Bryan Litz talks Ballistics, Berger Bullets, Rifle Shooting Facts and Myths
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- Full Story: bit.ly/2WV6KBX
While at the 2019 SHOT Show, the team at Berger bullets helped to arrange an interview with their Chief Ballistician, Bryan Litz who is also runs Applied Ballistics! We were joined by Chris Palka who runs the Applied Ballistics lab, and is also an accomplished long-range shooter! Thanks Bryan and Chris for the time to talk!
Video Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
2:31 Applied Ballistics (origins)
3:24 Ballistics fundamentals discussion
7:58 Unnecessary obsessions
12:45 Applied Ballistics Doppler and lab testing overview
14:50 Brian Litz's load development method
21:00 Discussion of rifle dynamics and affect on accuracy
25:03 Neck tension, critical or not?
25:27 Surprises from lab testing
27:13 Bryan apologizes for long interviews
27:20 Cartridge fill ratio and powder burn speed
28:57 Chamfering flash holes?
30:49 Why G1 BC data in this day and age?
32:36 ELR product development
33:18 375 ENABELR ELR cartridge development
34:39 2,680 yard shot wins match
35:51 Starting ELR: going mile shot and beyond
36:35 Ordering/building an ELR rile in 375 ENABELR
39:12 Periscopes on riflesscopes for ELR
40:42 Scope level as critical factor for ELR
41:43 Applied Ballistics Seminars overview
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bryan litz is the man!!!!I love the fact that he is a very successful person and still remembers the lil guys that don't have the money to go to classes and seminars. I have learned a lot from some of his free content from different sources and he is always humble in his way of translating his knowledge. all in one package is rare now days.. THANK YOU BRYAN FOR ALL YOU DO FOR THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY!
Where can we find his free content for “the lil guys that don’t have the money to go to classes and seminars?” All his books etc are so expensive. Way overpriced imho.
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I love Bryan Litz. He is a guy who not only knows just about everything there is to know theoretically but also knows exactly how to apply it practically; and is wise enough to realize that the practicality of something is really the only thing reason to know those things to begin with! Great interview, I wish there were 50 more of them with him.
This was a very high quality 45 minutes of content. I could listen to Bryan talk all day.
Absolutely brilliant! This is first time Ive heard someone acknowledge that finding the optimal powder charge weight isnt so important afterall!
This was a great interview man! I love long form conversations like this with people with a real knowledge of the sport and science. Very well done thanks for sharing!
Great breakdown and thank you for the quick time links that takes a bunch of time and super helpful.
Another great interview..thx
Lot's of good info in there. Thanks for a great interview!
Great video Gavin! Thanks!
45 minutes and it felt like 15! I want more!!! ;)
I was thinking the same thing when I was recording it :)
Great vid. Keep em coming.
Great interview
Awesome interview!!! Super interesting. 👍
What a get, Gavin. 45 minutes of Bryan f'ing Litz! This has to be the gold nugget of the whole show. Glad I subscribe. I have his books already and need to re-read all of them.
Great interview! This is some really good information! I would love to read his book sometime.
Keep up the good work!
Wow. Great video. Big thumbs up!
great interview gavin, thanks for doing that. As a newer shooter and reloader you can get overwhelmed by all the info out there what you should or shouldn't do.
Glad you liked it!
some really good points
Thanks for doing this Gavin - this was an excellent video with lots of good info from Bryan!
Thanks Ron, yes, truly a privilege to talk to them each time!
Really awesome
Video
That was the best video on tube I have ever watched. Thanks Gavin
Wow, thanks man! It was a privilege to talk with these guys, I had so much fun...
Gavin you did an awesome job with this interview!
Thanks!
This video was awesome
Good stuff!
The applied ballistics app is one of maybe 3 apps I've ever payed money for in my life and it's absolutely worth it.
CW Spencer what were the other two?
@@arnolddarkschner9010 Terreria and lexicomp
Revic is coming out with a standalone unit capabilities.
Attended the Spring Seminar at Snowbird a couple of years ago and it was the best. The after-seminar Q&A adds a ton of value to attending.
I love to see T-Rex and Litz together... probably blow more than a few brain cells listening to them talk.
BTW: specifics on what he was using in his relosding room at the time... FX-120i (lab scale) and the Auto-Trickler for throwing chsrges. I didn't ask about press becsuse I'm satisfied with my Lyman.
