A side effect of the "heroine" being pure and wearing simple, billowy white outfits is that the "demon princess" characters stand out. The wear colors, more make-up, look hotter, and they get to do more things and more interesting things. In Ashes of Love they even get spicier food to eat!
In Xianxia dramas I consistently ship the hot demon princess and the elegant male second lead (even when the former always loves the male lead, while the latter always falls for the female main character), because they have that great “bad girl vs. good boy” chemistry that’s much more interesting than the vanilla interactions between the main couple😂
@@chickwit2575 Like in Ashes of Love, I ship that feisty demon princess with Runyu, and also the hot (but evil) goddess with Runyu. Sorry I can’t remember their names. And I know Runyu is technically a villain, but he’s an elegant classy villain lol I still ship Jinmi with Runyu, mainly because Jinmi’s actress is so talented. Her acting skills make Jinmi “shippable” with literally everyone in the story. If it was a different actress, I would probably feel no chemistry between them. Another example would be Word of Honour. I ship A’Xiang and Cao Weining so damn hard. It’s a blessing that they’re actually the official couple. Usually a nice cute boy like Weining would NEVER get the girl in Chinese dramaland😂 I’m happy for him lol
Something that bothers me is when xianxia dramas or just cdramas in general have the ML and FL "fall in love" for no particular reason. Like there is no connection whatsoever or theres barely any interactions yet suddenly ML starts liking FL like ???? is this normal? 😅 Just because they are "fated" the storyboard just wants to throw them together and make them a pair. I understand being "fated lovers" but can the audience get some sort of convincing series of events with the two leads that will make us understand how each character began to spark feelings for one another?
The scriptwriters and directors assume (not entirely wrongly) that viewers want to see maximum amount of interactions between the ML and FL as quickly as possible. Hence, the tripping into each other’s arms, holding the waist, twirling while staring into each other’s eyes, accidentally kissing and touching, accidentally running into each other ALL THE TIME…It doesn’t work on me, but apparently enough people want to get sugar high from these very contrived developments. Once they ship the ML and FL, forget about the plot-seeing these two people together touching, hugging, kissing and saying sweet nothings trumps all else. Actually, why stop at the drama, they might even want to see that in real life with these actors as themselves…I once heard someone saying “I SO wish Yang Yang and Dilreba are real lovers”…
But dont you SEE all of them have the fl beeing saved by the ml from falling. And all of them have slowmo and spinn around. Thats so romantic how could you not Fall in love... I startet to drop dramas when that happends... Exept tiger and Rose. That Drama was just THAT good 😅
@@shawnyang435 You're right! I know it's all about personal preference, but I sometimes wonder what the average age range of the viewers is haha To be honest, even ten years ago, you also had people who didn't care about the quality of dramas. They're not really new. It's just that now dramas are almost exclusively catering to them. Before, there was more variety, with more well-written series each year. That's why I don't support any of the low quality dramas. They're not only a waste of time, watching them also encourages the production of more subpar dramas...
@@gianellab.4953 If idols were cast as leads, you are looking at average audience age around 15-16 yr olds, and female. Thus, everything must be easy to understand, characters good or evil, and sugar rush ASAP. Majority of these teenage audience likely have some degree of self-esteem issues so the female lead must be special somehow. Same problem for Chinese audio dramas. An audio drama trying to follow the source novel by taking time to properly set up the story and establish characters will have live comments impatiently pushing for the leads to meet, to start dating, to kiss and so on.
1. The web novels many of these dramas are adapted from are not that good to begin with. Other than the most well-known ones, web novels are usually very tropey and not well-written with very simple characters and bare-bone character arcs. The point of web novels is to provide very quick sensual stimuli in spade. There’s absolutely no nuances or moral ambiguity or anything up for debate. Wronged people are extremely wronged (the hero’s entire family is murdered), the lovers are extremely in love (they love, die, get reborn, love again, rinse, repeat), and the revenge is extremely satisfying (antagonists never win). 2. The director Feng Xiaogang once said “there are bad movies because there are bad audiences.” I used to think that’s insulting, but now I start to see his point. Fans of some actors watch absolutely ANYTHING starring their Gege and Jiejie. If you dare to criticise their idols’ dramas, they go after you as if you just insulted their mom (ironically, they often vent their anger by cursing your own mom and wishing infertility upon you). As long as they keep telling the investors of the production companies that “we will watch anything with our Gege and Jiejie in it,” we’ll keep getting bad dramas.
I very much agree with your points! If we bring in adaptations of webnovels, we have so many more factors catered to making the story mediocre. Some of which are: 1. Writers are paid by number of words - therefore, increasing padding and useless fillers. 2. Writers are often pushed by publishers and readers alike to update daily. But to update daily at several thousands of words a day means the writers rarely have time to stop and think deeper. 3. Writers of these genres are often disenfranchised by the world. Many of them didn't become a writer out of pure passion. They were let down by society or their jobs. This means they're more likely to want to write power fantasies with no moral ambiguity and where fate does all the hard work for you.
@@bloodyrose1111 Of course. We could have brilliant horror stories and political satires without censorship. I still can’t believe Netflix and the directors of Game of Thrones get to make The Three-Body Problem before we do (although Tencent is currently making one, the origin of the story, Cultural Revolution, will be expectedly cleansed). Having said that, I don’t think we can blame the cheap and boring costumes, hairstyles, makeup and heavy filters on censorship. These are just choices to minimise costs.
I disagree that the web novels aren't good to begin with. Honestly, the web novels are so much better. The female leads in web novels are usually so much smarter and stronger but once they are adapted into a drama, they dumb down the female leads. Like "The Legend." I almost spit out blood at how weak they made Zhao Yao. I do agree about the crazy fandoms. No matter how much I like an actor or actress, if their dramas are not good, I will not watch. Others people are not so much like that. I remember getting attacked from some crazy fans just because I gave a true honest reviews on my opinions of the dramas. It has nothing to do with their idols, but I got attacked and was called an anti fans. 😂🤣 Crazy.
I agree with the Aesthetics sooo much, this is why palace dramas are still watchable because the queens, emrpesses and kings have better, more lavish costumes and better palace settings which gives the viewers something to feast on. Whereas Xianxia dramas are white, bright and the costumes are pretty much the same which is boring and sometimes the leads that are casted don't have a "Godlike" Presence. They seem like children with soft and perfect faces, like War Gods should look like they have been to war; shabby, scars and able to wield a heavy weapon.
It's because in general they heal better and have different constitution than mortal. Some don't defecate because they don't need to eat, they eat "fasting pills" at the beginning but when they're higher levels they don't need to eat because they're functioning on Qi. Secondly they don't age like mortals. At some point they age slower and eventually stopped aging. Some use beauty pills, some use higher cultivation to prevent aging. They can choose how they wanna look like. Some even went and be a mountain or rivers. So unless it's like life threatening or something poisonous, cultivators are pretty spotless.
Well even in the novels war gods are described as some pretty men! Not like some general looking like a real big masculine man with scars on his face and burned skin which is the result of being in the open area most of his life. Since they're gods they heal from scars and they're supposed to look ethereal! About aesthetics even in palace dramas the outfits sometimes seems too much. Imperial women with top coats on their nails! Men go to battles and yet their hair styles and clothes are still very clean and neat. A small sized woman wears heavy war armor and can beat big men! That's the most unrelatable thing about female warriors I see in historical dramas that they don't even look like some sports woman or someone who did fighting in her life but just some zero size actress with very fair skin who has not been under the sun for 1 hour in her life! There is nothing wrong with simple outfits to me even minimalist looks can be designed well, it's only in chinese dramas that the costumes are too lavish and every woman looks like coming from a fashion runaway but even in historical k-dramas the outfits and hairstyles are more simple yet they have the audiences so it's not even an important part of the deal or in western dramas in GOT people in Westeros had this untidy dirty look to look more natural. The thing with them is more repetitive scripts.
@@cristina8868 well yes this chi was heard but welp, u can't make ppl like the same thing as u. Just because u like something doesn't mean other ppl will, too.
I hope that they do a good job with the adaptation of Tian Guan Ci Fu. It has the potential to inspire and rejuvenate the genre if done well. It has a unique and interesting love story that doesn't just involve two characters looking at each other and bickering until they randomly fall in love. And has gods that actually do work for the people who worship them! There is also plot that goes beyond just a love story that isn't just inserted for length. The book was so great and I'm trying not to have too high of expectations for the drama, but it's hard not to.
I think that’s why people like bl adaptations. First because the source material is of higher standard than the bg web novels being adapted and second because there’s a moment in them where you understand why anyone would fall in love with the leads. For example in the untamed, the ml has a new appreciation for the mc when he hears his prayer during the lantern scene. It gives the audience an actual reason to understand why xyz fell in love and not just that they look pretty like it is in bg dramas. Ashe of Love is one of the few where you see that the ml likes the fl because she’s helped him and not just because she’s pretty.
Unfortunately, I don’t see much hope in that and would rather place my bets on Immortality’s quality. The scale of the two productions are just…different. Also, the skills of the actors as well.
@@cyy8926 yeah i agree re the production. Immortality is so well cast, wheres TGCF, I've only seen a little of the actor playing Xie Lian and I was ...not impressed. The cast seem very inexperience and the costumes so far have not looked good. However, scriptwise I think 2HA is way harder to adapt in a way that will be faithful to the novel at all so I am not putting too high hopes in that one either.
@@IamaKaliedoscope Completely agree. Because China has amended the laws and has become much more stricter, a lot of the scenes are cut out from Immortality. As for TGCF, sigh don’t even wanna talk about it. It’s my favourite novel and yet…they always need to cast inexperienced people who already have fan bases such as idols and ruin the best stories 😭😭 all for the money…
@@cyy8926 the last time I see this kind of comment is when before The Untamed and Word of Honor came out, but people just shut up after that when they realized it was great. Maybe let's just wait for the drama came out first?
Haha for some reason I really fell in love with the story plot from Tian Guan Ci Fu! not because of it's BL genre but I am finally seeing a really poor god though a prince really working hard to make the world better. Even the story is rather well written in the novel and anime!
And all the gods actually have to work all the time, if it's answering their believers in dreams, doing loads of paperwork or investigating weird stuff in the human realm- they are more like officials (haha) and they have to work to stay relevant to get more merits to stay a god. Really funny that they have a kinda monetary system up there- but it makes sense because all gods are ascended humans, just like ghosts were all human once (correct if I am wrong on that one). Hmmm, so the limitation actually excludes the race-class system problems avenuex describes... never thought about that.
Really glad I'm reading something about Tian Guan Ci Fu, because I was wondering if it's Xian Xia. It's one of my absolute favorites (webnovel and animation). I really like the fact that the main character goes from prince admired by all to god to less than nothing. But I also like that the main character is never looking to get back to godhood. He never strives to get a promotion or a better rank. All he wants to do is make the world a better place.
I never realized how much different it was from the usual xian xia but then again, I don't read/watch much of the genre. Well now I know that not everything is like TGCF which is disappointing. But then again I don't like romance, more of a historical politics powerstruggle kind of gal.
If only more “straight” Xianxia were like Heaven Official’s Blessing, maybe the genre wouldn’t be so blah. TGCF has a protagonist who’s riches to rags to riches, and a love interest who was born a peasant and had to fight his way to the top of the ghost world. Plus, XL was clueless about HC’s feelings for most of the story, there was no insta-love. Let’s see more of that!
One of the things i loved about TGCF is when XL is trying to ascend for the second time and he realizes... he can't. It is very easy to not have attachments to the world when you don't have anything to worry about. He never had to worry about his parents, they were royalty. He never had to worry about his friends because he had the political power to keep them comfortable. It was a lesson in humility, and it also is a bit of worldbuilding. It explains why so many of the gods feel like rich assholes, and it is because they probably are. Those who struggle to survive in life are going to have a harder time ascending.
This video was very, very educational for those of us who only got interested in C-Dramas because of The Untamed. It’s a shame, because the Xianxia genre has a ton of potential - and it gets squandered over and over. It seems that Xianxia has become to Chinese drama what Hallmark movies are to holiday entertainment - the producers say, “Hey, this worked before, let’s just make a few minor changes and do the same thing all over again!” The audiences eat it up, but afterward are left feeling empty - while the producers count their money. Why should they bother putting out innovative material when they’re making bank? And so, the vicious cycle continues.
BL xianxia dramas>>>>>>>Hetero xianxia dramas. Hetero xianxia dramas are boring and only focus about the protagonist's love and all the obstacles and cliche plots they must go through🙄
You probably mean the stories the adapted the drama from. In the first place, the BL that they adapt are usually the most read compared to the normal xianxia dramas, in which they adapt bad novels lmao. To me however, because they adapted such a good novel like MDZS, they just ruined it for me. The drama was never up to standard to the story or even the anime. Cringy acting saved by the voice actors, really what a disappointment. The production teams will do anything to choose famous people who have no prior acting experience for the success of a drama.
@@cyy8926 um you do know that the actors weren't even remotely popular to what they are now right? also they were such a small production house back then they didn't even have the budget like all these other big production houses today and even within that budget they did such a beautiful job conveying wangxian's relationship and other character arcs despite the censorship which is another reason to hold them back to make the show upto the novel's standards(even though its still amazing however it is) the show isn't this popular amongst both local and international audiences just for nothing that its literally considered one of the most popular chinese shows till date(both bl and in general)?? its okay to say if you are a novel fan and the show wasn't upto your standards but dont just go around spreading misinformation of how they chose popular actors blah blah or disrespect the actors and production who put so much hardwork and effort into that project
OMG. Watching this again after watching LBFAD and now I realize why I found LBFAD to be refreshing. In LBFAD, Xiaolanhua needed to prove she was worthy of he power/identity by knowing the 3 realms and proving themselves to the moon tribe. The drama also pointed out that the heavenly tribe is not always the good side and that there are other perspectives too. DFQC became powerful not because he was born with it but because he had to give up his emotions in the process.
I get into the Chinese Drama world for the last 2 years... but only after around 6 months after, I'm confused about how all dramas are extremely 'TEMPLATE", the repetitive characters with repetitive backgrounds; the same story ideas with the same development; to make it worse.... the same scenes... I'm confused on why Chinese drama writers don't want to let their characters have a peasant background, like the FL in KDrama 100 Days my Prince; or the drama Warrior Baek Dong Soo.a drama in which all characters are peasants. In CDrama, they're all Prince, Princess and unimaginably rich and powerful CEO Just like you, I'm sad to see they always put the villain as a character from a lowlife background, and the reason is always jealousy... as if lowlife is not allowed to have any dream to reach the top. How tragic... But even though I am rarely able to stand to watch a whole series, mostly stop at after 2 - 20 eps, I'm still watching countless of it, and happy if I can bump into a good one
I have nearly no experience with Xian Xia and little experience with Chinese dramas in general, but I'm assuming it's like everywhere else in the world, for example western superhero/Marvel movies, romcoms, Disney remakes/sequels, mindless action movies, dumb comedies, horror movies etc. Once something makes money, they'll stick some famous faces/voices in them and keep repeating the same formulas ad nauseam. They don't care, they're in it for the quick cash, and as long as people keep spending cash on these things, they won't bother changing a thing. And it's not like this only in shows and films, but basically every industry.
