belive something in being in a hospital as a kid triggered some kind of weakness he was born with. Add to that emotionaly distant parents and not getting the therapy he needed (the school alerted the parents), only made him worse.
Well, in other video's the father also blames himself. I've not really seen him blame his ex-wife. He just says that things could have gone wrong during the pregnancy.
They both shouldn't have argued and screamed at eachother so often. Jeff said that it really made him depressed and angry. Which is not helpful for his psyche.
They should have paid more attention to him... talked to him.
How can he drink so much alcohol from 16 years old without his parents noticing it? I mean, he was very sneaky and drank it all at school.. but still... an observant parent would have known eventually, right?
1) Dahmer’s choices were his and his alone, regardless of his family dynamics
2) what I get from the parents is the mom is desperate to believe she was a good mom and didn’t do anything wrong. That whatever cause Dahmer’s behavior was outside of her and the family. The father feels the need to know why this happened and to have an answer, so he keeps positing theories, even though he’d rather not be responsible either (it was the medications, maybe I was too detached as a father, etc).
i'm not sure if his dad really wants to know why it happened, I've seen that his mother wanted Jeffrey's brain to be examined after his death but his father refused which doesn't really make sense in that case.
Heard the father has a book and has spoken in interviews that are on UA-cam saying he's had similar fantasies and trouble with control. So that's definitely interesting to hear and will be looking into that myself
@@vanessak6590
Yes it does make sense. If they examined his brain, and found no abnormalities, then it doesn't explain anything. It just makes everyone more upset as to why they dont have any definitive answers.
@@bailey7792 it doesn't really make sense to me, because if there were no abnormalities then they'd know the same as they do now, nothing really would change because they'd be still wondering what could have been the reason for Jeffrey's doings. He had an option to find some answers or at least clues and he wasted that chance.
Will you ever analyze the Stone Philips interview with Jeffrey and Lionel? I think that’s the most interesting one. I love your analysis so I thought it could be interesting to discover more about that one interview in particular
I came from divorced parents. Dad left around age 11, the way they are blame throwing it shows what he was stuck in the middle of. Meanwhile thier being selfish n his well being got lost in the mix. I ended up going from a A B honor roll student in band, cheered, was a ballerina for 9 years, to not caring if i lived or died. Put myself in dangerous situations and ended up on prescribed drugs opiates and benzos. Was overdosing on methadone and xanax every month when I got my Xanax script. Didn’t stop until I got real help n healed my wounds of what they did, what happened after. Was r**ped many times before even being 16 years old. Got pregnant n had a abortion at 13. That neglect n selfishness messes u up. N when u feel worthless u don’t care about yourself. Put on top of all that he was gay n that wasn’t ok in his world. Then honestly I think there are signs of being on the spectrum possibly because of the social part. Feeling like the people had to be knocked out for him to touch them n be in control. Not saying with on the spectrum would or do do what he did. I am high functioning autistic n I had a hard time relating to people only had two actual relationships one being my husband and intimacy was very difficult for me. I have other reasons for that thinking too but there’s the just of what I see.
I've always thought the Father was warped and I've watched every interview he has ever done
I agree totally agree
Jeffrey's parents were said to be at each other's necks. Always deflecting blame onto each other. They were toxic before Jeffrey was born. I wouldn't trust what either parent says. Jeffrey said they always argued, his father was a workaholic and Jeffrey had to deal with Joyce's psychosis and borderline & narcissistic outbursts. The fault is in both parents.
Maybe talk about the operation JD had as a child, and how his father said he was different afterwards?
I don’t believe the mom at all. I believe the father, there were problems while she was pregnant and she was medicated.
Did any of the medications effect the way Jeffrey grew in the womb? I’ve no idea, of course.
