Polygamy On The Other Side Of The Hill - Centennial Park Group
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- Find out about the Centennial Park Group that is on the "other side of the hill" from Short Creek.
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My Father grew up in Centennial Park and left as a young adult. He later married, had many kids and joined the LDS church. I actually love my Centennial relatives. They are great people with big hearts and a desire to attain higher standards...
As someone who grew up on that side of the hill, this information was very intriguing to me. I just found your channel and find it interesting learning about the history of Colorado city/hildale. I’m still quite young and haven’t learned all of the churches history but I’m glad I can learn more about our neighbors. Also about the clothes we wear… we believe in covering our body’s (wrists and ankles) we have just chosen not to wear what the FLDS wears. I’m sure my dad could tell you more of the history considering he was born and raised here, that would be an interesting conversation. Also I highly recommend watching polygamy USA, my family was featured on the show when I was only 5
Oh my gosh! I loved that show! Rose seems such a lovely soul, and the young family bowling were so charming! You all were!
Please tell me - this is all I need to know - how did the container rooms come out? I thought it was brilliant to give older kids some privacy and quiet.
They turned out great and we still use them to this day! Rose is literally awesome and has a few kids now 🥰
I see your last name is Blackmore... any relation to Winston Blackmore in Canada?
@@Lemonade_Stand_ No lol, this email is just one i made up so that isnt my real name 🙃
Sam with a beard, looking good.
Thank you!!
I’m wondering about his right ear and the genealogy of his parents cause doesn’t the FLDS have issues with inbreeding having such a limited gene pool? I can’t stop looking at it!
@@prettyinpinky5937 my son has weird shaped ears one sticks out more and is more forward than the other ear, it happened from the way he was positioned in the womb. He must’ve been laying on the one ear for quite some time. Hinting at his physical features being caused by being inbred is in very poor taste…
I remember seeing the Polygamy USA series with Centennial Park and it was super fascinating!
I love that series!
I remember that show too!
I wish they wbring it back
It was fantastic.
I grew up in The Work and would be happy to come on and discuss.
PS, I’m part Zitting so I think we are related 😂
Warren Jeffs did have two counselors and under Roy Johnson the FLDS became more autocratic.
At the top of the FLDS hierarchy was the (1) Prophet, (2) his two counselors, (3) the apostles, and (4) the patriarchs of the church. Apostles were men chosen by the prophet who at one time had the ability to arrange marriages just like the prophet. While the prophet and the apostles issued orders on who could marry who, they didn't really get involved in revealing the futures of each young person in the community; that was the job of the patriarch.
Towards the end of his life, Leroy Johnson (aka Uncle Roy) became more autocratic. As apostles began to die, he refused to fill their seats on the council of friends and established a "one man doctrine". It reached a boiling point when he ordered the remaining apostles to sit in the general crowd during Sunday services instead of up on the podium with the prophet. This insulted at least two remaining apostles who were excommunicated by Leroy and went on to form the Centennial Park group.
Eventually, Leroy died and the only remaining apostle was Rulon Jeffs who assumed leadership of the FLDS church. He abolished the council of friends and continued the one man doctrine established under Leroy Johnson. He kept the patriarchs and the two councilors in place which is how Warren Jeffs came to power as he was his father's first councilor.
After Rulon died Warren Jeffs claimed to be the new prophet and he established a new hierarchy for the church. He ordained Fred Jessop and Wendell Nielsen as First and Second counselors of the FLDS; established a twelve man committee known as the High council made up of "High Priests" that ran a lot of the day-to-day operations of the church; and bounced back and forth with the positions of patriarch excommunicating some them and abolishing the office. Finally, he reaffirmed the position of Bishop and created the office of Presiding elder to organize communities of FLDS into wards like Shorts Creek or lands of refuge like the Mancos property in Colorado.
The most important thing is that under the One man doctrine is that the prophet has total control. He is the mouthpiece of God in the FLDS religion, he decides who gets married and what the future is for those within the church. The High council's job is to organized to present evidence, voice suggestion for a decision, but it is the President of the Church (aka the Prophet), or one of his counselors who is appointed if the President is absent, that makes the decisions, by revelation, and the High Council upholds it by unanimous vote. Fred Jessop died in March 2003 and was replaced by Frederick Merril Jessop as First counselor of the FLDS (Merril died in February of 2022) while Wendell Nielsen kept his position as second counselor until he was excommunicated by Warren sometime after the YZR raid. The Bishops and presiding elders are constantly changing with the FLDS to ensure that one does not become too powerful.
I like that you do research, share memories, ask and answer questions, and bring in other experts. Interesting as always and of course done with honesty and respect.
As a matter of interest, UA-cam auto played an older Polygamy:What Love is This interview with a woman who had left the FLDS, during which she referred to the Centennial Park group as “the second ward”.
