The REAL story of how Elon "stole" Tesla
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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Discover the untold story of Tesla's origins and the controversy over Elon Musk's role as a founder. We dive into the early days with Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, the dramatic takeover by Musk, and the lawsuit that followed. Who are the true founders?
Watch and decide for yourself.
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Well, isnt this exactly that movie The Founder with Michael Keaton. I guess if you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook
Oh wait
"Not a co-founder" camp.
The popular "Ship of Theseus" debate of if someone helped provide important financial or strategic feedback early, influences decisions or drive ideas early in a companies life before a name becomes a name get credit for the companies success? By this logic should AC Propulsion be founders of Telsa?
In short no.
If AC Propulsion had taken Martin and Marc's advice, Martin and Marc would not and should not then become founders of AC Propulsion either. If they invest in AC Propulsion making the change from custom to mass produce EVs, they would have been important figures in its history but not co-founders. Re-incorporate AC Propulsion with a different name/legal agreement on who is founding the new company...then there is a solid debate. But that isn't what happened at Tesla. In building anything, there are a lot of small to large influences but they don't bring them all together. The leap from AC Propulsion custom EV cars to starting Telsa to mass produce EV cars is the same leap between Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founding Tesla and Elon's entrance into Telsa. Influence yes, co-founders no.
I believe Elon earned the co-founder title fair and square. And this is an opinion I have formed by not only reading the book “Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson”, but also your video and various other sources. I also want to add the fact that Walter Isaacson didn’t just write the book from Elon’s perspective, he interviewed every single one of the cofounders, and even key employees to form his opinions for the book.
Elon was not only the biggest investor capital wise hence earning himself the position of chairman, he also put in a lot of sweat equity for example changing the car door latches to electric, which ended up becoming the symbol for Tesla getting them hundreds of thousands of more sales, he also designed the cars look with the help of his design engineer at SpaceX that was hired for Tesla named Franz von Holzhausen a French designer. He also worked on the dashboard of the car because it looked tacky. The seats were changed according to Elon’s design. The middle console with the huge table and the software it runs was also part Elon’s idea. In fact, the Lotis design was so bad that it couldn’t fit in the engine and the battery cells in a formation that made sense, that was all done by Elon and there’s much much more than that.
So in conclusion just because I made an LLC and came up with the idea doesn’t make me a cofounder it’s the amount of capital and sweat that I put into it to make it successful is what makes me the cofounder. The original founders were incompetent of making it happen, which is why they were as good as old news and Elon came out on the winning end. You also need to keep in mind Elon understands the technology in a very technical way aside from being the biggest investor. He was a coder and physics major first, who was also acting as the Chief Rocket Propulsion Engineer for SpaceX at the time, who became the biggest investor in Tesla and not the other way around like the vast majority of investors. So he really knew his stuff before joining Tesla. After that as we all know the rest is history.
No, he wasn't a founder. Court judges don't redefine English language words.
I believe Elon earned the co-founder title fair and square. And this is an opinion I have formed by not only reading the book “Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson”, but also your video and various other sources. I also want to add the fact that Walter Isaacson didn’t just write the book from Elon’s perspective, he interviewed every single one of the cofounders, and even key employees to form his opinions for the book.
Elon was not only the biggest investor capital wise hence earning himself the position of chairman, he also put in a lot of sweat equity for example changing the car door latches to electric, which ended up becoming the symbol for Tesla getting them hundreds of thousands of more sales, he also designed the cars look with the help of his design engineer at SpaceX that was hired for Tesla named Franz von Holzhausen a French designer. He also worked on the dashboard of the car because it looked tacky. The seats were changed according to Elon’s design. The middle console with the huge table and the software it runs was also part Elon’s idea. In fact, the Lotis design was so bad that it couldn’t fit in the engine and the battery cells in a formation that made sense, that was all done by Elon and there’s much much more than that.
So in conclusion just because I made an LLC and came up with the idea doesn’t make me a cofounder it’s the amount of capital and sweat that I put into it to make it successful is what makes me the cofounder. The original founders were incompetent of making it happen, which is why they were as good as old news and Elon came out on the winning end. You also need to keep in mind Elon understands the technology in a very technical way aside from being the biggest investor. He was a coder and physics major first, who was also acting as the chief propulsion engineer for SpaceX at the time, who became the biggest investor in Tesla and not the other way around like the vast majority of investors. So he really knew his stuff before joining Tesla. After that as we all know the rest is history.
Doesn't seem like Elon Musk was ever a founder, much less a co-founder, in Tesla. Wow!
He's also not THE engineer that came up with ALL technological solutions at Tesla, despite claiming that he is. In fact: Elon Musk isn't even a certified engineer.
What Musk is, is a salesman who had an uncanny ability to sniff out companies that had the potential to make it big. And I use the past tense deliberately, because Musk seems to have lost his touch the moment he started sniffing his own farts and declared himself a genius.
Do you think Tesla had gone anywhere like this e-book.
@@bluerisk Do you think the e-book what lol
No
How about a new term. A cofunder? Just drop the letter O.
😂😂😂💀
@@philipwangila244 cfunder?