But I remember every medication I’ve been prescribed, and being chronically ill for 16+ years that’s a ton of medication ( I was just looking through my medical notebook and I remember for what reason and how long I took each one and why it was prescribed) And when I was pregnant with my son I was hyper vigilant of what I took. There’s no way she doesn’t know if she took morphine while pregnant.
bells pausey can cause nerves in the face to freeze sometime not going back to normal and it could be frowned on back then.
Lionel was so quick to put his story out there, and try to blame everything on her... me thinks he doth protest too much? He was trying to shift more of the blame onto Joyce because I think he really messed Jeff up.... no one knows for sure if Jeff was @bused, but of course Jeff wouldn't tell the media what his dad did if he was literally the last person that he had when his crimes came to light. Also, a lot of his crimes involved his victims being defenseless...... like he was when he was younger? A way to be in control after something uncontrollable happened to him? Not to mention that his father once said that a neighbor @bused Jeff, but then later retracted his statement?? Probably because people would start wondering who this neighbor was....All just speculation though. Also, absolutely not excusing his crimes either, just interesting to know the psychology about what could have led to this, and if it could have been prevented.
Jeffrey's parents were so involved in their own lives that they were constantly signaling to Jeffrey that he was unloved and not valued in his family.
Hey 4 up hi from Sacramento! Off to nurse work!
Lionel Dahmer seems to be a good man to me. Joyce FLint seems to be a lunatic. I could be wrong, but this is how they strike me. Lionel to me, when he was younger, was a lot more interested in himself and his work than Jeffrey. But in fact, you'll at least 9 out of every 10 men are exactly the same way. Joyce to me had something seriously wrong with her. True, she was taking medications her Doctors recommended but you'd still think, at some point, she would have been concerned about the fetus she was carrying. The two of them together was combustible. Two people much better off without each other. Which brings us to Jeff. I feel very confident the actions of his parents had a big influence on him. However, I don't blame his Dad for the roadkill - he was just fostering an interest Jeff had. I think the abundance of medication the Mother was taking had to have some affect on Jeff. Jeff being born gay didn't help either cuz he had to suppress this part of himself (due to attitudes in the 1970s) - so he closed himself off. You put it all together and you come up with one seriously sick individual, which is exactly what Jeffrey Dahmer was. Funny though, Jeff's brother, by all accounts, ended up totally normal. So, I suppose you'd have to add in Jeff simply being born with multiple deficiencies as well.
Jeffrey Dahmers mother couldn't connect with him when he was baby. Because her own mental health problems she couldn't hold him near. She never hugged him or held him in her arms. Jeffrey suffered in so many ways already as a little child. He wasn't born a psychopath .
8:20 she didn't say she doesn't REMEMBER the medications she said she didn't KNOW, women at that time were not in charge of their own bodies and very often doctors only talked to the husbands so it is very plausible that no one even bothered to explain what medications she is getting
Agreed absolutely agree
And it’s also highly likely the doctor only ever heard a described episodes from Lionel
She denies them so will not be describing them
The history and examination didn’t reveal anything plausible medically.
He explains them associated to mental health issues which is bazaar and the mental health resolved after the separation Even more bazaar.
She went on to do well.
Jeffrey who stayed under his extreme control becomes a serial killer stating he did it so he could have something of his own. Geez that not only horrific it’s extreme m. Take the head in the box episode - who takes his 20 + years old sons private space (retrospectively we know there was a decapitated head but that’s retrospective) and goes to get tools to open the box. Then makes the executive decision wether to open the box or not. Jeffrey box but no way Jeffreys decision in his late 20’s
I believe there was Psychological abuse there for both Jeffrey and his mum.
Those episodes where a manifestation.
They didn't say there was no possibility that the meds had damaged JD, just that there was no way to establish a link between the meds given when he was in utero and the crimes he committed as an adult. Those are two very different statements and it's important to recognise the distinction. Pharmaceutical regulation wasn't as strict back then, and not as much was known about how certain drugs could affect the foetus. Dont forget the thalidomide scandal happened not all that long before Joyce was pregnant, and the outcomes there, although very different, were just as tragic and shocking. Heartbreaking all round.