Hi, if you have never seen a whole serie, maybe you have never watched Nirvana on Fire? It was recommended to me 5 years ago, I can tell that so far, i have not seen anyone better.. The second one is Joy of Life , still waiting for part 2. But maybe you already watched and did not appreciate . 🤔🤷😉
@@Future_Pheonix ikr, this is happening in my country too... drama writers don't have much choices but to write template dramas since producers rarely dare to try any new formula Squid Game writer's said that he spent 4 years to sell it and failed. Netflix willing to buy since it's non local producers
@@moshicute2201 Hmm.. I haven't watched Squid Games, but tbh the plot sounds pretty overused too.. I have watched and read so many things with the same plot over the years. That's one of the reasons I'm not so excited to go and watch it. Of course, I think execution is far more important than originality, so it could still be really good. Only I'm not too fond of gore or depressing stuff.
xianxia dramas was one I really look forward to since the entire god, demigod, heavenly figures etc.. excite me a lot. TMOPB and Ashes of love were the only two dramas of this genre I thoroughly enjoyed. There were others which was fairly good
same here, xian xia is my prefered and others like nirvana in fire and joy of life, sorry don't know their genre, don't know if they're wuxia or historical drama
No matter how well-executed some of them may be, I absolutely hate how they're just slightly different copies of each other. Are they seriously unable to think up an original story involving deities?
@@svyatoslavrurikovich8831 I think a lot of that has to do with censorship you kinda follow or repeat what you know will work. I've been waiting for Zhao Ge for 5 years I'm willing they tried to be original and didn't pass censors.
@@TetrahedronIX Even if you don't count censorship laws, a massive bulk of actual source novels that these shows are made from all have the same basic plot.
ashes of love, love & demption, ancient love poetry, are i think inspired by TMOPB, each of them have different touch & twists but concepts are quite familiar for a viewer like me.
I will admit that Ashes of Love was my first Chinese drama. It holds a special place in my heart. It’s interesting about how the xianxia dramas depart from a Chinese perspective. I would love to see more xianxia with varied gods and styling. I would love for a character born a demon to work their way to the top of the pecking order. I often feel torn by the so-called evil characters because are they really evil or are we supposed to like the main characters just because of the set up??? Makes me want to see some
Because the people who picked it up, picked it up because they wanted to, not just because of money they could make. (Tho money is always nice) If some rando picks it up and doesnt throw enough effort in, even they know to an extent the die hard fans will eat it, the said fans will stop eating it by episode 3 and cancel it over weibo (Chinese Twitter). They make everyone's lives miserable even attacking actors man. Or at least that's that's I've noticed happen to some sorry saps. In a case to the uniqueness it is because China doesn't have built in stereotypes for bl's yet like Japan does. Despite the amount of bl's that we can find on novelupdates and such in the grand scheme of things. BL as a whole is far less common and most writers are doing it because they want to, not because it's a guaranteed way to make a lively hood. If you also notice there are far less BL dramas being made in general. There are more lately because of how successful The Untamed was but even now we maybe get one or two. So it's the lack of over saturation and (this works best) formulas that has allowed them to stay pretty different from eachother as a whole.
I think because of the constraints of censorship, they’re almost forced to make the writing subtle and nuanced which is very rarely seen in dramas these days.
@@itamochivargas6233 Yes! And the word of honor was such a success too!!! I hope they make more BL drama adaptations bcz truly, the BL genre in general is quite unique, deep and creative. It’s not only about the romance, it also teaches us life lessons, the hypocrisy and cruelty of the human society. I’m waiting for Hao Yi Xing and I don’t know when it’ll release. It’s adapted from the novel Husky and his white cat shizun and it’s a wonderful yet really sad story! Oh and the novel has a lot of nudity with non consensual themes so beware if you are uncomfortable with that!
Your point about the inherent discrimination based on race is so spot on! I noticed this while watching ashes of love where the harmful racial stereotypes were off the charts and Runyu's character who had absolutely genuine reason for grevance was prosecuted because of his birth origin. An abused, victimised character is completely demonised for standing up for himself which is morally SO messed up and comes frikin that same narrative of racial discrimination
As a xianxia follower, I really appreciate this video. In a way, the current xianxia world is very hierarchical and regressive. I wish they could’ve added more spices to the story. Why does it always has to be about love only? Also, I realize all these gods/fairies who go through reincarnation, have the best time of their lives when they are humans (TMOPB, LaD, AoL, LaR, AoP). What’s the benefits of being gods then when all they do is sacrificing themselves despite having unmatched power? It is upsetting to see the same acts being executed over and over again. Storytellers can go big with this genre if they want, but unfortunately it seems they are stuck now.
because that's what sells at the moment. Unless the consumers/audience demand more than what we're being given in every show, drama producers and writers won't bother to come up with new ideas.
I grew up with Celtic folklore/Faery stories so watching Xianxia media is absolutely fascinating to me. I love mythology themed stories. Ashes of Love is so gorgeous, it was The first one I watched. The aesthetic blew me away! I can see why all the new shows are getting repetitive and how frustrating that can be. I also agree the white deity outfits get old after a while. I always assumed they wore white since they lived in the clouds, but it still, it gets old after a while.
As an Indian who has grown up watching Ramayana and Mahabharata which are basically stories of gods, demigods in the human world, I love Xin Xia drama. It will be better if they could avoid misunderstanding the trope which is very common.
@@DeadInside-ct6dl while the saas bahu is brainrot.. they are watched for a reason. I know familymembers who watch them just for the colourful clothes lol. The xian xia stuff seems to be very beautiful and expensive but similarly repetitive.. Ashu does have a point though
@@DeadInside-ct6dl oh yes, there are so many myths, not only in Hinduism but all the other religions, in the Indian culture that they'd make for a really interesting series. But there's so much sensitivity related to religion and history in our country that it doesn't make for a creative project.
23:50 this is such a good point! it's kinda ridiculous how they keep pushing this high birth = good = beautiful/low birth = bad = ugly. you'd think people who write and produce these stories could go past this archaic trope. not only it's very classist, it's also very unrealistic because human nature doesn't work like that. 90% of times they just feed us these one-dimensional characters who are just, inherently good or evil for no reason.
God xianxia used to be so good. Like it's been years but 仙剑三 still holds up! And love and destiny was also good. But after watching more, I've realized all the current xianxia dramas are all basically the exact same story with the exact same tropes 😭
I can now understand a bit better when The Untamed gets classified as a Xuanhuan and not Xianxia despite envolving cultivators and magic, it is a step below the immortal gods setup. I also thought of it when thinking of how they do use brighter and darker colors and darker sets. So it got me curious thinking, would that type of aesthetic if it came up again, already be exciting for you? Word of Honor I remember also had very flamboyant clothes for the lady ghosts and other characters and I appreciated it a lot (I know its Wuxia, just comparing costumes and design at this point). Thanks for another great video
@@PichuElric Xuanhuan (玄幻 xuánhuàn) - literally means “Mysterious Fantasy”. A broad genre of fictional stories which remixes Chinese folklore/mythology with foreign elements & settings.
@@tasnimsiddique1228 Not really. Untamed has some elements that resemble "magic" in it that are not usually seen in wuxia. Wuxia usually involves martial arts only and whatever does seem out of the ordinary to us (westerners) like the flying or some qi healing etc is seen as a result of achieving high level in martial arts. Wuxia relates directly to the idea of martial arts heroes. The cultivators seen in xianxia series would be seeking immortality etc, which is why xianxia involves immortal gods. Untamed seems like is somewhere along the way. I mever saw it as wuxia, but i guess it's not xianxia either. I've seen most sites describe it as xuanhuan though I'm not sure what the western mythology elements ate in it.
@@MarthaBritoatriz probably Untamed did not contans the western mythology elements like elves etc, but the main hero is close to the western understanding of trickster archetype. This makes it more xuanhuan genre
One of my favorite scenes from Evernight was when Arthur Chen's character actually verbalized the fact that people assumed because he was so powerful, he must have been the son of a slaughtered noble when, in fact, he was the son of the servants.
On the social stratification part in Xianxia, I actually never attributed it to Western influence, I thought it was a representation of the social structures In China through many eras, where your value and power were built on your birth and the division between classes was extremely strong. So finding it them again in xianxia world building did not make me rise any of my eyebrows !
I had the same impression. Even if one assumes the character does not believe in "destiny by birth" and they live in the time where commoners could move up the ranks better, they would admit social mobility is extremely difficult and often times downright impossible without currying favors or scheming.
I agree with you that social stratification in Xianxia is a reflection of current Chinese society. But social mobility used to be high in China compared to in the West. Social stratification is more of a recent phenomenon that suits the CCP's agenda. I'm Chinese and was educated "王侯将相宁有种乎" (Is there anyone born as a king, duke, general or minister?) when young, but in 2019 I read that this story was deleted from Chinese textbook. Currently, as far as I know, dramas that tell stories about rebellions or social movements have trouble getting past censorship even if they're set in ancient times or fantasy world.
Different levels of social stratification have always been the reality in China, no matter ancient or modern. Even though social mobility in China nowadays is much better than ancient times, familly wealth, social status and influence still impacts a lot. Stratification has always been the reality, but mobility is what everybody wants. That's why those ancient stories were famous and got passed on to present times. The tropey stories created nowadays won't be classic in the future. (Correction to Aiai's comment: The ruling party of China is called the Communist Party of China (CPC, not CCP), and they want social mobility, not stratification. They don't want regime change, but they do want social mobility.)
@@wsytch4879 1. CCP is the abbreviation of The Chinese Communist Party which is also the right term. 2. Social stratification is the reality all over the world, but China had more social mobility than the West in ancient times through its national exams and officials selection system. These traditional myth stories were not just good wills from the people but partly based on reality and it's the main reason why traditional Chinese myth is so different than that of the West. 3. Some of CCP's stance on social mobility has changed in the last 20 years. It was too arbitrary of me to say that they didn't want social mobility but it's not as simple as they only care about regime change because some things are intertwined.
@@pzhlucia 1. The official name of the party is the Communist Party of China, not the Chinese Communist Party. The latter is not used in official documents and reports. "CCP" is adopted by many Western media, but it doesn't mean it's correct. 2. You are correct that there's more social mobility in China than the West in ancient times. And part of the reason those stories got passed on is that there was hope, even though not much. But you can't deny that social mobility in modern China is much better than ancient China, right? So you got what I mean. 3. The "change" of CPC's stance on social mobility that you said is not reflected in any offical document or policy. So, what you said is just not convincing at all.
This is why I found Donghua Dijun in TMOPB really fascinating, because he was an elevated being who had to rediscover his humanity through falling in love - but unfortunately that arc wasn't the best-written
I actually like how the gods are plain and dull. 😂 To me it shows that materialistic earthy things don’t matter to them. I agree with you on this genre though, too much love and not enough love for the beings.
i imagine it's also cheaper if you can more easily reuse props/wigs/sets from one production to another without much altering because they're all same aesthetic.
Wow, never thought I'd see the day where Avenue X features a Chinese drama from my country, Singapore! 😄 But absolutely enjoyed this video - I love how you always bring a critical analysis of dramas infused with a historical, cultural and social perspective, and I always learn so much from your videos. They're the perfect blend of edutainment - education yet entertaining at the same time! :)
Thank you very much for this thoughtful essay! Ten miles was my first c-drama, and I was blown away. Then tried to watch the Eternal love of dream, and the rehash is very apparent. One point concerning the "imperial examination effect": it is actually not unique to China. In old Europe, particularly in France, a PhD in Law followed by a serious administrative appointment would grant you nobility status; the same with outstanding military service.
I am actually addicted to xia xia web novels and there are a lot got great potential for an epic xia xia drama but sadly are not been considered. While xia xia is about letting free of your imagination nowadays it's made with hardly new elements or plot wise. Thank you for dressing up and nice 30 minutes chat😊
Yeah even the comedy ones aren't bring picked up, which is a shame. I've been waiting for an adaptation of 'Ascending Do Not Disturb' but it seems like unless you're following the same cookie cutter formula CDramaland producers want nothing to do with you.
@@CeruleanRogue it's always been a problem, even for other medias! mangas, novels, web novels, you name it... producers have no taste! well, some of them. bad to generalize
@@aureliaavalon Even when they pick up good ones, their script writer has no respect for the original work. They blame censorship, but lots of time it’s just lazy script writing. They leave out all the highlight moments or under preform them.
Lol when talked about the costumes ... Ten miles of peach blossom has been Marie Kondoed😆😆😆 all the gods in that world had decided to take on minimalism and they all have a capsule wardrobe.
Loved the video ❤️ Between the really bad CGI and VFX in some cases, the scandals on plagiarism, and the focus on making a quick buck instead of making a really good show and leaving a mark in the industry, I feel less and less inclined in watching Chinese media. Nowadays I mainly focus on modern series to at least try to improve my Chinese and hopefully still find a good show, or watch period dramas, but Xian Xia and Wu Xia are genres I'm basically avoiding now.
I also think when you have series with 40+ episodes it doesn’t help either. The pacing gets too slow or there’s so mich filler the plot gets convoluted.
When you brought up that "good character depends on your birth" part, it reminds me of how I feel about The Untamed's Xue Yang and Jin Guanyao. I love the show and I'm watching it for the third time since it's my comfort series, but now I can't help but feel that it's unfair for these two characters to be treated like the worst scum. Sure the show portrayed the Jins and Wens can be horrible people, but we only get to see Xue Yang and Jin Guanyao's being severely punished by the protagonists. Xue Yang brought up an excellent point that the cultivator clans don't give a damn about people of lowly birth. Even if they're righteous people they don't see how poverty can lead to crime. Being able to choose righteousness and good behaviour is actually a privilege.
"Good character depends on your birth." This is literally the thing the characters disprove over and over again. The whole theme of the story is "Choices and their consequences, regardless of origin." If you don't believe me, lets see a few examples. Wei Ying: Called as the Son of a servant for his entire life basically. Jin GuangYao: Called as the Son of a prostitute for his entire life basically. WWX: Was not officially recognized as an adopted son, wasn't even allowed to wear purple-colored Jiang robes by Madam Yu. Certainly wasn't treated as such either. JGY: Poor boy was not allowed to be officially a part of Jin sect either. Certainly wasn't treated as such either. WWX: was abused and whipped by a high class spiritual weapon Zidian constantly because of her jealousy of a dead woman.
