“The jaw closes 30.3% more quickly and increases peak angular velocity by 41%” I love how the wording on this makes it sound like the description on a video game item.
The nerfs you get from it hit hard but it is supper effective vs like all other builds in the game but just so you know the crusher build is a counter but stab damage is good if you find a weak spot.
Given the Rotten Vale is the on land version of a whale fall, with the Vale/Highlands being deep sea/coral reef, it would make sense that the Vale's mascot Elder to be deep sea inspired, so the aquatic features probably are intentional.
the area is heavily formed from the skeleton and remains of a dalamadur the acid in the lower levels is similar to the acid it spits at players and the shape of the rotten veil is a dalamadur still ive always assumed vaal survived being swallowed by one or parasitize them and bigger dragons in general which is why till the new world we have seen any as most big monsters get sorta decimated and destroyed by hunters or blown up usually so not much remains to see a smaller younger one or one coming out of a dragon carcass and the fact dalamadur is mountain sized gave the vaal we see room to grow to elder size
Yeah defentally as the other Rotten Vale and Coral Higland Monsters are also inspired by aquatic creatures Tzi tzi yaku has color patterns similar to the ones of Dwarf Angelfish and the crest resembles fins or Odogaron having the dark red coloration usually found in deepsea animals.
@@yurei4414 Also how can we forget about the litteral Aquatic looking Monster who is somehow related to Chameleos Namielle? Im still surprised both look extremely different but apparently they are the Tigrex and Nargacuga of Elder Dragons
Something to note from my translations about Blackveil Vaal Hazak (a VARIANT, not a Subspecies) is about how anomalous the sporangia is. It reacts to threats independently of Blackveil Vaal Hazak's own intentions and is indicated to be a separate symbiotic organism. The sporangia was also found in the Rotten Vale in addition to the Ancient Forest, but is more active in the latter region. From what I gathered in my translations, it seems like Vaal Hazak may have initially found the sporangia in the Rotten Vale and ended up mutating into the Blackveil Variant, allowing it to survive the long trek to the Ancient Forest. There, it could begin terraforming the forest into a region similar to the vale. Effluvium isn't naturally found in the Ancient Forest, so it seems like the sporangia-infected Blackveil Vaal Hazak is acting as a carrier, utilizing the fungus as a medium to spread Effluvium in a locale that this microbe isn't normally found in. It's a pretty interesting ecological ploy since Effluvium seemingly can't survive on its own in the Ancient Forest, nor can Vaal Hazak. The sporangia is the saving grace of both, allowing both types of organisms to gain a foothold in an undesirable location.
I dont think Vaal is trying to turn the forest into a rotting one, rather the vaal entering to forest might be doing so to exploit the resources in the forest- the variety of things to feed on in the humid undergrowth. There also may be something within the ancient forest that the Vaal needs that warrants the occasional pilgrimage into the woods. Who knows, maybe Vaal wanted to go on a nice walk on the beach for all we know.
@@ravenschippers8267 Not my theory, that's literally what it said when I translated a part of Blackveil Vaal Hazak's pages, that it may have been turning the Ancient Forest into an environment like the Rotten Vale.
@@GunlessSnake Considering elder dragon longevity and intelligence its possible, either for itself or for more of its kind, intentional or not the fungus helps it go out and feed in new areas. I love how freaky that is
Before having watched the video, I want to say huge respect for touching on elder dragons despite most of them taking a lot of creative liberties. I can expect some of them to be quite frustrating to look at scientifically, although Vaal probably less so than others.
Honestly there are only a few Elder Dragons UHC wouldn't be too excited to talk about, and he's mention some of them already, like the black dragons and Valstrax.
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 being the final flagship of a game like XX Valstrax was definitely made with with looking cool and being an awesome fight than making sense biologically.
The idea of some brute wyverns being too tall to be affected much by the effluvium would also help to explain Acidic Glavenus’ apparently thriving in the lower reaches of the Vale. As for Banbaro, Tygrex and Fulgur, perhaps by sticking to the upper reaches of the Vale, they’re able to avoid the worst of the effluvium?
That would make sense. When you manage to bring Tigrex, Banbaro, and Fulgur Anjanath to near death, they usually limp away to sleep in the higher places of the Rotten Vale, where the effluvium doesn't reach.
If i had a nickel for everytime the Hagfish was used as comparison for MH monsters i'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
I think the reason why Bazelgeuse is resistant to Effluvium might be it's higher body heat. Torch pods can be used to burn away Effluvium. Also Vaal has a high weakness to Fire. It also has a 3 Star Dragon weakness too. Usually most common elders just have a 2 Star weakness. So Vaal having a 3 Star Fire as well as a 3 Star Dragon weakness might be due to the Effluvium, it has a symbiosis with, being very weak to Fire and the Dragon element (like theorised in the Frenzy video) killing off pathogens.
Checking hitzone values, Vaal is actually mostly immune to dragon element until its parts have been broken. It's weak to fire for the whole fight, but certain broken parts will take extra fire damage.
@@arcticblast3247 makes sense with how it's covered in rotting meat, which apparently according to ebony odo can to an extent absorb dragon element to the point of after sustained chewing being able to be hurled as a dragon projectile. Vaal I imagine might use the carrion as essentially a big sponge on its back to protect itself from dragon element from say wandering Deviljho or in squabbles against ebony odo. Which also coincidentally because it's rotten meat essentially makes it burst into flames if anything hot touches it.
UHC: *makes another elder dragon sound plausible* He can't keep getting away with it! Seriously, great video. I'm not a biologist, I'm a software engineering student, but your explanations make those videos very nice to watch. You've got a good voice for this kind of content, certainly makes up for the lack of background music. In fact, I feel like for the first time in my life I'm enjoying biology lessons.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel How to make school entertaining, attention-holding, and interesting: Just add dragons! Unnatural History Channel: Biology and Ecology with Dragons! Dungeons and Dragons: Math and Performing Arts with Dragons!
Funnily enough, the theory of a 'previously aquatic elder dragon' is one I hold for the Serpents and to a lesser extent Amatsu. I think their general morphology suggests things previous adapted for life underwater, but perhaps through way of continually jumping out of the water, like flying fish, they continued to adapt and adapt until they became extremely unique fliers that began to treat the skies above the clouds as their new ocean.
I'd honestly say Vaal is likely related to kushala, their hide is metallic, and both seem to have pores/holes in their sides used to manipulate air. After all what are vales attacks but air laden with effluvium.
@@samfish2550 It seems to appear that Kushala Daora is part of the largest family of elders, comprising itself, Vaal Hazak, Valstrax, Velkhana & Malzeno (and I suppose, if you count frontier, Garuba Daora).
In the case of Amatsu, I think it originally was in a relatively shallow water environment. When storms came, the rising water level and high speed winds greatly improved the capability to travel, disperse, and find food. The ability to adjust the moisture of the atmosphere around it let it promote the storms that were so beneficial to it, and eventually some became so good at riding the winds and adjusting moisture that they could create and live in perpetual storms.
I'm fairly sure you're on the right track with Vaal's origins. There are four other reasons besides what you covered in your video. The first, is Vaal's appearance without the flesh. This might just be me, but the silvery green scales have always reminded me of the shimmering scales of fish. In addition, the shape of it's wings seem to me like they're adapted for water, the way they look more like webbing between toes or fingers, than they do for catching air. There's also Vaal'hazak's general body shape, which appears to be somewhat thin with a long slender tail, as if well-adapted for cutting through water. There's also all of it's hooks, both on it's tail and on it's claws, which might've only served to benefit it if it were aquatic. Many aquatic creatures use hook-like teeth in order to hold onto slippery prey, and as for it's claws, they remind me of dinosaurs such as baryonyx, or the claws of cats, both of which are good at catching fish. The second reason is a bit more meta. If the coral highlands are meant to represent a coral reef, then what is the rotten vale meant to represent? I believe it's meant to represent the ocean floor, or even an oceanic trench. This is because the coral highlands is located right above the rotten vale, and the rotten vale's entire ecosystem works much like the ocean floor, with corpses and refuse falling down from above. And being based off the ocean floor, I believe Vaal was in turn based of it's inhabitants, namely, deep sea fish. Third, there's the place Vaal dwells. Though it nests in a pile of corpses, it wanders about and feels at home wading through the acid pools. To me, these pools seem reminiscent of tide or brine pools. It's not all that much evidence, but it feels like there's a reason they showed Vaal comfortably strolling through these beautiful pools. Finally, if you look at Vaal's resistances and weaknesses, you'll notice that it's immune to the water element. Now, this could just be because it's a damp environment, or that corpses and meat are damp, and thus it stands to reason water wouldn't do much to a dragon adapted to wearing the stuff. However, I personally believe that Vaal has some connection to being aquatic.
Furthermore, I think Vaal could actually be something of a fallen angel/satan figure in a way. If we are to take Legiana as an angel in the heavenly coral highlands, and Odogaron as a demon from the hell that is the rotten vale, one could imagine then that with its winged appearance and overall dominance within the vale, combined with supposedly originating in a coral highlands-like tidal area as the video suggests, Vaal Hazak could thematically be the devil himself. This is just speculation though, i doubt the designers really thought too deeply about the heaven and hell analogies here
Something interesting is that in the Blackveil Variant, the coat material is called the Deathweaver Membrane, that tough it could refer to Vaal Hazak itself I think it maybe the name that researchers gave to the particular fungus.
