@@Rhinoceros3d although i did not understand why the use of shrinkwrap , why not just copy the nurbs objects , boolean everything together then use Quadremesher to turn it into a mesh that is ready for 3d printing and also has far better topology than the mesh generated with Shrinkwrap ,
@@mohameddawood1720 you missed the part about leaving the parts un booleaned, or untrimmed and overlapping so you could iterate easily if design changes needed to be made. Shrinkwrapping overlapping parts saves a ton of time undoing trims and booleans if adjustments need to be made once you get your first print. It's specifically useful if your end goal is 3d printing. quadremesher is super useful if you need to organize the topology, say to convert to a subd, or transfer to a digital sculpting program like zbrush, but for prints, a regular unorganized triangle mesh is actually preferable in my experience.
@@Rhinoceros3d i am not sure i got this right , but my point is : i have a NURBS model consists of multiple parts and i want to 3d print it , and i need a workflow so i can make design changes easily and in undestructive way , so basically i will make a backup copy of the original non booleaned NURBS model where everything is overlapping and not joined ,and hide it , then just boolean everything together to the other copy then quadremesh it so it can be 3d printed as a mesh, and if there were design changes i would get back to the original backup and do the modifications then re do the same steps of quadremeshing , i am 100% sure i am missing something here , but cant seem to get me head around what is special about shrinkwrap compared to the workflow i explained above , in both workflows you are turning a NURBS model to a mesh to 3d print , and in both methods you can go back to the original model to make design changes , but the mesh generated by quadremesher is better than the mesh generated with shrinkwrap
@@mohameddawood1720 shrinkwrap avoids you having to make the 2nd copy that you trim and boolean together. Simply shrinkwrap the first untrimmed un booleaned model to get your shrinkwrap mesh. if you have to iterate, you simply pick up where you left off on the first model. but if your workflow works for you, by all means keep at it! I only show you the tools, you decide how best to use them for your own workflows-
AWESOME as always. dear kyle ,still waiting for that productive video like a toy from designing to mold design, showing Rhino powerfull tools regarding to its competitors like draft analysis , ribbon offset and etc, as you told you will think about it and it would be in multiple parts. please MC neel let kyle roll over the you tube with his skills. thanks
@@Rhinoceros3d sure it needs couple of sessions and it would be something different from all getting started with rhino series.hope you finally decide to do it .thanks
This stuff is very cool, but is it possible to model something and make it more ‘professional’ something suitable for a portfolio with all the tiny screws and stuff
that's a much bigger question than I have space to answer here- but the quick answer is, this model would go to a mold designer and be evaluated and inevitably modified for creation of a mold. The back and forth between design and production engineering is a dance as old as time, and it's critical to work closely with the folks who are going to be cutting the steel to insure a quality product is created. that said, this demo model is worlds away from what it would need to be for a production model as I took no consideration for draft, parting line, electronics packaging, cost, etc. etc, etc..
@@christiangruening352 I worked in that capacity for 20 years- my best advice is to partner with an engineering partner who specializes in this type of work. Designers typically focus on one part of the project, and engineers focus on the production parts. The other option is to audit some engineering classes at a local college- It's a huge subject, a few tutorials will only let you know what you don't know. ;-) I was lucky to have some great folks to partner with
@@Rhinoceros3d Hi, I appreciate your feedback. I have an engineering background (Diploma of Mechatronics and BSc in Mechanicsl Engineering). Thus I know the traditional mechanical guidelines and ways as well as „traditional“ CAD Software like Autodesk, Solidworks, Fusion. Recently a friend recommended Rhino as an alternative with a different approach to design and engineering. I really like the various design features of Rhino. For me It is like working with clay compared to „traditional“ mechanical CAD which feels like working with Metalsheets (hope you get what I mean). My personal only issue I can’t get my head around in Rhino is how to do assemblies in Rhino and how to derive „classic“ 2D CAD. E.g. for the controller of this tutorial after or before this design I would have split up the Thumb sticks, Buttons etc. As seperate objects so they can be handled separately in production (e.g. 3D printing). Maybe that use case makes it a bit more clear where I am headed. Basically design for 3D printing with assemblies.
@@christiangruening352 ah, sorry for misunderstanding- Rhino as a surfacing program does not have assemblies and does not work on a part/assembly paradigm. you can certainly do that to some extent with layers, but many of the parametric features that engineering software has (and the limitations that come with them) are not part of rhino. I always try to look at product development software like a wood shop... you need all the tools to make a great piece of furniture, Rhino provides the surfacing, another software may be the right choice for mold development or mechanism design. Using the best tool for the job at hand is part of the decision process each designer/ engineer must make for themselves.
