The Choice of Landsknechts over Man-at-Arms!
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Landsknechts are Holy Roman Empire's unique unit that can be trained in the Castle Age. How good are they in Age of Empires 4? And why should you pick them over the already-great HRE Man-at-Arms? Let's find out!
Investigating HRE's Unique Infantry Upgrades Further: • Are the HRE Unique Upg...
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#AgeofEmpires4 #Landsknechts #HRE
0:00 - 0:19 - Intro
0:20 - 1:05 - Unit Stats
1:06 - 2:14 - Landsknechts' Trample Damage!
2:15 - 3:27 - Landsknechts vs Man-at-Arms
3:28 - 4:45 - Versus Knights
4:46 - 5:10 - Versus Horsemen
5:11 - 5:52 - Versus Archers
5:53 - 6:34 - Versus Crossbows
6:35 - 8:09 - Versus Composite Armies
8:10 - 8:29 - Research Time
8:30 - 9:33 - Conclusion - Ігри
Edit: Based on the many questions posed in the comments section below, I've decided to further expand on the Unique Upgrades of the HRE for its infantry to answer your questions. Check it out! ua-cam.com/video/VT8MbxyB0Lc/v-deo.html
How many times did Age of Noob say Landsknecht in this video? My German friends, I hope I've pronounced it correctly all those times! Thanks for the continued support as always, and more Age of Empires content on the horizon - stay tuned!
you pronounced "Landsknecht" pretty well, just the "ch" is not performed in the back of throat. It is more similiar to the "ch" like in "french" but we could argue it is a kind of dialect :D
@@Raydramon I've heard from a few Germans to not pronounce the "cht" at the end as "ch" or "sh" sounds in English, but I know zero German or any of its dialects so I wouldn't know myself.. :D I suppose there're a few correct pronunciations then based on what you said :)
You did a pretty good job.
@@AgeofNoob „ch“ is correct, when you are coming from Switzerland or parts of Swabia. Very well done
I find it hilarious that you put so much time and effort into making a high quality Video but can't be bothered to use google translate to check the pronounciation :D
The best value I've gotten out of Landsknechts is definitely in protecting siege weapons against torch rushes. Especially glorious if you load a few inside a ram and bait a villager pull, as they can slaughter dozens of villagers in a matter of seconds.
That's genius!
Thats smart nice
Found the HRE main
"If I test every single scenario this video would take an hour long"
- Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here...
An hour long SOTL video? Sign me up. 11
@@AgeofNoob no but he tests basically every scenario
@@artemislogic5252 No he doesn't mate. It's impossible. There are 60+ military units in the game. There are also a plethora of upgrades (unique and generic) that affect outcomes as well. Then there is equality of resources and numbers. Then there is the difference of value of resources in different times of the game. Then there are different scenarios for each engagement. And so on and so on. Combine all of those and we're talking tens of thousands of different scenarios here. Nobody wants to watch every scenario play out for tens of hours.
I'm a long-time viewer of SOTL from the very beginning. He rightfully skips unimportant details and makes some assumptions to simplify concepts in most of this type of videos - as he should, because his videos would be 10 hours long as well otherwise.
The viewer just needs to know the fundamental engagements and can ballpark the rest in the game. :)
The only additional test we really needed was fully upgraded MAA comparison would have been game changer
@@patriciospamer1995 Check out the newest video! :)
amazing quality content right here. one thing that i like to add is that both units work really well togheter, a mass of mixed Landsknechts and MAA work better in any situation than a mass of only MAA or Landsknechts, the MAA tank the damage for the Landsknechts allowing them to deal even more damage that they can in their own, is a truly melee deathball
Glad you liked it quinti! Indeed, it'd be interesting to see whether some high-elo players would mix both for their army comp :)
@@AgeofNoob When there's prize money involved, they'll make an excel spreadsheet and find the optimal mixture!
Off the cuff, if you've got pro-level APM, I'd say charge with Landsknechts in front, pull them back for just a second to let the MAAs in front and agro the opponent, then attack move the whole group to let the fight play out.
@@AgeofNoob I've seen Viper mix them.