I always got gaslighting vibes from the dad towards the mom. I think the parents will try to protect themselves in a situation like this. I think neglect must have been occurring if Jeff was drinking so much in his high school years, surely the parents would notice that otherwise. 🙄
He was a psychopath. It's no one's fault. Everyone wants to blame parents. There are plenty of children that had horrible homes and don't become murderous cannibals.
I trust lionel moreso. Jeffreys mother was a borderline and like narcissism npd they rewrite history to suit their own narrative. Shes defensive and only concerned with being blamed.
Nothing the mother said made any sense.
I'll almost certainly say narcissistic parents. Trying to hide there lack of proper attention and time it takes to socialize a person, it he would be socialized.
I have a video idea for you and Piper! Maybe..? SISTER WIVES!! Christine left Kody and the reactions of the other 3 would be interesting, along with maybe guessing who may possibly be more likely to leave next. Meri is being constantly ignored, janelle is being criticized and forced to pick between her husband and her children, and Robyn says she doesn’t like how kody and her are basically in a monogamous marriage and that she didn’t make the covid rules but some think that’s a lie. So I’d be very curious for y’all to look into that. Idk how I’d give links bc it’s HULU.
ALSO analyzing the Sims announcement about their project Rene could be very interesting to see if the sims gurus are truly thinking about the new sims idea.
Honestly, this is so sad. These two are obviously hurting. The trauma they’ve endured. No one wants to find out that their kid, their baby, has committed heinous, unspeakable crimes and taken the lives of another parents babies and no one wants to be at fault and I completely understand their need to defend themselves from each other and from the media.
It’s obvious that this is something that has harboured some deep resentment between the two and instead of being able to come together to heal, they just keep tearing open the wound.
Everyone wants answers that no one has and people think “well it must be the parents” but sometimes people are just bad. He made his own choices and we will never know why and everyone needs to stop pointing fingers at anyone EXCEPT Jeff.
The parents are victims, obviously not to the extent or the deceased and their families, but in their own way. They’ve lost a son as well, their normal way of life and they’ve been disillusioned. I’ve been on the other end of the curtain being lifted when someone you love vomits a crime and it’s traumatic. Your reality is shattered.
I just feel bad and I have empathy for them.
Exactly, but I'm so astonished of how Jeff D just comfortably told his crimes like it's nothing ( in a very calm voice, not like the other serial killers who were seemingly looking happy when telling it or they deny it to death ) but he told everything and I'm so astonished that he's just too honest which brought him to the dangerous prison instead of insanity plea. If I'm the criminal, I'd take it to my grave and never ever confessed all my crimes, but Jeff D is such an honest creation of the One Above All ( God ) to tell all his crimes and helped authorities and his honesty lead to his earliest death from a schizophreniac fellow murderer inside the jail. I'm just fascinated although I'm not into true crime stories which now caught my attention, but since Netflix's Monster Dahmer, here I am, watching his trials, everything about him. I think that the biggest factor was the abandonment issues bc it contributed a lot since he's alone in their home at Ohio and have done anything he wanted. If time travel exists, I'd really kidnap that infant Jeffrey Dahmer, and take him to an Asian countries, bc for Asians, Families are for forever ! To raise him well and never ever let him be alone. But sadly, this all need to happen and his fate is to be a serial killer for the awareness of everyone especially those that belong to the X-Men Team aka Lgbtqiaxyz communities. I felt for his victims families and also pity his parents. If Steven Hicks wasn't in the road at that very moment, things might've been different, or if he just doesn't have that urges to create a zombie sex slaves this haven't been able to be his reality. Other people only knew that the inside job aka the Blind justice system was the solution for everything, but look at what's happening now, another version of the Jeffrey Dahmer Netflix's series all about him again, it's not gonna stop there bc seeing all the movies and documentaries, there's more probably that would be happening for the future bc it's profitable and would get attention not just where all the serial killers were born and made in the USA but the social media generations and the worldwide eyes and ears !
