Dylan and Hugh ride London's newest Desiro City and Aventra trains, in the hope of finally answering the question: Which type of train is better overall?
Thank you for the interesting tour of London’s high density/capacity trains, I’d not appreciated all their subtle differences. I must admit I do really like the Elizabeth Line trains their interior colour scheme and layout is really another level and so smart and gentle on the eye.
The Siemens Desiro City class 717 trains running out of Moorgate don't have toilets because they are essentially short haul commuter trains running through parts of North London that don't have a tube service - Enfield, New Southgate, East Barnet, Hadley Wood etc. - and on to South Hertfordshire commuter hubs such as Cuffley and Hertford. The services are those areas' equivalent of the London Overground. The 717s replaced the forty year old class 313s, which also didn't have toilets. It would be nice if they did have such facilities but the aim is to cope with crush loading at peak commuter times; it's not possible to increase capacity by adding more carriages because the below ground stations in the Drayton Park - Moorgate tunnel section restrict the train length to six carriages. Also, because there are only two (underground) platforms at Moorgate, the peak service frequency is severly restricted by how fast you can turn the trains round. So the seating on these trains is arranged to also allow large numbers of standing passengers at peak times, a la underground/overground. And sadly no room for toilets! Agreed the seat comfort is non-existent, but that's down to the Dept of Transport who went through a penny-pinching phase of only approving ironing board seating for new trains at the time this stock was ordered. The same criticism applies to the Thameslink Desiro stock (class 700), even more so because of the long distances these trains cover. BTW, the class 717s on the Moorgate line are exclusive to that line because they have a facility to de-train passengers through the front/rear of the train if the unit is stranded in the Drayton Park - Moorgate tunnel. This is done through a folding staircase that comes out of the front of the driver's compartment. The tunnel is too narrow to facilitate passengers walking between the train and the tunnel wall, so in an emergency they have to exit from the front or rear. The class 700s are not allowed to operate on the Finsbury Park - Moorgate line because they don't have a front/rear emergency exit, and they don't have a signal tripcock as is required for this line. However, the plan is to remove the old LT-style signals on the tunnel section and run the trains into Moorgate using ETCS - the first trains on the ECML to be upgraded to this signalling regime.
I needed to know why they don’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for the main line Train so that they can extend the unused abandoned underground train stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock that includes the class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign them an overhead line and also make them into Five cars per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five cars per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7-Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 8-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into an 11 car per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers. A Stock Trains and also having 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it more Larger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Railway tunnel into a High-Speed Railway lines? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Railway line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. Then put the modernised 11 car per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 cars per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 47 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project if that will be OK for London Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from the Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden more Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly Line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street can they also make another brand new underground train station in Chingford and could they extend the Piccadilly Line and the DLR right up to Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and can they order Every 67 Octagon and Every 37 Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 147MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 147MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units, can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!!!!!, oh can you make all of those Coal Boxes’s 18 Tonnes for all of those 147MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!! so please make sure that the Builders can do as they are told!!!!! And Please do something about these very very important Professional ideas Please? Prime Minister of England, Prime Minister of Australia, Prime Minister of Sweden, Prime Minister of Germany, Prime Minister of Italy, Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.
I was on the Moorgate Northern City Line not too long ago (Heading up to Drayton Park for an Arsenal Programme - Can't get a match ticket!!) and I agree; it just FEELS weird having an ultra-modern, yet very uncomfortable, train on that odd little line. Also, I still find it hilarious that 'Finsbury Park' backwards is 'Krapy Rubsnif' 😂😂
The uncomfortable seats on the class 717s (and on the class 700s) are down to the penny pinching Dept of Transport. The 717s are optimised for crush loading at peak times, as they are essentially local commuter trains. See my longer comment below.
I don’t mind the Alstom Aventra and Siemens Desiro City. Siemens could have built more Class 7xx Desiro City for Southern to replace the Class 455 used on the suburban services in South London and Class 707 that have been transferred from South Western Railway to Southeastern. And SWR to introduce the Class 701 Arterios before the end of this year.
Both train models are great but the only thing I don't like about them are the seats and the lack of tables. These are not a problem while travelling within London but I can't imagine how uncomfortable it is going from around Cambridge/Bedford to Brighton/Horsham on a 700. Thameslink should've kept their 377/5 for these routes at least imo.
@@thetflthreehello how are you all and I have a question for you what trains do you like to travel on and have you been on a fast train like Eurostar or the Gatwick Express
The Greater Anglia Class 720 trains are awful ! The seating is far too cramped- just look at the narrow aisle, and they ride atrociously. You can feel and hear every rail joint which on a modern trains is ridiculous.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for the interesting tour of London’s high density/capacity trains, I’d not appreciated all their subtle differences. I must admit I do really like the Elizabeth Line trains their interior colour scheme and layout is really another level and so smart and gentle on the eye.
Totally agree with you about the 710s not being long enough, especially when they run single 4 car units in and out of Liverpool Street
They are only 4 cars so that they can run in pairs to make 8 cars. Not sure why they don't do that more often though.
