@Overloud: One item that’s technically level related that has appeared to work completely backwards for years (since TH2 or TH3) is the Sensitivity toggle under Master Controls. It states 1) Low matches output level of single coils and 2) High matches the output of humbuckers. In practice this selection seems to be in reverse. If you have a single coil output and select Low (as suggested) the level compared to High is significantly lower and if you have a humbucker and select High (as suggested) the level compared to Low is way overblown. It’s as if the software is increasing the input gain for suggested humbuckers using High and decreasing the input gain for suggested single coils using Low. Isn’t this in fact the opposite of the desired result?
the idea is to apply the same representative signal level coming from single coils, it is not a compensation tool, its a tool to best represent the actual responses of amplifiers to the given signal level. audio interfaces preamps do not process the signal levels between pickups in an audibly noticable way. the signal levels are too low and too sterile to make a genuine difference when converting into the digital realm, save the actual frequency response, which is NOT based on signal level or output.
@@FulcrumsEdge Good afternoon. You're not understanding as you give a lesson everyone is already aware of. It does NOT apply the same representative signal level as they work backwards. Do you actually think some of us don't have multiple high-grade heads, cabinets , and guitar selections to choose from, and are keenly aware of the real world interactions having done so for decades? I'm not trying to slam you bud, but you're defending a broken "feature" at best.
@@TheSavage1969 when you describe the feature that you took issue with seeming as reversed in it's intended role, and misrepresenting what it is doing because you misunderstood it, then yes, I have to assume you're not exactly sure what you're talking about. Owning a single or multiple high grade amplifiers and cabinets only guarantees one thing. You either had the money at one point to buy those things, or you indebted yourself to the ownership of said items. That does not give you validation in making arguments especially if you are going to make claims that are based on ignorance of the items stated purpose. That ownership and your "decades of experience" guarantess nothing but the material ownership and.... well... hopefully not a waste of decades of your life, but how you use your experiences and share them is up to you. It definitely does not mean that you have developed a working knowledge of amplifier circuits or the understanding of the flow of electrical current in an audio signal path or the representation of that in a digitally converted manner by those who program such things. It kind of just exemplifies, in essence, what you were "trying not to do" by reiterating my first point. Look at the sign, read the words on the sign, either acknowledge and accept what's on the sign, or move on, cause arguing about a sign meaning or doing something different than it says is kind of pointless. High and low settings relate only to how the average guitar amplifiers high and low inputs work through their attenuating capacitance when receiving a hot input signal and a low input signal. On TH-U, a passive humbucker will be perceived to be attenuated to a certain level by the low setting as designated by the software modeling coding. The high input will be modeled to simulate a hotter signal based on the same analog reference. The same goes for single coils, the same goes for active circuit pickups, and passive pickups with a preamp in the chain. It doesn't do anything other than model as best as it can, how an amplifier responds to the level and impedence of the incoming guitar signal as well as the designated high or low input sensitivity setting in TH-U. It works as it should, at least as well as a digital copy can with today's tech.
@@FulcrumsEdge Nice mini-rant, except the setting does not represent how an amplifier responds to signals as suggested by them: "1) Low matches output level of single coils and 2) High matches the output of humbuckers." It doesn't work as it should, at all. Pick an amp modeling of an actual amp you own. In the sim plug in via single coils and set to "low", same for humbuckers set at "high", then compare to your physical amp of the "model". Not the same, not even close. There's your sign, that's the reality.
So, you can change the input level and save it for each preset? I thought you just set the input level for everything with the green section. I've been messing with the output which stays as a global setting. Being able to set the input level for each preset is great thing to know (unless I heard incorrectly). Can't wait to give it a try.
To get to the green zone I need to raise the input in my audio interface (Clarett 4Pre USB) to the point it clips in the instrument input, while my DAW (ableton) tells me I am reaching -4db, which is insane.
it shouldn't stay in the green, it should barely tap the green upon the largest point of the transient.... and that's when playing your guitar AS HARD AS YOU CAN. you should also probably turn your daws input and output level meters to represent rms and not peak levels. interfaces inputs LEDs will "clip" often, these lights on interface preamps are not accurate, are overly sensitive, and in general are not truly clipping when flashing intermittently at the peak of a strumming or picking transient. guitar transients are inherently spiky. the clipping lights are designed to respond to line level signals far better than their instrument level inputs and are not really good for as your basis for determining input level.
