As an EndeavourOS user, who is likely going to stay in place for the time being.... Congrats on finding your new element and sticking to it, part of the way you win over the computer instead of the computer winning over you.
nice another eos user :) I love eos too but I really wanna try fedora myself and I'm also going to work on a custom repo for fedora for a load of custom i3 packages :) it will also be good for me to play with fedora as some of my custom scripts I have only ran on arch base and would be good to have them working other places too :)
Dnf is slow because its written in python that uses python to real a SQLite database. Also dnf uses parallel downloads by default (on workstation), it's just set to 3. Also DONT USE fastestmirror=true it will actually slow dnf down in the long run as dnf does optimize overtime to always sync with the most consistently performant mirror. Enabling fastest=true mean it will always check all mirrors. The next big release of dnf is getting several parts rewritten in C to improve speed. As for setting persistency, lookup wireplumber docs, it respects XDG standards so you should have a .config/wireplumber folder. Now for i3, don't use the i3 logout script, use a tool like wlogout
Nah. Wrong. The python is a fast and thin layer on top of libdnf which is C/C++. Python is not the reason why dnf is slow. Core parts are written in C already and there is also microdnf purely in C available yet it is still quite slow too. If rewriting it entirely in C would help, then it would have been done years ago. The actual problem is the DNF metadata format and network and amount of data that needs to be transferred. Metadata is a mixture of XML and sqlite3, and this is very inefficient to download and parse, even when compressed. Full metadata is a huge download of several tens of megabytes for large repositories. Main reason for slowness is that bloated metadata format. It is not easy to change it, because there are many tools out there which expect the old metadata format. Hopefully it happens sometime. The core of dnf is entirely written in C, only the CLI interface and tools are in Python. Heavy operations like dependency resolution is fast. There is also the microdnf project, a rewrite of basic features of dnf in C. It is a bit faster, but when it comes to network it is as slow as your network connection is. The main problem is, as I said, the Metadata format. Multiple sqlite3 queries across multiple databases (one per repo). Another issue is that DNF uses "deltarpm" by default. This means that package updates does delta patching by default, which uses a lot of CPU and RAM. It reduces network transfer sizes though and usually shortens installation times, so you should keep it enabled. They have configured it to only use deltas if it saves enough time to be worth doing.
a lot of people say you can't do X, to help the other person stick to it and prove them wrong, i do this a lot, that is what it means to be friends, you help each other, no matter if the other person don't see it. so just think of it this way, if they truly is your friends they don't want to hurt you Matt
Glad to hear you're having a good time with Fedora. Honestly, if I wasn't so happy with Arch I would probably still be using it, I just had a bad experience once where the upgrade from 13 to 14 (I think that was around the time they switched from upstart to systemd) and it just absolutely fucked my system up (like, my laptop just wouldn't run even with a clean F14 install). I'd say, and I think I've commented it before, that the best part of Fedora for me was how approachable the community was. I asked some pretty stupid (in retrospect) questions and the people were just so helpful; I wouldn't be half as confident with Linux in general if it weren't for those first few years on the Fedora forums.
💯 You make some very good points. Updating Arch is always a bit of a worry and you highlight the only linux distro I have not really focused on over the years...I might have to take another look at Fedora....thanks.
I'm glad you've found your niche (until the next time, I suppose 😃). I'm firmly in Manjaro at the moment. I installed the KDE spin of Fedora, on a VM just to see, and I'm not totally happy with it - one of the things I rally like about KDE is the ability to restore the desktop to what it was when you left, and it doesn't work under Fedora. Fortunately this is Linux and nobody is forcing me to stay on it, so Manjaro all the way (I started with Slack, went to SUSE, went to Kubuntu, and now on Manjaro (as I said)). Thanks for the content.
It happened! You have let fedora into your heart and it will never leave! In all seriousness I did the same switch and I am glad you are enjoying fedora as much as I am.
Hey Matt, have you enabled RPM Fusion support? Fedora repos + RPM Fusion + Flathub = a very AUR-like experience. I'm very much enjoying Fedora 36 Cinnamon on my ancient T530 ThinkPad! Perfect video dude. Very watchable right to the end. Cheers.
As someone whose used Linux since Ubuntu 7.04 back in the day….will have to say that I officially moved to fedora and love it. Definitely a good OS for daily use since everything just works.
Using Fedora 39 Budgie & XFCE versions are my favourite. Agree with your comments on the Arch updates and Fedora's out of the box goodness. Even firewall-d and network printers are configured. Dnfdragora for GUI package management cannot touch synaptic or bauh , but they are always improving this distribution. Clear Linux is more efficient with memory and Unbuntu is an easy use system. Fedora is a nice blend of evolving innovation and reliability.
Happy to hear you're happy. As an ex Arch user (and I still feel like a traitor😆) I moved to mxlinux with i3 for similar reasons. The stability from Debian stable with MX repos, backports and flatpaks all integrated in one software experience. Since I run old and slow hardware I am wary of wayland. Thank you for the video. Might put it into a vm and check it out.
@@littlecaptin_yt7357 That all depends what you want out of your distro. I moved because of the very same reasons Matt explained in his video. If you do want to move away from arch you can do a lot worse than MX. Give it a shot.
The logout problem is across the board on Fedora. We've all learned to reboot instead of logging out, but it is a bug that Fedora seems to be ignoring.
I recently started using fedora I three on my Lenovo X120 and I am a really loving it I might transfer this to my full desktop and wipe my million year old Manjaro install and I use arch on my Pinephone pro
I'm glad when it comes to picking what distribution you want to use there's plenty of great choices for all users. Fedora 36 pushed me over the to try it out and it's better than anticipated.