Thank you for the video, it was very helpful. I just wanted to ask you a question, I tried following the process and building this along with you but every time I had to add an edge to the SubD (loop or single edge/vertex) it didn’t work. The command would just show the preview of the edge line, but after clicking enter the command would just not work. Do you have any idea on how this is possible? Thank you again!!
depends on the model, typically speaking a well sorted box mode will result in a well sorted smooth mode. there are however, as with all guidelines, instances where this guideline can be ignored, like if you are doing a very low face count model with lots of curvature. In that case the box mode can get pretty wild. it all comes down to your result.. if you get what you wanted, then you are winning. I winge on about box mode because making an unintentionally tortured box mode can make smooth mode difficult to edit later, and introduce weird inflections that you won't be able to sort in smooth mode. The solution is very often simply untying the knots you made in box mode, and adding a few edges as needed to get more detail.
Thank you for your time. Actually, When you have reached the final and desired shape with this number of faces and due to the high curvature of your model, why would you want to waste time and do extra work. And of course, there are no very special and complex curves, indentations and protrusions in your model that require additional edges. But whenever I did this, everyone said it was wrong! And finally, there is no problem with rendering?
@@halmirath if it works for you, it works period. Rules are made to be broken as long as you understand what the rules are and why and when to break them. sounds like you have a good system that works for you so carry on and make great stuff!
Maybe I misunderstand this app, but I wonder what this is good for? You can then print a game controller model, it’s outer shape, ok. But what if I want to actually want to produce a functional game controller, where I need all the single pieces of it?
Working with subd is very inconvenient. My opinion is that it is better to do the subd in a polygonal program, for example Blender or Cinema4D (where it will be much faster and better), then import it into Rhino and continue working further. And most likely the problem is that you don’t understand topology, otherwise you would have done everything differently from the very beginning, rather than making a bunch of changes just like that. Sorry for my statement...
Do you have like a rule or a preset where you decide are you going to model with subd or nurbs , I always struggle with this , when i wanna start modeling i am thinking should i go NURBS or subd , Can you share your decision process on how do you approach the model MENTALLY before even touching the mouse , Because the problem with most tutorials on YT that they teach you the technical stuff , but rarely anyone explains his thought process on how to approach each model , it's something closer to Chess or RTS games , its not effective to make your decision on the fly , you gotta have a workflow planned in mind and each surface you create should be relatively calculated move , Since you are a Hardcore gamer you might feel me , Some tutors just open a reference image and start drawing and doodling each surface and its going to connect with other surfaces before modeling , This is exactly my problem , i know most of the tools and techniques but whenever i wanna start modeling a relatively complex object , i get lost on how should i start , Now i know you model these objects without preparing them to show us the mistakes and problems each one of us might encounter and teaching us how to fix them on the fly
It's kindof a feel I've developed over the years- Typically speaking, if the forms are very organic and have lots of blending surface changes, I'll lean towards subd. (more clay like in its creation) If the model could basically be made from sheets of paper (something I did a lot as a kid) then I'll tend towards nurbs. I also mix styles a lot and will 100% add subd parts to a nurbs model, or vice versa. I also often will model forms in subd with creases at the major transitions, then convert to Nurbs and add mechanical fillets for more "precise" looking subd models. The rule is, if you get the shapes you wanted, you are doing it right. :-)
as you are well aware, doing a production part takes much longer then an hour-ish. The idea with these videos is to show techniques you can incorporate into your skill set and extrapolate them into your production workflow. You are 100% correct this is not a production model. BUT...the techniques shown here are what I use every day for my production parts.
@@Rhinoceros3d Cool. love your vids. Very good. Just need a little more depth. Even if you did one portion of the part to get it to a final seperate part rather than all as a whole part.
I have an unsolicited suggestion for these training videos. What if you have someone else draw the sketch for you to model in Rhino? This could provide viewers with an experience closer to that of a junior designer, where they receive a sketch and must figure out the modeling process on the spot. It might offer a different perspective for learners.
Subdivision is bullshit, these are not precise and dirty (sloppy) forms of topology with degeneracy of curvature, which create problems in the production of design. Explore clean ways to model surface topology. Clean patches with professionalism create better results and success. You have to control the curvature and transitions of the shapes to be the best.
@@aaryan3411 Try to make complex geometry with subdivisions, then create an offset. I have encountered many times that I wanted to make the wall of the case 2-3 mm and it did not create a wall offset. What kind of 3D printing are we talking about? It depends on your luck... I had to redo everything in the classic way in order to get the case for 3D printing.