Why not just calibrate the presets for the typical -18dbu input level? That’s the most common calcination level for converters to equal 0db on a VU meter.
Absolutely agreed. The vid even states that they "tweak" the level of ALL presets and rigs before releasing them. I find this to be suspicious at best since they vary wildly in level, some packs even clipping into the chained virtual components BEFORE ever getting to the plugin's output stage. How many presets have you loaded up and the rig or cab sim into the downstream "rack" effect (like delay or reverb) within the preset gets the clipped warning light constantly....this is even with very low output PUPS. I digress a bit but tbh it's the first thing I do when I get another rig pack, I run through all of them, calibrate, and save the presets/banks so it's a non-issue later. Takes time but saves much of it later when you're in "creative" mode and don't need to be fooling with gain staging constantly during that time. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the product for years (once Rig Player came out it got placed back into my top 3 goto's), but there's some details that are frustrating at times for sure. Regards.
guitar amplifier gain stages do not work based input vu meters, vu meters are a representation of a decibel level, which is a theoretical premise based on our perception of loudness and analog clipping. Guitar amplifiers do not function based on this premise, or have their circuits built around this premise. our ears perceive amplifier gain through this premise.... TH-U does not model their software to replicate the way in which we decided to represent our ability to understand audible dynamics. they model their software to best apply the audio interfaces input gain stage (ie why the interface will generally have an input that processes a guitar level signal) to react accordingly so as to mimic the guitar amplifier input jack responding to a guitar signal. In order to model amplifiers to actually sound like amplifiers, each stage of the modelling must essentially be a like for like digital representation of the analog the components in an amplifier. vu metering is a mixing and mastering concept and is irrelevant to how any audio signal is processed by an any audio amplifier or audio processing unit.
Xtone is an audio interface which has not preamp level control for guitar input chanel even it is specialized for electric guitar. So I could not adjust guitar input level on THU overloud with Xtone. I felt huge sound difference from THU overloud Xtone(could not control guitar input level and Scrallet 3rd gen(available adjust guitar input level). currently I want to use Xtone because it is all in one audio interface ( provide midi foot control switch). Can you sudgget best way to use xtone with thu overloud? Xtone input impedance is 1M ohm
Sorry, but I was expecting more knowledge from the potters themselves of the plugin. All the information given in this vid is wrong. Setting the gain of the interface until "almost clip" the VU meter is wrong for guitar amp sims based on profiling (which is the case of the TH-U rig player). These plugin is made using a reference value of input gain of +6dB (this info was given by Overloud themselves). The way of gain staging the interface to get the profiles working as the original amps that they profile is setting the input gain to the minimum and then applying a software boost (or cut) to match the reference value (guitar forums explain it, just search for input gain for guitar amp plugins). It seems that Overloud doesn't know what they're taking about. Not a surprise, though, since their rig player is just a kemper profiles player (and I'm not going to ask how they programmed it).
Hmm, bear in mind that it's "wrong" for neural dsp plugins or NAM because they've specifically tailored their amp models to respond in a way that, on some usb audio interfaces you can put gain on 0. TH-U are telling you here that they don't do this. But, although they are claiming to tweak each pack before release it's likely they are like Amplitude 5 with the gain all over the place between different packs and amps. There's no specific gain setting on your interface or input gain in the plugin that will work for all the amps and cabs. So it's broken, but what they are saying here isn't wrong, it's their product that is broken so you have to set the input level so you don't clip yourself - possibly you'll need a different level for each amp model. Note that setting input gain on zero etc is just one way of setting the input gain. It's not a 'correct way' or anything (what would be the point in an input gain knob that was always supposed to be on zero?). It was described in this way to make the instructions simple and so that the only dial you had to adjust was the input gain in the plugin (which on some other products you can set once for all their models based on your audio interfaces max input dbu value) - note too that many devices that act as a usb audio interface (e.g pod xt and other line 6 products) don't even have an input gain knob to adjust - you simply cannot set the guitar into the 'green' part at all using TH-U's interface.
I feel like this video is long overdue. Thanks for explaining.
A real person to read the copy is always the best choice.