Problem with mixing them is that you have to pay for the upgrades for both
I really like that the first attack animation is different 1:07
The landsknecht enjoys himself but next time he should be working at attacking his enemies rathee than the air in front of them
The first attack animation is specifically that far apart - it helps a group of Landsknechts deal a massive blow in the first hit after a charge, while other melee units scramble to get into position to begin hitting. :)
Is how force leap of a jedi 🤣
Funfact: Landsknecht is only the designation for foot soldiers, the Landsknecht used Pikes, Crossbows, Zweihander, Muskets, Arquebus and many more weapons. 😉
As a north germanic; Noh! Axes only! (HRE hidden scandinavia?)
They confused with doppelsoldner.
Those were the guys rushing in front with fancy hats and big swords.
Yes you are right. But they got famous for using the heavy long swords. With that they were capable of detroying the horses legs when enemy knights or riders attacked. They stand at the front line, ca. four meters from each other in a row. Their swords were nearly two meters long. When the enemy riders arrived to trample them down, they stepped byside and slashes their swords in the legs of the attacking horses. The horses break down and the riders or knights felt to the ground. Since they were unable to stand up alone (the knights) the very heavy swords could penetrate the armor of a knight (because of the weapon's weight) or were used as a sledgehammer to kill them. Light riders became seriously injured by the fall and most of them weren't able to fight again. I come from the south of Germany and just at this time there are many festivals - so called Sommerfeste or Volksfeste. Pupils dressed like Landsknechte (the plural is not called Landsknechts :). When I was in school one of our german and history teacher told us this. So i think the makers of age of empires 4 made a very good job. They drew them for what they were famous for:)
@@simonnagel5135 I do not know where your teacher got his information but what he said is suicide. The Pike or Landsknechtspieß was the weapon against the kights.
Edit: And with this and the Longbow the time of the knigths were over.
@@captainobvious8530 doppelsoldner are a type of Landsknecht that just fought in the front and received double the pay for it. It's just that usually in the front, you want to use certain weapons.
This video was just perfect!
Thanks for the high production value, zoomed in fights, and reasonable length!
Good to hear you enjoyed it Louis. More on the way. :)
I feel like you've actually missed out on testing the ideal use case for landsnecht: mixed in with men at arms or other more durable for the cost units to tank ranged fire. A few of them mixed in with your spears or MAA can help you win cost effective engagements vs a lot of non area of effect things
Quality content as usual. An idea for youtube series would be some mathification of units, like, how many arrows/hits a unit can take before it falls. For example, how many spearmen hits a horseman can take and if it's worth to get the blacksmith +1 armor or +1 defense on each age, or how many archers I'll need to 1shot a spearman, or how many crossbows against m@a, stuff like these are always nice
appreciate the video, was curious about this myself. The aesthetics of the video was also top notch.
Just came across this channel a day or two ago. All your content is really, really good. Keep up the good work man!
Appreciate the kind words. Cheers. :)
This was some high quality content! Liked and subbed
Thank you for the support
Excellent analysis. Gives insight. More of these please!
Nice video man. Thumbs up for the Knights of Honor music in the background
Great video! It would be interesting to see which attacking formation is better to use with a Landsknecht army in comparisson with a mixed MaA and Landsknecht army.
Interesting video. I never really made the Landsknecht work in my army, the high gold cost for an infantry unit certainly is quite tough.
Really didn't expect these results. Thanks for the video
nice video. i will try mixing them in again. but i would really like to see what the fully upgraded test would be since i feel like fully upgraded MAA are even very good vs knights and other Infantery as well.
super important video which increases understanding and saves lots of time. Liked and subscribes, good job
Glad you liked it and thanks for the support mate!
Wonderfull research. Would love to see more!
Just subscribed, looking forward for more of this type of videos :)
Wow, very interesting. Will have to try them now. Thanks for the vid!
You're welcome - glad you liked it Jarod!
More of this please. Nicely done video thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Really quality video! Subbed.
Actually I am curious about how I can use Landsknechts when playing HRE. Thanks to you bro. Great job 👍
You're welcome Huseyin!