Capcom's design choices in Monster Hunter are so damn good that their creations simply build their own backstory and origin even after the final design has been finished. I also mistook Vaal Hazak to be a Bloodborne reference at first but with each time I found out facts about it I got more fond of it. As always, your MH documentaries are a joy to watch! I get the feeling I also learn about the real world's flora and fauna by learning the ecosystem of Monster Hunter.
I had always thought that Vaal inhaled the bacteria using a similar structure on its side to what Kushala has, taking in large amounts of air rather than expelling it. Though, I do like the aquatic/hagfish-like origin you proposed here, once again proving to be one of the best MH youtubers we've got.
Whose to say they don't share some sort of extremely ancient ancestor that breathed through its chest? Valstrax can pull air in through its chest as well, so maybe all three are distantly related to some ancient chest breathing sea dragon.
vaal is by far my second favourite monster, I just love its biology and how it ties the life cycle of monster going to the veil to die so there body can feed the eco system. plus I'm probably one of very few player who actually enjoys fighting vaal/blackveil.
@@johncronk8867 xeno/safi, I love their biology and fight mechanics. I killed like 500 xenos for that exact reason, and a lot of safis for another reason **cries in dracolite**
This was my favorite of the elder dragons introduced into World and easily in my 10 top elder dragons in the entire franchise. Seeing it on this channel was something I have been anticipating for a long while.
the theory of vaal being a small window into the world of elders first rising to land is an extremely interesting one that honestly makes me wonder what more elders from said era would look like honestly I'd love to see fossils of monsters from past eras. the roar itself is rather obvious but pretty exciting also looking forward to primal part 2 had a blast watching it >:D
This sorta brings the idea to the forefront. but can you IMAGINE how the Rotten Vale must SMELL? Just like, not only constant rotting flesh, fungi and god only know what else but also animals, doing all the things animals do, AND cultivating coats of rotting slop ON their bodies.
Oooh, I’ve been looking forward to this one because Val is just the most eerie and surreal monster in the game. I didn’t think it made any sense but now I can see it properly as a creature.
Haven't fully finished the video yet, but this makes me wonder how Vaal Hazak would continue to evolve as the Rotten Vale does. As you said its a very young ecosystem, and given that it has so much rotten flesh in it, that biomass will eventually dissolve and rot away. With how Vaal relies on the flesh to cover it and the Effluvium to feed, how those resources change will have a direct effect on the elder dragon. Perhaps Vaal Hazak will have to return to a shoreline aquatic lifestyle or to the Coral Highlands, really makes me wonder what a Coral Vaal Hazak would look like.
It's possible Vaal Hazak may actually sculpt and sustain the Vale and perpetuate it, given how it manages the effluvium. There's apparently a regular stream of flyers being overcome by the effluvium and dying (which...fits, in the real world birds are apparently incredibly susceptible to respiratory illnesses and contaminates thanks to the specialized lungs) so it's created an environment raising a constant haze of miasma and effluvium (and possibly other bacteria) to keep a more or less constant supply (and sure, effluvium is more concentrated down low but there'd almost have to be trace amounts higher up). The bounty brings in other scavengers who may or may not succumb to the effluvium. It's a bit far-fetched but Vaal may also be able to take matters into its own hands. It has several effluvium-based attacks, if it had to it may be capable of heading up to the Coral Highlands and doing a couple of them to seed Effluvium into the local wildlife. If effluvium can be contagious in certain species (like the aforesaid flyers) it could kick off a new feeding cycle for itself.
I haven't played World, but if the Elder's Crossing is a regular thing, I suspect that the Rotten Vale will receive a steady supply of dead meat for the effluvium to feast on.
@@JanusHoW regular but not consistent. i would imagine that the amount and quality would probably vary over time. In my mind a creature as reliant on this resource as Val Hazak is would probably have some kind of way to deal with lower effluvium and meat levels. Possibly through some kind of low energy torpor or hibernation.
So glad to see my favorite elder's turn come up! I never even considered that Vaal may have come from the ocean. The idea of VH being almost a sort of janitor to the vale is super interesting. Its like a druid in dragon form.
I absolutely love the consistency seen through your videos on explaining how elders' skin has some unique adaptations, and boy did this one deliver. Out of all monsters I wasn't expecting Vaal to have all those plausible analogs in biology, and the vestigial water based part I'm very fond of. Great video as always. P.S. Regarding your next MH video (which I'm very hyped for btw), I have the headcannon that Nargacuga is one of these monsters in which the subspecies is the actual monster the base form is derived from, being the black Nargacuga just deeply melanistic Green individuals with a very common mutation in a similar fashion to Khezu. One would expect the green fur is a very reasonable color for an animal with Nargacuga's habitats, and the melanistic individuals would benefit from such coloration in nocturnal and/or low lightt conditions, spreading the mutation further with their success. It ties really well, at lest for me.
All of Nargacuga’s variations have camouflage as part of their design. Lucent can go invisible and Silverwind has stripes to break up its outline to make it harder to track while moving.
A coral Vaal Hazaak would be amazing! I didn't know all that about hagfish, I always thought of Yeti Crabs and their bacterial mat farms on their body near deep sea hydrothermal vents as an analogue to Vaal's effluvium symbiosis
I love the story and ecology you gave to this monster it makes it more satisfying. Your videos also have a tendency to fill me with appreciation for monsters I never gave much thought to previously. In turn though its helped me pinpoint the negative feelings I've had towards other monsters that I couldn't quite place. Thank you for the videos!
It’s possible that when Vaal’s coral highland dwelling predecessor grabbed prey with their jaws, they would use stinging coral to break them apart. They could have had some enzyme coating over their body that made them resistant to the stinging that was later used against the effluvium
Holy shit the idea of radiotropic fungi acting as a gut biome is one of the coolest spec bio concepts I've heard of in a while! Love that, another great video
Fantastic work as usual! I'm fascinated by Vaal Hazak's rotting theme and when contextualized with everything from hagfish to gaseous gangrene, it feels a lot more well-thought-out for an elder than I give it credit. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on Primal S2, especially with the transition away from the prehistoric setting.
I think Vaal is really neat and would like to see it return but as a consequence of it's focus on the Rotten Vale it'll probably take a Crimson Glow route and have it's variant appear without the main species
I can't help but wonder how it can interact with the Qurio in Sunbreak. I know we already have Malzeno for that, but it could be interesting if it's possible to have a subspecies of Vaal that relies on Quiros. Would it no longer need Effluvium, or would it find a way to incorporate it alongside the Quiros in order to survive in environments around Kamura or Elgado? 🤔
@@phdbot4483 I think unlike with the Magalas and the Frenzy, Effluvium and Qurio wouldn’t play well with each other. The Qurio are either going to imbalance Vaal’s internal homeostasis by draining it of Effluvium and/or introducing Effluvium to areas of the body they’re not supposed to be, or the Qurio are going to rapidly die due to the Effluvium being a flesh-eating bacterium and/or toxic shock/food poisoning from the ingestion of what is literally pure disease and its waste products. Or both could happen!
On the note of the effluvium, i have a pet hypothesis that it produces a painkilling effect to whatever it's affecting. This could explain why monsters that are nearing the end of their life will migrate to the rotten vale, as well as be another possible explanation for the increased aggression of monsters afflicted by the effluvium.
Man these videos are always a blast. I never knew biology could be so interesting (mostly because I hated it in school due how boring I found it). I love how you make something that should just not exist seem actually plausible. Giant death plague eating zombie dragon? More like fish. It’s basically just school again but actually fun, keeps my attention, and I learn new things. Schools could learn a thing or 12 from you.
Great video and very informative. I’m noticing a trend that for many of World and Iceborne’s monsters, it seems more fitting that the subspecies/variants came first before the normal version. Also, can’t wait for the next Monster Hunter video as Nargacuga is my favorite monster from the franchise.
23:38 "YES! finally!! thank you!" someone else who saw the resemblance between Vaal Hazak and Jaw Wyvern from MH1's concept art! though i connected the dots with Blackveil, given the colouration and growths on the head and tail. moving on to the background of the Jaw Wyvern concept, i hope we get a forest map like that.
I love Vaal, so having something approaching a sensible origin for the species is more than I ever expected. Absolutely beautiful work. Thanks for this!
