Get your KB Morgan Plushie! www.makeship.com/products/kb-morgan-plush Sign up for Nebula at go.nebula.tv/knowingbetter for the discounted price of $2.50 a month! Watch my next video right now at nebula.tv/videos/knowingbetter-four-times-a-day-john-harvey-kellogg
I’m guessing the Indic origins are going to be left out here lol. Vegetarianism in the US, particularly on the west coast is influenced in big part by the longstanding vegetarian cultures of India. Most prominently the Jains, who denounced all harm to animals 3000 years ago
Good vid, I’m glad you kept your mind for the video. I’m surprised that Peter Singer or Alex O’Connor (other UA-camr with philosophy focus) didn’t come up in the 4th wave vegetarian section. Singer does some thoughtful essays and y’all can find podcast episodes with him and critique that vein of work. Thank goodness I have 4 poops a day. 😂
Cereal-related tangent: I think it's really interesting how Kellogg invented the first cereal so his patients could have a plain diet. Now, cereal is so far removed that it is nearly all sugar fortified and has a mile long aisle in the store. 😅
@lostboy8084 I know it was his brother who was responsible for the sugared cereal we have now. But, I just imagine John Kellogg turning in his grave every time I shove a handful of fruit loops in my mouth and take some time for myself. Not necessarily at the same time.
I have a potential theory for why they used silver for the sutures. Silver is a natural antimicrobial. That's actually why it is often a symbol of purity and healing. People believe that’s why silver became tied to folklore in stopping werewolves and vampires in the first place, because they are "impure" humans.
Yea, it was used when the sutures needed to stay for a longer period as it reduces the chance of infection (at least that was the reasoning). There are a lot of other procedures from that time also specifically calling for silver sutures. But I am not a doctor nor medical historian I just read it online
The silver thing is simply because silver was used for all sorts of sacred symbols. It was not the silver that killed vampires and werewolves, it was were it came from.
@@howlrichard1028 No shit, that is exactly their point. Their point was that silver is most well documented to be associated with symbols of health or purity BECAUSE of its antimicrobial properties. These symbols then became co-opted in stories about mythical creatures. They were discussing the potential origins of the myths while youve just said "its there because its there".
imagine the stone age logic tests available at the beginnings of medical history: if you make a needle out of each of the easiest materials to craft with including wood, bone, stone, & the easiest to smelt metals, then dip them in blood & mud & then leave them in a jar for a month, when you check on the results it's clear that only silver & gold look clean enough to use again.
I was raised a vegetarian and my wife was raised a Christian scientist so this video was a wild watch for us. It’s crazy to see the history of belief systems that we grew up with and accepted without question as kids.
i love watching early Christianity videos because of how crazy the old stuff gets. kinda makes you think what things do we believe now that will later seem ridiculous to future generations
@@Dong_Harveynot all Christians. There has, however, been a long lived group of heresies known collectively as Gnosticism. Broadly, they were anti-materialists as some believed the world was created by an evil god called the demiurge. The only way to return to the real God, is to deny everything material and focus only on the Spiritual. While mainline Christianity has always denied this, it has never really gone away and periodically creeps it’s way back in western societies like in the late 19th century.
@@Dong_Harvey Yeah, it's crazy remembering that Christians were the ones who basically founded the progressive movement. I have to assume the shift was because cultural norms trump religious instruction constantly.
@@Dong_Harveymeanwhile that pope Nicholas V portrait is giving you the side eye because he knows he helped issue in the age of capitalism with Dum Diversas and Romanus pontifex
This is just speculation on my part, but he might have been lactose intolerant, apart from being a consummate arsehole. Kellogg went to an insane asylum where he happened to see some inmates who suffered from mental retardation. Basically someone with a toddler's brain development trapped in an adult's body. Obviously, hormones don't care, and they touch themselves quite a bit. Kellogg decided that the reason they were mentally ill was because of masturbation. I imagine he saw someone suffering from indigestion due to being lactose intolerant and decided no one should drink milk.
@@rustomkanishka I'm pretty sure Graham he said that his reasoning was that he believed anything that came from animals was inherently spicy firey & dangerous But if he was lactose intolerant or spent a lot of time around lactose intolerant people than in pointing out milk specifically instead of chicken or something would make a lot more sense, kind of like how people would think syphilis was punishment for having sex since people got in after sex and they didn't have the knowledge of STDs 😅 Just a disclaimer tho, I've only wash like 1/5 into the video so far 😅, I'm going to finish it today tho.
John Harvey Kellogg…what can you say about a man that wrote a whole book about proper sex life while he was an unmarried virgin-and then found enough material for a second volume on his honeymoon
it's like if celibate catholic priests would decide for every one on earth about their sexual life. wait, they do that... while molesting little children and r**ing nuns. gross
In Finland we have this concept of "chips-and-beer veganism", specifically to combat the idea of veganism as a moralistic diet of salad and oatmeal. I'm not vegan but many of my close friends are, some of them are amazing chefs. They also know all the vegan potato chip brands by heart and are very chill about their lifestyle.
Nice to see there are some vegans that aren't freaking Shiite vegans. All the ones I've met act like they deserve the Nobel peace prize and that they're saving humanity. They aren't.
I am surprised that mushrooms were not used in America. In Eastern Europe mushrooms are VERY popular. I also love them. In fact, in the old days it was a survival technique. If you didn't have meat, you ate mushrooms as an alternative.
Mycoprotein took a lot longer to catch-on in the USA as well. Textured vegetable protein was the name of the game for 99% of the US market until maybe 10-ish years ago.
We love mushrroms here in Straya too, but I recently got a rude awakening on the "Meat for Vegetarians" narrative - most fungi we eat have very little protein in them. I'd gone around for most of my life believing they were a good substitute. And they're great for flavour and texture in that role, but if I was meat-free I'd have to find high-protein foods to include to make up for mushrooms' decades of LIES! :) *Omnivore here, and if I'm honest, it's primarily just because I like meat. The cognitive dissonance is real though, so I'm always on the lookout for ethically- (or more ethically-) sourced meat (y'know, to ease the weight on my conscience of the blood debt somewhat). We have a lot of small producers in our area so it's not impossible, though it is some effort.
It's more a sign of how horrible the nutritional situation was, because of course, mushrooms provide ridiculously little nutrition. Their main use was as a spice, not a source of nutrition. You need to eat a ridiculous amount of mushrooms to replace a normal meatless meal, much less a meat meal. Don't think "this is a good survival strategy". Think "we're so low on nutrition that even eating whatever mushrooms you could find is useful enough that it decides who lives and dies". It's better than nothing, but that's a _long_ way from saying "this is a good replacement for meat" :D
@@LuaanTi a spice? What are you on about? They were used as functionally a vegetable, like in chicken and mushroom pies. Just like with peas, they’re not really technically a vegetable but in cooking they’re treated as a vegetable.
@@kaitlyn__L Yep, they're used that way, but that doesn't change the fact that you get little nutrition from it (I was forced to eat a lot of mushroom meals as a kid, don't worry). It's there mostly for the taste and texture, not for nutritional value (apart from a few handy micro-nutrients, granted). There are exceptions, of course, but not every mushroom is a bolette. Bolettes are still peanuts compared to meat, though they do beat most vegetables. But the Ancient Romans already treasured them as a "rare" delicacy; not some leftover junk for the peasants to eat in need :) They're also really bulky, and generally perish very quickly (though of course, pickled mushrooms are very common). It's obvious enough when you dry mushrooms - there's not much stuff left after you get rid of the water and air :) After all, we're talking about the flowering organs of a wild plant. Useful addition to a starved person, certainly (and indeed, many edible mushrooms have been discovered just that way, by starving people looking for anything to put in their mouth). But not nearly enough to actually stave off starvation. Their main use has always been for the aroma, taste and texture. The micro-nutrients do help, of course.
I had a moment during nursing school where i felt like I was going insane. I had previously known about the whole John Kellogg story and sure enough, when I was in a class focusing on Maternity nursing, the subject of circumcision came up. Circumcision was taught as a medically necessary procedure to maintain hygiene and cleanliness. I had brought up the entirety of the Kellogg story and people simply did not believe it at first. They insisted that uncircumcised men were signifcant risk of infection and, "the cheese," from growing. The argument was eventually settled when the professor looked up the information for themselves on the smart board. To give them credit, they did actually change their stance on the subject and apologize to me.
the circumcision is really backwards and I'm surprised people still argue for it. even if the cheese dick thing was real (for a normal western man who showers at least a few times a week it isn't) but even if it was, it's not like you'd cut your ears off to save yourself from having to wash behind your ears. mutilating a child over such a reason is insane.
@@JewTube001 It's because (In their minds) cleaning a dick requires touching the dick, and that's just too much temptation. Serious infections in uncut men raised in religious households was more common than you might think. My father-in-law was honestly concerned our son wasn't circumcised because of the gnarly dicks he saw in uncut men entering the seminary with him. (he left the seminary after a few years). Of course the real solution is clean your junk, and check under the hood, which is how I'm raising my son.
@@mothman8300 I agree, definitely. But I think it would be better to leave that fight till another day, rather than risk gridlock over a losing position.
The “grandmas being obsessed with poop” thing made my jaw hit the floor because my grandma is 100% that old lady. And she was a high school biology teacher, so it must have been pretty dang convincing for her era.
Well, fiber is still pretty low in American diets, so there is something to be said about it. Maybe not for headaches, and maybe not four times a day, but a lot of people would feel better if they were more regular. Probably live longer too, if the studies connecting low fiber diets to heart disease are true.
Oh yeah, you ever seen ads for laxatives? You know how they talk about "regularity"? Only two generations ago it was still believed that if you didn't take a dump _at the same time every single day_ you were seriously ill. Having a "regular" pooping schedule was the "juice cleanse" of the 19th and early 20th centuries.
An old friend was a new-age boi whose mom taught him that he should poop after every meal or he wasn't healthy. It was the 80s so the extreme water drinking hadn't come back around in force yet. Since I have IBS-C, I was naturally "bad" and he was "good" because he pooped 3-4 times a day. They also believed in homeopathy and the usual crystals 'n' goldenseal bs of the late 80s. I got into all that and was a vegetarian (not vegan, but not a lot of animal products) for 5 years. Didn't help my poop, and I still got sick a lot, but it didn't hurt either! I'm working my way back to it, but since I grew up with it, it's hard not to float through the air toward the scent of frying bacon. It's handy that meat's so f'king expensive these days that I rarely buy it. And now I've come to the point where I eat eggs, but I pay for the super expensive "Pasture raised" because free range apparently doesn't mean jack about how much space they have. And you know, chickens are kind of cute so if I'm going to eat them or their eggs I'd prefer it not involve torture. Same with milk and cheese - when I can afford it. I'm not into the pseudo-religiosity of veganism, otherwise it's all good. Just don't try to go all fundamentalist and say it's the "only *moral* way to be." Because browbeating people, it turns out, isn't very effective in convincing them to change. Whenever I watch "That Vegan Teacher" I crave meat, deep fat lard-fried onion rings and a bacon milkshake. It's fleeting, so I don't run to the nearest In-N-Out, but in short, she's clickbait incarnate. She just wants the views, not to change anyone - more a caricature of a real vegan. Like, at least Corey Booker has a sense of humor about it. I've been friends with a dude (The Atheist Comedian, Keith Lowell Jensen) who's been a vegan for over 30 years. I've never seen or heard him try to browbeat anyone into eating like he does. This bit of *fluff* stuff and nonsense rambling brought on by minor brain damage. At least I hope it's minor.
