Great video once again. I'm interested in how much p25 would affect audio quality and range compared to analog, especially when using OEM standard length antennas
Did a quick followup test this past day, around town handheld to handheld, as expected, UHF won out reaching about 4k's, vhf was only just breaking squelch, this was a dual test as was also recording on a mobile rig at home in dual channel scan, with mobile antenna on pole about 2 mtrs above ground, this is hilly and a lot of tree lined areas, although nothing like the density in your forest tests, at home similar results uhf was clear for about 8km's vhf disappeared around 5km's, and even close in around 2km's uhf clear vhf was noisy, so base camp in say an RV or similar height would get you good distance too on UHF, at least around here :) Then the next test, the waterfront is about 17km's from home and home is by no means on a high hill, the local car test portable was average sedan inside windscreen, vertical, facing waterfront - no obstacles, surprisingly, the VHF test from 1km was heard on the home radio albeit hissy, you could understand normal level voice, uhf nothing, car portable full quietening on both bands, headed off to a location on a local island, uhf was doa about 11ks from car, the vhf kept it all the way to the island, 19km's away on portable, home lost it between 13 and 14km's, I'm sure we could have got better distance on vhf, but there was 25 to 30 knots and it was a dark 9pm, didn't want to meet the local heli rescue guys outside the pub so stayed on the island :)
@@Ressy66 wow!!!! Outstanding, thank you for the info! I just completed the water testing with the standard sized antennas today… video to come shortly! Thanks again for sharing all that
How did you make the receiving end ? With a base station you must be shure you don't get desensitized by nearby strong signals (especially in VHF). The antenna must not be a dual band and tou have to place it at the exact same spot or there will be diferences betwen bands. You seamed to have kind of intermitent front end blocking by strong signals. On a portable receiving setup: Radio must be on a clear point (with no obstacules) . When you finish VHF, you take the portable away, and quickly put the UHF portable at the exact same spot (someone helping will do this work). That's the only way to compare (doesn't matter where you are). Otherwise, you will sabotage the end results (55 + years tac comms guru HF/VHF low/VHF mid/VHF hi/UHF/SHF here...)
Hey j, I definitely appreciate the comment and with your experience I certainly appreciate any insight … So on the receiving end are separate HTs with an antenna height at approx 3-4feet high. For this test they are on a beach so there are zero obstructions….. all the obstruction stuff is well tested in the woodland videos lol. This is also almost purposely not meant to be purely scientific, like doing these tests in a vacuum is of no real benefit to me, I am just looking to get the results so I know what I can expect to achieve.
These are excellent "real world" tests. Just curious, have you bench tested the study HTs for the actual power output versus the specs ? I don’t know about the Motorolas, but I presume the VHF & UHF output wattage is the same for all ? Looking forward to your next.
@@baronedipiemonte3990 hey! Yes I have…. The only one that was found to be different was the APX, I have to change that output, other than that all right around 5watts.
Were you facing in the direction of the receivers during all transmissions? Believe it or not, your body/melon can block RF. I know it couldn't have been much at only 1 mile, but facing the radio in the direction of the intended target can really make the slightest difference. Very similar to how holding the radio upright to where the antenna is pointed straight up at the sky can make a difference which you did very well in this video. :)
@@rmetcalf89 hey! Yes absolutely your melon can affect it…. I was basically 90 degrees to the receiver so there was clear line of sight without my body in the way. I was turning though to watch for traffic and to add that to the testing just because, you cannot always face your receiver so I wanted to know what they would do. And hey I appreciate you keeping me in check when it comes to the antenna orientation, but that will also be addressed and challenged later on lol.
@@RANTStrategies I look forward to the antenna orientation test. I have done it myself and I was shocked how moving my radio 2 inches made a difference in reception for the other radios.
