Chad Hedges - Thanks for the gracious comment, but I've sat in on honorary degrees being bestowed - it takes quite a bit more to get one of those...like donating lots of money - that I would much rather spend on shooting and reloading. Best to ya, FC
hey Mr Fortune Cookie...... This is elvis ammo coming to you from the hot Zinc zone! : ) : ) ...Thanks for all the valuable information and considerations for all these different metals. This helps up put some things in perspective... I watched the video twice so far! If learning is a process than that's the only way we learn. You did a jam up job putting the info togerther.... Ok..... now, i'm going to make a cannon !!! : ) : ) thanks my friend!
All very interesting, and for a person living in California a very important quest! I have also looked into several substitute metals for bullet casting, and think that one very good alloy would be Babbitt, this is easily available and in various alloys for the various bearings that are cast from it, give it a try.
Mr FC45LC, there is one other interesting fact about Bismuth is that unlike other metals that shrink as it cools, Bismuth expands as it cools. if you ever reload with it you would have to compensate and drop the castings before they cool too much or they would stick in your mold and be a devil to resize. it can be alloyed with Tin, lead and others which also brings the melting point down even lower and controls the expansion some. the old magicians trick of melting an apparent silver spoon in a cup of coffee was actually a lead,Cadmium, Tin, and Bismuth alloy with a melting point around 200F.
Artillery shells are steel. But they have copper, brass, or bronze rings crimped in grooves to engage the rifling. Or use a swagged copper cup with an undersized steel or other hard metal projectile inside.
Yep, the copper driving bands are what engages the rifling. The US Navy discovered in the 80s or so that for the 16" Iowa class main battery that wrapping the power bags in a plastic material and including a bag of lubricating compound reduced the barrel wear lifetime from ~300 shots to undetectable under normal use. :) If only we knew that in WW2.
Thanks Fortune Cookie. I like what you did. Just an FYI, there's a guy making bullets with a lead top and a zinc base (similar to the old zinc washer molds) (sorry, don't recall his name right now), and if I deciphered what he said, he's implying that once the gun is "shot in" with his bullets, that there's very little wear on the rifling. Sounds like the bullets are essentially firelapping the barrel and leaving a micro-coat of zinc plating. I say this because he implied that any barrel of rifle length needed twice as thick a zinc base as otherwise. If there's any basis for his claims, it makes this zinc experimentation even more important. Like I said, don't recall his name, but followed a link provided by a commenter to one of the channels I frequent. He should be findable again.
Great videos and information. I have learned soooo much from you and Elvis Ammo too. My biggest take away is the power coating. I have found if properly powder coated and sized the material and hardness of a bullet is secondary. I reload and shoot handgun rounds using data for jacketed bullets. Good for accuracy and velocities that I need.
elvis - always great when you drop by. Don't know if you've loaded up the zinc ammo yet. So I was thinking about your zinc bullets - they should shoot for you, but impact will be off from your current zero, probably low. Bullets with soft steel core are very plentiful, but your zinc bullets oversize will be bad because of the zinc hardness, barrel resistance and higher pressure - danger of your gun blowing up. But I know you will be safe in all you do and you have thought of all this anyway...still mighty courageous as no one is paying you or financing you in this... Best to ya, FC Steve
Lead is really the best there are a few sensible precautions but if a little particles are not going straight up your nose and you’re not sucking on your thumb while you’re casting bullets it’s perfectly safe and on top of that now we have these nice coatings that will survive going on the barrel and along with that helped prevent fowling and even keep lead out of the meat of animals we may shoot.
If you start shooting a lot of zinc at the range it will become a huge nuisance for people that scavenge lead bullets to recycle for reloading. I can't forsee doing a hardness test on each bullet coming out of the range backstop (which is a sand pile for most of us. It is bad enough a lot of wheelweights are now made from zinc.
I have a bench- top injection molder, and have wanted to try tungsten polymer (plastic with tungsten powder within). I think I could use a Lee Mold to get pretty good results. Not for the average reloader, but worth looking at as an alternative.
For every new mold I buy, I cast a bunch of bullets/buckshot/slugs in Pewter for handling while inspecting and trial fitting before casting for shooting. Especially for trying new slug/buckshot/wad combinations.
Did you know a single layer leather wrapped around your led pot pour handle makes it always cool to touch? Add it to your mold handles and there will be no hot spot for your fingers. I super glued it on and it is staying solidly in place for many a pour.
I'm sure it hasn't been an issue but just a heads up super glue gives off toxic vapors when it is heated if your eyes start to sting increase your ventilation.
@@JoeBLOWFHB Thanks but I melt lead outside due to the toxins from the lead and the smoke from fluxing. By the way thanks for that but it has never been a problem.
That was a very good video Fortune Cookie. you explain things well and are very precise. I wonder if powder coating would be tough enough to hold rifling by itself. perhaps one could cast zinc projectiles undersized enough to limit barrel wear and make up the difference with powder coating. I too have been wondering about alternatives should the supply of lead be compromised. keep up the videos I really enjoy them.
Archersfriend - You've got it...broken titanium and broken shaft as well...Thanks for the great comment, and for staying in the moment...Best Regards, FC
Bob Hartman - Thanks, Bob - Casting zinc bullets is a bit courageous on Elvis' part - he could have ruined a good mold - and now comes the loading and shooting of those bullets... Have a very fine day, FC
Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this, but density is expressed as “grams per cubic centimeter”... Also, the video seems to be a listing of possible substitutes for lead, but doesn’t have a conclusion in the form of descending preferences. Lead > Bismuth > Zinc etc. Also one could consider home brew copper jackets over the harder metals. Otherwise, this is certainly an eye-opening video, something I’d never considered. Thank you!
I visited Elvis's channel this morning over Coffee. I seen what he was trying to achieve with zinc, And it's a doable thing. He was saying that his 155 gr bullets were weighing out at 95 gr when Made with Zinc, well here something out of the Box.. What if you were cast .358 150-160 gr bullets out of Zinc.. Those bullets would weigh in @about the same. Load those with starting loads to the Mid in the .38 special or the .357 Magnum.. I would think that the Barring surface would give good accuracy. and the reduction of weight would accommodate Higher velocity. (Now... This was Just an Idea and Not a recommendation for someone to try) Safety and damage is something anyone out there would assume all on their own.. Dave.
Thorsaxe777 the only thing is all that bearing surface being hard zinc instead of soft lead would raise pressures all else being equal. so if that means u cant use as much powder to keep pressure down you might not come out ahead in a speed race
Jake,, Absolutely. Like I was saying, It's something that got the wheels turning.. If someone out there was to experiment with it, They and They alone would be assuming all the liability for damage and Injury. Differently for someone who does his / her Homework. and Has been reloading for quite a while. any advice on the way of safety is welcome Jake. Dave.
gounds28 - No, but teaching is an extremely honorable profession...and not recognized enough. Mike Ditka once said "In life, we either teach or we are taught..." Best Regards to ya, FC
They are made of certain copper alloys, a field of metalurgy that is still under a lot of development. The various alloys and inputs are still being perfected, and such mixing is almost out of the hands of the standard caster. Keep in mind the temperature differences, and then think of the casting blocks we use, and the materials. Copper melts at very high temperatures vs. lead's very low temperatures. Do we have the proper molds made of the proper materials? Do we have the correct furnaces to melt copper and make proper copper alloys? Are the kinds of furnaces needed safe, practical? Will the shrinkage of the molten material in the molds require different molds with different internal dimensions to compensate for shrinkage? Thinking of zinc, I know people who do a bit of metal casting with brass, and tell me that zinc boils off of brass, and is very dangerous and toxic. Depending on how you do it, it could be very dangerous.
toy collector I don't know about all copper bullets, but many of them are milled from billet stock and not cast (Lehigh for one) . That's why they are so expensive.
