High End CAR PRICES are CRASHING - My $124,000 Range Rover Sold for a STEAL at Auction!

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  • Опубліковано 5 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 237

  • @BlastingBeaver
    @BlastingBeaver 2 дні тому +58

    Top tip ... DONT buy Land Rovers, they seem to have (a very well known) problem with reliability 🙂

    • @SamslamminCars
      @SamslamminCars 2 дні тому +3

      I warned friends who wanted one. They dumped it in under 2 years & 3 + months in the shop. The wife now drives a 02 Toyota Avalon that cost her only 1 month financing + insurance for that Range Rover; loves it.

    • @daveunbranded
      @daveunbranded 2 дні тому +3

      They are a lease only for sure

    • @WET_EYEGASM
      @WET_EYEGASM 2 дні тому +3

      The V8's are solid for models made under the JLR brand

    • @JOSH-ge4oc
      @JOSH-ge4oc 2 дні тому +3

      They have better reliability than Toyota now and their engines and transmissions don’t fail. 😂😢

    • @ksw501
      @ksw501 День тому +1

      Yup, land rubbish

  • @ace1gl
    @ace1gl 2 дні тому +21

    Range Rovers are notorious for their values dropping like an anvil thrown off a cliff. 7 years from now that car will be under 10k

  • @Ogmuffinman420
    @Ogmuffinman420 2 дні тому +19

    Keep the good content flowing! 🤘

  • @Gus-y5i
    @Gus-y5i День тому +2

    How can someone who is in the car business keep buying all these mistakes? 😂

  • @ArthurJones-v2i
    @ArthurJones-v2i День тому +4

    I’ve noticed that some home builders are reporting a slowdown in new projects. With mortgage rates so high, it seems like demand is finally cooling off a bit, and it’s really starting to affect their business

    • @HectorBailey-zi7du
      @HectorBailey-zi7du День тому

      Yeah, it's no surprise that home builders are feeling the pressure. The costs of materials have been fluctuating, and with fewer buyers able to afford high mortgage payments, there’s definitely a shift happening.

    • @HaroldSimmons-mf3ep
      @HaroldSimmons-mf3ep День тому

      It’s interesting because, for a while, it seemed like the housing market was unstoppable. Now, with inflation and financing issues, even big builders are pulling back on projects

    • @JoshuaWright-h7x
      @JoshuaWright-h7x День тому

      I read that some builders are offering big discounts or incentives just to keep sales moving. That’s a pretty clear sign that they're trying to adapt to the decreased demand.

  • @BriannaMoore-h7l
    @BriannaMoore-h7l 2 дні тому +30

    It's obvious how much effort went into this!

  • @SNEAKERHEADSNEAKERHEAD
    @SNEAKERHEADSNEAKERHEAD 2 дні тому +5

    $60,000 u got that cause 2022 is the last year of that generation. When you buy the last year of that generation you lose a lot of money because everyone wants the redesigned 2023 range rover

  • @johntuttle5396
    @johntuttle5396 День тому +4

    Don't think that some of your "fans" are listening to what you just said. Paraphrasing, " I'm doing what I like to do, and I am very happy," which is why you're doing "the You Tube" thing" - you don't say "do exactly what I do and you'll make a ton of money"! Just watching someone buying cars for $17,500 and selling them for $22,000 over and over again is pretty boring. Not a particularly big fan of high end/supercars (never going to buy one) but you do a good job explaining what you do and why. I'm sure that most of the time you make money selling cars - it is impossible to make money on every sale. You don't go to Vegas to have fun (the casino owners will strongly suggest that you'll have a good time, but they don't even guarantee you that you'll break even in your gambling endeavors) but you enjoy buying ans selling "fun cars". Just remember the number one rule that a certain, different kind of dealer always says, "Never get high on your own supply!" 😄

  • @jfdoherty3448
    @jfdoherty3448 2 дні тому +2

    You’ve become my favorite channel Craig. Lifelong interest in all things automotive. Please keep it up!

  • @Joe-ij7vi
    @Joe-ij7vi 2 дні тому +5

    Great information. Nice to hear the truth. You're video pics are very clear. God bless you and family.

  • @argeldelacruz9545
    @argeldelacruz9545 2 дні тому +7

    Yea I’m hoping it gets back to the good old days with cheaper used cars.