Interesting fact: One of the earliest (possibly _the_ earliest) European to advocate for vegetarian on ethical grounds was Pythagoras (yes, triangle guy), there was a whole religious cult associated with him focused on worshiping the cosmological significance of maths and also, somewhat randomly, vegetarianism.
Actually it was not randomly, it was tied to the fundamental question of "the soul" in that times philosophy, and therefore certain views of the soul (in animals) made Pythagoras a vegetarian. He also was not alone with that in the greek philosophy, where there emerged some philosophical system where animals had a soul the same as humans (in some systems even where potential human souls) and therefor eating Animals was seen as 'moraly' bad.
As a vegetarian, I get depressed if I don't eat well-cooked meals on the regular. Spices, teas and curries are what keep me motivated. Honestly, I cannot stop thinking about how deficient in nutrients the people of former days must have been
Not vegetarian but fresh meals are undeniably great for my personal health. Used to nuke frozen meals since I worked odd hours, but moving within walking distance of a farmers market got me to change to fresh breads and produce. Still like meat, can’t cut it out but I try to eat everything I buy, especially if it’s meat. A wasted chicken breast hurts far more than a rotting tomato for me, I typically cook the same day I purchase most meats unless I got something planned. I keep my fridge scarily empty, just eggs, milk, butter, condiments and two drawers of vegetables.
I've been a vegan for over 20 years, and although I have enjoyed graham crackers and cornflakes, i've gotten a lot more enjoyment out of ginger, garlic, onions, and spices and stimulants in general, including coffee, tea, wine, beer, spirits, and, of course...masturbation. 😁
I went vegan years ago and ended up in a hospital because i didn’t have enough nutrients lol now I’m for the most part a pescatarian (though i also eat other meats on occasion)
What fascinates me most about people claiming that masturbation led to poor health is that people often turn to masturbation as a means of self-soothing, which is something you tend to seek out when under the stress of poor mental or physical health. The association probably didn't come out of nowhere but people had to get weird and judgmental and victim-blamey about it
They're still doing it today! The modern anti-masturbation movement tries to blame depression on masturbation as a consequence of depressed people sometimes masturbating to excess as an attempt to alleviate depression.
From my own experience for being diabetic, masturbation make the symptom worse like I get more sore skin and open wound or scabs which usually it's only appears on my leg then starting to appears on upper body like my hand, chest and my back. This is happen even I'm on diet. This is may sounds disgusting to read, after masturbating few hours later the scabs is little bit swell and festering. I can't tell my doctor about this because it's too embarrassing, I mean if only I can keep my identity private even from doctor themselves.
@@politelical540I'm sorry that happens, but that's very observant of you. I'd try writing it down and passing that note to your doctor (maybe even ask for it back after they're done reading) it may lead to an improvement you didn't know possible?
Tbh though, watchin porn and masturbating regularly is pretty unhealthy. I cant imagine anything good can come out of consistently giving into sexual desires and continously watching content where women are objectified to the most extreme form. With all of these marriage dynamics where the sex lives of couples are ruined due to a husbands porn addiction or his unrealistic views of sex to young boys perception of women being warped, I cant really understand how there are those who insist that regular porn watching and masturbating are good, healthy things.
To be fair to grandma (around the hour mark), now as a parent, most of my kids' health complaints come down to asking them if they drank enough water, need to poop, need a snack, or need a nap.
Me before parenthood: haha, look at these goofy fiber ads... "oh, I feel soo out of sorts and irritable. I must need to poop!" That's so dumb 🙄😂 After parenthood: my god, who knew "not pooping for 2 days" can turn a child into a tiny, cranky jerk?? 😫🤦 😂
I mean, after working as a caretaker on a summer camp, I learned that in some cases asking "did you poop" is worth a shot. My colleague once had a kid who said his lower abdomen hurts and, when asked, confessed that he didn't defecate or urinate in 24 hours.
Yeah, these people ain't like us. Glad we're not being drawn into this topic for now. Still, over in India, we do have BJP cow protection squads and an ongoing pro-vegetarian culture war. We're not safe from crazy.
Folding Ideas and Knowing Better both dropping videos within 24 hours of each other is like finding a hundred dollar bill in your pocket at the flea market. You're shocked and ecstatic about all the weird shit you're about to hear, see, and learn about, and you know it's gonna be a great time no matter what you stumble on
I mean Folding Ideas is giving you more amazing stuff. The last couple of Folding Ideas videos are a little disappointing. The new one much better but the decentralns one could have been 20 minutes and got everything across.
@@chompythebeast If the US is barbaric I wonder what they would think of the countries that exist today who go around stoning people to death for being graped.
Louisa may Alcott is one of my favorite authors it’s so wild that she was part of transcendentalist vegetarian communes. It’s interesting to see how in her work she feeds the characters very well and gives them a wide variety to eat.
I love Little Women, but honestly it's not at all surprising to me that she came from some strict and sort of puritanical background. I tend to read the preachy bits in her books with some sort of distant and confused fascination, but I wouldn't exactly miss them if they dissapeared from the story.
There’s a bit in Eight Cousins im favor of Rational Dress, in favor of exercise for young women and against restrictive women’s fashions that could lead to you getting run over by a carriage horse
Variety is beneficial, but not if it means adding detrimental foods like processed junk food or animal products. Those who don't eat animals live longer and healthier lives according to the Adventist Studies. Links at my channel.
Ah yes saying things majes then true totally. You need animal products at minimum to survive as a human. Kind of obvious when you need supplements on vegan diets.@someguy2135
I love the "vital fluids" bit, hints of Dr. Strangelove...One of the awfullest meals I ever had in the service was the vegetarian MRE I had one night...it was like eating floor tile.
Regarding silver.. I think it's just its antibacterial properties which made it popular for medicinal purposes. Of course, they didn't know *why* it worked, but it probably didn't get infested.
Having been raised SDA, I love all these videos you do adjacent to the worldview I was raised in. I do hope you eventually cover SDA though because I love hearing people cover it that weren't raise in it. The indoctrination is so strong in it and outside voices help remind me how wild what I grew up in was. Thanks so much for your incredible videos. I look forward to every release!
I had a colleague in technical school who was SDA. She would say the cruelest, judgiest things in our faces while smiling with the candour of a Renaissance cherub -gotta give it to her, she was into chest stabbing, not talking behind our backs. Back then, prior to the current right wing era when everyone feels safe saying the most hateful things publicly, I kinda admired that. Whenever anyone complained she was being rude, she looked plain shocked, flat out CRIED and stated she couldn't do anything, "those were the facts". I guess that prepared me, somewhat, for what would happen about 15 years later, when the "destroying with logic and facts" crowd appeared.
1:08:50 A dedicated video on the Eugenics movement in the USA would be VERY interesting in my opinion, with your typical long form thoroughness. I think it is a part of the USA’s history that is either glossed over, or best case not discussed/looked into, at least as much as i feel, it should be. I did a school project on it a LONG while ago, and only did a small amount of digging, but covering the organizations (as you did greatly in this video), as well as detail on those creepy “Better Baby Contests”, and also *Data Collection* which one group did quite extensively if I remember correctly. Tying into the broad theme of Slavery as practiced in the Americas may be good too. Either way i think this would be an interesting, important, and well suited to *your* work type of video! That’s just my thoughts though, schedule is probably plenty full as is lol.
@@aazhie That's a great one! I had no idea how deep that rabbit hole went, how his "sudden change" was more of an inevitability, considering his... worldview. Aliens! lmao.
Good god, I cannot stand this type of thought. You did a 'school project,' oh wow, you are so knowledgeable. You realize you can do research well beyond such depth as a 'school project,' right? Why even mention that? You want a cookie? Oh, and better tie it in to slavery, because my brainwashing told me that that is a good thing to do! Always have to tie various social factors together to come up with a BS explanation as to why, then vigorously dismiss anyone else that has a contrary explanation that doesn't fit within the 'approved' line of thought.
That's a four hour video at least lol. Physiognomy (Phrenology and Race Categorization fall under this), Theosophy (and, by extension, Neo-Spirituality), Asylums, IQ Testing and the Bell Curve, Forced Sterilization, Institutional Racism (including the Great Chinese Exclusion Act, Neo-Slavery, WWII U.S. Concentration Camps, and Native American Discrimination), Neo-Nazism and the Rise of Contemporary Fascism, and The American Eugenics Society (and its covert integration into modern think tank lobbying). Those could each be their own video, and that's only the stuff I know about. I don't have enough knowledge on how it interfaced with U.S. Imperialism, Politics, Religious Movements (outside of Theosophy), and Consumerism (outside of Kellogg here and Henry Ford), and I also have no knowledge of what I know nothing about.
There are a lot of good reasons to be vegetarian (which is why I am), but being afraid of "stimulation" is super definitely not one of them. What an enlightening rollercoaster of a video!
As someone who mostly eats vegetarian food, and a massive advocate of stimulation (both in the sexual and non-sexual sense), I cook extremely flavourful vegetarian food. I've already unintentionally amazed several fellow meat-eaters who used to think vegetarian food is bland and flavourless. Fuck that! Vegetarian food kicks ass! And is exploding with flavour!
I feel like we're witnessing a weird inversion of what is being talked about in this video with all the fads surrounding Keto and other meat related diets for men.
Yeah...I am very confused where people get the idea that our ancient ancestors were somehow healthier. They had to spend nearly all of their time gathering food just to survive ( most of which was obviously not meat!) and would be super stoked to have access to what we eat now! Then these meat obsessed weirdos throw away all common sense and progress we've made because they don't understand nutrition and have some fantasy caveman living in their head as aspirational.
@@jliller Do you know billions of women? Just because almost every vegetarian or vegan you know has been female doesn't mean the person you're responding to is wrong.
Great ending! I'm vegan and this is the most frustrating thing I stumble across (the purity test thing). Veganism is a behavior not a streak. Sometimes we act outside our behavior in rare circumstances, it's not a big deal. Great video overall and I look forward to you reaching 100% some day!
Nothing is more of a "purity test" to me than the egg debate. You own a few hens and they naturally lay unfertalised eggs. Is it vegan to eat those eggs? Moral vegan: Yes because there is no harm done to the hen. Pure vegan: No because the hen cannot consent.