Density units g/cm3 . Good video again. Bismuth is also the least toxic of heavy metals. However, this would shatter upon impact, so alloying would be needed.
I bet those Zinc bullets are going to be a pain to size for starters,heat treated WW bullets are pretty darn hard to size on there own when their in the high 20+ BHN. Secondly,Zinc bullets are much lighter than the same bullet cast from a Lead based alloy probably around 30 percent on average. The weight differ is very important especially in cast rifle loads. With a given twist rate bore you can only drive a given bullet to a certain velocity before the RPM threshold is met,once you pass that RPM threshold the bullet becomes unstable. The only way to gain velocity and keep the RPM threshold in check is to go to a slower twist bore. Otherwise using the lighter Zinc bullet is more than likely going to translate into a lower velocity load using the same bullet cast from Zinc. Going to have to go check that video out an see what he's up to.
Reloader 7sixtwo the "rpm threshold" is for lead bullets because of it being weaker than jacketed bullets in the barrel. jacketed bullets copper bullets or even zinc are all harder so this dosent apply, otherwise there is no rpm limit unless centrifugal force explodes the bullet mid flight, which takes insane rpm's
The rpm threshold can be applied to all bullet types,the lathe turned style of bullets being made from all copper or brass are the least affected by the centrifuge forces applied to the bullet by the rifles twist as far as the ability to withstand those forces. If we are just talking bullet construction,even seemingly perfectly made copper cup lead core bullets come apart at some point if the V/RPM threshold exceeds the bullets design. However the BHN / hardness of the zinc bullets are not the issues here,it's the fact that they are cast an as hard as we may try,a cast bullet is not perfect. Small imperfection unseen by the human eye changes the balance of the bullet. The higher the RPM imparted to the bullet regardless of how hard it is accentuates those defects and at some point accuracy goes south. It's pretty easy to demonstrate the velocity /RPM / accuracy differences between two rifles of the same caliber with different twist bores using an identical cast lead bullet. It's fairly easy to cast a bullet that will withstand 30-06 factory velocity in the 2700 fps range,I have friends that do it but the rifles have 1:14 twist bores,put that identical load in modern 06 rifle with a 1:10 twist bore and you velocity/RPM threshold drops down to around the 2K fps. range. The bullet/load used is no different but the difference in twist rates which as velocity increases so does the RPM's have a dramatic affect on the bullets stability due to those imperfections. It's really all academic till you load up some and shoot them.
Let's also look at things from the opposite end; the slow end, instead of maximum fast end. If the rifle twist is too slow, heavy long bullets won't stabilize at lower velocities, or at some point, don't really stabilize at all! Read up on why the .243 Winchester succeeded while the 244 6mm failed, and it was because the 243's original rifle twist could stabilize 100 grain bullets. So, bullet integrity isn't the main issue, you can only do so much with a barrel twist with any bullet within a certain velocity without totally destroying its potential. I can shoot 170 grain cast bullets from my 6.5mm Swede Mauser in my original 1-7.5 inch twist barrel, at a low 1,150 fps and get good accuracy with a very slow, heavy plinker. Try that with a 1-10 twist, 1-12, 1-14, ect. Sometimes the problem with some bullets is not enough velocity for twist, not worrying about the bullet exploding on you.
No mention of Pewter, or Tin? I cast sample and test bullets in Pewter so I'm not handling lead while working up a cartridge, or test fitting , but I have not shot them yet. They melt in my lead pot easily enough and I'm sure they would shoot fine.
Sabot rounds is where we're heading, imo. A 243 could be firing 223 maybe? Make the projectiles out any material you want, well within reason of course. Once lead is either banned or becomes too expensive, sabot has to be the way to go..... Hey, hang on a minute...... Is this the topic for a new video???? Just a thought :)
Pilot McBride You could be on to something. TwangNBang has a video shooting 45 caliber solid copper projectiles through 50 caliber muzzle loaders using sabots. I also seem to recall a very rare bullet, I think made by Remington, that was a 223 in a sabot fired from 308 Winchester cartridges.
I come back to this video and I wonder if firearms manufacturers were to possibly change the barrels to be able to withstand zink maybe we would have better luck with zink since firearms have been made they have been designed to fire lead then copper jacked lead so if a redesigned firearm were to be considered maybe that would help
I sometimes cast lee C309 200 1R bullets from straight magnum shot. They shoot good from my 303 savage with reloader 7 powder. I got a crazy amount of magnum shot for free. It actually makes pretty good lever gun bullets. I tumble lube them and size them to .309
Thank you for this video FortuneCookie, good to know that Zink is out of question due to hardness that would soon smoothen our rifling. However, what do you think about melting the brass cases into bullets which would then be copper bullets? Or would you add on some other metal to further soften the alloy and make it more shootable ? Cheers
Zinc is still alot softer then steel so it shouldn't wear out rifling although I have heard that it fouls barrels really fast so if we could find a cheap zamak alloy that doesn't foul barrels as bad as zinc we should be golden
Would you not need to consider the interaction between the metals? Galvanized iron is actually pitted or eaten away by the zinc with then infiltrates those pores, which is why it so tenaciously clings to the surface. Any time a material is driven down the bore of a gun at supersonic speeds, a certain amount will be vaporized, hence the copper and lead fouling of the barrel. Would not then zinc would likely pit the barrel as the fouling lines the interior of the barrel?
dale meade - It's courageous for Elvis Ammo to do all this for our edification...He risks his casting pot, reloading dies, and his gun barrel with those zinc bullets. And no one is giving him any grants to do the testing. Zinc bullets are really uncharted territory - it may be possible that research has been done by countries looking for bullet material alternatives (especially in times of war where strategic materials are in short supply) - if so, the fact that zinc bullets are not widely distributed today is a testament to the material not being suitable. Thanks for bringing out this point of fact... Best to ya, FC
I've only ever seen silver casted in sand for making jewelry. I'm not sure mold blocks would work. Then the problem is cost. Right now, one ounce is $17+($272+ a pound). Although, silver bullets would come in handy for werewolves.
PsychoAlfaSchizo - Right you are on the molds - if I did this, I'd start with a two cavity Lee mold to try, if it destroyed the mold, I wouldn't be out much - Elvis used his Arsenal molds, and I cringed a bit...expensive mold. Hard to get those high melting point metals to cast because our molds have to get real hot for them to fill. Elvis had trouble with zinc and that doesn't even melt as high as other metals. Silver is too expensive to cast bullets with, but essential for vampires and werewolves as we have been told. Don't know if I'd advise using iron molds to cast silver - would be afraid to silver solder the blocks together... Best to ya, FC
Now for a little cold water on the subject.Almost nobody except some pistol shooters,which I assume you are(45long colt)shoots a solid bullet anymore.Would some of these metals work instead of lead in a cup and core rifle bullet?And what of chemical or heat infusion in bullet of this type.Would they counter act against each other?Then there is the bonded bullets.Would anything bond as well as lead to copper.Copper jackets would certainly take care of rifling wear with any core metal.So where do we go for the next step.