No
Bro. Your videos are top notch. Your thumbnails are holding you back
Apple ceo is Tim Apple lol!! 10:37
Let him cook
it was a reference to what Donald Trump said when they met during his presidency
Credit Creditcardhelp is new to memes I see
@@CC-kg6vs Let Tim Cook
Tim cook is a crook..
You know who didn't forget? Sam with OpenAI. Elon got played on that and became poopypants
There was a conflict of interest
That's why he left.
Sam is another unsavoury, two-faced character
@@phpn99 He met his match. The battle of snake oil salesmen
Yeah, Openai is the peak of success, theres nothing going on that would make one think it will implode soon under Sams leadership.... Hard to type Sarcasm
@@uromvictorlike the conflict of interest between xAI & Tesla. Hopefully he’ll not get his $56B & fuck off from Tesla for good
If this and if that. Truth is - companies are only able to survive based on how passionately involved a person is - no matter the type of idea, project, or who founded it. Apple without Steve Jobs would’ve most likely died like Blackberry or Nokia. Kudos to the original founders of Tesla who started the company but Elon took it to another level, that cannot to denied either.
Unfortunately, with the gamification of financial markets/financial products, stocks, capital, and equity. It's more often the person most willing to commit fraud that succeeds... which the government has been far too lax about holding people accountable for over the last 4 decades.
he had the money. that was about it. look at how bad Tesla is right now lol
As a founder rule of thumb : Don't take Investment from Reliance , Elon , and Chinese .
Thats the stupidest thing one can say. Out of all the companies Elon has been involved in (more than 10), none have gone bankrupt, most have gone to become multi billion dollar companies...
@@jorgeavelar98seriously. Tesla would have been nothing without Elon.
Are you fucking kidding me? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on the internet
@@scottm4975 But people love to hate when people make it😂 let them have that
LOOL, only Musk was mad enough to put his money, no one else would give them money. They didn't put their own assets into Tesla, like Musk did.
this story is missing a lot of detail. Mark Eberhard was lying about how much the Roadster was going to cost
The nexus of Tesla's founding was actually the AC Propulsion tZero made by Tom Gage. That prototype is what directly inspired Straubel, Musk, Eberhard and Tarpenning to pursue commercialisation of electric cars. I highly recommend people read the Wikipedia article for the *AC Propulsion tzero* and specifically the section *Lithium-ion battery conversion* for an accurate summation of how Musk became connected to Tesla.
@2:37. There is a bid difference between 10% EVs on the road and 10% of Sales.
California did surpass 10% EV sales at one point.
It will take a while to replace the fleet on the road with any powertrain.
Funny how everyone misses that Martin and Mark had the money to fund tesla from a previous liquidation event for a company they had sold but CHOSE NOT TO - simply because they lacked the belief and will. Elon had the belief and willed Tesla into what it is today, no matter what anyone says. If that's not being a founder, I don't know what is.
Yup, just putting your name in the founding company paper dosen't make u a founder.
@@archigoel doesnt matter, guy took that company from nothing to something with his money, put his car in space, developed a rocket at 1/10 the cost of nasa. if you're holding his success against him theres something wrong with you internally lol
Elon admitted he made a big mistake when he committed to Tesla. He thought since he developed a working prototype BEV and proved the concept, the hard part was done. As time went by, he had to put in more & more $ millions into production and still no profits. Eventually, he was on the verge of bankruptcy, and yet he ignored the advice of all his financial advisors and put his LAST MONEY into Tesla. He barely succeeded! It took working 20 hr. days for months, living, sleeping, on the factory floor. It cost him his marriage. He paid a high price personally and found out that "Production is 200 times harder than creating a prototype". Elon Musk set the "gold standard" for entrepreneurship.
@@archigoelWhat are you talking about? Elon started the company by putting his own money into it, which the other guys refused to do. Tesla only exists today thanks to Elon Musk.
Correct 💯
If elon is not a co-founder, then we need to come up with a new title like "most essential persons at the start" or MEPATS😂
They're called venture capitalists &/or angel investors. Dime a dozen
@@sanjaygupta666 But angel investors and VCs have varying amounts of involvement, OPs point is that those term don’t accurately describe the involvement Elon had in Tesla.
@@Entertainment-Many angel investors do have this level of engagement with the company.
@@downix No sir
@Myko349 Yes sir. Hands on Angel Investors are reasonably common for startups.
I like the question you pose at the end. It's primarily an informal title (like "leader"), so it makes sense that people would disagree on what it means. But everyone agrees on the essence of the title: someone who was involved with the company in a significant way early enough to be a major influence on the company. So how late can a person join a company before they no longer count as a founder? Is "late" measured by time, by the development of the company's vision, or by employee count? If you are influential enough on the company, does that make up for being a bit later? If all you contributed to the company was a name but not a vision, can you still count as a co-founder? What if you contributed a vision, but it was entirely scrapped later on?
There will probably be some popular answers to these questions. Possibly even some formally recognized answers. But I think you can't ignore that there's still some subjective element to the title.
This completely ignores that Martin was removed for committing fraud, and that they didn’t begin development until after Musk was already on board. The prototype had been built by an entirely different company without their involvement. So they didn’t actually build anything until Musk got involved.
I have an idea for something, but I don't have the money, skills or ability to build it. Wanna come do everything for me? Just don't think of yourself as a co-founder, you're just a bag of money. Ok?