@@ThaPinkGuy I am not a vegan, but I think in that case part of the problem is not just what you do with the eggs, it's owning the hen at all unless it's some kind of a rescued companion animal? It's not just that it doesn't consent to you taking the egg, it's that you're keeping it in your yard for your own benefit and the egg is just a byproduct of that. Again, I do not believe this, but I do understand this argument and think it's consistent with the rest of it, at least if you're *also* the sort of person who won't buy a puppy from a breeder. (The one area I think doesn't hold up in general is honey; fair to avoid industrial producers, but I can't stress enough how you are killing so many more insects a day even with your *organic* groceries than a local beekeeper will be.)
@@Nassifeh I was keeping it simple so people could read and understand. There are two factions of veganism and if you control all factors that still wouldn’t satisfy one faction because the bottom line is the same for them: no one should eat animal products. The other faction is about reducing as much harm to animals that is possible.
@@ThaPinkGuy Except I don't think that's true? There's some fairly sensible reasons, even as a non-vegan, to think that unloved captivity constitutes "harm". Or even loved captivity, though fewer people would consider the impaired liberty of a chicken to be a serious problem. It's a spectrum, really, from the meat-eaters all the way down. There's no controlling all the factors; everybody's just making calls about *how much* harm they're okay with, and different people draw that line in different places.
I friggin' love Road to Wellville. And I went to highschool with a jainist, where not only can you not consume animal products, you cannot consume vegetables where harvesting them kills the plant.
@@genericamerican7574 Carrots are the root of the plant, so I would assume not. I assume they mean things like tomatoes or pumpkins where the thing we harvest and eat is just something the plant produces, as opposed to things like carrots or potatoes where the thing we eat is a crucial part of the plant itself.
@@guardingdark2860you can replant part of the carrot or potato so new stuff grows from it. Technically you did not killed the plant, it's just a symbiotic relationship.
The "when was the part time you pooped" question was the thing that really got me. I was born in 2000, and that's a question my father would ask me so the time, and something I still ask myself! Made everything here fell much more real
I met a guy once who pooped once every three weeks to a month. He was perfectly healthy. No constipation. No painful emptying. He had the all clear from the doctor. Meanwhile I go once to twice a day. Any less and I've definitely got something going wrong and will suffer greatly when it unclogs. Probably had to do with our size difference. I'm a tiny girl and he's a large man. I find the idea, that 4 times a day is necessary, absolutely fascinating. I've never met a single healthy person who went that much.
@@ghostratsarahThe people who get even close to 4 times a day are mostly vegans that eat a ton of vegetables and fiber. Though as a vegan myself who consumes a lot of fiber, I’m still at once or twice a day lol
Can I just say thank you for choosing a safe for work title? I feel like some other creators may have chosen a more salacious title, which I normally don’t mind, but it makes listening to some video essays at work look a bit sus if someone comes up to my desk and I’m not prepared for them and it takes me a bit longer to close my phone. Also as usual this was beyond fascinating and you’re one of the most well-researched channels on this platform!
i wouldn't even call it "gamification"... it's just a very logical way to SERIOUSLY reduce meat consumption: by making the idea of eating less meat not some stupid virtue-signalling / judgey practice, and making it a real movement. in fact, catholics already have a form of that practice: giving up meat on fridays. it's a very short hop over to giving up meat on more days (if you can) and removing the religious element from it. there's also fasting during lent, which can be modified into "eat less easter" or "munch less march" or whatever. point being, eat one less meal every other day for a month, just as a way to figure out if that works for you, eat no meat for 1-3 days a week, on your own volition, no pressure and no judgement, just a fun fad thing. if we can do dumb shit like no fap november, we can do meatless mondays or watery wednesdays or fiber fridays or saltless saturdays. we just need health and wellness influencers to stop being grifters and do some actual good for once.
Silver is notably antimicrobial. As Kellogg was writing before stainless steel was a thing, if you were going to permanently embed metal, silver was probably the least harmful option (hypoallergenic gold gold being too soft and easily broken)
I'll be honest, I was really apprehensive going onto this video (being vegan myself), as most of the time we're mentioned online it's very unfriendly in nature, but this was really, really interesting! I appreciated the ending a lot, I think it's a really valuable message, and it was also very interesting to learn about the partial history of vegetarianism (at least in the US)
Good to hear! While I usually like Knowing Better's content, I wanted to check the comments first to figure out which tone he was going for. I'm not even a vegan, but I hate the reactionary defensiveness that is often the approach to veganism/vegetarianism.
yeah as a vegetarian my life i find I've been attacked randomly so many times. it's one of those things people casually insult and put down. kind of like being gay in the old days or being a frenchman in the USA.
the link between vegetarianism and eugenics helps me to understand why many prominent Nazis were vegetarians and are therefore not really linked to modern vegetarians' concerns as the early vegetarians were focused on themselves and improving their personal lot and not necessarily focusing on the greater societal good as their principle driving force. So when Jordan Peterson points out that most of the senior Nazi leadership were vegetarians, he is relying on reading modern vegetarians' concerns for animal welfare back onto people who would not have recognized those concerns. On the other hand, I can hardly believe that I just spent 2 hours to find out this little tid bit of information, and yet this was all strangely addictive and goes to underscore how little American proseletizing methodology has changed over the last century and a half!
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding thanks for pointing that out, not sure what to make of that or what the motivation would have been, it is too easy to read our own value sets onto to other people's decisions.
@@peterhumphryshitler didnt beleive he was evil. He passed animal welfare laws because he beleived it was a good thing to do. Hitler beleived what he was doing was morrally correct.
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_moddinganti vivisection and anti kosher butchering were already political movements in Germany before the Nazis picked them up and took them as their own. And as you conspicuously left out, one of the main things they did was ban kosher butchering. Don't think I need to go into detail on why the Nazis would be interested in that, however it is incredibly interesting you left that out, as it was one of the first results while doing a quick Google search and everything I read on the other animal rights laws also brought up the kosher butchering ban. It's really strange you left that out. And, while they also did ban various forms of animal experimentation, like many other Nazi laws, they were rarely actually enforced on those committing the crime. Again, it's really strange you just summarized all that into "Hitler passed animal welfare laws tho."
As a non-American vegetarian, this video is fascinating! Great job on the video (as always), I’m always amazed how you can make me rethink whole eras of history that I thought I knew
Going by your username I’m guessing you’re south asian? I’m a European vegetarian but I was the one white dude on a team of Indians and Nepalese for a long time, and their vegetarian food was some of the best I’ve ever had. Lots of love from the UK.
Personally I wasn't looking to be a vegan or vegetarian, but to be able to stick my limited income's small monthly budget. Yes it began with Meatless Mondays, but as prices of meat grew w/ inflation my meatless days grew to 2 then to 1 meal on the other days. So IDK where in this I lay, maybe accidental vegetarian, but I still enjoy having a cheeseburger, steak, etc yet I've always loved eating my vegetables. LOL ☺️
Opportunistic omnivore was what my roommate did. He didn't buy meat, but if someone else made food with it and offered, he wouldn't turn down freebies xD
"meatless mondays.""" Lmao, people are so fcking hilarious. Like how much meat are you eating for this to be a thing? I don't give a sh*t if I eat meat, yet i probably eat less meat than most of you cheater vegans. The problem is people overeat by a massive amount
Kellogg would have a mental breakdown if they saw Tony the Tiger and how furries have turned the mascot for their anti-masturbatory food into the opposite.
I have seen that cartoon tiger committing sex acts that would shock the devil himself, Kellogg would probably die on the spot if you showed him the first image on rule 34.
@@dengar96 WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
Accidentally getting people to stop eating bleach, accidentally encouraging people to stop smoking before they knew it was bad for you... history is very funny sometimes. Also your ferret in a box of packing peanuts is greatly appreciated, thank you
@@spacedonut8157he’s the perfect example of legality being distinct from morality. There’s no question that he had the moral high ground, but he was murdered because of evil laws
9:30 Romantic love most certainly was a concept, it definitely existed by the middle ages in Europe, I slogged through several boring books about it for some essays I had to do for my Courtly Love class. The Ancient Greeks had a bunch of words for love and one of them was Eros which can be lust but it can also be passionate romantic love. I love this channel but you got this part wrong my brother. I will agree that most marriages at the time you are speaking of were mostly arranged, the concept of romantic love did exist.
I'm as far from being a medieval specialist as it's possible but wasn't love treated as some kind of tragedy or source of trouble at that time? I remember a story of this princess or smt. She was married but fell in love with knight (I don't remember the story very much). They decided to run away but they never kissed bc that would be a sin against God. They both died and they were found lying toghether with a sword between them to keep them from doing the nasty Anyways love existed but it wasn't source of happines like it's framed today From what I know Norse stories are full of blood spilling caused by tragic love
Maybe it is in the same regards as romantic love in Chinese literature 3000 hours ago. You could love anybody you wanted sure no problem. But your first love was to the family, so their wishes were your bidding. If your father told you to marry the woman next door who could be confused with cattle. Then you did so, and if you protested then you were rebelling against your family. And as Mencius said it. The man who does not want to continue the family unit is the worst of all. You could take a second wife/mistress if you had the means to do so. Or you could go to the brothel if you did not like your wife. Romantic love did exist but just like today in Confucian cultures we see that people choose to make their families happy over themselves. None of my Chinese friends found their own partner.
Here in Germany, bread very often still is the meal. For breakfast and dinner people will often have slices of bread, with various spreads and toppings. The traditional big and warm meal of the day is lunch. Although with more and more people not having access to a propper big meal at noon, lunch and dinner often switch places, with another bread based meal for lunch, but a large, cooked meal for dinner. Some people nowadays might actually instead have a cooked meal both for dinner and lunch. But the proper way is cold bread- warm and big- cold bread again.
As a European vegetarian I find this so interesting. For us vegetarian is a modern thing associated with healthy living and environmentalism, very post-war. We do have a lot of traditional vegetarian food, which it seems like america doesn’t, and it was very hard to find food I could eat in America. I hope to find out more about this and this video is an excellent starting point.
Your difficulty finding food might have to do more with where you were going rather than the US itself. As an American vegetarian, I found it incredibly difficult to find vegan options (or even vegetarian options) in most of the touristy areas of Europe. I went with a group, and when we went to restaurants, the only vegetarian option they could come up with was often just roasted vegetables. Similarly, I tend to have difficulty finding food in lots of US restaurants and tourist areas, but it’s not hard at most decent sized grocery stores these days
As a European? Europe is made of vastly different countries each with their own history of vegetarianism lol. Sometimes I wonder why people who follow a channel based on avoiding generalizations and thinking critically has such shitty takes.
its nice that i can now say "i'm 99% vegetarian" instead of "i accidentally ate a sandwich with prosciuto because i didnt know that was ham a few months ago"
PROSCIUTO IS HAM?? I THOUGHT IT WAS A TYPE OF CHEESE 😭 Edit: like it sounds like a cheese name or something, like there’s bacon, steak, pork are all meat and then there ricotta, gouda, mozzarella and your telling me prosciutto doesn’t sound like a cheese name? (I think mixed it up with provolone because that kinda sounds like a meat name to me)
@@kiwipomegranate Though a pretty particular type of ham, "dry-cured" as opposed to uh "normal ham" that was like, smoked, boiled etc. In Italian it's straight up the word for (non-specific) ham, and the dry-cured one is "prosciutto crudo" whereas cooked ham is "prosciutto cotto"
There was and idea of romantic love back on the medieval ages, just look at French love poems of the eleventh and twelve Century. The points of most of those poems was That the love was non sexual, unrequited, and more of a "worship" of the Lady. I learned this in middle school damit
Yeah, he really screwed up with that one. It started as an oversimplification and became an outright falsehood. Thankfully it's a pretty small part of the actual video, which is otherwise pretty well-researched.