@@ocktonmcozgarfleunts2218 I completely agree about the abandonment. I feel he had trauma from being abandoned by those who were supposed to love him and so in turn, he brought these young men home to have a feeling of connection with someone and then he had to murder them and keep (and sometimes eat) their parts so they could never leave him.
@@raeclair1373 yes that abandonment issues really made him don't want to leave people, but paralyzing them through his offered drinks was really helpful of his desires to do those unimaginable things and his father said it could be blamed at his hernia surgery but I don't think it could affect anything of his urges of murders, might've been affected his sexual drives but never that urge to kill humans. I just felt sorry for his family, especially his brother who changed his name bc he doesn't want to be in the public eyes. And their mom died at year 2000, such a sad reunion for Jeff and his mom in the soul realms. The schizophreniac murderer of Jeff D is still alive in an isolated facility, his dad Lionel Dahmer is still alive recent interviews from 2020 available here in UA-cam, Glenda Cleaveland passed away from year 2011, and other victims families like Rita ( controversial impact statements scenes also available real recorded court / trials here in UA-cam ) still existed, I wish all of them peace and forgiveness bc the serial killer of their sons / relatives is gone for forever, he's at his eternal sleep which all of us would have, doesn't have a predictable day of when where how and what would be the cause of it but time will tell of our stay here on earth 🌎 bc our borrowed life isn't ours even if we owned our body but not the soul bc it's God's belongings, we all are.
10:00 she literally sounds like a mother who's trying to make people think she's a great mother... I don't believe her at all
Wtf I have been busy and haven’t watched you in awhile….when did you get hair?
I do believe his parents are somewhat responsible for how Jeffrey was. Neither one wanted to admit to that unfortunately
I don't want to talk badly about a woman that passed away so I won't go there. Lionel is sketchy too. But to blame them for Dahmers actions is....too much.
Not sure if you’ve already done John Wayne Gacy, but if you haven’t could you? Please
I just stopped the video after the first few sentences out of his dad's mouth. I immediately think of tardive dyskinesia when he spoke of her having those facial movements. This is very common with prolonged use and/or higher doses of 1st generation/typical antipsychotics. Barbituates can cause involuntary movements too. Later he mentions she was given injections of morphine and barbituates. She would have been severely agitated and not in control. This tells me that his mother was suffering from a severe mental health condition. Schizophrenia and bipolar are examples that initially come to mind. Not knowing lots of details, going off gut feelings listening to them, Jeffrey through mother at least, was genetically pre-disposed to mental illness. Father possibly as well, but maybe he was just weird. While Mom says he grew up with everything he needed and normal, she's ignorant about the effects of having even just a depressed mother. I bet there was no expression of love in the home whatsoever shown by Dad to either of them. I'm guessing he was largely unavailable. Back then you were a good husband/father if you went to work and provided for the family and that's about it. I imagine the house was void of light and color, personality and laughter.
Those medications are also not prescribed in pregnancy today. So genetics, meds affecting brain development and home environment are quite the trifecta!
Matthew Perry just did a sit down with Diane Sawyer!! I’m so curious to hear what you have to say about it!
When Cold and analytical meets defensive and narcissistic
Mom asked the universe for answers but got no response.
What happened is his parents don't know God and neither did their son Jeffrey.
The universe is a creation.
The Dahmer's worship the creation, not the Creator. Thus the fascination with the most sophisticated creation, flesh.
Old school parents, they don’t understand these points. Because they put food on the table, cloth you, pay for your piano lessons and worry about you, they think that they did everything.
🎯🎯
Am I the only one that hears a weird slight echo with the audio..but only when he talks... 😣
Remembering whether or not you had seizures and not knowing what medication you were given are very different things lol
What about the Darrell Brooks case? Can you read on him?