JGY: No constant extreme physical abuse for long periods of time as per canon. WWX: Mother was constantly badmouthed for character by both Madam Yu and Lan Qiren. Could not defend her because no one bothered to tell him about her at all except for insults. JGY: Mother was constantly badmouthed for character by others. Could not defend her due to helplessness. {This is where individual decision and choice diverge} WWX: Decided to not care about other people's opinion and took a pledge to "be righteous and live without regrets." JGY: Put all his self worth on power. Excused his actions as seeking a fathers approval. Eventually had no problem killing said father though. WWX: When things went wrong, the main focus was on protection. Protect Mian mian. Protect Jiang Cheng and Yanli. Protect Wen Qing and her brother. Protect the Wen remnants, A-Yuan and so on. The saga never ends. JGY: When things went wrong, went on to cross all moral limits of murder, framing and incest to get power and killed his own little son to keep that power. Later killed his wife too when she found out about that. Destroyed the self trust of the only person who trusted him without question, Lan Xichen by killing Nie Mingjue. Also, he's not "treated like scum" by the protagonists, not even once. By this line, I don't know if you even watched the same Untamed I did. The expressions of both Wei Ying and Lan Zhan's faces when the crowd was turning against Jin GuangYao at the end said clearly that they were far more disgusted by "the mob" that JGY himself, even after all that he did to them. The protagonists also didn't "severely punish" him? They just exposed his crimes to clear Wei Ying's name coz.. you know....he was framed... Sorry but i really didn't understand this one. JGY was killed indirectly by Nie Huaisang, whose brother he killed mercilessly. He did have that one coming. Killing peoples siblings is a sure way to die by some cold revenge I tell you. And what do you mean the Jin and Wen weren't punished? JIn Guangshan died. Wen Ruohan was killed. Wen Chao was killed. Wen Zhuliu was killed. Jin ZIxun was killed. Wen Xu was killed too.... If you want to hear the parallels of Xue Yang, I can do that too. Xue Yang and Wei Ying, both lived on the streets as children and suffered. Both hated by the world for pursual of the dark path. Both wear black and are completely shameless lol. But that is where the similarities end. {Divergence in choices and principles again} Xue Yang killed a whole clan for one finger of his left hand. As revenge. Wei Ying also took revenge on Wen Clan but only on those responsible for his pain like Wen Chao and his minions. Not innocents like Wen Qing and Wen Ning. He even freaking went and adopted a Wen child! But some would say it wouldn't be fair to compare them since Wei Ying got adopted. Okay then, lets take a look at A-Qing, a street child with the bamboo stick who's pretending to be blind so that she can steal money from people. THIS is desperation of poverty, of survival. Not torturing a whole clan by peeling off their skin one by one and enjoying it, like Xue Yang did. And please don't give me that stuff about living on the streets. Both A-Qing and Wei Ying spent their childhoods on the streets too. A-Qing was poor too. She had to get by by stealing and deceiving people by pretending to be blind which is UNDERSTANDABLE. She had to cleverly lie, cheat, steal, frame to get money. Are they crimes? Yes. But the poor girl had to survive somehow! But Xue Yang.... he indirectly blinded Xiao Xingchen by manipulation, took advantage of his compassion and eventually made him kill innocents as well as his best friend Song Lan unknowingly so that the poor man committed suicide by slitting his own throat in grief when he found out? How do you even defend that? Like wow. This is just beyond revenge or survival now. Its senseless cruelty. Its insanity. At this point I don't even have words left to explain. Please don't take this as confrontational. THIS IS JUST FOR FUN. and a little bit cuz i wanted to rant about it haha. But I just couldn't see you go about believing that so... this wall of text happened lol. I sure hope you read this and reply with a similarly long wall of text to see your point of view cause I am open to changing my opinion if i missed something.
It's really well written. It just relies on the reader to look beneath the narrator's POV. Wei Ying is an unreliable narrator to begin with. Let's look at the Jiang's for an example. Madam Yu is a crazy abusive raving b*tch who gets kicks from whipping an orphaned child. But Wei Ying respects her power so we overlook his abuse because he doesn't ruminate on it either. And because she's a 'strong independent woman' almost all is forgiven. She gets away with abuse because she's the sect leader's wife. Fengmian is even worse. He turned a blind eye to Wei Ying's abuse and ignored his children to keep a false sense of peace. But Wei Ying loves him and is eternally grateful for being rescued so his willfully ignorant or pretends to ignore Fengmians neglect. Jiang Cheng is madam Yu at her worst. He's jealous and insecure so he takes it out on Wei Ying. He went on a murder spree after Wei Ying's death looking for "demonic cultivators" but no one called him out because he's "sect leader Jiang" and Wei Ying loves him so we also ignore this and accept Wei Ying's flimsy excuses made from self loathing and love. Yanli is Fengmian at his worst. Content with mediocrity, eager to turn a blind eye as long as the is peace. Always expects Wei Ying to compromise and soothe Jiang Cheng's and madam Yu's ruffled feathers but never the other way around. So insecure that she allowed Jin Zixuan to treat her like trash all her teenage life and never once stood up for herself. But Wei Ying adores her so she might as well be a goddess. All these are in the novel and speaks heavily on how rotten the gentry is . We only see the ones that go overboard like the Wen but so quick to ignore what is considered smaller infractions by the gentry to commoners which would not be so easily forgiven if it was done by commoners to the gentry. Instead of speaking about how "good birth=good person" it's more about how money and power allows people to get away with almost anything.
@Bylee Malox You took the words literally out of my mouth. I wanted to add this to my comment too. "Called as the Son of a servant for his entire life basically. Was abused and whipped by a high class spiritual weapon because of Madam Yu's jealousy of a dead woman. So used to constantly being put lower in value of his life that he gave his whole life's work to his so-called brother. Even on the day of Lotus Pier attack, all Madam Yu and Jiang Fiengman had to offer him was an order to keep _thier children_ safe, no matter the cost to himself. And somehow these seem acceptable behaviors to treat a child to the majority of the fandom. "Yunmeng bros are cool." "Jiang Fiengman was just a pacifier. Not an enabler of abuse." "Madam Yu just had a bad temper. And is maybe a lil tiny bit bad haha." "But its okay at least they're letting him stay there, right?" Do you why that is? Because the whole story of The Untamed is in the point of view of Wei Wuxian! And these are his views! Of course he wants to think they care about him just a tiny bit too. He has a real low self esteem, which is understandable I guess. The fandom basically drank up Wei Ying's views about every charachter. The trick is to look at the actions of the charachters, not words! The lack of critical thinking never ceases to astound me." But then i thought it will get too long and unrelated to the original comment so i removed this part ha ha who knew you would say it for me in an even better way :)
i agree with the point about the deities orgods losing sleep on human trivial things. Like take a look at elves and how are they depicted as in many stories, the have more wisdom , magic ,life span and hence they not bothered with trivial things and just do what they gotta do seriously!
I once had to ponder this while writing an essay on Lord of the Rings. I concluded that the three primary causes of death for wood elves were: drowning; falling out of trees; being struck by lightning.
Xianxia just so happens to be by my favorite genre (for both movies, dramas and novels), alongside the Wuxia genre (I like Xianxia more tho). But I totally agree with your points. I'm so tired of all these accumulation of crappy Xianxia genre, especially because this is such a genre which is very unique to China, and it being it's only source is making these stuff.
The thing about why chinese mythology also doesn't really work with the western fantasy set up is that when we talk about different beings divided by species is that in these instances we're not talking about gods, like at all. They mostly are like supernatural creatures that embody nature or bring fortune/misfortune and even if they have some kind of abilities, they are seen as folks. About gods we have very variegated history, but they aren't part of the creatures we see in the north-european western fantasy like the lord of the rings.
Thank you for sharing with us your knowledge about this subject ! I stumbled onto the genre last year and have loved only Ashes of love and Love and Eternity so far ! I suppose there are the only when the middle episodes (15-45) did not have me pulling my hairs off and acting and storyline were compiling !
I'm in love with Chinese animation/donghua "凡人修仙传/Record of a Mortal's Journey to Immortality" and many more of Xian Xia animations. They are just better than real actors.
The lack of originality is also a problem in western media now, I think a big problem is most visual medias are looked at right now as a money making venture instead of a storytelling venture.
I feel that the cinematography of xianxia dramas in the present is actually really good. However, I still think that things like characterisation, motif, scriptwriting and mainly, the relationship buildup between the characters, can be improved. This would allow actresses and actors to have access to interesting roles like for example, xue yang from the untamed. These dramas have come a long way but they still have a long path ahead of them.
I. Just. Absolutely. Love. Your very last summary at the very end about the current xianxia genre And the fact that they dun care abt anything besides love and the whole point of the show is just letting them fall in love and proce that they are destined tgt. Regardless of what big words they put it out there. Really. The only diff thing abt xianxia from all other common chi dramas now are the 'destined' and 'reincarnations' bullshit.
I remember speaking with a Chinese guy, and he was absolutely apologist that people who were born poor or not from a well off family had questionable moral character, as for the rich, being able to afford good education tended to be more upright. I told him: "Bro following your logic than, politicians in most African countries are all good people.Never mind them embezzling tax money into their own pockets while their people starve." Let's just say we never spoke again. It seems that this idea of rich/pretty=good poor/ugly=bad is very ingrained in theses dramas and some people do believe in that, and I have wondered if this is overall became a stereotype in Chinese society or not.
Seriously needed a video to actually sun up all the things about this genre dramas .. thank you !! Hope someday we can actually get a drama who breaks this circle
You saying that TMPB started this channel gave me goosebumps because your channel started me on C-drama. I literally had never watched a single minute of Chinese content before I stumbled onto your channel in 2017. Then I look back at the last 4 years and how your channel (as well as me) has grown...
ahahahaha the squirrel omg hahahaha (21:55 in case someone missed it it's too cute!!) ... btw I love this kind of video the most. I don't have enough time and patience to watch many cdramas but I love to learn stuff like this. It's always fascinating for me how old folklore, myths and culture is adapted in modern times, to see which kind of twists and interpretation come out of it. And I think you really nailed it..within the xianxia genre there is so much potential and room to explore, but the producers always just chose the safe route. I hope some more creative and experimental works will come around in the future and mix the cdrama landscape up a bit!
First of all... wow, what a beautiful look!! Thanks for dressing up, your appearance blew me away. HOB is a Xianxia drama and listening to you, I don't have high hopes for the live-action version. 14:29 "naturally divide... because they belong to different races" this is technically not completely true in the Tolkien worlds, but it does appear so in LOTR. They were in different groups/geographical location/landmarks as those locations are suited for a particular race/groups. In many ways it makes sense to human logic when you think about people who lives in different geographical/geological locations having different appearances. The animosity between groups though, was something that happened in the LOTR lore as it was implied that before the appearance of The Ring, the groups were a lot closer to each other. 18:09 "everything... is based on.. who you are at the moment you were born" This is the reason I don't touch the majority of cdramas, not just xianxia. They're #notrelateable 20:08 "...just seem to have to be... white" Two things: When I first migrated to a western country with 4 seasons, people always commented on my brightly multi-coloured dresses which is when I also realized that most people wear... not too many colours and the majority are white or black because black and white are easier to colour-coordinate. Unless you're fashionable or rich, you don't wear a lot of colours. Second thing: I found it amusing that the gods and goddesses seems to be wearing uniforms up there in the upper realm and the colours don't change over time, which make it seem that life is a lot more boring up there than it is in the human realm when colours change with the seasons, various events and trends. Xianxia in theory is a great genre to play around with, I have yet to see a good actualization of the concept of 'time moves slower in the upper realm than in human realm' where basically in theory up there you can't solve small things that happens because the boat have sailed by the time you try to do something. It's a good conceptualization of an upper management 'helicopter view' of the world where they can see further to decide on direction and strategy, but have little view on human day-to-day, on what's actually going on and how they impact life in detail.
Yes we needed this video! Your channel got me into xianxia but there hasn't been any good drama from this genre for the longest time 🙄 Ps. Love your look for this video 😍
Costume wise "Empress of China" remains superior to me (it was my first Chinese drama to watch). Wuxia/XianXia dramas never surpassed that drama even if they are taking place in a Fantasy realm. After reading a few novels I can say that until the Government will not get rid of their strict regulations and censorship there will be no freedom of creativity in the Chinese drama realm. And I believe this is the reason why everyone goes with an Agreed standard and remake the same type of stories. They also need to start being more dedicated to their projects and stop producing cheap dramas with silly cheap effects because nobody can take too seriously such dramas. If they don't have the budget to produce an overly complicated high fantasy drama then it shouldn't be done. Don't ruin a good story. Stick with something more realistic and simple.
Excellent discussion, as always! Journey of Flower was the drama that pulled me into the xianxia world and the world of Chinese dramas altogether. Dramaland has been a little boring recently (same story different names, in many cases). I will note that it's not just C-dramaland that's suffering-- American movies and books are doing the same (we're getting movies based on fanfictions... that are fanfictions of fanfictions!). Larger production companies/publishers are just so risk averse they avoid telling stories that don't already have an established fanbase.
Great video! Plot and characters are the two major things that get on my nerves because they're so overused, but I still watch the xianxias if they can keep my attention going. 😂
Girl - this is the type of video I subscribed for. Thank you for all your work in putting this together cause a) you nailed the problems bang on and b) I love the insight into how Chinese vs Western mythos plays into the creation of these stories and how they are executed. For what it's worth, you do have influence over Chinese Dramaland...at least on me because at this point, if your review says it's crap, I'm not watching it, haha. As for this video, you are right. A lot of the hierarchal power structures that takes place makes no sense. It's not just internally/culturally conflicting, it robs the entire story of any kind of normal tension or dramatic cues you need in a good story. Ashes of Love was the last one I watched - and I nearly gave up because the female lead was ridiculous. Yes, they state she's powerful because she's "born with it" but she never literally grows. A good story would have her literally levelling up and experiencing trials and tribulations to earn that power. But in Ashes of Love, she just...glows up for some reason. This is why, for all its flaws, Love and Destiny remains superior because Ling Xi technically evolved twice during the story - and they used all that time to SHOW her become more powerful and wise. I can live with that - that makes internal sense to the drama. It uses the tropes wisely, rather than just making a whole show out of tropes.
I wonder if you'd be interested in making a similar video about the history and current state of palace dramas? I very much enjoyed this video, and I always am fascinated and enlightened by your opinion! I'd love to hear what you have to say about this other genre :)
Reasons to love heaven officials blessing… a potential Xianxia that ISNT “template”… but… sadly it’s BL and has a lot of obstacles to overcome to represented as what it deserves
Thank you thank you thank you for helping me sort out my eastern wu/xian xia thinking to my western Hobbit/Lord of the Rings/Marvel😅 Seriously…It was keeping me awake at night. Nobody could help me… until now. Appreciate you dressing up your hair and dress. Makes me proud to be Chinese and its culture. You are my model sophisticated chinese of today who is not confused like the rest of us who live in the west. Thank you 😊
24:00 to be honest this problem happens not only in Xian Xia dramas, but virtually in every other type of drama, and it is frustrating. It is like only the stories of high ranked people or beings are worth to be told.