This doesn't seem like a screw-up? This seems like a thing where you know perfectly well what he meant, everybody knew perfectly well what he meant. It's an exaggeration for effect.
@@Acinnnas somebody with English as a first language, I've always seen stomach ache written as two separate words, and my voice to text writes it as such as well.
As a "statistically vegetarian" myself, I'm happy that this video ends on promoting this approach. It is so much more friendly, and is perfectly compatible with environmental motivation. Also, it took moving from Eastern Europe to US and discovering great traditional vegetarian cuisines like Indian for me to even consider going vegetarian. Enjoyment is the integral part of a healthy relationship with food.
Having been a fan of your channel for years, watching every video multiple times, was a bit worried on this one as a vegan my entire adult life and how aggro a lot of people are towards it. Honestly, hilarious and educational video as always, loved it.
@@vincentyoung8472perhaps by age, location or diet you seem to not deal with people who complain about vegetarians or vegans. Lucky you. It does happen a lot though, there will always be people who want to complain about anything they see as different to their own experience. Unwittingly you've been a great example of this.
I'm only ever "aggro" when vegans attack indigenous peoples for their customary dietary habits. Or when y'all purity test me and say I'm not a good communist because I drink milk. (Usually, while personally partaking in very anti-working class practices, such as landlording. Landlord vegans, go fuck yourselves.)
@@davidjennings2179 is it more because its a constant hassle people have to take into consideration? I know what its like tho to be allergic or being medically unable to eat certain things, it sucks
I think it's just amazing a) the depth of the differing topics you cover, and b) you have successfully "made" me watch an over hour long video on the history on vegetarianism. Well done!
My girlfriend is a vegetarian (a very normal one) and i looked her dead in the eyes and said your philosophy is why my hoodie got cut off as a baby. Then busted out laughing and told her what i learned from this video. Thank you KB your channel is incredible.
I always assumed that the modern Western vegetarian/vegan movement vaguely came from the hippy movement so all of the very strange ideas about health and sex and religion mixed in historically were fascinating. The Vegetarian Society is still around in the UK; I don't know how official it is but you see their logo on some certified vegan and vegetarian products. I never expected that their origins were obscure Christian groups!
I was surprised the US side had multiple different official societies, since as you say the UK one is still intact! It seems to have moved with the times at least. But it definitely explains some of the other weird slants in their club magazines that still hang around under the surface. (NB my experience is limited to what my parents got circa 95-05, maybe 2010ish)
I've been a vegetarian for a very long time, and I gotta say, this has been a fascinating history on these early weirdos. It's also pretty refreshing to hear a fair take on the modern diet from someone with different eating habits. I usually avoid telling people how I eat cause they tend to get all weird and defensive or start with the jokes.
@juliagoetia people who live differently always bring up a defensive response in people. Other ways of living imply you may not be living correctly, which threatens the ego of small-minded folks.
@@busimagen I'd say it's honestly a mixture of both. As a vegetarian who also doesn't eat sweets, drink, or smoke weed I notice people get very defensive when I POLITELY decline offers of meat, booze, weed, and/or sweets.
I had a girlfriend who was a vegetarian, when I started asking about the details of what she does and doesn't eat she said "I don't eat anything that has a face"
@MarcoBonechi bivalves like clams and oysters most vegans don't have any issue with whatsoever because as of now science shows they don't have a central nervous system or brain so currently it's pretty much theorized that they don't feel any pain whatsoever and aren't aware of the experience of life. This could change in the future but I, as a vegan have no issues with people eating clams but I probably still wouldn't eat them myself because they filter the toxins out of the water. Sure, they have a lot of zinc but they also have everything they filtered out of that water. In our polluted world I don't understand why anyone would eat ocean filters but hey, it's their life...
If anything, I feel like a lot of people are becoming more vegetarian simply because meat costs so much more than it used to. My own consumption of legumes, mushrooms, and root vegetables has gone up quite a bit in the last 2 years. Still working on the more perishable vegetables.
"Are you the American Vegetarian Society?" "F**k off! We're The American Society of Vegetarians" "Well, where is the American Vegetarian Society?" "There he is, over there. Splitter!" *AVS raises a single middle digit in response* With apologies to Monty Python!
Silver is the cheapest of the antimicrobial metals which is probably why it was used. Also, some kids do have chronic constipation and asking when the last time they pooped is the fastest and most effective diagnostic tool why their tummy hurts. Time for a prune juice and x-lax cocktail.
The moment you mentioned mary baker eddy my heart stopped lol. It felt like an easter egg to the avengers in an iron man movie. The Knowing Better verse
Amazing video! I wasn't expecting it to go pro-vegetarianism at the end, and I was low-key blown away by the gamefied harm reduction approach to vegetarianism that followed it. This video was like a movie full of delightful surprises, with a twist-ending AND a thought-provoking message. I'm recommending it to all my friends. ❤
I grew up in Battle Creek! The BC Sanitarium building is still there, but now serves as the local Federal Center. The old Kellogg factory there used to have a tourist destination known as cereal city - you could get a custom printed Corn Flakes box with your photo on it - several family members have one still.
I've been vegan for over a year now. Believe it or not but abstaining from meat has been the easy part. I buy soy meat substitute and then do non-vegan recipes. If you didn't know it was soy substitute you might not even realize that my diet is vegan. I also realized that the main issue with vegan cooking is that people don't use enough oil in their cooking because they cook with the expectation of fats from the meat. Soy meat is too lean to contain those fats so you need to add extra oil in the cooking to make up the difference, otherwise your food risks becoming too dry or lackluster. The hard part is abstaining from other animal products, mostly leather and wool since manufacturers don't offer the consideration that these things deserve.
As a vegan of 10 years, I'd argue leather and wool are actually better in terms of environmental impact than plastic and cotton alternatives. They are more durable and last far longer, and even when they do go to the landfill, they are biodegradable. In terms of animal welfare, there's a lot of fearmongering around sheering sheep that isn't true.
I would also add that that wool sheep absolutely need to be sheered (meat sheep do not need sheering). It's like with dairy cows - they've been bred to overproduce. A good dairy cow breed produces more milk than their calf can drink - they need to be milked. A sheep's wool will keep growing, much like the hair on our heads. Bees produce more honey than they need. Chickens lay far more eggs than they can reasonably hatch, let alone actually raise - and ofc, if there's no rooster present to fertilize the eggs, there's no possible chick anyway. The ethics of impregnating a cow as soon as she gives birth to keep her milk flowing is obviously problematic, just like separating the mother from her calf. And ofc, keeping animals indoors all the time is definitely not good for the animals and leads to diseases and health problems the animals wouldn't have otherwise (or wouldn't be very common at the very least). As for leather? Hindus and Buddhists have had prohibitions on killing animals for over 2000 years, but they still used leather. They just waited for the animal to die naturally and then made use of their dead bodies because otherwise, it would be wasteful. I've come to notice that a lot of the vegan arguments about domesticated animal welfare don't seem to actually know much about the animals they claim they're arguing on behalf of. But it is worth noting that most of the vegan arguments tend to focus on the practices of factory and corporate farms, rather than the average family farm. But thanks to the opacity of our food and product distribution networks, there's no real way to boycott factory/corporate farms without either doing a ton of meticulous research or just not using those kinds of products at all. Well, unless you've got a neighbor that raises animals and so you can just get your products straight from them. For example, there's just no way to buy ethical chicken meat in the US unless you're buying it directly from a farmer and you know for a fact that they _don't_ shove the birds into tiny cages and feed them a ton of grain and antibiotics to get them ready for butchering in about 6 months.
@@TV-8-301It’s also worth noting that a major part of vegan arguments that informs why all exploitation of animals is unacceptable in their view even if there isn’t obvious immediate harm happening, such as with shearing sheep, is about how commoditization of animals leads to a profit incentive to cause harm. So even if shearing sheep doesn’t cause cause harm if done in an effective way, selling the wool turns the sheep into a product rather than a creature whose wants and desires (including the desire not to get hurt) matter. Even on relatively more ethical family farms (which aren’t anywhere near accessible to the vast majority of consumers), the animals are still commodities foremost, and that’s what vegans see as the problem. The modern leftist vegans, at least, would support that, I’m sure there exist others that would disagree, especially the ones being t in this video
@@TV-8-301 - "In terms of animal welfare, there's a lot of fearmongering around sheering sheep that isn't true." I'm curious how you feel about eggs in that vein too. Factory farming is obviously bad, but when it comes to locally sourced eggs (ie, your friend has a chicken coop and just has a fuckton of eggs because chickens lay a fuckton of eggs), where does that lie on the scale, or is it more of a "just no because it's annoying to keep track of" thing?
Having bought into multiple ideological diets and researched the health and environmental implications I'd have to say that no one diet fits all people. For your own health we have to note our body's responses to different food and alter it accordingly. This is why I'm no longer vegetarian or vegan, I couldn't survive healthily on it. In terms of diet, the primary path we all need to take towards healthy eating is to avoid processed foods. Another important point is that animal rights activists have had a massive impact on affecting our attitudes towards the ethics and environmental soundness of eating meat. Their voice and rhetoric has drowned out a lot of relevant research that we as a society are not taking into account. In environmental terms our priority should be local, ethical production of food, and eating according to the season.
Wow. My paternal grandparents were born in the 1910s and lived on a farm in Michigan not far from Battle Creek. My grandma was at one point very obsessed with how many bowel movements she had in a day, at one point becoming upset when the number wasn't enough. I always assumed that that was just the dementia setting in (which she did have). They weren't vegetarian or Seventh Day Adventist and neither of them ever talked about yogurt enemas or water baths, but they were teetotalers (abstained from alcohol). This video now makes me wonder if there was more than just the dementia going on.
I subscribed to your channel after your last upload, so this is my first new upload! Very excited. Since subscribing, I've caught up on a lot of your past topics, and I love the style/tone/discussion you try to foster. Some of the very cheesy cutaways make me think of Doctor Who, in the best way! Thanks for doing what you do, sincerely, internet stranger.
As a vegetarian who chose to be vegetarian before Kindergarten because my mom and 7th day Adventist church community, I had no idea about all this history! Makes me think about everything I’ve been taught and influenced by throughout history! Thanks for this video!