@@Rhinoceros3d I like your content, you are a professional and I'm not a hater. But there are points that are not very good for design in real production, this is very important to note, because people lose money and time.
@@dydmp send us any models that misbehave- we’d be happy to take a peek and suggest workflows, or if rhino is failing, we’d use it as an opportunity to improve our tools. Tech@mcneel.com is the best way to reach us with any issues that need sorting.
So many notes to take, thanks again Kyle! Will be going through all of the SUBD tutorials in the playlist, incredibly helpful.
Great to hear! thanks for watching- more coming!
Oh my God!!!
I was searching the whole last week for how to make a Ps controller , and you came just in time ❤
hope it helps! post your results in our gallery, I'd love to see them!
@@Rhinoceros3d
although i did not understand why the use of shrinkwrap , why not just copy the nurbs objects , boolean everything together then use Quadremesher to turn it into a mesh that is ready for 3d printing and also has far better topology than the mesh generated with Shrinkwrap ,
@@mohameddawood1720 you missed the part about leaving the parts un booleaned, or untrimmed and overlapping so you could iterate easily if design changes needed to be made. Shrinkwrapping overlapping parts saves a ton of time undoing trims and booleans if adjustments need to be made once you get your first print. It's specifically useful if your end goal is 3d printing.
quadremesher is super useful if you need to organize the topology, say to convert to a subd, or transfer to a digital sculpting program like zbrush, but for prints, a regular unorganized triangle mesh is actually preferable in my experience.
@@Rhinoceros3d
i am not sure i got this right ,
but my point is :
i have a NURBS model consists of multiple parts and i want to 3d print it ,
and i need a workflow so i can make design changes easily and in undestructive way ,
so basically i will make a backup copy of the original non booleaned NURBS model where everything is overlapping and not joined ,and hide it , then just boolean everything together to the other copy then quadremesh it so it can be 3d printed as a mesh, and if there were design changes i would get back to the original backup and do the modifications then re do the same steps of quadremeshing ,
i am 100% sure i am missing something here , but cant seem to get me head around what is special about shrinkwrap compared to the workflow i explained above , in both workflows you are turning a NURBS model to a mesh to 3d print , and in both methods you can go back to the original model to make design changes , but the mesh generated by quadremesher is better than the mesh generated with shrinkwrap
@@mohameddawood1720 shrinkwrap avoids you having to make the 2nd copy that you trim and boolean together. Simply shrinkwrap the first untrimmed un booleaned model to get your shrinkwrap mesh.
if you have to iterate, you simply pick up where you left off on the first model.
but if your workflow works for you, by all means keep at it! I only show you the tools, you decide how best to use them for your own workflows-
Huge fan of these videos! I always learning one thing or another in each video. The little jokes here and there never fail to crack me up too!
thanks for watching! more coming!
Crack, love the way you explain, salute from colombia, waiting 4 more videos.
So many commands that are really useful
more coming! glad you enjoyed it!
AWESOME as always. dear kyle ,still waiting for that productive video like a toy from designing to mold design, showing Rhino powerfull tools regarding to its competitors like draft analysis , ribbon offset and etc, as you told you will think about it and it would be in multiple parts. please MC neel let kyle roll over the you tube with his skills. thanks
that would be tough to pull of in an hour- I'll have to do some thinking about how to put that together, maybe a series over a couple of sessions.
@@Rhinoceros3d sure it needs couple of sessions and it would be something different from all getting started with rhino series.hope you finally decide to do it .thanks
I will practice right now, look you make the model so easy, thanks a lot.
Post your result on the forums! I love seeing when people model this stuff- www.discourse.mcneel.com
@@Rhinoceros3d thanks for the advice, I will make the model more beautiful than you have done, haha.
@@rhinoXlab a low bar for sure, but I look forward to seeing your results!
cool tuto ! very chill i loved it
thanks for watching! glad you enjoyed it-
@@Rhinoceros3d im french and their is not a lot video about rhino in france so thank u ! your voice is easy to understand
merci!
holy mother of mercy thankyou for this vid
Thanks for watching!
Could you please make more videos on advanced surfacing for industrial design ? Products like headphones, drill machines,etc.
lots of this stuff already in the bank on our channel, anything specific you are looking for?
@Rhinoceros3d i am mainly looking for headphones, vr devices, gaming mice , etc consumer electronics with complex surfacing with nurbs approach
@@manav3113 hit me with a sketch or two of what you are thinking here: discourse.mcneel.com/t/video-suggestions-hit-me/181102
"that's not what a dual shock looks like" I do that exact same voice lol
not a dual shock...that is trademarked... it's a fictional "game controller"..