@Overloud:
One item that’s technically level related that has appeared to work completely backwards for years (since TH2 or TH3) is the Sensitivity toggle under Master Controls. It states 1) Low matches output level of single coils and 2) High matches the output of humbuckers. In practice this selection seems to be in reverse. If you have a single coil output and select Low (as suggested) the level compared to High is significantly lower and if you have a humbucker and select High (as suggested) the level compared to Low is way overblown.
It’s as if the software is increasing the input gain for suggested humbuckers using High and decreasing the input gain for suggested single coils using Low. Isn’t this in fact the opposite of the desired result?
That has been my impression, as well. High output sounds better with my single coils, it's probably just decibel boost, but still.
the idea is to apply the same representative signal level coming from single coils, it is not a compensation tool, its a tool to best represent the actual responses of amplifiers to the given signal level. audio interfaces preamps do not process the signal levels between pickups in an audibly noticable way. the signal levels are too low and too sterile to make a genuine difference when converting into the digital realm, save the actual frequency response, which is NOT based on signal level or output.
@@FulcrumsEdge Good afternoon. You're not understanding as you give a lesson everyone is already aware of. It does NOT apply the same representative signal level as they work backwards. Do you actually think some of us don't have multiple high-grade heads, cabinets , and guitar selections to choose from, and are keenly aware of the real world interactions having done so for decades? I'm not trying to slam you bud, but you're defending a broken "feature" at best.
@@TheSavage1969 when you describe the feature that you took issue with seeming as reversed in it's intended role, and misrepresenting what it is doing because you misunderstood it, then yes, I have to assume you're not exactly sure what you're talking about. Owning a single or multiple high grade amplifiers and cabinets only guarantees one thing. You either had the money at one point to buy those things, or you indebted yourself to the ownership of said items. That does not give you validation in making arguments especially if you are going to make claims that are based on ignorance of the items stated purpose. That ownership and your "decades of experience" guarantess nothing but the material ownership and.... well... hopefully not a waste of decades of your life, but how you use your experiences and share them is up to you. It definitely does not mean that you have developed a working knowledge of amplifier circuits or the understanding of the flow of electrical current in an audio signal path or the representation of that in a digitally converted manner by those who program such things. It kind of just exemplifies, in essence, what you were "trying not to do" by reiterating my first point. Look at the sign, read the words on the sign, either acknowledge and accept what's on the sign, or move on, cause arguing about a sign meaning or doing something different than it says is kind of pointless. High and low settings relate only to how the average guitar amplifiers high and low inputs work through their attenuating capacitance when receiving a hot input signal and a low input signal. On TH-U, a passive humbucker will be perceived to be attenuated to a certain level by the low setting as designated by the software modeling coding. The high input will be modeled to simulate a hotter signal based on the same analog reference. The same goes for single coils, the same goes for active circuit pickups, and passive pickups with a preamp in the chain. It doesn't do anything other than model as best as it can, how an amplifier responds to the level and impedence of the incoming guitar signal as well as the designated high or low input sensitivity setting in TH-U. It works as it should, at least as well as a digital copy can with today's tech.
@@FulcrumsEdge Nice mini-rant, except the setting does not represent how an amplifier responds to signals as suggested by them: "1) Low matches output level of single coils and 2) High matches the output of humbuckers." It doesn't work as it should, at all. Pick an amp modeling of an actual amp you own. In the sim plug in via single coils and set to "low", same for humbuckers set at "high", then compare to your physical amp of the "model". Not the same, not even close. There's your sign, that's the reality.
So, you can change the input level and save it for each preset? I thought you just set the input level for everything with the green section. I've been messing with the output which stays as a global setting. Being able to set the input level for each preset is great thing to know (unless I heard incorrectly). Can't wait to give it a try.
To get to the green zone I need to raise the input in my audio interface (Clarett 4Pre USB) to the point it clips in the instrument input, while my DAW (ableton) tells me I am reaching -4db, which is insane.
it shouldn't stay in the green, it should barely tap the green upon the largest point of the transient.... and that's when playing your guitar AS HARD AS YOU CAN. you should also probably turn your daws input and output level meters to represent rms and not peak levels. interfaces inputs LEDs will "clip" often, these lights on interface preamps are not accurate, are overly sensitive, and in general are not truly clipping when flashing intermittently at the peak of a strumming or picking transient. guitar transients are inherently spiky. the clipping lights are designed to respond to line level signals far better than their instrument level inputs and are not really good for as your basis for determining input level.