Probably ignored that because there is no evidence of Martin's fraud, just poor performance. Elon on the other hand...
I highly recommend reading the Wikipedia article for the *AC Propulsion tzero* and specifically the section _Lithium-ion battery conversion_ for an accurate summation of how Musk got connected with Tarpenning and Eberhard.
Elmo is a moron!
Muskrats are insane.
Im interested that with all your analysis 2 points eluded you. First if all there were infact 4 people involved. The one you missed is JB Strauble. Thats a very big ommission and a man that is now well known as CEO of Redwood. So how come his name was not in your analysis. Strauble and Musk also approached AC Propulsion and this is how the four men became involved (4 not 3). Devond point ...As the company continued to struggle through the Financial Crisis cost audits revealed that Eberhard had not declared the full cost of the Roadster with cost being roughly double that which he informed the board. He had infact misrepresented the finances to the Tesla Board. Thats certainly a giring issue and thus it was at this point that Eberhard was fired for misrresenting finances. Unit losses were infact roughly 100% Thereafter yes other CEOs were apponinted and were unable to bridge the margin gap. It was in fact Musk who reengineered the Roadster to a marginal profit. It was also Musk that invested every final cent he had to manufacture thecwaiting list of cars promised. So there you ho. A vouple of corrections for your viewers to condider. Night night poppet!!
Good points. Technically before JB and Elon Tesla was a company just on paper.
Excellent input. I wish to add a piece or two. Between the incorporation of Tesla in July 2003 by Eberhard (CEO) and Tarpenning (COO) and May 2004 five people instrumental in developing the prototype and laying the foundations for Tesla as a company were brought on board. Ian Wright in the Fall 2003 (VP of Vehicle Development) and who would work with Lotus in licensing their chassis as the glider for the Tesla electric motors and additional funding. In February 2004 Eberhard and Wright sought funding which led to Musk with his engineering interests in electric cars and his venture capital. They both agreed to Musk's request to be Chairman of the Board with a final say in all decisions. As reported here he began to do so by providing ideas into the Roadster's development (note: Remember Musk is an emerging rocket scientist/engineer at SpaceX partnering with Tom Muller). Perhaps it is insightful to note a comment by Wright who said Eberhard wanted to build the electric [roadster] he wanted to own and Musk wanted to build a car company like GM. Next came J. Straubel in May 2004 who would be the Chief Technology Officer putting the roadster prototype together. If you define “founder” informally as the person who incorporates a company then Eberhard and Tarpenning are Tesla Motors “co-founders.” If you define it legally as those instrumental to the foundation of a company and legally deserving equity interests then you have 5 founders, all essential, Eberhard, Tarpenning, Wright, Musk and Straubel. What few point out is that when Tesla began transitioning in 2008 from building a workable Roadster prototype into a production company only Musk and Straubel were left playing an active role in managing the company. One of the most difficult transitions entrepreneurial ventures deal with is evolving into successful, professional management. More often then not the founders of a company do not have the required capability to make this transition. Evidence of this was demonstrated in this video in Eberhard's struggle to manage development of the prototype. To his credit Eberhard recognized this shortcoming as the CEO and recommended being replaced. At this point Musk, much like Jobs, became the iCEO behind the scenes. It is therefore not surprising to me when Eberhard pressed his point legally about “the founders” that Wright, Straubel and Musk were included as “the 5.”
Elon doesn't miss represent the shareholders? Elon has made many claims to investors and customers alike that never came true. FSD is not Full nor Self Driving. Most software updates are "Fixes" that don't fix anything. Correct me if I am wrong.
@@dspano1093 FSD probably already drives better than most humans, at least with Version 12 now
@@dspano1093 so sorry, but You are wrong. Clearly you have not been driven around by (supervised) Full Self Driving and experienced “no pedal” driving. I am an excellent driver (over 50 years) and it is better than I am. It is a remarkable experience and well worth the subscription. Not sure what you are reading regarding misrepresenting the investors. I am an investor. As a CEO Musk has delivered on what he has promised and then some, even if he was overly-optimistic about the “when’s.” It’s the reason we retail investors strongly supported his long overdue pay package.
A co-founder is an individual who has his name as a shareholder in an LLC on the day on which the company’s Articles of Association were submitted to the Registrar. Or a shareholder and a Board of Directors member anywhere before the breakeven point as agreed by the other founders.
if u want to be technical, then Court has ruled on it, and that's end of discussion. And if u want to be moral, than this is not even a question, Tesla was a paper incorporation before Musk.
@@archigoel going out of your way to further Musk's wish to be founder of a company he did not found?
As per your second definition Elon thus is a founder?
@@StinkPickle4000 you are going out of your way to to say Musk isnt a founder. According to silicon valley practise, he is, according to the court ruling, he is.
@@archigoel Nice try but nope. Musk persued legal remedies so he could claim to be founder and activated his cult to re-write history.
Doesn't mean he started the company.
I feel sorry for those two. They seems to be cool dudes.
incompetent in the company would have gone bankrupt
Maybe, but they were incompetent and basically committed fraud with how they lied to the board. Tesla ended up being 100% better long term without them.