Hiii can you talk about the story of the BL genre in novels and dramas. For example "the guardian, the untamed, word of honor". They started as a novel yet they came to the drama world 😉
I LIVE AVENUEX VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!! So accurate and so reasonable. I honestly hate how now chinese fantasy dramas lack story, plot, excitement and all round spice. I really pray in the near future that avenuex will be able to be make or be in the production of a Chinese drama, oh my gosh I will be Amazing.
TMOPB was the first Cdrama I watched last year. I’m almost ashamed to admit how many I’ve watched since. I loved palace dramas. I remember watching The Last Emperor as a teen and many old Kung Fu movies as a kid. I love all the different beings. I’m an indigenous American, my family sees animals as relations. So, I love that gods, animals, gods, all have important story lines. All I know is that in the past year, all these dramas really kept my emotions elevated in hard times. I don’t know enough to judge anything. 😹 I do see where the story telling has become formulaic. lol “they look like they are going to a western wedding” though I’m ignorant of many things, I was surprised at billowing white and long flowing tresses. Lol at your hamburger helper analogy. I did like The Rise of the Phoenixes (I know, not Xian Xia) for it’s deep characters and interesting twists. Well, damn. My low birth thing explains everything 😅 Addressing the romance template… I was watching Evernight and Viki dropped the license for my region. I was very disappointed because by E31, there was still no romance but the story was great! Thank you for this video.
I’m not really into Xianxia drama, most memorable for me was TMOPB due to Gao Weiguang🤣 thanks for this video, I love Chinese history, even if it’s Xianxia drama history🥰
I have enjoyed the dramas cited in this video, after my first crash landing into Ashes of Love like the phoenix in JinMi's backyard (the scenes next after that were so rip-roaringly funny!) and I continue to do so with some other ones, in the time I set aside to watch more. I agree with the annoyance at the white colour and too similar or simple costumes. I chuckled in AoL when JinMi appeared in the red-pink lined dress, and met SuiHe dressed in identical fashion, just dismissing the garb as peacock-like. But I much preferred the black outfits in Demon realm, although too uniform, and the tresses were overly childish. Also agree that faces are much too perfect, although Runyu had some pimples that did not get totally hid by the makeup (I still admire Luo Yunxi who is very handsome and an excellent actor, in my opinion). Then again, there was that comical scene when JinMi ripped off the clothes of Xufeng to check his interestingly scarred chest and back, which led to the heavenly treatment through lingzhi kiss😁 As for the complaint about characters often being predestined and not fitting the ideal of being able to come from obscurity and work their way up to power, I would say that destiny has always played a part in even ordinary people's life when Chinese families have the four pillars and eight characters checked for their children and their marriages, and noble birth always existed in Chinese fantasies, if you think of the classic novels or operas, like the Butterfly Lovers, the Peony Pavilion... I come from reading classic novels, Jin Yong's Condor Heroes in translation, watching old movies and operas, so the xianxia drama codes puzzled me at first, but I supposed it had to do also with the connection to video games. Landscapes often seem to be lifted from such (which is not surprising if Perfect World takes part in production) and much of the fights looked like but fell a bit below what is expected in immersive games : I was a bit disappointed by the Qiongqi monster attacks and part of the hunt, and even by the end battle between the Heaven and Demon realm armies. What I rather liked was the sailings on the Wangchuan river of forgetfulness, although puzzling why exactly gods that can fly as a phoenix or teleport really would need that antiquated means of transportation - also, traditionally, this 忘川河 is at the end of the HuangQuan Road 黄泉路in the underworld, and the river is spanned NaiHe Bridge 奈何桥 etc So that boat was indeed a nod to the Greek Styx and Charon's boat? But since this was the occasion to behold beautiful shimmering colored animation CGI, I just sat back and admired while JinMi was cutely dumped out of the sleeve, stumbled and fell sitting in position without help on her first journey there. I also smiled when Xufeng grudgingly prevented her from falling into the treacherous water when they landed: catching the heroine when she stumbled was cleverly done there, and the gleeful dialogue snippet on Demon market between the three main protagonists remains one of my favorite. My favorites in the Chinese fantasy or mythology categories that I used to watch before these xianxia dramas were among others (further to the two which I mentioned before) : White Snake Chinese long opera versions, Journey to the West/Monkey King operas, the animated classic 大闹天宫 (Uproar in Heaven, from 1961; which was perhaps the first Chinese movie I watched back in my youth) , Prince Nezha’s Triumph Against Dragon King from 1976 which went beyond kid-targeted animation, and some movies that were grounded in Chinese mythology like The Legend of Lu Ban (the black and white version of 1958 directed by Sun Yu) and before and after that the movies around Chinese ghost stories, and a number of wuxia movies out of Taiwan, Hong Kong etc until House of Flying Daggers (2004 movie directed by Zhang Yimou). I was from early on interested in Daoist lore and hexagram predictions, and more attracted to the oriental notion of fluid evolution and becoming than that of western ontology "being" that are often opposed in philosophy. Of course, all that has to be sources of current xianxia stories and dramas, but I look forward to watch something different, if it can be done in xianxia or xuanhuan. Only grouching (but not that much) that some dramas are really really (over-)long : before 2020, I would probably not have had the patience so sit for 30-60+ episodes, since I never was a soap opera fan. On the other hand, this had me admire the willing exercise in patience and tolerance for formulas from Asian or friends of Asia viewers, and realize that in the West we value perhaps too much brevity, speed and rash action.
Yes! I agree with you totally! I haven't watched many xian xia dramas but while I was watching I kept thinking these characters don't behave like they are immortal. They all just act like humans with superpowers. Very few characters were written like they were a higher being.
huuuuuuh. I'm happy I watched this. I'm a westerner thinking about writing xianxia, and trying to connect with half of my heritage. Seeing someone talkinga about the differences and influences is really interesting to me.
Really agree with everything, i’d just like to add that god/神 (shen) usually refers to gods by birth, while immortal/diety/仙 (xian) tends to refer to those that cultivated to become immortal. In both cases to ‘power up’ you usually need to cultivate. Nowadays it seems the meanings of these 2 words has become a bit blurred though
I stumbled upon this video by accident, I know nothing about Chinese dramas haha. I enjoyed it very much, it was so interesting! You brought up some good points and the video was very nicely set out. Also, you look lovely, your outfit hair and make-up is wonderful
From the second you mentioned about Journey to the West and Legend of the White Snake, I know this video is gonna be good lol. Honestly little to no “Xian Xia” dramas came close to those two in terms of popularity and how legendary it is in my country. I guess most of 80s and 90s-born know those two. Now, it’s difficult to find a similar/popular one (except TMOPB, that drama made me watch xianxia genre again) to match. That’s really too bad. Anyway, I haven’t watch that 8-gods drama, I think I need to check that out.
Can you do a recap/informal video of actresses/actors again?! Please do Yang Mi! I’m surprised you didn’t do her yet because she was lead in TMOPB and that’s what gave you the idea to do the YT. 😂
For now, she won't, on one occasion she explained that she is afraid to do a biography, so that same person makes a scandal, then she has to delete the video in which she invested her work.
Thank you so much AvenueX for defining and detailing from your point of view the meaning of what the xianxia genre entails! I don’t know a lot about Chinese folklore or its history in the arts 🎭 as I am from America, but I am trying to learn more about your culture and I find it quite interesting! 😁 You have a awesome way of speaking and making your theories very understandable and I really do appreciate that! Even when you speak in your own language, you pronounce your syllables with such a poetic and an ethereal sound that flows as you speak. You speak such beautiful English and I enjoy your comments! Thank you for your honesty and enlightenment!👍🏼😁♥️
as a 90s kid i literally grew up watching the 90s version of journey to the west and legend of white snake, those 2 are really popular here as local tv station broadcasted them, way before kdramas became popular, we used to watch those cdramas. didn't know that was considered as xianxia tho.
I much agree with you regarding the long episodes just to get more money and that's suck. Also hate when they always makes the "misunderstanding" thing happened over and over again and we have already figure it out the ends gonna be like since everyone expected to be a "happy ending". TBH I like the ending of Princess Agent although it sad ending but for me it's an epic one. Anyway, I knew a lot of people disagree with me.
@@QueenXKnit I know, that's only a sample for being a different genre. Because this days, Xian Xia's story always like a copycat. ML n FL always have an ill fated at the beginning or they have some misunderstanding then at the end a happy ending.
Thank you summing it up so nicely! I appreciate all your hard work & opinions on this subject. China has such a rich history in culture & folklore, they should have pride in ensuring and enriching the international viewers to China's rich history & culture!
Agreed 1000%. Initially xianxia dramas were fresh and fun in the sense that there was room to explore a novel visual, aesthetic, sound, and setting (a world of gods that are not necessarily tethered by the common struggles of humans), which is very different from a usual human-oriented setting/logic. However, over time, it seems like the plot and aesthetic vocabulary of xianxia dramas have become overly played out and synthesized into a few simple lazy set of stereotypes and tropes. People haven't bothered to push that vocabulary much further. Moreover, at the heart of it, the genre's conflict or plot often centers around an inconsistent value proposition. Although about gods/powerful beings that are supposedly powerful or will become powerful, the leads are made to struggle in a very human mortal way (so us mortal audience can relate and easily invest and want to observe their struggles and how they overcome them) against/for their predestined fate or love. Thus, at the end of the day, it's just a classic story setup dressed up a little differently -- and at this point, the "dressed up" part of it isn't as novel as it use to be. Personally, I don't mind the genre overall. Sometimes I just crave a formulaic xianxia drama that feels removed from the realities of human struggles (but does essentially show a parallel of human struggle in "god" form) -- as long as it's executed well with no nonsensical or major plot issues. Xianxia dramas have become a standardized/commoditized flavor like a standard strawberry or chocolate icecream -- we all know what it's suppose to taste like. I'm fine with that but of course would certainly appreciate effort in pushing the boundaries of the standardized flavor, e.g., give me a single origin dark chocolate gelato instead.
Relatively new subscriber. Also relatively new to C-Dramas, etc. Excellent points about the tendency to anthropomorphize the god characters. Also the formulaic productions (including plots, character tropes, etc.) happens everywhere in all the "hollywoods" around the world. One of the reasons why many people around the world get into other country's dramas I think. People get bored with the same thing dressed slightly differently in the not so veiled attempts for these industries to make money following these formulas. It's why we all appreciate novel stories/story-telling. Really enjoying your channel!
Hi AvenueX, thank you so much for talking about the problem of Racism implanted within Xian Xia dramas. I was not conscious of this issue until you mentioned it. This is very interesting to think about.
Thanks for an awesome video. Your opinion is pretty much how I've felt about xian xia this past decade or nearly two. I've seen several remakes of White Snake, Journey to the East (pretty good for the most part) and while not having seen the 80s Journey to the West yet, I've watched the 90s version. Like you, I somehow just accepted them. Of course, it helps that I love anything mythology, too. But all the new xian xia lately just care about characters falling in love and less about what it means to be a xian or expanding the mythos and... generally being just bad. So, I've stopped watching them until the genre can get their eggs in one basket.
I want long videos please. I can hear all your wisdom all day long. Its much more interesting to listen to you than to watch some of the cliche boring dramas.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts AvenueX! Totally agree with the problems you brought up about Xian Xia. I genuinely hope that in the future there will be a Xian Xia that deviates from these versions with the TMOPB. Even if it is campy, low budget, with rookie actors, average script, that's also fine. Something different! Love your styling in this video with the pop of red! :)
![The Most Ridiculous Chinese Drama Moments of 2021! [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hcCmklhdNVA/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Most Ridiculous Chinese Drama Moments of 2021! [CC]](/img/tr.png)
![Unexpected Cute Xian Xia with ... Probable Plot Crash Ahead - Back From the Brink [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oZMxBwz_TsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Finally A GOOD Period Idol Drama of 2024 in November ! - Love Game of Eastern Fantasy [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DxT17UmC6N4/mqdefault.jpg)
A side effect of the "heroine" being pure and wearing simple, billowy white outfits is that the "demon princess" characters stand out. The wear colors, more make-up, look hotter, and they get to do more things and more interesting things. In Ashes of Love they even get spicier food to eat!
In Xianxia dramas I consistently ship the hot demon princess and the elegant male second lead (even when the former always loves the male lead, while the latter always falls for the female main character), because they have that great “bad girl vs. good boy” chemistry that’s much more interesting than the vanilla interactions between the main couple😂
@@queenning28 can you give an example?
@@queenning28 Yes, even in non Xianxia dramas, i ship the rebel girl & rule follower boy. Much more interesting dynamic.
@@queenning28 or the pure white female mc should go with the hot demon princess 🤣🤣
@@chickwit2575 Like in Ashes of Love, I ship that feisty demon princess with Runyu, and also the hot (but evil) goddess with Runyu. Sorry I can’t remember their names. And I know Runyu is technically a villain, but he’s an elegant classy villain lol
I still ship Jinmi with Runyu, mainly because Jinmi’s actress is so talented. Her acting skills make Jinmi “shippable” with literally everyone in the story. If it was a different actress, I would probably feel no chemistry between them.
Another example would be Word of Honour. I ship A’Xiang and Cao Weining so damn hard. It’s a blessing that they’re actually the official couple. Usually a nice cute boy like Weining would NEVER get the girl in Chinese dramaland😂 I’m happy for him lol
Something that bothers me is when xianxia dramas or just cdramas in general have the ML and FL "fall in love" for no particular reason. Like there is no connection whatsoever or theres barely any interactions yet suddenly ML starts liking FL like ???? is this normal? 😅 Just because they are "fated" the storyboard just wants to throw them together and make them a pair. I understand being "fated lovers" but can the audience get some sort of convincing series of events with the two leads that will make us understand how each character began to spark feelings for one another?
The scriptwriters and directors assume (not entirely wrongly) that viewers want to see maximum amount of interactions between the ML and FL as quickly as possible. Hence, the tripping into each other’s arms, holding the waist, twirling while staring into each other’s eyes, accidentally kissing and touching, accidentally running into each other ALL THE TIME…It doesn’t work on me, but apparently enough people want to get sugar high from these very contrived developments. Once they ship the ML and FL, forget about the plot-seeing these two people together touching, hugging, kissing and saying sweet nothings trumps all else. Actually, why stop at the drama, they might even want to see that in real life with these actors as themselves…I once heard someone saying “I SO wish Yang Yang and Dilreba are real lovers”…
But dont you SEE all of them have the fl beeing saved by the ml from falling. And all of them have slowmo and spinn around. Thats so romantic how could you not Fall in love...