If you look at the animation when Vaal feeds, you'll notice that the Girros it's drawing the effluvium out of don't show any signs of weakness until after the effluvium leaves their bodies. While this could be caused by Vaal giving a signal that makes the effluvium consume the Girros faster (especially if some kind of "bio energy" is involved rather than real physical nutrients), it makes me think that the effluvium was more firmly integrated into the Girros than you'd expect. Like the effluvium had replaced a bunch of the Girros' cells and, the Girros was only still alive because the effluvium was inside it. When Vaal absorbs it, you can see its body is almost formed out of the stuff. I think something really unusual is going on with the effluvium. More unusual than just a farmer cultivating bacteria. I think the effluvium is acting sort of like a parasite. Not just feeding on the creatures of the Vale, but merging with them. And the immediate parallels this brings to mind is Malzeno and the Qurio. I suspect the effluvium is a much bigger part of Vaal Hazak than just the bacteria it farms to feed upon. To the point that theres a very real possibility that Vaal Hazak *is* effluvium, and the dragon is just something its using. EDIT: The other thing this brings to mind, and especially the subject of "bio energy" is the way parasites were used in Metal Gear Solid V. The idea of a parasitic organism enhancing its hosts is a fun one, as is the idea that behaviours or developments in the hosts are actually caused by the parasites and for the benefit of those parasites rather than the host primarily. Bio energy could be a living organism rather than a type of radiation. And effluvium could be a species derived from that older bio energy organism. What with its ability to inhabit other living things and consume/enhance them. The girros only dying when the effluvium leaves their bodies is likely just an artistic touch, but I like the idea that the effluvium is a subspecies of bio-energy a lot, even if its a very contrived idea. The idea that bio-energy is a type of parasitic bacteria is a pretty massive reach, but its a reach I enjoy.
Vaal Hazak is one of the most interesting monsters in the entire series. At its face, the Corpse Dragon looks to be absolutely nightmarish, like a literal zombie. Which makes it all the more surprising to find out that it's honestly one of the most reasonable Elder designs in MH history. It's a stroke of genius, which makes it all the more sad that the community doesn't seem to love it, due to its (admittedly) lackluster fight. Vaal and Namielle are my favorite hexapodal Elders though, so I hope to see them truly realized in MH6.
in the theory that vaal was originally an aquatic beast. i suggest it might have been primarily a filter feeder sustaining its self on phytoplankton and other such organisms similar in size to the effluvium. the very special design of its jaw might have been used as a way to catch live prey when the phytoplankton was not plentiful enough to sustain it. being more of an ambush predator in the depths making better use of its sedentary nature
On the topic of Vaals origin, the whole skin eating explanation actually helps me with placing Vaal on the tree. Before I wasn't sure what to make of its wings. Did it have a flying ancestor? But after this I feel more confortable placing it among other more primitive wingless elders, sinc now I can imagine the wings evolved as an adaptation to nutrient absortion. With the front and back limbs being enough for support, its middle pair just became large nutrient nets.
Vaal is one of my favorite elders of all time. His roar, his music and his gimmick are just what I wanted from a "Lich" monster, better executed than Nakarkos in my opinion.
Great video again as always. Vaal hazak is a fantastic monster. But one key detail I’ve noticed that may support the marine lifestyle it may have had is that Vaal hazak can be seen wallowing through large bodies of acid found in the vale when transitioning through areas. This could be linked to a costal ancestry. Not to mention that some of Vaal hazak’s weapons have title of “leviathan” which *could* ( using could a bit loosely here) imply that some of the locals in astera mistook Vaal hazak for leviathan Very excited to see you cover primal season 2. Good day sir
Vaal Hazak was my favorite new elder dragon in monster hunter world. Black veil both horrified me, and compelled me to get a closer look. I love your aquatic origins for vaal since geographically if creatures in the coral highlands are from shallow waters, creatures in the rotten veil are from deep water. I believe the bioenergy concept isn't a new mechanic to mhw, but has always been around in previous games. I think the bio energy gives monsters their elemental abilities as well as promotes rapid adaptation to environmental stresses. I also believe that bio energy attempts to reach a maximum power state like how elements in our world try to reach a stable state with more electrons in their outer shells. I know bio energy is the most magic like concept in monster hunter, but by thinking of it as an innate energy source in every atom of that universe, then it becomes less silly. Regardless, I love you're videos, and can't wait for more.
Glad to see Vaal Hazak covered. Since seeing it in World its easily become my favorite Elder Dragon, even if the folk I'd play with would gripe about having to deal with the Effluvia due to not wanting to give up decoration slots/their charm for resistance.
About aquatic elders, the Rise storm serpents may have aquatic ancestors. They also have the double jaws to help swallowing in air (although it could also be related to their mating that we got to see). The electric ablities of the females could have similar origins to that of some eels now instead used for flight.
This is officially canon, as far as I'm concerned. I doubt Capcom will go very far in trying to explain Vaal anyway. Also, is that thumbnail a nod to Rime of the Ancient Mariner (by Coleridge)? If so, well done! That's the whole reason I watched. Excellent video!
I do like how Vaal is the local controller of the flesh eating bacteria not allowing it to grow out of control but makeing sure it stays up at a nice level for feeding. A fungus gut theory for elder dragons eh? Interesting......
Fulgur Anjanath could be surviving by creating a repulsive charge which, while weak at a macro scale, is more than strong enough to repel microscopic particulates. Could also be imparting a charge to the particulate, causing them to clump together and become too heavy to stay aloft. Tigrex can always just fly out. I think Banbaro is on banborrowed time.
Vaal also has burrower claws on its forelegs, to better dig through its mound of carrion. It may be a distant relative of Gaismagorm, with both having those claws and weird vestigial jaws.
I've always thought that vaal hazak's mouth and teeth reminded me of the mouth of a fish like trout or eel, sometimes the idea that it has an aquatic ancestor is interesting.
You got a new sub from me. I was really thinking about starting a similar game channel but well....way less educated. Great content, I hope your channel continues to grow.
Ooh boy, Narga's next. I'm curious if you plan on touching on Barioth in that video too- the two have such similar skeletons, animations, and apparent ecological niches that I can't help but think they're more closely related than simply being in the same taxonomic class.
The idea that vaal hazak balances out the ecosystem within the vale might be another reason why nergigante does not go after it. From a story perspective, nergigante mostly hunts elders and is suggested to be an balancing force when it comes to the disruption these elders bring. From a biological stand point, the effluvium would probably wreak havoc on the epidermis of nergigante and disrupt the generation of the keratin spikes that nergigante produces. On a side note, nergigante would likely be covered in small wounds from the continue's generation of its spikes alone (disregarding elders recess being a really spiky biome and its heavy brawling style of fighting/hunting), the small cuts and wounds would create incredibly easy points to enter the bloodstream of nergigante which would lead to a quick onset of blood poisoning/sepsis.
Excellent video, as always. Vaal has always been interesting to me. With it having such a significant role in the Vale's ecosystem, and that being such a vulnerable one itself, I always felt hunting it was one of the worst things the research commission had done since arriving at the new world
Banbaro being an invader and generally widespread is still so bizarre. I did take note you didn't even bother to touch on it in particular. I already liked Vaal Hazak a lot and all of this added to my appreciation. I waited to watch until I fought him in the game and I'm definitely not disappointed!
OMG I'M SO EXCITED FOR THE NARGA VID. I love the panthera genus and seeing Narga was love at first sight. Though it may not appear felid in face value, its behavior and ecology reflect on it so much.
Loved this. I didn't realize Vaal fed like that before. Ah, REALLY looking forward to your next monster hunter. I've been waiting to hear your analysis on it most of all...outside of Goss of course.
Honestly, I can't imagine being a scientist dedicated to studying hagfishes because it seems like every year or so you'd have to go "it can do **what**?"
Nice video! The sea origin is not a bad theory i my opinion . But i (and a few others) had a similar one. It is just as obscure in details and full of speculation Vaal being a distant or basal land dwelling offshot of the same line kushala daora originates from. The most obvous would be the silver scales which is true that both has a metallic look but daora has a whole "shell" of armour. But what if we assume that this metalic scales were the primogenitor of the armour plating, its might be a coincidence or i look more into it than i should Secondly the body. This is the most easily debunkable statement because a lot of monster use the same skeletons. But the thing is that the world model of kushala has a different wing design than all the other iterations of it. It no longer has the well....whatever wing design it has. Now it has the same three close "fingers" and an "elbow" spike design similar to Vaal. Thirdly, wind manipulation vaal has the ability to compress the effluvioum on its body, and release it en masse or suck it back. My theory that it has a similar yet more primitive wind manipulation organ. Its not as powerful to generate winds that can throw humans like paper bags or barf tornadoes at you (but it would be cool if there were an ability that generates an effluvium tornado circle). But it certainly come handy controlling the effluvium. And i think this ability (with a little boost from the elders odd biology) helped the pre vale vaal hazaks to start symbiosis with it. My theory for the origins of the vaal hazaks they were ground living scavengers or moray eel like ambush predators that were relatively weak ( in the elder spectrum) with a bunch of flashy defense mechanism like using its atrophied wings and forward facing hook like spikes with its limited wind controll to scare off threats. When the rotten vale appeared they somehow either being the residents of whatever was before the vale or simply migrated to there. Then they come into contact with the effluvium and with time using their wind control to utilize the effluvium as a means to an end. With later on repurpousing their hook like spikes and wings to attach corpses to themselves and start cultivating their effluvium.