Good stuff
I attended the June 2018 Applied Ballistics seminar, Bryan said it best, I nerded out. I recommend it if you are planning on buying the books. Will probably attend in 2019.
I have been using the plumb bob method of setting up my scopes for 40 years, if there is anything in this world that is consistent, it is gravity. My grandfather taught me the method. I have found to get really close using levels, I use my caliper stem under the scope base and put a level on the stem, then one the mounting rail, not on the turret knob. The scope base is the zero base for all internal machining on the scope. You put a level on the knob, get it level, then turn the knob, it may or may not remain level. Just my experience.
Watched for second time. Great information.
Love to see you get familiar with the Charlie tarac and maybe a video on it and it’s uses
I neck turn my brass for highpower just so I don't get rings on the bullet from the seater stem. Before 1 of say 5 or 10 cases would seat really tight. I need the neck tension for magazine length loads. I got a good setup with the lathe and a good fixture so it's not really a chore. Turn about 50-75%, no noticable impact of accuracy
There was a diamond on each seat when they left ...love it!
What a great video from a humble (but well-informed) man! Humans often think that we’re not the problem - it is either the gun or the ammo. Everything but “me”. Amazing that the experts emphasise improving yourself first and foremost.
Correction, this is the best shot show video of the year!
Great discussion. I can relate with car racing where some people get really crazy about very fine details that in the end aren’t a valuable investment in time and money.
We took classes on long range shooting in the USMC, and used his book as our textbook
I learned more in this video than I have at a “Long Range” class.
I'm so interested in BTX system I'm amazed at what I saw
Hi, thankyou for this video.
FWIW, I purchased Bryan's book, Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting, after watching this.
Interesting observations..... great job Gavin!
Gavin, thanks for sharing this interview. It was enlightening to hear these two talk about things that matter in reloading vs things that didn't bring results. I heard Litz say he uses quality components, like Lapua brass and berger bullets, but what dies does he use? What size primers? Why? Does he believe annealing is effective for better accuracy? I've had mixed results from from annealing. I've received the best accuracy from a set of Lee dies with .3 MOA group using a TC Compass. I'm wondering if investing in a set of match dies that use resizing bushings and vld seating stems will produce better results? Thanks again for all your work!
Awesome interview!!!! WE ARE!!
PENN STATE!!! LOL My Favorite University and in my home state!
Mine too!! I’m from 15 minutes east of the university!!!
Great video Gavin !
Being anal about reloading can be a waste of time . I use to live near a gunrange and shot A LOT - then moved 30 miles away and shooting time dropped way off . Thought I had gun/ammo problems but it was my shooting not the equipment . I actually chased my tail for a year tinkering with everything doing even less shooting . Glad to hear Bryan touch on that .
Congrats to Chris on winning the ELR match , wow 2760 yards .
2680 yds😊
Every handloader should watch this
I love how he compared a rifle to a music instrument. I witnessed the exact results when watching a state champion Duck caller make a $20 call sound like an acrylic.
Bryan is a Penn Stater? Me too! I knew I liked that guy!
saw the charlie taric with trex a few yrs ago
I've read his books. He's awesome. Learned an AWFUL lot!
Berger bullets readily available, hah! Funny man! ;P
I've never had any problem getting them in my area.
@@heathboeddeker5401
That's because they lag woefully behind Nosler, Barnes, and Hornady in popularity, even during pandemic buying.
It would be nice to find some Berger bullets in the wild.
Great videos! One critique would be to include the other guy (whoever he is) a bit more :)
Hi Gavin, 8:20 pm in the uk
Welcome David!
Im curious to know how they come up with the weight of bullets in grains for specific cartridges. Such as a 58g .243, or 87g .243, or 103g .243? What determines that weight and how do they figure it?
Gavin, you are an Enabler! Now I want a 375 CheyTac! This channel is going to cause me to become bankrupt.
:)
Started watching this while making a pot of coffee this morning, 46 minutes later still haven't had a cup and wondering how this video voodoo happened,
Interview feels like 10-15 minutes, look at clock, realized 46ish minutes have actually passed, also not sure at what point I pulled my rifle out of the safe and began wiping it down.