I used to use Fedora a few years ago, and it worked absolutely fine. However I now run Debian 11 with XMonad . The main reason I changed to Debian was that I got fed up with the fact that Fedora brings out a new version every six months, and I got fed up doing upgrades regularly. There is an automatic means of performing upgrades, but I found this did not always work properly. Perhaps things are better now, so maybe I will give it another try sometime, perhaps on a virtual machine at first.
Thanks for your opinion. Can you check out the Nobara Project and RisiOS (both based on Fedora) and give us your thoughts. Both sound pretty interesting and could be easier for beginners
I am still convinced that Fedora Silverblue is the future for Linux Desktop users, with a immutable base operating system, and Flatpak's for most user applications.
If that's the case I go to a real GNU/Linux distro if God forbid that Soyware takes over everything I go to BSD. Alltough the proper GNU/Linux version of Fedora(Workstation and Spins) is one of my favorite distros.
Regarding remembering PipeWire output: It does that by default, for most of the reliable devices such as HDMI out, built-in sound cards, etc. But you mentioned an external DAC which might not be available during boot, which could explain why it defaults to another device. You can probably create a WirePlumber config to make it prefer a specific output. You can find an answer for sure. :)
Do you think that Dell and HP would give the option to have Fedora preinstalled? They already have contracts with Redhat. In fact some Dell computers have RHEL preinstalled. Might be possible with enough noise.
DNF is a bit slow maybe but if you update only a few times a week, it's really not that bad. I do love the fact that it always show you the details and ask for permission before installing anything.
The pipewire thing is odd... I set my default device in the gnome settings window and it remembers everything just fine. 36 did brake my display settings, but that's gone away with 37
On the Arch Wiki I found out how to use different WM's (or DE's) with the same .xinitrc file. Works great on the Fedora i3 spin and on my Void install. The Fedora i3 uses lightdm and the logout worked, but I prefer using startx.
Yeah display managers, barring KDE's, mostly suck... The configuration schemes at least, are a PITA to navigate. Plus with a shell profile trick you can treat the TTY like a display manager without anything other than xinit to get the job done.
your videos are awesome.. never seen so many people that expresses their opinions such a genuine way. you always point out the ideas that matter. you deserve more views.. wayland and pipewire needs to be complete. nvidia should pay attention more to Linux I understand supporting Linux doesn't make that much of an income to them. so the progress is slow. actually the whole open source application development is slow (not development tools). I understand the reason but it's what it is. there is always going to be an commercial software that's more usable for large masses. so the question is whether those companies decide to support Linux or not. Microsoft is a big company and will be used by large masses for sure. but at least Linux should be used by 5 to 10 percent. that way it can be a real alternative for everyone. Linux will be the best of windows and Mac os in the future for sure
Yeah fedora can do btrfs properly ONLY when you do complete automatic defaults. If u click anything else because for example u want slightly larger partition or maybe a separate home it breaks it to shit creating just generic ass partitions with no possibility of fixing or using timeshift. While dnf is slower in general it downloads way more data because it only downloads the difference between packages. Figuring out that difference takes time too.
Matt when you build things do you create RPM's for them so you can use on multiple systems and only need to build it once. it's also good for if you ever need to reformat and wanna install back to the stage you were faster :)
Memes aside, Fedora is incredibly polished thanks to being created by Red Hat, the largest enterprise Linux company. Fedora/RedHat contributes 2x as many commits as ALL OTHER DISTROS COMBINED to the GNOME project, for example!
Fedora also gives you peace of mind. They have the strictest update requirements of all distros: Every proposed change must go through discussions, and a backwards-compatible proposal must be written, and it is all documented in their Changes wiki. You can relax and update whenever you want since they ensured that your distro upgrades and packages will automatically upgrade your old system configs. There is no stress, and no need to reinstall the OS. It just works. This is actually why Linus Torvalds chose it. He said he wants a stable system so he can focus on work.
10:00 in the video sums it up well: "For the most part, I have never had this good of an experience on Linux out of the box... It is astonishingly stable, like a well-oiled machine." It's the beauty of polished and super stable defaults and a vanilla experience, which also makes it easy to tweak it the way you want it, instead of having to undo a ton of weird distro tweaks first. It also helps that "dnf" uses the libzypp resolver to ensure that you can't break package dependencies. So you are able to experiment without fear.
I was so annoyed running "pacman -Syu" everyday, that I quit Arch. Fedora is the best but I prefer PopOS. My only problem with Fedora is that it still feels "experimental" and some features like bluetooth connectivity bug me out. Also, I use a dual monitor set up and Fedora Gnome for some reason doesn't have a "extended screen" option. However, I never felt DNF to be a slow package manager. But of all the Linux Distros I have every used, Fedora and Pop OS stand out as clear favs. Manjaro being the next best.
I love popos but pipewire is baked in now and can't be removed, which is a problem for me because pipewire still can't achieve real time monitoring. In pulse with Jack 2 I can monitor with 2-3 ms of latency, the minimum on pipewire is around 50.
Hi Thank you for your channel. I just wonder when i was installing Fedora with BTRFS in the early days of Fedora 36 the BTRFS subvolumes created during the installation was not recognized by timeshift. It didn't seem to create the @root subvolume. Is this not the case anymore?
I don’t know about Fedora, but some distros name the root subvolume as just ‘@‘, which is what I think - but I’m not sure - Timeshift expects it to be.
@@emanuelsolsjo7348 No worries. I *have* heard of distros that use '@root' (and not '@') for the root subvolume, so it's always a good idea to know the subvolume layout and naming scheme your distro uses.
I've been trying Fedora alongside you. (Cinnamon) It quickly became my favorite distro, though gaming is pretty lousy for me. I might have to install windows for gaming and Fedora for everything else.