Hi, thanks. Question. Post shtf; yes lead is available but I cannot afford the health consequences, but a conservative 10 generations of aluminum is available,... I am talking airguns, primarily breakbarrel,... What are your thoughts?? 10 generations is alot of material just laying there,...I have to use it. So how is best. Perhaps order the rifle in smooth bore and caste balls is easiest. Accuracy needs to be tested. Alternative is casting the second heaviest metal (balls) within the aluminum for more fpe and accuracy. I am just a newb but shtf waits for no man, what are your thoughts?? Cheers and thanks.
Sir, thank you for the very fine video! I've been thinking in casting a 90-5-5 alloy (lead, antimony and tin). Do you recomend water quenching and heat treating it? What is a good source of knowledge (books, magazines...) about hea treating lead alloys? Thank you very much!
emmeponto - Why, that thar alloy is Lyman #2 pardnah...!! You can't go wrong casting cast bullets with Lyman #2. You can read about heat treating cast bullet alloys from The Los Angeles Silhouette Club and also from CastBoolits. However, you must remember that cast bullets have been shot since the round ball days, and heat treating the bullets has been relatively recent. My own view is that cast bullets can easily and ful satisfaction be used in 95% of our shooting without any heat treatment (oven baking bullets at a certain temperature - alloys need to have small amounts of arsenic to heat treat well - and quenching). With the technology of powder coating, the need to heat treat is even less desirable than before. I can cast 45 ACP bullets out of plain range scrap for zero cost, quench them, and powder coat them for well less than a penny a bullet and shoot up a storm in my ACP and 45 Colt / 45 Schofields. And if I start thinking about heat treating for rifle bullets, it's simply time to use jacketed bullets - That solution was made by the armies of the world back in 1900 and that still goes today.... Best to ya, Steve
In regards to smoothbore 12-gauge shotguns: Slugs, 00 shot, and 000 shot cast from zinc instead of lead would be safe to shoot from a smoothbore barrel. Is thus correct? Are Slugs, 00 shot and 000 shot that are cast from zinc soft enough to accurately clear a smoothbore barrel with a modified choke tube (like ammo cast from lead does)?
Screaming Eagle - Hooray for the 101st Airborne..!! Happy 4th..!! This video was for information and fun only...since we aren't going to be using all those other metals... Best to ya, FC Steve
Hey FC would using silver solder 95/5 or any solder containing silver help or hurt in bullet casting? From what I read it will help in hardness, but would it ruin the rifling? Can you possibly make a video showing how to use solder properly when casting bullets and show the benefits/problems with the process.
Mac- I have some natural gas engine main gets that weigh over a pound each. I want to try this. Have you done some casting? What molds are you using? What sizing method do you use? Thanks for the info.
bismuth for fire extinguishers? why would they want the fire to get so big that the ceiling is 500 degrees before water sprays. they could use one of those chamber castings type alloys with a melting point of 180 or so. then the fire might get put out before the buildings ruined.
because in places like commercial kitchens there are open flames, steam, hot oil, etc. that get well over 250 degF that would set sprinklers off. IT is basically a safety factor to ensure that the sprinklers only go off in the event of a larger fire.
Powdered metal mixes in polymer or epoxy would make cheaper ammo. Extruded into a mould would be so easy, the polymer would also allow the bullet to slip down the barrel. Scrap metal powdered and mixed with polymer ammo could be heated in your Black and Decker toaster oven.
Sounds like an idea similar to BPI's ITX non toxic shotgun shot. Various metal elements make up the weight in the shot, while a binder keeps it relatively soft to keep it from damaging the barrel by scratching and chokes from bursting from pressure. The real question is wither it would work for regular bullets, which have to maintain a certain shape and integrity, especially as it is is being driven against a bore that is smaller than the bullet's diameter, at high velocity, high pressure, and high heat from burning gases. Lead and lead alloys can swage to the barrel, which is good, and the powdered mix, I don't know. Also, it would probably suffer on the terminal ballistics end for hunting and self defense, it would probably hold together or burst apart, both of which are not usually desired. But, a very interesting observation.
kingduckford - Sounds like some possibilities there though - composite bullets... materials science will enable this if it comes to that... Best to ya, FC
I cast my "lead" bullets with lead zinc alloy. Some WW are zinc others are lead and they melt together. So I get allways a high percentage of zinc in my bullets. They wrinkle more but work. According to this Mohs hardnes table Zinc isnt way harder than lead. www.jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/.Lead is 1.5 Moh, Zinc is 2.5 Moh, Copper (like copper jacket or bullets) is 3 Moh, Iron is 4.5 Moh, Brass is 3 Moh, Bronce is 3 Moh, Silver is max 3 Moh and Gold is max 3 Moh as well. So, IMHO, Copper bullets or copper jackets are more Barrel wearing than Zinc. So Zinc is even safer to use than any FMJ bullet from the factory.Wikipedia confirm These Moh hardnes here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardnesses_of_the_elements_(data_page).So that might not be very true that Zinc wears the Barrel out as you suggest - at least less than any copper bullet or Copper FMJ.
Metallurgy is WAY more complex than comparing Mohs scale chart off wikipedia, especially when dealing with a metal alloy that is to be subjected to extreme pressure, shock, and temperature. For starters the Moh scale is used to measure rocks, and its comparative in nature (this scratches that, but not this other thing) whereas the Brinell scale is often used for metals and alloys because it measures how much of a controlled impact deforms various materials. However, that also doesn't help when it comes into factors that are critical in internal and external ballistics. Not to beat a dead horse, but when that same wikipedia page told you that Gold is just as hard as Zinc that should have been a red flag.
Johan Alfredsson - Tin can indeed be used to cast bullets as the melting point is somewhere around 450 degrees F (lead melts at 621 F). Also, the density of tin is very similar to that of iron to it is heavy enough for bullets. However, the one drawback of tin is the cost - about $16 a pound. Cost to cast 1 bullet would be around 50 cents. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC can you add some pewter in with the lead , to get more percentage up on the tin content? Tks. Joseph Phelps. PS. Just learning to cast.
Why no one uses shells shaped like APFSDS for a tank in a shotgun ? Meaning a shotgun is a smooth bore like a tank barrel. To increase accuracy and penetration a tank uses APFSDS rounds which use a sabot to guide and accelerate. So why not apply the same principle to shotgun rounds for the same purpose ? This could even penetrate bulled proof vests.
One way to get around the Zinc hardness problem would be to cast the bullets undersized and paper patch them so the Zinc never comes in contact with the bore.
M - Actually, it has been determined that gold would make fine bullets with one problem - the cost. Gold fouling could be controlled with the right hardnss of gold alloy and proper lubrication. Silver can be used, but it is not the best because of light density and cost also.
@@FortuneCookie45LC Yeah i bet it has. It seemingly has the right properties. Silver may also be abit to hard/brittle? Thanks for taking time to reply!
Why not mix metal alloys dust for weight with polymer for forming ? I am thinking it would be factory made into granuals like reloading powders. Then you would measure out the bullet weight you wanted. Finally bake them in a muffin tin like bullet mold to cast them. Set your oven timer and watch reloading videos while you bake some bullets.
rustybayonet .com and i dont think it will. but zinc is. about 150 degrees higher melting point. lead is 621 zinc at 787 degrees. so a little attentiveness to the cast iron pot while making ingots will allow us to get the zinc out before it melts
Pure lead melts right at 622 degree F,while Zinc Melts right at 788 degrees F. Zinc is one of those thing I have to watch for when melting raw wheel weight. It's not really had to keep the two apart in the same pot if you use a lead thermometer an watch your temps. If I accidentally get one in the mix the Zinc weights float on the top just like the steel clips an are easily skimmed off.