No they're idiots
@@13thbiosphere it shouldn't take a conartist to make a company work. The roadster was a lotus elise with electric motor conversion kit, Tesla was effectively a kit-car company. Tesla would likely still exist and maybe even made real innovation instead of being a fad- the Apple of electric cars.
@@Azerkeux the majority of people disagree with you're definitely in the minority ... obviously you're not a great researcher you don't know what you're talking about I don't agree with Elon about everything but mostly the guy works like a machine
He did not found it but he DID save it. They were bankrupt and had no supply chain nor serious plans to scale up. Watch the movie THE FOUNDER it was the same with McDonalds.
If by save, you mean "ran it into the ground with his ego", sure. Everything Musk touches dies once his hype wears off. He's hollow otherwise. No skill, no talent except hype.
So how did he take over Tesla? This video never gave an answer to that question. It went from him being an over involved chairmen of the board causing problems to him being CEO. It’s more a timeline of what happened and not explanation of how or why it happened.
10:17 Rewatch starting here
I think there should be some consideration here. Without Elon, it’s almost certain that Tesla, and EVs as an industry, wouldn’t exist.
The opposite is true. It would be much further advanced.
@@DonHavjuan Big oil and gas has to much power. Ev's needed a stud like Elon to bring it main stream
@@DonHavjuanhow so?? There are just TWO companies with positive margins on EVs and that's 20 after the startup of Tesla. One of those was financed by the CCP. The other by Elon Musk. The fact is that Tesla is the only company that has built self sustaining cash from EV operations and this whilst investing in Autonomy and now Robotics.
You're delusional mate
@@DonHavjuanso why haven't these two created the much further advanced company without Elon😂😂😂.
Your editor actually added footage of the Amazonian rain forest 😂
I thought everything already came to light widely after the Twitter buyout
The way to warp your head around is simple: forget the names and details and imagine another imaginary company and imaginary founder. OK. It's a hypothetical, so you don't care about the outcome. You can be more objective like that. So the question is: If someone creates a company (this can be done quite easily, I've done it once for example) but it has not made or sold any products or services, is it a real company? Or is it just a proto-company? Imagine going to Shark Tank and telling them that you have a company but no products sold or even designed yet. No customers, no capital either. They would tell you that your company is worthless and is only a company on paper.
That's Tesla when Elon Musk joined. After that came everything.
So is he a founder? You tell me. Is Elon in the right? Yeah. He made Tesla go from a peanut size company to a star sized one. He MADE Space X from scratch, he made Neuralink from nothing, Boring Company did not exist, then he willed it into being, he founded OpenAI.
While Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders who kickstarted Tesla, it was Elon Musk's leadership, vision, and execution that transformed Tesla into the pioneering and massively successful electric vehicle company it is today. 45 The original founders did not create anything remotely as big or impactful as Tesla under Musk's guidance.
Someone finally said the truth. But because people don't like Elon these days no one will acknowledge this.
If you read Isaacson's Elon Musk biography, it does seem that Tesla period with Eberhardt/Tarpenning was not much different than any other EV startups that have since failed. It actually took many years later for Tesla under Musk's full leadership to finally emerge as what Tesla is today. There was a decent likelihood that a Tesla with just Eberhardt/Tarpenning would have been just another failed EV venture.
No doubt about it. Still question is, if you take over a company from somebody else, can you call yourself co-founder.
@@andjankowski Wait, is this what this video is about?? Semantics about a "co-founder" title?? It doesn't seem like it based on the title. ...Elon stole Tesla.
@devstuff2576 lmfao, I work in tech. Some tech company I was considering interviewing with, was offering "founder" title for a developer's role. It's a joke. Yeah it is about the semantics. Once Eberhardt/Tarpenning had run the EV startup into the ground without an Elon Musk just like the myriad of other failed EV startups, NO one would have cared who the hell the "founders" were. The ONLY reason why people want to bask in the Tesla glory and wealth is because of what Musk built. FYI I am definitely not a Musk fanboy but I will give credit where credit is due.
Still doesn't make him a founder, just the money bags!
@@potodds_trading He's just a man baby with an ego that needs it's own planet, good thing he wants to go to mars, hope he gets stuck there. At the end of the day he was not the founder. The fact the he eventually had to settle so that he can be called a founder is just hilarious. It's the equivalent of buying your toddler a police costume and tell them "you're a police officer now"
I like how after you said "money wins", you went for a haircut😊😂
Did you read the book? I don’t think he has ever said he was the founder of Tesla.
Idea without money is just a daydream. So I think if your biggest investor want to be called co-founder...why not? It's just a title, useless one at that. The most important is still money and support to keep company running.
The “original” founders didn’t want to use their own liquidity on Tesla, Elon did and became the operational figure that led the company into success.
This is more than that. this is not like an IT company where just with idea u can do a lot. THis is a auto company, these guys didn't even have a office, employee or prototype. THis was decided in the court.
@@archigoel It's just hurt Mark and Martin ego that's why it's a problem. It would be ok if both real founder want a bragging rights but they have to pay for it. When they refuse to put on their own money to get majority share. They lose that rights. They are employee (being CEO or whatever) who beef with the employer, Chairman of the board. CEO jobs is literally work under the board supervision. As I'm said, Co-founder is not legal title. If Elon ask to be call as the Gigachad of company, why the hell is that a problem? He's paid tens of millions for that. It's also why we have DEI in every company right now, because the biggest investors (blackrock) demands it. However, it's still a common sense that Mark and Martin blinded by their ego, couldn't figure it out
He's a founder, before he joined Tesla, the 2 blokes just had an idea with no resources. No Elon = No Tesla. Sounds like a founder to me.