Vaal is by far my favorite elder dragon they've come up with. I do absolutely agree with the idea of Vaal being an aquatic species that migrated inland. I think where our views differ is in our interpretation of how he found himself in the Rotten Vale. The Elder Crossing has been going on forever as far as we are told, but it is only recently, relatively speaking, that the rate of Elders coming to die has increased to feed the growth of Xeno. I firmly believe that it was the increasing rate of the Elder Crossing drawing in more creatures to die that resulted in the massive pileup of corpses which perhaps prior was more spread out and less dense. One good sized mountain dragon like the Dalamadur skeleton we can see in the Vale every hundred years would probably have been the status quo until recently, causing the coral highlands and the Elder's Recess to thrive in bioenergy. Seeing a biome which Vaal may have only partially been adapting to as a passive food source, supplemented by feeding in tidal areas suddenly become engorged with rotten flesh and other creatures it would be an excellent time to just fully commit to the environment, dig into the latest mountain dragon's rotting corpse and enjoy that passive effluvium dining.
I've never played a Monster Hunter game, but I can't help appreciate how much thought they put into their monster designs. The cutscene showing Vaal emerge reminded me of the Sewer Dragon from the first Dark Souls game. And at the same time, the way this "effluvium" flowed from other monsters reminded me of filter feeder animals, like a blue whale for example, just taken to a supernatural level in Vaal. In any case, very interesting breakdown of this monster.
Don't know about thoughts of Capcom about exactly aquatic evolutionary origin, but it's general conceptual origin is 100% connected with the deep sea, because it's the whole point of Coral Highlands and Rotten Vale. It's a physical metaphor on the ocean: coral reefs with parrot fish Raphinos, barracuda-like swift Legiana, ball fish Paolumu and i-don't-know-why-Tzitzi-is-there in the higher parts and dead ocean floor with corpses and myriads of decomposers (effluvium), Great Girroses with trilobite-like gills, nearly blind "i'm the flesh eater" somewhat predatory eel-like (murena?) Odogaron and elder chauliodus himself - Vaal Hazak.
I cannot wait to get a Neopteron video in the future- hopefully sooner rather than later. Granted, there's just so many other monsters in Monster Hunter that it'd probably take a while, but I can muster all the patience I need to see these strange insects get a spec-bio once-over.
it has been suggested that the coral highlands was a regular reef that was blown out of the water by an exploding zorah magdoros, which also caused the rotten vale to form, so it does support vaal hazak being ancestrally aquatic. But a question I have is if vaal hazak may be a distant relative of malzeno, as they both seem to rely on an external source to begin digestion, with malzeno relying on qurio and vaal relying on bacteria
the veil if you look at the map is a dead dalamadur the acid in the lower levels is the same blue acid it spit at players this has been a thing players have been talking about since world dropped the bones in the upper veil are its upper skeleton left over as the meat rotting slowly thanks to gravity worked its way lower to the area it died in
bro, if Capcom really didn't intend on Vaal having an aquatic origin, I'm willing to bet once they see this they're gonna go along with it. This makes so much sense biologically that they wouldn't even need to retcon it, they'd just need to go "yeah that makes sense. This is canon now."
I love the bits about the Coral Highlands and Rotten Vale that you've gone over recently. Do you think you'll ever make videos about other unique locales in the series, or are you going to stick to monsters for now?
Vaal is actually one of my favorite dragons. I fell in love with it when I saw this corpse dragon looking monsti rise from a mound of meat and while I acknowledge the fight is really easy, I am still sad base Vaal never got an MR upgrade. Blackviel never got me like normal but I love the fact its behavior changes whenever the fungus over the face it broken or regrows
Really loved that point on how vaal could showcase a precursor species of other elder dragons due to the skin dynamics. Leads me to wonder how all the other monsters looked like before the hunters meet them.
My favorite monster!! Such a wonderful thing to see in my sub box :D so excited to watch!!! Edit: just finished! A lot of the things i like about vaal hazak are because of how fishy he looks. But somethings thats always confused me are the glowing eyespots. Its very viperfish/flashlight fish esque, but i doubt that they use them for communication like those fish do. Much less as a lure for prey seeing as how he can suck effluvium from a ways away as seen in his intro cutscene. And it doesnt feel right to say its just a leftover from a past evolutionary stage because of how the lightspots presumably work (bacteria colonies, likely the same as most bioluminescing fish). Maybe its used as a mating display? Now thats a funny mental image. Anyway, its one of those things that doesnt really make sense given the context of the monster. But it sure looks cool!
one thing brought up in the uhc discord is that vaal hazak coating itself in the dead is aided with various hooks on it's body, like the ones on some crabs that decorate themselves.
I really like the suggestion that Val Hazak represents not just a formerly semi-aquatic or aquatic animal, but also points toward elder dragons originating from the sea. the idea that elder dragons with their extremophile tendencies, six limbed body plans, and bizarre abilities are also the descendent of some bizarre deep sea animal is really interesting. Another one of those ideas that makes me wish Capcom would A) put a little more thought into the evolutionary origin of their monster, and B) would find a way to bring back water combat so we can see more fully aquatic monsters. I'd really love to fight a Val Hazak variant or close relative that's still growing coral, or a relative that leans much more into the eel morphology while retaining the elder dragon body plan.
A few thoughts- Most of the Vale's effluvium-resistant migrants are either brute wyverns or mostly-flightless flying wyverns. While the high metabolisms of flying animals (e.g canaries) can make them very vulnerable to poisonous gases, the complex bird-like lung- ancestrally found in birds and crocodiles, and also seen in certain other reptiles such as monitor lizards- may have resisted the effects of toxicity during the Permian mass extinction in a way that a simple, bag-like amphibian/mammal lung could not. It's possible that the more efficient lungs of these animals help stave off effluvium poisoning, while a more mammal-like animal such as Rajang or Zinogre would suffocate if not specifically adapted (e.g Odogaron's dragon-element or long-term endemicity). While the indirect nature of Vaal Hazaak's feeding may seem odd, it's actually surprisingly common! For example, leaf-cutter ants are obligate fungus-feeders that can't eat leaves without having it be converted into fungus in special gardens within their nests, and many herbivores such as cows are unable to digest cellulose without bacteria contained within the gut. One reason why this may be done is because breaking down tough substances such as cellulose and chitin is difficult and energetically-expensive, and results mostly in basic carbohydrates; feeding them to another organism first lets them offload the evolutionary and energetic burden for the enzymes needed, and helps use some of those carbohydrates to create lipids and amino acids instead. So perhaps Vaal Hazaak was ancestrally a herbivore, using its fungus to feed on plant detritus, with its observed habit of indirect carnivory either being opportunistic or as a response to a changed environment (via the Vale or via Rathalos)?
i theorize that there is a additional structure present in all elder dragons that lets them covert odd sources into usable ATP as well as there special ability . like vals effluvium or whatever it is that turns base chems into bio-gunpowder in teostra
Great video and I love your theories with these monsters. Have you considered doing these sort of videos on the environments/biomes of monster hunter like the Rotton Veil or Coral Highlands?
"Hagfish; the gift that keeps on giving"
couldn't have said a truer statement
We don’t deserve agnathans.
Yeah thats what I thought as well 😂
Devs were like: "wow, thats so gross and cool... more"
I could m I would have called it the big sneeze that keeps on giving or sneezing
“The jaw closes 30.3% more quickly and increases peak angular velocity by 41%”
I love how the wording on this makes it sound like the description on a video game item.
Major skill buff
The nerfs you get from it hit hard but it is supper effective vs like all other builds in the game but just so you know the crusher build is a counter but stab damage is good if you find a weak spot.
Given the Rotten Vale is the on land version of a whale fall, with the Vale/Highlands being deep sea/coral reef, it would make sense that the Vale's mascot Elder to be deep sea inspired, so the aquatic features probably are intentional.
the area is heavily formed from the skeleton and remains of a dalamadur the acid in the lower levels is similar to the acid it spits at players and the shape of the rotten veil is a dalamadur still
ive always assumed vaal survived being swallowed by one or parasitize them and bigger dragons in general which is why till the new world we have seen any as most big monsters get sorta decimated and destroyed by hunters or blown up usually so not much remains to see a smaller younger one or one coming out of a dragon carcass and the fact dalamadur is mountain sized gave the vaal we see room to grow to elder size
Yeah defentally as the other Rotten Vale and Coral Higland Monsters are also inspired by aquatic creatures
Tzi tzi yaku has color patterns similar to the ones of Dwarf Angelfish and the crest resembles fins or Odogaron having the dark red coloration usually found in deepsea animals.
@@yurei4414 Also how can we forget about the litteral Aquatic looking Monster who is somehow related to Chameleos Namielle?
Im still surprised both look extremely different but apparently they are the Tigrex and Nargacuga of Elder Dragons
@@RenoKyrie They both appear to posses electricity-producing organs (Chameleos in the horn & tail bulbs and Namielle in the barbels)
@@yurei4414 and Great Girros having a resemblance to frilled sharks with its own gills
Something to note from my translations about Blackveil Vaal Hazak (a VARIANT, not a Subspecies) is about how anomalous the sporangia is. It reacts to threats independently of Blackveil Vaal Hazak's own intentions and is indicated to be a separate symbiotic organism. The sporangia was also found in the Rotten Vale in addition to the Ancient Forest, but is more active in the latter region.
From what I gathered in my translations, it seems like Vaal Hazak may have initially found the sporangia in the Rotten Vale and ended up mutating into the Blackveil Variant, allowing it to survive the long trek to the Ancient Forest. There, it could begin terraforming the forest into a region similar to the vale. Effluvium isn't naturally found in the Ancient Forest, so it seems like the sporangia-infected Blackveil Vaal Hazak is acting as a carrier, utilizing the fungus as a medium to spread Effluvium in a locale that this microbe isn't normally found in.