I startet to drop dramas when that happends... Exept tiger and Rose. That Drama was just THAT good 😅
@@shawnyang435 You're right! I know it's all about personal preference, but I sometimes wonder what the average age range of the viewers is haha To be honest, even ten years ago, you also had people who didn't care about the quality of dramas. They're not really new. It's just that now dramas are almost exclusively catering to them. Before, there was more variety, with more well-written series each year. That's why I don't support any of the low quality dramas. They're not only a waste of time, watching them also encourages the production of more subpar dramas...
@@gianellab.4953 If idols were cast as leads, you are looking at average audience age around 15-16 yr olds, and female. Thus, everything must be easy to understand, characters good or evil, and sugar rush ASAP. Majority of these teenage audience likely have some degree of self-esteem issues so the female lead must be special somehow.
Same problem for Chinese audio dramas. An audio drama trying to follow the source novel by taking time to properly set up the story and establish characters will have live comments impatiently pushing for the leads to meet, to start dating, to kiss and so on.
always have the leads flying in the air spinning around in slow motion holding each other and staring each other. It's cringe when that happens.
1. The web novels many of these dramas are adapted from are not that good to begin with. Other than the most well-known ones, web novels are usually very tropey and not well-written with very simple characters and bare-bone character arcs. The point of web novels is to provide very quick sensual stimuli in spade. There’s absolutely no nuances or moral ambiguity or anything up for debate. Wronged people are extremely wronged (the hero’s entire family is murdered), the lovers are extremely in love (they love, die, get reborn, love again, rinse, repeat), and the revenge is extremely satisfying (antagonists never win).
2. The director Feng Xiaogang once said “there are bad movies because there are bad audiences.” I used to think that’s insulting, but now I start to see his point. Fans of some actors watch absolutely ANYTHING starring their Gege and Jiejie. If you dare to criticise their idols’ dramas, they go after you as if you just insulted their mom (ironically, they often vent their anger by cursing your own mom and wishing infertility upon you). As long as they keep telling the investors of the production companies that “we will watch anything with our Gege and Jiejie in it,” we’ll keep getting bad dramas.
YESSSSSSSSSS
I very much agree with your points! If we bring in adaptations of webnovels, we have so many more factors catered to making the story mediocre. Some of which are:
1. Writers are paid by number of words - therefore, increasing padding and useless fillers.
2. Writers are often pushed by publishers and readers alike to update daily. But to update daily at several thousands of words a day means the writers rarely have time to stop and think deeper.
3. Writers of these genres are often disenfranchised by the world. Many of them didn't become a writer out of pure passion. They were let down by society or their jobs. This means they're more likely to want to write power fantasies with no moral ambiguity and where fate does all the hard work for you.
I think censorship also put a restriction on the variety and creativity
@@bloodyrose1111 Of course. We could have brilliant horror stories and political satires without censorship. I still can’t believe Netflix and the directors of Game of Thrones get to make The Three-Body Problem before we do (although Tencent is currently making one, the origin of the story, Cultural Revolution, will be expectedly cleansed). Having said that, I don’t think we can blame the cheap and boring costumes, hairstyles, makeup and heavy filters on censorship. These are just choices to minimise costs.
I disagree that the web novels aren't good to begin with. Honestly, the web novels are so much better. The female leads in web novels are usually so much smarter and stronger but once they are adapted into a drama, they dumb down the female leads. Like "The Legend." I almost spit out blood at how weak they made Zhao Yao.
I do agree about the crazy fandoms. No matter how much I like an actor or actress, if their dramas are not good, I will not watch. Others people are not so much like that. I remember getting attacked from some crazy fans just because I gave a true honest reviews on my opinions of the dramas. It has nothing to do with their idols, but I got attacked and was called an anti fans. 😂🤣 Crazy.
I agree with the Aesthetics sooo much, this is why palace dramas are still watchable because the queens, emrpesses and kings have better, more lavish costumes and better palace settings which gives the viewers something to feast on. Whereas Xianxia dramas are white, bright and the costumes are pretty much the same which is boring and sometimes the leads that are casted don't have a "Godlike" Presence. They seem like children with soft and perfect faces, like War Gods should look like they have been to war; shabby, scars and able to wield a heavy weapon.
I agree with this soooo much! Too many pretty faces that don’t fit the role in Xianxia. Wish they would cast accordingly!
It's because in general they heal better and have different constitution than mortal.
Some don't defecate because they don't need to eat, they eat "fasting pills" at the beginning but when they're higher levels they don't need to eat because they're functioning on Qi.
Secondly they don't age like mortals. At some point they age slower and eventually stopped aging. Some use beauty pills, some use higher cultivation to prevent aging. They can choose how they wanna look like. Some even went and be a mountain or rivers.
So unless it's like life threatening or something poisonous, cultivators are pretty spotless.
Well even in the novels war gods are described as some pretty men! Not like some general looking like a real big masculine man with scars on his face and burned skin which is the result of being in the open area most of his life. Since they're gods they heal from scars and they're supposed to look ethereal!
About aesthetics even in palace dramas the outfits sometimes seems too much. Imperial women with top coats on their nails! Men go to battles and yet their hair styles and clothes are still very clean and neat. A small sized woman wears heavy war armor and can beat big men! That's the most unrelatable thing about female warriors I see in historical dramas that they don't even look like some sports woman or someone who did fighting in her life but just some zero size actress with very fair skin who has not been under the sun for 1 hour in her life! There is nothing wrong with simple outfits to me even minimalist looks can be designed well, it's only in chinese dramas that the costumes are too lavish and every woman looks like coming from a fashion runaway but even in historical k-dramas the outfits and hairstyles are more simple yet they have the audiences so it's not even an important part of the deal or in western dramas in GOT people in Westeros had this untidy dirty look to look more natural. The thing with them is more repetitive scripts.
They're gods. Why should war gods have muscles and scars? They're gods, they don't need it since they can rely on powers along.
@@cristina8868 well yes this chi was heard but welp, u can't make ppl like the same thing as u. Just because u like something doesn't mean other ppl will, too.
I hope that they do a good job with the adaptation of Tian Guan Ci Fu. It has the potential to inspire and rejuvenate the genre if done well. It has a unique and interesting love story that doesn't just involve two characters looking at each other and bickering until they randomly fall in love. And has gods that actually do work for the people who worship them! There is also plot that goes beyond just a love story that isn't just inserted for length. The book was so great and I'm trying not to have too high of expectations for the drama, but it's hard not to.
I think that’s why people like bl adaptations. First because the source material is of higher standard than the bg web novels being adapted and second because there’s a moment in them where you understand why anyone would fall in love with the leads. For example in the untamed, the ml has a new appreciation for the mc when he hears his prayer during the lantern scene. It gives the audience an actual reason to understand why xyz fell in love and not just that they look pretty like it is in bg dramas. Ashe of Love is one of the few where you see that the ml likes the fl because she’s helped him and not just because she’s pretty.
Unfortunately, I don’t see much hope in that and would rather place my bets on Immortality’s quality. The scale of the two productions are just…different. Also, the skills of the actors as well.
@@cyy8926 yeah i agree re the production. Immortality is so well cast, wheres TGCF, I've only seen a little of the actor playing Xie Lian and I was ...not impressed. The cast seem very inexperience and the costumes so far have not looked good. However, scriptwise I think 2HA is way harder to adapt in a way that will be faithful to the novel at all so I am not putting too high hopes in that one either.
@@IamaKaliedoscope Completely agree. Because China has amended the laws and has become much more stricter, a lot of the scenes are cut out from Immortality. As for TGCF, sigh don’t even wanna talk about it. It’s my favourite novel and yet…they always need to cast inexperienced people who already have fan bases such as idols and ruin the best stories 😭😭 all for the money…
@@cyy8926 the last time I see this kind of comment is when before The Untamed and Word of Honor came out, but people just shut up after that when they realized it was great. Maybe let's just wait for the drama came out first?
Class privilege: I did not even realize how it shows up in Xian Xia dramas until you discussed it. So on point.
Haha for some reason I really fell in love with the story plot from Tian Guan Ci Fu! not because of it's BL genre but I am finally seeing a really poor god though a prince really working hard to make the world better. Even the story is rather well written in the novel and anime!
And all the gods actually have to work all the time, if it's answering their believers in dreams, doing loads of paperwork or investigating weird stuff in the human realm- they are more like officials (haha) and they have to work to stay relevant to get more merits to stay a god. Really funny that they have a kinda monetary system up there- but it makes sense because all gods are ascended humans, just like ghosts were all human once (correct if I am wrong on that one).
Hmmm, so the limitation actually excludes the race-class system problems avenuex describes... never thought about that.
Really glad I'm reading something about Tian Guan Ci Fu, because I was wondering if it's Xian Xia. It's one of my absolute favorites (webnovel and animation). I really like the fact that the main character goes from prince admired by all to god to less than nothing. But I also like that the main character is never looking to get back to godhood. He never strives to get a promotion or a better rank. All he wants to do is make the world a better place.
I never realized how much different it was from the usual xian xia but then again, I don't read/watch much of the genre. Well now I know that not everything is like TGCF which is disappointing. But then again I don't like romance, more of a historical politics powerstruggle kind of gal.
If only more “straight” Xianxia were like Heaven Official’s Blessing, maybe the genre wouldn’t be so blah. TGCF has a protagonist who’s riches to rags to riches, and a love interest who was born a peasant and had to fight his way to the top of the ghost world. Plus, XL was clueless about HC’s feelings for most of the story, there was no insta-love. Let’s see more of that!
One of the things i loved about TGCF is when XL is trying to ascend for the second time and he realizes... he can't. It is very easy to not have attachments to the world when you don't have anything to worry about. He never had to worry about his parents, they were royalty. He never had to worry about his friends because he had the political power to keep them comfortable. It was a lesson in humility, and it also is a bit of worldbuilding. It explains why so many of the gods feel like rich assholes, and it is because they probably are. Those who struggle to survive in life are going to have a harder time ascending.
This video was very, very educational for those of us who only got interested in C-Dramas because of The Untamed. It’s a shame, because the Xianxia genre has a ton of potential - and it gets squandered over and over. It seems that Xianxia has become to Chinese drama what Hallmark movies are to holiday entertainment - the producers say, “Hey, this worked before, let’s just make a few minor changes and do the same thing all over again!” The audiences eat it up, but afterward are left feeling empty - while the producers count their money. Why should they bother putting out innovative material when they’re making bank? And so, the vicious cycle continues.
BL xianxia dramas>>>>>>>Hetero xianxia dramas. Hetero xianxia dramas are boring and only focus about the protagonist's love and all the obstacles and cliche plots they must go through🙄
You probably mean the stories the adapted the drama from. In the first place, the BL that they adapt are usually the most read compared to the normal xianxia dramas, in which they adapt bad novels lmao. To me however, because they adapted such a good novel like MDZS, they just ruined it for me. The drama was never up to standard to the story or even the anime. Cringy acting saved by the voice actors, really what a disappointment. The production teams will do anything to choose famous people who have no prior acting experience for the success of a drama.
Just a observation, The Untamed is a Wu Xia.
@@morenasilvaoficial MDZS is actually Xian Xia with slot of Wu Xia elements.
@@cyy8926 um you do know that the actors weren't even remotely popular to what they are now right? also they were such a small production house back then they didn't even have the budget like all these other big production houses today and even within that budget they did such a beautiful job conveying wangxian's relationship and other character arcs despite the censorship which is another reason to hold them back to make the show upto the novel's standards(even though its still amazing however it is) the show isn't this popular amongst both local and international audiences just for nothing that its literally considered one of the most popular chinese shows till date(both bl and in general)?? its okay to say if you are a novel fan and the show wasn't upto your standards but dont just go around spreading misinformation of how they chose popular actors blah blah or disrespect the actors and production who put so much hardwork and effort into that project
OMG. Watching this again after watching LBFAD and now I realize why I found LBFAD to be refreshing. In LBFAD, Xiaolanhua needed to prove she was worthy of he power/identity by knowing the 3 realms and proving themselves to the moon tribe. The drama also pointed out that the heavenly tribe is not always the good side and that there are other perspectives too. DFQC became powerful not because he was born with it but because he had to give up his emotions in the process.
LBFAD: the hero that saves the Xian Xia genre
but then it turned out that Lanhua has always been the goddess of Xishan and her power has always been with her since her birth :(
@@idasuper well yes, but she lost her family because of it and she needed to lost her love to get it back....so it make sense
I get into the Chinese Drama world for the last 2 years... but only after around 6 months after, I'm confused about how all dramas are extremely 'TEMPLATE", the repetitive characters with repetitive backgrounds; the same story ideas with the same development; to make it worse.... the same scenes...
I'm confused on why Chinese drama writers don't want to let their characters have a peasant background, like the FL in KDrama 100 Days my Prince; or the drama Warrior Baek Dong Soo.a drama in which all characters are peasants. In CDrama, they're all Prince, Princess and unimaginably rich and powerful CEO
Just like you, I'm sad to see they always put the villain as a character from a lowlife background, and the reason is always jealousy... as if lowlife is not allowed to have any dream to reach the top. How tragic...
But even though I am rarely able to stand to watch a whole series, mostly stop at after 2 - 20 eps, I'm still watching countless of it, and happy if I can bump into a good one
I have nearly no experience with Xian Xia and little experience with Chinese dramas in general, but I'm assuming it's like everywhere else in the world,
for example western superhero/Marvel movies, romcoms, Disney remakes/sequels, mindless action movies, dumb comedies, horror movies etc.
Once something makes money, they'll stick some famous faces/voices in them and keep repeating the same formulas ad nauseam.
They don't care, they're in it for the quick cash, and as long as people keep spending cash on these things, they won't bother changing a thing.
And it's not like this only in shows and films, but basically every industry.
Hi, if you have never seen a whole serie, maybe you have never watched Nirvana on Fire? It was recommended to me 5 years ago, I can tell that so far, i have not seen anyone better.. The second one is Joy of Life , still waiting for part 2. But maybe you already watched and did not appreciate . 🤔🤷😉
Sorry, maybe it does not enter in the xianxia categorory !!!!!
@@Future_Pheonix ikr, this is happening in my country too... drama writers don't have much choices but to write template dramas since producers rarely dare to try any new formula
Squid Game writer's said that he spent 4 years to sell it and failed. Netflix willing to buy since it's non local producers
@@moshicute2201 Hmm.. I haven't watched Squid Games, but tbh the plot sounds pretty overused too.. I have watched and read so many things with the same plot over the years. That's one of the reasons I'm not so excited to go and watch it.