Yeah, it’s a waste of time, at the Alstom depot at Ilford, there are 12 8 car units I think they should ass those
looking forward to seeing what the LNR and WMR class 730s will be like
The Siemens Desiro City class 717 trains running out of Moorgate don't have toilets because they are essentially short haul commuter trains running through parts of North London that don't have a tube service - Enfield, New Southgate, East Barnet, Hadley Wood etc. - and on to South Hertfordshire commuter hubs such as Cuffley and Hertford. The services are those areas' equivalent of the London Overground. The 717s replaced the forty year old class 313s, which also didn't have toilets. It would be nice if they did have such facilities but the aim is to cope with crush loading at peak commuter times; it's not possible to increase capacity by adding more carriages because the below ground stations in the Drayton Park - Moorgate tunnel section restrict the train length to six carriages. Also, because there are only two (underground) platforms at Moorgate, the peak service frequency is severly restricted by how fast you can turn the trains round. So the seating on these trains is arranged to also allow large numbers of standing passengers at peak times, a la underground/overground. And sadly no room for toilets!
Agreed the seat comfort is non-existent, but that's down to the Dept of Transport who went through a penny-pinching phase of only approving ironing board seating for new trains at the time this stock was ordered. The same criticism applies to the Thameslink Desiro stock (class 700), even more so because of the long distances these trains cover.
BTW, the class 717s on the Moorgate line are exclusive to that line because they have a facility to de-train passengers through the front/rear of the train if the unit is stranded in the Drayton Park - Moorgate tunnel. This is done through a folding staircase that comes out of the front of the driver's compartment. The tunnel is too narrow to facilitate passengers walking between the train and the tunnel wall, so in an emergency they have to exit from the front or rear.
The class 700s are not allowed to operate on the Finsbury Park - Moorgate line because they don't have a front/rear emergency exit, and they don't have a signal tripcock as is required for this line.
However, the plan is to remove the old LT-style signals on the tunnel section and run the trains into Moorgate using ETCS - the first trains on the ECML to be upgraded to this signalling regime.
I needed to know why they don’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for the main line Train so that they can extend the unused abandoned underground train stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock that includes the class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign them an overhead line and also make them into Five cars per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five cars per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7-Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 8-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into an 11 car per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers. A Stock Trains and also having 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it more Larger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Railway tunnel into a High-Speed Railway lines? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Railway line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. Then put the modernised 11 car per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 cars per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 47 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project if that will be OK for London Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from the Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden more Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly Line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street can they also make another brand new underground train station in Chingford and could they extend the Piccadilly Line and the DLR right up to Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and can they order Every 67 Octagon and Every 37 Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 147MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 147MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units, can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!!!!!, oh can you make all of those Coal Boxes’s 18 Tonnes for all of those 147MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!! so please make sure that the Builders can do as they are told!!!!! And Please do something about these very very important Professional ideas Please? Prime Minister of England, Prime Minister of Australia, Prime Minister of Sweden, Prime Minister of Germany, Prime Minister of Italy, Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.
I was on the Moorgate Northern City Line not too long ago (Heading up to Drayton Park for an Arsenal Programme - Can't get a match ticket!!) and I agree; it just FEELS weird having an ultra-modern, yet very uncomfortable, train on that odd little line.
Also, I still find it hilarious that 'Finsbury Park' backwards is 'Krapy Rubsnif' 😂😂
The uncomfortable seats on the class 717s (and on the class 700s) are down to the penny pinching Dept of Transport.
The 717s are optimised for crush loading at peak times, as they are essentially local commuter trains.
See my longer comment below.
@@johnevans2044 when Great Northern operated the 313s they were so much better than the 717s
Class 720s Are Now In Service With Both c2c and Greater Anglia We Should Also Have Paul Tyremans Name Written One of Grand Centrals Class 180s 👍
I understand why you didn't do it, but it would have been interesting having the Stadler Metro in this comparison (Class 777).
Brilliant video and some interesting points
amazing trip lads....... 3:10 mins Moorgate. Oh lord the route to the creepy Essex Road 🤣
For me there is no debate between the 700 and 345. In my opinion the 700 is better
I don’t mind the Alstom Aventra and Siemens Desiro City. Siemens could have built more Class 7xx Desiro City for Southern to replace the Class 455 used on the suburban services in South London and Class 707 that have been transferred from South Western Railway to Southeastern. And SWR to introduce the Class 701 Arterios before the end of this year.
Both train models are great but the only thing I don't like about them are the seats and the lack of tables. These are not a problem while travelling within London but I can't imagine how uncomfortable it is going from around Cambridge/Bedford to Brighton/Horsham on a 700. Thameslink should've kept their 377/5 for these routes at least imo.
Agreed!
Will you do the 701 and can you visit every station in Kingston upon Thames
Brucie Bonus Guys!
The One-Day Travelcard has been SAVED!!!
We can all breathe again :D :D :D
I prefer desiro city trains
I get to see 701s several times a week. Behined a 47!!!
7103s have 5
Nice why this video was out today instead of Friday
Life got in the way. Sorry! ~ Daniel
@@thetflthree I know
@@thetflthreehello how are you and what trains do you like
@@thetflthreehello how are you all and I have a question for you what trains do you like to travel on and have you been on a fast train like Eurostar or the Gatwick Express
How dare you call my childhood local line “really really bad”
2:13 Hugh’s still mad about the Plumstead race? Skill issue I’m afraid ~ Daniel
Your videos are the best
Are the 321’s still in service?
Nah they went back in may I think ~Hugh
Thanks Hugh
The Greater Anglia Class 720 trains are awful ! The seating is far too cramped- just look at the narrow aisle, and they ride atrociously. You can feel and hear every rail joint which on a modern trains is ridiculous.
I think it’s because of the line they serve
I perfer desiros