Reloader 7sixtwo: 166 degrees seems like a small window for error but I have been wrong before. Guess I should add a laser thermometer to my reloading setup. I can not remember where I read it but I believe that there are some ammunition companies also using zinc in their bullets instead of lead.
Back when I started melting WW's 30 years ago zinc wasn't a problem but it's been gradually showing up more and more so I always use a lead thermometer to gradually work my melting pot temp up,haven't messed up a batch of lead yet. About a month ago I sorted three five gallon buckets of WW's I got for free and only lost about a gallon paint can from the haul to zinc and steel weights. That will net me a couple hundred lbs. of good WW alloy to add to the stash.
Reloader 7sixtwo i wish i could get wheel weights, all my local places refuse a dollar a pound. i think most shops have contracts to where the lead goes. i end up buying 55lb lead bars online.
Jake A I hate that for you it's really about the same here these day at least with the chain tire stores. The small Mom & Pop tire places in the outlying areas are usually your best bets as the recyclers don't bother them much. They usually buy the standard WW's a well as there much cheaper than steel or zinc,scrap yards or recycles centers,Radiology Dept. at local Hospitals or Contractors that do renovations on old building are also a good sources to check out as well as local ranges in an outdoors. It takes some leg work as well as putting out the word to friends and family members that you looking for lead work as well. Good luck hope you hit a lead mine at some along the way. Being that I don't shoot a public ranges due to distance or local ranges due to the high cost of membership I shoot at a friends house where we can collect and recycle cast as well as jacketed bullet from our berm.
Big Gee - If you mix to get BHN 15 - 18, you can shoot any of your full house 44, 41 and 357 magnums with cast bullets and they will shoot to satisfaction...powder coating is another option to allow us to get magnum velocities to 1900 fps clean and accurate shooting. And good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Looks as if the only way would be through precision temperature control not exceeding zincs melting point but the two metals melt points are too close for comfort on a pot with most heating sources.
I need to spend a day driving around on a wheel weight run if I can't get them for free twenty dollar bill goes a long way for the guys in the service bays actually changing tires. Management always says no LOL
Unlucky Eddy completely depends how powerful the load is. fastest i had a case go bad is 5 firings or so for 22-250 with cases that never been annealed, the neck split. on the other end people been making lots of 38 wad cutters with the same cases for decades.
Is there a way to sneak zinc into a non-lead alloy to soften the material for muzzleloading revolvers? Reason I ask is because lead is becoming super difficult to get where I live and my most used weapons are muzzleloading guns.
Stiggy's Nerd Cave I will post some pictures when I get too do it, been raining here for days,, i would really love for it to work because I have about 600 lbs if zinc wheel weights.
I hope your zinc slugs work out for you iv been cast zinc pistol bullets for the last two year and they don’t hurt your barrel at all don’t let F/C you scare you
FortuneCookie45LC he's a cool dude. made a ton of money off of selling a bottle that has no use as a container. sounds pretty smart to me. haha it was just an observation.
I think we should all gave FC45LC a honorary PHD in Metallurgy ... He is the man. Thanks for all the great videos FC45LC
Chad Hedges - Thanks for the gracious comment, but I've sat in on honorary degrees being bestowed - it takes quite a bit more to get one of those...like donating lots of money - that I would much rather spend on shooting and reloading. Best to ya, FC
hey Mr Fortune Cookie...... This is elvis ammo coming to you from the hot Zinc zone! : ) : ) ...Thanks for all the valuable information and considerations for all these different metals. This helps up put some things in perspective... I watched the video twice so far! If learning is a process than that's the only way we learn. You did a jam up job putting the info togerther....
Ok..... now, i'm going to make a cannon !!! : ) : ) thanks my friend!
elvis ammo - Elvis, thanks to you, we know that we can melt some zinc for bullets in a pinch...Have a great day, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC sir you are a very wise man..and ty for the great videos 👍
Thanks to both of you
instaBlaster...
All very interesting, and for a person living in California a very important quest! I have also looked into several substitute metals for bullet casting, and think that one very good alloy would be Babbitt, this is easily available and in various alloys for the various bearings that are cast from it, give it a try.
Mainly lead with more antimony. I used to machine bearings lined with it for rock crushers.
Mr FC45LC, there is one other interesting fact about Bismuth is that unlike other metals that shrink as it cools, Bismuth expands as it cools. if you ever reload with it you would have to compensate and drop the castings before they cool too much or they would stick in your mold and be a devil to resize. it can be alloyed with Tin, lead and others which also brings the melting point down even lower and controls the expansion some. the old magicians trick of melting an apparent silver spoon in a cup of coffee was actually a lead,Cadmium, Tin, and Bismuth alloy with a melting point around 200F.
Artillery shells are steel. But they have copper, brass, or bronze rings crimped in grooves to engage the rifling. Or use a swagged copper cup with an undersized steel or other hard metal projectile inside.
Yep, the copper driving bands are what engages the rifling. The US Navy discovered in the 80s or so that for the 16" Iowa class main battery that wrapping the power bags in a plastic material and including a bag of lubricating compound reduced the barrel wear lifetime from ~300 shots to undetectable under normal use. :) If only we knew that in WW2.
Good stuff as always. Always a pleasure to listen to you. Thanks.
Thanks Fortune Cookie. I like what you did.
Just an FYI, there's a guy making bullets with a lead top and a zinc base (similar to the old zinc washer molds) (sorry, don't recall his name right now), and if I deciphered what he said, he's implying that once the gun is "shot in" with his bullets, that there's very little wear on the rifling. Sounds like the bullets are essentially firelapping the barrel and leaving a micro-coat of zinc plating. I say this because he implied that any barrel of rifle length needed twice as thick a zinc base as otherwise.
If there's any basis for his claims, it makes this zinc experimentation even more important.
Like I said, don't recall his name, but followed a link provided by a commenter to one of the channels I frequent. He should be findable again.
Fantastic video!, being an Engineer/scientist and a practicar shooter I recognize the enormous value of information like this, thanks you sir.
Great videos and information. I have learned soooo much from you and Elvis Ammo too. My biggest take away is the power coating. I have found if properly powder coated and sized the material and hardness of a bullet is secondary. I reload and shoot handgun rounds using data for jacketed bullets. Good for accuracy and velocities that I need.
Outstanding research and very informative thank you once again
thought it would be a good idea to watch this again! : ) so , thanks again..
elvis - always great when you drop by. Don't know if you've loaded up the zinc ammo yet. So I was thinking about your zinc bullets - they should shoot for you, but impact will be off from your current zero, probably low. Bullets with soft steel core are very plentiful, but your zinc bullets oversize will be bad because of the zinc hardness, barrel resistance and higher pressure - danger of your gun blowing up. But I know you will be safe in all you do and you have thought of all this anyway...still mighty courageous as no one is paying you or financing you in this... Best to ya, FC Steve
Lead is really the best there are a few sensible precautions but if a little particles are not going straight up your nose and you’re not sucking on your thumb while you’re casting bullets it’s perfectly safe and on top of that now we have these nice coatings that will survive going on the barrel and along with that helped prevent fowling and even keep lead out of the meat of animals we may shoot.