  • @ecashtoenslavement4320
    @ecashtoenslavement4320 2 дні тому +21

    Range Rover has got to be the worst example for anything normal. Those things go for cheaper than a 30 year old Chevy when 10 yrs old.

  • @cmcb7230
    @cmcb7230 День тому +2

    Pro tip don’t use the depreciation of a POS Range Rover as a tool to measure the health of the economy. There will never be a time in human history when a Ranger Rover will retain its value.

  • @sergeyivanov58
    @sergeyivanov58 2 дні тому +2

    Bro, I love watching your videos! Keep doing what you love, you inspire me (probably many other).

  • @ddutsie
    @ddutsie 2 дні тому +8

    How did your HOA not fine you bigly and mandatory prison time for those halloween decorations in your front yard?

  • @JordanHernandez-yv4xi
    @JordanHernandez-yv4xi 2 дні тому +8

    I’ve been an auto dealer for 20 years now. And most people won’t understand how we have to wash our heads with taking a loose 😂 Now I know you don’t talk about the everyday sales that make you $1500-$4000 on other units because people here don’t want to hear you win 😂they want to hear ur struggle. Over all I know you’re doing well and have a great manager that’s eager to learn and step up to make business happen at your previous location. Even your brother entering the car game shows how your success has inspired him to do it as well. Good Job brotha. Keep the ball rolling. I watch ur videos every week and get ideas myself on doing this different myself. Keep up the good work!

    • @LoganPope-cx1tp
      @LoganPope-cx1tp День тому

      Hey Jordan I'm interested in starting my own dealership but don't have any skills yet or the money to do it. How do I start working on it ? Thanks

  • @arcadiushakim3675
    @arcadiushakim3675 День тому +3

    Another great video Craig. One of the few who broke even on a RR in long time. Liked your idea of selling wholesale only, hope we get more content that way.

  • @frederickfernandez1510
    @frederickfernandez1510 2 дні тому +5

    Auctions in FL has very nice cars, great content.

    • @georgeallen7667
      @georgeallen7667 2 дні тому +1

      Yes, they are thoroughly washed, inside and out. Very good.

    • @martylee9035
      @martylee9035 День тому

      Hiding Flood Damage.

  • @BENNETTTAKESALL
    @BENNETTTAKESALL День тому

    The newer ones are significantly more reliable once you repair crossover pipes 2013-2019.5 they run really well. Air shocks will go out if you live in hot weather climate after 40k or 3 years other than that they are pretty solid and they command the road.

  • @billwhitmore8638
    @billwhitmore8638 2 дні тому +1

    Craig so many Haters in comments is you don't like the content DONT WATCH his videos keeps you up dated on not just real life car prices but intrest rates repos an bank an loan content. Keep up great work..

    • @perryelyod4870
      @perryelyod4870 День тому

      Giving constructive criticism, or having a personal dislike for this unfiltered attention seeker is not being a 'hater'. If you can't take the viewpoints of your viewers, good, bad or indifferent, don't post videos for the public. Someone that can't deal with reality, and demands constant praise is a snowflake. Sometimes it's entertaining to watch train wrecks.

  • @frankchamp007
    @frankchamp007 2 дні тому +2

    Great video, love to see those exotic cars this is what it’s all about. Keep it up 👍

  • @AREA_RC-51
    @AREA_RC-51 День тому +1

    Next video: LIFTED GOLFCART PRICES are CRASHING!

  • @Duh_Huh_24
    @Duh_Huh_24 День тому +3

    That is normal depreciation for a range rover. everyone in the car business knows this except you apparently. Oh, a Range Rover tanked in value? Surprising

    • @channell11
      @channell11 18 годин тому

      It's also the last year of that generation.You're going to get hit hardest on those because they look virtually the same as a 2013 and the new generation. You'll be hard pressed to find a 2023 under 100 grand, but 2022s (except for SVs and Autobiographies) are in the 60-70K range all day long

  • @rbfarrell1
    @rbfarrell1 2 дні тому +2

    I knew they were bad, but that was a surprise. I think that Cyber Truck going to be just as bad.

  • @bobmanzi7712
    @bobmanzi7712 2 дні тому +4

    Great stuff thanks

  • @jrs4ex
    @jrs4ex День тому +5

    Having the auctioneer announce $124k MSRP is misleading considering $12k of that amount was the dealers market adjustment.