I have wondered about this for AGES! THANK YOU
Nice video! However I think it would have been a great addition if you did add the mace and two handed upgrades. This is the part what makes M@A of HRE so good, as it boosts their damage. I think that would bring the conclusion closer to using them mainly instead of the landsknechts. Also, siege is a real thing in most games. Almost everyone will be building siege and perhaps that will also be a main case where you don't want to build landsknechts as most of them will die by for example a few mangonel shots.
that's why we put them in the rams
@@Ash-vm3ut To expensive to be kept out of battle.
@@ncgzeal you are not talking them out of the battle, just saving their hp while rams are moving towards the enemy.
Great Video the amount of tests you made is impressive! Subbed just because of that.
The only thing I would have loved to see as well is how Landsknecht fair in mixed battles as the game suggests you should just mix a few into your normal army. Looking at your video it seems that Landsknecht are actually stronger if blobbed than mixed in!? Would be interesting to know if it makes sense to mix a few into your MAA army or just go full-out landsknecht.
Thanks for showing us with alot of tests that Landsknecht might not be as bad as people think they are. (even a bit better now since x-bows got buffed vs MAA?)
another great jog, bro. Congratulation!
Excellent video! They sort of remind me of the eagle warriors. Quick and effective cav alternative.
Thanks Candy! Eagles are much, much tankier though to arrows, whereas the Landsknechts get rekt.. 11
I don't know if it would be a good idea but I'd throw a few of them in a unit formation you get a bit more cleave damage here and there whilst the MAA hold the line for longer. Your also more likely to get a single unit attacking a LSN then a group. You'd have to test it though to see if its worthwhile.
It would 100% help with the initial engagement, but the MAA would still lose in numbers. But yes, microing your melee army to space out for the first hit will definitely have a positive effect on the outcome for you, so if you have ranged help, you can nuke down the Landsknechts quickly!
Thanks for showing hp in tests, really helpful.
Nice I like this kind of video, would love to see post buff nest of bees vs mangonels!
Oh yeah, that'd be great to see!
fantastic video!
7:30 that archer on the left is a spy, a mole - he's not even shooting at the blue team!
The AoE analyst community is sooo freaking good. You're doing such an amazing job, there's SOTL for age2, really great work.
I don't even play any age game now(don't get time, sad corporate noise), but I really enjoy these videos. Keep up the amazing work. 🖤🖤🖤🖤
Good Job!
Liked it.
Great video, thank you. 💖
Good video. Really no way to test mixed armies of LKs and MAA, one important match up is vs spearmen though. HRE likes to get to castle first and get relics, Knights don't need upgrades (as in from hardened to veteran) unlike MAA, are fast and the prelates can heal them, so they're ideal for getting relics, also you can bait your opponent into making spears/xbows and then mow them with landsknecht
I'd be curious to see if there is any splash damage while firebombing buildings/siege, i.e. if I am torching a building while getting attacked, do those enemy units also take damage?
Love it! Great content : D
Thanks Voldemort!
The Landsknechte got famous for using the heavy long swords. With that they were capable of detroying the horses legs when enemy knights or riders attacked. They stand at the front line, ca. four meters from each other in a row. Their swords were nearly two meters long. When the enemy riders arrived to trample them down, they stepped byside and slashes their swords in the legs of the attacking horses. The horses break down and the riders or knights felt to the ground. Since they were unable to stand up alone (the knights) the very heavy swords could penetrate the armor of a knight (because of the weapon's weight) or were used as a sledgehammer to kill them. Light riders became seriously injured by the fall and most of them weren't able to fight again. I come from the south of Germany and just at this time there are many festivals - so called Sommerfeste or Volksfeste. Pupils dressed like Landsknechte (the plural is not called Landsknechts :). When I was in school one of our german and history teacher told us this. So i think the makers of age of empires 4 made a very good job. They drew them for what they were famous for. Wish you strategy fans the best :)
Man, we gor more new unique MaM units now! hope you treat this one more time.
Spirit of the noob! Also, let’s appreciate the awesome attack animations of the landsknecht
You should test them against villagers. How many can they take down before they get inside the towncenter or tower. I feel we may be surprised in this test.
Didn't know they were that good. Thanks for the knowledge!
