The problem with calvinistic emphasis is that they erect a straw man argument and go after that argument which is a caricature and misrepresentation, and then they claimed victory over the straw man argument.. They don't see that..but listen closely to the regurgitation that they spew.. It's fake news..
@@berndtherrenvolk1951 here's the problem..the talking points argumentation that calvinist people bring oftentimes is not really conducive nor the groundwork for us to have a discussion...
@@rauldelarosa2768hat's true. But that fault is not a peculiar calvinist distinctive, as anti-calvinists can and do get every bit as acerbic and juvenile on the matter. The debate is too often a horrible landscape filled with arrogance, disobedience, and a lack of charity. It's pathetic and embarrassing for Christians.
@@johnhorton356 let me ask you this. Jeremiah 17:9 states, 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?' Romans 3:14 states that the 'mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.' How do you believe in Him with a deceitful and wicked heart, and confess with the mouth that is full of cursing and bitterness?
I’m saying this in love just tryin to tell you where he’s coming from. It is a free gift but to say that you chose god is saying that you, being totally wicked and evil down to your core, made the good decision to follow Christ so you would be saying that there is still some good in you that would seek after god hope that helped much love brother/sister
@@joshuagaddis1779 everybody in their lifetime must answer if they believe or don't believe , accept or reject. Is there merit to picking a green car over a blue car? "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: - Deuteronomy 30:19 . I choose to have faith in what is said, I choose life.
@@chooser8457 Deuteronomy 30:6 : And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, SO THAT you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. God acts first. Also, Moses was literally telling people to follow the law to live. Is that what you really want to be quoting?
@@id744 Just using an OT verse to illustrate choice. Yes, God makes the first move. "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."- John 12:32 . Our salvation today depends on our belief or unbelief choice of answer to 1Cor15:1-4, to forgive our sins, the gospel that saves. Can "It was preordained" be the reason for presence at the Great White Throne Judgment.? Don't think so.
@@chooser8457 I agree brother all reformed theology is, is explaining how salvation happens from a Birds Eye view in this life yes we choose, but we choose because he chose first it’s explaining how it happens
@@JakeHageman Ephesians 2 states that faith is a gift from God. How can you put your faith in Christ if you have no faith to begin with? Where do we get our faith if not from God?
Faith is a work ...of God. The Bible clearly tells us that those in the flesh cannot please God. And without faith, it is impossible to please Him. So those who are in the flesh cannot produce saving faith in and of themselves.
It AMAZES me how violent and hateful some "believers" become when you question their good works, piety and free-will. Saying that God is supremely sovereign and chooses who He will save = a doctrine from the devil. But saying I made the right decision and God was so pleased with me that He chose me! I used my awesome free-will (unencumbered by sin mind you) to rightly choose to believe = the most beautiful doctrine known to man. There's something wrong with that. Pride is a heck of a thing, even for believers.
It's not pride. Throughout the entire Bible, the main theme is, repent, turn to me, have faith in me, and then I will heal you and save you. Yes, there are some passages that speak more to God's sovereign will, but there are many, many more passages that speak to are human freedom to choose to have faith and turn to God or not. Bottom line: Calvinism is an attack on the absolute goodness and righteousness of God. It turns people into robots and God into a monster that wills children to be tortured and damn's people to hell before they've done anything right or wrong, all for his sick glory. That's not the God of the Bible, and it's not the God I worship. That's why I will always push back against my calvinist brothers who are so confused in this matter.
@staza1 and there's the rub, you have a limited view of God my friend. He surely doesn't need YOU (or anyone for that matter) to get Him off the hook for however He decides to deal with people. Also, I don't think you understand Calvinism because the Calvinist believes that we are moral agents who have a free will, BUT that will is bound by our nature (Ephesians 2 to see what our nature is prior to regeneration). Your view has such a lofty opinion of man's free will that your whole doctrine and theology revolves around this notion of free-will (that is not tainted by the sin nature); even God's character--in a way--is subject to how it responds or reacts toward man's free-will. You say He's unloving in my view because He chose to save me even when I had no desire to be saved (that sounds like agape love to me).
@@staza1Arminianism isn't any better. It turns God into a monster who gave people the ability to take a test He knew before He created them they would fail at and will punish them forever for it. Your two choices are "Dad says he's going to beat us relentlessly when he comes back if we don't solve this puzzle. We have no idea how to solve this puzzle and we have no experience solving puzzles but at least he's giving us free will to choose to solve it." Vs "Dad's picked favorites since before we were born so he already solved the puzzle for his favorites and there's no way of knowing who those are because he hid the puzzles and won't even let us work on them." It's really only a question of whether you want a dad who's going to beat you if you screw up or one who decided before you were born whether or not He'd beat you.
I've heard numerous Calvinists say, "We should just be glad that God chose to save ANY of us." Easy to say when you're one of the elect! The reason this position is prideful isn't because you're chosen. It's because your idea of "good news" is "The rest of you may be tortured for eternity for something you have no control over, but at least He chose ME!"
I guess you don’t believe in hell cause the non Calvinist view would still not change the last point. Cause all land where the gospel doesn’t touch will go to hell for idolatry and not knowing Christ. Thing which I’m theory is out of their control a man gets to know Christ but his parents die before his conversion if he only had known Christ earlier. In the end no one has control either by election or providence you are dependent of forces beyond yourself are essential to escape hell
The irony is, no Calvinists were chosen to be saved What they don’t realize is their belief system parallels that of Roman Catholicism, lordshippers and legalists. Now if we think about the wide gate vs the narrow gate, they parallel a denomination that has over 1 billion people… and they think they are on the narrow path 🤦♂️
@@EmJayTM here is what Calvinists believe when they are ultimately painted into a corner: faith is a work. Calvinism is also basically Roman Catholicism, and it’s funny most of them don’t even know this. There are over 1 billion of you who hold the save salvation belief.. and they think they are on the narrow path that few take… lol
@@Brii.Z lol you literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Insane. Also the narrow path is belief in Christ. And His children will Number the sands of the shore and stars of the sky, so yeah, there’s billions that will be saved. You’re confused lol.
It’s best to be a part of the Lords church, church of Christ, where only scripture is use for all instructions, teachings , sound doctrine where man does not add to or take away during teachings. Man is the author of confusion, not God.
Calvinists don't know what non calvinists believe. They only know what celebrity calvinists tell them non calvinist believe. This is a great example. Scriptural authority is why I reject calvinism.
@3rksum yeah, its unfortunate. Calvinists have a straw man idea of their theological opponents' position. They use double talk to rationalize the contradictions in calvinism and then say the non calvinist just doesn't understand calvinism when those contradictions are pointed out.
@ShepherdMinistry yeah, calvinists seem to convert Christians into calvinism. Christians don't typically start out calvinists. I'd say that most calvinists are not up front with the Christian they are trying to convince. They say things like "we believe God is sovereign" or "we believe man is sinful" and the non calvinist agrees(like every other christian would) and assumes that's calvinism. If the calvinist just said "we believe every sinful thought action and deed was divinely decreed to take place in eternity past and man is born unable to receive the free gift of salvation unless they are first effectually caused to be regenerated" then the non calvinist likely wouldn't consider calvinism as a tenable option.
@@coryalbright9798 Before we go into your other false accusations, do you take back your initial posts? If most were Arminians then they would be representing Arminians.
@@DrDoerk, my reply was to the person above, who seemed ecstatic that Dr. Leighton Flowers actually responded to this video. I deleted my comment, so if you don’t mind, please delete your reply to me.
Already saw that with James White..and of course the inability to stick with any text consistently was very telling..a bunch of appeals to emotion,arguments from incredulity and projection by attacking his presuppositions as if you don’t yourself have presuppositions…funny how you didn’t even logically respond to this video
The real problem with Calvinism is that it states that God arbitrarily gives grace to some and not to others, meaning that salvation was not even offered to them. That is a massive perversion and is not what Scripture teaches.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
@@goosieschmoo8239 You left out the next verse which clears up how the Father draws someone to him: It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. John 6:45 KJV So how are we drawn to the Father? By hearing his word. So everybody who hears about God is drawn to the Father and offered the gift of salvation if you choose to accept it.
@@jhgolf25 Hey pal, what part of you can't come to Christ unless the Father draws you to His Son do you not understand? What part of Those whom which are drawn by the Father WILL BE SAVED do you not understand? and clearly not everyone is going to be saved so I guess logically speaking here those folks in hell weren't drawn to His Son.
@@goosieschmoo8239 Bc they didn't choose to hear God's word. That's why the bible talks about those whose ears are waxed closed and their eyes have scales so they will not believe the truth and be drawn to God. Judging by your tone I get the sense you don't have a heart for God and to be your brother's keeper to ensure you are adding to God's kingdom. You seem treat the Kingdom of heaven like some exclusive club that only some are invited. Jesus made it clear that those that ask will receive and those that knock He will open unto them. A true belief in God and desire to be saved will lead God to see the good work that has been done unto a believer thru. We have assurance in our salvation, promised by God.
@@jhgolf25 judging by your constant desire to rob God of His glory and declare that man can take credit for his salvation speaks volumes. Salvation is 100% from God and not from man. I gaurentee no one prays "thank you, Lord, for the choice that I made to be saved that I was smart enough to make."
It’s not a strawman when what he’s saying is true though lol. That’s all I hear anti reformed people saying. Come up with a different argument for free will and free choice.
@@KnightFelimple. What is elect/chosen/election mean when used in the bible? Biblically. It means, for a reason. It does not mean chosen to be saved (before the foundation of the world) God choses people to serve him for a purpose. The isrealites were chosen to bring about Christ, to make God known to all the nations of the world and be a blessings through that. Election in the calvinist way is that way because total depravity demands it by logical deduction, not from scripture. It's like the word elohim. People think it means just God. But it has a broader definition than that as something like, all non-phyaical entities including God, angels, demons, and disembodied dead people.
@@LordBlk that’s not what elect means but okay. The Bible is full with man’s love for sin and their inability to please God unless God grants them grace and repentance. Romans 8:5-8 “For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” Everyone is in the flesh unless they have been United in to Christ. Is faith and repentance pleasing to God?
@@KnightFel very calvinist of you. So unless you go and look up the word and analyze its use, you don't know what scripture says on it. Election isn't to salvation. It's to service. Calvinism teaches it is, but that's not biblical. You have to go and look it up.
@@LordBlk No, you’re making the assertion. You prove it. No one has ever thought that election is unto service. Also, seems like I just get crickets from you when I asked you if faith and repentance are pleasing to God. 🦗
I am a 4 point Calvinist but in my forty years of Christian experience some of the most intellectually prideful people I have ever met were Calvinists, if one truly believes the tenets then it should lead them to Humility,
There are thousands of 4 point Calvinists, Who hold to most points but not limited atonement, Who defines what a Calvinist is, Do you have to practice and believe every thing, Such as Infant Baptism A-millennialism killing heretics,, Certainly a person can go to any theological system and believe certain parts they believe are true and reject other parts they believe disagree with Scripture, The cry of the Reformation was Sola scripture not Sola Calvin nor Sola Westminster confession, many teachers at Dallas seminary Moody Multnomah Wheaton Biola are what can be classified as 4 points Calvinists to say otherwise is untrue,
I would recommend you check out channels that try to debunk Calvinism and see how hateful they are. It goes both ways. I used to be an Arminian. I will say, Calvinism, from my experience, gets hated on the most.
Every Christian believes in election and believes they are elect. If you believe in Christ Jesus you’re elect. It’s not possible unless your heart of stone is removed and it replaced with a heart of flesh. You’re SUPPOSED to know you’re the elect and have eternal life. Read John and 1 John. You’re supposed to rejoice in salvation and boast in the LORD. The people saying that one that claims they are elect and are saved are prideful are being sinful and denying God’s Word.
@@KnightFel Sir you are interpreting Sacred Scripture incorrectly. Worse yet, the very idea of sola scriptura means you also have to profess that scripture is perfectly clear, when in terms of predestination, it is not. I choose to trust the interpretation of Christ’s Church, which preaches that God predestines no one to hell, opposed to Calvin’s interpretation completely divorced from that Church safeguarded by the Holy Spirit.
@@arsenicrice9990 God isn’t the author of confusion. He is perfectly clear. You just hate the sovereignty of God. Scripture is perfectly clear that God predestines His people unto salvation. You rely on man’s tradition even when it contradicts scripture or is not backed up by scripture. You believe your fallible mind can’t understand infallible scripture, but some how your same fallible mind can understand the “infallible” interpretation of scripture by your church. Absolutely absurd. Btw, Calvin didn’t invent predestination nor did he write much about it. Luther wrote WAY more on predestination than Calvin did. And it was Augustine who first explained it in the way the reformers understand it. Do you believe God already knew from the foundations of the world who will believe and who will not? Are you an open theist?
@@KnightFel I like your attempts to straw man me by saying if I don’t profess God to be a malicious author of sin, I must be an open theist. Hope you don’t mind the same treatment. I agree He is not the author of confusion, but Christ didn’t come and write a book about His salvation of the world. He founded a Church and safeguarded it with the Holy Spirit. Through the Sacred Tradition of the infallibly protected Church, God gave us the canonized Bible. Cut your self off from the vine of Christ in the Church, and you are nothing but fallible man, interpreting Scripture to fit your life and beliefs, rather than force yourself to conform to God’s will. Your obsession with God’s sovereignty and refusal to believe He allows us to work against His will decimates His love and mercy in your false gospel.
@@KnightFelexcept Calvinism is the confusing doctrine that clearly denies Scripture. And the endless argument about it makes Satan smile because it prevents people like you from loving your brother. Also, by denying church authority, you are denying Scripture because Scripture says that the Spirit will lead the church into all truth.
Ephesians 1:13. Paul states: 1) first a man hears the Gospel, 2) then he believes the Gospel, 3) then he is saved in that order. God does all the saving through the Power of the written or heard Gospel - IF you believe that truth. If you do, He regenerates you and gives you the Spirit of the Lord and eternal life. If a man does not believe God has provided this free gift of grace offered through His Son, God will judge him for His unbelief with everlasting punishment. That's fundamentally why Calvinism is false. God doesn't choose to save individual people, He chooses to save a class of people - WHOSOEVER will believe His Gospel. And, He doesn't cast away people for no reason, before they're even born (that makes God a monster). He punishes people who willingly refuse His gift of grace, and continue on in their sin. Mark 16:16 *_Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned._*
No one’s saying you’re saved before you believe. If the verse said, “In him, when you heard the gospel and believed, you were chosen” then you’d have a solid refutation of Calvinism.
@@hallboy5 You're unfamiliar with Calvinism and the T in TULIP, which teaches one must receive salvation (regeneration, eternal life) from the Father first, in order to even be able to believe in the Son, which is the exact opposite of the order of the gift of salvation. The Sacrifice of Jesus Christ plays no part in Calvin's doctrine of salvation, that's why it's another Gospel. You should study it, and its companion, the unbiblical burden of Reformed Lordship salvation, so you can help people escape it.
@@SSNBN777 Friend, there are clearly many commenters on this video that are unfamiliar with Calvinism. I promise you I'm not one of them. The doctrines of grace are something I've put a lot of thought and effort into understanding and have come to love God more thanks to them! What do you think the T in TULIP stands for? It stands for Total Depravity, which doesn't teach that one needs to receive salvation from the Father before they can believe. That isn't even close! At best, you're describing a mutilated version of U (Unconditional Election) combined with I (Irresistible Grace). Calvinism does not teach that one must receive salvation or regeneration or eternal life from the Father in order to believe in the Son. Here's what Calvinism does teach: You must be chosen/elected by the Father, atoned for/purchased by the Son, and regenerated/rebirthed by the Spirit in order to believe. None of those is the act of salvation/justification. Being saved/justified happens when you believe! If you think the controversy around Calvinism stems from arguing about whether faith or justification come first, you are mistaken. The controversy stems from arguing about whether faith or regeneration come first, and regeneration is not the same thing as justification. For more resources, I'd urge you to look into the chapters on soteriology in Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, or listen to various teachings by John Piper or R.C. Sproul. All great theologians that, I think, do an excellent job at faithfully explaining and exegeting Biblical soteriology. God bless!