*I LOVE the cork push pin string connection relationship thingy!* You have to level it up, by making it a map of the places your explaining! State map, US map, world map ect. *GO BIG WITH IT!*
I loved the bit at the end about how vegetarianism isn't a binary. I'm like 99% lacto-vegetarian but I'm not vegan, even though I know it would be ethically better.
It isn't binary. Sure you're causing less pain, but you still see animals as commodities, from which you can profit. That isn't veganism, and he isn't vegan so he can't really have much say about that.
@@EasyWater I would reject the notion that paying someone to murder people and bring me their flesh to eat necessarily implies I see them "as commodities." I think I'm perfectly capable of seeing someone as a fellow sentient living being with as much right to life as I have right before I kill and eat them. Maybe this isn't true for you. Maybe your values have more causal sway over your behavior than mine do. But frankly, I highly suspect you're just in more denial than I am about how much of your behavior is governed by habit and short-term self-interest.
Its honestly really insteresting how like the movement died out a few times and is still coming back with different beliefs in each one. I really enjoy your videos so keep up the hard work and know you have our support
I just finished watching Folding Ideas' 2 & a half hour video on the 2021 GameStop short squeeze, & then literally less than one minute later, this pops up in my recommendations. Today has been a good day for watching long-form deep-dives.
So I knew Kellogg's cereal was invented by a Seventh Day Adventist but I did not know the same guy invented peanut butter. Weird to think one guy is essentially responsible for about 3/4 of the breakfasts I have ever eaten. I would love to see a video on Seventh Day Adventists! It would tie in nicely to both this video and the previous videos on religions that were invented in the U.S. My mom had a Seventh Day Adventist penpal for a little while but I don't know a lot about them. Also, for those who might be wondering, Bronson Alcott was Louisa May Alcott's dad.
LOL I was listening to a podcast about Kellog and the and anti fap movement, then saw this new video! You're on time and on topic, Mister Knowing Better. Best channel on UA-cam.
I really like the gentle call to action at the end. It’s that exact perspective that convinced me to start cutting out meat at my own pace, and now I’m at a place where I’m perfectly happy with how little my “percentage” is. Being allergic to dairy did give me quite the head start on the non-meat side of veganism, though.
Yeah I'm not ready for veganism yet, but two big shifts at home are Impossible Nuggets instead of chicken nuggets for the kids (they literally taste just like mid-quality chicken nuggets! It's crazy!), and certified humane, free-range organic chicken vs. "regular" chicken. If I'm going to eat an animal, I'd like it to have had something resembling a life beforehand, at the least. We didn't eat a meat heavy diet, as it was, so that helps. I make a mean granola that I eat with a bunch of fresh berries and plain Greek yogurt as my main meal, which seems like something the old vegetarians would appreciate, except that I'm sure my granola is too spiced and full of flavor for them 😅
I can never go full vegan because 1. On my period I just psychologically cannot feed myself impossible meat. Will eat nothing at all if there's no burgers 2. A lot of vegan fabric alternatives are plastic. In the long run it seems better to buy a single garment, wear it forever, and pass it onto the kids, that's better than a constant churn of vinyl and polyester clothes
@@PrincessNinja007 a lot of my personal ideology overlaps with freegans, particularly with respect to clothing/fabric/leather. For example, I got my everyday bag/sack/purse at a thrift shop. It's leather and has shown itself to be incredibly durable, much more so than any fake leather or cloth bag I've used this heavily. I don't feel particularly guilty or irresponsible in getting it because I'm not producing extra waste by needing to replace it over and over again, but also since I got it at the thrift shop it's had at least one owner before me already; I'm extending the bag's life. In my opinion, despite the bag being leather this ultimately benefits the earth and the animals more than if I bought a new plastic "vegan leather" bag.
Its wild how.. Graham was both way progressive for his time, and actually pushing a more healty lifestyle FOR HIS TIME.. and then became such a drag on progress past his era? he is essentially an icon of both progressive ideas, and conservative ones, depending on the era.
The conclusion rings true: I was vegan last year, but as I ate meat in a few social settings at the beginning of the year, I stopped, feeling I "failed" at being vegan, so I went back to eating meat and dairy products. But, seeing it in terms of % is a healthier approach. I still go meatless during the week, big batches of curry or chili are an easy staple, but I'll strive to increase the % of meatless meals I have.
This is so real! I’m totally gonna start using the percentage thing. I was vegan for about two years, and then decided to go back to being vegetarian because of wanting to protect my ED recovery/lack of vegan options in my area. I still prefer a lot of vegan food, but I kept feeling guilty for not being 100% vegan anymore. It’s nice to think about it as a “do what you can” thing vs. an on/off switch, because flexibility with food is good and every bit helps.
Obviously, looking at it as harm reduction, every bit counts, but it fails a bit on the ethics. Like, imagine some said to you, I've only murdered two people this week. Sure, it is better that they didn't murder more, but no amount of murder of people is acceptable. When extending the right to life to animals, it sounds like, "I didn't really WANT to murder that person, but what can I do? I don't think I could stand never murdering someone again." This is 100% different than something like alcohol recovery, where where the goal is about separating the act from the person and self-improvement. Also, naturally, ethics are complicated. We allow for some percentage of accidental human deaths, after all.
@@akamesamaObviously, if one equates eating meat occasionally to literal HOMICIDE, it doesn't fit. But that's as false an equivalence as it gets - and why so many people run for the meat aisle when some self-righteous veggie/vegan comes over with the "Ethical" argument. Do you want to make semi-salient judgmental points and convince no one, or do you want to encourage people to eat more mindfully and work towards a goal by accepting that it's not an all or nothing game, like it is with many addictions? You sound like an Evangelical Xtian. Which is why veganism has been likened to evangelical and other fundamentalist religious dogma.
@@jooleebilly Is it not equivalent if you extend the right to life to animals? I realize that not everyone does, but when people talk about it being wrong, that is usually what they mean. But obviously my point was not to say it is literally homicide, but point to an analogous case that everyone would agree on to draw a comparison. And I already said that it is obviously better from a harm reduction standpoint, but someone who reduces meat eating for, say, fad diet reasons is likely to revert their diet, compared to someone who holds an position based on ethics. My point isn't to purity test, but to get people to examine their ethical positions.
My partner and I are vegans and we appreciate your making this video. It was facinating. I am not surprised that progressive activists like abolitionists often did not eat meat. Other ideas like eugenics are obviously fundamentally wrong, but the goal of improving mankind was a noble one. Their method for doing so was the problem. Education is the key to improving mankind. Learning about this important topic is one way to do that.
Zwieback is a staple snack food here in Switzerland so I was really taken aback when you said people didn’t like it, but I’m guessing that American version of Zwieback didn’t contain sugar, whereas Swiss Zwieback is basically crunchy Brioche bread, i.e. pretty sugary PS: in German the letter ’Z‘ is pronounced like ’ts‘, not ’s‘ like in English. So ’zwieback‘ is pronounced ’tswiback‘
A note about the bit at the end: I started being vegetarian 3 years ago, and in that time I’ve accidentally eaten meat products like 4 or 5 times. While I got frustrated with myself, I never took those mistakes as reasons to stop. I’ve kept on going like nothing happened and encourage anyone else looking to change themselves to keep on it too.
First off, I VERY MUCH enjoy your work as a whole. Long time watcher/lurker, first time commenter. But...as someone who has a PhD in Medieval Studies and who specialized in a theological topic for her dissertation (penitential despair, because I'm completely emotionally healthy, why do you ask?), your theology of love could use a bit of nuance. (I had a similar take on your Dante video but it seemed mean to quibble.) You could certainly love yourself and your neighbor, or else Matthew 22: 37-39 makes no sense. Yes, these were reflections or lesser copies of the love you owed God, but still valid. That's the truth behind the three kinds of violence punished in the Seventh Circle, after all. (Violence against neighbors, self, and God). And don't even get me started on the different kinds of love according to classical philosophy/ early Christianity (eros, amor, agape/caritas, etc.) and the emergence of romantic love... C.S Lewis' The Four Loves (1960) is helpful in this regard. Dante's love for Beatrice represents the depth of these nuances and complications. Also, you go from referencing "the Christian world 1000 years ago" to the Renaissance and then back to ca. 1200, which is on the vague side. I studied the 12th and 13th centuries especially and have never heard of a formalized "demonic possession theory." I know what you're getting at, but I would say it wasn't as formally and specifically articulated as you imply. Sorry if this has already been covered above. Thank you so much for your work!
20:57 I just have to point out that white flour and products made from it wasn't necessarily cheaper, it just had a longer shelf life. It could therefore be stocked up to provide a reliable supply.
Reminds me of a comment i saw (maybe under an Atun-Shei video) about how a lot of early activists were pretty weird, which I was definitely thinking about over the course of this video
Considering psychology and sociology are fairly new sciences (a little over a 100 years old) and that reputable research and scientific institutions are also fairly recent, I think k they must be products if their times since they didn't really have facts or science to help guide their beliefs.
What an excellent closing perspective! I was hesitant to start this video, because I'm super aware of the cognitive dissonance that I live with when it comes to meat consumption. For you to leave us with an easy and achievable growth perspective/plan, is why I knew it was a ""safe"" video to watch.
As a full blown vegetarian who hasn’t eaten meat in years, there’s no rush. Whenever I tried to rush the process of removing meat products from my diet, it just set me back. These things take time, it took me several years to get where I am now. If you want to try eating better, do so gradually with your mental health in mind. Peace, love, and veggies to ya my friend, hi from Cymru 😁
When I was 12 I decided I love animals too much to eat them and turned vegetarian overnight, I been 100% vegetarian since then for the last 19 years, growing up in Israel it wasn't a hard switch, we mostly eat salads and falafel which are vegan :p
Get your KB Morgan Plushie! www.makeship.com/products/kb-morgan-plush
Sign up for Nebula at go.nebula.tv/knowingbetter for the discounted price of $2.50 a month!
Watch my next video right now at nebula.tv/videos/knowingbetter-four-times-a-day-john-harvey-kellogg
I’m guessing the Indic origins are going to be left out here lol. Vegetarianism in the US, particularly on the west coast is influenced in big part by the longstanding vegetarian cultures of India. Most prominently the Jains, who denounced all harm to animals 3000 years ago
Good vid, I’m glad you kept your mind for the video. I’m surprised that Peter Singer or Alex O’Connor (other UA-camr with philosophy focus) didn’t come up in the 4th wave vegetarian section. Singer does some thoughtful essays and y’all can find podcast episodes with him and critique that vein of work.
Thank goodness I have 4 poops a day. 😂
I’d love to see you do a video on solarpunk covering mark fisher’s capitalist realism
hi there Mr. Better, have you ever considered doing a deep dive into “special education” and the trauma it can cause for disabled children?
I like that you added that “pet theory” joke.
Graham: Animals control their sexual urges.
This guy didn't know much about animals, did he?
He was a quack.
@@daemonspudguy
No, I’m pretty sure he wasn’t a duck
pretty sure there's a euphemism involving animals and fornicating lol
Uh I don't know what you're talking about
...No kidding, ducks have a rather appalling sex life.