It's a pretty interesting ecological ploy since Effluvium seemingly can't survive on its own in the Ancient Forest, nor can Vaal Hazak. The sporangia is the saving grace of both, allowing both types of organisms to gain a foothold in an undesirable location.
I dont think Vaal is trying to turn the forest into a rotting one, rather the vaal entering to forest might be doing so to exploit the resources in the forest- the variety of things to feed on in the humid undergrowth. There also may be something within the ancient forest that the Vaal needs that warrants the occasional pilgrimage into the woods. Who knows, maybe Vaal wanted to go on a nice walk on the beach for all we know.
@@ravenschippers8267 Not my theory, that's literally what it said when I translated a part of Blackveil Vaal Hazak's pages, that it may have been turning the Ancient Forest into an environment like the Rotten Vale.
Go for it Vaal, turn all lowlands into rotten pits of carcass!
Forever we shall rot!
Variant = Subspecies
@@GunlessSnake Considering elder dragon longevity and intelligence its possible, either for itself or for more of its kind, intentional or not the fungus helps it go out and feed in new areas.
I love how freaky that is
Before having watched the video, I want to say huge respect for touching on elder dragons despite most of them taking a lot of creative liberties. I can expect some of them to be quite frustrating to look at scientifically, although Vaal probably less so than others.
true i seen the video and felt the same but knowing the channel i wouldn’t be disappointed
@@blackcrasanblade Agreed, it was well researched and entertaining as usual
Honestly there are only a few Elder Dragons UHC wouldn't be too excited to talk about, and he's mention some of them already, like the black dragons and Valstrax.
@@firetools tbh those are at times more characters than animals I feel
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 being the final flagship of a game like XX Valstrax was definitely made with with looking cool and being an awesome fight than making sense biologically.
The idea of some brute wyverns being too tall to be affected much by the effluvium would also help to explain Acidic Glavenus’ apparently thriving in the lower reaches of the Vale. As for Banbaro, Tygrex and Fulgur, perhaps by sticking to the upper reaches of the Vale, they’re able to avoid the worst of the effluvium?
That would make sense. When you manage to bring Tigrex, Banbaro, and Fulgur Anjanath to near death, they usually limp away to sleep in the higher places of the Rotten Vale, where the effluvium doesn't reach.
His roar in my opinion is one of the best sounds in world and iceborne. I love it so much.
I find his roar to sound very similar to one of my favorite elder dragons, Amatsu. They both have that deep, whale song like cry.
His roar sounds like a vacumer lol
It's almost cute lol
If i had a nickel for everytime the Hagfish was used as comparison for MH monsters i'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
What was the other one, khezu?
@@danieledwards4821 no quite the contrary in fact, It was in Mizutsune's video
The "Elder and Piscine Wyverns are related" theory gets stronger
With Plesioth's cosmic hip check? It's already an Elder Dragon level threat.
@@latticeddreams Plesioth have force field sac that helps to hit that annoying hip attack.
Jyrotodus does have two flippers on top of its back that could have evolved into the wings of elder dragons
@@nathanieldelacruz1732 plesioth have flippers so his hipcheck actually pushes the air making a strong attack that launches you
Cringe pfp no dabloons
I think the reason why Bazelgeuse is resistant to Effluvium might be it's higher body heat.
Torch pods can be used to burn away Effluvium. Also Vaal has a high weakness to Fire. It also has a 3 Star Dragon weakness too. Usually most common elders just have a 2 Star weakness.
So Vaal having a 3 Star Fire as well as a 3 Star Dragon weakness might be due to the Effluvium, it has a symbiosis with, being very weak to Fire and the Dragon element (like theorised in the Frenzy video) killing off pathogens.
Checking hitzone values, Vaal is actually mostly immune to dragon element until its parts have been broken. It's weak to fire for the whole fight, but certain broken parts will take extra fire damage.
@@arcticblast3247 makes sense with how it's covered in rotting meat, which apparently according to ebony odo can to an extent absorb dragon element to the point of after sustained chewing being able to be hurled as a dragon projectile.
Vaal I imagine might use the carrion as essentially a big sponge on its back to protect itself from dragon element from say wandering Deviljho or in squabbles against ebony odo. Which also coincidentally because it's rotten meat essentially makes it burst into flames if anything hot touches it.
UHC: *makes another elder dragon sound plausible*
He can't keep getting away with it!
Seriously, great video. I'm not a biologist, I'm a software engineering student, but your explanations make those videos very nice to watch. You've got a good voice for this kind of content, certainly makes up for the lack of background music. In fact, I feel like for the first time in my life I'm enjoying biology lessons.
I’m glad I’m making education at least partly fun!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel How to make school entertaining, attention-holding, and interesting: Just add dragons!
Unnatural History Channel: Biology and Ecology with Dragons!
Dungeons and Dragons: Math and Performing Arts with Dragons!
Funnily enough, the theory of a 'previously aquatic elder dragon' is one I hold for the Serpents and to a lesser extent Amatsu.
I think their general morphology suggests things previous adapted for life underwater, but perhaps through way of continually jumping out of the water, like flying fish, they continued to adapt and adapt until they became extremely unique fliers that began to treat the skies above the clouds as their new ocean.
And Namielle would be a closer relative to it than Amatsu or Narwa?
I'd honestly say Vaal is likely related to kushala, their hide is metallic, and both seem to have pores/holes in their sides used to manipulate air. After all what are vales attacks but air laden with effluvium.
@@samfish2550 It seems to appear that Kushala Daora is part of the largest family of elders, comprising itself, Vaal Hazak, Valstrax, Velkhana & Malzeno (and I suppose, if you count frontier, Garuba Daora).
In the case of Amatsu, I think it originally was in a relatively shallow water environment. When storms came, the rising water level and high speed winds greatly improved the capability to travel, disperse, and find food. The ability to adjust the moisture of the atmosphere around it let it promote the storms that were so beneficial to it, and eventually some became so good at riding the winds and adjusting moisture that they could create and live in perpetual storms.
I mean, the Serpents look like straight up sky whales
I'm fairly sure you're on the right track with Vaal's origins. There are four other reasons besides what you covered in your video.
The first, is Vaal's appearance without the flesh. This might just be me, but the silvery green scales have always reminded me of the shimmering scales of fish. In addition, the shape of it's wings seem to me like they're adapted for water, the way they look more like webbing between toes or fingers, than they do for catching air. There's also Vaal'hazak's general body shape, which appears to be somewhat thin with a long slender tail, as if well-adapted for cutting through water. There's also all of it's hooks, both on it's tail and on it's claws, which might've only served to benefit it if it were aquatic. Many aquatic creatures use hook-like teeth in order to hold onto slippery prey, and as for it's claws, they remind me of dinosaurs such as baryonyx, or the claws of cats, both of which are good at catching fish.
The second reason is a bit more meta. If the coral highlands are meant to represent a coral reef, then what is the rotten vale meant to represent? I believe it's meant to represent the ocean floor, or even an oceanic trench. This is because the coral highlands is located right above the rotten vale, and the rotten vale's entire ecosystem works much like the ocean floor, with corpses and refuse falling down from above. And being based off the ocean floor, I believe Vaal was in turn based of it's inhabitants, namely, deep sea fish.
Third, there's the place Vaal dwells. Though it nests in a pile of corpses, it wanders about and feels at home wading through the acid pools. To me, these pools seem reminiscent of tide or brine pools. It's not all that much evidence, but it feels like there's a reason they showed Vaal comfortably strolling through these beautiful pools.
Finally, if you look at Vaal's resistances and weaknesses, you'll notice that it's immune to the water element. Now, this could just be because it's a damp environment, or that corpses and meat are damp, and thus it stands to reason water wouldn't do much to a dragon adapted to wearing the stuff. However, I personally believe that Vaal has some connection to being aquatic.
Furthermore, I think Vaal could actually be something of a fallen angel/satan figure in a way. If we are to take Legiana as an angel in the heavenly coral highlands, and Odogaron as a demon from the hell that is the rotten vale, one could imagine then that with its winged appearance and overall dominance within the vale, combined with supposedly originating in a coral highlands-like tidal area as the video suggests, Vaal Hazak could thematically be the devil himself. This is just speculation though, i doubt the designers really thought too deeply about the heaven and hell analogies here
Something interesting is that in the Blackveil Variant, the coat material is called the Deathweaver Membrane, that tough it could refer to Vaal Hazak itself I think it maybe the name that researchers gave to the particular fungus.
Capcom's design choices in Monster Hunter are so damn good that their creations simply build their own backstory and origin even after the final design has been finished. I also mistook Vaal Hazak to be a Bloodborne reference at first but with each time I found out facts about it I got more fond of it.
As always, your MH documentaries are a joy to watch! I get the feeling I also learn about the real world's flora and fauna by learning the ecosystem of Monster Hunter.
I had always thought that Vaal inhaled the bacteria using a similar structure on its side to what Kushala has, taking in large amounts of air rather than expelling it. Though, I do like the aquatic/hagfish-like origin you proposed here, once again proving to be one of the best MH youtubers we've got.