@@SSNBN777 1) 'He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.' - John 8:47 (KJV) 2) Since John 8:47 is a fact, how can someone who is not of God heareth the word of God to even believe the word of God in the first place? 3) I am glad that I am saved before I even heard the gospel, for Eternal Salvation is 100% of Christ! It is not because of me, but because of Him!
what???? how can you believe that someone who made the Voluntary choice to pursue God is Prideful?!?!??? If a Calvinist views this to Exercise Faith to Voluntarily to pursue God as Prideful, this means that the Calvinist's Discernment is off. aka Perverted Reasoning. that's not Prideful to go to God. a Man who exercised Free Will to pursue God is not Arrogance, it's called Humility. How is it possible that a Calvinist does not understand the Correct Definition of what Humility VS Prideful is????!!! 🤦♂️
Well let’s find out. Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way? Are you implying you humbled yourself and the unbeliever did not?
@@ShepherdMinistry The Calvinist generally believes God ordains by divine decree what man's will is, but man still acts according to his will. Not "Free Will", in the sense of Libertarian Free Will, but man is still responsible for their own actions, because they are the ones committing the acts. In this sense, man humbles himself *and* God decreed it. It is a both/and, not an either/or. If you disagree with that, then I am completely unfamiliar with the kind of Calvinism you are presenting. It is not the Calvinism I read from John Calvin.
Of course there is. Do you trust in Christ alone as He is presented in scripture? You’re elect. You won’t believe in Christ unless your heart of stone is removed and given a heart of flesh. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
@@JonathanGrandt wrong. No idea what you’re talking about. If you believe in Jesus Christ as presented in the scripture you’re elect. It’s really not difficult to understand.
As a Christian, I simply believe the Bible. The Bible says that we're all sinners who've fallen short of God's glory and are therefore condemned to hell. But, God loves us so much that he sent his son to die in our place and on our behalf. Any who believe in him have eternal life and are not condemned while any who do not believe are condemned already. Calvinists and others make this so confusing and convoluted. It's really not. I sinned against God. Jesus paid for my sins. I believe in him for eternal life.
False dichotomy. Arminianism is a branch off Calvinism. Both believe and affirm prevenient grace in order to be saved. They are not very different. Both have a skewed understanding of election. Each use of the word "elect" and "chosen" have a context that differs. Be aware of that!
Matthew 24:31 [31] And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is about salvation.
Jesus died for everyone; for the whole world. That is a fact. 1 John 2:1 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
@@ShepherdMinistry In what way does God draw us then? I don’t see one exact way anywhere in the Bible. To some he come in dreams, others just in a whisper or in visions and so on. God comes to everyone encouraging them to repent. I ask you to study the parable of the marriage feast, there you see the king orders the servants as such: Matthew 22:8 8The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good.”’ Likewise God invites everyone on earth to be apart of his family just as the king invited all whom his servants found in the streets.
@@ShepherdMinistry I accepted God because I feared Him. God showed me a dream of me burning and told me to get baptized and I did. Woke me up instantly.
@@buddy_132 Praise God for this dream and for your salvation! So, you’re saying you chose God because you were more fearful than the unbeliever and because God showed you a dream that He may have not done for the unbeliever?
Jesus said whoever believes in Me shall not perish but have eternal life. Seems to me He's giving you a choice which you have to place your faith or not place your faith in Jesus Christ. This is why John 3:16 through 18 it's very clear. So it is not prideful if you accept or reject Christ is prideful When You Believe you yourself were chosen and your neighbor wasn't.
But I was chosen. And my household wasn't. And no one can come to the Father unless the Father calls and the son chooses. So if you're going to be umbilical stop judging those who want to be.
@@brendanbrady1291 yet John 6: 29-40 tell you both the works and will of God.. neither of which says anything about *chosen*. It says believe both times. One thing I’ve gathered from your heretical crowd in addition to you believing faith is a work, is it seems you both deny dispensations (even though the very word is mentioned 4 times in scripture), and you believe all the Bible is written for you All of the Bible is for us, but not all the Bible is about us. Case and and point: Ephesians 1-13 - Calvinist crowd uses verses 1-12 but ignores verse 13 which is the answer to thr question verses 1-12 ask, and the answer is believe after hearing the gospel. John 6-17 - more sets of passages Calvinists use to justify there belief but this entire set of scripture Jesus is speaking to his disciples. This is a dispensations issue Matthew 13 - again Jesus is speaking to Jews not gentiles. Those of you really need to learn to rightly divide the word of truth. Understand dispensations. Learn to take the whole chapter into context (and the book for that matter) and never leave our verses that disprove your belief
So what you are saying is God for no apparent reason chose to allow one wretched person to repent but not another. So you believe when he creates everyone’s soul He plays “Eeny, meeny, miny, moe” and lucky you got picked! How wonderful for you! But poor Willie next to you was determined to go to Hell. Well then don’t worry about praying for him cause God says not this guy, just because He felt like it. But wait what about the following verse? 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” And this verse is referring to everyone because if he was just talking about the “elect” it wouldn’t make sense because the elect cannot perish. This verse seems to indicate that He is not WILLING that any should perish! But I thought according to you that God determines by HIS will that he already wills arbitrarily those He wants to perish? I can watch and tape a football game and allow my friend to watch the taped game. He does not know the outcome but I do so I choose the winning team that wins because I know the outcome, but I did not determine it, I just allowed it to play itself out. Brother your attempt at defending Calvinism is weak, not well thought out, and a bit childish. Calvinistic interpretation of the Character of God, makes God out to be an unloving God.
"That which is good will be called evil and that which is evil will be called good"...so naturally these days it will be called evil to think that turning from our wickedness to serve our Creator rather than ourselves will be defined as "prideful".
Well, not exactly that. But thinking you are saved because you chose God by yourself and that you are a christian because of your choice and not His choice is prideful. There's a reason Paul emphasizes this: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Even your faith is a gift from God. Now that you are saved, you can choose to obey him in humbleness knowing He was the one who loved you first while you were an enemy of God.
If you are unconditionally chosen then why do we see so many families that are all saved. Why not just pick one of the kids, why often nearly all the kids. It’s almost like either God coincidentally chooses entire families or God doesn’t unconditionally choose people and choose based on circumstances or more likely that the kids learn about God from their parents devotion to God and that is a major part of what leads them to choose to believe so then they may be saved and have life So essentially either you and your family got really lucky with unconditional election or maybe election is conditional on something to do with us. This is just one of the logical inconsistencies I struggle with when it comes to Calvinism
Exactly!!! I love John MacArthur's quote where he says, I'm a calvinist because the bible didn't give me a choice. I was more in the arminian camp before I was born again. I grew thinking I was saved because I said the prayer and got baptized and I made the choices and did the things, all while living like everyone else. But then, I was born again at 35 and knew that it was all from God. Thank you, Father, for opening my eyes and ears, and changing my heart and mind to Your Truth. All glory to God alone. I get none.
Same, grew up in church, and my youth pastor told me I was saved, so I just got in line for the dunk tank. But right about 35 my eyes were really opened, and it was like night/day difference. I don’t know what I am, I don’t care about those terms, but I’m saved. 😆
@@StaceeMassey hi Stacee, it really is poor reading comprehension that leads to Calvinism. Especially at the major foundational scriptures, Romans 9, Ephesians 1 and John 6.
When believers make out their gospel that Jesus chose them over Christ died and was resurrected, that's where I refuse their doctrine. Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he took Paul's approach: I preach Christ crucified. Second, I'm not a Calvinist. I don't follow a man's belief, I follow Christ. Third, it's about Christ crucified, not "God chose me." If God chose some for salvation, He chose the rest for hell. Not the God I know and worship. He sent His Sin so NO ONE should perish and commands ALL to repentance.
John 3:16, last 3 words didn't say get eternal salvation, but 'have eternal salvation.' If you say whosoever work have a job or jobs, you are implying that you already have a job. If you say that I have this at home, you are implying that you are already in possession of this at home. Therefore, the believers are already in possession of eternal life. You do not believe in order to get eteranl life, but believing in Christ shows the work of God in you (John 6:29), and gave you the power to believe in Him. As for John 12:32, one would have to keep reading. John 12:37 asked, ' Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?' This passage is also mentioned in Isiah 53:1, and the second question reveal the answer to the first. Who hath believed our report? Answer: To whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed implying that those are the people who are capable of believing the report, the ones that the LORD revealed it to. And since not everyone believes in Him, it shows that the LORD didn't reveal Himself to the unbelievers, or at least not yet. Therefore, the LORD didn't drawn all men, in terms of everyone of this world, but all of the elect family of God. PS: Not a Calvinist, but I consider myself a Primitive Baptist.
@@janeyue7491 If you believe I have a collection of star wars figures you can have them. Does that mean you have them already? no, it's conditional on the belief that I have them.
@@alfrael6424 the dictionary definition of 'have' is 'possess, own, or hold:' Therefore, when the scripture says.. 'whosoever believeth... have everlasting life,' in that context, it means the believers of Jesus Christ are already in possession of eternal life. This fix the scripture because it doesn't have the word 'can' in front of the word 'have' but whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life, but if you add the word 'can have everlasting life,' since you mentioned, 'you can have them,' adding the word can in front of have, than you are unto something.
Let's try another way of explanation. Let's read John 3:18 and see if the tenses matches with John 3:16. John 3:18 states, ' He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.; Notice the tenses here 'but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY!' Already is a past tense, so if we go back to John 3:16, it seems that God already separated the believers and the nonbelievers. So, if you put it into content (since John 3:18 is a nearby verses), it must match with the tenses. John 3:16 couldn't possibly be an invitation for non-believers to believe in Christ because in V18, it mentioned that the nonbelievers are condemned 'already' implying that God has already separated the believers from the nonbelievers. Therefore, John 3:16 is not an invitation for nonbelievers to believe in Him, but it is an assurance that the believers are already in possession of everlasting life. So grammatically, since John 3:18 uses the word 'already' which is past tense, it would only make sense that John 3:16 is not a future tense, as in the believers of Christ 'can have' or 'will have' as you have previously mentioned, but 'have eternal life,' which means that they are already in possession of Eternal Salvation. Therefore, you do not get to heaven because you believe in Him, but the fact that you believe in Him is one of the evidence that you are already a child of God who is already in possession of eternal life.
“Whosoever” is not in the Greek manuscripts for John 3:16……it actually says ‘the Son, the only begotten one he gave that everyone believing in him not should perish but might have life eternal.”….. so the real question is why do people like you who stand on John 3:16 don’t even know what it actually says ?
Yes the words elect, chosen, and predestination appear in the Bible. But we must examine what the use of such words are in the context they are written. Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." The calvinist reads this and think it's saying he chose/predestined all individual who will be saved before the foundation of the world. The arminian thinks God picked for salvation those individuals whom he knew would have faith. The Bible believer carefully examines this verse within its context, and realizes this was God's plan centered on Christ. He chose all those who will ever place their faith in his son. It tells us what we are chosen for=to be holy and blameless. Ephesians 1:4 is not about how someone comes to be in Christ, but it's about the destination of all who will be in Christ through faith. Ephesians 1:13 "and you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised holy spirit." -These new converts were not IN HIM until they believed, but once they believed they are now among those IN CHRIST who have a new glorious destiny. The calvinist and arminian takes the focus off Christ and puts it on man. Ephesians 1:9 "he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ"
@@ks23770 ok i will do that, but i need to read through it first. Please read through ALL of ephesians, so that you will see the theme which is about the wonderful blessings in Christ. Ephesians 1:3 "How we praise God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessings in the heavenly realms because we belong to Christ." Ephesians 3:8 "...I was chosen for this special joy of telling the gentiles about the endless treasures available to them IN CHRIST. " God had decided before the world was created to bless all those who will ever belong to his son. Ephesians 3:11 "This was the plan from all eternity, and it has now been carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 16:7 Salute andronicus and junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles who also were IN CHRIST before me. Paul was not in Christ before he was saved.
@@jameshoyt3692 I love Ephesians! And I see one of the issues. Calvinists don't believe someone is presaved or whatever you're trying to infer. Salvation of a purpose, though predestined, still happens within time. Hope that helps!
@@ks23770 oh ok. I get what you're saying. You believe we were predestined to be in him before the foundation of the world. But then saved and put in him in time. There's at least two problems with that brother. That's not what it says number one. And secondly, you are saying that outside of Christ you were sealed, secured, and had a glorious future.
You've fundamentally misunderstood the non-calvanist (armenian) view of election. Armenians do not believe "God chose us because he knew we would choose him" that is actually often what Armenians often think that calvanists believe (which is also false). Its a straw man that both armenians and calvanists use for the other, but as far as i can tell, no one actually holds this position. Armenians instead believe that God chose everyone in the whole world through grace so that everyone could choose to believe in him by faith. John 3:16 plain and simple. You can disagree with this view, but please be humble and be sure not to misrepresent the other view you disagree with. God bless!
I don’t want to debate, but I have heard Arminians articulate exactly what I said in the video. I understand election based on foreseen faith is not the only perspective, but it’s not true that no one holds it. Arminians are not the only non-Calvinistic group. And I’ve had this exact conversation with people.
@ConversationswithaCalvinist fair enough brother no need to debate. I'm just asking that you might consider being more generous with how you listen and portray others views. I understand the video was mostly exaggerated and satirical and I'm not offended. In fact I found it funny. But just be careful, the character in your video representing the opposing view was calling your views prideful, which is wrong, but making a video like this to call that kind of person out might not be the most humble either. I might be wrong I don't think at all that your intentions are bad, I'm just saying to be careful and try to be generous and gracious to people like that. Don't fall into the temptation to be spiteful in return. Good videos. Keep it up!
Thanks for that thought bro, and I appreciate the kindness of your interaction. I'll definitely keep it in mind in the future. Blessings! @@Joseph_David_Music_
Calvanism- the doctrine of a murder 1 John 3:15 KJV Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
@Levi Williams no sir. Assuming were properly defining hate. Do I get angry at people? Sure. If you're actually hating people, i would encourage you to get before the LORD.
Show me a scripture where election and chosen is FOR SALVATION or DAMNATION. John calvin says God sends people to eternal hell for his glory, Bible teaches God takes no pleasure for the destruction of the wicked and asks them to choose life. If Calvinism was the ture Gospel, no pastor would have to go out of his way to slowly sneak in the doctrine of TULIP. Unfortunately there are endless testimonies where their churches where spilt because the pastor was not truthful.
@@ShepherdMinistry with respect in it's right context this it talking about those who believe in Jesus in the last days. Its not unconditional election for salvation before the foundation of the world.
How do people agree with Calvinism? This is what Romans 10:9-13 says “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”” Romans 10:9-13 NIV
Hey brother, Calvinists believe those verses. But, you’re only looking at one half of what Calvinists believe. This is why you don’t understand their view.
That doesn't really refute Reformed theology. We choose God, yes, but because God chose us. Also, we're not the only denomination who believes in predestination (Lutherans believe in single predestination, we believe in double)
I had the same feelings when I first learned about some people believed in the elect. And now that I too believe that, I was so wrong. I've never been more humbled than when I realized I truly had nothing to do with my salvation. It wasn't a choice I made. I never had a choice in the matter. I don't know why God would choose me but I am so thankful.
Pride not because they are elect all who believe are elect but Pride because many Calvinist think they have it all figured out snd. Look down there noses at other believers, interesting that many who follow Calvin are Amill and teach infant baptism both which are unbiblical, Calvin and Luther were both Roman Catholic in background and because of this they found some biblical truths but kept some of the traditional Catholic baggage which means they should show some humility and realize some of what many of them hold to has no biblical support, The Sola Scriptura statement is made but much of the time only when it is convenient,
It's not that non Calvinists believe that we are chosen specifically, in fact the bible states that God came down to earth for us all, we are all chosen and loved by God whether we are a Christain or not, it's whether we decide to believe in him and accept the gift given to us all through his son.
Chosen for what ? And if our will is such a big factor what hope do we have that heaven will truly be the end of sin? Adam and Eve sin and had no inherent sin nature neither did the devil or all the fallen angels. How can God promise us eternity without being sovereign beyond our will?
@@rebirthofgodrics907 @rebirthofgodrics907 @rebirthofgodrics907 Jesus has chosen us humans to receive the gift given to us through his son, the gift is eternal life with him in heaven, we have hope that heaven will be the end of sin because God says so in his word. He ultimately has the last word, but he chooses to allow us to choose him or not to choose him, it's a gift not a forced requirement. He is sovereign, but he's not a dictator, the fact that he gave us the choice means that he is sovereign. the fact that God gave us the gift of free will and the gift of eternal life should be proof enough of his sovereignty, the bible clearly states that.
Calvinism in a nutshell (when they’re painted into a corner) say that faith is a work. Ephesians 2: 8-10 obviously disproves this. As deceptive as many of them can be, ask the right questions, get them talking out of both sides of their mouth, they will ultimately call faith a work.