Of course, I think execution is far more important than originality, so it could still be really good. Only I'm not too fond of gore or depressing stuff.
xianxia dramas was one I really look forward to since the entire god, demigod, heavenly figures etc.. excite me a lot. TMOPB and Ashes of love were the only two dramas of this genre I thoroughly enjoyed. There were others which was fairly good
same here, xian xia is my prefered and others like nirvana in fire and joy of life, sorry don't know their genre, don't know if they're wuxia or historical drama
No matter how well-executed some of them may be, I absolutely hate how they're just slightly different copies of each other. Are they seriously unable to think up an original story involving deities?
@@svyatoslavrurikovich8831 I think a lot of that has to do with censorship you kinda follow or repeat what you know will work. I've been waiting for Zhao Ge for 5 years I'm willing they tried to be original and didn't pass censors.
@@TetrahedronIX Even if you don't count censorship laws, a massive bulk of actual source novels that these shows are made from all have the same basic plot.
ashes of love, love & demption, ancient love poetry, are i think inspired by TMOPB,
each of them have different touch & twists but concepts are quite familiar for a viewer like me.
I will admit that Ashes of Love was my first Chinese drama. It holds a special place in my heart. It’s interesting about how the xianxia dramas depart from a Chinese perspective. I would love to see more xianxia with varied gods and styling. I would love for a character born a demon to work their way to the top of the pecking order. I often feel torn by the so-called evil characters because are they really evil or are we supposed to like the main characters just because of the set up??? Makes me want to see some
Same. Ashes of love was my first and still my favorite.
I loved that show too ❤
A dream of splendor,new life begins,you are my glory,ming lan, joy of life,nirvana in fire
it's a wonder why "BL" xianxia dramas are more unique in story
Because the people who picked it up, picked it up because they wanted to, not just because of money they could make. (Tho money is always nice) If some rando picks it up and doesnt throw enough effort in, even they know to an extent the die hard fans will eat it, the said fans will stop eating it by episode 3 and cancel it over weibo (Chinese Twitter). They make everyone's lives miserable even attacking actors man. Or at least that's that's I've noticed happen to some sorry saps.
In a case to the uniqueness it is because China doesn't have built in stereotypes for bl's yet like Japan does. Despite the amount of bl's that we can find on novelupdates and such in the grand scheme of things. BL as a whole is far less common and most writers are doing it because they want to, not because it's a guaranteed way to make a lively hood. If you also notice there are far less BL dramas being made in general. There are more lately because of how successful The Untamed was but even now we maybe get one or two. So it's the lack of over saturation and (this works best) formulas that has allowed them to stay pretty different from eachother as a whole.
I think because of the constraints of censorship, they’re almost forced to make the writing subtle and nuanced which is very rarely seen in dramas these days.
@@itamochivargas6233 Yes! And the word of honor was such a success too!!! I hope they make more BL drama adaptations bcz truly, the BL genre in general is quite unique, deep and creative. It’s not only about the romance, it also teaches us life lessons, the hypocrisy and cruelty of the human society. I’m waiting for Hao Yi Xing and I don’t know when it’ll release. It’s adapted from the novel Husky and his white cat shizun and it’s a wonderful yet really sad story! Oh and the novel has a lot of nudity with non consensual themes so beware if you are uncomfortable with that!
Your point about the inherent discrimination based on race is so spot on! I noticed this while watching ashes of love where the harmful racial stereotypes were off the charts and Runyu's character who had absolutely genuine reason for grevance was prosecuted because of his birth origin. An abused, victimised character is completely demonised for standing up for himself which is morally SO messed up and comes frikin that same narrative of racial discrimination
As a xianxia follower, I really appreciate this video. In a way, the current xianxia world is very hierarchical and regressive. I wish they could’ve added more spices to the story. Why does it always has to be about love only? Also, I realize all these gods/fairies who go through reincarnation, have the best time of their lives when they are humans (TMOPB, LaD, AoL, LaR, AoP). What’s the benefits of being gods then when all they do is sacrificing themselves despite having unmatched power? It is upsetting to see the same acts being executed over and over again. Storytellers can go big with this genre if they want, but unfortunately it seems they are stuck now.
whats AoP
@@my_dreamscape i think ancient love poetry
because that's what sells at the moment. Unless the consumers/audience demand more than what we're being given in every show, drama producers and writers won't bother to come up with new ideas.
I grew up with Celtic folklore/Faery stories so watching Xianxia media is absolutely fascinating to me. I love mythology themed stories. Ashes of Love is so gorgeous, it was The first one I watched. The aesthetic blew me away!
I can see why all the new shows are getting repetitive and how frustrating that can be.
I also agree the white deity outfits get old after a while. I always assumed they wore white since they lived in the clouds, but it still, it gets old after a while.
As an Indian who has grown up watching Ramayana and Mahabharata which are basically stories of gods, demigods in the human world, I love Xin Xia drama. It will be better if they could avoid misunderstanding the trope which is very common.
On another note, imagine having Xian Xia style stuff in our industry instead of Saas Bahu brainrot?
@@DeadInside-ct6dl while the saas bahu is brainrot.. they are watched for a reason. I know familymembers who watch them just for the colourful clothes lol. The xian xia stuff seems to be very beautiful and expensive but similarly repetitive.. Ashu does have a point though
@@Sticklemako Honestly, I want more 'immortal god falls in live with human' stories honestly, I'm sure if we dig our mythology a bit, we will find it
Sometimes I think we are too scared to touch our myths with a 10 foot pole
@@DeadInside-ct6dl oh yes, there are so many myths, not only in Hinduism but all the other religions, in the Indian culture that they'd make for a really interesting series. But there's so much sensitivity related to religion and history in our country that it doesn't make for a creative project.
23:50 this is such a good point! it's kinda ridiculous how they keep pushing this high birth = good = beautiful/low birth = bad = ugly. you'd think people who write and produce these stories could go past this archaic trope. not only it's very classist, it's also very unrealistic because human nature doesn't work like that. 90% of times they just feed us these one-dimensional characters who are just, inherently good or evil for no reason.
God xianxia used to be so good. Like it's been years but 仙剑三 still holds up! And love and destiny was also good. But after watching more, I've realized all the current xianxia dramas are all basically the exact same story with the exact same tropes 😭
I can now understand a bit better when The Untamed gets classified as a Xuanhuan and not Xianxia despite envolving cultivators and magic, it is a step below the immortal gods setup. I also thought of it when thinking of how they do use brighter and darker colors and darker sets. So it got me curious thinking, would that type of aesthetic if it came up again, already be exciting for you? Word of Honor I remember also had very flamboyant clothes for the lady ghosts and other characters and I appreciated it a lot (I know its Wuxia, just comparing costumes and design at this point). Thanks for another great video
What's Xuanhuan?
@@PichuElric Xuanhuan (玄幻 xuánhuàn) - literally means “Mysterious Fantasy”. A broad genre of fictional stories which remixes Chinese folklore/mythology with foreign elements & settings.
Untamed is also wuxia right?
@@tasnimsiddique1228 Not really. Untamed has some elements that resemble "magic" in it that are not usually seen in wuxia. Wuxia usually involves martial arts only and whatever does seem out of the ordinary to us (westerners) like the flying or some qi healing etc is seen as a result of achieving high level in martial arts. Wuxia relates directly to the idea of martial arts heroes. The cultivators seen in xianxia series would be seeking immortality etc, which is why xianxia involves immortal gods. Untamed seems like is somewhere along the way. I mever saw it as wuxia, but i guess it's not xianxia either. I've seen most sites describe it as xuanhuan though I'm not sure what the western mythology elements ate in it.
@@MarthaBritoatriz
probably Untamed did not contans the western mythology elements like elves etc, but the main hero is close to the western understanding of trickster archetype. This makes it more xuanhuan genre
One of my favorite scenes from Evernight was when Arthur Chen's character actually verbalized the fact that people assumed because he was so powerful, he must have been the son of a slaughtered noble when, in fact, he was the son of the servants.
I really liked that as well.
That moment actually got me. Evernight was one of those epic adventure. I am loving the plot each time.
.....its action sequences were good but its plot is laughable.
On the social stratification part in Xianxia, I actually never attributed it to Western influence, I thought it was a representation of the social structures In China through many eras, where your value and power were built on your birth and the division between classes was extremely strong. So finding it them again in xianxia world building did not make me rise any of my eyebrows !
I had the same impression. Even if one assumes the character does not believe in "destiny by birth" and they live in the time where commoners could move up the ranks better, they would admit social mobility is extremely difficult and often times downright impossible without currying favors or scheming.
I agree with you that social stratification in Xianxia is a reflection of current Chinese society. But social mobility used to be high in China compared to in the West. Social stratification is more of a recent phenomenon that suits the CCP's agenda. I'm Chinese and was educated "王侯将相宁有种乎" (Is there anyone born as a king, duke, general or minister?) when young, but in 2019 I read that this story was deleted from Chinese textbook. Currently, as far as I know, dramas that tell stories about rebellions or social movements have trouble getting past censorship even if they're set in ancient times or fantasy world.
Different levels of social stratification have always been the reality in China, no matter ancient or modern. Even though social mobility in China nowadays is much better than ancient times, familly wealth, social status and influence still impacts a lot. Stratification has always been the reality, but mobility is what everybody wants. That's why those ancient stories were famous and got passed on to present times. The tropey stories created nowadays won't be classic in the future.
(Correction to Aiai's comment: The ruling party of China is called the Communist Party of China (CPC, not CCP), and they want social mobility, not stratification. They don't want regime change, but they do want social mobility.)
@@wsytch4879 1. CCP is the abbreviation of The Chinese Communist Party which is also the right term. 2. Social stratification is the reality all over the world, but China had more social mobility than the West in ancient times through its national exams and officials selection system. These traditional myth stories were not just good wills from the people but partly based on reality and it's the main reason why traditional Chinese myth is so different than that of the West. 3. Some of CCP's stance on social mobility has changed in the last 20 years. It was too arbitrary of me to say that they didn't want social mobility but it's not as simple as they only care about regime change because some things are intertwined.
@@pzhlucia 1. The official name of the party is the Communist Party of China, not the Chinese Communist Party. The latter is not used in official documents and reports. "CCP" is adopted by many Western media, but it doesn't mean it's correct. 2. You are correct that there's more social mobility in China than the West in ancient times. And part of the reason those stories got passed on is that there was hope, even though not much. But you can't deny that social mobility in modern China is much better than ancient China, right? So you got what I mean. 3. The "change" of CPC's stance on social mobility that you said is not reflected in any offical document or policy. So, what you said is just not convincing at all.
This is why I found Donghua Dijun in TMOPB really fascinating, because he was an elevated being who had to rediscover his humanity through falling in love - but unfortunately that arc wasn't the best-written
That’s the series which introduced me to this genre and, so far, still love it as the first time around
not gonna lie…the squirrel in the window distracted me…XD
But this was such an interesting video!
lmaooo the description for Chu Xuanji as "the best killing machine in existence" 😂😂
Well, what do you expect from 'God of War'.
I love her 😌
That took me out 😭🤣
One of my unhappiness is that Avenue X never like LaR. 🤧😂
I actually like how the gods are plain and dull. 😂 To me it shows that materialistic earthy things don’t matter to them. I agree with you on this genre though, too much love and not enough love for the beings.
Your outfit and look is so beautiful today! Love the hair. Chefs kiss! ❤️
I need, like... A whole University course with you as a teacher. I would love every single lesson and topic. 😌✨🌸
i imagine it's also cheaper if you can more easily reuse props/wigs/sets from one production to another without much altering because they're all same aesthetic.
Wow, never thought I'd see the day where Avenue X features a Chinese drama from my country, Singapore! 😄
But absolutely enjoyed this video - I love how you always bring a critical analysis of dramas infused with a historical, cultural and social perspective, and I always learn so much from your videos. They're the perfect blend of edutainment - education yet entertaining at the same time! :)
Thank you very much for this thoughtful essay! Ten miles was my first c-drama, and I was blown away. Then tried to watch the Eternal love of dream, and the rehash is very apparent.
One point concerning the "imperial examination effect": it is actually not unique to China. In old Europe, particularly in France, a PhD in Law followed by a serious administrative appointment would grant you nobility status; the same with outstanding military service.
I am actually addicted to xia xia web novels and there are a lot got great potential for an epic xia xia drama but sadly are not been considered. While xia xia is about letting free of your imagination nowadays it's made with hardly new elements or plot wise. Thank you for dressing up and nice 30 minutes chat😊
Can you recommend some of your favorites? Looking for some reading material.
Yeah even the comedy ones aren't bring picked up, which is a shame. I've been waiting for an adaptation of 'Ascending Do Not Disturb' but it seems like unless you're following the same cookie cutter formula CDramaland producers want nothing to do with you.
@@CeruleanRogue it's always been a problem, even for other medias! mangas, novels, web novels, you name it... producers have no taste! well, some of them. bad to generalize
@@aureliaavalon Even when they pick up good ones, their script writer has no respect for the original work. They blame censorship, but lots of time it’s just lazy script writing. They leave out all the highlight moments or under preform them.
Lol when talked about the costumes ... Ten miles of peach blossom has been Marie Kondoed😆😆😆 all the gods in that world had decided to take on minimalism and they all have a capsule wardrobe.
🤣👏
Yeah, all of them ddnt dressed fancy, i also think its a low budget drama, i think leads faces carried the
'god like' concept of the show.
Loved the video ❤️
Between the really bad CGI and VFX in some cases, the scandals on plagiarism, and the focus on making a quick buck instead of making a really good show and leaving a mark in the industry, I feel less and less inclined in watching Chinese media. Nowadays I mainly focus on modern series to at least try to improve my Chinese and hopefully still find a good show, or watch period dramas, but Xian Xia and Wu Xia are genres I'm basically avoiding now.
I also think when you have series with 40+ episodes it doesn’t help either. The pacing gets too slow or there’s so mich filler the plot gets convoluted.
I'm a sucker for long videos by Avenue x
Let's go
When you brought up that "good character depends on your birth" part, it reminds me of how I feel about The Untamed's Xue Yang and Jin Guanyao.
I love the show and I'm watching it for the third time since it's my comfort series, but now I can't help but feel that it's unfair for these two characters to be treated like the worst scum. Sure the show portrayed the Jins and Wens can be horrible people, but we only get to see Xue Yang and Jin Guanyao's being severely punished by the protagonists. Xue Yang brought up an excellent point that the cultivator clans don't give a damn about people of lowly birth. Even if they're righteous people they don't see how poverty can lead to crime. Being able to choose righteousness and good behaviour is actually a privilege.
"Good character depends on your birth." This is literally the thing the characters disprove over and over again. The whole theme of the story is "Choices and their consequences, regardless of origin."
If you don't believe me, lets see a few examples.
Wei Ying: Called as the Son of a servant for his entire life basically.
Jin GuangYao: Called as the Son of a prostitute for his entire life basically.