Wow this is so imformative! I like it!
Can you talk about the Brown sister wives and how their religion differs from the FLDS and if you knew of them out there?
I love the way the two of you present your findings both from experience and from research. You aren't looking to stand on your soap boxes and point a finger somebody for their sins but to speak with compassion and love to those who have come out of wrong teaching and those who are maybe looking to come out of this lifestyle. Sam I think God appointed you from birth to be the voice of change with the balanced temperament to present to the world what you know as truth! Keep up the good work both of you!
I agree. They both have a God-given talent for being kind and accepting of others, while still remaining true to themselves.
Yeahhhh!! Pumped to watch this!!!
I’m not sure if you’ve already done a video on this, but I’d love to hear more about the postpartum experience for LDS and FDLS women.
I live in the Utah side of short creek and the never going over the hill comment was funny because it’s true 😂
Hello from Australia, I really enjoy all your videos. I watched a very interesting documentary mini series on Centennial Park years ago which started my intrigue into polygamy. Keep up the great work.
Where did you watch that ?
@@dianefoster4517 I think I watched it on SBS a OZ TV station but have seen it since on National Geographic channel on foxtel
It was called Meeting the Polygamist
@@dianefoster4517 If you are in the US it's called Polygamy USA. And it is on Prime but you may have to buy it. In that case, I'd check other streaming sites to see if it is free, but if it is not, it's worth buying on Prime.
Wat was it ?
I do not know if it was recent but National Geographic Channel had a show called Polygamy USA that featured the Centennial Park group.
We will have to check that out!
National Geo did a series on this group. It was very interesting that women pick their husbands when they are 18 years old. They must finish school. I would love to see the series again.
Sweet story..I was going thru cedar city went out to look at a proberty it was beautiful notice polygamy group lived in that community..anyways in town a man and woman came up to me I was welcome to come home but maybe not where those pants .as I got ready to leave a man came to see my car loaded on tow truck..found out he thought I was his bro who had died wife who left years ago..she did look like me and could have been a distance cousin .I wasn't her but he was trying to do right..touched my heart
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
Love the facial hair Sam!
Have you watched that documentary that came out a few years ago about the polygamists who live in Moab Utah in a place called Rockland Ranch or The Rock? It was called 3 wives 1 husband, very interesting.
I think I saw something about that! But they were kinda lone wolves doing their own thing right? I don''t remember them going to any specific church, just that they considered themselves Mormon?
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy yes they were fundamentalist Morman and ya did there own thing. The whole series is on UA-cam just look up 3 wives 1 husband. It’s a 4 part series.
You mentioned the RLDS, which I'd never heard of before. Have you ever done a video on the RLDS? If you haven't, I understand that the RLDS may not fall under the subject matter that you cover; I was just surprised to hear that they existed. Thanks! (I'm really enjoying your videos!)
We haven't done a video on the RLDS before, mainly because they never accepted polygamy at all, but we would be open to sharing a little more about it. I will add it to the list! =)
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy Thank you! I've done some research since you mentioned it, and I think that it's really interesting.
Hope peope have chosen which of those you don't feel deserve to share even wagon path restraints wouldn't have looked down upon because of their birth.
Is that the Royal Methodists? They have all our family trust managed by a Lee in Missouri municipal bonds and stocks and took me hostage Christmas 1992 when I was 16 when I reported abuse and military police war crimes.
@@brighitfire Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.
It would be so cool if you did a reaction video or series of reaction videos about the Polygamy USA docuseries about the Centennial Park group.
I'll put that on the list!
these were the members who were instructed to" change their thinking"
Thanks for another great video!
You had on Amanda and Eskel from the Order. There’s also the AUB (Leah Garcia has a UA-cam channel, she was on Escaping Polygamy) and Colonia LeBaron. Are there others? It’s so interesting to learn about the groups and how they compare/contrast.
I’m from Pennsylvania. Apparently there’s a small sect of the Kingston group in the north east.🤷🏻♀️
FLDS, AUB or Allred Group (Kody Brown family), Kingston Clan (Latter-day Church of Christ), The Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly, The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days (The Church of the First born and/or T.L.C.), Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (A.K.A. Christ Church Inc.), Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (A.K.A. Christ Church Inc.), etc.
Yah we definitely want to get together to collab with someone from the AUB soon, so stay tuned. =)
@~I STAND OUT~
Hey, I got a great church name, and it's only one word: SUPERcaliFRIGILEisticEX-pialiDOSEous
I’m from Northeastern Pennsylvania, and I didn’t know that there was a branch of the Kingston Group here. There is a completely unrelated town called Kingston in our area (the town has been settled since the late colonial era, so those two are not related.) is it possible that is what you are talking about? I have heard that a group from one of the polygamist sects was building a presence here in Pennsylvania, but that it was FLDS, not The Order/Kingston Group, and haven’t been able to figure out where they settled.