These tests dont make sense, compared to my testing in the past at least, you should test every radio for output wattage on a good meter, are those all std supplied stubbies or after market? Got a VNA? I'd check them for centre frequency and compare it to the freq your using, even radio should kill it over a mile over water - just like the Sabre did (awesome radios - can't break them) and over water (and outer suburbia, mostly flat lightly hilled in one direction) VHF kills it over UHF, my tests have been over 4 kilometres (about 2.5miles IIRC) with yaesu stock stubby antenna, have a baofeng, its pretty useless, about 1km, these radios are dual band, so wont be tuned to max performance for either band. (further note 25w mobile to mobile on a highway amongst moderate hills and UHF dies after 7km, but VHF survived out to 16km) I ran the test two weeks apart to make sure I wasn't experiencing any ducting assistance, so I'm at a loss why your tests show opposite, the fact the Sabre is known for high power, is what makes me think those others are not performing where they should be) thanks for the test, we have a new dual band HH now, maybe I should redo our tests with it too. cant wait for part 2 :)
@@Ressy66 hey Ressy… the radios have all been tuned and tested within the last year and are all putting out right around 5watts, minus the APX… I was just looking in the CPS and realized that was set to 1 watt on all bands 🤦♂️. Anyway, those are all Motorola stubby antennas, and I do not have an antenna analyzer, but that would be awesome to see so thanks to your comment, one has been ordered! I certainly don’t mind testing anything and everything to make them as efficient as possible so any suggestions you have, please, share away!
@@RANTStrategies VNA won't do it, nor antenna resonance meters. Those are only to check if the antenna died or is completly out of band. Peformance will be on adapting the antenna for that radio on that frequency, and the solution for lack of counterpoise (especially in UHF), and also the quality of the antenna materials. Maxon and Motorola usally beat others makes by far....
@@jplacido9999 as a professional end user of many moto products, that is exactly why I have always just defaulted to using their product line. Thank you
Rock solid real world testing, that normal people want to see.
@@ewokjerky4508 appreciate it! Thank you
Great video once again. I'm interested in how much p25 would affect audio quality and range compared to analog, especially when using OEM standard length antennas
@@Tommymad1 thank you! for sure, definitely going to get there….
Did a quick followup test this past day, around town handheld to handheld, as expected, UHF won out reaching about 4k's, vhf was only just breaking squelch, this was a dual test as was also recording on a mobile rig at home in dual channel scan, with mobile antenna on pole about 2 mtrs above ground, this is hilly and a lot of tree lined areas, although nothing like the density in your forest tests, at home similar results uhf was clear for about 8km's vhf disappeared around 5km's, and even close in around 2km's uhf clear vhf was noisy, so base camp in say an RV or similar height would get you good distance too on UHF, at least around here :)
Then the next test, the waterfront is about 17km's from home and home is by no means on a high hill, the local car test portable was average sedan inside windscreen, vertical, facing waterfront - no obstacles, surprisingly, the VHF test from 1km was heard on the home radio albeit hissy, you could understand normal level voice, uhf nothing, car portable full quietening on both bands, headed off to a location on a local island, uhf was doa about 11ks from car, the vhf kept it all the way to the island, 19km's away on portable, home lost it between 13 and 14km's, I'm sure we could have got better distance on vhf, but there was 25 to 30 knots and it was a dark 9pm, didn't want to meet the local heli rescue guys outside the pub so stayed on the island :)
@@Ressy66 wow!!!! Outstanding, thank you for the info! I just completed the water testing with the standard sized antennas today… video to come shortly! Thanks again for sharing all that
How did you make the receiving end ?
With a base station you must be shure you don't get desensitized by nearby strong signals (especially in VHF).
The antenna must not be a dual band and tou have to place it at the exact same spot or there will be diferences betwen bands.
You seamed to have kind of intermitent front end blocking by strong signals.
On a portable receiving setup:
Radio must be on a clear point (with no obstacules) .
When you finish VHF, you take the portable away, and quickly put the UHF portable at the exact same spot (someone helping will do this work).
That's the only way to compare (doesn't matter where you are).
Otherwise, you will sabotage the end results
(55 + years tac comms guru HF/VHF low/VHF mid/VHF hi/UHF/SHF here...)