I went full zombie nerd this morning
Awesome- glad you "got into it" - I had the same feeling while I was talking with Bryan :)
When you do the 100 yard tall target test, is the range to target measured from the objective lens or muzzle end?
Don't waste your time worrying about such a small error. Even with a 26" barrel the difference is only .07%. The old saying of people spend 90% of their time worrying about the 10% that doesn't really matter comes to mind.
They may have made a bad assumption about lighter bullets having less recoil. It may be true in rifles, but in USPSA everyone has known for years that a heavier pistol bullet has less recoil at similar momentums (mass x velocity = power factor in the sport.) Most people don't know why, and it initially seems counterintuitive, but the reason is that powder has mass and velocity as well! I don't know how to measure/calculate the gas velocity, but I read it is somewhere along the lines of 4X bullet velocity. In other words; one grain of powder has 4X the effect of one grain of bullet weight. A lighter bullet is smaller, easier to accelerate and more powder can be used before reaching the maximum specified pressure. It was years ago, but when I ran the numbers it confirmed why felt recoil was greater with lighter bullets in pistols. 4X gas velocity could be bunk, but it seems reasonable since powder must provide more than enough pressure to move the bullet. Rifle could be totally different because the powder to bullet weight ratio is significantly greater, but it seems like bullet weight might have even less of an effect on recoil. I'm not sure, but I don't think I feel a difference in recoil between a 55 grain and 77 grain bullet.
When your ballistician is essentially a rocket scientist.
"Will be readily available", I raise you one case of the coof
For the Glory...............................BSCE '69
Does Berger make all the ammo for 6.5 creed all the some for the public sale ......
This confirms a lot about handloading idiosyncrasies, versus actual scientific variant capabilities when developing a reliable and effective load. Competition dudes may need to go through all of those mental and physical gymnastics developing a load; God bless 'em.
For the average Joe DeerTag like me however, we want to know two things about the finished product:
1. When I pull the trigger, will it go BANG!?
2. Based on my familiarity and practice with the rifle and cartridge configuration, can I expect to deliver a lethal hit on the deer, pronghorn, elk, or other game animal clearly visible in the crosshairs of my scope?
In both cases, the answer over the past thirty years I have been handloading for all of the rifles in my collection, has been "Yes!"
Let me get this straight.. he is saying find max load back off 1gr and start with moving seating depths say in a b14 HMR 300 prc?
I think he said to back off 1.5 to 2 grains.
Wat book r they talking about that they keep referencing to
sounds like Cortina's philosophy
From a complete dummy. I watch your channel every time you post and am a subscriber. With that said can you reload pistol and rifle cartridges with the same equipment but different dies?
Yes for sure you can!
Thanks for answering my question. I don't know anyone who reloads so THANKS again.
Where does one actually turn to learn to become a better marksman?
I feel like such a ditz. I had assumed from the quantity and quality of Brian's product that he was on the verge of retirement, and I was sweating it. Plz congratulate him on his android app, "Shooter."
This interview is like an article in a scientific journal in that I'm going to have to watch it more than once.
If you would, please ask Brian how Walt is doing. I'd also like a list of Brian's publications. If you would, you can announce the answers here and pin it to the top. Either way thanks for the great interview.
Gavin, chamber reamers - Pacific Tool and Gauge for all you gunsmithing needs.
Too many people blamed their equipment for their own shortcomings. Great shooters have good equipment but they shoot, a lot, and understand and think about what they are doing.
Did Bryan say that powder charge wasn't important?
I ask because Erik Corrina and many others use a $4000 Prometheus to charge there brass.
The difference is initial charge and consistant charge, Brian stated he was very particular in weighing powder. Brian said (initial) powder charge was not as important with large heavy barrels on large heavy guns, due to less harmonics. One has to listen in detail to what is said. You have to listen to what is said, not interpret what you think he said.
@@6handicap604 initial powder charge please explain that if you can? And consistent if you can?