Cereal-related tangent: I think it's really interesting how Kellogg invented the first cereal so his patients could have a plain diet. Now, cereal is so far removed that it is nearly all sugar fortified and has a mile long aisle in the store. 😅
It was designed to curb masturbation in young men. It's hilarious. Look it up. Kellogg had some wacky ideas.
Truly the American dream
Yeah Kellogg invented Granola and Graham Crackers to stop men from masturbating.
It was his brother who took it the sugar route
@lostboy8084 I know it was his brother who was responsible for the sugared cereal we have now. But, I just imagine John Kellogg turning in his grave every time I shove a handful of fruit loops in my mouth and take some time for myself. Not necessarily at the same time.
I have a potential theory for why they used silver for the sutures. Silver is a natural antimicrobial. That's actually why it is often a symbol of purity and healing. People believe that’s why silver became tied to folklore in stopping werewolves and vampires in the first place, because they are "impure" humans.
Yea, it was used when the sutures needed to stay for a longer period as it reduces the chance of infection (at least that was the reasoning). There are a lot of other procedures from that time also specifically calling for silver sutures. But I am not a doctor nor medical historian I just read it online
K. B. Morgan silver sales scheme
The silver thing is simply because silver was used for all sorts of sacred symbols. It was not the silver that killed vampires and werewolves, it was were it came from.
@@howlrichard1028 No shit, that is exactly their point. Their point was that silver is most well documented to be associated with symbols of health or purity BECAUSE of its antimicrobial properties. These symbols then became co-opted in stories about mythical creatures.
They were discussing the potential origins of the myths while youve just said "its there because its there".
imagine the stone age logic tests available at the beginnings of medical history:
if you make a needle out of each of the easiest materials to craft with including wood, bone, stone, & the easiest to smelt metals,
then dip them in blood & mud & then leave them in a jar for a month,
when you check on the results it's clear that only silver & gold look clean enough to use again.
I was raised a vegetarian and my wife was raised a Christian scientist so this video was a wild watch for us. It’s crazy to see the history of belief systems that we grew up with and accepted without question as kids.
i love watching early Christianity videos because of how crazy the old stuff gets. kinda makes you think what things do we believe now that will later seem ridiculous to future generations
@@AspynDotZipI like how early 20th century Christianity was very anticapitalist, only for that to change reap quickly in the 50s
@@Dong_Harveynot all Christians. There has, however, been a long lived group of heresies known collectively as Gnosticism. Broadly, they were anti-materialists as some believed the world was created by an evil god called the demiurge. The only way to return to the real God, is to deny everything material and focus only on the Spiritual. While mainline Christianity has always denied this, it has never really gone away and periodically creeps it’s way back in western societies like in the late 19th century.
@@Dong_Harvey Yeah, it's crazy remembering that Christians were the ones who basically founded the progressive movement. I have to assume the shift was because cultural norms trump religious instruction constantly.
@@Dong_Harveymeanwhile that pope Nicholas V portrait is giving you the side eye because he knows he helped issue in the age of capitalism with Dum Diversas and Romanus pontifex
It is crazy to think that there was a man in human history that thought milk was too spicy & exotic.......
This is just speculation on my part, but he might have been lactose intolerant, apart from being a consummate arsehole.
Kellogg went to an insane asylum where he happened to see some inmates who suffered from mental retardation. Basically someone with a toddler's brain development trapped in an adult's body. Obviously, hormones don't care, and they touch themselves quite a bit. Kellogg decided that the reason they were mentally ill was because of masturbation.
I imagine he saw someone suffering from indigestion due to being lactose intolerant and decided no one should drink milk.
@@rustomkanishka I'm pretty sure Graham he said that his reasoning was that he believed anything that came from animals was inherently spicy firey & dangerous
But if he was lactose intolerant or spent a lot of time around lactose intolerant people than in pointing out milk specifically instead of chicken or something would make a lot more sense, kind of like how people would think syphilis was punishment for having sex since people got in after sex and they didn't have the knowledge of STDs 😅
Just a disclaimer tho, I've only wash like 1/5 into the video so far 😅, I'm going to finish it today tho.
Mike Pence's secret role model, I bet.
Who said white people have no culture
I assumed that it was a Freudian thing-- adults who drink milk are dreaming of being nursing babies.
John Harvey Kellogg…what can you say about a man that wrote a whole book about proper sex life while he was an unmarried virgin-and then found enough material for a second volume on his honeymoon
Kellogg, the original Red Pill Dude.
Guys have been doing that forever. Joshua Harris fucked up an entire generation of conservative Christians with his untested advice.
King of the Red Pill!! 💊
it's like if celibate catholic priests would decide for every one on earth about their sexual life. wait, they do that... while molesting little children and r**ing nuns. gross
He did end up with a large family. He adopted all of them.
In Finland we have this concept of "chips-and-beer veganism", specifically to combat the idea of veganism as a moralistic diet of salad and oatmeal. I'm not vegan but many of my close friends are, some of them are amazing chefs. They also know all the vegan potato chip brands by heart and are very chill about their lifestyle.
Nice to see there are some vegans that aren't freaking Shiite vegans. All the ones I've met act like they deserve the Nobel peace prize and that they're saving humanity. They aren't.
I have often a most vegetarian diet but only because I eat so much crap at work and meat in at least acceptable quality is not available.
@@sebastiangeorge7714wdym not available?
@@irasac1 as in not sold there
@@sebastiangeorge7714 whaat. where do you live
I am surprised that mushrooms were not used in America.
In Eastern Europe mushrooms are VERY popular. I also love them.
In fact, in the old days it was a survival technique. If you didn't have meat, you ate mushrooms as an alternative.
Mycoprotein took a lot longer to catch-on in the USA as well. Textured vegetable protein was the name of the game for 99% of the US market until maybe 10-ish years ago.
We love mushrroms here in Straya too, but I recently got a rude awakening on the "Meat for Vegetarians" narrative - most fungi we eat have very little protein in them.
I'd gone around for most of my life believing they were a good substitute. And they're great for flavour and texture in that role, but if I was meat-free I'd have to find high-protein foods to include to make up for mushrooms' decades of LIES! :)
*Omnivore here, and if I'm honest, it's primarily just because I like meat. The cognitive dissonance is real though, so I'm always on the lookout for ethically- (or more ethically-) sourced meat (y'know, to ease the weight on my conscience of the blood debt somewhat). We have a lot of small producers in our area so it's not impossible, though it is some effort.
It's more a sign of how horrible the nutritional situation was, because of course, mushrooms provide ridiculously little nutrition. Their main use was as a spice, not a source of nutrition. You need to eat a ridiculous amount of mushrooms to replace a normal meatless meal, much less a meat meal.
Don't think "this is a good survival strategy". Think "we're so low on nutrition that even eating whatever mushrooms you could find is useful enough that it decides who lives and dies". It's better than nothing, but that's a _long_ way from saying "this is a good replacement for meat" :D
@@LuaanTi a spice? What are you on about? They were used as functionally a vegetable, like in chicken and mushroom pies. Just like with peas, they’re not really technically a vegetable but in cooking they’re treated as a vegetable.
@@kaitlyn__L Yep, they're used that way, but that doesn't change the fact that you get little nutrition from it (I was forced to eat a lot of mushroom meals as a kid, don't worry). It's there mostly for the taste and texture, not for nutritional value (apart from a few handy micro-nutrients, granted).
There are exceptions, of course, but not every mushroom is a bolette. Bolettes are still peanuts compared to meat, though they do beat most vegetables. But the Ancient Romans already treasured them as a "rare" delicacy; not some leftover junk for the peasants to eat in need :) They're also really bulky, and generally perish very quickly (though of course, pickled mushrooms are very common).
It's obvious enough when you dry mushrooms - there's not much stuff left after you get rid of the water and air :) After all, we're talking about the flowering organs of a wild plant.
Useful addition to a starved person, certainly (and indeed, many edible mushrooms have been discovered just that way, by starving people looking for anything to put in their mouth). But not nearly enough to actually stave off starvation. Their main use has always been for the aroma, taste and texture. The micro-nutrients do help, of course.
I knew as soon as you started talking about sexual degeneracy that Kellog was eventually going to make an appearance
Yup
Lolz😊😊😊
I had a moment during nursing school where i felt like I was going insane. I had previously known about the whole John Kellogg story and sure enough, when I was in a class focusing on Maternity nursing, the subject of circumcision came up.
Circumcision was taught as a medically necessary procedure to maintain hygiene and cleanliness. I had brought up the entirety of the Kellogg story and people simply did not believe it at first. They insisted that uncircumcised men were signifcant risk of infection and, "the cheese," from growing. The argument was eventually settled when the professor looked up the information for themselves on the smart board. To give them credit, they did actually change their stance on the subject and apologize to me.
the circumcision is really backwards and I'm surprised people still argue for it. even if the cheese dick thing was real (for a normal western man who showers at least a few times a week it isn't) but even if it was, it's not like you'd cut your ears off to save yourself from having to wash behind your ears. mutilating a child over such a reason is insane.
@@JewTube001 It's because (In their minds) cleaning a dick requires touching the dick, and that's just too much temptation. Serious infections in uncut men raised in religious households was more common than you might think. My father-in-law was honestly concerned our son wasn't circumcised because of the gnarly dicks he saw in uncut men entering the seminary with him. (he left the seminary after a few years). Of course the real solution is clean your junk, and check under the hood, which is how I'm raising my son.
@JewTube001 it should be illegal with only religious exemption.
@@abiku2923No religion should be an excuse to mutilate a child.
@@mothman8300 I agree, definitely.
But I think it would be better to leave that fight till another day, rather than risk gridlock over a losing position.
The “grandmas being obsessed with poop” thing made my jaw hit the floor because my grandma is 100% that old lady. And she was a high school biology teacher, so it must have been pretty dang convincing for her era.
Me too! When I was little and I’d tell my grandma that I had a headache, she would ask me when was the last time I pooped! Without fail!!! 😂
Well, fiber is still pretty low in American diets, so there is something to be said about it. Maybe not for headaches, and maybe not four times a day, but a lot of people would feel better if they were more regular. Probably live longer too, if the studies connecting low fiber diets to heart disease are true.
Mine too. You would ask "how ya' doin'?" and she starts describing her last 72 hours of bowel movements. 😂
Oh yeah, you ever seen ads for laxatives? You know how they talk about "regularity"? Only two generations ago it was still believed that if you didn't take a dump _at the same time every single day_ you were seriously ill. Having a "regular" pooping schedule was the "juice cleanse" of the 19th and early 20th centuries.