If you start shooting a lot of zinc at the range it will become a huge nuisance for people that scavenge lead bullets to recycle for reloading. I can't forsee doing a hardness test on each bullet coming out of the range backstop (which is a sand pile for most of us. It is bad enough a lot of wheelweights are now made from zinc.
I agree with Adam, that is one very clean casting pot !
I have a bench- top injection molder, and have wanted to try tungsten polymer (plastic with tungsten powder within). I think I could use a Lee Mold to get pretty good results. Not for the average reloader, but worth looking at as an alternative.
Interesting
For every new mold I buy, I cast a bunch of bullets/buckshot/slugs in Pewter for handling while inspecting and trial fitting before casting for shooting.
Especially for trying new slug/buckshot/wad combinations.
Did you know a single layer leather wrapped around your led pot pour handle makes it always cool to touch? Add it to your mold handles and there will be no hot spot for your fingers. I super glued it on and it is staying solidly in place for many a pour.
I'm sure it hasn't been an issue but just a heads up super glue gives off toxic vapors when it is heated if your eyes start to sting increase your ventilation.
@@JoeBLOWFHB Thanks but I melt lead outside due to the toxins from the lead and the smoke from fluxing. By the way thanks for that but it has never been a problem.
That was a very good video Fortune Cookie. you explain things well and are very precise. I wonder if powder coating would be tough enough to hold rifling by itself. perhaps one could cast zinc projectiles undersized enough to limit barrel wear and make up the difference with powder coating. I too have been wondering about alternatives should the supply of lead be compromised. keep up the videos I really enjoy them.
Make that Fortune Cookie 45LC Phd. Thanks for the thoughtful research into our hobby.
What is the drive range on the zinc ball, maybe 25-40 feet and a broken driver?
Excellent analytical reporting, thank you for all that research.
Archersfriend - You've got it...broken titanium and broken shaft as well...Thanks for the great comment, and for staying in the moment...Best Regards, FC
Thank you FC, good history lesson to. Didn't Elvis have a pot failure melting Zinc ?
Cool follow up with Elvis Ammo vlog. Thanks Fortune cookie.
Bob Hartman - Thanks, Bob - Casting zinc bullets is a bit courageous on Elvis' part - he could have ruined a good mold - and now comes the loading and shooting of those bullets... Have a very fine day, FC
Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this, but density is expressed as “grams per cubic centimeter”...
Also, the video seems to be a listing of possible substitutes for lead, but doesn’t have a conclusion in the form of descending preferences.
Lead > Bismuth > Zinc etc.
Also one could consider home brew copper jackets over the harder metals.
Otherwise, this is certainly an eye-opening video, something I’d never considered. Thank you!
Nice with the reverse N on the Lyman ingot. Do you wonder how many really observe what you post. Good info also.
I learned some things tonight , thanks 👍
As others have said, this is a very interesting video.
I visited Elvis's channel this morning over Coffee. I seen what he was trying to achieve with zinc, And it's a doable thing. He was saying that his 155 gr bullets were weighing out at 95 gr when Made with Zinc, well here something out of the Box.. What if you were cast .358 150-160 gr bullets out of Zinc.. Those bullets would weigh in @about the same. Load those with starting loads to the Mid in the .38 special or the .357 Magnum.. I would think that the Barring surface would give good accuracy. and the reduction of weight would accommodate Higher velocity. (Now... This was Just an Idea and Not a recommendation for someone to try) Safety and damage is something anyone out there would assume all on their own.. Dave.
Thorsaxe777 the only thing is all that bearing surface being hard zinc instead of soft lead would raise pressures all else being equal. so if that means u cant use as much powder to keep pressure down you might not come out ahead in a speed race
Jake,, Absolutely. Like I was saying, It's something that got the wheels turning.. If someone out there was to experiment with it, They and They alone would be assuming all the liability for damage and Injury. Differently for someone who does his / her Homework. and Has been reloading for quite a while. any advice on the way of safety is welcome Jake. Dave.
you are just a wealth of knowledge fourtunecookie, you wouldn't have happen to have been a school teacher back in the day were you?
gounds28 - No, but teaching is an extremely honorable profession...and not recognized enough. Mike Ditka once said "In life, we either teach or we are taught..." Best Regards to ya, FC
Geez could you imagine having a iron cannon ball shot towards you, landing near you or a near miss. Crazy!
Thanks for the great videos! Some bullets are made of copper now. How would that be to cast?
They are made of certain copper alloys, a field of metalurgy that is still under a lot of development. The various alloys and inputs are still being perfected, and such mixing is almost out of the hands of the standard caster. Keep in mind the temperature differences, and then think of the casting blocks we use, and the materials. Copper melts at very high temperatures vs. lead's very low temperatures. Do we have the proper molds made of the proper materials? Do we have the correct furnaces to melt copper and make proper copper alloys? Are the kinds of furnaces needed safe, practical? Will the shrinkage of the molten material in the molds require different molds with different internal dimensions to compensate for shrinkage? Thinking of zinc, I know people who do a bit of metal casting with brass, and tell me that zinc boils off of brass, and is very dangerous and toxic. Depending on how you do it, it could be very dangerous.
Thanks. need to be very carefull casting!
toy collector I don't know about all copper bullets, but many of them are milled from billet stock and not cast (Lehigh for one) . That's why they are so expensive.
Density units g/cm3 . Good video again. Bismuth is also the least toxic of heavy metals. However, this would shatter upon impact, so alloying would be needed.
I bet those Zinc bullets are going to be a pain to size for starters,heat treated WW bullets are pretty darn hard to size on there own when their in the high 20+ BHN. Secondly,Zinc bullets are much lighter than the same bullet cast from a Lead based alloy probably around 30 percent on average. The weight differ is very important especially in cast rifle loads. With a given twist rate bore you can only drive a given bullet to a certain velocity before the RPM threshold is met,once you pass that RPM threshold the bullet becomes unstable. The only way to gain velocity and keep the RPM threshold in check is to go to a slower twist bore. Otherwise using the lighter Zinc bullet is more than likely going to translate into a lower velocity load using the same bullet cast from Zinc. Going to have to go check that video out an see what he's up to.
Reloader 7sixtwo the "rpm threshold" is for lead bullets because of it being weaker than jacketed bullets in the barrel. jacketed bullets copper bullets or even zinc are all harder so this dosent apply, otherwise there is no rpm limit unless centrifugal force explodes the bullet mid flight, which takes insane rpm's
The rpm threshold can be applied to all bullet types,the lathe turned style of bullets being made from all copper or brass are the least affected by the centrifuge forces applied to the bullet by the rifles twist as far as the ability to withstand those forces. If we are just talking bullet construction,even seemingly perfectly made copper cup lead core bullets come apart at some point if the V/RPM threshold exceeds the bullets design. However the BHN / hardness of the zinc bullets are not the issues here,it's the fact that they are cast an as hard as we may try,a cast bullet is not perfect. Small imperfection unseen by the human eye changes the balance of the bullet. The higher the RPM imparted to the bullet regardless of how hard it is accentuates those defects and at some point accuracy goes south. It's pretty easy to demonstrate the velocity /RPM / accuracy differences between two rifles of the same caliber with different twist bores using an identical cast lead bullet. It's fairly easy to cast a bullet that will withstand 30-06 factory velocity in the 2700 fps range,I have friends that do it but the rifles have 1:14 twist bores,put that identical load in modern 06 rifle with a 1:10 twist bore and you velocity/RPM threshold drops down to around the 2K fps. range. The bullet/load used is no different but the difference in twist rates which as velocity increases so does the RPM's have a dramatic affect on the bullets stability due to those imperfections. It's really all academic till you load up some and shoot them.