What do you play? Fedora is being the easiest Linux Gaming experience for me until now. Basically you can't play some multiplayer games because of anticheat compatibility, but almost everything else seems to work for me, even with wayland.
@@franciscosiqueira5596 I agree. NVIDIA, GNOME 42, Wayland, driver 515.57, RTX3090, and Steam + Bottles. I play literally every game I throw at it. Hundreds of games. As for Nobara, I think it is good to have a gaming focused fork, since its good ideas can come back upstream. But I would never use Nobara itself. It is maintained by ONE guy. Talk about risky. Fedora Workstation is perfect for gaming for me already. I don't need Nobara to hold my hand to install NVIDIA drivers and gamemode/gamescope lol. As for custom kernels, I would never do it. Fedora packages are all built for the ABI of the default Fedora kernel. Drivers (kernel modules) in particular can break if you replace their real kernel.
@@franciscosiqueira5596 Yeah Lutris is good too. I use it for 1 game (Final Fantasy 14) because it's hell to set up manually. But all other games work perfectly in Steam and Bottles. I use the GE version of Proton in Steam, and the GE version of Wine in Bottles. :)
Whoever said you won't be able to use Fedora or something like that must have been joking. Fedora is a pretty nice distro. However, I don't use it on a day to basis for only one reason... number of packages. For this only reason, my day to day distro has to be one with either PPA or AUR. That's the only criteria. I know Fedora has copr repos, but to me they are not able to replace AUR/PPAs. I do try out a lot of distros just for fun though. Someday if flatpaks replace native packages on distros, then PPAs or AURs will probably not matter much anymore.
Everybody used Windows before at some point of their lives, so why wouldn't anyone endure Fedora? In my opinion, if you endured MS_Win, you can endure any OS.
35 was nice. 36 broke a couple things for me. 37 gets a LOT right. Needless to say ever since I switched to Fedora I no longer dread OS upgrades. Even on 35, pretty much nothing rubbed me the wrong way. I'd used ubuntu and Mint before and both kinda turned me away from Debian derivatives. I have a friend who, to this day, swears by ubuntu 18.04 and flat out refuses to update his kernel out of paranoia... yeh, make that make sense lol Oh, and it doubled my battery life. I assume that's because when you're not asking it to do anything it does precisely nothing.
I tried Fedora and also found it appealing. I then ran both Fedora and Arch, using whichever of them that was the path of least resistance. I use Wayland and Pipewire on both as well as Gnome. Over time I have myself only using Fedora infrequently. The two main reasons are that pacman and yay for the AUR are so much superior to dnf and the documentation (arch wiki). I often needed to use the arch wiki for Fedora.
DNF might be "slow", but it's *robust* I've yet to have to ask it to do anything special. Unlike apt, which seems to come broken out of the box and get worse with use.
i tried Fedora for a small period of time but uninstalled it for a problem with OBS. It kept freezing in 'sound properties' every time i tried to change the sound input or output. The problem existed in any version of OBS i tried ..
GNOME 40+ (Fedora 35 and 36) was really the turning point where Linux desktops became slick and cool. I can't wait for GNOME 43 (Fedora 37) to see what other beautiful upgrades we get! 😊
Now I would never say that about you not staying for more than a week, Zaney on the other hand Yes I would Matt... Lol Lol Lol Sounds like a lot of good experiences to be sure and congrats! To be honest I don't use the AUR all that much either, with that said there are a few things and I down't always install them anymore. Funny your should have that save issue too. I'm having the same issue saving Images from the web in Chrome and Brave on all of my computers and when I want to "save image as" it starts searching like you said... It even does it on new installs with me not logging into my account. It is only on Arch, MX an Debian and Mint are fine. I just save what ever the name is in a tmp folder and go get it from there and then rename it... :-( You keep have a great time in Fedora I may have to give it a test too... :-) Thanks Matt! LLAP 🖖
Is steam os for the steam deck really arch Linux or it's like Google android ? Do I continue my reservation since I want an portable switch like game system
It is Arch linux, but it's also different because the updates are controlled by Valve. So you won't have a ton of them, at least not like you would if you were getting vanilla Arch. More like if you were on an Xbox.
@@TheLinuxCast ok is it steam normal rolling release kernal or Arch Linux lts kernel since I'm an window 10 end of life with Linux Subsystem for Linux & I don't want windows 11 computer want to learn Linux with steam os!
@@TheLinuxCast btw, my only issue with Fedora is that it's missing a packaged it87 driver for my mobo's temp sensor. That's the only aur package I will miss. The past year I had no idea what the temperature of my CPU was
Fedora 36 is awesome. Works on older hardware and is super stable. But recently I started using Solus and found it faster/more responsive than even Fedora, which is saying something. Downside is not as many packages which means using Flatpak, AppImage, Snaps.