Vaal's scales do have a sort of silver coloring like Kushala's too
Whose to say they don't share some sort of extremely ancient ancestor that breathed through its chest? Valstrax can pull air in through its chest as well, so maybe all three are distantly related to some ancient chest breathing sea dragon.
@@DanielisAwesome52 it’s quite possible, and more importantly fun to think about.
vaal is by far my second favourite monster, I just love its biology and how it ties the life cycle of monster going to the veil to die so there body can feed the eco system. plus I'm probably one of very few player who actually enjoys fighting vaal/blackveil.
What’s your first?
@@johncronk8867 xeno/safi, I love their biology and fight mechanics. I killed like 500 xenos for that exact reason, and a lot of safis for another reason **cries in dracolite**
You are not alone, it’s my favourite monster
This was my favorite of the elder dragons introduced into World and easily in my 10 top elder dragons in the entire franchise. Seeing it on this channel was something I have been anticipating for a long while.
the theory of vaal being a small window into the world of elders first rising to land is an extremely interesting one that honestly makes me wonder what more elders from said era would look like
honestly I'd love to see fossils of monsters from past eras.
the roar itself is rather obvious but pretty exciting also looking forward to primal part 2 had a blast watching it >:D
This sorta brings the idea to the forefront. but can you IMAGINE how the Rotten Vale must SMELL? Just like, not only constant rotting flesh, fungi and god only know what else but also animals, doing all the things animals do, AND cultivating coats of rotting slop ON their bodies.
The opposite of bussin
Oooh, I’ve been looking forward to this one because Val is just the most eerie and surreal monster in the game. I didn’t think it made any sense but now I can see it properly as a creature.
Haven't fully finished the video yet, but this makes me wonder how Vaal Hazak would continue to evolve as the Rotten Vale does. As you said its a very young ecosystem, and given that it has so much rotten flesh in it, that biomass will eventually dissolve and rot away. With how Vaal relies on the flesh to cover it and the Effluvium to feed, how those resources change will have a direct effect on the elder dragon. Perhaps Vaal Hazak will have to return to a shoreline aquatic lifestyle or to the Coral Highlands, really makes me wonder what a Coral Vaal Hazak would look like.
It's possible Vaal Hazak may actually sculpt and sustain the Vale and perpetuate it, given how it manages the effluvium. There's apparently a regular stream of flyers being overcome by the effluvium and dying (which...fits, in the real world birds are apparently incredibly susceptible to respiratory illnesses and contaminates thanks to the specialized lungs) so it's created an environment raising a constant haze of miasma and effluvium (and possibly other bacteria) to keep a more or less constant supply (and sure, effluvium is more concentrated down low but there'd almost have to be trace amounts higher up). The bounty brings in other scavengers who may or may not succumb to the effluvium.
It's a bit far-fetched but Vaal may also be able to take matters into its own hands. It has several effluvium-based attacks, if it had to it may be capable of heading up to the Coral Highlands and doing a couple of them to seed Effluvium into the local wildlife. If effluvium can be contagious in certain species (like the aforesaid flyers) it could kick off a new feeding cycle for itself.
I haven't played World, but if the Elder's Crossing is a regular thing, I suspect that the Rotten Vale will receive a steady supply of dead meat for the effluvium to feast on.
@@JanusHoW regular but not consistent. i would imagine that the amount and quality would probably vary over time. In my mind a creature as reliant on this resource as Val Hazak is would probably have some kind of way to deal with lower effluvium and meat levels. Possibly through some kind of low energy torpor or hibernation.
This is probably true as the reason you find Val Hazak is because of increased effluvium levels due to a recent Elder's Crossing.
So glad to see my favorite elder's turn come up! I never even considered that Vaal may have come from the ocean. The idea of VH being almost a sort of janitor to the vale is super interesting. Its like a druid in dragon form.
I absolutely love the consistency seen through your videos on explaining how elders' skin has some unique adaptations, and boy did this one deliver. Out of all monsters I wasn't expecting Vaal to have all those plausible analogs in biology, and the vestigial water based part I'm very fond of. Great video as always.
P.S. Regarding your next MH video (which I'm very hyped for btw), I have the headcannon that Nargacuga is one of these monsters in which the subspecies is the actual monster the base form is derived from, being the black Nargacuga just deeply melanistic Green individuals with a very common mutation in a similar fashion to Khezu. One would expect the green fur is a very reasonable color for an animal with Nargacuga's habitats, and the melanistic individuals would benefit from such coloration in nocturnal and/or low lightt conditions, spreading the mutation further with their success. It ties really well, at lest for me.
All of Nargacuga’s variations have camouflage as part of their design. Lucent can go invisible and Silverwind has stripes to break up its outline to make it harder to track while moving.
A coral Vaal Hazaak would be amazing! I didn't know all that about hagfish, I always thought of Yeti Crabs and their bacterial mat farms on their body near deep sea hydrothermal vents as an analogue to Vaal's effluvium symbiosis
This is an excellent analogue I missed!
Vaal Hazak after finding Effluvium: "Huh. This is great."
Correction! 17:25 Blackveil Vaal Hazak is a Variant not a Subspecies.
Not even 10 minutes in and we get the basics of a possible submarine subspecies: Coral Vaal Hazak.
I love the story and ecology you gave to this monster it makes it more satisfying. Your videos also have a tendency to fill me with appreciation for monsters I never gave much thought to previously. In turn though its helped me pinpoint the negative feelings I've had towards other monsters that I couldn't quite place. Thank you for the videos!
Thank you for saying!
It’s possible that when Vaal’s coral highland dwelling predecessor grabbed prey with their jaws, they would use stinging coral to break them apart. They could have had some enzyme coating over their body that made them resistant to the stinging that was later used against the effluvium
Holy shit the idea of radiotropic fungi acting as a gut biome is one of the coolest spec bio concepts I've heard of in a while! Love that, another great video
Fantastic work as usual! I'm fascinated by Vaal Hazak's rotting theme and when contextualized with everything from hagfish to gaseous gangrene, it feels a lot more well-thought-out for an elder than I give it credit.
I look forward to seeing your thoughts on Primal S2, especially with the transition away from the prehistoric setting.
I think Vaal is really neat and would like to see it return but as a consequence of it's focus on the Rotten Vale it'll probably take a Crimson Glow route and have it's variant appear without the main species
Fine by me. blackveil could could return since it doesn't need to be in the vale but I still doubt it.
I can't help but wonder how it can interact with the Qurio in Sunbreak. I know we already have Malzeno for that, but it could be interesting if it's possible to have a subspecies of Vaal that relies on Quiros. Would it no longer need Effluvium, or would it find a way to incorporate it alongside the Quiros in order to survive in environments around Kamura or Elgado? 🤔
@@phdbot4483 I think unlike with the Magalas and the Frenzy, Effluvium and Qurio wouldn’t play well with each other. The Qurio are either going to imbalance Vaal’s internal homeostasis by draining it of Effluvium and/or introducing Effluvium to areas of the body they’re not supposed to be, or the Qurio are going to rapidly die due to the Effluvium being a flesh-eating bacterium and/or toxic shock/food poisoning from the ingestion of what is literally pure disease and its waste products. Or both could happen!
@@phdbot4483pretty sure the qurio would just die
On the note of the effluvium, i have a pet hypothesis that it produces a painkilling effect to whatever it's affecting. This could explain why monsters that are nearing the end of their life will migrate to the rotten vale, as well as be another possible explanation for the increased aggression of monsters afflicted by the effluvium.
Man these videos are always a blast. I never knew biology could be so interesting (mostly because I hated it in school due how boring I found it). I love how you make something that should just not exist seem actually plausible. Giant death plague eating zombie dragon? More like fish. It’s basically just school again but actually fun, keeps my attention, and I learn new things. Schools could learn a thing or 12 from you.
Thank you! Once you get into zoology, biology gets a lot more than interesting!
Great video and very informative. I’m noticing a trend that for many of World and Iceborne’s monsters, it seems more fitting that the subspecies/variants came first before the normal version. Also, can’t wait for the next Monster Hunter video as Nargacuga is my favorite monster from the franchise.
23:38 "YES! finally!! thank you!" someone else who saw the resemblance between Vaal Hazak and Jaw Wyvern from MH1's concept art!
though i connected the dots with Blackveil, given the colouration and growths on the head and tail.
moving on to the background of the Jaw Wyvern concept, i hope we get a forest map like that.
I love Vaal, so having something approaching a sensible origin for the species is more than I ever expected. Absolutely beautiful work. Thanks for this!
If you look at the animation when Vaal feeds, you'll notice that the Girros it's drawing the effluvium out of don't show any signs of weakness until after the effluvium leaves their bodies. While this could be caused by Vaal giving a signal that makes the effluvium consume the Girros faster (especially if some kind of "bio energy" is involved rather than real physical nutrients), it makes me think that the effluvium was more firmly integrated into the Girros than you'd expect. Like the effluvium had replaced a bunch of the Girros' cells and, the Girros was only still alive because the effluvium was inside it.
When Vaal absorbs it, you can see its body is almost formed out of the stuff. I think something really unusual is going on with the effluvium. More unusual than just a farmer cultivating bacteria. I think the effluvium is acting sort of like a parasite. Not just feeding on the creatures of the Vale, but merging with them.