  • @ltcmoose2001
    @ltcmoose2001 День тому

    Make a video about dealer fees in Florida. You would be surprised just how bad it is for the average guy to avoid fees that you must pay in this state.

  • @chrissiano381
    @chrissiano381 2 дні тому

    Great work Craig.. But for what you lost. To me that is not very much.. Your still the best when it comes to teaching us the in and out of buying and selling cars.

  • @darrellturtleneck9712
    @darrellturtleneck9712 2 дні тому +22

    Your friend lost 50% and isn't whining about it. Maybe you should take notes.

    • @sergeyivanov58
      @sergeyivanov58 2 дні тому +6

      His friend has a job that makes him $. This is Craig's job, he can't keep loosing $. He is extremely positive about it, even though he is loosing $.

    • @aGuyNamedDingus
      @aGuyNamedDingus 2 дні тому

      You must not know what whining is. Sounds like you are just complaining to complain. Go do something of value instead of being a hater online lmao..

    • @aGuyNamedDingus
      @aGuyNamedDingus 2 дні тому +6

      Weird I watched the whole video and didn't hear any whining. You watching the same video or just complaining about Craig again

  • @jamesmyers9285
    @jamesmyers9285 День тому +2

    Those UGLY Black Wheels don't do the Range Rover any favors!

  • @Mar.wanJaniol
    @Mar.wanJaniol 2 дні тому +21

    Can't believe how awesome this is!

  • @dave3657
    @dave3657 2 дні тому +1

    I found out a way to save a lot of time. I just dropped into a dealership, took some pics in front of a vehicle and paid the salesman a few grand.
    Figured it was cheaper that way, and I can show the pics and say I owned it for six months. 😂

  • @AbsoluteCarGuys
    @AbsoluteCarGuys 2 дні тому

    Keep doing what you’re doing. I enjoy the expensive content as well as the cheaper easy flips. Trying to work my way to doing the same thing some day.

  • @8650mack
    @8650mack 2 дні тому +11

    Should be called Bidenphonics not Bidenomics 😂

  • @TheSupervillain316
    @TheSupervillain316 День тому

    Basically you broke even or made a small profit, given that you had the use of the vehicle. Thats not the norm for most. Keep doing what you do, Craig

  • @MoonMan-p6q
    @MoonMan-p6q День тому

    Hey Graig how are you enjoying PC? If you remember me I just moved to PA after living there for 30 years. I bet you can’t drive a mile without seeing a Corvette! Isn’t it crazy?

  • @qitexas2516
    @qitexas2516 День тому

    dealers arent willing to negociate prices that much. they paid more, the cars will sit on the lot longer, but the days of housr of haggeling are not there that much. ill drive mine for a few more years.

  • @garyduquette1784
    @garyduquette1784 2 дні тому +32

    Your hilarious! Your excuse , I drove it for 3 months. You lost money again! Your making videos and are running a streak of loosing money. Take your cyber truck to that auction. Let's see how much you loose on it. Most people can't take loosing money, keep doing it and you won't be able to do it .

    • @rc70ys
      @rc70ys 2 дні тому +5

      You’re !!

    • @garyduquette1784
      @garyduquette1784 2 дні тому +1

      @ yes you’re!

    • @Hello123-b7l
      @Hello123-b7l 2 дні тому +19

      I bet he doesn't mind losing/breaking even on some cars. He doing it for youtube content. same with the cybertruck.

    • @garyduquette1784
      @garyduquette1784 2 дні тому +6

      @@Hello123-b7l I really hope you don't think he's doing it for U Tube content. He's loosing money from making bad decisions. He's like a kid in a candy store when it come to high end exotic cars. And I think he has lost money on almost everyone he buys. He didn't have a market for them at his dealership and he doesn't have the clients he needs to be successful at it now. Look at what his dealership is buying now. 1500.00 to 2500.00 dollar cars. That's where the market is right now, it's just he doesn't want to be classified as a low end car dealer.
      I think Craig is a good guy. He wants to get into a tough market. The cars he wants to be associated with cost a ton of money and also cost alot of money to fix. He would like to make his money being a U Tube celiberty and buy a high end exotic car drive it for awhile sell it and make money. He might make it on U Tube but he sure hasn't proven he know how to buy and sell very expensive cars for a profit.