WWX: Was not officially recognized as an adopted son, wasn't even allowed to wear purple-colored Jiang robes by Madam Yu. Certainly wasn't treated as such either.
JGY: Poor boy was not allowed to be officially a part of Jin sect either. Certainly wasn't treated as such either.
WWX: was abused and whipped by a high class spiritual weapon Zidian constantly because of her jealousy of a dead woman.
JGY: No constant extreme physical abuse for long periods of time as per canon.
WWX: Mother was constantly badmouthed for character by both Madam Yu and Lan Qiren. Could not defend her because no one bothered to tell him about her at all except for insults.
JGY: Mother was constantly badmouthed for character by others. Could not defend her due to helplessness.
{This is where individual decision and choice diverge}
WWX: Decided to not care about other people's opinion and took a pledge to "be righteous and live without regrets."
JGY: Put all his self worth on power. Excused his actions as seeking a fathers approval. Eventually had no problem killing said father though.
WWX: When things went wrong, the main focus was on protection. Protect Mian mian. Protect Jiang Cheng and Yanli. Protect Wen Qing and her brother. Protect the Wen remnants, A-Yuan and so on. The saga never ends.
JGY: When things went wrong, went on to cross all moral limits of murder, framing and incest to get power and killed his own little son to keep that power. Later killed his wife too when she found out about that. Destroyed the self trust of the only person who trusted him without question, Lan Xichen by killing Nie Mingjue.
Also, he's not "treated like scum" by the protagonists, not even once. By this line, I don't know if you even watched the same Untamed I did. The expressions of both Wei Ying and Lan Zhan's faces when the crowd was turning against Jin GuangYao at the end said clearly that they were far more disgusted by "the mob" that JGY himself, even after all that he did to them.
The protagonists also didn't "severely punish" him? They just exposed his crimes to clear Wei Ying's name coz.. you know....he was framed... Sorry but i really didn't understand this one. JGY was killed indirectly by Nie Huaisang, whose brother he killed mercilessly. He did have that one coming. Killing peoples siblings is a sure way to die by some cold revenge I tell you.
And what do you mean the Jin and Wen weren't punished? JIn Guangshan died. Wen Ruohan was killed. Wen Chao was killed. Wen Zhuliu was killed. Jin ZIxun was killed. Wen Xu was killed too....
If you want to hear the parallels of Xue Yang, I can do that too.
Xue Yang and Wei Ying, both lived on the streets as children and suffered. Both hated by the world for pursual of the dark path. Both wear black and are completely shameless lol. But that is where the similarities end.
{Divergence in choices and principles again}
Xue Yang killed a whole clan for one finger of his left hand. As revenge.
Wei Ying also took revenge on Wen Clan but only on those responsible for his pain like Wen Chao and his minions. Not innocents like Wen Qing and Wen Ning. He even freaking went and adopted a Wen child!
But some would say it wouldn't be fair to compare them since Wei Ying got adopted.
Okay then, lets take a look at A-Qing, a street child with the bamboo stick who's pretending to be blind so that she can steal money from people. THIS is desperation of poverty, of survival. Not torturing a whole clan by peeling off their skin one by one and enjoying it, like Xue Yang did.
And please don't give me that stuff about living on the streets. Both A-Qing and Wei Ying spent their childhoods on the streets too. A-Qing was poor too. She had to get by by stealing and deceiving people by pretending to be blind which is UNDERSTANDABLE. She had to cleverly lie, cheat, steal, frame to get money. Are they crimes? Yes. But the poor girl had to survive somehow!
But Xue Yang.... he indirectly blinded Xiao Xingchen by manipulation, took advantage of his compassion and eventually made him kill innocents as well as his best friend Song Lan unknowingly so that the poor man committed suicide by slitting his own throat in grief when he found out? How do you even defend that? Like wow. This is just beyond revenge or survival now. Its senseless cruelty. Its insanity. At this point I don't even have words left to explain.
Please don't take this as confrontational. THIS IS JUST FOR FUN. and a little bit cuz i wanted to rant about it haha.
But I just couldn't see you go about believing that so... this wall of text happened lol.
I sure hope you read this and reply with a similarly long wall of text to see your point of view cause I am open to changing my opinion if i missed something.
@@lonesoul17 your long explaination and comparation is so👌👌👌👏👏👏
It's really well written. It just relies on the reader to look beneath the narrator's POV.
Wei Ying is an unreliable narrator to begin with. Let's look at the Jiang's for an example.
Madam Yu is a crazy abusive raving b*tch who gets kicks from whipping an orphaned child. But Wei Ying respects her power so we overlook his abuse because he doesn't ruminate on it either. And because she's a 'strong independent woman' almost all is forgiven. She gets away with abuse because she's the sect leader's wife.
Fengmian is even worse. He turned a blind eye to Wei Ying's abuse and ignored his children to keep a false sense of peace. But Wei Ying loves him and is eternally grateful for being rescued so his willfully ignorant or pretends to ignore Fengmians neglect.
Jiang Cheng is madam Yu at her worst. He's jealous and insecure so he takes it out on Wei Ying. He went on a murder spree after Wei Ying's death looking for "demonic cultivators" but no one called him out because he's "sect leader Jiang" and Wei Ying loves him so we also ignore this and accept Wei Ying's flimsy excuses made from self loathing and love.
Yanli is Fengmian at his worst. Content with mediocrity, eager to turn a blind eye as long as the is peace. Always expects Wei Ying to compromise and soothe Jiang Cheng's and madam Yu's ruffled feathers but never the other way around. So insecure that she allowed Jin Zixuan to treat her like trash all her teenage life and never once stood up for herself. But Wei Ying adores her so she might as well be a goddess.
All these are in the novel and speaks heavily on how rotten the gentry is . We only see the ones that go overboard like the Wen but so quick to ignore what is considered smaller infractions by the gentry to commoners which would not be so easily forgiven if it was done by commoners to the gentry. Instead of speaking about how "good birth=good person" it's more about how money and power allows people to get away with almost anything.
@Bylee Malox You took the words literally out of my mouth. I wanted to add this to my comment too.
"Called as the Son of a servant for his entire life basically. Was abused and whipped by a high class spiritual weapon because of Madam Yu's jealousy of a dead woman. So used to constantly being put lower in value of his life that he gave his whole life's work to his so-called brother. Even on the day of Lotus Pier attack, all Madam Yu and Jiang Fiengman had to offer him was an order to keep _thier children_ safe, no matter the cost to himself. And somehow these seem acceptable behaviors to treat a child to the majority of the fandom.
"Yunmeng bros are cool."
"Jiang Fiengman was just a pacifier. Not an enabler of abuse."
"Madam Yu just had a bad temper. And is maybe a lil tiny bit bad haha."
"But its okay at least they're letting him stay there, right?"
Do you why that is? Because the whole story of The Untamed is in the point of view of Wei Wuxian! And these are his views! Of course he wants to think they care about him just a tiny bit too. He has a real low self esteem, which is understandable I guess. The fandom basically drank up Wei Ying's views about every charachter. The trick is to look at the actions of the charachters, not words! The lack of critical thinking never ceases to astound me."
But then i thought it will get too long and unrelated to the original comment so i removed this part ha ha who knew you would say it for me in an even better way :)
i agree with the point about the deities orgods losing sleep on human trivial things. Like take a look at elves and how are they depicted as in many stories, the have more wisdom , magic ,life span and hence they not bothered with trivial things and just do what they gotta do seriously!
I once had to ponder this while writing an essay on Lord of the Rings. I concluded that the three primary causes of death for wood elves were: drowning; falling out of trees; being struck by lightning.
Xianxia just so happens to be by my favorite genre (for both movies, dramas and novels), alongside the Wuxia genre (I like Xianxia more tho). But I totally agree with your points. I'm so tired of all these accumulation of crappy Xianxia genre, especially because this is such a genre which is very unique to China, and it being it's only source is making these stuff.
A 30 minute long video. I’m looking forward to it.
The thing about why chinese mythology also doesn't really work with the western fantasy set up is that when we talk about different beings divided by species is that in these instances we're not talking about gods, like at all. They mostly are like supernatural creatures that embody nature or bring fortune/misfortune and even if they have some kind of abilities, they are seen as folks.
About gods we have very variegated history, but they aren't part of the creatures we see in the north-european western fantasy like the lord of the rings.
Thank you for sharing with us your knowledge about this subject ! I stumbled onto the genre last year and have loved only Ashes of love and Love and Eternity so far ! I suppose there are the only when the middle episodes (15-45) did not have me pulling my hairs off and acting and storyline were compiling !
I'm in love with Chinese animation/donghua "凡人修仙传/Record of a Mortal's Journey to Immortality" and many more of Xian Xia animations. They are just better than real actors.
i just finish the novel.. the novel much more better than the anime
@@sonofyoutube6248 can you tell me about the plot line pls and where you can read it in eng translation?
@@sonofyoutube6248 so maybe i should order it from Taobao
Some of the Donghua are really great. Currently some of the best donghua airing are Douluo Dalu (Soul Land) and Wanmei Shijei (Perfect World).
@@bingming isnt Doulou Dalu Doulou continent?? thedrama with Xiao Zhan? or is it a different drama?
The lack of originality is also a problem in western media now, I think a big problem is most visual medias are looked at right now as a money making venture instead of a storytelling venture.
I feel that the cinematography of xianxia dramas in the present is actually really good. However, I still think that things like characterisation, motif, scriptwriting and mainly, the relationship buildup between the characters, can be improved. This would allow actresses and actors to have access to interesting roles like for example, xue yang from the untamed. These dramas have come a long way but they still have a long path ahead of them.
I. Just. Absolutely. Love. Your very last summary at the very end about the current xianxia genre And the fact that they dun care abt anything besides love and the whole point of the show is just letting them fall in love and proce that they are destined tgt. Regardless of what big words they put it out there. Really. The only diff thing abt xianxia from all other common chi dramas now are the 'destined' and 'reincarnations' bullshit.
I remember speaking with a Chinese guy, and he was absolutely apologist that people who were born poor or not from a well off family had questionable moral character, as for the rich, being able to afford good education tended to be more upright. I told him:
"Bro following your logic than, politicians in most African countries are all good people.Never mind them embezzling tax money into their own pockets while their people starve." Let's just say we never spoke again.
It seems that this idea of rich/pretty=good poor/ugly=bad is very ingrained in theses dramas and some people do believe in that, and I have wondered if this is overall became a stereotype in Chinese society or not.
It’s not like that. These are just dramas my friend
Media, particularly entertainment, is a reflection of some aspects of society, good and bad
😍 I love the hair! Great job on it. You look beautiful. Would love to see more styles or a tutorial.
Seriously needed a video to actually sun up all the things about this genre dramas .. thank you !!
Hope someday we can actually get a drama who breaks this circle
You saying that TMPB started this channel gave me goosebumps because your channel started me on C-drama. I literally had never watched a single minute of Chinese content before I stumbled onto your channel in 2017. Then I look back at the last 4 years and how your channel (as well as me) has grown...
ahahahaha the squirrel omg hahahaha (21:55 in case someone missed it it's too cute!!)
...
btw I love this kind of video the most. I don't have enough time and patience to watch many cdramas but I love to learn stuff like this. It's always fascinating for me how old folklore, myths and culture is adapted in modern times, to see which kind of twists and interpretation come out of it. And I think you really nailed it..within the xianxia genre there is so much potential and room to explore, but the producers always just chose the safe route. I hope some more creative and experimental works will come around in the future and mix the cdrama landscape up a bit!
This is why I love this channel. Deeper discussion on the storytelling
Great analysis! You'd make a brilliant producer💕
First of all... wow, what a beautiful look!! Thanks for dressing up, your appearance blew me away.
HOB is a Xianxia drama and listening to you, I don't have high hopes for the live-action version.
14:29 "naturally divide... because they belong to different races" this is technically not completely true in the Tolkien worlds, but it does appear so in LOTR. They were in different groups/geographical location/landmarks as those locations are suited for a particular race/groups. In many ways it makes sense to human logic when you think about people who lives in different geographical/geological locations having different appearances. The animosity between groups though, was something that happened in the LOTR lore as it was implied that before the appearance of The Ring, the groups were a lot closer to each other.
18:09 "everything... is based on.. who you are at the moment you were born" This is the reason I don't touch the majority of cdramas, not just xianxia. They're #notrelateable
20:08 "...just seem to have to be... white" Two things: When I first migrated to a western country with 4 seasons, people always commented on my brightly multi-coloured dresses which is when I also realized that most people wear... not too many colours and the majority are white or black because black and white are easier to colour-coordinate. Unless you're fashionable or rich, you don't wear a lot of colours. Second thing: I found it amusing that the gods and goddesses seems to be wearing uniforms up there in the upper realm and the colours don't change over time, which make it seem that life is a lot more boring up there than it is in the human realm when colours change with the seasons, various events and trends.
Xianxia in theory is a great genre to play around with, I have yet to see a good actualization of the concept of 'time moves slower in the upper realm than in human realm' where basically in theory up there you can't solve small things that happens because the boat have sailed by the time you try to do something. It's a good conceptualization of an upper management 'helicopter view' of the world where they can see further to decide on direction and strategy, but have little view on human day-to-day, on what's actually going on and how they impact life in detail.
Wow what a thoughtful video! I love how analytical and eloquent you are!!
Yes we needed this video! Your channel got me into xianxia but there hasn't been any good drama from this genre for the longest time 🙄
Ps. Love your look for this video 😍
Costume wise "Empress of China" remains superior to me (it was my first Chinese drama to watch). Wuxia/XianXia dramas never surpassed that drama even if they are taking place in a Fantasy realm.
After reading a few novels I can say that until the Government will not get rid of their strict regulations and censorship there will be no freedom of creativity in the Chinese drama realm.
And I believe this is the reason why everyone goes with an Agreed standard and remake the same type of stories.
They also need to start being more dedicated to their projects and stop producing cheap dramas with silly cheap effects because nobody can take too seriously such dramas. If they don't have the budget to produce an overly complicated high fantasy drama then it shouldn't be done. Don't ruin a good story.
Stick with something more realistic and simple.
Amazing outfit and hairstyle, you look stunning!
Personally, I have no problem with the aesthetics though. It's literally my cup of tea 😅 I like pale colors a lot and especially the color white.
Excellent discussion, as always! Journey of Flower was the drama that pulled me into the xianxia world and the world of Chinese dramas altogether. Dramaland has been a little boring recently (same story different names, in many cases). I will note that it's not just C-dramaland that's suffering-- American movies and books are doing the same (we're getting movies based on fanfictions... that are fanfictions of fanfictions!). Larger production companies/publishers are just so risk averse they avoid telling stories that don't already have an established fanbase.
Great video! Plot and characters are the two major things that get on my nerves because they're so overused, but I still watch the xianxias if they can keep my attention going. 😂
I love the points you made in this video! Your analytical videos are always amazing, thank you. Plus you look absolutely gorgeous!