Let's also look at things from the opposite end; the slow end, instead of maximum fast end. If the rifle twist is too slow, heavy long bullets won't stabilize at lower velocities, or at some point, don't really stabilize at all! Read up on why the .243 Winchester succeeded while the 244 6mm failed, and it was because the 243's original rifle twist could stabilize 100 grain bullets. So, bullet integrity isn't the main issue, you can only do so much with a barrel twist with any bullet within a certain velocity without totally destroying its potential.
I can shoot 170 grain cast bullets from my 6.5mm Swede Mauser in my original 1-7.5 inch twist barrel, at a low 1,150 fps and get good accuracy with a very slow, heavy plinker. Try that with a 1-10 twist, 1-12, 1-14, ect. Sometimes the problem with some bullets is not enough velocity for twist, not worrying about the bullet exploding on you.
No mention of Pewter, or Tin?
I cast sample and test bullets in Pewter so I'm not handling lead while working up a cartridge, or test fitting , but I have not shot them yet.
They melt in my lead pot easily enough and I'm sure they would shoot fine.
Sabot rounds is where we're heading, imo. A 243 could be firing 223 maybe? Make the projectiles out any material you want, well within reason of course.
Once lead is either banned or becomes too expensive, sabot has to be the way to go.....
Hey, hang on a minute...... Is this the topic for a new video???? Just a thought :)
Pilot McBride You could be on to something. TwangNBang has a video shooting 45 caliber solid copper projectiles through 50 caliber muzzle loaders using sabots. I also seem to recall a very rare bullet, I think made by Remington, that was a 223 in a sabot fired from 308 Winchester cartridges.
I come back to this video and I wonder if firearms manufacturers were to possibly change the barrels to be able to withstand zink maybe we would have better luck with zink since firearms have been made they have been designed to fire lead then copper jacked lead so if a redesigned firearm were to be considered maybe that would help
FC have you ever used straight magnum shot for casting? My first batch of 45-70's shot really well, all holes touching. It's less than $1/lb
I sometimes cast lee C309 200 1R bullets from straight magnum shot. They shoot good from my 303 savage with reloader 7 powder. I got a crazy amount of magnum shot for free. It actually makes pretty good lever gun bullets. I tumble lube them and size them to .309
Thank you for this video FortuneCookie, good to know that Zink is out of question due to hardness that would soon smoothen our rifling. However, what do you think about melting the brass cases into bullets which would then be copper bullets? Or would you add on some other metal to further soften the alloy and make it more shootable ? Cheers
Antoua B sorry to tell you F/c is wrong about zinc . Zinc bullets are softer thin jacketed bullets so don’t let F/C scare you
Zinc is still alot softer then steel so it shouldn't wear out rifling although I have heard that it fouls barrels really fast so if we could find a cheap zamak alloy that doesn't foul barrels as bad as zinc we should be golden
Would you not need to consider the interaction between the metals? Galvanized iron is actually pitted or eaten away by the zinc with then infiltrates those pores, which is why it so tenaciously clings to the surface. Any time a material is driven down the bore of a gun at supersonic speeds, a certain amount will be vaporized, hence the copper and lead fouling of the barrel. Would not then zinc would likely pit the barrel as the fouling lines the interior of the barrel?
dale meade - It's courageous for Elvis Ammo to do all this for our edification...He risks his casting pot, reloading dies, and his gun barrel with those zinc bullets. And no one is giving him any grants to do the testing. Zinc bullets are really uncharted territory - it may be possible that research has been done by countries looking for bullet material alternatives (especially in times of war where strategic materials are in short supply) - if so, the fact that zinc bullets are not widely distributed today is a testament to the material not being suitable. Thanks for bringing out this point of fact... Best to ya, FC
Hi thanks for all the information you sharing !
What do you thinks for copper?
I'm learning a ton very interesting
I've only ever seen silver casted in sand for making jewelry. I'm not sure mold blocks would work.
Then the problem is cost. Right now, one ounce is $17+($272+ a pound).
Although, silver bullets would come in handy for werewolves.
PsychoAlfaSchizo - Right you are on the molds - if I did this, I'd start with a two cavity Lee mold to try, if it destroyed the mold, I wouldn't be out much - Elvis used his Arsenal molds, and I cringed a bit...expensive mold. Hard to get those high melting point metals to cast because our molds have to get real hot for them to fill. Elvis had trouble with zinc and that doesn't even melt as high as other metals. Silver is too expensive to cast bullets with, but essential for vampires and werewolves as we have been told. Don't know if I'd advise using iron molds to cast silver - would be afraid to silver solder the blocks together... Best to ya, FC
Thanks for sharing!
Now for a little cold water on the subject.Almost nobody except some pistol shooters,which I assume you are(45long colt)shoots a solid bullet anymore.Would some of these metals work instead of lead in a cup and core rifle bullet?And what of chemical or heat infusion in bullet of this type.Would they counter act against each other?Then there is the bonded bullets.Would anything bond as well as lead to copper.Copper jackets would certainly take care of rifling wear with any core metal.So where do we go for the next step.
Hi, thanks. Question. Post shtf; yes lead is available but I cannot afford the health consequences, but a conservative 10 generations of aluminum is available,...
I am talking airguns, primarily breakbarrel,...
What are your thoughts??
10 generations is alot of material just laying there,...I have to use it.
So how is best.
Perhaps order the rifle in smooth bore and caste balls is easiest. Accuracy needs to be tested.
Alternative is casting the second heaviest metal (balls) within the aluminum for more fpe and accuracy.
I am just a newb but shtf waits for no man, what are your thoughts??
Cheers and thanks.
I have a lee 20lb Melter and the manual states its not for melting Zinc.
Thanks for the video! Polymer is the future of projectiles...
Fortune Cookie45LC how do you keep your Lee pots so clean?
Could this be a suitable option: cast smaller than bore zinc bullet and insert it in a plastic sabot like muzzleloaders do?
did you cast that zinc ball I'd like to cast some zinc cannon balls for a golf ball cannon can't find any molds
Stiggy's Nerd Cave whats the bore diameter?
Sir, thank you for the very fine video!
I've been thinking in casting a 90-5-5 alloy (lead, antimony and tin). Do you recomend water quenching and heat treating it? What is a good source of knowledge (books, magazines...) about hea treating lead alloys?
Thank you very much!
emmeponto - Why, that thar alloy is Lyman #2 pardnah...!! You can't go wrong casting cast bullets with Lyman #2. You can read about heat treating cast bullet alloys from The Los Angeles Silhouette Club and also from CastBoolits. However, you must remember that cast bullets have been shot since the round ball days, and heat treating the bullets has been relatively recent. My own view is that cast bullets can easily and ful satisfaction be used in 95% of our shooting without any heat treatment (oven baking bullets at a certain temperature - alloys need to have small amounts of arsenic to heat treat well - and quenching). With the technology of powder coating, the need to heat treat is even less desirable than before. I can cast 45 ACP bullets out of plain range scrap for zero cost, quench them, and powder coat them for well less than a penny a bullet and shoot up a storm in my ACP and 45 Colt / 45 Schofields. And if I start thinking about heat treating for rifle bullets, it's simply time to use jacketed bullets - That solution was made by the armies of the world back in 1900 and that still goes today.... Best to ya, Steve
In regards to smoothbore 12-gauge shotguns:
Slugs, 00 shot, and 000 shot cast from zinc instead of lead would be safe to shoot from a smoothbore barrel. Is thus correct?