As an aside, I work for the state legislature in Harrisburg, and a member I worked for from Philadelphia, who has since passed away, would get these “newsletters” that claimed to be from Warren Jeffs/the FLDS. After our office got about 10 of them in about two months, I was instructed to just throw them out immediately. My boss was African American, so clearly wanted absolutely nothing to do with Warren Jeffs, and no one on staff had any idea how we ended up on that particular mailing list.
the story of Roy Johnson walking into the meeting reminds me of King Viserys in HOTD hahaha. Thank you for sharing what you know & remember! I didn't grow up in anything related to the LDS church but your videos are fascinating! Wish you and your family all the best!
Lovin the beard Sam!
This was so interesting. I'm fascinated with the origins of Religions. There are so many offshoots from some, perhaps because they are all Patriarchal.
Historically, men were raised to be leaders. That partially explains the offshoots. When the ego demands attention, it's not surprising that so many decide to go it alone and take their families & followers along. It's messy because everyone following this new leader has to ditch their commitment to a previous Prophet. It's mind boggling.
That's why we have the Daybell/Vallow tragedy, currently going through the courts. All their cult members were devout Mormons. The fact that it is still flourishing, is deeply worrying.
I feel that women need to be held in the same high esteem as men. They bring a softer element, which is much needed. They can be empathetic, in the face of tyranny. They are the peacemakers.
I haven't seen anything from you in a few months. Looked for you and found I wasn't subscribed anymore. Wth. Subscribed again!!
I love you guys!! I really appreciate your videos a lot! You should do more on the Canadians.. that seems very interesting!
Thank you so much Allie!
Missed you guys! ❤
Is there something like a family tree with all the split offs documented somewhere? I would find that interesting. Last night I watched the documentary "Mama's Boy" about Dustin Lance Black who grew up LDS, he wrote "Big Love". He has a unique perspective, growing up gay. One point he made clear was LDS commitment to caring for it's members financially that were in need Thank you for another thought provoking vlog, your respectful attitude towards each group is greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much! I have never seen a family tree of the Mormon offshoots, but that would be really interesting to see! Maybe someday we will have the time to do it! I will put it on the list!
Read Ben Bistline's book if you want a thorough history of Short Creek pre-Jeffs
I could never imagine following one dude you claims to have a message and holds the key to anything! The fact that millions of people do and end up being abused, taken advantage of etc is just mind boggling to me!
I live just outside of St George and drive to Kanab once or twice a month. I had no idea that's where Centennial Park was.
Well, it’s not, it is next to Short Creek
i lived thru the split, and some members spoke over the pulpit "Uncle Roy was senile"
Missed you guys. RLDS? One I’ve never heard of
All the key metaphors makes it sound like the profits are almost janitors and they are just making copies of keys
National Geographic did a short reality series about a few families in the Centennial Park group. It was called Polygamy USA. They talked a little about the split and the impact it had on families.
RLDS wasn’t formed for around a decade after his death. His son was only 11, and not of an age to take over. Many saints just chose not to follow BY and stay behind and eventually a reorganized church was formed. They have since changed their name from RLDS
They also have moved away from Joseph Smith teachings and are returning to classic Christianity as I understand it.
Ok so I have been seeing your channel for a while, and I have learned a lot of the polygamist culture. Have you guys ever thought about having Christine Brown as a guest in your show? Or you have already reach out and she said no. I would love to see Christine on your channel.
I am LDS and had always hear about the FLDS but had never heard about the RLDS . Until my son's and l moved to Evansville, Indiana. We had gone to the annual Fall Festival our first fall there. While walking around the Festival we came across a food wagon that said RLDS. So being we had never heard of them we stopped got some food and asked questions, even got invited to go to service's. But as we walked in the building found a seat my youngest son said it does not feel our church. Even the service was completely different. I even felt something just did not feel right. So l went to talk to the "Bishop" is when he told me theirs was the one from Joseph Smith that he was a dependent from Joseph Smith and who l believed was the prophet these days was a fake. My sons and l never went back
From what someone said in another post they sound like a group to avoid. They apparently consider it ok to ordain lbqt people as "ministers" and that definitely isn't scripture given that homosexuality was (and still should be) considered an abomination before God. Obviously can't speak for others, but I am sticking with the Apostolic Pentecostal faith.
@@pamfink4052 if we are to remain consistent to your perspective, then no one should be ordained minister. No one is free of sin. we all fall short.