There actually were 3 Blokes, but the 2 moaners hide that under the carpet.
Also what triggered the downfall of Ekhard was an investigation by several of the investors that found the actual cost of the roadster was well over $100K while Ekhard who was CEO and in charge of manufacturing was claiming cost was close to half of real cost, and they were selling it at a far lower figure . Elon had the choice , let it go and lose his investment or take decisive action and invest the rest of the money he had and replace Ekhard as CEO.
Note Ekhard was a multimillionaire from Property, yet never invested any of his own money in Tesla, in Fact they did not own the Name or the Tesla website and had to actually buy them from the then owners
they founded the company , elon didnt
@@abhinavkumar4824if you call registering a name then yes. That's all they did without Elon
By that logic, Mike Markkula is the founder of Apple.
If not elon someone will invest he's not the only investor in the world
Call him whatever he wants because if it wasn't for Elon, Tesla would probably be defuncted by now instead of a thriving car company with a ridiculous stock price. Love him or hate him, nobody can run multiple companies except for him.
So now that it's on the path to go broke, that too is Elmo
@@DonHavjuan Please revisit your opinion 5 years from now
lmao, watch common sense skeptic, being a lunatic boss, screaming at hard working employees while tweeting 24*7 he is basically replaceable by any dickhead
This is why he mostly borrows money from government. Without government funding there wouldn't be Tesla.
These embedded ads sometimes remind me of the good ol days of cable tv, fast forwarding through the commercials 😁👍
I'm not sure about this whole "founder" thing, but I'm sure as hell he tick all the boxes for an asshole.
in the future, you'll be screaming that you always loved and believed in Elon when theres a settlement on Mars and a Giant Asteroid is headed for Earth. I ask many people why they hate Elon, never any answers.... always media inspired NPCs. and they always are losers.
That's true; many of those attributes served the company well during and after its deepest struggles to become successful.
The deep questions are: is it necessary to be an asshole to make those hard decisions made at Tesla; if that's true, is it because of the largely unregulated capitalistic economy in the US; and, if _that_ is true, is it generalizable to most technological successes within a system?
Musk has said in interviews that he did not create Tesla. However he was the person that took dates in loo of wages. Then brought Testa to a new level.
You could argue that the term founder apply to two kind of people.
The people who actually founded the company (were part of the incorporation) and people who in its first 3 years of operation joined and made such a remarkable contribution in terms of vision that it changed the company structure and direction.
"actually founded" sounds like an "actual founder".
If you have an idea, and need a founded company to make the idea a reality, you have founded nothing. You are instead an employee, or a consultant, or a stakeholder. Elon founded nothing in Tesla.
imagine having an idea with a friend, running into two people with the same Idea, deciding to work together, spending millions from your own pocket, and then slowly over the next 20 years turning the company into a trillion-dollar giant (at its peak) and people are here asking if you were a co-founder.
If elon stole Tesla, he stole a prototype of an electric car that be bought, and didn't end up bringing to production.
You could breathe better if you took Elon out of your mouth first.
@@imfreakingawesome8928 You mean the unfinished garbage vehicles on the road today? No quality inspections, which fail constantly? And the ever-promised self-driving that doesn't exist? Sure.
Observation, the white text font on the grey background, was not very legible.
Co-founder or not, Tesla wouldn't be Tesla without Elon
sadly you are right
He may not be technically a co-founder, but let's be clear: Tesla would not exist today without Elon. Like him or not, he saved the company. The founders were not able to take the company to the next level. If I'm putting up a sizable amount of money in a company that hasn't gone to market yet, I believe that makes me one of the co-founders.
The word you’re looking for is investor.
Guy above me can't read
And you would still be wrong
Maybe but Tesla also wouldnt be what it is without the 2008 bailout they received or all the government incentives. Both on the taxpayers dime. So with that logic maybe, we the taxpayers, are the founders.
@@steve7814don’t be delusional to think you “tax payers” did any work to save the company 😂
The beat part of your video is that you try to make it so simple to understand for the least person, even if you have already done a video about what you talk about, like the the explainer time here where you explain rounds of investments again.
The "Founders" would NEVER have built a half successful car company.
They were prototype builders.
fr
Tesla and successful? The company was so overvalued and reality is slowly catching up after not delivering the disruption elon promised.
@@Th1200 ... I understand you are spewing FUD into the internet, by order ... But, please, say REALISTIC things ... A good liar knows to base their lies on the truth.
Saying that TESLA is a failed company makes you look stupid ... Take a different angle ... Maybe then we will believe you.
@@Th1200 they definitely delivered on the disruption it, yes we definitely won't have self driving cars any time soon but the model y is the best selling car model in the world with over 1.5 million cars, i see them every day at a rate which you wouldn't have 2 years ago its crazy.
Thank you Caya, In this case, Co-Founders should be Martin and Mark.