This stuff is very cool, but is it possible to model something and make it more ‘professional’ something suitable for a portfolio with all the tiny screws and stuff
of course, but not in an hour and 20 min.. ;-)
@@Rhinoceros3d is a tutorial possible 😅? I’m looking for something more complex being done
@@aaryan3411Yeah it will be great
@@skaa9217 you do you- I just show tools and process, what you do with them is all up to you.
Very cool video!! Does these commands work in rhino 6 too? cuz i had a hard time
v8 has several features that v6 does not. Subd is a v7 feature, and shrinkwrap is a v8 feature.
Thank you so much :) Maybe I am stuck in my little engineering brain. But how do I push that design now to production?
that's a much bigger question than I have space to answer here-
but the quick answer is, this model would go to a mold designer and be evaluated and inevitably modified for creation of a mold. The back and forth between design and production engineering is a dance as old as time, and it's critical to work closely with the folks who are going to be cutting the steel to insure a quality product is created.
that said, this demo model is worlds away from what it would need to be for a production model as I took no consideration for draft, parting line, electronics packaging, cost, etc. etc, etc..
@@Rhinoceros3d thank you so much for your answer. Is there a tutorial or a training available for a one man army? :)
@@christiangruening352 I worked in that capacity for 20 years- my best advice is to partner with an engineering partner who specializes in this type of work. Designers typically focus on one part of the project, and engineers focus on the production parts.
The other option is to audit some engineering classes at a local college- It's a huge subject, a few tutorials will only let you know what you don't know. ;-)
I was lucky to have some great folks to partner with
@@Rhinoceros3d Hi, I appreciate your feedback. I have an engineering background (Diploma of Mechatronics and BSc in Mechanicsl Engineering). Thus I know the traditional mechanical guidelines and ways as well as „traditional“ CAD Software like Autodesk, Solidworks, Fusion. Recently a friend recommended Rhino as an alternative with a different approach to design and engineering.
I really like the various design features of Rhino. For me It is like working with clay compared to „traditional“ mechanical CAD which feels like working with Metalsheets (hope you get what I mean).
My personal only issue I can’t get my head around in Rhino is how to do assemblies in Rhino and how to derive „classic“ 2D CAD.
E.g. for the controller of this tutorial after or before this design I would have split up the Thumb sticks, Buttons etc. As seperate objects so they can be handled separately in production (e.g. 3D printing).
Maybe that use case makes it a bit more clear where I am headed. Basically design for 3D printing with assemblies.
@@christiangruening352 ah, sorry for misunderstanding- Rhino as a surfacing program does not have assemblies and does not work on a part/assembly paradigm.
you can certainly do that to some extent with layers, but many of the parametric features that engineering software has (and the limitations that come with them) are not part of rhino.
I always try to look at product development software like a wood shop... you need all the tools to make a great piece of furniture, Rhino provides the surfacing, another software may be the right choice for mold development or mechanism design. Using the best tool for the job at hand is part of the decision process each designer/ engineer must make for themselves.
Thank you for the video, it was very helpful. I just wanted to ask you a question, I tried following the process and building this along with you but every time I had to add an edge to the SubD (loop or single edge/vertex) it didn’t work. The command would just show the preview of the edge line, but after clicking enter the command would just not work. Do you have any idea on how this is possible? Thank you again!!
send us the model to tech@mcneel.com and I'll take a peek!
23:30
Is there a issue I have that is bigger and tortured in box mode? Shouldn't we create more edges?
depends on the model, typically speaking a well sorted box mode will result in a well sorted smooth mode.
there are however, as with all guidelines, instances where this guideline can be ignored, like if you are doing a very low face count model with lots of curvature. In that case the box mode can get pretty wild.
it all comes down to your result.. if you get what you wanted, then you are winning.
I winge on about box mode because making an unintentionally tortured box mode can make smooth mode difficult to edit later, and introduce weird inflections that you won't be able to sort in smooth mode. The solution is very often simply untying the knots you made in box mode, and adding a few edges as needed to get more detail.
Thank you for your time.
Actually, When you have reached the final and desired shape with this number of faces and due to the high curvature of your model, why would you want to waste time and do extra work. And of course, there are no very special and complex curves, indentations and protrusions in your model that require additional edges. But whenever I did this, everyone said it was wrong! And finally, there is no problem with rendering?