An old friend was a new-age boi whose mom taught him that he should poop after every meal or he wasn't healthy. It was the 80s so the extreme water drinking hadn't come back around in force yet. Since I have IBS-C, I was naturally "bad" and he was "good" because he pooped 3-4 times a day. They also believed in homeopathy and the usual crystals 'n' goldenseal bs of the late 80s. I got into all that and was a vegetarian (not vegan, but not a lot of animal products) for 5 years. Didn't help my poop, and I still got sick a lot, but it didn't hurt either! I'm working my way back to it, but since I grew up with it, it's hard not to float through the air toward the scent of frying bacon. It's handy that meat's so f'king expensive these days that I rarely buy it. And now I've come to the point where I eat eggs, but I pay for the super expensive "Pasture raised" because free range apparently doesn't mean jack about how much space they have. And you know, chickens are kind of cute so if I'm going to eat them or their eggs I'd prefer it not involve torture. Same with milk and cheese - when I can afford it.
I'm not into the pseudo-religiosity of veganism, otherwise it's all good. Just don't try to go all fundamentalist and say it's the "only *moral* way to be." Because browbeating people, it turns out, isn't very effective in convincing them to change. Whenever I watch "That Vegan Teacher" I crave meat, deep fat lard-fried onion rings and a bacon milkshake. It's fleeting, so I don't run to the nearest In-N-Out, but in short, she's clickbait incarnate. She just wants the views, not to change anyone - more a caricature of a real vegan. Like, at least Corey Booker has a sense of humor about it. I've been friends with a dude (The Atheist Comedian, Keith Lowell Jensen) who's been a vegan for over 30 years. I've never seen or heard him try to browbeat anyone into eating like he does.
This bit of *fluff* stuff and nonsense rambling brought on by minor brain damage. At least I hope it's minor.
Interesting fact: One of the earliest (possibly _the_ earliest) European to advocate for vegetarian on ethical grounds was Pythagoras (yes, triangle guy), there was a whole religious cult associated with him focused on worshiping the cosmological significance of maths and also, somewhat randomly, vegetarianism.
Ah yes, Monsieur de legume 😂
Now that's a religion I can get behind
Ancient greece is wack
Actually it was not randomly, it was tied to the fundamental question of "the soul" in that times philosophy, and therefore certain views of the soul (in animals) made Pythagoras a vegetarian. He also was not alone with that in the greek philosophy, where there emerged some philosophical system where animals had a soul the same as humans (in some systems even where potential human souls) and therefor eating Animals was seen as 'moraly' bad.
This has happened in a lot of advanced societies though. In Europe, vegetarianism and veganism is growing.
As a vegetarian, I get depressed if I don't eat well-cooked meals on the regular. Spices, teas and curries are what keep me motivated.
Honestly, I cannot stop thinking about how deficient in nutrients the people of former days must have been
Try and eat a little meat. 😁😁It will help with that depression.
Not vegetarian but fresh meals are undeniably great for my personal health. Used to nuke frozen meals since I worked odd hours, but moving within walking distance of a farmers market got me to change to fresh breads and produce.
Still like meat, can’t cut it out but I try to eat everything I buy, especially if it’s meat. A wasted chicken breast hurts far more than a rotting tomato for me, I typically cook the same day I purchase most meats unless I got something planned.
I keep my fridge scarily empty, just eggs, milk, butter, condiments and two drawers of vegetables.
@@SCIFIguy64 It is so odd when you are grumpy, then have a good meal with maybe good company and just feel way better
I've been a vegan for over 20 years, and although I have enjoyed graham crackers and cornflakes, i've gotten a lot more enjoyment out of ginger, garlic, onions, and spices and stimulants in general, including coffee, tea, wine, beer, spirits, and, of course...masturbation. 😁
I went vegan years ago and ended up in a hospital because i didn’t have enough nutrients lol now I’m for the most part a pescatarian (though i also eat other meats on occasion)
What fascinates me most about people claiming that masturbation led to poor health is that people often turn to masturbation as a means of self-soothing, which is something you tend to seek out when under the stress of poor mental or physical health. The association probably didn't come out of nowhere but people had to get weird and judgmental and victim-blamey about it
They're still doing it today! The modern anti-masturbation movement tries to blame depression on masturbation as a consequence of depressed people sometimes masturbating to excess as an attempt to alleviate depression.
From my own experience for being diabetic, masturbation make the symptom worse like I get more sore skin and open wound or scabs which usually it's only appears on my leg then starting to appears on upper body like my hand, chest and my back. This is happen even I'm on diet.
This is may sounds disgusting to read, after masturbating few hours later the scabs is little bit swell and festering.
I can't tell my doctor about this because it's too embarrassing, I mean if only I can keep my identity private even from doctor themselves.
thats so interesting! i think i heard somewhere that ppl with anxiety/low blood pressure are more likely to have masturbation addictions.
@@politelical540I'm sorry that happens, but that's very observant of you. I'd try writing it down and passing that note to your doctor (maybe even ask for it back after they're done reading) it may lead to an improvement you didn't know possible?
Tbh though, watchin porn and masturbating regularly is pretty unhealthy. I cant imagine anything good can come out of consistently giving into sexual desires and continously watching content where women are objectified to the most extreme form. With all of these marriage dynamics where the sex lives of couples are ruined due to a husbands porn addiction or his unrealistic views of sex to young boys perception of women being warped, I cant really understand how there are those who insist that regular porn watching and masturbating are good, healthy things.
To be fair to grandma (around the hour mark), now as a parent, most of my kids' health complaints come down to asking them if they drank enough water, need to poop, need a snack, or need a nap.
Me before parenthood: haha, look at these goofy fiber ads... "oh, I feel soo out of sorts and irritable. I must need to poop!" That's so dumb 🙄😂
After parenthood: my god, who knew "not pooping for 2 days" can turn a child into a tiny, cranky jerk?? 😫🤦
😂
@@moxiebombshellnot having kids is easier. buncha little scumbags
I mean, after working as a caretaker on a summer camp, I learned that in some cases asking "did you poop" is worth a shot. My colleague once had a kid who said his lower abdomen hurts and, when asked, confessed that he didn't defecate or urinate in 24 hours.
@@moxiebombshelltake care of your children
As a Hindu vegetarian, I am only 2 minutes in and I have already been thrown into an psychological roller coaster
Come on Hindus are quacks
Yeah, these people ain't like us. Glad we're not being drawn into this topic for now.
Still, over in India, we do have BJP cow protection squads and an ongoing pro-vegetarian culture war. We're not safe from crazy.
@@MrGksarathy Dude how are you everywhere I go lol
@@goodpol5022 Similar backgrounds lead to similar watch history? I don't fully understand either.
😂😂 I hope you’ve recovered 🥰
Folding Ideas and Knowing Better both dropping videos within 24 hours of each other is like finding a hundred dollar bill in your pocket at the flea market. You're shocked and ecstatic about all the weird shit you're about to hear, see, and learn about, and you know it's gonna be a great time no matter what you stumble on
somehow i'm not surprised that the audience for KB and folding ideas is nearly a venn diagram
@@anarchohannibalismYou mean a circle? :P ○
That's partially because UA-camrs like them post within a day or two of the start of the month for Patreon reasons
I mean Folding Ideas is giving you more amazing stuff. The last couple of Folding Ideas videos are a little disappointing. The new one much better but the decentralns one could have been 20 minutes and got everything across.
@@joejoethehff7373 yes, lol. it was quite late when I was typing that 😅
It's so weird that the early vegetarians were both pretty ahead of their time, but also had wacky ideas. They'd get one thing right and another wrong.
Makes me wonder what our descendants will think about our ideas in one hundred years.
@@jackalope2302
They sure would look at solitary confinment as barbaric.
@@chompythebeast
Hi other aroace ^^
Also agreed, ACAB ^^
Most progressive movements are like that
@@chompythebeast If the US is barbaric I wonder what they would think of the countries that exist today who go around stoning people to death for being graped.
Louisa may Alcott is one of my favorite authors it’s so wild that she was part of transcendentalist vegetarian communes. It’s interesting to see how in her work she feeds the characters very well and gives them a wide variety to eat.
I love Little Women, but honestly it's not at all surprising to me that she came from some strict and sort of puritanical background. I tend to read the preachy bits in her books with some sort of distant and confused fascination, but I wouldn't exactly miss them if they dissapeared from the story.
There’s a bit in Eight Cousins im favor of Rational Dress, in favor of exercise for young women and against restrictive women’s fashions that could lead to you getting run over by a carriage horse
Every time you mention adherence to a bland diet, I keep thinking about how a variety of foods is the healthiest diet.
yeh， variety of foods is the healthiest diet.
Variety is beneficial, but not if it means adding detrimental foods like processed junk food or animal products.
Those who don't eat animals live longer and healthier lives according to the Adventist Studies. Links at my channel.
@someguy2135 ok mr. Graham
@@someguy2135SOME animal products are detrimental. But not ALL of them.
Ah yes saying things majes then true totally. You need animal products at minimum to survive as a human. Kind of obvious when you need supplements on vegan diets.@someguy2135
That fact that the video was not titled “Growing Better: A Guide to Vegetarianism” hurts me in my soul
Truly a missed opportunity.
How?
Edit: Oh, woosh lol. *Growing* Better instead of *Knowing* Better. Got it
Way better title! Love anything that resembles a pun.
@@busimagen I'd say it's a history of vegetarian movements. 80% of this video has nothing to do with *modern* vegetariansim.
I love the "vital fluids" bit, hints of Dr. Strangelove...One of the awfullest meals I ever had in the service was the vegetarian MRE I had one night...it was like eating floor tile.
Can confirm tile floor is more appetizing.
Yes, that's definitely where that character came from! 😅
Vegetarian MRE? 😮
Yeah they ARE awful…. And I’m a vegetarian too!
Yep. Meals Ready to Eat, US miliary rations. @@Pavlos_Charalambous
Graham is both the anti-liver king and also the 1800’s liver-king at the same time.
as soon as the stuff about “hard beds” came up, i immediately thought of the liver kin 😭
Was Graham on steroids too?
I cannot believe they had basically the equivalent of "liberal soyboys" and "socialist vegans" in the 19th century
They also had hardcore temperance movements.
Humans is the same
utopian* socialist vegans
@BIGBLUBLUR Humans "are" the same. The word is would be used if human was used in the singular sense.
@@osmiumsoul9535 People that have never watched Eric Andre is the same
Regarding silver.. I think it's just its antibacterial properties which made it popular for medicinal purposes. Of course, they didn't know *why* it worked, but it probably didn't get infested.
This was my thought as well. Same reason that silver cups were a traditional gift for newborns. It has some antimicrobial properties.
that seems the most likely, yeah. Silver and gold were known to not rot - but not *why*
Having been raised SDA, I love all these videos you do adjacent to the worldview I was raised in. I do hope you eventually cover SDA though because I love hearing people cover it that weren't raise in it. The indoctrination is so strong in it and outside voices help remind me how wild what I grew up in was. Thanks so much for your incredible videos. I look forward to every release!
You are the first person I've come across (in this community), that was raised in the same cult I was.
Sending you love, encouragement and solidarity.
I hear you. I live in Angwin where the pacific union college is. the SDA college.
I had a colleague in technical school who was SDA. She would say the cruelest, judgiest things in our faces while smiling with the candour of a Renaissance cherub -gotta give it to her, she was into chest stabbing, not talking behind our backs.