No. I became a company co-founder 18 months after its inception; if it weren't for me, the company would have been worth nothing without my help. I reinvented the product and saved the company and its investors from bankruptcy by engineering 10 patents.
I also owned a company and made someone a co-founder after I had developed a product for over a year. Nothing is wrong with giving pivotal people within an organization like Musk props and the title co-founder to cement them to the organization.
If you don't see the value in this you are an idiot.
Given that all actual development and business function only happened after Elon joined, Elon can easily be considered a co-founder, which is exactly why the courts ruled in his favor....
Thanks. Great little in-depth video about reality and funding.
I would have really loved a more technical dive into this. Like who did they hire that had electric car knowledge? Elon? Did they develop any significant innovation that benefited Tesla right after Elon took over? What was the state of the company and Elon's contribution before taking over? Because, if Elon invested over 6 mill and provided the technical knowledge, then he may not have been a co-founder technically, but he deserves some credit and he should not be called a thief in this instance. Maybe he didn't want his time and money to go to waste in a dying company while looking for the right CEO? Let's be honest, If the company wasn't a success because of Elon, they wouldn't care today.
Which is why these type of video's are shit. This is common information -- Before Musk, Tesla was a paper company -- with o assets, o building, only a PPT. That's not a auto company, its a holding company.
And Thief? Seriously? He was a CEO of Space X and last thing he wanted was to be Tesla CEO...but Martin was failing and he had to step in. Its shameful how they are twisting things.
The company was just a name on a piece of paper before Elon joined. There were no employees or products or technology. Basically nothing.
You can find all this out by googling it.. 😂
Musk provided no technical input, only cosmetic. It’s also an objective fact that he isn’t an engineer
@@sanjaygupta666 I was hoping they would expand on your first point a little more. I'm going to check for myself, but if that is the case, he really isn't a founder. I think there's nuance in your second, although it is more difficult for a someone who is not an engineer, it is not impossible to innovate.
HOwever, if there was no Elon there would be NO CHANCE of there being a Tesla. None, if you know the whole story of how it began and continued. Elon took massive risk to push Tesla onto the main stage.
Without Elon Tesla would be a tiny company doing bugger all. Elon made Tesla.
Probably would have been dead
Without Mr. Musk, Tesla (the car company) would be as much of a household word as AC Propulsion... even less, since we only remember them because of Tesla (the car company). Well... I knew of them since the beginning, but I've been seriously interested in electric cars (and other forms of sustainable energy systems and transport) since the late 80's.
The American taxpayers made Tesla, Tesla.
@@devinmillermediaIf taxpayer money is all it took to make successful companies you'd have hundreds of Teslas.
He didn’t found Tesla. He invested in it.
It's not clear what contribution Elon made at the start, but he was very annoyed for being ignored in the initial press release which leads me to believe he played a bigger role than you made out. There is one thing for certain, Tesla would not be around today if it wasn't for him, regardless of the mistakes he made along the way.
His arrogance is not an argument
Apparently Elon has invented time travel and we just don't know about it. That's the only way how you can become a founder of a company that existed for over a year before you started investing a single dollar into it.
The person who gets to be a founder is the one who has the most time and money to get a court to affirm the agreement of who the founder or in this case agree to a settlement, usually for money to not be called a founder... sad but true
Elon needs TESLA so he can fund his SpaceX missions. So he can go to Mars.
Good 🤝
youtube thumbnails looove that elon raising his eyebrow picture for some reason
I am the Founder kidding btw great research & video
Elon is Tesla. It is what it is and all it's products, even the roadster, are what they are, because of elon. He is the decider.
Same could be said of Bill Gates with Windows (DOS was someone else’s idea that Gates beat IBM to). And of Steve Jobs, the Apple operating system is modified Unix (though Jobs did make sure the Beos wasn’t used). Musk brought the energy, talent and money that was needed to drive Tesla forward as a successful company. Very unlikely under the “original founders”.
Bill gates knew stuff to do with softwares
Also, Steve Wozniak built the first two apple computers
Without Elon Tesla would not exist today.
This is almost like asking to an adopted child abandoned by his parent ",who are your parents".
Those who win battles write history
Very nice and informative - thank you very much
that Donald Trump reference "Tim Apple" :D
Tesla would have been another one of the many failed EV companies without Elon. Eberhad and Tarpening would not be known to the wider public.
Neither was Elon at that point really. He was maybe known in the valley because of his PayPal exit and between space nerds as a waco who is building rocets, but not much beyond that. Also Tesla sold those first 100+ cars without Elons "star" assistance. The only real star at the unveiling was Scharzenneger who really brought Tesla to the attention of news outlets around the world. Its ony after this initial sucess that Elon had stepped in. And he really used both of his businesses to build him aura of real life Ironman/next comming of Steve Jobs. I mean these early emails from him make it clearly plain: His biggest gripe with Eberhart at the time were that he (Eberhart) stole the show. How inconsiderate of CEO! Trying to overshadow chairman himslef. In the end it proves only that Elon is same self centred moron now as he ever been.
I don't think Founder is really a legal term, so this all really doesn't mean much of anything. Just grown men acting like Toddlers.