Finally a comment with common sence haha well I see Flatpak as necessary evil and I try to use them as little as possible and I actually like Snaps more I may be a minority booth are Soyware kind of but Snaps actually solves some problems games like 0ad is best to use Snaps at least for me and Snaps feels more like real packages appear in menus directly works with dmenu and even has Wine packages like Tiberian Sun on the other hand Flatpak just feels like Soydevs want to make a inferior alternative to real packages and the site Says "the future of application distribution" while Snapcraft don't. Well in the end real tried and true packages is the best
I loved the LOOK of every ARCH distro I ried-- but hated the CONSTANT updates..... FOLKS-- latest and greatest DOES NOT MEAN BETTER... gosh- it's ridiculous
Last year I tried out Fedora and came back with your reflections as well. Worth mentioning is also the documentation, which is great to find a solution. Lack of automated snapper (in the sense of installing it right now still requires some tweaking of the fstab etc etc) had me leave after that. Looks like it will be included per Fedora 38. But this month I started a Tumbleweed return and with OpenSuse all those bases seem to covered as well. Less kernel updates stimulates FOMO, but it is remarkebly relaxing ;-) Thanks Matt
Snapper snapshots and rollbacks is a terrible idea with BTRFS. It corrupts package databases, system journal, etc. Fedora's developers have endlessly warned people not to use snapshots, because it requires very complicated volume setups to avoid system corruption. Even OpenSUSE (which has the required, complex volume layout) has recently given up and went back to the drawing board to fix their broken snapper volume layout. But maybe you already know all this since you knew that Fedora plans to support BTRFS snapshots in the future. 😊
As for Tumbleweed, it is anything but relaxing. It is a rolling distro where you are responsible for all broken config files from your old install. You have to repair configs manually. There is also an endless avalanche of packages, and you need to constantly update since the packages drop out of the mirrors after 2 WEEKS, and if you wait longer than that between your updates, then things can break. The opposite of relaxing. Furthermore, you can forget about finding software for it if it isn't on Flathub or the OBS, due to openSUSE's unpopularity.
I used OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for 6 months back in 2021. During that time, updates broke it about 5 times. But the main reason I left it was just its bad software availability due to its unpopularity.
@@MyAmazingUsername I know / knew but nevertheless still a great post, thnx! Agree with it. For me it serves as an easy system restore (private pc) but all data is bu'pped separately. And I've seen the same remarks about snapshots from the Suse devs as well. Thnx!
@@MyAmazingUsername Someone on reddit went 335 days between updates on tumbleweed without problems, his previous record was 227 days I think, I don't find software availability a problem, I think it probably has just as much software as debian or ubuntu, plus I've never had to fix broken config files.
I've tried Fedora a couple times recently. The Live installer is completely unstable... in a VM or on my hardware. I can't get past formatting drives without it crashing. Never had an issue with any other installer. I'm guessing it's Wayland related.
I tried fedora 35 a while ago, but didn't have the best experience, I had to install kodi flatpak because fedora shipped a version of python 3.10 that broke my kodi addon, then I decided to upgrade to 36 beta because it had lxqt 1.1, but the upgrade procedure failed, leaving me with a broken system, so I went back to tumbleweed, also fedora seems to pull in more dependencies than tumbleweed.
Fedora uses Zram as default, so it might be the reason why memory usage is much lower which is great, on the other side DNF being slow is unfortunately the single objectively worst thing that Fedora suffers from, there are plans to fix it on Fedora 37 or 38 I believe though but that's in 5 or 10 months from now.
Zram doesn't change how memory usage is reported. And it only uses up to a maximum of 4GB of Zram swap. So stale pages are compressed and cached in a tmpfs that can grow no larger than 4GB.
How on earth did you use 15GB of ram with regular use? Thats one hell of a bloated system, I use around 3-4GB on daily use and I think I have never seen my ram go above 6GB of usage
My blog post on Fedora. thelinuxcast.org/posts/i_love_fedora/
I use Fedora 100% of the time. On 3 systems. It's fantastic
As an EndeavourOS user, who is likely going to stay in place for the time being.... Congrats on finding your new element and sticking to it, part of the way you win over the computer instead of the computer winning over you.
nice another eos user :) I love eos too but I really wanna try fedora myself and I'm also going to work on a custom repo for fedora for a load of custom i3 packages :) it will also be good for me to play with fedora as some of my custom scripts I have only ran on arch base and would be good to have them working other places too :)
@ISCARI0T what are you? like 12
@ISCARI0T wow we have ourself a skript kiddy big words for a small boy
@ISCARI0T go on then be my guest? I'll even pay you if you get into my account lol
@@TrueWordsOfEternity use the copr system it automates packaging. Once you read the docs (rtfm) rpm packaging is very easy, easier than .deb
Dnf is slow because its written in python that uses python to real a SQLite database. Also dnf uses parallel downloads by default (on workstation), it's just set to 3. Also DONT USE fastestmirror=true it will actually slow dnf down in the long run as dnf does optimize overtime to always sync with the most consistently performant mirror. Enabling fastest=true mean it will always check all mirrors.
The next big release of dnf is getting several parts rewritten in C to improve speed.
As for setting persistency, lookup wireplumber docs, it respects XDG standards so you should have a .config/wireplumber folder.
Now for i3, don't use the i3 logout script, use a tool like wlogout
or use a dmenu power script for logout and all that jazz :)
Nah. Wrong. The python is a fast and thin layer on top of libdnf which is C/C++.
Python is not the reason why dnf is slow. Core parts are written in C already and there is also microdnf purely in C available yet it is still quite slow too.
If rewriting it entirely in C would help, then it would have been done years ago.
The actual problem is the DNF metadata format and network and amount of data that needs to be transferred. Metadata is a mixture of XML and sqlite3, and this is very inefficient to download and parse, even when compressed. Full metadata is a huge download of several tens of megabytes for large repositories.
Main reason for slowness is that bloated metadata format. It is not easy to change it, because there are many tools out there which expect the old metadata format. Hopefully it happens sometime.
The core of dnf is entirely written in C, only the CLI interface and tools are in Python. Heavy operations like dependency resolution is fast.
There is also the microdnf project, a rewrite of basic features of dnf in C. It is a bit faster, but when it comes to network it is as slow as your network connection is.
The main problem is, as I said, the Metadata format. Multiple sqlite3 queries across multiple databases (one per repo).