I originally started making this video to explain how crap they are - but as I tested them, I realized my initial impression wasn't true.. 11
great job!
When comparing stat tables for two units, why not have them side to side, instead of showing one table after the other?
I thought exactly the same
probably the best use for the Landsknechts is to mix just a few of them in a MAA spam like 30 MAA and 10 Landsknechts and call it a day (they should lower the gold cost to 60)
i always get 6 barracks and make 5 mma and 1 landsknecht. 2h mace is even better than the landsknecht in most scenarios. But the aoe and speed can wreck crossbows and blobs.
Hi @Age of Noob, ty for the content, can you pls answer me to a question, do Chinese FireLancers' charge have a cooldwon? i just faced someone who was abusing that and his firelancers somehow didnt have a cooldown, it was like 1 second, i just wonder is it a bug or just it has to be like that?
I will explore Fire Lancers soon - stay tuned! :)
Thank you for good video!
Nice work
The quality of video we all wanted!
A nice combo ive found with landsknecht was horsemen. They hold down whatever ranged units are trying to kite the landsknecht, providing you with an effective meatshield letting the landsknecht flank and focus down the main body of the enemy army. They absolute tear through pikemen so the horsemen are safe vs their worst counter. Horsemen kill off crossbows and archers and landsknecht deal heavy damage to cavalry and heavy infantry..
Hey AoN. Good topic there! I have couple of questions:
How much better do maa do with drills and unique techs (2h maces) as dmg dealers and when chasing down archers?
I think context is king in this situation. Maa normally are the tanky frontline against archers and spears are the tanky frontline against cavalry. So yes, maa are a defensive unit, but HRE has faster, stronger maa that can trade equally against knights.
With this in mind the question is whether there are scenarios when you should make just maa, just Landsknechts, or both.
I think Drills would have a higher impact on Landsknechts than the MAA when chasing down units, as the Landsknechts get one-shot by critical mass archers before they can reach them. With full unique techs, the line between the Landsknechts and the MAA really does blur though, so you're right. A mix of both can make sense in many scenarios - but as I mentioned in the video, the Landsknechts are ready to go in the Castle age without having to wait or spend on any resources :)
Very nice music. I believe it was from a old Bulgarian strategy game, I forgot its name
Knights of Honor, developed by Blacksea Studios. :)
Love this type of content
Glad you liked it Luis!
Hey age i am a HUGE fan of your videos :D
I want you to ask if you could consider something:
You regularly upload videos about exploits in the game. Most of them are already declared as "known issues".
Would you consider to upload videos explaining this bugs only when they are already fixed?
I really like this format, but you are a huge voice in the age 4 community and one of the number one sources if a new exploit is in the game.
But the moment u upload an exploit video the amount of Users exploiting it increases very fast....
greetings
Who cares about the content of the video if you can get big nostalgic vibes from the beautiful Knights of Honor music in the background
KOH Soundtrack
Love this type of video. Often times playing as Chinese I have a bit better eco but can't easily translate that into successes quickly during engagement. Often times games were won by slowly dragging down the opponent, which I think shouldn't really be the case when I have a 20vil lead and map control.
Glad you liked it Henry! Chinese specific videos will also be uploaded in the future!
@@AgeofNoob curious how you made the video. Rn we don't have map editor so do you have to get 2 games and set it up to play against each other?😂
@@HenryElfin Unfortunately, that's exactly what I had to do.. :D Bought the game twice and had a secondary laptop running the game..
@@AgeofNoob 😂 price to pay for making content I guess
wow very informative!
Yes! Love this. I want to see this unit used more!!
Glad you liked it Luke!
One hundred years has flown in the gaming industry and units still fight with air.
not because they couldnt animate that but because it would make the performance flop
@@theminuskai7453BS, all I say is Total War
@@gunther4150 aoe 4 has higher requirements
Nice video. Do you use 2 copies of the game to do tests like this? Is there anyway to test units against each other with only 1 copy of the game?
Indeed, I unfortunately had to buy the game twice and run it on two different machines to capture this footage..