No, Calvinist do not say faith is a work. They do, however, say " For [it is] by grace you have been saved through faith, and this [is] not from yourselves, [it is] the gift of God, [it is] not from works, so that no-one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that in them we might walk. (Eph 2:8-10)"
@delightfulBeverage Eternal damnation is just the need of discipline to get the right direction. In Europe there are many calvinist churches who always focus on being damned for God, as God is with the brokenhearted and the least, not the 'greatest'. The first will be the last, last will be the first. It's just in the Americas where eternal damnation has been extremely demonized and taken out out of context.
The apostle Paul writes Colossians and calls members of the Body of Christ, US, the ELECT. Here it is in context [] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. [] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. [] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. [] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: [] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. [] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. [] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; [] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. [] Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Paul writes that Christ died and gave his life a ransom for ALL If that is true and it is then ALL are elected to come to the knowledge of the gospel and believe it. Our gospel is that Jesus Christ shed his blood for the forgiveness of our sin, his death, burial and resurrection give us eternal life. All that believe that gospel. 1 Cor. 15
I just had a girl telling me that I called her stupid by saying that obviously we cannot choose to come to Christ on our own... "Superior attitude" she called
We won't come to Christ on our own. Carnal mind and sin wants no God to expose them. What bothers me is Calvinists believe they can't resist God yet, they still sin. They act like they're special over the rest of us.
@@nunyabusiness5275 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I wrote unto you, that ye sin less. Jesus told the adulteress "go and sin less." John 1:29 ...Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away some sin of the world. I know what you are going to follow up on. Am I sinless and perfect? I make every attempt to see temptation and find the way out that God gives. You make this sound perfectly reasonable to sin and boast about it. Calvinists believe in irresistible grace. This grace cannot be refuted by this believer and should also have the ability to overcome sin, as it would abound more than sin in every way, thus, taking dominion over it the instant a Calvinist is saved. Yet, Calvinists like you act like this is the normal life of a believer. Christianity is not a sinning religion.
I think the issue is that neither side really takes the time to get to know what the other believe. I was raised traditional Baptist and came to believe in reformed theology later in my Christian walk. Unfortunately many treat people who have different interpretations of key passages of scripture as the enemy when we believe the same core doctrines. Christ is God, He died on the cross for sins, and was raised on the third day. We have much more in common than not common but yet we’re so hostile. For any that would be interested in learning what true Calvinism is I will attempt to explain in just a few sentences, but it is important to understand there is much to know and it could be beneficial to study it on your own even to help you understand your convictions even more. It is important to point out that the sovereignty of God in salvation is not something you preach to those who are not saved. To those who are not saved they receive the gospel plain and simple. Repent and believe. After salvation the understanding that your salvation was all of God’s work becomes exceedingly wonderful because the graciousness of God is so wonderful. To many I think the main doctrine that helps people understand Calvinism a little better is the T or total depravity. I prefer the term absolute inability. This doctrine teaches that after the Fall and sin entered man’s heart that man spiritually died. Ephesians 2:1. Not sick, not separated from God, not just really sinful, but spiritually dead. A complete nature change. This is why the idea of free will doesn’t come into effect with the choice of salvation because to exercise faith is a “good” act in fact it is the only act man can do that is “good” or that pleases God. However, by nature you could not and even would not make that exercise of faith because by nature you desired nothing from God. You hated God. This is why God had to change your heart to take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Then of course you believed because your eyes were opened. God bless. I’d highly recommend the message series The doctrines of Grace by John MacArthur on the Grace to You app which is free. God bless brothers and sisters keep reading scripture and diving deeper into God’s awesome nature.
Love requires freedom, meaning free creatures, we humans must want to choose Him, meaning we choose, so then He lovingly gives us a drop of grace, something we dont deserve. Why cant people understand this ,its really simple lol.
Does that mean parents can't love their children or children their parents? Las time I checked, people aren't born based on their own free will decision, but based completely on the choices of other parties. And Jesus even used that as a point of comparison regarding born again, it is as the Spirit moves, not how many moves. But if such a freewill violating act as conception can still produce a loving relationship between parent and child, how much more would God's free will act to bring salvation to his children be an especially loving act that can produce the deepest most intimate of love between God and his people?
As a free will gal, coming to a saving faith is the realization of how wretched I am and that I need a Savior. It's a humbling experience not a prideful one.
I do not believe in Calvinism. A loving God would not create people with the purpose of sending them to hell. He gives us ALL a choice to receive the gift of salvation.
That is only one view of Calvinism. Don't be dumb. Infralapsarianism is another different one. There is a reason the great theologians in history were Calvinists.
That's supralapsarian Calvinism, not infralapsarian Calvinism (which was the position of Calvin, supralapsarianism was the position of his successor, Theodore Beza)
To those who say that he destroyed a strawman. I was in an IFB church who constantly hammered on the "he chose you because you chose him" doctrine. It is an arguement that is being used.
Has a Christian I just tried to focus on on my relationship with the Lord Jesus I try not to think too much about Calvinism because my mind overthinks and I start thinking if I'm really saved or if I'm really a child of God. There are a few evidence that someone has saved and one of them is a love what the lord loves and they hate wicked things and they don't want to do them anymore because the Holy Spirit lives in them. Secondly their language changes where it's no foul language or cuss words that comes out of their mouth. Even though our flesh can get to us at times I understand that. I know people have their own opinions and I understand that but we need to understand the context of scripture cannot look at one first but look at quite a few versus everything in large word. It's kind of hard for me to think that God only chooses certain people to get saved and not others. I know I believe that the Lord gives us free will but he also searches for people to love him freely and have a relationship with him freely and he does send us love letters and flowers to us every day but some people reject his love letters and flowers.what I mean by Is this Love letters and flowers if it's his word or someone watching TV or listening to a radio and they hear or watching a pastor preaching the gospel and preaching sin. An atheist can walk on the street somewhere and they pick up something and all of a sudden it's the gospel tract and they can convicted of their sins and that's when the Holy Spirit will work in that person. I know that with me understanding the Lord's character that the Lord won't Force his love upon anyone because true love and has to be freely given it cannot be forced. Just like I can't force my love upon anyone either. I would love for a brother or a sister in Christ they have a nice dialogue and conversation...✍️✝️🇺🇸❤️ Ps I love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ remember the focus our minds on Jesus Christ in our relationship with him and to let our light shine in the dark world that's why people will see Christ like character within us.
Bravo. On point. :D I don't even understand why the term calvinist exists. It's several times written in the bible that believers are the chosen ones. Plus the fact that god knows everything about our lives before it happens and he made everything.
Love this...I've been on both sides of the fence.First by flesh then by spirit. You had no choice in being born. Nor do you have a choice to be born by spirit. People have a hard time accepting that they are created. And a created thing will do what it's created for.
We are all born with a spirit and flesh. We don't have a choice to be born of the Holy Spirit because once we have been fully persuaded to believe the testimony that God gave of His Son, He seals us with the Holy Spirit "against our will" and counts us as His simply because we believed Him. The flesh desires the things of the world and our spirit desires the things from above which is why we experience the pain of regret and shame when we walk in the flesh but thank God He didn't create us with flesh alone. Matthew 26:41 “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” When we receive the Holy Spirit by faith, it becomes two against one 🦾
Even the elect struggle with doubt if their hearts are humble. But he made us and chose us before the foundation of the world to walk in the good works he prepared for us. Those who stumble over Christ were also ordained to do so. Many don't see or consider the severity of God. Just sunshine and rainbows for many. No consideration for the suffering that we must endure for belonging to Him. But it's purely good. Because if we love God and were called according to his purpose, we know that all things are working together for good.
'God' (I always put Him in the ' marks because I certainly do not understand Him - - - but then He does repeatedly tell us He is beyond our understanding . . . ) anyhow 'God' knew who would call on Him for salvation and who would reject Him. I did ask Him what about the person who will say "If you had blinded me like Paul, I would have gotten saved. Why did you blind Paul, but not me?" 'God' answered me - "First of all I am God and do not have to answer you. But I will give you the answer. I KNEW Paul would stay faithful despite his many beatings. But you, I KNEW if I blinded you, yes, you would have gotten 'saved' but then when the hard times came, you would have 'left the faith'. SO that is why I did not waste My time to blind you." David Adams, Mobile, AL
1 SAMUEL 2:25 If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, "BECAUSE THE LORD DESIRED TO KILL THEM".
Jesus heart is grieved to see brothers and sisters in Christ continuously arguing about semantics. This is exactly what all the different sects of Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes were doing in Jesus day. This heart posture is no different. We need more discussions to sharpen each other and at least reach mutual understanding. Not more arguments of theological "theories" which is exactly what both Calvinism and Armenianism are.
The whole point of the Gospel is the thing called free will. Why would Jesus die for the elect? To make them feel good that they where elected? And John 3 16 is what then? Yes you are prideful, needing God to pre determine everything for you to feel special and elected, because the only way we would need to be elected is if we has no free will, so why even send Jesus to die and suffer? As an act of worship to the elect? Don't y'all see the issue here? You think God send for you, but the Gospel clearly says is us who should come to Christ. You have it backwards. I pray you wake up to the truth.
There is no doctrine of free will in the Bible. Paul even devoted two chapters of the book of Romans explicitly saying that God controls the destiny and decisions of men. The other apostles constantly reverence predestination in there epistles. It so clear that Free Will isn’t a thing in the Bible that it not even funny.
@Cj Jc So if there's no free will, what did Jesus die for? If God predetermines the saved, what's the purpose of Jesus dying as the way of salvation, if we don't even have the free will to believe in Him? Don't you realize that without free will everything is meaningless? Next time you sin, are you gonna blame God for making you sin?
@I Love Jesus Will you blame God next time you sin? Just curious. How are you a sinner if all you do is the will of God? And why would you even need Jesus then? To save you from the sin He also predestined you to do?
@I Love Jesus that's what I believe too, God can do whatever He wants, he can allow us to have free will, and He can also predestine anyone to be saved. I just don't buy into God predestination of sin and evil, but He can and does allow it, according to His will.
@@ByGraceThroughFaith777 Well take it up with God. Just read Romans Chapter 9. Why do you think you had any part in your salvation? What human quality or characteristic would make one person believe and the other not? It blatantly states that God keeps the heart of unbelievers blind via Satan to hid the truth of the gospel and he pre destined people base on grace to believe.
I think this is an argument that we believers shouldn't have. It's like trying to look into the programming rather than using the user's end. There is a tension that we mortals can't wrap.our minds around. There is election. God also says repeatedly throughout the Bible "if you will..then I will, but if you...then I will" which clearly speaks of giving people a choice. It's beyond my miniscule intellect
Calvinism is masterpiece of deception. Why? Because its a mirror of Jean Cauvin's heart & soul; dark, twisted, vile, murderous and filled with rage and hate.
@@goosieschmoo8239 my comment was more or less addressing the Calvinist claim that God predestined a elect few to salvation while condemning the rest to eternal, conscious torment in the Lake of Fire. Calvinism goes as far as to claim that God predestined sin. If this is true, we logically cannot blame Satan or his demons for sin, since it was created by God before the creation of the world.
@@The_OrthoBully God didn't create sin. Sin is a lack of holiness. And since God is holy, He cannot create it. God can allow things to happen for His purposes (ex: what man meant for evil God meant for Good). it's amusing how you hate the very biblical truth of predestination and election when it's in fact spoken about all throughout the bible. Also, the early church fathers spoke of it as well as many other important Christians that preceeded calvin. Calvin did not come up with these very concepts himself. He merely made it easy for us to understand. Just a few examples of people who spoke of these things as well were St Augustine of Hippo (354 AD-430AD) and John Wycliffe (died in 1384). Calvin was born in the 1500s. Would you dare call them calvinists when these men existed well before he did?
there would also be no need for the cross- why would Jesus suffer the cross if the Calvinists already have their winning lotto ticket to heaven - seems like a lot of trouble for nothing
@@kristophstjames4143 .....that's not how calvinists think. How would there be salvation for those who are going to be saved if Christ didn't die on the cross? You're just spouting off stuff you know no one actually believes.
Which is the more prideful position - that God views all sinners as equally worthy of damnation but extends the gospel to anyone who responds in faith… or that God effectively thought you deserved more than hell and picked you to be saved?
It is unscriptural and false, and yes arrogant, for someone to claim they were specially chosen by God: Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:34-35.
Well let’s find out if you’re right. The Calvinist believe they were not chosen due to anything of themselves but of God. Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
@@ShepherdMinistry - God offers salvation to ALL and then gives ALL the ability to put their faith in Him, and then, in His Sovereignty, grants them volition to choose who they wish to serve. Those who receive that offer and put their faith in Him are saved, those who don’t are damned….Christianity 101. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (Heb 4:2).
@@ShepherdMinistry - Because my conscience bore witness with the Gospel and I did not reject its prompting....as many, unfortunately, do. Its mans stubbornness and rebellion that keep them from the Kingdom....not God.
Amen brother! I do hope the Arminians in this comment section do come to understand this truth! It is philosophically and theologically deep making it hard to grasp, and it can also be hard to stomach emotionally, but the scriptures teach it plain and clear. I spent a long time as a strong Arminian, I hated Calvinism. But it turned out I did not understand it, and I was just fighting with Gods word! It is a wonderful truth when grasped, and if I had to bet on anything being almost certainly true in the bible, Calvinism would be that truth.
The prideful attribute of Calvinists is that they are, in my experience, NEVER willing to entertain the idea that they could be wrong about what scripture says. I believe in Sola scriptura, and I can't see how anyone could be a Calvinist after thoughtfully and openly reading the Bible. Also, faith is not a work...
John 6:29 'Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.' The fact that one believe in Christ is a work, not our work, but the work of God. And it takes faith to believe, therefore, faith is a work, not our work, but the work of God!
@Jane Yue Where in the whole Bible is belief described as a work. I'm pretty sure faith is not a work. Believing doesn't result in anything without the work of God.
@@travissharon1536 I have written it above, and I will requote this again. John 6:29 'Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.' So, the fact that you believe in Him is a work, but not our work, but the work of God. Therefore, belief is not only faith, but the work of God. Which would fit John 6:47 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.' It didn't say he gets eternal life, but it states that he has it. And therefore, it is the power of God that ye believe in Him. And so what about the unbelievers? On the flip side, either God didn't work in those unbelievers yet, by providing them a new heart and put the Holy Spirit in them yet (Ezek 36:26), or they are the children of the devil aka the tares, the goats.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation? The thing is, predestination and election is all throughout the bible. People like to try to claim that calvin himself came up with those concepts himself.
@travissharon1536 You can make the bible say anything you want it to say, some people are very creative in it, hence the thousands and thousands of different denominations. It's the same with any other religious book. It has multiple interpretation as it is not linear. God is laughing his ass off in heaven because of what silly humans made of it, as a matter of speech.
Sterile premise, IMO. Both Keiths here are under the assumption that regeneration precedes faith (the cornerstone of Calvinism, according to the late R.C. Sproul) - that we're chosen _in order that_ we will believe. Problem is, Jesus said to His opponents, "you are not willing to come to me (in faith) so that you may have life (i.e. be regenerated)" (Jhn.5.40), *not,* "I am not willing to give you life (i.e. regenerate you) so that you may come to me (in faith)", and elsewhere, "your faith has made you whole" (e.g. Mat.9.22). Non-Calvinist Keith is trying to say God saved him before he had faith *because* he foresaw that he would have faith, which is still a very Calvinist thing to say, and Calvinist Keith's point of contention is what follows "because". Here's the thing, brother: One only need identify with either character if he assumes that that the yet unregenerate are *unable to respond** _(positively)_ to the Gospel. Calvinism stretches the metaphor of being "dead" in trespasses to the extent that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the power of God unto salvation, but rather, Irresistible Grace/pre-faith regeneration is, but Arminianism is only one step short of that. Where I come from, we have neither. Hence, Provisionism. * which _would_ literally mean they're not response-able, but Calvinism doesn't care, 'cus it thinks "who are you that repliest against God" is meant to rebut this point.
“The Bible says that we are chosen” Yep To be conformed Jesus chose the apostles from the disciples God/Jesus did not choose people for salvation Sorry gnostics Wrong again
@@ShepherdMinistry Who is saying that God draws all men the exact same way? Certainly not any non-Calvinist that I know. God absolutely dispenses grace unequally. We are not denying that, but what the Calvinist denies is that ALL men are given grace by God. The mere fact that we breathe "freely" and are not struck down at birth is evident of that. Read Romans 1. Who will recieve a greater reward at the judgement seat of Christ? The individual whom God poured out abundant grace upon and whom answered the call and served God faithfully or the individual in whom little grace was given and yet they also served God faithfully? This is where Calvinism fails in light of Scripture and where the absolute ridiculous false accusations towards anyone who does not bow down to this theological construct that todays seminaries are teaching comes from. "You hate the God of the Bible" is often used. I have personally been told that many times by Covenant Theology/Calvinists. Our pulpits are being filled daily by men who attend Bible college and are taught this. Long gone are the days of called men of God who simply preach the word and are respected without a degree of indoctrination.