Another issue is that DNF uses "deltarpm" by default. This means that package updates does delta patching by default, which uses a lot of CPU and RAM. It reduces network transfer sizes though and usually shortens installation times, so you should keep it enabled. They have configured it to only use deltas if it saves enough time to be worth doing.
amazing advice with the dnf 💪
I had set it to fastestmirror and updates and downloads slowed down and I didn't know what was wrong so thanks.
a lot of people say you can't do X, to help the other person stick to it and prove them wrong, i do this a lot, that is what it means to be friends, you help each other, no matter if the other person don't see it.
so just think of it this way, if they truly is your friends they don't want to hurt you Matt
Dude you do a really good job breaking down the ups and down and you speak very clear.
Another good video thank you
Glad to hear you're having a good time with Fedora. Honestly, if I wasn't so happy with Arch I would probably still be using it, I just had a bad experience once where the upgrade from 13 to 14 (I think that was around the time they switched from upstart to systemd) and it just absolutely fucked my system up (like, my laptop just wouldn't run even with a clean F14 install).
I'd say, and I think I've commented it before, that the best part of Fedora for me was how approachable the community was. I asked some pretty stupid (in retrospect) questions and the people were just so helpful; I wouldn't be half as confident with Linux in general if it weren't for those first few years on the Fedora forums.
Welcome aboard the Fedora Train. It's a sweet ride.
A full btrf setup out of the box is one of the things I like about Garuda
Also done by OpenSUSE 💪😌
💯 You make some very good points. Updating Arch is always a bit of a worry and you highlight the only linux distro I have not really focused on over the years...I might have to take another look at Fedora....thanks.
Congratulations to you Matt for finding a new home 😇
Matt I couldn't agree with you more. I had broken my system after a week of not updating.
Thank you for the video
Dude! It's nice to see you excited about a distro. You sound happier, This is a good thing!
I'm glad you've found your niche (until the next time, I suppose 😃).
I'm firmly in Manjaro at the moment. I installed the KDE spin of Fedora, on a VM just to see, and I'm not totally happy with it - one of the things I rally like about KDE is the ability to restore the desktop to what it was when you left, and it doesn't work under Fedora. Fortunately this is Linux and nobody is forcing me to stay on it, so Manjaro all the way (I started with Slack, went to SUSE, went to Kubuntu, and now on Manjaro (as I said)).
Thanks for the content.
It happened! You have let fedora into your heart and it will never leave!
In all seriousness I did the same switch and I am glad you are enjoying fedora as much as I am.
I'm happy you are enjoying Fedora. This distribution cured my distro hopping, it's so good.
Hey Matt, have you enabled RPM Fusion support? Fedora repos + RPM Fusion + Flathub = a very AUR-like experience. I'm very much enjoying Fedora 36 Cinnamon on my ancient T530 ThinkPad! Perfect video dude. Very watchable right to the end. Cheers.
As someone whose used Linux since Ubuntu 7.04 back in the day….will have to say that I officially moved to fedora and love it. Definitely a good OS for daily use since everything just works.
Using Fedora 39 Budgie & XFCE versions are my favourite. Agree with your comments on the Arch updates and Fedora's out of the box goodness. Even firewall-d and network printers are configured. Dnfdragora for GUI package management cannot touch synaptic or bauh , but they are always improving this distribution. Clear Linux is more efficient with memory and Unbuntu is an easy use system. Fedora is a nice blend of evolving innovation and reliability.
Matt I'm glad you found a new home sweet home with fedora. Even long time users who infrequently distro hop find themselves needing to at some point.
Happy to hear you're happy. As an ex Arch user (and I still feel like a traitor😆) I moved to mxlinux with i3 for similar reasons. The stability from Debian stable with MX repos, backports and flatpaks all integrated in one software experience. Since I run old and slow hardware I am wary of wayland. Thank you for the video. Might put it into a vm and check it out.
I found Wayland works great on low end hardware.
@@nevoyu I should give it a shot.
I also use arch linux, should i switch to mx linux?
@@modelkitbeginner If you have integrated Intel graphics, then Wayland is perfect.
@@littlecaptin_yt7357 That all depends what you want out of your distro. I moved because of the very same reasons Matt explained in his video. If you do want to move away from arch you can do a lot worse than MX. Give it a shot.
The logout problem is across the board on Fedora. We've all learned to reboot instead of logging out, but it is a bug that Fedora seems to be ignoring.
I have never even tried fedora, may have to try it
I recently started using fedora I three on my Lenovo X120 and I am a really loving it I might transfer this to my full desktop and wipe my million year old Manjaro install and I use arch on my Pinephone pro
Keep up the good work!!!!
I just installed Fedore with KDE plasma. Love it!
I love fedora its great I been using it for years. You don't need a update every day.
I'm glad when it comes to picking what distribution you want to use there's plenty of great choices for all users. Fedora 36 pushed me over the to try it out and it's better than anticipated.
Great os, no question. It is journey... Enjoy it, i really enjoy it.
Fedora has not enough bugs for an Arch user
🤣🤣
Specially if that arch user is on kde😂
haven't updated arch on my old laptop in months, no breakages.
I used to use Fedora a few years ago, and it worked absolutely fine. However I now run Debian 11 with XMonad . The main reason I changed to Debian was that I got fed up with the fact that Fedora brings out a new version every six months, and I got fed up doing upgrades regularly. There is an automatic means of performing upgrades, but I found this did not always work properly. Perhaps things are better now, so maybe I will give it another try sometime, perhaps on a virtual machine at first.
Once again welcome to Fedora I felt the same when I switched from arch.
Thanks for your opinion.
Can you check out the Nobara Project and RisiOS (both based on Fedora) and give us your thoughts. Both sound pretty interesting and could be easier for beginners
Yes,arguably the best distro right now
I have Pop OS, and it notifies me when there are updates, I choose when to do them--pretty much like most other Linuxes.
I am still convinced that Fedora Silverblue is the future for Linux Desktop users, with a immutable base operating system, and Flatpak's for most user applications.