Why not just calibrate the presets for the typical -18dbu input level? That’s the most common calcination level for converters to equal 0db on a VU meter.
Absolutely agreed. The vid even states that they "tweak" the level of ALL presets and rigs before releasing them. I find this to be suspicious at best since they vary wildly in level, some packs even clipping into the chained virtual components BEFORE ever getting to the plugin's output stage. How many presets have you loaded up and the rig or cab sim into the downstream "rack" effect (like delay or reverb) within the preset gets the clipped warning light constantly....this is even with very low output PUPS. I digress a bit but tbh it's the first thing I do when I get another rig pack, I run through all of them, calibrate, and save the presets/banks so it's a non-issue later. Takes time but saves much of it later when you're in "creative" mode and don't need to be fooling with gain staging constantly during that time.
Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the product for years (once Rig Player came out it got placed back into my top 3 goto's), but there's some details that are frustrating at times for sure. Regards.
guitar amplifier gain stages do not work based input vu meters, vu meters are a representation of a decibel level, which is a theoretical premise based on our perception of loudness and analog clipping. Guitar amplifiers do not function based on this premise, or have their circuits built around this premise. our ears perceive amplifier gain through this premise.... TH-U does not model their software to replicate the way in which we decided to represent our ability to understand audible dynamics. they model their software to best apply the audio interfaces input gain stage (ie why the interface will generally have an input that processes a guitar level signal) to react accordingly so as to mimic the guitar amplifier input jack responding to a guitar signal. In order to model amplifiers to actually sound like amplifiers, each stage of the modelling must essentially be a like for like digital representation of the analog the components in an amplifier. vu metering is a mixing and mastering concept and is irrelevant to how any audio signal is processed by an any audio amplifier or audio processing unit.
Xtone is an audio interface which has not preamp level control for guitar input chanel even it is specialized for electric guitar.
So I could not adjust guitar input level on THU overloud with Xtone.
I felt huge sound difference from THU overloud Xtone(could not control guitar input level and Scrallet 3rd gen(available adjust guitar input level).
currently I want to use Xtone because it is all in one audio interface ( provide midi foot control switch).
Can you sudgget best way to use xtone with thu overloud?
Xtone input impedance is 1M ohm
Do what I did: Buy an AXE IO Solo.
how to check input level in ios version?
can this input level test be done on ipad or iphone version?
How do we set the input level on the iOS app? There is no way to calibrate it the way there is on the desktop app.
Thank you for that clarification.
Thank you! very useful!
Sorry, but I was expecting more knowledge from the potters themselves of the plugin. All the information given in this vid is wrong.
Setting the gain of the interface until "almost clip" the VU meter is wrong for guitar amp sims based on profiling (which is the case of the TH-U rig player).
These plugin is made using a reference value of input gain of +6dB (this info was given by Overloud themselves). The way of gain staging the interface to get the profiles working as the original amps that they profile is setting the input gain to the minimum and then applying a software boost (or cut) to match the reference value (guitar forums explain it, just search for input gain for guitar amp plugins).
It seems that Overloud doesn't know what they're taking about. Not a surprise, though, since their rig player is just a kemper profiles player (and I'm not going to ask how they programmed it).
Hmm, bear in mind that it's "wrong" for neural dsp plugins or NAM because they've specifically tailored their amp models to respond in a way that, on some usb audio interfaces you can put gain on 0. TH-U are telling you here that they don't do this. But, although they are claiming to tweak each pack before release it's likely they are like Amplitude 5 with the gain all over the place between different packs and amps. There's no specific gain setting on your interface or input gain in the plugin that will work for all the amps and cabs. So it's broken, but what they are saying here isn't wrong, it's their product that is broken so you have to set the input level so you don't clip yourself - possibly you'll need a different level for each amp model.
Note that setting input gain on zero etc is just one way of setting the input gain. It's not a 'correct way' or anything (what would be the point in an input gain knob that was always supposed to be on zero?). It was described in this way to make the instructions simple and so that the only dial you had to adjust was the input gain in the plugin (which on some other products you can set once for all their models based on your audio interfaces max input dbu value) - note too that many devices that act as a usb audio interface (e.g pod xt and other line 6 products) don't even have an input gain knob to adjust - you simply cannot set the guitar into the 'green' part at all using TH-U's interface.