And the immediate parallels this brings to mind is Malzeno and the Qurio.
I suspect the effluvium is a much bigger part of Vaal Hazak than just the bacteria it farms to feed upon. To the point that theres a very real possibility that Vaal Hazak *is* effluvium, and the dragon is just something its using.
EDIT: The other thing this brings to mind, and especially the subject of "bio energy" is the way parasites were used in Metal Gear Solid V. The idea of a parasitic organism enhancing its hosts is a fun one, as is the idea that behaviours or developments in the hosts are actually caused by the parasites and for the benefit of those parasites rather than the host primarily. Bio energy could be a living organism rather than a type of radiation. And effluvium could be a species derived from that older bio energy organism. What with its ability to inhabit other living things and consume/enhance them.
The girros only dying when the effluvium leaves their bodies is likely just an artistic touch, but I like the idea that the effluvium is a subspecies of bio-energy a lot, even if its a very contrived idea. The idea that bio-energy is a type of parasitic bacteria is a pretty massive reach, but its a reach I enjoy.
Vaal Hazak is one of the most interesting monsters in the entire series. At its face, the Corpse Dragon looks to be absolutely nightmarish, like a literal zombie. Which makes it all the more surprising to find out that it's honestly one of the most reasonable Elder designs in MH history. It's a stroke of genius, which makes it all the more sad that the community doesn't seem to love it, due to its (admittedly) lackluster fight. Vaal and Namielle are my favorite hexapodal Elders though, so I hope to see them truly realized in MH6.
in the theory that vaal was originally an aquatic beast. i suggest it might have been primarily a filter feeder sustaining its self on phytoplankton and other such organisms similar in size to the effluvium. the very special design of its jaw might have been used as a way to catch live prey when the phytoplankton was not plentiful enough to sustain it. being more of an ambush predator in the depths making better use of its sedentary nature
On the topic of Vaals origin, the whole skin eating explanation actually helps me with placing Vaal on the tree. Before I wasn't sure what to make of its wings. Did it have a flying ancestor? But after this I feel more confortable placing it among other more primitive wingless elders, sinc now I can imagine the wings evolved as an adaptation to nutrient absortion. With the front and back limbs being enough for support, its middle pair just became large nutrient nets.
Or just the wings athropied over time because it spends most of its time on the ground or buried in corpse matter and repurposed it.
The funny part is that Vaal still can fly. Most obviously when you mount it, vaal takes a flight.
@@EnraiChannel Ah, thankf for clarifying, I didn't know. Bit weird seeing how its wings are structured, but inteeresting nontheless.
Vaal is one of my favorite elders of all time. His roar, his music and his gimmick are just what I wanted from a "Lich" monster, better executed than Nakarkos in my opinion.
Heavily agreed
Babe wake up Unnatural History Channel uploaded
Been binging this channel, it's something I always wanted. Thank you for making these.
I really think this one is one of the best as far as sleuthing out am elders origins and biology. I loved this! So hoping for more!
Great video again as always.
Vaal hazak is a fantastic monster. But one key detail I’ve noticed that may support the marine lifestyle it may have had is that Vaal hazak can be seen wallowing through large bodies of acid found in the vale when transitioning through areas. This could be linked to a costal ancestry.
Not to mention that some of Vaal hazak’s weapons have title of “leviathan” which *could* ( using could a bit loosely here) imply that some of the locals in astera mistook Vaal hazak for leviathan
Very excited to see you cover primal season 2.
Good day sir
Vaal Hazak was my favorite new elder dragon in monster hunter world. Black veil both horrified me, and compelled me to get a closer look. I love your aquatic origins for vaal since geographically if creatures in the coral highlands are from shallow waters, creatures in the rotten veil are from deep water. I believe the bioenergy concept isn't a new mechanic to mhw, but has always been around in previous games. I think the bio energy gives monsters their elemental abilities as well as promotes rapid adaptation to environmental stresses. I also believe that bio energy attempts to reach a maximum power state like how elements in our world try to reach a stable state with more electrons in their outer shells. I know bio energy is the most magic like concept in monster hunter, but by thinking of it as an innate energy source in every atom of that universe, then it becomes less silly. Regardless, I love you're videos, and can't wait for more.
Glad to see Vaal Hazak covered. Since seeing it in World its easily become my favorite Elder Dragon, even if the folk I'd play with would gripe about having to deal with the Effluvia due to not wanting to give up decoration slots/their charm for resistance.
Yes! probably the video I had the most anticipation for.
About aquatic elders, the Rise storm serpents may have aquatic ancestors. They also have the double jaws to help swallowing in air (although it could also be related to their mating that we got to see). The electric ablities of the females could have similar origins to that of some eels now instead used for flight.
This is officially canon, as far as I'm concerned. I doubt Capcom will go very far in trying to explain Vaal anyway. Also, is that thumbnail a nod to Rime of the Ancient Mariner (by Coleridge)? If so, well done! That's the whole reason I watched.
Excellent video!
Well caught, and thank you!
I do like how Vaal is the local controller of the flesh eating bacteria not allowing it to grow out of control but makeing sure it stays up at a nice level for feeding.
A fungus gut theory for elder dragons eh? Interesting......
Fulgur Anjanath could be surviving by creating a repulsive charge which, while weak at a macro scale, is more than strong enough to repel microscopic particulates.
Could also be imparting a charge to the particulate, causing them to clump together and become too heavy to stay aloft.
Tigrex can always just fly out.
I think Banbaro is on banborrowed time.
Vaal also has burrower claws on its forelegs, to better dig through its mound of carrion. It may be a distant relative of Gaismagorm, with both having those claws and weird vestigial jaws.
great work UHC at making an elder dragon biology sound plausible; i'm extremely eager to see the day you will try to tackle my beloved shara ishvalda!
I've always thought that vaal hazak's mouth and teeth reminded me of the mouth of a fish like trout or eel, sometimes the idea that it has an aquatic ancestor is interesting.
You got a new sub from me. I was really thinking about starting a similar game channel but well....way less educated. Great content, I hope your channel continues to grow.
Much appreciated!
Ooh boy, Narga's next. I'm curious if you plan on touching on Barioth in that video too- the two have such similar skeletons, animations, and apparent ecological niches that I can't help but think they're more closely related than simply being in the same taxonomic class.
The idea that vaal hazak balances out the ecosystem within the vale might be another reason why nergigante does not go after it.
From a story perspective, nergigante mostly hunts elders and is suggested to be an balancing force when it comes to the disruption these elders bring.
From a biological stand point, the effluvium would probably wreak havoc on the epidermis of nergigante and disrupt the generation of the keratin spikes that nergigante produces.
On a side note, nergigante would likely be covered in small wounds from the continue's generation of its spikes alone (disregarding elders recess being a really spiky biome and its heavy brawling style of fighting/hunting), the small cuts and wounds would create incredibly easy points to enter the bloodstream of nergigante which would lead to a quick onset of blood poisoning/sepsis.
This is probably my favorite “documentary” of yours so far
This is so awesome, I love watching your videos. My brother actually really wants you to analyze Gammoth and Tigrex.
Someday!
Excellent video, as always.
Vaal has always been interesting to me. With it having such a significant role in the Vale's ecosystem, and that being such a vulnerable one itself, I always felt hunting it was one of the worst things the research commission had done since arriving at the new world
I really hope you know that you make amazing videos. Working on fixing my attention span lmao and these videos are like rehabilitation
The second I saw the thumbnail I thought of the boat from the mock-documentary Chased By Sea Monsters! Fantastic video!
Banbaro being an invader and generally widespread is still so bizarre. I did take note you didn't even bother to touch on it in particular.
I already liked Vaal Hazak a lot and all of this added to my appreciation. I waited to watch until I fought him in the game and I'm definitely not disappointed!
YAY! another Elder dragon video!
this is my favourite video of yours so far
I've been waiting for this one.
One of my favorites probably top 10.
OMG I'M SO EXCITED FOR THE NARGA VID.
I love the panthera genus and seeing Narga was love at first sight. Though it may not appear felid in face value, its behavior and ecology reflect on it so much.
Loved this. I didn't realize Vaal fed like that before.
Ah, REALLY looking forward to your next monster hunter. I've been waiting to hear your analysis on it most of all...outside of Goss of course.
Honestly, I can't imagine being a scientist dedicated to studying hagfishes because it seems like every year or so you'd have to go "it can do **what**?"
Nice video!
The sea origin is not a bad theory i my opinion .
But i (and a few others) had a similar one. It is just as obscure in details and full of speculation
Vaal being a distant or basal land dwelling offshot of the same line kushala daora originates from. The most obvous would be the silver scales which is true that both has a metallic look but daora has a whole "shell" of armour. But what if we assume that this metalic scales were the primogenitor of the armour plating, its might be a coincidence or i look more into it than i should
Secondly the body. This is the most easily debunkable statement because a lot of monster use the same skeletons. But the thing is that the world model of kushala has a different wing design than all the other iterations of it. It no longer has the well....whatever wing design it has. Now it has the same three close "fingers" and an "elbow" spike design similar to Vaal.