Flatpaks suck.
If that's the case I go to a real GNU/Linux distro if God forbid that Soyware takes over everything I go to BSD. Alltough the proper GNU/Linux version of Fedora(Workstation and Spins) is one of my favorite distros.
Regarding remembering PipeWire output: It does that by default, for most of the reliable devices such as HDMI out, built-in sound cards, etc. But you mentioned an external DAC which might not be available during boot, which could explain why it defaults to another device. You can probably create a WirePlumber config to make it prefer a specific output. You can find an answer for sure. :)
Do you think that Dell and HP would give the option to have Fedora preinstalled? They already have contracts with Redhat. In fact some Dell computers have RHEL preinstalled. Might be possible with enough noise.
Wouldn't surprise me, Lenovo already does
fedora user here
DNF is a bit slow maybe but if you update only a few times a week, it's really not that bad.
I do love the fact that it always show you the details and ask for permission before installing anything.
It's not even that bad once you enable parallel downloading.
The pipewire thing is odd...
I set my default device in the gnome settings window and it remembers everything just fine.
36 did brake my display settings, but that's gone away with 37
I left Arch for Fedora and have had a much better time. I have had no issues, everything just works... Gaming works great too.
On the Arch Wiki I found out how to use different WM's (or DE's) with the same .xinitrc file. Works great on the Fedora i3 spin and on my Void install. The Fedora i3 uses lightdm and the logout worked, but I prefer using startx.
Yeah display managers, barring KDE's, mostly suck... The configuration schemes at least, are a PITA to navigate. Plus with a shell profile trick you can treat the TTY like a display manager without anything other than xinit to get the job done.
I did that for a while when I didn't want a display manager, I just created a case statement in my .xinitrc and it worked like a charm
Could you do a video on USBguard?!
your videos are awesome.. never seen so many people that expresses their opinions such a genuine way. you always point out the ideas that matter. you deserve more views..
wayland and pipewire needs to be complete.
nvidia should pay attention more to Linux
I understand supporting Linux doesn't make that much of an income to them. so the progress is slow. actually the whole open source application development is slow (not development tools). I understand the reason but it's what it is. there is always going to be an commercial software that's more usable for large masses. so the question is whether those companies decide to support Linux or not. Microsoft is a big company and will be used by large masses for sure. but at least Linux should be used by 5 to 10 percent. that way it can be a real alternative for everyone. Linux will be the best of windows and Mac os in the future for sure
Yeah fedora can do btrfs properly ONLY when you do complete automatic defaults. If u click anything else because for example u want slightly larger partition or maybe a separate home it breaks it to shit creating just generic ass partitions with no possibility of fixing or using timeshift. While dnf is slower in general it downloads way more data because it only downloads the difference between packages. Figuring out that difference takes time too.
I told you you would like it.
To me Fedora is up there with Ubuntu 💪😌🙏
Matt when you build things do you create RPM's for them so you can use on multiple systems and only need to build it once. it's also good for if you ever need to reformat and wanna install back to the stage you were faster :)
Fedora is the best. Anyone who claims otherwise is objectively wrong. Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, chose Fedora. Need I say more?
Memes aside, Fedora is incredibly polished thanks to being created by Red Hat, the largest enterprise Linux company. Fedora/RedHat contributes 2x as many commits as ALL OTHER DISTROS COMBINED to the GNOME project, for example!
Fedora also gives you peace of mind. They have the strictest update requirements of all distros: Every proposed change must go through discussions, and a backwards-compatible proposal must be written, and it is all documented in their Changes wiki. You can relax and update whenever you want since they ensured that your distro upgrades and packages will automatically upgrade your old system configs. There is no stress, and no need to reinstall the OS. It just works. This is actually why Linus Torvalds chose it. He said he wants a stable system so he can focus on work.
10:00 in the video sums it up well: "For the most part, I have never had this good of an experience on Linux out of the box... It is astonishingly stable, like a well-oiled machine." It's the beauty of polished and super stable defaults and a vanilla experience, which also makes it easy to tweak it the way you want it, instead of having to undo a ton of weird distro tweaks first. It also helps that "dnf" uses the libzypp resolver to ensure that you can't break package dependencies. So you are able to experiment without fear.
I love Flatpak and Silverblue. I don’t see myself going to something else for some time. :)
I was so annoyed running "pacman -Syu" everyday, that I quit Arch. Fedora is the best but I prefer PopOS. My only problem with Fedora is that it still feels "experimental" and some features like bluetooth connectivity bug me out. Also, I use a dual monitor set up and Fedora Gnome for some reason doesn't have a "extended screen" option. However, I never felt DNF to be a slow package manager. But of all the Linux Distros I have every used, Fedora and Pop OS stand out as clear favs. Manjaro being the next best.
I love popos but pipewire is baked in now and can't be removed, which is a problem for me because pipewire still can't achieve real time monitoring. In pulse with Jack 2 I can monitor with 2-3 ms of latency, the minimum on pipewire is around 50.
Hi
Thank you for your channel. I just wonder when i was installing Fedora with BTRFS in the early days of Fedora 36 the BTRFS subvolumes created during the installation was not recognized by timeshift. It didn't seem to create the @root subvolume. Is this not the case anymore?
I don’t know about Fedora, but some distros name the root subvolume as just ‘@‘, which is what I think - but I’m not sure - Timeshift expects it to be.
@@code8986 yeah sorry i meant @ not @root
@@emanuelsolsjo7348 No worries. I *have* heard of distros that use '@root' (and not '@') for the root subvolume, so it's always a good idea to know the subvolume layout and naming scheme your distro uses.
I've been using fedora for more than 6 years straight. No reinstalls just fedora straight 6 years 8 machines no bugs
Just noticed sound is sharp in fedora36.