Girl - this is the type of video I subscribed for. Thank you for all your work in putting this together cause a) you nailed the problems bang on and b) I love the insight into how Chinese vs Western mythos plays into the creation of these stories and how they are executed. For what it's worth, you do have influence over Chinese Dramaland...at least on me because at this point, if your review says it's crap, I'm not watching it, haha.
As for this video, you are right. A lot of the hierarchal power structures that takes place makes no sense. It's not just internally/culturally conflicting, it robs the entire story of any kind of normal tension or dramatic cues you need in a good story. Ashes of Love was the last one I watched - and I nearly gave up because the female lead was ridiculous. Yes, they state she's powerful because she's "born with it" but she never literally grows. A good story would have her literally levelling up and experiencing trials and tribulations to earn that power. But in Ashes of Love, she just...glows up for some reason. This is why, for all its flaws, Love and Destiny remains superior because Ling Xi technically evolved twice during the story - and they used all that time to SHOW her become more powerful and wise. I can live with that - that makes internal sense to the drama. It uses the tropes wisely, rather than just making a whole show out of tropes.
This is so excellent. I request you to continue with such explanatory videos about different genres, etc in future...plz plz plz
I wonder if you'd be interested in making a similar video about the history and current state of palace dramas? I very much enjoyed this video, and I always am fascinated and enlightened by your opinion! I'd love to hear what you have to say about this other genre :)
Avenuex looking like an angry goddess is a mood 👍💕
Nevertheless, I'm still fascinated with this kind of genre, I just like how they have supernatural powers.
wow thanks for highlighting dong you ji, truly brings back lots of memories. I watched it as a kid and recall enjoying it thoroughly back then
This is so insightful - thank you! Also, your outfit looks so beautiful :)
Reasons to love heaven officials blessing… a potential Xianxia that ISNT “template”… but… sadly it’s BL and has a lot of obstacles to overcome to represented as what it deserves
Thank you thank you thank you for helping me sort out my eastern wu/xian xia thinking to my western Hobbit/Lord of the Rings/Marvel😅 Seriously…It was keeping me awake at night. Nobody could help me… until now. Appreciate you dressing up your hair and dress. Makes me proud to be Chinese and its culture. You are my model sophisticated chinese of today who is not confused like the rest of us who live in the west. Thank you 😊
24:00 to be honest this problem happens not only in Xian Xia dramas, but virtually in every other type of drama, and it is frustrating. It is like only the stories of high ranked people or beings are worth to be told.
Hiii can you talk about the story of the BL genre in novels and dramas. For example "the guardian, the untamed, word of honor". They started as a novel yet they came to the drama world 😉
Illuminating. I was totally engrossed; the best 30minuites I have spent this Wednesday. I am so thankful for you
I LIVE AVENUEX VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!! So accurate and so reasonable. I honestly hate how now chinese fantasy dramas lack story, plot, excitement and all round spice. I really pray in the near future that avenuex will be able to be make or be in the production of a Chinese drama, oh my gosh I will be Amazing.
Your outfit and hairstyle are amazing!
I really enjoy watching and learning from your videos. Thank you for dressing up and teaching us. Please do more videos
Thank you teaching and sharing on your channel ! You have greatly helped me find great dramas or avoid others.
Just here to say that you looked absolutely gorgeous here. Your effort definitely wasnt in vain!
Thank you for this enlightening video too
as a chinese who love fantasy genre I think u really hit the point….that explain many awkward feelings I have on today’s Xianxia dramas
TMOPB was the first Cdrama I watched last year. I’m almost ashamed to admit how many I’ve watched since. I loved palace dramas. I remember watching The Last Emperor as a teen and many old Kung Fu movies as a kid. I love all the different beings. I’m an indigenous American, my family sees animals as relations. So, I love that gods, animals, gods, all have important story lines. All I know is that in the past year, all these dramas really kept my emotions elevated in hard times. I don’t know enough to judge anything. 😹 I do see where the story telling has become formulaic. lol “they look like they are going to a western wedding” though I’m ignorant of many things, I was surprised at billowing white and long flowing tresses. Lol at your hamburger helper analogy. I did like The Rise of the Phoenixes (I know, not Xian Xia) for it’s deep characters and interesting twists.
Well, damn. My low birth thing explains everything 😅
Addressing the romance template…
I was watching Evernight and Viki dropped the license for my region. I was very disappointed because by E31, there was still no romance but the story was great!
Thank you for this video.
I’m not really into Xianxia drama, most memorable for me was TMOPB due to Gao Weiguang🤣 thanks for this video, I love Chinese history, even if it’s Xianxia drama history🥰
I have enjoyed the dramas cited in this video, after my first crash landing into Ashes of Love like the phoenix in JinMi's backyard (the scenes next after that were so rip-roaringly funny!) and I continue to do so with some other ones, in the time I set aside to watch more.
I agree with the annoyance at the white colour and too similar or simple costumes. I chuckled in AoL when JinMi appeared in the red-pink lined dress, and met SuiHe dressed in identical fashion, just dismissing the garb as peacock-like. But I much preferred the black outfits in Demon realm, although too uniform, and the tresses were overly childish. Also agree that faces are much too perfect, although Runyu had some pimples that did not get totally hid by the makeup (I still admire Luo Yunxi who is very handsome and an excellent actor, in my opinion). Then again, there was that comical scene when JinMi ripped off the clothes of Xufeng to check his interestingly scarred chest and back, which led to the heavenly treatment through lingzhi kiss😁
As for the complaint about characters often being predestined and not fitting the ideal of being able to come from obscurity and work their way up to power, I would say that destiny has always played a part in even ordinary people's life when Chinese families have the four pillars and eight characters checked for their children and their marriages, and noble birth always existed in Chinese fantasies, if you think of the classic novels or operas, like the Butterfly Lovers, the Peony Pavilion...
I come from reading classic novels, Jin Yong's Condor Heroes in translation, watching old movies and operas, so the xianxia drama codes puzzled me at first, but I supposed it had to do also with the connection to video games. Landscapes often seem to be lifted from such (which is not surprising if Perfect World takes part in production) and much of the fights looked like but fell a bit below what is expected in immersive games : I was a bit disappointed by the Qiongqi monster attacks and part of the hunt, and even by the end battle between the Heaven and Demon realm armies. What I rather liked was the sailings on the Wangchuan river of forgetfulness, although puzzling why exactly gods that can fly as a phoenix or teleport really would need that antiquated means of transportation - also, traditionally, this 忘川河 is at the end of the HuangQuan Road 黄泉路in the underworld, and the river is spanned NaiHe Bridge 奈何桥 etc So that boat was indeed a nod to the Greek Styx and Charon's boat? But since this was the occasion to behold beautiful shimmering colored animation CGI, I just sat back and admired while JinMi was cutely dumped out of the sleeve, stumbled and fell sitting in position without help on her first journey there. I also smiled when Xufeng grudgingly prevented her from falling into the treacherous water when they landed: catching the heroine when she stumbled was cleverly done there, and the gleeful dialogue snippet on Demon market between the three main protagonists remains one of my favorite.
My favorites in the Chinese fantasy or mythology categories that I used to watch before these xianxia dramas were among others (further to the two which I mentioned before) : White Snake Chinese long opera versions, Journey to the West/Monkey King operas, the animated classic 大闹天宫 (Uproar in Heaven, from 1961; which was perhaps the first Chinese movie I watched back in my youth) , Prince Nezha’s Triumph Against Dragon King from 1976 which went beyond kid-targeted animation, and some movies that were grounded in Chinese mythology like The Legend of Lu Ban (the black and white version of 1958 directed by Sun Yu) and before and after that the movies around Chinese ghost stories, and a number of wuxia movies out of Taiwan, Hong Kong etc until House of Flying Daggers (2004 movie directed by Zhang Yimou).
I was from early on interested in Daoist lore and hexagram predictions, and more attracted to the oriental notion of fluid evolution and becoming than that of western ontology "being" that are often opposed in philosophy.
Of course, all that has to be sources of current xianxia stories and dramas, but I look forward to watch something different, if it can be done in xianxia or xuanhuan. Only grouching (but not that much) that some dramas are really really (over-)long : before 2020, I would probably not have had the patience so sit for 30-60+ episodes, since I never was a soap opera fan. On the other hand, this had me admire the willing exercise in patience and tolerance for formulas from Asian or friends of Asia viewers, and realize that in the West we value perhaps too much brevity, speed and rash action.
Yes! I agree with you totally! I haven't watched many xian xia dramas but while I was watching I kept thinking these characters don't behave like they are immortal. They all just act like humans with superpowers. Very few characters were written like they were a higher being.
huuuuuuh. I'm happy I watched this. I'm a westerner thinking about writing xianxia, and trying to connect with half of my heritage. Seeing someone talkinga about the differences and influences is really interesting to me.
Really agree with everything, i’d just like to add that god/神 (shen) usually refers to gods by birth, while immortal/diety/仙 (xian) tends to refer to those that cultivated to become immortal. In both cases to ‘power up’ you usually need to cultivate. Nowadays it seems the meanings of these 2 words has become a bit blurred though
I stumbled upon this video by accident, I know nothing about Chinese dramas haha. I enjoyed it very much, it was so interesting! You brought up some good points and the video was very nicely set out. Also, you look lovely, your outfit hair and make-up is wonderful
From the second you mentioned about Journey to the West and Legend of the White Snake, I know this video is gonna be good lol.
Honestly little to no “Xian Xia” dramas came close to those two in terms of popularity and how legendary it is in my country. I guess most of 80s and 90s-born know those two. Now, it’s difficult to find a similar/popular one (except TMOPB, that drama made me watch xianxia genre again) to match. That’s really too bad.
Anyway, I haven’t watch that 8-gods drama, I think I need to check that out.
Can you do a recap/informal video of actresses/actors again?! Please do Yang Mi! I’m surprised you didn’t do her yet because she was lead in TMOPB and that’s what gave you the idea to do the YT. 😂
For now, she won't, on one occasion she explained that she is afraid to do a biography, so that same person makes a scandal, then she has to delete the video in which she invested her work.
Thank you so much AvenueX for defining and detailing from your point of view the meaning of what the xianxia genre entails! I don’t know a lot about Chinese folklore or its history in the arts 🎭 as I am from America, but I am trying to learn more about your culture and I find it quite interesting! 😁 You have a awesome way of speaking and making your theories very understandable and I really do appreciate that! Even when you speak in your own language, you pronounce your syllables with such a poetic and an ethereal sound that flows as you speak. You speak such beautiful English and I enjoy your comments! Thank you for your honesty and enlightenment!👍🏼😁♥️
as a 90s kid i literally grew up watching the 90s version of journey to the west and legend of white snake, those 2 are really popular here as local tv station broadcasted them, way before kdramas became popular, we used to watch those cdramas. didn't know that was considered as xianxia tho.
I much agree with you regarding the long episodes just to get more money and that's suck. Also hate when they always makes the "misunderstanding" thing happened over and over again and we have already figure it out the ends gonna be like since everyone expected to be a "happy ending". TBH I like the ending of Princess Agent although it sad ending but for me it's an epic one. Anyway, I knew a lot of people disagree with me.
Princess Agents is not a xian xia though.
@@QueenXKnit I know, that's only a sample for being a different genre. Because this days, Xian Xia's story always like a copycat. ML n FL always have an ill fated at the beginning or they have some misunderstanding then at the end a happy ending.
Thank you summing it up so nicely! I appreciate all your hard work & opinions on this subject. China has such a rich history in culture & folklore, they should have pride in ensuring and enriching the international viewers to China's rich history & culture!
Agreed 1000%. Initially xianxia dramas were fresh and fun in the sense that there was room to explore a novel visual, aesthetic, sound, and setting (a world of gods that are not necessarily tethered by the common struggles of humans), which is very different from a usual human-oriented setting/logic. However, over time, it seems like the plot and aesthetic vocabulary of xianxia dramas have become overly played out and synthesized into a few simple lazy set of stereotypes and tropes. People haven't bothered to push that vocabulary much further. Moreover, at the heart of it, the genre's conflict or plot often centers around an inconsistent value proposition. Although about gods/powerful beings that are supposedly powerful or will become powerful, the leads are made to struggle in a very human mortal way (so us mortal audience can relate and easily invest and want to observe their struggles and how they overcome them) against/for their predestined fate or love. Thus, at the end of the day, it's just a classic story setup dressed up a little differently -- and at this point, the "dressed up" part of it isn't as novel as it use to be.
Personally, I don't mind the genre overall. Sometimes I just crave a formulaic xianxia drama that feels removed from the realities of human struggles (but does essentially show a parallel of human struggle in "god" form) -- as long as it's executed well with no nonsensical or major plot issues. Xianxia dramas have become a standardized/commoditized flavor like a standard strawberry or chocolate icecream -- we all know what it's suppose to taste like. I'm fine with that but of course would certainly appreciate effort in pushing the boundaries of the standardized flavor, e.g., give me a single origin dark chocolate gelato instead.
Relatively new subscriber. Also relatively new to C-Dramas, etc. Excellent points about the tendency to anthropomorphize the god characters. Also the formulaic productions (including plots, character tropes, etc.) happens everywhere in all the "hollywoods" around the world. One of the reasons why many people around the world get into other country's dramas I think. People get bored with the same thing dressed slightly differently in the not so veiled attempts for these industries to make money following these formulas. It's why we all appreciate novel stories/story-telling. Really enjoying your channel!
Thank you for this analysis, quite insightful and I hope you’ll do more! 💙
Very well put. Keep it up! :-) But maybe because of "censorship"? Or They must adhered to certain guide lines by the Gov to make it to the screen?
Hi AvenueX, thank you so much for talking about the problem of Racism implanted within Xian Xia dramas. I was not conscious of this issue until you mentioned it. This is very interesting to think about.
Thanks for an awesome video. Your opinion is pretty much how I've felt about xian xia this past decade or nearly two. I've seen several remakes of White Snake, Journey to the East (pretty good for the most part) and while not having seen the 80s Journey to the West yet, I've watched the 90s version. Like you, I somehow just accepted them. Of course, it helps that I love anything mythology, too. But all the new xian xia lately just care about characters falling in love and less about what it means to be a xian or expanding the mythos and... generally being just bad. So, I've stopped watching them until the genre can get their eggs in one basket.
I want long videos please. I can hear all your wisdom all day long. Its much more interesting to listen to you than to watch some of the cliche boring dramas.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts AvenueX! Totally agree with the problems you brought up about Xian Xia. I genuinely hope that in the future there will be a Xian Xia that deviates from these versions with the TMOPB. Even if it is campy, low budget, with rookie actors, average script, that's also fine. Something different!
Love your styling in this video with the pop of red! :)