1. I would never argue that all Calvinists are prideful nor would I argue that all non-Calvinists are prideful. I have known people gotten carried away with pride on both sides. Pride tends to pop up when someone is believes they have the right answer to a question. 2. A person who accepts the has to humbly amid they can not save themselves. We must rely on what Christ has done not on what we can do. 3. Just because the non-Calvinist believes people make libertarian choices doesn’t mean we are boasting. We are making a choice not to trust ourselves. That is humbling and we anyone can do this. It the fault of the person who rejects if they choose to do that. Therefore we put the blame of damnation on man and not on God. 4. Yes, we believe in election. We are elect in Christ when we put our faith in him that is when we become the elect. we are saved by grace through faith not given grace so that we can have faith.
@@brendanbrady1291 I don’t see where god chooses who will believe and who will not, actually it shows god is a gentleman and allows us to make the decision to believe and follow him. Jesus died for us but we choose if we accept his sacrifice
@@jasonbuben2653 "as man as we're appointed for eternal life believed" and did you really say God is a gentleman. You know God didn't ask anyone if they wanted to be created he just created them because he's God.
@@brendanbrady1291 how was he supposed to ask if he was the only one in existence? God wanted relationships just like we as humans desire. So why is it hard to believe that god wanted to create man so that he could have relationships based around love, which love only comes from free will.
Calvinist is like a derogatory term these days. They hate you because you teach sound doctrine. You are saved by grace through faith, this is the gift of God, not of yourself, so that no man may boast. Everyone's an arminian until they read John chapter 8! Or John 10 as well. Maybe Matthew 13 too. Oh wait, the entire Bible teaches it. Just look at Noah's ark -- do you really think Noah was inherently more righteous than anybody else who lived at the time? Or was Noah made righteous by God before the foundation of the world, as Ephesians says?
More taking things out of context. Summarize Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, then copy/paste Ephesians 2: 8-10, as it contradicts Ephesians 1:4 as a Calvinist belief. Look at Ephesians 1: 1-12 as a question, how does 1 become ‘in him’ like Ephesians 1:4 gets used incorrectly. Well the answer to that question is in Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise Not chosen, trusted and heard the gospel of salvation and *BELIEVED IT* John 10….. read John 6:70 (see who Jesus is speaking to. Then go to John 15:16 (another verse Calvinists like to inject themselves in. Then go to John 17:12. You’ll see he is speaking to his disciples all throughout John 6-17, not us. Matthew 13.. Again who is Jesus speaking to? Jews, not gentiles. I’m going to take a wild guess that you deny dispensations. Even though the very word is mentioned 4 times in scripture: Ephesians 1:10 Ephesians 3:2 Colossians 1:25 1 Corinthians 9:17
@@Brii.ZHey Jesus, why do some people reject the gospel? And I simply smarter and more righteous than other people for accepting you into my heart? "You do not believe because you are not my sheep" - Jesus speaking to people who don't believe. Just in case you missed the obvious context. "You don't believe because you are children of the devil" - Jesus again speaking to people who don't believe. Just in case you missed the obvious context. Wow! Thanks, Jesus. So many people try to tell me that you didn't save me. They try to tell me that I was more righteous than other people and that you saved me because I believed. Wow! I hate lies, but I know Jesus never lied. These people constantly accuse me of taking things "out of context" but then spew their lies constantly. Just like the Jews who say Christians take Isaiah 53 "out of context." Haha!
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 the more you say these things the more you're just proving biblical theology (nicknamed calvinism) to be true. The natural man hates the things of God and loves their sin.
I urge everyone here to watch a handful of podcasts on a YT channel titled "the harmonious atheist." This man was "deconverted" from Christianity and now proudly interviews those who give their own deconversion stories. I'm talking preachers, Sunday school teachers, and others who were completely committed to their church. A very high percentage were Calvinists and brought up believing the teachings of Calvinism. They felt defeated when they struggled with sin. They wondered "am I truly elect?" They all started wondering "why would God predestine so many to eternal hell?" And on and on! Calvinism KILLS the church and the Christian. I watched my own church nearly shut the doors when we hired a Calvinist pastor. We ARE responsible for our actions. We are, and I mean ALL of us, capable of accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ. This liberal philosophy of no accountability good or bad is utter nonsense!
Believing you are elect is not prideful. Calvinists tend to be arrogant, so it doesn’t matter what they believe, they reek of pride with or without Calvinism.
@goosieschmoo8239 there are exactly 0 mainstream Christian theological systems that believe man is the ultimate source for his own salvation. You are just adding more strawmen to the conversation.
@@scsteeldrums if you're saying that the ultimate deciding factor in man's salvation rests on man's "final decision" (ex:99% of salvation comes from God and 1% comes from man) you are saying that man is the source of their salvation whether you acknowledge it or not. If you deny that salvation is 100% from God and man contributes nothing to their salvation other than the sin that made it necessary, you are robbing God of His glory.
@@goosieschmoo8239 my dude. It's OK if you don't understand other systems of soteriology than your own, but to attribute it to us being arrogant and desiring to rob God is pretty uncharitable of you.
@@scsteeldrums nah, salvation is 100% from God. We contribute nothing to it other than the sin that made it necessary. The bible openly speaks of God electing and predestination us to salvation from before the world was ever created. How can folks look at all the times election and predestination in the bible and still say "nah, it's not real"?
As a non-Calvinist who has watched a lot of Leighton and Provisonist perspectives, I feel this video unto the Lord I say this is half-baked. The first half deals with how non-Calvanists like to umbrella the abuse of pride to all Calvinists which is wrong and this was a good reminder of how being chosen in this sense is not a prideful thing inherently. However, it then goes on to do the same thing non-Calvinists do to them by saying that it is prideful to say God chose people based on their response to His spirit by free will. It also is easy to play into the wrong assumption made that the other side is saying you do not need God you can just go to him without his aid or spirit so it ends up doing something similar if not the same as the people it is critiquing.
It would be funny if God chose every Calvinist to think he was chosen for heaven but really they were chosen for hell 😂. No seriously though Calvin's God is the most circular God. It's like a plumber poking a hole in his pipe, getting mad then fixing it. That's Jesus in Calvinism, God fixing his own pipe which he poked.
@@maluillecause if Calvins right you are acting foolish. And you already said it would be funny if millions of Christians went to Hell you've already showed your ultimately un Christ like
@@brendanbrady1291 How am I being un christ like? The majority of Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, coptics, protestants don't follow this doctrine. And even if I found it funny don't blame me, blame Calvin's God who perfectly decreed and willed it for me to find it funny. It is him and not I who wants me to find it funny you're going to hell. All i do I do according to Calvin's God's will. So glorify him that his will is perfected in the fact I find it funny you're going to hell
This common Calvinist apologetic falls short for the fact that no reasonable person ever glorifies the receiver rather than the giver of a gift, even if you might say they “accepted” it. In another similar analogy, the drowning man does not and cannot say “Good thing I grabbed the life preserver that my rescuer threw… I obviously played a part in my salvation.” Every reasonable person realizes that only the rescuer of the drowning man deserves praise for the rescue. The rescued one, though she indeed recognized the rescuer and reached for the life preserver, yet rightly falls to her knees on the deck of the boat and says to her rescuer, “My salvation was all of you.” These arguments are answers to dilemmas that don’t exist.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
Choosing God is not a good work. The book of James clearly makes a difference between works and faith (faith is choosing God). It's unbelievable how many Calvinists believe choosing God is prideful, wrong, or impossible. Inability to do good does not include inability to have faith, because faith is not a good work
There’s a difference between religious pride and spiritual pride. I’d rather say, “Jesus opened the door for me” rather than “Jesus closed the door on some and left it open for others because they have medals”. God doesn’t discriminate unless outside values and conditions are added (James 2:9)
When I was about 4 or so, I had a dream, where God told me to "follow his way". I didn't know what that meant, but my parents said it was a biblical. So I can say for sure that god has chosen me. Dont ask me why. Grace, probably.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
@@laserfalcon general call vs effectual call. When you look at John 6:44 with the understanding that not everyone is going to be saved will understand that this scripture is about those whom which will be saved. Anything other than that would be universalism.
Very clever with the Tractor Supply hat. I am a non-Calvinist and will be going there today! 😂 Let me ask a Calvinist a question: "Someone who is given much grace and goes on to do great things for the Lord vs. Someone who is given grace but not abundantly, yet does great things for the Lord" Which believer is more obedient and which believer will hold a higher station with Christ in eternity? Certainly the latter. If you answer neither, then you deny your very doctrinal stance along with Scripture. You see, it does take grace and we are incapable in and of ourselves, but what we do with that grace is up to us. There are mighty men and women who have clawed and fought the flesh through much torment to serve the Lord. There are examples throughout the Bible of this. God gives grace to ALL men and there is absolutely NO scriptural evidence that validates the claim that His precious atonement was limited. Good day and God bless.
Calvinsists read the Bible and don't ignore the fact that it talks about predestination and election. They also don't think calvin came up with the concepts of predestination and election because it's spoken about so very much in the bible.
@@goosieschmoo8239 calvinists won’t hold God’s feet to the fire(accountability) for “making mankind to do evil deeds and having thoughts”(irresistible will of God)
@@1971AEDWARDS imagine having the heretical view that not only do you think you're gonna take a Holy and Righteous God to task for some sort of imagined slight, but also because you think God created sin. Sin is the absence of holiness. He cannot sin because He is holy. Sin does not originate from Him. Also, who are you compared to a Holy and Righteous God? What makes you think you can take Him to task? Talk about some serious pride and foolishness.
1 Corinthians 7:17 Nevertheless, EACH person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has CALLED THEM. He called all of us. He didn't choose few that would serve him. He choose all of us and only a few answered. This debunks calvinism.
You guys can be a Calvinist but I will be a Christian. 1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (NASB95): For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? Dare I become anything but a follower of Christ and not a follower of a fallen man such as John Calvin as The Apostle Paul rightfully warned us.
@@Miss-pm4kb Then you must agree with the scriptures I just sent to you, warning us that we should not be called followers of fallen men like John Calvin.
@@UA-camhatesconservativespeech I believe TULIP because it is in the scriptures and the Apostles taught it. Besides, why do you assume I believe TULIP or any parts of TULIP because of Calvin??? I already noticed some of it in the scriptures not too long after I got Saved before I even heard of Calvin. But, I still give Calvin his flowers for we have teachers for a reason, although the Church Fathers spoke TULIP language too. My pastor is a fallen man too, but does that mean I am not to trust him to teach and be overseers over the flock, as I hold and test everything he says by scripture??? As I said, AMEN! to the scriptures you quoted. I absolutely agree.
Calvinism is a false gospel denying the doctrine of Christ! 2 John 1:9-10 No one is saved by believing in the five points of Calvinism! ( Heb. 3:12: 6:4-6; 10:29)
Never could understand why a potter would weep for the vessels he made for the garbage. Think about this passage…. Matthew 23 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
I grew up Arminian, but had someone actually sit down and guide me through what Calvinists believe about 3 years ago. There wasn't anything he said I disagreed with. I'd say now I generally consider myself to be Calvinist. But it's been really interesting seeing how Calvinists and Arminians will make the same false claims about each other. There's the "prideful" one, but also the evangelism argument. Both sides will also say "If you take it to it's logical conclusion, it doesn't make sense to evangelize if you're Calvinist/Arminian [whichever is your opposition]"
I also am good at winning arguments with myself
The problem with calvinistic emphasis is that they erect a straw man argument and go after that argument which is a caricature and misrepresentation, and then they claimed victory over the straw man argument..
They don't see that..but listen closely to the regurgitation that they spew..
It's fake news..
😂😂😂
You could alway make an argument here for what you believe.
@@berndtherrenvolk1951 here's the problem..the talking points argumentation that calvinist people bring oftentimes is not really conducive nor the groundwork for us to have a discussion...
@@rauldelarosa2768hat's true. But that fault is not a peculiar calvinist distinctive, as anti-calvinists can and do get every bit as acerbic and juvenile on the matter. The debate is too often a horrible landscape filled with arrogance, disobedience, and a lack of charity. It's pathetic and embarrassing for Christians.
If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart you shall be saved.
Please read 1 Corinthians 12:3. How does one confess?
@@janeyue7491 from your heart with your mouth
@@johnhorton356 let me ask you this. Jeremiah 17:9 states, 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?' Romans 3:14 states that the 'mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.' How do you believe in Him with a deceitful and wicked heart, and confess with the mouth that is full of cursing and bitterness?
@@janeyue7491 Romans 10:9
Romans 6: 6-23
It is Not prideful to choose to accept a free gift.
I’m saying this in love just tryin to tell you where he’s coming from. It is a free gift but to say that you chose god is saying that you, being totally wicked and evil down to your core, made the good decision to follow Christ so you would be saying that there is still some good in you that would seek after god hope that helped much love brother/sister
@@joshuagaddis1779 everybody in their lifetime must answer if they believe or don't believe , accept or reject. Is there merit to picking a green car over a blue car? "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: - Deuteronomy 30:19 . I choose to have faith in what is said, I choose life.
@@chooser8457 Deuteronomy 30:6 : And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, SO THAT you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
God acts first.
Also, Moses was literally telling people to follow the law to live. Is that what you really want to be quoting?
@@id744 Just using an OT verse to illustrate choice. Yes, God makes the first move. "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."- John 12:32 . Our salvation today depends on our belief or unbelief choice of answer to 1Cor15:1-4, to forgive our sins, the gospel that saves. Can "It was preordained" be the reason for presence at the Great White Throne Judgment.? Don't think so.
@@chooser8457 I agree brother all reformed theology is, is explaining how salvation happens from a Birds Eye view in this life yes we choose, but we choose because he chose first it’s explaining how it happens
Faith is non-meritorious.
So no, it's not prideful to choose to believe in Jesus.
Calvinists are wrong.
Well let’s find out.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
Romans 3:27. “By faith, apart from works of the law”. Faith and the law are separate.
@@JakeHageman Ephesians 2 states that faith is a gift from God. How can you put your faith in Christ if you have no faith to begin with? Where do we get our faith if not from God?
@@joshuahawley2073amen. It’s also the work of God. People don’t like to hear it.
They always resign to that argument. The real question is, can those thst are in the flesh, exercise saving faith (which is pleasing to God)
Ah, the old "faith is a work" Jedi Calvinist mind trick
Faith is a work ...of God. The Bible clearly tells us that those in the flesh cannot please God. And without faith, it is impossible to please Him. So those who are in the flesh cannot produce saving faith in and of themselves.
It AMAZES me how violent and hateful some "believers" become when you question their good works, piety and free-will.
Saying that God is supremely sovereign and chooses who He will save = a doctrine from the devil.
But saying I made the right decision and God was so pleased with me that He chose me! I used my awesome free-will (unencumbered by sin mind you) to rightly choose to believe = the most beautiful doctrine known to man.
There's something wrong with that. Pride is a heck of a thing, even for believers.
It's not pride. Throughout the entire Bible, the main theme is, repent, turn to me, have faith in me, and then I will heal you and save you. Yes, there are some passages that speak more to God's sovereign will, but there are many, many more passages that speak to are human freedom to choose to have faith and turn to God or not.
Bottom line: Calvinism is an attack on the absolute goodness and righteousness of God. It turns people into robots and God into a monster that wills children to be tortured and damn's people to hell before they've done anything right or wrong, all for his sick glory.
That's not the God of the Bible, and it's not the God I worship. That's why I will always push back against my calvinist brothers who are so confused in this matter.
@staza1 and there's the rub, you have a limited view of God my friend. He surely doesn't need YOU (or anyone for that matter) to get Him off the hook for however He decides to deal with people. Also, I don't think you understand Calvinism because the Calvinist believes that we are moral agents who have a free will, BUT that will is bound by our nature (Ephesians 2 to see what our nature is prior to regeneration). Your view has such a lofty opinion of man's free will that your whole doctrine and theology revolves around this notion of free-will (that is not tainted by the sin nature); even God's character--in a way--is subject to how it responds or reacts toward man's free-will. You say He's unloving in my view because He chose to save me even when I had no desire to be saved (that sounds like agape love to me).