Sam your beard is 🔥🙌💯
I find Centennial Park somewhat intriguing
Sam looks great with the facial hair
Hey there 👋 im actuslly part of the lds group NOT FLDS but LDS so im actually related to most people in cenntential park az 😅 its sad the bad rep they get and the misunderstanding imformation people spread about it
Thank you for your comment! We are actually planning a trip to Centennial Park soon to interview and get more insight on the group. Stay tuned 🙂
Hi! You’ve done several reaction videos on FLDS documentaries, would you ever do a reaction video on Sons of Perdition?
Which streaming platform was that one on :)
We'll put it on the list!
Just wanted to point out, people talking highly of someone doesn't mean they were a good person. Your family may have only good things to say about Roy, but there are also people who only have good things to say about Warren.
If you look up rlds it says it was originated in MO
There was 12 apostles It was probably after you were out because I was born in 2004
How many cousins and 1/2 cousin included… does Sam have?
The street uzona 😆
How did the FLDS view the AUB?
I heard of the AUB while living within the FLDS. They didn't tell us much about them other then they believed they were in the wrong.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy Interesing! Gospel Tangents just recently had Joe Jessop on. Episodes 710-712. He detais the history of the polygamist groups, where they intersect and diverge, offers commentary and anecdotes. You both would be great guests as well.
Can you react to Christine leaving in the TLC show sister wives
So, is the young adults/single ward (or how It was called) Not a Part of congregation but a completely separate congregation?
I enjoy your videos, but I question any doctrine in any religion. one person claiming to be a prophet is a huge red flag for me. From a fundamentalist to Mormon religion is one and the same, just without plural wives. I know many will say different. But any how thank you for your videos, I appreciate you both.
More politics of power than faith.
Lobe the beard!
Yuh I lobe it too.
.
Was this the group Lisa Ling did a story about?
Yes
Question; were the men allowed to grow a beard?
We were not allowed to have any facial hair.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamythanks for answering my question. I do like the beard!
Did you watch the TV show called Polygamy, USA? It is all about this group.
The area looks horrible, like a desert. Hot and dusty and dry I assume?
Yep ;) sunsets are nice tho :)
I apologize if this is too personal, but I think I remember you guys saying that you had left the mainstream LDS Church as well. Have you joined a new denomination or faith? Or are you just completely turned off from organized religion at this point? (By way of disclosure, I am not, and never have been, LDS, and I am a practicing Catholic and was raised from birth as a Catholic, and my Dad’s family and my mother’s mom’s family have been Catholic for many generations.
I do not agree with everything the church does like hiding priests who abused children. I am pro-life for myself, but pro-choice for everyone else, and am a straight ally to the LGBTQ+ community and strongly support marriage equality. No religion, faith or denomination is perfect, yet my faith has provided me with much comfort over the years. None of the things I disagree with come outright from the Bible, but rather they are man-made doctrine, and not the word of God.
I admire your courage, strength, grace, fortitude and intelligence for being able to thrive after leaving the FLDS, and forming a new life for yourself and creating a new family for yourself. God bless you guys.
They did an interview on Mormon Stories Podcast that might answer some of your questions!
The only thing is that the Catholic church as an institution does not support marriage equality, access to abortion etc, so if you give money to it for instance you are supporting those stances. Some people move away from organised religion for that reason, along with many others.
@~I STAND OUT~ specifically being gay? Or a man lying with a man? (What about women?)
Hi Rebecca! Thank you so much for the Super Thanks! At this point we are not a part of any organized religion. =)
@@powderandpaint14 I mentioned being a straight ally to the LGBTQ+ community which encompasses everyone. I never mentioned gender or sexuality, and mentioned marriage equality, which applies to all. Hope that clarifies. 🏳️🌈🥰.
Relationship with your grandparents
Why are Americans so vulnerable to cults? This is not a thing in the rest of the world. I live in Europe, and I have never heard of cults here except for a few communities of Jehovas Winnesses
Great question. I’d argue that just bc you’ve never heard of them doesn’t mean they’re not there. I know of several cults which started in the UK and France. I didn’t realize how many cults there were/are in Canada until very recently.
But yeah, a lot of very noisy cults in the US. Might be something about their brand of religious freedom?? They tolerate fundamentalism a lot more than other places.
Extremism and cults are all of a kind. American cults and extremist groups of various kinds all mix together the same basic ingredients of European antisemitism, imperialism, Christian supremacy, and other problems. Then they add in Americanisms. Sometimes those American versions recross the Atlantic to fuel European extremism. The FLDS is noisy, but its insularity keeps it small. Nazis on the other hand...
What states
One man doctrine? That sounds like the Pope.
Be realistic, you people have to be challenged....
Takes you two way to long to get to anything interesting. You could get more subscribers by getting to the point. Videos are too long for the content. 🙁
How does flds recruit new members or grow the congregation. It seems like they would have to get new bloodlines in. Its all fascinating.