Put it on laptop
I've been trying Fedora alongside you. (Cinnamon) It quickly became my favorite distro, though gaming is pretty lousy for me. I might have to install windows for gaming and Fedora for everything else.
You should try out the Nobara Project
What do you play? Fedora is being the easiest Linux Gaming experience for me until now. Basically you can't play some multiplayer games because of anticheat compatibility, but almost everything else seems to work for me, even with wayland.
@@franciscosiqueira5596 I agree. NVIDIA, GNOME 42, Wayland, driver 515.57, RTX3090, and Steam + Bottles. I play literally every game I throw at it. Hundreds of games.
As for Nobara, I think it is good to have a gaming focused fork, since its good ideas can come back upstream. But I would never use Nobara itself. It is maintained by ONE guy. Talk about risky.
Fedora Workstation is perfect for gaming for me already. I don't need Nobara to hold my hand to install NVIDIA drivers and gamemode/gamescope lol.
As for custom kernels, I would never do it. Fedora packages are all built for the ABI of the default Fedora kernel. Drivers (kernel modules) in particular can break if you replace their real kernel.
@@MyAmazingUsername yes, pretty similar experience here. Only use Lutris instead of Bottles. Rarely I need to do some tweaking.
@@franciscosiqueira5596 Yeah Lutris is good too. I use it for 1 game (Final Fantasy 14) because it's hell to set up manually. But all other games work perfectly in Steam and Bottles. I use the GE version of Proton in Steam, and the GE version of Wine in Bottles. :)
Yea the updates on Arch is really what killing my enjoyment of it
I still run it though as it's just set up on 3 computers here.
Whoever said you won't be able to use Fedora or something like that must have been joking. Fedora is a pretty nice distro. However, I don't use it on a day to basis for only one reason... number of packages. For this only reason, my day to day distro has to be one with either PPA or AUR. That's the only criteria. I know Fedora has copr repos, but to me they are not able to replace AUR/PPAs. I do try out a lot of distros just for fun though. Someday if flatpaks replace native packages on distros, then PPAs or AURs will probably not matter much anymore.
Everybody used Windows before at some point of their lives, so why wouldn't anyone endure Fedora? In my opinion, if you endured MS_Win, you can endure any OS.
Not to worry, that shine will fade.
You'll leave, but then you'll come back.
35 was nice. 36 broke a couple things for me. 37 gets a LOT right. Needless to say ever since I switched to Fedora I no longer dread OS upgrades.
Even on 35, pretty much nothing rubbed me the wrong way.
I'd used ubuntu and Mint before and both kinda turned me away from Debian derivatives. I have a friend who, to this day, swears by ubuntu 18.04 and flat out refuses to update his kernel out of paranoia... yeh, make that make sense lol
Oh, and it doubled my battery life. I assume that's because when you're not asking it to do anything it does precisely nothing.
I am unable to boot *new distros on old laptops* .. they just *kernel panic* or get stuck .. :(
I tried Fedora and also found it appealing. I then ran both Fedora and Arch, using whichever of them that was the path of least resistance. I use Wayland and Pipewire on both as well as Gnome. Over time I have myself only using Fedora infrequently. The two main reasons are that pacman and yay for the AUR are so much superior to dnf and the documentation (arch wiki). I often needed to use the arch wiki for Fedora.
GVM.
Do Uou use Gnome or KDE in this Fedora ??
I'm using the kde spin but I installed i3wm
Just installed Fedora 39 and it is great. Yep, DNF is slower than apt
DNF might be "slow", but it's *robust*
I've yet to have to ask it to do anything special. Unlike apt, which seems to come broken out of the box and get worse with use.
i tried Fedora for a small period of time but uninstalled it for a problem with OBS. It kept freezing in 'sound properties' every time i tried to change the sound input or output. The problem existed in any version of OBS i tried ..
I've made it for as long as Fedora 36 was released now...
GNOME 40+ (Fedora 35 and 36) was really the turning point where Linux desktops became slick and cool. I can't wait for GNOME 43 (Fedora 37) to see what other beautiful upgrades we get! 😊
Now I would never say that about you not staying for more than a week, Zaney on the other hand Yes I would Matt... Lol Lol Lol
Sounds like a lot of good experiences to be sure and congrats! To be honest I don't use the AUR all that much either, with that said there are a few things and I down't always install them anymore.
Funny your should have that save issue too. I'm having the same issue saving Images from the web in Chrome and Brave on all of my computers and when I want to "save image as" it starts searching like you said... It even does it on new installs with me not logging into my account. It is only on Arch, MX an Debian and Mint are fine. I just save what ever the name is in a tmp folder and go get it from there and then rename it... :-(
You keep have a great time in Fedora I may have to give it a test too... :-)
Thanks Matt!
LLAP 🖖
anyone ever try Mageia? It is from Mandriva which was Mandrake way back when. Its an RPM based and I have always found it really easy to use.
Is steam os for the steam deck really arch Linux or it's like Google android ? Do I continue my reservation since I want an portable switch like game system
It is Arch linux, but it's also different because the updates are controlled by Valve. So you won't have a ton of them, at least not like you would if you were getting vanilla Arch. More like if you were on an Xbox.
@@TheLinuxCast ok is it steam normal rolling release kernal or Arch Linux lts kernel since I'm an window 10 end of life with Linux Subsystem for Linux & I don't want windows 11 computer want to learn Linux with steam os!
@@christenorio9555 Agree with Hallway Raptor, SteamOS wouldn't be a great distro to learn Linux. But it might be a good one to play games.
I'm still surprised that you didn't go with MX
Hey Matt, did you install Fedora Workstation, ie incl. Gnome etc? I've installed both the i3 spin as well as the xfce one and none take auto snapshots
I started with the ws version and ended up on the KDE spin.