Although Musk wasn't there when the company was actually incorporated, he became involved a mere 7 months later. And I don't think all that much was done during that 7 months. I also don't think Eberhard or Tarpenning contributed all that much in terms of financing, expertise, leadership, technology development, etc. It seems their major contributions were: coming up with the name Tesla, deciding to start with a sports car targeted at affluent environment conscious buyers, deciding to us Lithium Ion batteries, and convincing Elon to invest heavily. Maybe there was more, but it didn't seem like much.
When a company is founded there is a space on the company charter for whom the founders are. It is very much a legal term.
that HDR is crazy
Ideas are worthless, seeing them through is what brings value. Without Elon there would be no Tesla, so yes, he is the founder.
Without ideas there wouldn't be Tesla.
I'm sick of assholes who know nothing about hard physical sciences spouting "question the science" but NEVER allow anyone to question history or law/legal definitions. Law/legal definitions are NOT some absolute like evolution or Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) or what people PHYSICALLY did in the past. Science is not a subject. Science is simply collectively all methods of knowing things. When you find your car keys, you are doing science, though at a far far less formal level than professional scientists do. So, if one can "question the science" then we can question history and question the law=politics and question definitions of ownership.
money is the issue here.
What are you ranting on about? If ever there was a comment less applicable to a video.
0:50 "mark coins the name tesla"? I guess he coined the name Tesla similar to how the band Hanson got their name. Have you not heard of Nikola Tesla?
Yes, but it didn't describe a car company, dummy. Someone coined the name "Saturn" too even though it's a planet. Someone coined the name Apollo for the vehicles that went to the moon, even though the God existed previously.
Reading is fundamental.
They should start another company if they are that good.
Didn't they try... and fail?
NO ONE CARES. NO ELON = NO TESLA 💯💯💯
10:44 you called Tim Cook "Tim Apple" 🤣
Money wins all the time. You need it to buy people out
😂😂😂😂 not anymore if people hold shares in your company you fucked.....
The company wouldn't have gotten started without Elon putting his own money into it. The other guys refused to invest their own money.
@@JamilaJibril-e8h founders have grace period on the shares they own. If you leave within the first two years then you’ll get nothing
Then why didn't Toyota or GM crush Tesla?
@@alchemist_one they need product outreach.,.. like the rest ... No one crush no one it's business... Once you run out of money you are done
Who does your video editing?
Eberhard claiming he had no money is laughable. He had millions beforehand and certainly had at least a million left over plus 25% of Tesla
Yeah but unlike a public company, it is hard to liquidate your shares during VC stages. It may be hugely possible he had no short term liquidity for his day to day cost of living
@@Sameer-d7w He also did not accomplish shit, he did not make money for anyone, not investors or himself, where would he expect money to come from?😂
@@Sameer-d7w dudem Musk was living with friends, as he had put every last penny in Tesla & Space X, Eberhard could also have done it, but he plaid safe and smart, not mad like MUsk. He had lot of assets, that is not even a question.
It doesn't really matter who founded the original Tesla that went nowhere with only a basic prototype. The Tesla today is all Elon. We need to understand Tesla company did not invent EV or did not invent EV conversion tech. What Tesla has invented is commercial manufacturing and scaling of EVs. And a lot of other things since then. This kind of things just sound like whining.
He's not gonna fuck you
He wasn't a founder but he was a huge investor and had a vision
What vision. Spilling lies and fraud? This guy is a criminal and belong next to his friends Sam Bankmann Fried, Elizabeth Holmes, and Trevor Milton.
he sold a vision tesla won't ever be able to deliver.
@@Th1200good visions usually seem that way. You dare to dream that's why he's landing rockets for fun.
@@selom6139
That is not how the real world works.
Elon claims to have found the holy grail for everything (rapid reuasability @spacex, FSD & the semi @Tesla) and promises it to be "almost there" to lure investments.
Meanwhile Tesla deliveres the worst car of the century while experts on FSD actually explain that tesla's FSD is hot garbage and the backwards compatibility for robotaxis claim is also a lie ("It's financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla. It'll be like owning a horse in three years.")
A vision is something which is actually possible to achieve (like ASML's EUV lithography systems), but all the "Visions" Musk had were either bought from other people, cold coffee for industry insiders or just completely dumb (Boring Company)
Is it correct to say that people had mostly not digitized books yet by 1997? I realize Google made a major initiative to digitize physically type-set books going back to Gutenberg, but hadn't publishers been producing most new titles on digitally type-set manuscripts since circa 1985? Maybe my sense of historic scale is in error. 🤔
.75 speed seems about normal
The law you read states “10% produced” and then You compared to the US fleet - not manufacturing ?
He’s not a founder, he is responsible for the hype and BS, which lets be honest turned its share price to the moon, and now those promises are falling flat, he’ll also be responsible for tanking the firm too, poetic really 😂
Tesla is up 15,000% or more since it went public. What are you talking about?
Let's be honest! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I believe that is all the people that contributed to the first product to be released
The truth is when Elon took over the company barely even had a functioning prototype,,... mass production which is incredibly hard ..... 99% of the work.... And without Elon the company would have certainly gone bankrupt there would be no Tesla in retrospect Elon regrets buying the company he could have could just started something from scratch it would have been less painful
Have you ever done startup in a high-tech manufacturing industry? Have you scaled that company to national status? Have you scaled it to international status?