Are Slugs, 00 shot and 000 shot that are cast from zinc soft enough to accurately clear a smoothbore barrel with a modified choke tube (like ammo cast from lead does)?
Solid Zinc anything is subject to shattering and breaking apart. Zinc is hard, but brittle...which is why the alloy with lead.
thank you sir for the video..
TonyandLaura Pritchett - And thank you for taking the time to post comment...You two have a great day... FC
Okay, who else thought the river rock at 1:00 was a potato, and/or that this was going to be a parody video?
Screaming Eagle - Hooray for the 101st Airborne..!! Happy 4th..!! This video was for information and fun only...since we aren't going to be using all those other metals... Best to ya, FC Steve
That was actually a model of Joe Biden's head.
Hey FC would using silver solder 95/5 or any solder containing silver help or hurt in bullet casting? From what I read it will help in hardness, but would it ruin the rifling? Can you possibly make a video showing how to use solder properly when casting bullets and show the benefits/problems with the process.
What if you have any alloy with bi and tin? Can you cast that?
Babbitt metal, used for commercial bearings, molds very well..
Mac- I have some natural gas engine main gets that weigh over a pound each. I want to try this. Have you done some casting? What molds are you using? What sizing method do you use? Thanks for the info.
Also, how about paper patches on hard bullets.
bismuth for fire extinguishers? why would they want the fire to get so big that the ceiling is 500 degrees before water sprays. they could use one of those chamber castings type alloys with a melting point of 180 or so. then the fire might get put out before the buildings ruined.
because in places like commercial kitchens there are open flames, steam, hot oil, etc. that get well over 250 degF that would set sprinklers off. IT is basically a safety factor to ensure that the sprinklers only go off in the event of a larger fire.
Any alloys that lower the hardness of metals?
Would it be good to make bullets from solder (aside from cost)?
Lead and tin (usually), so yes. But it would be very expensive as you stated.
I wonder why nobody's tried zinc shot for a non toxic option for waterfowl, seeing as it's the same density as iron (steel).
Powdered metal mixes in polymer or epoxy would make cheaper ammo.
Extruded into a mould would be so easy, the polymer would also allow the bullet to slip down the barrel.
Scrap metal powdered and mixed with polymer ammo could be heated in your Black and Decker toaster oven.
Sounds like an idea similar to BPI's ITX non toxic shotgun shot. Various metal elements make up the weight in the shot, while a binder keeps it relatively soft to keep it from damaging the barrel by scratching and chokes from bursting from pressure. The real question is wither it would work for regular bullets, which have to maintain a certain shape and integrity, especially as it is is being driven against a bore that is smaller than the bullet's diameter, at high velocity, high pressure, and high heat from burning gases. Lead and lead alloys can swage to the barrel, which is good, and the powdered mix, I don't know.
Also, it would probably suffer on the terminal ballistics end for hunting and self defense, it would probably hold together or burst apart, both of which are not usually desired. But, a very interesting observation.
Myles Nicholas - Injection molded bullets - we might just be doing that if lead is banned...Best to ya, Myles... FC
kingduckford - Sounds like some possibilities there though - composite bullets... materials science will enable this if it comes to that... Best to ya, FC
I cast my "lead" bullets with lead zinc alloy. Some WW are zinc others are lead and they melt together. So I get allways a high percentage of zinc in my bullets. They wrinkle more but work. According to this Mohs hardnes table Zinc isnt way harder than lead. www.jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/.Lead is 1.5 Moh, Zinc is 2.5 Moh, Copper (like copper jacket or bullets) is 3 Moh, Iron is 4.5 Moh, Brass is 3 Moh, Bronce is 3 Moh, Silver is max 3 Moh and Gold is max 3 Moh as well. So, IMHO, Copper bullets or copper jackets are more Barrel wearing than Zinc. So Zinc is even safer to use than any FMJ bullet from the factory.Wikipedia confirm These Moh hardnes here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardnesses_of_the_elements_(data_page).So that might not be very true that Zinc wears the Barrel out as you suggest - at least less than any copper bullet or Copper FMJ.
Metallurgy is WAY more complex than comparing Mohs scale chart off wikipedia, especially when dealing with a metal alloy that is to be subjected to extreme pressure, shock, and temperature.
For starters the Moh scale is used to measure rocks, and its comparative in nature (this scratches that, but not this other thing) whereas the Brinell scale is often used for metals and alloys because it measures how much of a controlled impact deforms various materials. However, that also doesn't help when it comes into factors that are critical in internal and external ballistics.
Not to beat a dead horse, but when that same wikipedia page told you that Gold is just as hard as Zinc that should have been a red flag.
Hi FC 45LC ! I wonder If it is possible to use tin? Thank you from Johan
Johan Alfredsson - Tin can indeed be used to cast bullets as the melting point is somewhere around 450 degrees F (lead melts at 621 F). Also, the density of tin is very similar to that of iron to it is heavy enough for bullets. However, the one drawback of tin is the cost - about $16 a pound. Cost to cast 1 bullet would be around 50 cents. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC can you add some pewter in with the lead , to get more percentage up on the tin content? Tks. Joseph Phelps. PS. Just learning to cast.
Why no one uses shells shaped like APFSDS for a tank in a shotgun ? Meaning a shotgun is a smooth bore like a tank barrel. To increase accuracy and penetration a tank uses APFSDS rounds which use a sabot to guide and accelerate. So why not apply the same principle to shotgun rounds for the same purpose ? This could even penetrate bulled proof vests.
One way to get around the Zinc hardness problem would be to cast the bullets undersized and paper patch them so the Zinc never comes in contact with the bore.
Lets start shooting gold bullets. Who ever has the most gold fauling in his barrel wins! 🤠
M - Actually, it has been determined that gold would make fine bullets with one problem - the cost. Gold fouling could be controlled with the right hardnss of gold alloy and proper lubrication. Silver can be used, but it is not the best because of light density and cost also.
@@FortuneCookie45LC Yeah i bet it has. It seemingly has the right properties. Silver may also be abit to hard/brittle?
Thanks for taking time to reply!
Silver was used for aircraft bearings back in the day.
what about aluminum bullets?
The density is too low. Wouldnt carry well over distance. Lead is so good because the key is Soft-Heavy-Low Melt Point
Sweater Dood Do you think it'd work for short range cartridges like 9mm or .45 for example?
@@themobsprinter Aluminum is probably one of the worst metals for a bullet.
Why not mix metal alloys dust for weight with polymer for forming ?
I am thinking it would be factory made into granuals like reloading powders.
Then you would measure out the bullet weight you wanted.
Finally bake them in a muffin tin like bullet mold to cast them.
Set your oven timer and watch reloading videos while you bake some bullets.
LIVIN CINCY as good as that sounds, lighter bullets would cause issues with effectiveness of the bullet in regards particularly to penetration power.