@@TheLinuxCast thanks for the quick reply. Weird that these spins are so inconsistent imho 😐
I love flatpaks-- easier, FASTER - and I've NEVER had an issue with them-- like the stupid snaps or appimages..
Where can I bump the file chooser issue? It is soooo annoying
I'm pretty sure, but I could be wrong, that it was on the kdenlive bug tracker. But that's been a couple weeks so I might be misremembering.
@@TheLinuxCast btw, my only issue with Fedora is that it's missing a packaged it87 driver for my mobo's temp sensor. That's the only aur package I will miss. The past year I had no idea what the temperature of my CPU was
Fedora 36 is awesome. Works on older hardware and is super stable. But recently I started using Solus and found it faster/more responsive than even Fedora, which is saying something. Downside is not as many packages which means using Flatpak, AppImage, Snaps.
Are you still on Fedora?
I like fedora. I just wish it had a cooler name. All think of is is the old tips fedora memes when I hear the name.
I couldnt get HDMI audio to work
Try rockylinux 9
Dnf 5 will come soon
I don't use flatpak at all in Fedora.
I think that's not a good way to distribute software - rpm is better for me.
Finally a comment with common sence haha well I see Flatpak as necessary evil and I try to use them as little as possible and I actually like Snaps more I may be a minority booth are Soyware kind of but Snaps actually solves some problems games like 0ad is best to use Snaps at least for me and Snaps feels more like real packages appear in menus directly works with dmenu and even has Wine packages like Tiberian Sun on the other hand Flatpak just feels like Soydevs want to make a inferior alternative to real packages and the site Says "the future of application distribution" while Snapcraft don't. Well in the end real tried and true packages is the best
There's no way you're going to make it past two centuries on Fedora!
Isnt the Arch ohilosophie something about unused RAM is wated RAM?
I loved the LOOK of every ARCH distro I ried-- but hated the CONSTANT updates..... FOLKS-- latest and greatest DOES NOT MEAN BETTER... gosh- it's ridiculous
Arch is testing software for academic purposes. You've done the work and learned enough about Linux... time to move on from Arch.
Last year I tried out Fedora and came back with your reflections as well. Worth mentioning is also the documentation, which is great to find a solution. Lack of automated snapper (in the sense of installing it right now still requires some tweaking of the fstab etc etc) had me leave after that. Looks like it will be included per Fedora 38. But this month I started a Tumbleweed return and with OpenSuse all those bases seem to covered as well. Less kernel updates stimulates FOMO, but it is remarkebly relaxing ;-) Thanks Matt
Snapper snapshots and rollbacks is a terrible idea with BTRFS. It corrupts package databases, system journal, etc. Fedora's developers have endlessly warned people not to use snapshots, because it requires very complicated volume setups to avoid system corruption. Even OpenSUSE (which has the required, complex volume layout) has recently given up and went back to the drawing board to fix their broken snapper volume layout. But maybe you already know all this since you knew that Fedora plans to support BTRFS snapshots in the future. 😊
As for Tumbleweed, it is anything but relaxing. It is a rolling distro where you are responsible for all broken config files from your old install. You have to repair configs manually.
There is also an endless avalanche of packages, and you need to constantly update since the packages drop out of the mirrors after 2 WEEKS, and if you wait longer than that between your updates, then things can break. The opposite of relaxing.
Furthermore, you can forget about finding software for it if it isn't on Flathub or the OBS, due to openSUSE's unpopularity.
I used OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for 6 months back in 2021. During that time, updates broke it about 5 times.
But the main reason I left it was just its bad software availability due to its unpopularity.
@@MyAmazingUsername I know / knew but nevertheless still a great post, thnx! Agree with it. For me it serves as an easy system restore (private pc) but all data is bu'pped separately. And I've seen the same remarks about snapshots from the Suse devs as well. Thnx!
@@MyAmazingUsername Someone on reddit went 335 days between updates on tumbleweed without problems, his previous record was 227 days I think, I don't find software availability a problem, I think it probably has just as much software as debian or ubuntu, plus I've never had to fix broken config files.
Yep- every time you fart there are 4 new updates min....
I've tried Fedora a couple times recently. The Live installer is completely unstable... in a VM or on my hardware. I can't get past formatting drives without it crashing. Never had an issue with any other installer. I'm guessing it's Wayland related.
I tried fedora 35 a while ago, but didn't have the best experience, I had to install kodi flatpak because fedora shipped a version of python 3.10 that broke my kodi addon, then I decided to upgrade to 36 beta because it had lxqt 1.1, but the upgrade procedure failed, leaving me with a broken system, so I went back to tumbleweed, also fedora seems to pull in more dependencies than tumbleweed.
Fedora uses Zram as default, so it might be the reason why memory usage is much lower which is great, on the other side DNF being slow is unfortunately the single objectively worst thing that Fedora suffers from, there are plans to fix it on Fedora 37 or 38 I believe though but that's in 5 or 10 months from now.
Zram doesn't change how memory usage is reported. And it only uses up to a maximum of 4GB of Zram swap. So stale pages are compressed and cached in a tmpfs that can grow no larger than 4GB.
One thing that make me not use fedora its zoom in and out when you want to use app or check other virtual desktop.
Hey i suggest you create some archlinux installer this may attract more view to the channel
Debian for me
Fedora is good, but dnf is slow.
Not that slow, like honestly it's not going to take more than 2-3 minutes to refresh the repos
Logo looks too much like Facebook, nope
Fedora has nothing to do with Facebook
How on earth did you use 15GB of ram with regular use? Thats one hell of a bloated system, I use around 3-4GB on daily use and I think I have never seen my ram go above 6GB of usage