@@AgeofNoob That's what I thought. Thanks for the answer. :)
maaaaan, had to hit me with the random 'Longing' song from the Last of Us, was not expecting the wave of feels
TLOU soundtrack
Landsknecht wearing zweihander like longsword on his hip is comedy gold, game is fairly accurate to history but this is a bit ridiculous 🤣
This video saves you hundreds of hours to learn how to play. Thank you
No problem!
Amazing! I've been maining HRE for about 30 hours now and I keep getting my ass handed to me. This was presumably tested without the speed upgrade yes? I'd think LK would mow down archers due to speed even quicker if they had the upgrade.
HRE main here: LK get shredded by archers since arrows counter light armor. Despite this video saying otherwise the Landsknechts got no place in the current meta. They are way to expensive and volunerable to almost all units. Long story short they are a waste of ressources. Always go for M@A over LK.
@@Nairam10 This. So much this. This video promotes such an untrue narrative I could scream. And I say this as a guy who WISHES that the Lansdknecht was even the least bit feasible, because I love the historical significance and their aesthetic. But unfortunately they're trash.
For one thing, the disclaimer "This video shows both units without upgrades." Okay, the Man at Arm's unique upgrades are incredible and are kind of the reason you'd want to play HRE in the first place. Why would Man at Arms not have the civilization's iconic, defining upgrades? Mace-at-Arms are the most iconic part of HRE, next to the unusable Landsknecht.
Then the "tests" show the Landsknecht clobbering (un-upgraded) melee units. Besides the previously-mentioned fallacy of them not having their upgrades, this scenario presupposes that the Landsknecht will EVER be able to engage in massed melee line combat with the enemy at any point in a game of AoE4, and that's just not true. It literally never happens unless you are playing LAN with a friend and say "Hey let's just run melee units at each other." This is the heaviest range-oriented AoE since AoE3, where 9/10ths of the units had guns. Everyone has ranged units, and ranged units kill Landsknecht faster than literally any other infantry unit.
Also, by the time you're at the point where you can make any amount of Landsknecht, you're talking well into HRE castle age. (And keep in mind that some other race's castle ages *will* come faster!) The Landsknecht aren't just going to be facing archers (which already shred them), they're going to be getting 1-shotted by good range + siege. This unit just has no place in a game where you're making units for effectiveness, ala a strategy game.
@@LightningGentleman
- in imperial age they got no use at all.
- in castle age they are usable when your enemy has no ranged units nor mangonels and you fight on open field(which never happens)
- Outposts, towers, towncenters and castles just whipe your LK's - so even producing LK's for the purpose of killing villagers is a waste of ressources
- any form of ranged units shredd LK's - even crossbowmen
The only way to make use of them is for defensive purposes. So in case you want to protect your villagers from raiding units. Sometimes you can place them in forests to prepare an ambush, but that is very very sitational.
@@Nairam10 Right, and seldom in a back-and-forth strategy game are you going to make an infantry unit with such situational applications. They're generally just supposed to be there to take a hit or two and soak. This one and its "they're okay in a ram sometimes," just isn't worth it.
I think testing them with men at arms having maces and two handed weapons upgraded would be better, as HRE does have those upgrades. It's more of a choice for HRE to whether they'd make which cause the other civs don't have them.
what I'm wondering is: what if you have ranged units as your main troup, like maybe 1:1 with your melee ones, if the Man at arms better are, as your ranged unit will survive longer and do so more dmg
I run a 5-2-1 combo with M@A - Spears - Landesknect... it is a death ball that is only vulnerable to mass range and mango spam... So counter with some mangos and springalds of your own!
What if the Landsknecht was more like his expensive real-life counterpart? He would have a saber in case he lost his main sword for faster attack speed and parries, maybe a musket or pistol to penetrate the knight's armor as well. Also a pike or polarm for anti-calvary. At least he have this insane variety of arms?
Great job… Thanks!
Oh the pronunciation!