    • @WET_EYEGASM
      @WET_EYEGASM 2 дні тому +13

      Don't take advice from anyone who can't spell 'LOSE' 😂

  • @mikewieltschnig5230
    @mikewieltschnig5230 2 дні тому +2

    Now you have money for more high mileage cars.

  • @10amm21
    @10amm21 День тому +1

    Trade that cyber truck in or run it at the auction and get a urus or the aston suv. The cyber truck bubble is going to pop soon get out while you can

  • @dailydriven2356
    @dailydriven2356 2 дні тому +1

    Would love to see a current market update video

  • @ronald4life1
    @ronald4life1 2 дні тому +1

    This is why you should always consider Leasing new luxury cars...

    • @channell11
      @channell11 18 годин тому

      That doesn't really save you anything except the hassle of disposing it later. Leasing means you're always paying the steepest decline in depreciation for every car. There's some relief if you can write it off for a business, but leasing is generally always the most expensive (albeit convenient) way to drive a car.

  • @stanmarcusgtv
    @stanmarcusgtv День тому

    FL needs Land and Range Rovers because of all the snow, ice and extreme elevations in the mountains where those housewives live.

  • @FrankLatif
    @FrankLatif 2 дні тому +1

    He almost sharted when you told him 75k 😂😂😂

  • @channell11
    @channell11 18 годин тому

    L405 Range Rovers are cheap now because the next generation is out. You can get a nice 2022 for 60% of the price of the cheapest 2023s.

  • @nycarpenter
    @nycarpenter День тому

    The trick is being smart enough to move your product when the ground is shifting.

  • @frankginese6867
    @frankginese6867 2 дні тому

    Great video keep it up and thank you

  • @esd5516
    @esd5516 2 дні тому +1

    Yup thanks to jo and APAC

  • @eaauto6182
    @eaauto6182 День тому

    Range Rovers, Escalades, benzes, ect. (Status symbol vehicles) all depreciate like iPhones. When the new generation comes out, the previous one isn’t worth shit.

  • @Revoncheap
    @Revoncheap 2 дні тому +2

    Could have been worse.

  • @joaquinmojado
    @joaquinmojado 2 дні тому

    The Lotus is my dream car no other. Never owned a sports car or high end car but always wanted to be that big guy (6 Ft) stepping out of a Lotus. I know you may not respond. How much did the Lotus sell for?

  • @cactuswillable
    @cactuswillable 2 дні тому +1

    I guess you forgot to put it on acv. They must have screwed you just like every auction does to the little guys.

    • @mph5896
      @mph5896 День тому

      He doesn’t talk about them anymore. Wonder what happened 🙃

  • @ctsfiddler
    @ctsfiddler День тому

    What is the tax on 61k in Florida, around 7 percent, add that to the loss.

  • @robertl2227
    @robertl2227 2 дні тому +1

    I get to sit thru a 5 minute Baerskin ad before the video even starts

  • @perfectscotty
    @perfectscotty 2 дні тому +1

    I like the dude you bought that from. Wonder what he bought in its place.

  • @zgdafzgdaf4264
    @zgdafzgdaf4264 День тому

    Reminds me of early 2000 with ,com bust. Similar thing happened to me with a car.

  • @WTF-sh4is
    @WTF-sh4is 2 дні тому

    Your bet is correct Craig, we all love seeing you lose money. Keep up the great content! I’m subscribed and liked the video even though I am a hater troll 😂

  • @sleazytiki
    @sleazytiki 2 дні тому +1

    High end car prices are crashing! And I'm the last guy to find out.😅

  • @Vikturus22
    @Vikturus22 2 дні тому

    1:42 is it wrong that me at 33 Really likes the Cinnamon interior? Normally this colour screams old man but I actually quite like this

  • @drivenautomotive3173
    @drivenautomotive3173 19 годин тому

    So... brand new Range Rovers depreciate a lot?? Who knew?

  • @navado75
    @navado75 День тому +1

    😂 status symbol pos suv. Of course its worthless.

  •  2 дні тому +1

    Could be worse you could have had a e-tron.....

  • @pcguru411
    @pcguru411 2 дні тому

    I think it's typical that you'd buy a car that is depreciating so quickly and by so much. Bad plan, Craig.