A hard dust in a softer binder would act like sandpaper on the bore. A polymer jacket to conform the rifling is an option.
what if you cannot afford to buy the 4 pk? Can you just buy one item? How much for the item and shipping?
what about copper FMJ filled with Zinc instead of Lead?
OH OH, I know! cast zinc with a copper plating!?
The Lone Ranger used silver and always gave one to someone.
How do I tell that my lead is hard enuff ? I've melted down a bunch of range scrap. And just cast my first 45 acp bullets .?
They make different hardness meters.
I've seen gunblue use one I think it was made by Lee
will fluxing get the zinc out of our lead? what happens if zinc is in our lead?
rustybayonet .com check out his video on heartbreak of zinc. it shows zinc lead ingots. its not pretty i will warn you
rustybayonet .com and i dont think it will. but zinc is. about 150 degrees higher melting point. lead is 621 zinc at 787 degrees. so a little attentiveness to the cast iron pot while making ingots will allow us to get the zinc out before it melts
Well my ingots look good, so I'm safe from zinc sofar.
What's up with the backwards n in the Lyman ingot. Made in mother Russia?
TF - That was a joke at the Lyman factory...I haven't seen that since I bought these molds many many years ago... Best to ya, FC Steve
Why not cast zinc, powder coat then size to desired bullet diameter??? The zinc would never touch the rifling.
I didn’t think you could melt zinc in a metal pot? Didn’t elvis ammo blow a hole in his casting pot while doing this?
How do you make hard cast bullets?
I super appreciate your videos, but can you get a better mic, or reposition it? It sounds like you're talking through a cardboard tube.
I guess we will have to start separating zinc out of our range scrap as to not melt lead and zinc into the same ingots.
Pure lead melts right at 622 degree F,while Zinc Melts right at 788
degrees F. Zinc is one of those thing I have to watch for when melting
raw wheel weight. It's not really had to keep the two apart in the same
pot if you use a lead thermometer an watch your temps. If I
accidentally get one in the mix the Zinc weights float on the top just
like the steel clips an are easily skimmed off.
Reloader 7sixtwo: 166 degrees seems like a small window for error but I have been wrong before. Guess I should add a laser thermometer to my reloading setup. I can not remember where I read it but I believe that there are some ammunition companies also using zinc in their bullets instead of lead.
Back when I started melting WW's 30 years ago zinc wasn't a problem but it's been gradually showing up more and more so I always use a lead thermometer to gradually work my melting pot temp up,haven't messed up a batch of lead yet. About a month ago I sorted three five gallon buckets of WW's I got for free and only lost about a gallon paint can from the haul to zinc and steel weights. That will net me a couple hundred lbs. of good WW alloy to add to the stash.
Reloader 7sixtwo i wish i could get wheel weights, all my local places refuse a dollar a pound. i think most shops have contracts to where the lead goes. i end up buying 55lb lead bars online.
Jake A I hate that for you it's really about the same here these day at least with the chain tire stores. The small Mom & Pop tire places in the outlying areas are usually your best bets as the recyclers don't bother them much. They usually buy the standard WW's a well as there much cheaper than steel or zinc,scrap yards or recycles centers,Radiology Dept. at local Hospitals or Contractors that do renovations on old building are also a good sources to check out as well as local ranges in an outdoors. It takes some leg work as well as putting out the word to friends and family members that you looking for lead work as well. Good luck hope you hit a lead mine at some along the way. Being that I don't shoot a public ranges due to distance or local ranges due to the high cost of membership I shoot at a friends house where we can collect and recycle cast as well as jacketed bullet from our berm.
The only problem I have noticed with lead bullets is velocities above 1300 FPS,
Big Gee - If you mix to get BHN 15 - 18, you can shoot any of your full house 44, 41 and 357 magnums with cast bullets and they will shoot to satisfaction...powder coating is another option to allow us to get magnum velocities to 1900 fps clean and accurate shooting. And good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC thank you
anyone notice ? ... the " N " is backwards on the lead ingot.
How does the zinc ruin lead alloys. Does it do something to the strength or cause an oxidation of some kind what is the risks
rickrn2 i havent seen it in person but it gets weird like chunky soup instead of a liquid
Thanks Jake and thanks fortune I found your video from 3 years ago on what happens if you mix the two at high temps and how they pour.
Looks as if the only way would be through precision temperature control not exceeding zincs melting point but the two metals melt points are too close for comfort on a pot with most heating sources.
rickrn2 myself and lot of others just pinch each wheel weight with wire cutters and if it dents it becomes bullets. takes a bit but its worth it
I need to spend a day driving around on a wheel weight run if I can't get them for free twenty dollar bill goes a long way for the guys in the service bays actually changing tires. Management always says no LOL
Stupid question time, how many times can you reuse your brass?
Unlucky Eddy completely depends how powerful the load is. fastest i had a case go bad is 5 firings or so for 22-250 with cases that never been annealed, the neck split. on the other end people been making lots of 38 wad cutters with the same cases for decades.
I shoot .303 Brit and I have a.44 Mag and I was thinking of getting into reloading for them.
Unlucky Eddy loading revolver bullets with carbide dies is the easiest thing to load. its a good place to start
Unlucky Eddy it all depends on brand how hot is the load. there are many factors that will vary.
Is there a way to sneak zinc into a non-lead alloy to soften the material for muzzleloading revolvers? Reason I ask is because lead is becoming super difficult to get where I live and my most used weapons are muzzleloading guns.
Benjamin Jarrett Go find a scrapyard/recycling place. Thats what we do,trade car batteries for lead.
Jacket bullets are harder than zinc and I get great accuracy
Hey torture can you get a mic your hard to hear in some vids at full volume
Copper?
Have you ever noticed the "N" on Lyman is backwards?
JV - Yes, it was a joke at the factory and not repeated since. Have a great day, FC Steve
For casting Khyber Pass bullets.
What about brass?
All these years. I never noticed the N is backwards on. LYMAN.
Think I'm going to cast some Lyman slugs from zinc see how accurate they are
Tony Arruda I'd love to know how that turns out after watching this video my first thought was cast zinc slugs
Stiggy's Nerd Cave I will post some pictures when I get too do it, been raining here for days,, i would really love for it to work because I have about 600 lbs if zinc wheel weights.
Tony Arruda il be waiting your test results I have about 30 pounds of zinc and no use for it so this is very appealing
I hope your zinc slugs work out for you iv been cast zinc pistol bullets for the last two year and they don’t hurt your barrel at all don’t let F/C you scare you
Paper patch the zinc bullet or Teflon patch , no bullet deformation
lead furnace blows the circuit every time i plug it in
Does anybody know where to get scrap zinc?
Johnson Davis if your looking for zinc I get mine from wheel weights iv been making zinc bullets now for two years
@@williebulletman5217 Thanks for the reply. How much did you pay per pound? And any tips? Thanks for your time.
Willie Bulletman what caliber are you making and do you blend it with anything?
Id like to see some 3008 zinc pills casted please
you sound just like the Klein bottle guy from the numberphile UA-cam.
Donz Milky - That guy is one of a kind...Thanks for the comparison, I think.... Have a great day ;) :) ;) FC
FortuneCookie45LC he's a cool dude. made a ton of money off of selling a bottle that has no use as a container. sounds pretty smart to me. haha
it was just an observation.
The Lyman lead ingot shows the "N" backward...