Thirdly, wind manipulation vaal has the ability to compress the effluvioum on its body, and release it en masse or suck it back. My theory that it has a similar yet more primitive wind manipulation organ. Its not as powerful to generate winds that can throw humans like paper bags or barf tornadoes at you (but it would be cool if there were an ability that generates an effluvium tornado circle). But it certainly come handy controlling the effluvium. And i think this ability (with a little boost from the elders odd biology) helped the pre vale vaal hazaks to start symbiosis with it.
My theory for the origins of the vaal hazaks they were ground living scavengers or moray eel like ambush predators that were relatively weak ( in the elder spectrum) with a bunch of flashy defense mechanism like using its atrophied wings and forward facing hook like spikes with its limited wind controll to scare off threats. When the rotten vale appeared they somehow either being the residents of whatever was before the vale or simply migrated to there. Then they come into contact with the effluvium and with time using their wind control to utilize the effluvium as a means to an end. With later on repurpousing their hook like spikes and wings to attach corpses to themselves and start cultivating their effluvium.
Vaal is by far my favorite elder dragon they've come up with. I do absolutely agree with the idea of Vaal being an aquatic species that migrated inland. I think where our views differ is in our interpretation of how he found himself in the Rotten Vale. The Elder Crossing has been going on forever as far as we are told, but it is only recently, relatively speaking, that the rate of Elders coming to die has increased to feed the growth of Xeno. I firmly believe that it was the increasing rate of the Elder Crossing drawing in more creatures to die that resulted in the massive pileup of corpses which perhaps prior was more spread out and less dense. One good sized mountain dragon like the Dalamadur skeleton we can see in the Vale every hundred years would probably have been the status quo until recently, causing the coral highlands and the Elder's Recess to thrive in bioenergy. Seeing a biome which Vaal may have only partially been adapting to as a passive food source, supplemented by feeding in tidal areas suddenly become engorged with rotten flesh and other creatures it would be an excellent time to just fully commit to the environment, dig into the latest mountain dragon's rotting corpse and enjoy that passive effluvium dining.
Correction UHC, Blackveil Vaal Hazak is not a subspecies, but a varient of Vaal.
School may be important, but the ecology of Monster Hunter Monsters is more important.
great video as always, cant wait for the next one
I love Vaal Hazak! He is my favorite elder dragon from World! Thanks for doing this guy!
I've never played a Monster Hunter game, but I can't help appreciate how much thought they put into their monster designs. The cutscene showing Vaal emerge reminded me of the Sewer Dragon from the first Dark Souls game. And at the same time, the way this "effluvium" flowed from other monsters reminded me of filter feeder animals, like a blue whale for example, just taken to a supernatural level in Vaal. In any case, very interesting breakdown of this monster.
A Vaal subspecies or variant that still lives in the highlands and uses coral as a means of sustenance and armor would be interesting
Don't know about thoughts of Capcom about exactly aquatic evolutionary origin, but it's general conceptual origin is 100% connected with the deep sea, because it's the whole point of Coral Highlands and Rotten Vale.
It's a physical metaphor on the ocean: coral reefs with parrot fish Raphinos, barracuda-like swift Legiana, ball fish Paolumu and i-don't-know-why-Tzitzi-is-there in the higher parts and dead ocean floor with corpses and myriads of decomposers (effluvium), Great Girroses with trilobite-like gills, nearly blind "i'm the flesh eater" somewhat predatory eel-like (murena?) Odogaron and elder chauliodus himself - Vaal Hazak.
Cant wait to see the nargacuga video! One of my favourite monsters in the game
I cannot wait to get a Neopteron video in the future- hopefully sooner rather than later.
Granted, there's just so many other monsters in Monster Hunter that it'd probably take a while, but I can muster all the patience I need to see these strange insects get a spec-bio once-over.
I have loved Val since I saw it and this just makes it even better
it has been suggested that the coral highlands was a regular reef that was blown out of the water by an exploding zorah magdoros, which also caused the rotten vale to form, so it does support vaal hazak being ancestrally aquatic.
But a question I have is if vaal hazak may be a distant relative of malzeno, as they both seem to rely on an external source to begin digestion, with malzeno relying on qurio and vaal relying on bacteria
the veil if you look at the map is a dead dalamadur
the acid in the lower levels is the same blue acid it spit at players
this has been a thing players have been talking about since world dropped
the bones in the upper veil are its upper skeleton left over as the meat rotting slowly thanks to gravity worked its way lower to the area it died in
The issue is that Malzeno doesnt need an external source
It just had the perfect resiliance to the qurio poison so it became a host.
I'm now sold on the idea of an underwater hunt against an aquatic, algae-covered Vaal Hazak ancestor species.
bro, if Capcom really didn't intend on Vaal having an aquatic origin, I'm willing to bet once they see this they're gonna go along with it. This makes so much sense biologically that they wouldn't even need to retcon it, they'd just need to go "yeah that makes sense. This is canon now."
I love the bits about the Coral Highlands and Rotten Vale that you've gone over recently. Do you think you'll ever make videos about other unique locales in the series, or are you going to stick to monsters for now?
I like bioenergy as a story element.
Vaal Hazak is such an interesting design for an Elder Dragon, and it felt like a very clever use of an otherwise highly toxic environment.
I hope UHC covers Nakarkos or some Sunbreak monsters this month. It's the spooky season, we've gotta do videos on some seasonal monsters!
Vaal is actually one of my favorite dragons. I fell in love with it when I saw this corpse dragon looking monsti rise from a mound of meat and while I acknowledge the fight is really easy, I am still sad base Vaal never got an MR upgrade. Blackviel never got me like normal but I love the fact its behavior changes whenever the fungus over the face it broken or regrows
Great vid for the spooky season!
Really loved that point on how vaal could showcase a precursor species of other elder dragons due to the skin dynamics. Leads me to wonder how all the other monsters looked like before the hunters meet them.
One of my favorite monsters of the Monster Hunter franchise. I hope it makes a return in one form or another.
My favorite monster!! Such a wonderful thing to see in my sub box :D so excited to watch!!!
Edit: just finished! A lot of the things i like about vaal hazak are because of how fishy he looks. But somethings thats always confused me are the glowing eyespots. Its very viperfish/flashlight fish esque, but i doubt that they use them for communication like those fish do. Much less as a lure for prey seeing as how he can suck effluvium from a ways away as seen in his intro cutscene. And it doesnt feel right to say its just a leftover from a past evolutionary stage because of how the lightspots presumably work (bacteria colonies, likely the same as most bioluminescing fish). Maybe its used as a mating display? Now thats a funny mental image.
Anyway, its one of those things that doesnt really make sense given the context of the monster. But it sure looks cool!
one thing brought up in the uhc discord is that vaal hazak coating itself in the dead is aided with various hooks on it's body, like the ones on some crabs that decorate themselves.
I really like the suggestion that Val Hazak represents not just a formerly semi-aquatic or aquatic animal, but also points toward elder dragons originating from the sea. the idea that elder dragons with their extremophile tendencies, six limbed body plans, and bizarre abilities are also the descendent of some bizarre deep sea animal is really interesting. Another one of those ideas that makes me wish Capcom would A) put a little more thought into the evolutionary origin of their monster, and B) would find a way to bring back water combat so we can see more fully aquatic monsters. I'd really love to fight a Val Hazak variant or close relative that's still growing coral, or a relative that leans much more into the eel morphology while retaining the elder dragon body plan.
A few thoughts-
Most of the Vale's effluvium-resistant migrants are either brute wyverns or mostly-flightless flying wyverns. While the high metabolisms of flying animals (e.g canaries) can make them very vulnerable to poisonous gases, the complex bird-like lung- ancestrally found in birds and crocodiles, and also seen in certain other reptiles such as monitor lizards- may have resisted the effects of toxicity during the Permian mass extinction in a way that a simple, bag-like amphibian/mammal lung could not. It's possible that the more efficient lungs of these animals help stave off effluvium poisoning, while a more mammal-like animal such as Rajang or Zinogre would suffocate if not specifically adapted (e.g Odogaron's dragon-element or long-term endemicity).
While the indirect nature of Vaal Hazaak's feeding may seem odd, it's actually surprisingly common! For example, leaf-cutter ants are obligate fungus-feeders that can't eat leaves without having it be converted into fungus in special gardens within their nests, and many herbivores such as cows are unable to digest cellulose without bacteria contained within the gut. One reason why this may be done is because breaking down tough substances such as cellulose and chitin is difficult and energetically-expensive, and results mostly in basic carbohydrates; feeding them to another organism first lets them offload the evolutionary and energetic burden for the enzymes needed, and helps use some of those carbohydrates to create lipids and amino acids instead. So perhaps Vaal Hazaak was ancestrally a herbivore, using its fungus to feed on plant detritus, with its observed habit of indirect carnivory either being opportunistic or as a response to a changed environment (via the Vale or via Rathalos)?
i theorize that there is a additional structure present in all elder dragons that lets them covert odd sources into usable ATP as well as there special ability . like vals effluvium or whatever it is that turns base chems into bio-gunpowder in teostra
Great video and I love your theories with these monsters. Have you considered doing these sort of videos on the environments/biomes of monster hunter like the Rotton Veil or Coral Highlands?