  • @Cars-off-the-Wall
    @Cars-off-the-Wall 2 дні тому +1

    Yes, you can say you got a good deal. But why don’t you go back to the basics. Buy a car, fix it, clean it, sell it AND for a profit. Not spend $1600 to drive a Land Rover for 3 months

    • @romeothompson9389
      @romeothompson9389 2 дні тому

      Because he does do that he just don’t post it not everyone is really interested in that

    • @Cars-off-the-Wall
      @Cars-off-the-Wall 2 дні тому

      @ I feel like his channel is changing and that’s a bit of a bummer

  • @jackdelia1014
    @jackdelia1014 День тому

    What did the 2015 porsche gt3 sell for?

  • @joesample1818
    @joesample1818 2 дні тому +1

    That vehicle worth fifty thousand😅

    • @mph5896
      @mph5896 День тому

      He got 61250 for it, so to buyer and seller it’s worth 61250

  • @frankmaggio4328
    @frankmaggio4328 2 дні тому

    You're banging out good content! Welcome to FL. I found your channel a few months ago. I watched your videos to pass the time. Now I really look forward to your videos. Keep up the good content!!!

  • @finned958
    @finned958 2 дні тому +3

    Auctions get the worst prices because dealers need to resell them to regular customers.

  • @mamus4
    @mamus4 День тому

    So you see , Aston Martin puts yellow 60 dollar stripes on the seats and calipers and clown like this buy them, than lose 40k a year, only in America.

  • @shoobidyboop8634
    @shoobidyboop8634 2 дні тому +1

    12:16 "Don't have to insure them."
    What?

  • @peterlaskiewicz8252
    @peterlaskiewicz8252 2 дні тому +4

    Most of us are better off than 4 years ago. We’re all better off being able to vote again.

    • @martylee9035
      @martylee9035 День тому

      I know, and this jackasz probably voted for Trump both times!!

  • @LilyHarris-l3y
    @LilyHarris-l3y День тому +21

    I'm favoured financially with Bitcoin ETFs approval, Thank you buddy.$28,600 weekly profit regardless of how bad it gets on the economy.

    • @CaneRobert
      @CaneRobert День тому

      Same here., I strongly agree that the Bitcoin ETFs approval will be greatly life opportunity for us, with my current portfolio of $102,500 from my investments with my personal financial advisor Steve Miley I totally agree with you😊

    • @Luatinh303-m9y
      @Luatinh303-m9y День тому

      YES!!! That's exactly his name (Steve Miley) so many people have recommended highly about him and am just starting with him from Brisbane Australia...🇦🇺

    • @chigbochinenye2600
      @chigbochinenye2600 День тому

      He's my family's personal Broker and also a personal Broker to many family's in the United states, he is licensed and a FINRA AGENT in the United States.

    • @PattyEdge-w7b
      @PattyEdge-w7b День тому

      Steve Miley has really set the standard for others to follow, we love him in Canada🇨🇦as he has been really helpful and changed lots of life's

    • @ElizabethSerah-i1g
      @ElizabethSerah-i1g День тому

      The very first time we tried, we invested $1000 and after a week, we received 4500. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.

  • @Steve-cw1zo
    @Steve-cw1zo 2 дні тому +1

    Leasing is the way to go if you’re looking to drive expensive luxury vehicles. Never have to worry about depreciation or an unexpected accident which would generate a car fax.

  • @victormejia512
    @victormejia512 День тому

    Cyber trucks what are prices in auction the hype over

  • @autoadvisor5221
    @autoadvisor5221 2 дні тому +5

    Where else in the world can you drive a Range Rover for $500 a month? Buddy, that’s a W in my book💪

    • @jamesireland9188
      @jamesireland9188 2 дні тому

      Not really he was talking shit in comment section he was going to be making money that's not making money. Not a really good business practice lmao

    • @georgeallen7667
      @georgeallen7667 2 дні тому +1

      You are the perfect customer that Vegas wants.

  • @KellerCt
    @KellerCt 21 годину тому

    120 to 61 and you still overpaid.

  • @s2kroma303
    @s2kroma303 День тому

    Why are you surprised on range rover prices?! All luxury cars are loosing lots of its value in the first 3 years.