@@staza1Arminianism isn't any better. It turns God into a monster who gave people the ability to take a test He knew before He created them they would fail at and will punish them forever for it.
Your two choices are "Dad says he's going to beat us relentlessly when he comes back if we don't solve this puzzle. We have no idea how to solve this puzzle and we have no experience solving puzzles but at least he's giving us free will to choose to solve it."
Vs
"Dad's picked favorites since before we were born so he already solved the puzzle for his favorites and there's no way of knowing who those are because he hid the puzzles and won't even let us work on them."
It's really only a question of whether you want a dad who's going to beat you if you screw up or one who decided before you were born whether or not He'd beat you.
I've heard numerous Calvinists say, "We should just be glad that God chose to save ANY of us." Easy to say when you're one of the elect! The reason this position is prideful isn't because you're chosen. It's because your idea of "good news" is "The rest of you may be tortured for eternity for something you have no control over, but at least He chose ME!"
I guess you don’t believe in hell cause the non Calvinist view would still not change the last point. Cause all land where the gospel doesn’t touch will go to hell for idolatry and not knowing Christ. Thing which I’m theory is out of their control a man gets to know Christ but his parents die before his conversion if he only had known Christ earlier. In the end no one has control either by election or providence you are dependent of forces beyond yourself are essential to escape hell
The irony is, no Calvinists were chosen to be saved
What they don’t realize is their belief system parallels that of Roman Catholicism, lordshippers and legalists. Now if we think about the wide gate vs the narrow gate, they parallel a denomination that has over 1 billion people… and they think they are on the narrow path 🤦♂️
@@EmJayTM here is what Calvinists believe when they are ultimately painted into a corner: faith is a work.
Calvinism is also basically Roman Catholicism, and it’s funny most of them don’t even know this. There are over 1 billion of you who hold the save salvation belief.. and they think they are on the narrow path that few take… lol
@@Brii.Z lol you literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Insane. Also the narrow path is belief in Christ. And His children will
Number the sands of the shore and stars of the sky, so yeah, there’s billions that will be saved. You’re confused lol.
It’s best to be a part of the Lords church, church of Christ, where only scripture is use for all instructions, teachings , sound doctrine where man does not add to or take away during teachings. Man is the author of confusion, not God.
Calvinists don't know what non calvinists believe. They only know what celebrity calvinists tell them non calvinist believe. This is a great example.
Scriptural authority is why I reject calvinism.
@3rksum yeah, its unfortunate.
Calvinists have a straw man idea of their theological opponents' position. They use double talk to rationalize the contradictions in calvinism and then say the non calvinist just doesn't understand calvinism when those contradictions are pointed out.
@@coryalbright9798 why not make a comment explaining how this is a strawman and then redefine your actual position then?
You do realize most Calvinists used to be non Calvinists.
@ShepherdMinistry yeah, calvinists seem to convert Christians into calvinism. Christians don't typically start out calvinists. I'd say that most calvinists are not up front with the Christian they are trying to convince. They say things like "we believe God is sovereign" or "we believe man is sinful" and the non calvinist agrees(like every other christian would) and assumes that's calvinism. If the calvinist just said "we believe every sinful thought action and deed was divinely decreed to take place in eternity past and man is born unable to receive the free gift of salvation unless they are first effectually caused to be regenerated" then the non calvinist likely wouldn't consider calvinism as a tenable option.
@@coryalbright9798 Before we go into your other false accusations, do you take back your initial posts? If most were Arminians then they would be representing Arminians.
Let me be your interlocutor next time and see how that conversation should go 😊
I’ll even wear a hat and dark glasses if that helps 😂
No way! Dr. Flowers commented on this video!
The comments are silent Leighton
@@doveofgrace what?
@@DrDoerk, my reply was to the person above, who seemed ecstatic that Dr. Leighton Flowers actually responded to this video. I deleted my comment, so if you don’t mind, please delete your reply to me.
Already saw that with James White..and of course the inability to stick with any text consistently was very telling..a bunch of appeals to emotion,arguments from incredulity and projection by attacking his presuppositions as if you don’t yourself have presuppositions…funny how you didn’t even logically respond to this video
The real problem with Calvinism is that it states that God arbitrarily gives grace to some and not to others, meaning that salvation was not even offered to them. That is a massive perversion and is not what Scripture teaches.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
@@goosieschmoo8239 You left out the next verse which clears up how the Father draws someone to him:
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:45 KJV
So how are we drawn to the Father? By hearing his word. So everybody who hears about God is drawn to the Father and offered the gift of salvation if you choose to accept it.
@@jhgolf25 Hey pal, what part of you can't come to Christ unless the Father draws you to His Son do you not understand? What part of Those whom which are drawn by the Father WILL BE SAVED do you not understand? and clearly not everyone is going to be saved so I guess logically speaking here those folks in hell weren't drawn to His Son.
@@goosieschmoo8239 Bc they didn't choose to hear God's word. That's why the bible talks about those whose ears are waxed closed and their eyes have scales so they will not believe the truth and be drawn to God. Judging by your tone I get the sense you don't have a heart for God and to be your brother's keeper to ensure you are adding to God's kingdom. You seem treat the Kingdom of heaven like some exclusive club that only some are invited. Jesus made it clear that those that ask will receive and those that knock He will open unto them. A true belief in God and desire to be saved will lead God to see the good work that has been done unto a believer thru. We have assurance in our salvation, promised by God.
@@jhgolf25 judging by your constant desire to rob God of His glory and declare that man can take credit for his salvation speaks volumes. Salvation is 100% from God and not from man.
I gaurentee no one prays "thank you, Lord, for the choice that I made to be saved that I was smart enough to make."
Bro, you totally destroyed that strawman
It’s not a strawman when what he’s saying is true though lol. That’s all I hear anti reformed people saying. Come up with a different argument for free will and free choice.
@@KnightFelimple.
What is elect/chosen/election mean when used in the bible?
Biblically. It means, for a reason.
It does not mean chosen to be saved (before the foundation of the world)
God choses people to serve him for a purpose.
The isrealites were chosen to bring about Christ, to make God known to all the nations of the world and be a blessings through that.
Election in the calvinist way is that way because total depravity demands it by logical deduction, not from scripture.
It's like the word elohim. People think it means just God. But it has a broader definition than that as something like, all non-phyaical entities including God, angels, demons, and disembodied dead people.
@@LordBlk that’s not what elect means but okay. The Bible is full with man’s love for sin and their inability to please God unless God grants them grace and repentance.
Romans 8:5-8 “For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Everyone is in the flesh unless they have been United in to Christ. Is faith and repentance pleasing to God?
@@KnightFel very calvinist of you.
So unless you go and look up the word and analyze its use, you don't know what scripture says on it.
Election isn't to salvation.
It's to service.
Calvinism teaches it is, but that's not biblical. You have to go and look it up.
@@LordBlk No, you’re making the assertion. You prove it. No one has ever thought that election is unto service. Also, seems like I just get crickets from you when I asked you if faith and repentance are pleasing to God. 🦗
I am a 4 point Calvinist but in my forty years of Christian experience some of the most intellectually prideful people I have ever met were Calvinists, if one truly believes the tenets then it should lead them to Humility,
There's no such thing as a 4 point calvinist..
You're amylridian..
There are thousands of 4 point Calvinists, Who hold to most points but not limited atonement, Who defines what a Calvinist is, Do you have to practice and believe every thing, Such as Infant Baptism A-millennialism killing heretics,, Certainly a person can go to any theological system and believe certain parts they believe are true and reject other parts they believe disagree with Scripture, The cry of the Reformation was Sola scripture not Sola Calvin nor Sola Westminster confession, many teachers at Dallas seminary Moody Multnomah Wheaton Biola are what can be classified as 4 points Calvinists to say otherwise is untrue,
@@rauldelarosa2768 haha 😂
@@jamesstewart3742 that's the term... I did not make it up..
I would recommend you check out channels that try to debunk Calvinism and see how hateful they are. It goes both ways.
I used to be an Arminian. I will say, Calvinism, from my experience, gets hated on the most.
I don’t think I’ve met a single Calvinist that didn’t believe himself or herself one of the elect. That is an interesting coincidence
Every Christian believes in election and believes they are elect. If you believe in Christ Jesus you’re elect. It’s not possible unless your heart of stone is removed and it replaced with a heart of flesh. You’re SUPPOSED to know you’re the elect and have eternal life. Read John and 1 John. You’re supposed to rejoice in salvation and boast in the LORD. The people saying that one that claims they are elect and are saved are prideful are being sinful and denying God’s Word.
@@KnightFel Sir you are interpreting Sacred Scripture incorrectly. Worse yet, the very idea of sola scriptura means you also have to profess that scripture is perfectly clear, when in terms of predestination, it is not. I choose to trust the interpretation of Christ’s Church, which preaches that God predestines no one to hell, opposed to Calvin’s interpretation completely divorced from that Church safeguarded by the Holy Spirit.
@@arsenicrice9990 God isn’t the author of confusion. He is perfectly clear. You just hate the sovereignty of God. Scripture is perfectly clear that God predestines His people unto salvation. You rely on man’s tradition even when it contradicts scripture or is not backed up by scripture. You believe your fallible mind can’t understand infallible scripture, but some how your same fallible mind can understand the “infallible” interpretation of scripture by your church. Absolutely absurd.
Btw, Calvin didn’t invent predestination nor did he write much about it. Luther wrote WAY more on predestination than Calvin did. And it was Augustine who first explained it in the way the reformers understand it.
Do you believe God already knew from the foundations of the world who will believe and who will not?
Are you an open theist?
@@KnightFel I like your attempts to straw man me by saying if I don’t profess God to be a malicious author of sin, I must be an open theist. Hope you don’t mind the same treatment.
I agree He is not the author of confusion, but Christ didn’t come and write a book about His salvation of the world. He founded a Church and safeguarded it with the Holy Spirit. Through the Sacred Tradition of the infallibly protected Church, God gave us the canonized Bible.
Cut your self off from the vine of Christ in the Church, and you are nothing but fallible man, interpreting Scripture to fit your life and beliefs, rather than force yourself to conform to God’s will.
Your obsession with God’s sovereignty and refusal to believe He allows us to work against His will decimates His love and mercy in your false gospel.
@@KnightFelexcept Calvinism is the confusing doctrine that clearly denies Scripture. And the endless argument about it makes Satan smile because it prevents people like you from loving your brother.
Also, by denying church authority, you are denying Scripture because Scripture says that the Spirit will lead the church into all truth.
Ephesians 1:13. Paul states:
1) first a man hears the Gospel,
2) then he believes the Gospel,
3) then he is saved
in that order.
God does all the saving through the Power of the written or heard Gospel - IF you believe that truth. If you do, He regenerates you and gives you the Spirit of the Lord and eternal life. If a man does not believe God has provided this free gift of grace offered through His Son, God will judge him for His unbelief with everlasting punishment. That's fundamentally why Calvinism is false.
God doesn't choose to save individual people, He chooses to save a class of people - WHOSOEVER will believe His Gospel. And, He doesn't cast away people for no reason, before they're even born (that makes God a monster). He punishes people who willingly refuse His gift of grace, and continue on in their sin.
Mark 16:16
*_Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned._*
No one’s saying you’re saved before you believe. If the verse said, “In him, when you heard the gospel and believed, you were chosen” then you’d have a solid refutation of Calvinism.
@@hallboy5 You're unfamiliar with Calvinism and the T in TULIP, which teaches one must receive salvation (regeneration, eternal life) from the Father first, in order to even be able to believe in the Son, which is the exact opposite of the order of the gift of salvation. The Sacrifice of Jesus Christ plays no part in Calvin's doctrine of salvation, that's why it's another Gospel. You should study it, and its companion, the unbiblical burden of Reformed Lordship salvation, so you can help people escape it.
@@SSNBN777 Friend, there are clearly many commenters on this video that are unfamiliar with Calvinism. I promise you I'm not one of them. The doctrines of grace are something I've put a lot of thought and effort into understanding and have come to love God more thanks to them!
What do you think the T in TULIP stands for? It stands for Total Depravity, which doesn't teach that one needs to receive salvation from the Father before they can believe. That isn't even close! At best, you're describing a mutilated version of U (Unconditional Election) combined with I (Irresistible Grace).
Calvinism does not teach that one must receive salvation or regeneration or eternal life from the Father in order to believe in the Son. Here's what Calvinism does teach: You must be chosen/elected by the Father, atoned for/purchased by the Son, and regenerated/rebirthed by the Spirit in order to believe. None of those is the act of salvation/justification. Being saved/justified happens when you believe!
If you think the controversy around Calvinism stems from arguing about whether faith or justification come first, you are mistaken. The controversy stems from arguing about whether faith or regeneration come first, and regeneration is not the same thing as justification.
For more resources, I'd urge you to look into the chapters on soteriology in Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, or listen to various teachings by John Piper or R.C. Sproul. All great theologians that, I think, do an excellent job at faithfully explaining and exegeting Biblical soteriology. God bless!
@@SSNBN777
1) 'He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.' - John 8:47 (KJV)
2) Since John 8:47 is a fact, how can someone who is not of God heareth the word of God to even believe the word of God in the first place?
3) I am glad that I am saved before I even heard the gospel, for Eternal Salvation is 100% of Christ! It is not because of me, but because of Him!
And why does a man believe? Free will isn't the answer since the faith is "not of yourself".
Orthodox. Pre-denominational.☦️
"...that no man may boast."
what???? how can you believe that someone who made the Voluntary choice to pursue God is Prideful?!?!??? If a Calvinist views this to Exercise Faith to Voluntarily to pursue God as Prideful, this means that the Calvinist's Discernment is off. aka Perverted Reasoning. that's not Prideful to go to God. a Man who exercised Free Will to pursue God is not Arrogance, it's called Humility. How is it possible that a Calvinist does not understand the Correct Definition of what Humility VS Prideful is????!!! 🤦♂️
Well let’s find out.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
Are you implying you humbled yourself and the unbeliever did not?
@@ShepherdMinistry Even the Calvinist believes that one party humbled themselves and the other didn't. What kind of question is this?
@@Narikku The Calvinist believes God humbles man.
@@ShepherdMinistry The Calvinist generally believes God ordains by divine decree what man's will is, but man still acts according to his will. Not "Free Will", in the sense of Libertarian Free Will, but man is still responsible for their own actions, because they are the ones committing the acts. In this sense, man humbles himself *and* God decreed it. It is a both/and, not an either/or.
If you disagree with that, then I am completely unfamiliar with the kind of Calvinism you are presenting. It is not the Calvinism I read from John Calvin.
@@Narikku if men are responsible for their own actions, then every single men will end up in hell, except the LORD Jesus Christ.
Actually there is no way to know if you are elect from a Calvinist belief system
100%. So for a Calvinist to claim they are elect is at best wishful thinking.
John 10:28
Of course there is. Do you trust in Christ alone as He is presented in scripture? You’re elect. You won’t believe in Christ unless your heart of stone is removed and given a heart of flesh. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
@@JonathanGrandt wrong. No idea what you’re talking about. If you believe in Jesus Christ as presented in the scripture you’re elect. It’s really not difficult to understand.
@@KnightFel no because God could have just determined for you to think you believe in Jesus Christ, but really you’re still reprobate.
As a Christian, I simply believe the Bible.
The Bible says that we're all sinners who've fallen short of God's glory and are therefore condemned to hell.
But, God loves us so much that he sent his son to die in our place and on our behalf.
Any who believe in him have eternal life and are not condemned while any who do not believe are condemned already.
Calvinists and others make this so confusing and convoluted. It's really not.
I sinned against God. Jesus paid for my sins. I believe in him for eternal life.
🎯
False dichotomy. Arminianism is a branch off Calvinism. Both believe and affirm prevenient grace in order to be saved. They are not very different. Both have a skewed understanding of election.
Each use of the word "elect" and "chosen" have a context that differs. Be aware of that!
Wrong
@@gabrieledean8225 right. Lol
Election and salvation are not the same. Election points you in the right direction; salvation follows if you faithfully stay on the path.
That stretching the definition of prideful. That’s saying any good decision you make is prideful. That’s insanity.
"Election" refers to service, not salvation.
elaborate?
Matthew 24:31
[31] And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is about salvation.
@@FisherOfMenParakletos He’s twisting the Bible to justify his doctrine.
@@ShepherdMinistry i know, but i value edifying christians as well as evangelizing
@@ShepherdMinistry so is the great commission just busy work to keep us occupied?
Jesus died for everyone; for the whole world. That is a fact.