Hey j, I definitely appreciate the comment and with your experience I certainly appreciate any insight … So on the receiving end are separate HTs with an antenna height at approx 3-4feet high. For this test they are on a beach so there are zero obstructions….. all the obstruction stuff is well tested in the woodland videos lol.
This is also almost purposely not meant to be purely scientific, like doing these tests in a vacuum is of no real benefit to me, I am just looking to get the results so I know what I can expect to achieve.
These are excellent "real world" tests. Just curious, have you bench tested the study HTs for the actual power output versus the specs ? I don’t know about the Motorolas, but I presume the VHF & UHF output wattage is the same for all ? Looking forward to your next.
@@baronedipiemonte3990 hey! Yes I have…. The only one that was found to be different was the APX, I have to change that output, other than that all right around 5watts.
Were you facing in the direction of the receivers during all transmissions? Believe it or not, your body/melon can block RF. I know it couldn't have been much at only 1 mile, but facing the radio in the direction of the intended target can really make the slightest difference. Very similar to how holding the radio upright to where the antenna is pointed straight up at the sky can make a difference which you did very well in this video. :)
@@rmetcalf89 hey! Yes absolutely your melon can affect it…. I was basically 90 degrees to the receiver so there was clear line of sight without my body in the way. I was turning though to watch for traffic and to add that to the testing just because, you cannot always face your receiver so I wanted to know what they would do. And hey I appreciate you keeping me in check when it comes to the antenna orientation, but that will also be addressed and challenged later on lol.
@@RANTStrategies I look forward to the antenna orientation test. I have done it myself and I was shocked how moving my radio 2 inches made a difference in reception for the other radios.
@@rmetcalf89 good to know I’ll make sure thats done! Lots more to come
Interesting test results. What height was the receiving radio antenna at?
What frequencies did you test on?
Was this on narrowband or wideband?
Receiving antenna height was 4 feet, freqs for VHF were 155mhz and UHF was 460mhz on narrowband
@@RANTStrategies
Great unswer. Very transparent.
We call them "stripers" in NJ
@@imtall31 ha! My man (said in my best Denzel impression)
saber 3 are you able to program? or are they astro saber?
Hey! I personally cannot program the sabers….. but radio tech friends of mine have the ability which is who did the ones I have
These tests dont make sense, compared to my testing in the past at least, you should test every radio for output wattage on a good meter, are those all std supplied stubbies or after market? Got a VNA? I'd check them for centre frequency and compare it to the freq your using, even radio should kill it over a mile over water - just like the Sabre did (awesome radios - can't break them) and over water (and outer suburbia, mostly flat lightly hilled in one direction) VHF kills it over UHF, my tests have been over 4 kilometres (about 2.5miles IIRC) with yaesu stock stubby antenna, have a baofeng, its pretty useless, about 1km, these radios are dual band, so wont be tuned to max performance for either band.
(further note 25w mobile to mobile on a highway amongst moderate hills and UHF dies after 7km, but VHF survived out to 16km) I ran the test two weeks apart to make sure I wasn't experiencing any ducting assistance, so I'm at a loss why your tests show opposite, the fact the Sabre is known for high power, is what makes me think those others are not performing where they should be) thanks for the test, we have a new dual band HH now, maybe I should redo our tests with it too. cant wait for part 2 :)
@@Ressy66 hey Ressy… the radios have all been tuned and tested within the last year and are all putting out right around 5watts, minus the APX… I was just looking in the CPS and realized that was set to 1 watt on all bands 🤦♂️. Anyway, those are all Motorola stubby antennas, and I do not have an antenna analyzer, but that would be awesome to see so thanks to your comment, one has been ordered! I certainly don’t mind testing anything and everything to make them as efficient as possible so any suggestions you have, please, share away!
@@RANTStrategies
VNA won't do it, nor antenna resonance meters.
Those are only to check if the antenna died or is completly out of band.
Peformance will be on adapting the antenna for that radio on that frequency, and the solution for lack of counterpoise (especially in UHF), and also the quality of the antenna materials.
Maxon and Motorola usally beat others makes by far....
@@jplacido9999 as a professional end user of many moto products, that is exactly why I have always just defaulted to using their product line. Thank you