I hear you say:
/Landsg - k - negts/ similar to "Lands Connects"
It should be something like:
/Land - SHHH - nekts / similar to "Land 🤫 Necks"
Great video BTW!! I'm subscribed now
Could you compare the landsknecht to the hre men at arms with both their upgrades? (2handed and maces) it’s hard to know which unit to build if your actually playing the HRE. I feel like it’s always the man at arms they are power houses after those upgrades
Those upgrades help against other Heavy units overall - but they don't really change the outcomes.. :)
@@AgeofNoob 2 handed weapon is extra damage for all targets, and maces would improve the fights, especially on the mixed fight that knights ran them over at 7 minutes
yes the maa with 2 mace wreck everything, blobs and single targets. Landsknecht is good against xbows because the mma are slow.. MMa should still win against xbow but they will kite you so much it gets boring.
1:25 what if you put him a little closer, here he is hitting at max range as soon as possible but one could move him closer, would he hit 3 rows? On a side note the Landsknecht seem to be able to hit many more targets when say it is villagers gathering berries maybe because they would stand super close to one another.
4:10 that test would be relevant only if you did researched the mace upgrade
Landsknecht means something like "country servants" didnt noticed that they called in the english overlay of AoE still in german
what is the music been used in the ending part of the conclusion?
Please do a "zhuge nu vs crossbow "
I tend to favor MaA with maces late game since they can tank a lot of damage while bringing down structures, a decent sized blob can even bring a castle down without too many of them dying. Combine them with bombards and mangoes to back them up, and they are pretty resilient for raiding a base
Landsknecht is better if the enemy invested in crossbow
As always, the answer is "it depends".. 11
@@PolarMuttaqin its not better vs crossbows. Yes, they dont take bonus dmg from then, but man at arms have a lot more hp and even with bonus dmg can tank almost the same amount of shots
Do i need 2 Accounts to do the same testing ? Thank you !
I want to see how spread formation changes these results
That is really cool.
u didnt try a mix of both man at arms and landsknechts
?
Seems like a bunch of LK with maybe a third MAA to tank some damage would be a good Frontline. Ofc then you'd have to upgrade both ..
good video :")
Kind of a bummer that the only equal resources comparison here was LKs vs MAA directly and all the other tests was just equal numbers.
so if we change formation they will counter them
"the Landsknechts are the gyarus of the medievals" a wise man.
So bait your opponent with some MAAs to switch into crossbows, then pump out Landsknechte, got it.
Just need enough anti-siege out. Good thing springalds will still perform great against mangonels after the upcoming patch.
just mix in the landsknecht with mma, ratio 5 to 1. This way u wont lose a lot of units when they enemy gets off good hits with mangonel.
Personally, I think they could reduce the gold cost, increase the health, and reduce the aoe to a single row rather than two rows for the Landsknecht. I have no idea if that would garner the results im thinking of, but after 150+ hrs in this game with plenty of HRE opponents, I hardly ever see Landsknechts. Even when they're on the field i can still body block them in many situations and stop them from getting their bonuses. Idk if making them tankier and cheaper with less DPS would change anything, but its been on my mind a lot when I play against or as them.
Tankier + cheaper + less DPS Landsknechts = Men at Arms
Landsknechts seem to fair a lot better than I thought, but I think comparing them to MAA without their two upgrades is a faulty comparison. What sort of HRE doesn't get Maces and 2-handed weapons?
Check out the latest video my friend!
Video Idea : Chu ko Nu Vs Archer
Handcannoner vs crossbow
What if the enemy uses the formation where they keep distance from each other? Would landskenect still good against archer?
Great question - would definitely help with the initial engagement for sure - but then they'd have to get close anyway. But this is for melee units; archers have to be close to one another to kite away, otherwise you'd lose your critical mass immediately.
no the wont be, thats why if u want to use those landsknecht, always mix in with a ratio of about 1 to 5. or something like that.
You should have upgraded the Men at Arms to Maces and two handed… because that’s what most ppl do as HRE.
Check out the latest video :)
@@AgeofNoob yes this was perfect!
The great Ottoman emperor Age of Noob is stepping on the grounds of the old Japanese monarch Spirit of the Law. Who will win in this battle of the giants! To arms, my fellow agers!
11
why is it ''Knights of Honor'' music at the background??
What about upgraded man at arm with 2 handed weapon ?
i think Landsknechts should have a bonus again cav, it would be nice for balance and it historical accrual