1 John 2:1
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Well let’s find out.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
@@ShepherdMinistry
In what way does God draw us then? I don’t see one exact way anywhere in the Bible. To some he come in dreams, others just in a whisper or in visions and so on. God comes to everyone encouraging them to repent. I ask you to study the parable of the marriage feast, there you see the king orders the servants as such:
Matthew 22:8
8The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good.”’
Likewise God invites everyone on earth to be apart of his family just as the king invited all whom his servants found in the streets.
@@buddy_132
I’m asking you if God offers everyone the gift of salvation, why did you choose to accept?
@@ShepherdMinistry
I accepted God because I feared Him. God showed me a dream of me burning and told me to get baptized and I did. Woke me up instantly.
@@buddy_132 Praise God for this dream and for your salvation!
So, you’re saying you chose God because you were more fearful than the unbeliever and because God showed you a dream that He may have not done for the unbeliever?
Jesus said whoever believes in Me shall not perish but have eternal life. Seems to me He's giving you a choice which you have to place your faith or not place your faith in Jesus Christ. This is why John 3:16 through 18 it's very clear. So it is not prideful if you accept or reject Christ is prideful When You Believe you yourself were chosen and your neighbor wasn't.
But I was chosen. And my household wasn't. And no one can come to the Father unless the Father calls and the son chooses. So if you're going to be umbilical stop judging those who want to be.
@@brendanbrady1291 you sound like a Pharisee.
@@brendanbrady1291 Umbilical, lol. -Don't- Please edit that. Do you feel sad for your household?
@@brendanbrady1291 yet John 6: 29-40 tell you both the works and will of God.. neither of which says anything about *chosen*. It says believe both times.
One thing I’ve gathered from your heretical crowd in addition to you believing faith is a work, is it seems you both deny dispensations (even though the very word is mentioned 4 times in scripture), and you believe all the Bible is written for you
All of the Bible is for us, but not all the Bible is about us. Case and and point:
Ephesians 1-13 - Calvinist crowd uses verses 1-12 but ignores verse 13 which is the answer to thr question verses 1-12 ask, and the answer is believe after hearing the gospel.
John 6-17 - more sets of passages Calvinists use to justify there belief but this entire set of scripture Jesus is speaking to his disciples. This is a dispensations issue
Matthew 13 - again Jesus is speaking to Jews not gentiles.
Those of you really need to learn to rightly divide the word of truth. Understand dispensations. Learn to take the whole chapter into context (and the book for that matter) and never leave our verses that disprove your belief
@@Brii.Z your listing of Ephesians 1 there 👏🎯
So what you are saying is God for no apparent reason chose to allow one wretched person to repent but not another. So you believe when he creates everyone’s soul He plays “Eeny, meeny, miny, moe” and lucky you got picked! How wonderful for you! But poor Willie next to you was determined to go to Hell. Well then don’t worry about praying for him cause God says not this guy, just because He felt like it. But wait what about the following verse?
2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” And this verse is referring to everyone because if he was just talking about the “elect” it wouldn’t make sense because the elect cannot perish.
This verse seems to indicate that He is not WILLING that any should perish! But I thought according to you that God determines by HIS will that he already wills arbitrarily those He wants to perish?
I can watch and tape a football game and allow my friend to watch the taped game. He does not know the outcome but I do so I choose the winning team that wins because I know the outcome, but I did not determine it, I just allowed it to play itself out. Brother your attempt at defending Calvinism is weak, not well thought out, and a bit childish. Calvinistic interpretation of the Character of God, makes God out to be an unloving God.
So in these last days choosing to obey God in love is now being defined as being prideful? Wow unto you.
(Isaiah 5:20 / 2 Timothy 3)
"That which is good will be called evil and that which is evil will be called good"...so naturally these days it will be called evil to think that turning from our wickedness to serve our Creator rather than ourselves will be defined as "prideful".
Well, not exactly that. But thinking you are saved because you chose God by yourself and that you are a christian because of your choice and not His choice is prideful. There's a reason Paul emphasizes this: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Even your faith is a gift from God. Now that you are saved, you can choose to obey him in humbleness knowing He was the one who loved you first while you were an enemy of God.
If you are unconditionally chosen then why do we see so many families that are all saved. Why not just pick one of the kids, why often nearly all the kids.
It’s almost like either God coincidentally chooses entire families or God doesn’t unconditionally choose people and choose based on circumstances or more likely that the kids learn about God from their parents devotion to God and that is a major part of what leads them to choose to believe so then they may be saved and have life
So essentially either you and your family got really lucky with unconditional election or maybe election is conditional on something to do with us. This is just one of the logical inconsistencies I struggle with when it comes to Calvinism
Jesus said He calls many but few are chosen. Basically God just chose to reach out His hand to an undisclosed number he chose and some reach out
Exactly!!! I love John MacArthur's quote where he says, I'm a calvinist because the bible didn't give me a choice. I was more in the arminian camp before I was born again. I grew thinking I was saved because I said the prayer and got baptized and I made the choices and did the things, all while living like everyone else. But then, I was born again at 35 and knew that it was all from God. Thank you, Father, for opening my eyes and ears, and changing my heart and mind to Your Truth. All glory to God alone. I get none.
He’s a Calvinist because of poor reading comprehension.
@@TheRomans9Guy No. I don't think so.
Same, grew up in church, and my youth pastor told me I was saved, so I just got in line for the dunk tank. But right about 35 my eyes were really opened, and it was like night/day difference. I don’t know what I am, I don’t care about those terms, but I’m saved. 😆
@@JohnDee633 Hallelujah 🙌 Praise the Lord
@@StaceeMassey hi Stacee, it really is poor reading comprehension that leads to Calvinism. Especially at the major foundational scriptures, Romans 9, Ephesians 1 and John 6.
When believers make out their gospel that Jesus chose them over Christ died and was resurrected, that's where I refuse their doctrine.
Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he took Paul's approach:
I preach Christ crucified.
Second, I'm not a Calvinist. I don't follow a man's belief, I follow Christ.
Third, it's about Christ crucified, not "God chose me." If God chose some for salvation, He chose the rest for hell.
Not the God I know and worship. He sent His Sin so NO ONE should perish and commands ALL to repentance.
In His For-knowledge he chose us. You can’t explain John 3:16 or John 12:32 as a Calvinist
John 3:16, last 3 words didn't say get eternal salvation, but 'have eternal salvation.' If you say whosoever work have a job or jobs, you are implying that you already have a job. If you say that I have this at home, you are implying that you are already in possession of this at home. Therefore, the believers are already in possession of eternal life. You do not believe in order to get eteranl life, but believing in Christ shows the work of God in you (John 6:29), and gave you the power to believe in Him.
As for John 12:32, one would have to keep reading. John 12:37 asked, ' Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?' This passage is also mentioned in Isiah 53:1, and the second question reveal the answer to the first. Who hath believed our report? Answer: To whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed implying that those are the people who are capable of believing the report, the ones that the LORD revealed it to.
And since not everyone believes in Him, it shows that the LORD didn't reveal Himself to the unbelievers, or at least not yet. Therefore, the LORD didn't drawn all men, in terms of everyone of this world, but all of the elect family of God.
PS: Not a Calvinist, but I consider myself a Primitive Baptist.
@@janeyue7491 If you believe I have a collection of star wars figures you can have them. Does that mean you have them already? no, it's conditional on the belief that I have them.
@@alfrael6424 the dictionary definition of 'have' is 'possess, own, or hold:' Therefore, when the scripture says.. 'whosoever believeth... have everlasting life,' in that context, it means the believers of Jesus Christ are already in possession of eternal life. This fix the scripture because it doesn't have the word 'can' in front of the word 'have' but whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life, but if you add the word 'can have everlasting life,' since you mentioned, 'you can have them,' adding the word can in front of have, than you are unto something.
Let's try another way of explanation. Let's read John 3:18 and see if the tenses matches with John 3:16. John 3:18 states, ' He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.; Notice the tenses here 'but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY!' Already is a past tense, so if we go back to John 3:16, it seems that God already separated the believers and the nonbelievers.
So, if you put it into content (since John 3:18 is a nearby verses), it must match with the tenses. John 3:16 couldn't possibly be an invitation for non-believers to believe in Christ because in V18, it mentioned that the nonbelievers are condemned 'already' implying that God has already separated the believers from the nonbelievers. Therefore, John 3:16 is not an invitation for nonbelievers to believe in Him, but it is an assurance that the believers are already in possession of everlasting life.
So grammatically, since John 3:18 uses the word 'already' which is past tense, it would only make sense that John 3:16 is not a future tense, as in the believers of Christ 'can have' or 'will have' as you have previously mentioned, but 'have eternal life,' which means that they are already in possession of Eternal Salvation. Therefore, you do not get to heaven because you believe in Him, but the fact that you believe in Him is one of the evidence that you are already a child of God who is already in possession of eternal life.
“Whosoever” is not in the Greek manuscripts for John 3:16……it actually says ‘the Son, the only begotten one he gave that everyone believing in him not should perish but might have life eternal.”….. so the real question is why do people like you who stand on John 3:16 don’t even know what it actually says ?
HA ha good video!! It all boils down to giving God all the glory or robbing Him of it for yourself.
Yes the words elect, chosen, and predestination appear in the Bible. But we must examine what the use of such words are in the context they are written. Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." The calvinist reads this and think it's saying he chose/predestined all individual who will be saved before the foundation of the world. The arminian thinks God picked for salvation those individuals whom he knew would have faith. The Bible believer carefully examines this verse within its context, and realizes this was God's plan centered on Christ. He chose all those who will ever place their faith in his son. It tells us what we are chosen for=to be holy and blameless. Ephesians 1:4 is not about how someone comes to be in Christ, but it's about the destination of all who will be in Christ through faith. Ephesians 1:13 "and you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised holy spirit." -These new converts were not IN HIM until they believed, but once they believed they are now among those IN CHRIST who have a new glorious destiny. The calvinist and arminian takes the focus off Christ and puts it on man. Ephesians 1:9 "he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ"
Okay, now let's see you do Romans 8-9, basically every intro to a Pauline book, and all of John.
@@ks23770 ok i will do that, but i need to read through it first. Please read through ALL of ephesians, so that you will see the theme which is about the wonderful blessings in Christ. Ephesians 1:3 "How we praise God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessings in the heavenly realms because we belong to Christ." Ephesians 3:8 "...I was chosen for this special joy of telling the gentiles about the endless treasures available to them IN CHRIST. " God had decided before the world was created to bless all those who will ever belong to his son. Ephesians 3:11 "This was the plan from all eternity, and it has now been carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 16:7 Salute andronicus and junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles who also were IN CHRIST before me. Paul was not in Christ before he was saved.
@@jameshoyt3692 I love Ephesians!
And I see one of the issues. Calvinists don't believe someone is presaved or whatever you're trying to infer. Salvation of a purpose, though predestined, still happens within time. Hope that helps!
@@ks23770 I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Which verses in ephesians are you referring to?
@@ks23770 oh ok. I get what you're saying. You believe we were predestined to be in him before the foundation of the world. But then saved and put in him in time. There's at least two problems with that brother. That's not what it says number one. And secondly, you are saying that outside of Christ you were sealed, secured, and had a glorious future.
You've fundamentally misunderstood the non-calvanist (armenian) view of election. Armenians do not believe "God chose us because he knew we would choose him" that is actually often what Armenians often think that calvanists believe (which is also false). Its a straw man that both armenians and calvanists use for the other, but as far as i can tell, no one actually holds this position. Armenians instead believe that God chose everyone in the whole world through grace so that everyone could choose to believe in him by faith. John 3:16 plain and simple. You can disagree with this view, but please be humble and be sure not to misrepresent the other view you disagree with. God bless!
*Arminians 😅
I don’t want to debate, but I have heard Arminians articulate exactly what I said in the video. I understand election based on foreseen faith is not the only perspective, but it’s not true that no one holds it. Arminians are not the only non-Calvinistic group. And I’ve had this exact conversation with people.
@ConversationswithaCalvinist fair enough brother no need to debate. I'm just asking that you might consider being more generous with how you listen and portray others views. I understand the video was mostly exaggerated and satirical and I'm not offended. In fact I found it funny. But just be careful, the character in your video representing the opposing view was calling your views prideful, which is wrong, but making a video like this to call that kind of person out might not be the most humble either. I might be wrong I don't think at all that your intentions are bad, I'm just saying to be careful and try to be generous and gracious to people like that. Don't fall into the temptation to be spiteful in return. Good videos. Keep it up!
Thanks for that thought bro, and I appreciate the kindness of your interaction. I'll definitely keep it in mind in the future. Blessings! @@Joseph_David_Music_
Calvanism- the doctrine of a murder
1 John 3:15 KJV
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
so dumb
Have you ever hated a brother in your heart?
@Levi Williams no sir. Assuming were properly defining hate. Do I get angry at people? Sure. If you're actually hating people, i would encourage you to get before the LORD.
Show me a scripture where election and chosen is FOR SALVATION or DAMNATION.
John calvin says God sends people to eternal hell for his glory, Bible teaches God takes no pleasure for the destruction of the wicked and asks them to choose life.
If Calvinism was the ture Gospel, no pastor would have to go out of his way to slowly sneak in the doctrine of TULIP. Unfortunately there are endless testimonies where their churches where spilt because the pastor was not truthful.
Mark 13:27 election is speaking of slavation
@@ShepherdMinistry with respect in it's right context this it talking about those who believe in Jesus in the last days. Its not unconditional election for salvation before the foundation of the world.
@@susiedyck4914 Is it speaking of the elect being saved, yes or no?
@@ShepherdMinistry ABSOLUTELY! But this elect (who so ever believes) different from the election calvanist talk about correct??
@@susiedyck4914 No. at least that’s not what Calvinists believe. Who ever believes is the elect.
How do people agree with Calvinism? This is what Romans 10:9-13 says
“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.””
Romans 10:9-13 NIV
Perfect summary to tell a Calvinist that all are welcome to hear the Word of the Lord and be saved.
Hey brother, Calvinists believe those verses. But, you’re only looking at one half of what Calvinists believe. This is why you don’t understand their view.
That doesn't really refute Reformed theology. We choose God, yes, but because God chose us. Also, we're not the only denomination who believes in predestination (Lutherans believe in single predestination, we believe in double)
I had the same feelings when I first learned about some people believed in the elect. And now that I too believe that, I was so wrong. I've never been more humbled than when I realized I truly had nothing to do with my salvation. It wasn't a choice I made. I never had a choice in the matter. I don't know why God would choose me but I am so thankful.
Um, how do you know God made you one of his elect? Because you think so?
Pride not because they are elect all who believe are elect but Pride because many Calvinist think they have it all figured out snd. Look down there noses at other believers, interesting that many who follow Calvin are Amill and teach infant baptism both which are unbiblical, Calvin and Luther were both Roman Catholic in background and because of this they found some biblical truths but kept some of the traditional Catholic baggage which means they should show some humility and realize some of what many of them hold to has no biblical support, The Sola Scriptura statement is made but much of the time only when it is convenient,
It's not that non Calvinists believe that we are chosen specifically, in fact the bible states that God came down to earth for us all, we are all chosen and loved by God whether we are a Christain or not, it's whether we decide to believe in him and accept the gift given to us all through his son.
Chosen for what ? And if our will is such a big factor what hope do we have that heaven will truly be the end of sin? Adam and Eve sin and had no inherent sin nature neither did the devil or all the fallen angels. How can God promise us eternity without being sovereign beyond our will?
@@rebirthofgodrics907 @rebirthofgodrics907 @rebirthofgodrics907 Jesus has chosen us humans to receive the gift given to us through his son, the gift is eternal life with him in heaven, we have hope that heaven will be the end of sin because God says so in his word. He ultimately has the last word, but he chooses to allow us to choose him or not to choose him, it's a gift not a forced requirement. He is sovereign, but he's not a dictator, the fact that he gave us the choice means that he is sovereign. the fact that God gave us the gift of free will and the gift of eternal life should be proof enough of his sovereignty, the bible clearly states that.
Well let’s find out.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
Calvinism in a nutshell (when they’re painted into a corner) say that faith is a work. Ephesians 2: 8-10 obviously disproves this.
As deceptive as many of them can be, ask the right questions, get them talking out of both sides of their mouth, they will ultimately call faith a work.
No, Calvinist do not say faith is a work. They do, however, say " For [it is] by grace you have been saved through faith, and this [is] not from yourselves, [it is] the gift of God, [it is] not from works, so that no-one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that in them we might walk. (Eph 2:8-10)"
I'm a hell-bound hyper-Calvinist. I believe that I was elected for eternal damnation.
Please don't except what a false doctrine teaches. God loves you and is waiting for you with open arms to accept his free gift of salvation.