@@halmirath if it works for you, it works period. Rules are made to be broken as long as you understand what the rules are and why and when to break them.
sounds like you have a good system that works for you so carry on and make great stuff!
Maybe I misunderstand this app, but I wonder what this is good for? You can then print a game controller model, it’s outer shape, ok. But what if I want to actually want to produce a functional game controller, where I need all the single pieces of it?
you do largely the same thing, but in much much more detail, and you'd need more than an hour to do it.. ;-)
Working with subd is very inconvenient. My opinion is that it is better to do the subd in a polygonal program, for example Blender or Cinema4D (where it will be much faster and better), then import it into Rhino and continue working further.
And most likely the problem is that you don’t understand topology, otherwise you would have done everything differently from the very beginning, rather than making a bunch of changes just like that.
Sorry for my statement...
thanks for your input
I will follow the tutorial with enthusiasm and I will send you the model so you can give me your opinion.
great! post it on www.discourse.mcneel.com I look forward to seeing it!
Do you have like a rule or a preset where you decide are you going to model with subd or nurbs ,
I always struggle with this , when i wanna start modeling i am thinking should i go NURBS or subd ,
Can you share your decision process on how do you approach the model MENTALLY before even touching the mouse ,
Because the problem with most tutorials on YT that they teach you the technical stuff , but rarely anyone explains his thought process on how to approach each model , it's something closer to Chess or RTS games , its not effective to make your decision on the fly , you gotta have a workflow planned in mind and each surface you create should be relatively calculated move ,
Since you are a Hardcore gamer you might feel me ,
Some tutors just open a reference image and start drawing and doodling each surface and its going to connect with other surfaces before modeling ,
This is exactly my problem , i know most of the tools and techniques but whenever i wanna start modeling a relatively complex object , i get lost on how should i start ,
Now i know you model these objects without preparing them to show us the mistakes and problems each one of us might encounter and teaching us how to fix them on the fly
It's kindof a feel I've developed over the years- Typically speaking, if the forms are very organic and have lots of blending surface changes, I'll lean towards subd. (more clay like in its creation)
If the model could basically be made from sheets of paper (something I did a lot as a kid) then I'll tend towards nurbs. I also mix styles a lot and will 100% add subd parts to a nurbs model, or vice versa.
I also often will model forms in subd with creases at the major transitions, then convert to Nurbs and add mechanical fillets for more "precise" looking subd models.
The rule is, if you get the shapes you wanted, you are doing it right. :-)
u should go for more embarassing researches haha very helpful 🙏🙏🙏
Can you please share the rhino file😭😭😭😭
thanksss
thanks for watching!
Kyle ... super cool but need a vid on an actual functional part. This LOOKS good but is of no use for production or making it a functional product.
as you are well aware, doing a production part takes much longer then an hour-ish. The idea with these videos is to show techniques you can incorporate into your skill set and extrapolate them into your production workflow.
You are 100% correct this is not a production model. BUT...the techniques shown here are what I use every day for my production parts.
@@Rhinoceros3d Cool. love your vids. Very good. Just need a little more depth. Even if you did one portion of the part to get it to a final seperate part rather than all as a whole part.
I have an unsolicited suggestion for these training videos.
What if you have someone else draw the sketch for you to model in Rhino? This could provide viewers with an experience closer to that of a junior designer, where they receive a sketch and must figure out the modeling process on the spot. It might offer a different perspective for learners.
I need this...i need this rhino file badly😭😭
if only there was a detailed video on how to build it... 🤔🤔🤔
Subdivision is bullshit, these are not precise and dirty (sloppy) forms of topology with degeneracy of curvature, which create problems in the production of design. Explore clean ways to model surface topology. Clean patches with professionalism create better results and success. You have to control the curvature and transitions of the shapes to be the best.
Ok, thanks for watching.
Did you listen to him? He literally said the purpose of this is to demo features and 3D print the model.
@@aaryan3411 Try to make complex geometry with subdivisions, then create an offset. I have encountered many times that I wanted to make the wall of the case 2-3 mm and it did not create a wall offset. What kind of 3D printing are we talking about? It depends on your luck... I had to redo everything in the classic way in order to get the case for 3D printing.
@@Rhinoceros3d I like your content, you are a professional and I'm not a hater. But there are points that are not very good for design in real production, this is very important to note, because people lose money and time.
@@dydmp send us any models that misbehave- we’d be happy to take a peek and suggest workflows, or if rhino is failing, we’d use it as an opportunity to improve our tools.
Tech@mcneel.com is the best way to reach us with any issues that need sorting.