@@lynndragoman1573 Brian stated he found his initial powder charge for reloading just below pressure signs. He did not say with the satterly method or ocw testing. He then tuned that initial charge. Most of us, myself included, tweak that charge through testing for smaller groups, in .1 grain powder increments, or I change the initial charge to a final charge, then continue to tune with neck tension and seating depth. Consistant, means the same every time, as in accurate weighing of powder. Most competition reloader's use very accurate scales. Most reloade'rs do not, they use the fastest scales. Say your scale measures + - .2. grains. Seems fairly accurate. But that is actually a .4 grain window, remember the + -. Get your reloading book and look up the data for your caliber. For 6 BR 26 grains of Varget results in 2367 FPS (average) 29 grains results in 2620 fps(average). That is a difference of 253 fps over a 3 grain difference. Divide by 30, that is 30 .1 grain increments, which equals 3 grains. That results in 8.43 fps per .1 grain of powder difference. If your scale has a .2 + -- accuracy, or a .4 window rating, that means .4 grains equals 33.72 fps window of accuracy in FPS. That is the best you can rely on, it MAY be less, but it MAY not be. Everyone wants a low ES or SD. My question is this, if you want a low ES how can you get there with a scale that only provides a 33 fps average accuracy window in FPS? The scale I use for powder measurement goes to 0.0000. When I measure powder, I can get within a .002 window of accuracy or consistent powder charge. That is within one kernel of Varget, I do not split kermels, although I know of people who do so. It is not fast, but it is accurate and consistent powder measurement. I do not think I can overcome inconsistent powder measurement using neck tension and seating depth Just my take on it.
@@6handicap604 I shot competitive Benchrest at 600/1000 yards for years so I have a handle on what works.
I just couldn't believe what I was hearing especially when he added in barrel profile.
Bryan is spot on. For the most part, reloaders are basing their reloading process on superstitions and myths which make no statistically significant difference in group size. They also perform "experiments" which don't have enough samples to tell them either way if the change they observe is statistically meaningful or not. As an Engineer, I am embarrassed to say that I followed the same nonsense when I started handloading. Eventually I started questioning if the standard practice in handloading/load development made any sense and came to the conclusion that most of it is a complete waste of time/pseudo-science. For instance, lots of people shoot 3 or 5 shot groups with the powder charge for each group increasing in 0.3 grain increments. A single 3 or 5 shot group is statistically meaningless and you can't say with any certainty if one powder charge is better than the other. I also suspect that most of the hand-waving explanations for how load development is supposed to reduce group size are complete bunk.
I say just pick a reasonable powder charge for a given bullet and see how well that bullet/powder/primer/brass combination shoots. If it shoots poorly, switch your components up. Everything else is just spinning your wheels/rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
I want to get into reloading, even bought a reloading kit, manual, and a set of dies. Problem is I have no place to set it up and get reloading! I would have set up in the basement, but my nephew, his wife, 2 kids and cat moved in along with most of their stuff. I would have set up in the garage, but again no room. My nephew took that over too, plus it is not heated. I would set it up in the shed, but there is no room and no electricity for lighting! I was tempted to set it up in my bedroom, but my mom would kill me (yes, I live with my parents) and there is no room either! I might build a portable bench and set up outside on the deck or in the garage when the weather is nicer until I can get a more permanent place to set up. But I have to wait to do that, because my TV died and I have to get a new TV! lol
Great Video, Wish it was longer!!
Good luck- you know, you're inspiring me for a story: setting up for reloading in a small space! I think that could be interesting to a lot of people...
Start with a list of every reloading component that you want. Use a Wish list, like on Midsouth Shooters Supply, Midway USA or Amazon.
What reloading press? what dies? what powder measure? Are you going to wet or dry tumble the brass?
This will take time and you will see your opinions change over time. Best to get it right the first time. It's what I do all the time with big purchases.
After months of researching your housing situation may change.
Sounds like you've got more immediate problems to solve than where to setup a handloading station. Hope they're resolved by now.
Can you fix your audio, please?
👍👍👍👍👍
Too bad the interviewer couldn't offer individual microphone's.
Bryan essentially says it's not your guns fault it's not your bullets fault it's the trigger man who is to blame. Lol
I'd say he's right. If it's 1/2 moa or 1 moa that's a small factor if you or the wind is causing the point of impact to shift by a foot 😉 That said start with decent great and good components then practice the right way (a mentor helps) a lot.
pre-video - looking at a 45+ min long: oh no, I don't know about this.
post-video: please don't stop talking!
14 dislikes are hornady employees
ultimate reloader but maybe not ultimate interviewer... could you get multiple microphones? GREAT content but I feel like we lost the back and forth of conversation because the mediator controlled the mic... literally.
shorter, fatter structured barrels
Wow, great unformation