@delightfulBeverage Eternal damnation is just the need of discipline to get the right direction. In Europe there are many calvinist churches who always focus on being damned for God, as God is with the brokenhearted and the least, not the 'greatest'. The first will be the last, last will be the first. It's just in the Americas where eternal damnation has been extremely demonized and taken out out of context.
Calvinists fight strawmen.
I've literally watched, and had these conversations with others. this is the furthest thing from a strawman.
The apostle Paul writes Colossians and calls members of the Body of Christ, US, the ELECT. Here it is in context
[] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
[] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
[] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
[] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
[] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
[] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
[] Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Paul writes that Christ died and gave his life a ransom for ALL
If that is true and it is then ALL are elected to come to the knowledge of the gospel and believe it. Our gospel is that Jesus Christ shed his blood for the forgiveness of our sin, his death, burial and resurrection give us eternal life. All that believe that gospel. 1 Cor. 15
Neither is prideful
I just had a girl telling me that I called her stupid by saying that obviously we cannot choose to come to Christ on our own... "Superior attitude" she called
They project a lot. Very haughty folks. Granted some of calvinists belong in a cage for a period...
We won't come to Christ on our own. Carnal mind and sin wants no God to expose them.
What bothers me is Calvinists believe they can't resist God yet, they still sin.
They act like they're special over the rest of us.
@@n9wff your comment makes no sense. Everybody sins
@@nunyabusiness5275
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things I wrote unto you, that ye sin less.
Jesus told the adulteress "go and sin less."
John 1:29
...Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away some sin of the world.
I know what you are going to follow up on. Am I sinless and perfect? I make every attempt to see temptation and find the way out that God gives. You make this sound perfectly reasonable to sin and boast about it.
Calvinists believe in irresistible grace. This grace cannot be refuted by this believer and should also have the ability to overcome sin, as it would abound more than sin in every way, thus, taking dominion over it the instant a Calvinist is saved. Yet, Calvinists like you act like this is the normal life of a believer.
Christianity is not a sinning religion.
I think the issue is that neither side really takes the time to get to know what the other believe. I was raised traditional Baptist and came to believe in reformed theology later in my Christian walk. Unfortunately many treat people who have different interpretations of key passages of scripture as the enemy when we believe the same core doctrines. Christ is God, He died on the cross for sins, and was raised on the third day. We have much more in common than not common but yet we’re so hostile. For any that would be interested in learning what true Calvinism is I will attempt to explain in just a few sentences, but it is important to understand there is much to know and it could be beneficial to study it on your own even to help you understand your convictions even more. It is important to point out that the sovereignty of God in salvation is not something you preach to those who are not saved. To those who are not saved they receive the gospel plain and simple. Repent and believe. After salvation the understanding that your salvation was all of God’s work becomes exceedingly wonderful because the graciousness of God is so wonderful. To many I think the main doctrine that helps people understand Calvinism a little better is the T or total depravity. I prefer the term absolute inability. This doctrine teaches that after the Fall and sin entered man’s heart that man spiritually died. Ephesians 2:1. Not sick, not separated from God, not just really sinful, but spiritually dead. A complete nature change. This is why the idea of free will doesn’t come into effect with the choice of salvation because to exercise faith is a “good” act in fact it is the only act man can do that is “good” or that pleases God. However, by nature you could not and even would not make that exercise of faith because by nature you desired nothing from God. You hated God. This is why God had to change your heart to take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Then of course you believed because your eyes were opened. God bless. I’d highly recommend the message series The doctrines of Grace by John MacArthur on the Grace to You app which is free. God bless brothers and sisters keep reading scripture and diving deeper into God’s awesome nature.
Love requires freedom, meaning free creatures, we humans must want to choose Him, meaning we choose, so then He lovingly gives us a drop of grace, something we dont deserve.
Why cant people understand this ,its really simple lol.
Does that mean parents can't love their children or children their parents? Las time I checked, people aren't born based on their own free will decision, but based completely on the choices of other parties. And Jesus even used that as a point of comparison regarding born again, it is as the Spirit moves, not how many moves.
But if such a freewill violating act as conception can still produce a loving relationship between parent and child, how much more would God's free will act to bring salvation to his children be an especially loving act that can produce the deepest most intimate of love between God and his people?
As a free will gal, coming to a saving faith is the realization of how wretched I am and that I need a Savior. It's a humbling experience not a prideful one.
I do not believe in Calvinism. A loving God would not create people with the purpose of sending them to hell. He gives us ALL a choice to receive the gift of salvation.
That is only one view of Calvinism. Don't be dumb. Infralapsarianism is another different one. There is a reason the great theologians in history were Calvinists.
That's supralapsarian Calvinism, not infralapsarian Calvinism (which was the position of Calvin, supralapsarianism was the position of his successor, Theodore Beza)
Romans 9 very explicitly contradicts what you’re saying
To those who say that he destroyed a strawman. I was in an IFB church who constantly hammered on the "he chose you because you chose him" doctrine. It is an arguement that is being used.
True love only comes from free will. God could make us all do whatever he wants, but he wants us to love him of our own volition.
Has a Christian I just tried to focus on on my relationship with the Lord Jesus I try not to think too much about Calvinism because my mind overthinks and I start thinking if I'm really saved or if I'm really a child of God. There are a few evidence that someone has saved and one of them is a love what the lord loves and they hate wicked things and they don't want to do them anymore because the Holy Spirit lives in them. Secondly their language changes where it's no foul language or cuss words that comes out of their mouth. Even though our flesh can get to us at times I understand that. I know people have their own opinions and I understand that but we need to understand the context of scripture cannot look at one first but look at quite a few versus everything in large word. It's kind of hard for me to think that God only chooses certain people to get saved and not others. I know I believe that the Lord gives us free will but he also searches for people to love him freely and have a relationship with him freely and he does send us love letters and flowers to us every day but some people reject his love letters and flowers.what I mean by Is this Love letters and flowers if it's his word or someone watching TV or listening to a radio and they hear or watching a pastor preaching the gospel and preaching sin. An atheist can walk on the street somewhere and they pick up something and all of a sudden it's the gospel tract and they can convicted of their sins and that's when the Holy Spirit will work in that person. I know that with me understanding the Lord's character that the Lord won't Force his love upon anyone because true love and has to be freely given it cannot be forced. Just like I can't force my love upon anyone either. I would love for a brother or a sister in Christ they have a nice dialogue and conversation...✍️✝️🇺🇸❤️ Ps I love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ remember the focus our minds on Jesus Christ in our relationship with him and to let our light shine in the dark world that's why people will see Christ like character within us.
Only thing I learned is this video is prideful.
I love the Trucker caps and John Deere hoodies. Nice accent too. We country folk sure am glad you cleared things up f'er us. 🎉
Accepting the gift of God by exercising your free will requires a lot of humility, no pride there.
Amen!
Proverbs 22:4
“By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.”
Calling it pride is gaslighting.
Bravo. On point. :D I don't even understand why the term calvinist exists. It's several times written in the bible that believers are the chosen ones. Plus the fact that god knows everything about our lives before it happens and he made everything.
Love this...I've been on both sides of the fence.First by flesh then by spirit. You had no choice in being born. Nor do you have a choice to be born by spirit. People have a hard time accepting that they are created. And a created thing will do what it's created for.
We are all born with a spirit and flesh.
We don't have a choice to be born of the Holy Spirit because once we have been fully persuaded to believe the testimony that God gave of His Son, He seals us with the Holy Spirit "against our will" and counts us as His simply because we believed Him.
The flesh desires the things of the world and our spirit desires the things from above which is why we experience the pain of regret and shame when we walk in the flesh but thank God He didn't create us with flesh alone.
Matthew 26:41
“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
When we receive the Holy Spirit by faith, it becomes two against one 🦾
Even the elect struggle with doubt if their hearts are humble. But he made us and chose us before the foundation of the world to walk in the good works he prepared for us.
Those who stumble over Christ were also ordained to do so. Many don't see or consider the severity of God. Just sunshine and rainbows for many. No consideration for the suffering that we must endure for belonging to Him. But it's purely good. Because if we love God and were called according to his purpose, we know that all things are working together for good.
Now this is the prime meat to choose from!
😂
Prime meat is an excellent example of what Elect means. ELECT means “the best”. So an idea like “select cut” or “top shelf” is what Elect implies.
@@JonathanGrandt It becomes the top shelf because of Gods regenerating work. They weren’t saved in that condition.
'God' (I always put Him in the ' marks because I certainly do not understand Him - - - but then He does repeatedly tell us He is beyond our understanding . . . ) anyhow 'God' knew who would call on Him for salvation and who would reject Him. I did ask Him what about the person who will say "If you had blinded me like Paul, I would have gotten saved. Why did you blind Paul, but not me?" 'God' answered me - "First of all I am God and do not have to answer you. But I will give you the answer. I KNEW Paul would stay faithful despite his many beatings. But you, I KNEW if I blinded you, yes, you would have gotten 'saved' but then when the hard times came, you would have 'left the faith'. SO that is why I did not waste My time to blind you." David Adams, Mobile, AL
1 SAMUEL 2:25
If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, "BECAUSE THE LORD DESIRED TO KILL THEM".
Jesus heart is grieved to see brothers and sisters in Christ continuously arguing about semantics. This is exactly what all the different sects of Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes were doing in Jesus day. This heart posture is no different. We need more discussions to sharpen each other and at least reach mutual understanding. Not more arguments of theological "theories" which is exactly what both Calvinism and Armenianism are.
Calvinism is a Heresy. Hashem doesn't predetermine who is saved, and who isn't. You make your own choices according to the Tanakh.
The Arminian philosophy is not what you portrayed in your strawman.
The belief is God has chosen ALL men (John 3:16) but not all men choose God.
The whole point of the Gospel is the thing called free will. Why would Jesus die for the elect? To make them feel good that they where elected? And John 3 16 is what then?
Yes you are prideful, needing God to pre determine everything for you to feel special and elected, because the only way we would need to be elected is if we has no free will, so why even send Jesus to die and suffer? As an act of worship to the elect? Don't y'all see the issue here? You think God send for you, but the Gospel clearly says is us who should come to Christ. You have it backwards. I pray you wake up to the truth.
There is no doctrine of free will in the Bible. Paul even devoted two chapters of the book of Romans explicitly saying that God controls the destiny and decisions of men. The other apostles constantly reverence predestination in there epistles. It so clear that Free Will isn’t a thing in the Bible that it not even funny.
@Cj Jc So if there's no free will, what did Jesus die for? If God predetermines the saved, what's the purpose of Jesus dying as the way of salvation, if we don't even have the free will to believe in Him? Don't you realize that without free will everything is meaningless? Next time you sin, are you gonna blame God for making you sin?
@I Love Jesus Will you blame God next time you sin? Just curious. How are you a sinner if all you do is the will of God? And why would you even need Jesus then? To save you from the sin He also predestined you to do?
@I Love Jesus that's what I believe too, God can do whatever He wants, he can allow us to have free will, and He can also predestine anyone to be saved. I just don't buy into God predestination of sin and evil, but He can and does allow it, according to His will.
@@ByGraceThroughFaith777 Well take it up with God. Just read Romans Chapter 9. Why do you think you had any part in your salvation? What human quality or characteristic would make one person believe and the other not? It blatantly states that God keeps the heart of unbelievers blind via Satan to hid the truth of the gospel and he pre destined people base on grace to believe.
I think this is an argument that we believers shouldn't have. It's like trying to look into the programming rather than using the user's end. There is a tension that we mortals can't wrap.our minds around.
There is election.
God also says repeatedly throughout the Bible "if you will..then I will, but if you...then I will" which clearly speaks of giving people a choice.
It's beyond my miniscule intellect
Calvinism is masterpiece of deception. Why? Because its a mirror of Jean Cauvin's heart & soul; dark, twisted, vile, murderous and filled with rage and hate.
If Calvinism is true, this would absolve the Devil of all wrongdoing.
That's a very non-Christian view to even think that satan and the demons have the ability to be saved at all.
@@goosieschmoo8239 my comment was more or less addressing the Calvinist claim that God predestined a elect few to salvation while condemning the rest to eternal, conscious torment in the Lake of Fire. Calvinism goes as far as to claim that God predestined sin. If this is true, we logically cannot blame Satan or his demons for sin, since it was created by God before the creation of the world.
@@The_OrthoBully God didn't create sin. Sin is a lack of holiness. And since God is holy, He cannot create it. God can allow things to happen for His purposes (ex: what man meant for evil God meant for Good).
it's amusing how you hate the very biblical truth of predestination and election when it's in fact spoken about all throughout the bible. Also, the early church fathers spoke of it as well as many other important Christians that preceeded calvin. Calvin did not come up with these very concepts himself. He merely made it easy for us to understand.
Just a few examples of people who spoke of these things as well were St Augustine of Hippo (354 AD-430AD) and John Wycliffe (died in 1384). Calvin was born in the 1500s. Would you dare call them calvinists when these men existed well before he did?
there would also be no need for the cross- why would Jesus suffer the cross if the Calvinists already have their winning lotto ticket to heaven - seems like a lot of trouble for nothing
@@kristophstjames4143 .....that's not how calvinists think. How would there be salvation for those who are going to be saved if Christ didn't die on the cross? You're just spouting off stuff you know no one actually believes.
Which is the more prideful position - that God views all sinners as equally worthy of damnation but extends the gospel to anyone who responds in faith…
or that God effectively thought you deserved more than hell and picked you to be saved?
It is unscriptural and false, and yes arrogant, for someone to claim they were specially chosen by God: Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:34-35.
Well let’s find out if you’re right.
The Calvinist believe they were not chosen due to anything of themselves but of God.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
@@ShepherdMinistry - God offers salvation to ALL and then gives ALL the ability to put their faith in Him, and then, in His Sovereignty, grants them volition to choose who they wish to serve. Those who receive that offer and put their faith in Him are saved, those who don’t are damned….Christianity 101. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (Heb 4:2).
@@Bobepc So, if He gives all the ability to place their faith in Him, why did you?
@@ShepherdMinistry - Because my conscience bore witness with the Gospel and I did not reject its prompting....as many, unfortunately, do. Its mans stubbornness and rebellion that keep them from the Kingdom....not God.
@@Bobepc So, are you saying you did not reject the message because you are not stubborn and rebellious like the unbeliever?
Amen brother! I do hope the Arminians in this comment section do come to understand this truth! It is philosophically and theologically deep making it hard to grasp, and it can also be hard to stomach emotionally, but the scriptures teach it plain and clear. I spent a long time as a strong Arminian, I hated Calvinism. But it turned out I did not understand it, and I was just fighting with Gods word! It is a wonderful truth when grasped, and if I had to bet on anything being almost certainly true in the bible, Calvinism would be that truth.
The prideful attribute of Calvinists is that they are, in my experience, NEVER willing to entertain the idea that they could be wrong about what scripture says.
I believe in Sola scriptura, and I can't see how anyone could be a Calvinist after thoughtfully and openly reading the Bible.
Also, faith is not a work...
John 6:29 'Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.' The fact that one believe in Christ is a work, not our work, but the work of God. And it takes faith to believe, therefore, faith is a work, not our work, but the work of God!
@Jane Yue Where in the whole Bible is belief described as a work.
I'm pretty sure faith is not a work. Believing doesn't result in anything without the work of God.
@@travissharon1536 I have written it above, and I will requote this again.
John 6:29 'Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.' So, the fact that you believe in Him is a work, but not our work, but the work of God. Therefore, belief is not only faith, but the work of God.
Which would fit John 6:47 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.' It didn't say he gets eternal life, but it states that he has it.
And therefore, it is the power of God that ye believe in Him. And so what about the unbelievers? On the flip side, either God didn't work in those unbelievers yet, by providing them a new heart and put the Holy Spirit in them yet (Ezek 36:26), or they are the children of the devil aka the tares, the goats.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
The thing is, predestination and election is all throughout the bible. People like to try to claim that calvin himself came up with those concepts himself.
@travissharon1536
You can make the bible say anything you want it to say, some people are very creative in it, hence the thousands and thousands of different denominations. It's the same with any other religious book. It has multiple interpretation as it is not linear. God is laughing his ass off in heaven because of what silly humans made of it, as a matter of speech.
Sterile premise, IMO. Both Keiths here are under the assumption that regeneration precedes faith (the cornerstone of Calvinism, according to the late R.C. Sproul) - that we're chosen _in order that_ we will believe. Problem is, Jesus said to His opponents, "you are not willing to come to me (in faith) so that you may have life (i.e. be regenerated)"
(Jhn.5.40), *not,* "I am not willing to give you life (i.e. regenerate you) so that you may come to me (in faith)", and elsewhere, "your faith has made you whole" (e.g. Mat.9.22).