  • @danbob1650
    @danbob1650 День тому

    $533 month not bad 7 yrs old carmy run lowest $123

  • @TwitchIlluminati
    @TwitchIlluminati День тому

    History Range Rovers do not ever hold their value

  • @jamesireland9188
    @jamesireland9188 2 дні тому

    Was debating with someone in comment section that you would make money.

  • @robertbelardo7087
    @robertbelardo7087 День тому

    I have never seen a video of your where you made a profit

  • @kirkhilles523
    @kirkhilles523 День тому

    I dunno, man, this is feeling too "click baity" for me. What would normally be a single video of selling your Landrover the entire process and showing your $1,500 loss is now 2 videos posting about that $124,000 value... which if I'm remembering correctly is AFTER market adjustments so YOU did not pay that and it's highly deceptive when you told the Auction House that it was that MSRP because that was not true. Would it have been the same bid if they had known it was $105k or whatever the true MSRP is? Dunno.
    Anyway, just my opinion. I'll still be watching future videos :)

  • @joesample1818
    @joesample1818 2 дні тому

    If you were a buddy, you would have just took it to the cell for your friend.And soldier form instead of trying to make money on it😢

  • @brianhavey
    @brianhavey День тому

    Gift box? Whats in the gift box and why?

  • @gilbertrodriguez3276
    @gilbertrodriguez3276 2 дні тому +1

    Um when are we gonna see the new big bird and your flipping to get a lambo or gwagon or a aston martin or an porsha oh when are we gonna get a new tour of your new car dealership lots we are waiting patiently

  • @captainbeyond4350
    @captainbeyond4350 2 дні тому +2

    Junk Rover.

  • @JohnRusatsky
    @JohnRusatsky День тому

    Always buying junk and losing money

  • @aaronbritt2025
    @aaronbritt2025 День тому

    This video alone will make you more than $1600, so you made money on it.

  • @kevinschlosberg7124
    @kevinschlosberg7124 7 годин тому

    I don’t understand how you continue to exist, every time I look at one of these videos you are losing money on a car trade, how do you do it?

  • @reallyemptypockets6509
    @reallyemptypockets6509 2 дні тому

    Time to get a LC500🧠

  • @peterkrishchuk1517
    @peterkrishchuk1517 2 дні тому

    Did you fix the Ferrari yet?

  • @AustinBroussard
    @AustinBroussard День тому

    How many times can he make the same point in one video?

  • @keytothegate68
    @keytothegate68 2 дні тому

    Ok so the car was new 124000 but somehow you paid 35.000 for it right? And there was something wrong with it but that was nothing...

  • @tomwalker9836
    @tomwalker9836 2 дні тому

    Yeah Craig, you make a lot of money breaking even.

  • @shawnm6621
    @shawnm6621 День тому +1

    Elections have consequences, let's see if the public has learned anything or are we going to continue down the path of non business people running the economy.

    • @johnharper5437
      @johnharper5437 День тому

      Donald has had multiple bankruptcies and is in debt to cities across the nation for his rallies. If I know one thing, that’s the kind of person I want running my country.

    • @douglascarpenter5433
      @douglascarpenter5433 День тому

      ​@@johnharper5437did you say running or ruining it!

  • @kris_5
    @kris_5 День тому

    Please look up the definition of the word "literally". Thank you.

  • @jon-ie4li
    @jon-ie4li 2 дні тому

    That car new now would be over 200k.

  • @TProphet
    @TProphet День тому

    Craig, it's your channel. You can make whatever content you want. I really love your content about cars. But we'll never agree on politics, and I watch a car channel to get away from politics. If you want to do politics, why not start a political channel (to which I won't subscribe) and then everyone will be happy?

  • @robertbriggs2674
    @robertbriggs2674 День тому +1

    Biden-economics.

  • @AverageJoeandaMustang
    @AverageJoeandaMustang 2 дні тому +2

    I fast forwarded through 95% of the video BS looking at cars noone can afford or wants to see. Just curious what you were gonna lose.

    • @FlyingWheels
      @FlyingWheels  2 дні тому +3

      Thanks for watching!

    • @Noname77331
      @Noname77331 2 дні тому +1

      That’s why your average Joe .

    • @mph5896
      @mph5896 День тому

      He has another video with his brother Adam on it. Much more entertaining seeing Adam buying the cheap stuff and building a business. It many videos being posted there though