Elon took an incompetent startup, spent a lot of money dumping 97% of the product they were building, reinventing the product, building the team, and firing that poor loser who keeps turning up and lying about the utterly incompetent job he did.
Epic vid
If being objective still missing some key parts of the story.
I think Elon is a "co-founder" in the broader sense. Sure he wasn't there when they named and incorporated the company so he wasn't a co-founder in the strictest sense but nothing really happened until he invested a big way at the very start and he also took control of the company as board chairman from the very start. I think he deserves to be called a co-founder with a small caveat.
Founder is the first person to com up with the idea, usually one person. Maybe in some cases there are multiple but almost always the spark is from a sole individual.
Naa, it's mostly more... Microsoft, Apple, Facebook are all examples. It's harder to start a company alone
Wrong. Wrong and wrong.
lesson learned if you have a company never let yourself to lose voting rights but get as much as you can have if possible
The original prototype built by Tesla prior to Elon was worthless junk. Nothing from the car ended up in the original Roadster. Elon too over a failed company. This is a bullshit hit piece.
Musk had MUCH more faith in EVs than the original 2 rich guys did. Musk poured MILLIONS of his own money into the venture vs the mere few thousand Mark and Martin did. Musk put his money where his mouth was. Musk brought the PASSION and HARD WORK.
he tried to steal openAI as well then left when he couldnt do it
He’s not a co-founder. He wormed his way into owning the company.
You mean he invested his own money, which the other guys refused to do...
@@HM-hu4hu
Own money
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That is a matter of fact. 😮
I am open minded and a critical thinker. Do we know the whole story? Just wondering if Elon is the one that pulled the other two through the hard times. Maybe the other two are bitter because Elon pushed so hard. Just a thought.
Of course he never founded the company, but it wouldnt be anywhere near where it is today without Elon, he was the one who added value to the company.
It would probably be much further without Elon let be honest. He’s the one holding back all the engineer work of the company
@@meorung05the company was almost bust at the time Elon got involved.
I consider Elon Musk a founder because he was involved early enough and he made some a contribution.
The founder status is not a huge deal to me but it is to Elon because he was trying to groom his status. He is like Steve Jobs - part good/ part bad
Personal viewpoint only: Elon Musk is a genius in marketing. If a University course has a subject call "Social Media Manipulation", Elon Musk properly the inspiration of that. To Elon fan, this is a complement for the record ^^
Yeah, let's just ignore how he led both Tesla and SpaceX not only to success, but to dominance...
Who started or founded an enterprise is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and a wholly POINTLESS discourse.
What matters is who made it a success. Here, nobody can argue against the fact that it is Musk.
the video started off good but left the audience hanging half way. lol
I think you should read the biography, it's illustrated pretty well there
Saying Elon stole Tesla is like saying that Eduardo Saverin put in the work to deserve 30% of Facebook. No shot
When Elon joined Tesla they had no patents, no product, nothing. Tesla is what it is due to Elons vision.
He didn't steal the company, was a business move so the title is misleading...
well
No, he did. Start a company tomorrow and let a future investor remove you and call themselves the starting founder.. I think the person WITH THE INITIAL IDEA 💡 AND DEVELOPMENT is the Founder. Everyone else is Co
@@dice268926 No he didn't steal anything. Dude, you are a viewer with no knowledge of the field. Of course, without the idea, there is no starting point but they were awful at managing a company that went bankrupt. He was smart and straightforward.
@@dice268926 agreed.
@@thedude2404 Thank you for admitting he wasn't the founder. That's the point, if anything it shows ego can make you believe you own anything.
McDonald's is doing bad, if I takeover and lower the Big Mac price and improve operations to double the stock I'M I THE FOUNDER of McDonald's?🤔
He wanted to be the FACE of revolutionary company's
Sounds like a Zuckerberg repeat?
Many many companies that became successful followed this path ..
Someone comes up with a great solution to something but has no business or marketing skills.. or doesn't care to..
The business marketing guy sees what the inventor has made and knows there is a market for this,.
and how to get it made in volume market it, and sell it.
Great video.
Only small thing I find wrong is that it is stated that Tesla Motors was the EV company that made Elon Musk interested in electric vehicles. That honor should go to AC Propulsion, who gave Elon Musk a ride in their tZero roadster in hope of an investment. Their plan was to help other companies make EVs, living of the royalties on the patents used.
Helping Tesla Motors make the Roadster was their biggest mistake, as Tesla decided to use the knowledge to mnake Tesla patents that made it possible to build EVs without using AC Propulsion patents and thous paying AC Propulsion for their role in building their company. When I found this out I stopped rooting for Tesla Motors/Tesla.
When Tesla released their patents for "free" they set two things into motion.
- First they stopped the established automakers from cooperating with AC Propulsion, as their patents were close enough to the Tesla patents that they came with the risk of Tesla demanding that the Terms of use from Tesla, of free access to all the patents owned by a company using Tesla patents, if used.
- Second they made China the leader in developing new EVs, as new companies without patents could be built without risk on the patents Tesla released.
A co founder is only on paper. Those who perservered are Founders of the company. All the tech that was put into Tesla came from SpaceX R&D, Not from these two who started Tesla.