Non-Calvinist Keith is trying to say God saved him before he had faith *because* he foresaw that he would have faith, which is still a very Calvinist thing to say, and Calvinist Keith's point of contention is what follows "because". Here's the thing, brother: One only need identify with either character if he assumes that that the yet unregenerate are *unable to respond** _(positively)_ to the Gospel.
Calvinism stretches the metaphor of being "dead" in trespasses to the extent that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the power of God unto salvation, but rather, Irresistible Grace/pre-faith regeneration is, but Arminianism is only one step short of that. Where I come from, we have neither. Hence, Provisionism.
* which _would_ literally mean they're not response-able, but Calvinism doesn't care, 'cus it thinks "who are you that repliest against God" is meant to rebut this point.
“The Bible says that we are chosen”
Yep
To be conformed
Jesus chose the apostles from the disciples
God/Jesus did not choose people for salvation
Sorry gnostics
Wrong again
“According to His foreknowledge”
So you're telling me that accepting the gift of God is a prideful act?
They ultimately call faith a work, that is their problem
Well let’s find out.
Why did you choose God, IF He draws everyone the exact same way?
@@Brii.Z No, Calvinists do not call faith a work of man. Only a work of God. But the non Calvinists believes good works lead to their act of faith.
@@ShepherdMinistry Who is saying that God draws all men the exact same way? Certainly not any non-Calvinist that I know. God absolutely dispenses grace unequally. We are not denying that, but what the Calvinist denies is that ALL men are given grace by God. The mere fact that we breathe "freely" and are not struck down at birth is evident of that. Read Romans 1.
Who will recieve a greater reward at the judgement seat of Christ? The individual whom God poured out abundant grace upon and whom answered the call and served God faithfully or the individual in whom little grace was given and yet they also served God faithfully? This is where Calvinism fails in light of Scripture and where the absolute ridiculous false accusations towards anyone who does not bow down to this theological construct that todays seminaries are teaching comes from. "You hate the God of the Bible" is often used. I have personally been told that many times by Covenant Theology/Calvinists. Our pulpits are being filled daily by men who attend Bible college and are taught this. Long gone are the days of called men of God who simply preach the word and are respected without a degree of indoctrination.
@@ShepherdMinistrywe simply respond to Gods call. Where’s the pride in that?
1. I would never argue that all Calvinists are prideful nor would I argue that all non-Calvinists are prideful. I have known people gotten carried away with pride on both sides. Pride tends to pop up when someone is believes they have the right answer to a question.
2. A person who accepts the has to humbly amid they can not save themselves. We must rely on what Christ has done not on what we can do.
3. Just because the non-Calvinist believes people make libertarian choices doesn’t mean we are boasting. We are making a choice not to trust ourselves. That is humbling and we anyone can do this. It the fault of the person who rejects if they choose to do that. Therefore we put the blame of damnation on man and not on God.
4. Yes, we believe in election. We are elect in Christ when we put our faith in him that is when we become the elect. we are saved by grace through faith not given grace so that we can have faith.
Lol read romans calvinism isn’t biblical
Lol Romans 8 is Calvinistic
If you make one pot for honorable use and one for dishonorable use who is the pot say anything and who are you oh man to answer back to God?
@@brendanbrady1291 I don’t see where god chooses who will believe and who will not, actually it shows god is a gentleman and allows us to make the decision to believe and follow him. Jesus died for us but we choose if we accept his sacrifice
@@jasonbuben2653 "as man as we're appointed for eternal life believed" and did you really say God is a gentleman. You know God didn't ask anyone if they wanted to be created he just created them because he's God.
@@brendanbrady1291 how was he supposed to ask if he was the only one in existence? God wanted relationships just like we as humans desire. So why is it hard to believe that god wanted to create man so that he could have relationships based around love, which love only comes from free will.
Calvinist is like a derogatory term these days. They hate you because you teach sound doctrine. You are saved by grace through faith, this is the gift of God, not of yourself, so that no man may boast. Everyone's an arminian until they read John chapter 8! Or John 10 as well. Maybe Matthew 13 too. Oh wait, the entire Bible teaches it. Just look at Noah's ark -- do you really think Noah was inherently more righteous than anybody else who lived at the time? Or was Noah made righteous by God before the foundation of the world, as Ephesians says?
More taking things out of context.
Summarize Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, then copy/paste Ephesians 2: 8-10, as it contradicts Ephesians 1:4 as a Calvinist belief.
Look at Ephesians 1: 1-12 as a question, how does 1 become ‘in him’ like Ephesians 1:4 gets used incorrectly. Well the answer to that question is in Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Not chosen, trusted and heard the gospel of salvation and *BELIEVED IT*
John 10….. read John 6:70 (see who Jesus is speaking to. Then go to John 15:16 (another verse Calvinists like to inject themselves in. Then go to John 17:12. You’ll see he is speaking to his disciples all throughout John 6-17, not us.
Matthew 13.. Again who is Jesus speaking to? Jews, not gentiles.
I’m going to take a wild guess that you deny dispensations. Even though the very word is mentioned 4 times in scripture:
Ephesians 1:10
Ephesians 3:2
Colossians 1:25
1 Corinthians 9:17
@@Brii.ZHey Jesus, why do some people reject the gospel? And I simply smarter and more righteous than other people for accepting you into my heart?
"You do not believe because you are not my sheep" - Jesus speaking to people who don't believe. Just in case you missed the obvious context.
"You don't believe because you are children of the devil" - Jesus again speaking to people who don't believe. Just in case you missed the obvious context.
Wow! Thanks, Jesus. So many people try to tell me that you didn't save me. They try to tell me that I was more righteous than other people and that you saved me because I believed. Wow! I hate lies, but I know Jesus never lied. These people constantly accuse me of taking things "out of context" but then spew their lies constantly. Just like the Jews who say Christians take Isaiah 53 "out of context." Haha!
I lean towards the Primitive Baptists, and many of us are considered Calvinists because of election and predestination.
Sometimes I have doubts about becoming an atheist.
And then I listen to a Calvinist speak.
The natural man will hate the things of God. What else is new?
@@goosieschmoo8239 If Calvinism is true, I have no choice but to despise Calvinism.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 then you love your sin.
@@goosieschmoo8239 If Calvinism is true, I have no choice but to love my sin.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 the more you say these things the more you're just proving biblical theology (nicknamed calvinism) to be true.
The natural man hates the things of God and loves their sin.
I urge everyone here to watch a handful of podcasts on a YT channel titled "the harmonious atheist."
This man was "deconverted" from Christianity and now proudly interviews those who give their own deconversion stories. I'm talking preachers, Sunday school teachers, and others who were completely committed to their church. A very high percentage were Calvinists and brought up believing the teachings of Calvinism.
They felt defeated when they struggled with sin. They wondered "am I truly elect?" They all started wondering "why would God predestine so many to eternal hell?" And on and on!
Calvinism KILLS the church and the Christian. I watched my own church nearly shut the doors when we hired a Calvinist pastor. We ARE responsible for our actions. We are, and I mean ALL of us, capable of accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ. This liberal philosophy of no accountability good or bad is utter nonsense!
Believing you are elect is not prideful. Calvinists tend to be arrogant, so it doesn’t matter what they believe, they reek of pride with or without Calvinism.
Idk man seeking to rob God of His glory by claiming that man is the ultimate source of their own salvation is pretty arrogant.
@goosieschmoo8239 there are exactly 0 mainstream Christian theological systems that believe man is the ultimate source for his own salvation. You are just adding more strawmen to the conversation.
@@scsteeldrums if you're saying that the ultimate deciding factor in man's salvation rests on man's "final decision" (ex:99% of salvation comes from God and 1% comes from man) you are saying that man is the source of their salvation whether you acknowledge it or not.
If you deny that salvation is 100% from God and man contributes nothing to their salvation other than the sin that made it necessary, you are robbing God of His glory.
@@goosieschmoo8239 my dude. It's OK if you don't understand other systems of soteriology than your own, but to attribute it to us being arrogant and desiring to rob God is pretty uncharitable of you.
@@scsteeldrums nah, salvation is 100% from God. We contribute nothing to it other than the sin that made it necessary. The bible openly speaks of God electing and predestination us to salvation from before the world was ever created. How can folks look at all the times election and predestination in the bible and still say "nah, it's not real"?
As a non-Calvinist who has watched a lot of Leighton and Provisonist perspectives, I feel this video unto the Lord I say this is half-baked. The first half deals with how non-Calvanists like to umbrella the abuse of pride to all Calvinists which is wrong and this was a good reminder of how being chosen in this sense is not a prideful thing inherently. However, it then goes on to do the same thing non-Calvinists do to them by saying that it is prideful to say God chose people based on their response to His spirit by free will. It also is easy to play into the wrong assumption made that the other side is saying you do not need God you can just go to him without his aid or spirit so it ends up doing something similar if not the same as the people it is critiquing.
It would be funny if God chose every Calvinist to think he was chosen for heaven but really they were chosen for hell 😂. No seriously though Calvin's God is the most circular God. It's like a plumber poking a hole in his pipe, getting mad then fixing it. That's Jesus in Calvinism, God fixing his own pipe which he poked.
So you think it would funny if I went to Hell. And nice job on criticizing Christ "Christ one ."
@@brendanbrady1291I didn't criticize Jesus Christ, I criticized Calvin's God "Jesus" who decrees a problem then fixes the problem he decreed.
@@brendanbrady1291and why do you care I critique Calvin's "Jesus Christ? It's pointless to deter me from what Calvin's Jesus has decreed for me.
@@maluillecause if Calvins right you are acting foolish. And you already said it would be funny if millions of Christians went to Hell you've already showed your ultimately un Christ like
@@brendanbrady1291 How am I being un christ like? The majority of Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, coptics, protestants don't follow this doctrine. And even if I found it funny don't blame me, blame Calvin's God who perfectly decreed and willed it for me to find it funny. It is him and not I who wants me to find it funny you're going to hell. All i do I do according to Calvin's God's will. So glorify him that his will is perfected in the fact I find it funny you're going to hell
This common Calvinist apologetic falls short for the fact that no reasonable person ever glorifies the receiver rather than the giver of a gift, even if you might say they “accepted” it. In another similar analogy, the drowning man does not and cannot say “Good thing I grabbed the life preserver that my rescuer threw… I obviously played a part in my salvation.” Every reasonable person realizes that only the rescuer of the drowning man deserves praise for the rescue. The rescued one, though she indeed recognized the rescuer and reached for the life preserver, yet rightly falls to her knees on the deck of the boat and says to her rescuer, “My salvation was all of you.”
These arguments are answers to dilemmas that don’t exist.
You cannot make someone love you. Then it wouldn't be love. Calvinists are indeed prideful.
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
When The Holy Spirit quickens you it is irresistible. You fall in love with The Lord and his grace and truth.
Choosing God is not a good work. The book of James clearly makes a difference between works and faith (faith is choosing God).
It's unbelievable how many Calvinists believe choosing God is prideful, wrong, or impossible. Inability to do good does not include inability to have faith, because faith is not a good work
WHOSOEVER WILL!!
😂😂😂
There’s a difference between religious pride and spiritual pride. I’d rather say, “Jesus opened the door for me” rather than “Jesus closed the door on some and left it open for others because they have medals”. God doesn’t discriminate unless outside values and conditions are added (James 2:9)
This is so Spot on
"God chose me purely by grace alone" Guess He chose the other guy to go to hell. Oh well....At least I'm saved.
@@danielrutigliano7938 Brother, This response proves you don’t understand what Calvinists believe.
@@ShepherdMinistry nor do I want to. We are not supposed to entertain the spirit of error.
@@danielrutigliano7938 How do you know if it’s error if you don’t understand it?
When I was about 4 or so, I had a dream, where God told me to "follow his way". I didn't know what that meant, but my parents said it was a biblical.
So I can say for sure that god has chosen me. Dont ask me why. Grace, probably.
Yes calvinists are prideful
How so?
John 6:44 NKJV - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
You can't come to Christ unless the Father first draws you. And those whom which the Father draws to His Son WILL be saved because He ordains it. How is any of that man being the source of their salvation?
Original poster that is a prideful comment.
@@goosieschmoo8239 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 12:32 KJV
Now what?
@@laserfalcon general call vs effectual call.
When you look at John 6:44 with the understanding that not everyone is going to be saved will understand that this scripture is about those whom which will be saved.
Anything other than that would be universalism.
Very clever with the Tractor Supply hat. I am a non-Calvinist and will be going there today! 😂
Let me ask a Calvinist a question: "Someone who is given much grace and goes on to do great things for the Lord vs. Someone who is given grace but not abundantly, yet does great things for the Lord"
Which believer is more obedient and which believer will hold a higher station with Christ in eternity?
Certainly the latter. If you answer neither, then you deny your very doctrinal stance along with Scripture. You see, it does take grace and we are incapable in and of ourselves, but what we do with that grace is up to us. There are mighty men and women who have clawed and fought the flesh through much torment to serve the Lord. There are examples throughout the Bible of this.
God gives grace to ALL men and there is absolutely NO scriptural evidence that validates the claim that His precious atonement was limited. Good day and God bless.
Calvinist uses a different dictionary
Calvinsists read the Bible and don't ignore the fact that it talks about predestination and election. They also don't think calvin came up with the concepts of predestination and election because it's spoken about so very much in the bible.
@@goosieschmoo8239 calvinists won’t hold God’s feet to the fire(accountability) for “making mankind to do evil deeds and having thoughts”(irresistible will of God)
@@1971AEDWARDS imagine having the heretical view that not only do you think you're gonna take a Holy and Righteous God to task for some sort of imagined slight, but also because you think God created sin. Sin is the absence of holiness. He cannot sin because He is holy. Sin does not originate from Him.
Also, who are you compared to a Holy and Righteous God? What makes you think you can take Him to task? Talk about some serious pride and foolishness.
@@goosieschmoo8239 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@@1971AEDWARDS only a fool thinks they're gonna take God to task.
1 Corinthians 7:17
Nevertheless, EACH person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has CALLED THEM.
He called all of us. He didn't choose few that would serve him. He choose all of us and only a few answered. This debunks calvinism.
That was priceless!
I was laughing so hard at this thank you brother so funny!
I'm a Calvinist. This great😂😂. Spot on
You guys can be a Calvinist but I will be a Christian.
1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (NASB95): For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.”
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Dare I become anything but a follower of Christ and not a follower of a fallen man such as John Calvin as The Apostle Paul rightfully warned us.
@@UA-camhatesconservativespeech I couldn't agree more with you and the scriptures you posted. AMEN! 👉🏼 from a Calvinist who is a CHRISTIAN
@@Miss-pm4kb I agree with scripture but not with Calvinism.
@@Miss-pm4kb Then you must agree with the scriptures I just sent to you, warning us that we should not be called followers of fallen men like John Calvin.
@@UA-camhatesconservativespeech I believe TULIP because it is in the scriptures and the Apostles taught it. Besides, why do you assume I believe TULIP or any parts of TULIP because of Calvin??? I already noticed some of it in the scriptures not too long after I got Saved before I even heard of Calvin. But, I still give Calvin his flowers for we have teachers for a reason, although the Church Fathers spoke TULIP language too. My pastor is a fallen man too, but does that mean I am not to trust him to teach and be overseers over the flock, as I hold and test everything he says by scripture??? As I said, AMEN! to the scriptures you quoted. I absolutely agree.
Calvinism is a false gospel denying the doctrine of Christ! 2 John 1:9-10
No one is saved by believing in the five points of Calvinism! ( Heb. 3:12: 6:4-6; 10:29)
Do Calvinist believe gluttony is a sin?
Good point. Unless someone eats only once a day or once every 2 days, they will be willfully engaging in gluttony.
@@Brii.Z luckily God have us an incredibly easy way to know if we are engaging in gluttony. Just look down at your stomach. Pretty simple.
Never could understand why a potter would weep for the vessels he made for the garbage. Think about this passage….
Matthew 23 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
I grew up Arminian, but had someone actually sit down and guide me through what Calvinists believe about 3 years ago. There wasn't anything he said I disagreed with. I'd say now I generally consider myself to be Calvinist. But it's been really interesting seeing how Calvinists and Arminians will make the same false claims about each other. There's the "prideful" one, but also the evangelism argument. Both sides will also say "If you take it to it's logical conclusion, it doesn't make sense to evangelize if you're Calvinist/Arminian [whichever is your opposition]"