Back then, prior to the current right wing era when everyone feels safe saying the most hateful things publicly, I kinda admired that.
Whenever anyone complained she was being rude, she looked plain shocked, flat out CRIED and stated she couldn't do anything, "those were the facts".
I guess that prepared me, somewhat, for what would happen about 15 years later, when the "destroying with logic and facts" crowd appeared.
@@edisonlima4647You're pretty.
I too was raised in the SDA church
1:08:50 A dedicated video on the Eugenics movement in the USA would be VERY interesting in my opinion, with your typical long form thoroughness.
I think it is a part of the USA’s history that is either glossed over, or best case not discussed/looked into, at least as much as i feel, it should be.
I did a school project on it a LONG while ago, and only did a small amount of digging, but covering the organizations (as you did greatly in this video), as well as detail on those creepy “Better Baby Contests”, and also *Data Collection* which one group did quite extensively if I remember correctly. Tying into the broad theme of Slavery as practiced in the Americas may be good too.
Either way i think this would be an interesting, important, and well suited to *your* work type of video!
That’s just my thoughts though, schedule is probably plenty full as is lol.
You would love _Behind the Bastards_ - the host is a journalist proper, and his work is excellent.
@mookinbabysealfurmittens I just finished the Dilbert Scott Adam's BTB and I agree. A great podcast
@@aazhie That's a great one! I had no idea how deep that rabbit hole went, how his "sudden change" was more of an inevitability, considering his... worldview. Aliens! lmao.
Good god, I cannot stand this type of thought. You did a 'school project,' oh wow, you are so knowledgeable. You realize you can do research well beyond such depth as a 'school project,' right? Why even mention that? You want a cookie? Oh, and better tie it in to slavery, because my brainwashing told me that that is a good thing to do! Always have to tie various social factors together to come up with a BS explanation as to why, then vigorously dismiss anyone else that has a contrary explanation that doesn't fit within the 'approved' line of thought.
That's a four hour video at least lol. Physiognomy (Phrenology and Race Categorization fall under this), Theosophy (and, by extension, Neo-Spirituality), Asylums, IQ Testing and the Bell Curve, Forced Sterilization, Institutional Racism (including the Great Chinese Exclusion Act, Neo-Slavery, WWII U.S. Concentration Camps, and Native American Discrimination), Neo-Nazism and the Rise of Contemporary Fascism, and The American Eugenics Society (and its covert integration into modern think tank lobbying). Those could each be their own video, and that's only the stuff I know about. I don't have enough knowledge on how it interfaced with U.S. Imperialism, Politics, Religious Movements (outside of Theosophy), and Consumerism (outside of Kellogg here and Henry Ford), and I also have no knowledge of what I know nothing about.
There are a lot of good reasons to be vegetarian (which is why I am), but being afraid of "stimulation" is super definitely not one of them. What an enlightening rollercoaster of a video!
It's hilarious. I can almost imagine the "Jizz in my pants" song but it get triggered by food.
As someone who mostly eats vegetarian food, and a massive advocate of stimulation (both in the sexual and non-sexual sense), I cook extremely flavourful vegetarian food. I've already unintentionally amazed several fellow meat-eaters who used to think vegetarian food is bland and flavourless.
Fuck that! Vegetarian food kicks ass! And is exploding with flavour!
“Instead of meat, I eat veggies and pussy” -Citi Zēni
Stimulation is good. Inflammation is not. That's a benefit of most diets low in animal products.
@@Cancellator5000 never been less inflamed since I’ve been veggie
I feel like we're witnessing a weird inversion of what is being talked about in this video with all the fads surrounding Keto and other meat related diets for men.
Yeah...I am very confused where people get the idea that our ancient ancestors were somehow healthier. They had to spend nearly all of their time gathering food just to survive ( most of which was obviously not meat!) and would be super stoked to have access to what we eat now! Then these meat obsessed weirdos throw away all common sense and progress we've made because they don't understand nutrition and have some fantasy caveman living in their head as aspirational.
Not just for men, I'm seeing ladies everywhere banging on about scarfing down carnivore and butter.
Yeah because keto works. This crap doesn't.
@@RavingKats Almost every vegetarian or vegan that I've ever met has been female.
@@jliller Do you know billions of women?
Just because almost every vegetarian or vegan you know has been female doesn't mean the person you're responding to is wrong.
Great ending! I'm vegan and this is the most frustrating thing I stumble across (the purity test thing). Veganism is a behavior not a streak. Sometimes we act outside our behavior in rare circumstances, it's not a big deal. Great video overall and I look forward to you reaching 100% some day!
Nothing is more of a "purity test" to me than the egg debate. You own a few hens and they naturally lay unfertalised eggs. Is it vegan to eat those eggs?
Moral vegan: Yes because there is no harm done to the hen.
Pure vegan: No because the hen cannot consent.
@@ThaPinkGuy I'm pretty sure the hen doesn't care what you do with unfertilized eggs. Pure vegans of that sort should not be taken seriously
@@ThaPinkGuy I am not a vegan, but I think in that case part of the problem is not just what you do with the eggs, it's owning the hen at all unless it's some kind of a rescued companion animal? It's not just that it doesn't consent to you taking the egg, it's that you're keeping it in your yard for your own benefit and the egg is just a byproduct of that. Again, I do not believe this, but I do understand this argument and think it's consistent with the rest of it, at least if you're *also* the sort of person who won't buy a puppy from a breeder. (The one area I think doesn't hold up in general is honey; fair to avoid industrial producers, but I can't stress enough how you are killing so many more insects a day even with your *organic* groceries than a local beekeeper will be.)
@@Nassifeh I was keeping it simple so people could read and understand.
There are two factions of veganism and if you control all factors that still wouldn’t satisfy one faction because the bottom line is the same for them: no one should eat animal products.
The other faction is about reducing as much harm to animals that is possible.
@@ThaPinkGuy Except I don't think that's true? There's some fairly sensible reasons, even as a non-vegan, to think that unloved captivity constitutes "harm". Or even loved captivity, though fewer people would consider the impaired liberty of a chicken to be a serious problem. It's a spectrum, really, from the meat-eaters all the way down. There's no controlling all the factors; everybody's just making calls about *how much* harm they're okay with, and different people draw that line in different places.
I friggin' love Road to Wellville. And I went to highschool with a jainist, where not only can you not consume animal products, you cannot consume vegetables where harvesting them kills the plant.
So you can eat carrots? 🥕
@@genericamerican7574 Carrots are the root of the plant, so I would assume not. I assume they mean things like tomatoes or pumpkins where the thing we harvest and eat is just something the plant produces, as opposed to things like carrots or potatoes where the thing we eat is a crucial part of the plant itself.
@@guardingdark2860you can replant part of the carrot or potato so new stuff grows from it. Technically you did not killed the plant, it's just a symbiotic relationship.
@@mohandasjungThat is not what a symbiotic relationship is, but I see your point.
Patrick:"I could kill for a net like that! You know, something small like a carrot. But not spiders, they're icky."
Verdict: not a jainist.
The "when was the part time you pooped" question was the thing that really got me. I was born in 2000, and that's a question my father would ask me so the time, and something I still ask myself! Made everything here fell much more real
I met a guy once who pooped once every three weeks to a month. He was perfectly healthy. No constipation. No painful emptying. He had the all clear from the doctor. Meanwhile I go once to twice a day. Any less and I've definitely got something going wrong and will suffer greatly when it unclogs. Probably had to do with our size difference. I'm a tiny girl and he's a large man.
I find the idea, that 4 times a day is necessary, absolutely fascinating. I've never met a single healthy person who went that much.
@@ghostratsarahThe people who get even close to 4 times a day are mostly vegans that eat a ton of vegetables and fiber. Though as a vegan myself who consumes a lot of fiber, I’m still at once or twice a day lol
You and Dan uploading within the same short span makes this a very good time to be on UA-cam
Dan Olson? _Folding Ideas,_ yeah? Love him!
Can I just say thank you for choosing a safe for work title? I feel like some other creators may have chosen a more salacious title, which I normally don’t mind, but it makes listening to some video essays at work look a bit sus if someone comes up to my desk and I’m not prepared for them and it takes me a bit longer to close my phone. Also as usual this was beyond fascinating and you’re one of the most well-researched channels on this platform!
I didn't realize until I started watching.... the eggplant was the thumbnail for a reason xD
@@aazhie I didn’t even catch that😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
For videos whose title would embarrass you at work, I recommend opening up the comments so the comment box covers the name.
@@lucalinadreemur9448 that is what I do most of the time
Why are you watching this at work is the real question...
Another great one. I especially enjoyed the increased use of humour and the gamification of veganism at the end!
Hello person who funds a creator I enjoy.
2:09 This reminds me of IASIP’s Pepe Silvia scene a bit lol.
i wouldn't even call it "gamification"... it's just a very logical way to SERIOUSLY reduce meat consumption: by making the idea of eating less meat not some stupid virtue-signalling / judgey practice, and making it a real movement.
in fact, catholics already have a form of that practice: giving up meat on fridays. it's a very short hop over to giving up meat on more days (if you can) and removing the religious element from it. there's also fasting during lent, which can be modified into "eat less easter" or "munch less march" or whatever. point being, eat one less meal every other day for a month, just as a way to figure out if that works for you, eat no meat for 1-3 days a week, on your own volition, no pressure and no judgement, just a fun fad thing.
if we can do dumb shit like no fap november, we can do meatless mondays or watery wednesdays or fiber fridays or saltless saturdays. we just need health and wellness influencers to stop being grifters and do some actual good for once.
It's not quite gamification as much as it is a mindset that allows you to compromise on your beliefs every once in a while, which is healthy.
Silver is notably antimicrobial. As Kellogg was writing before stainless steel was a thing, if you were going to permanently embed metal, silver was probably the least harmful option (hypoallergenic gold gold being too soft and easily broken)
I'll be honest, I was really apprehensive going onto this video (being vegan myself), as most of the time we're mentioned online it's very unfriendly in nature, but this was really, really interesting! I appreciated the ending a lot, I think it's a really valuable message, and it was also very interesting to learn about the partial history of vegetarianism (at least in the US)
Good to hear! While I usually like Knowing Better's content, I wanted to check the comments first to figure out which tone he was going for. I'm not even a vegan, but I hate the reactionary defensiveness that is often the approach to veganism/vegetarianism.
Being 'anything' is stupid as hell. The main problem is people massively overeat
@@pyropulseIXXII don't think you intended to suggest existence is stupidity, though the world seems to agree with the sentiment
The fact that crazy vegan extremism gets media'ed to death probably doesn't help.
yeah as a vegetarian my life i find I've been attacked randomly so many times. it's one of those things people casually insult and put down. kind of like being gay in the old days or being a frenchman in the USA.
"Your bowels will be born again! Only available in Kiribati."
...
This is perhaps my favorite execution of that style of joke.
the link between vegetarianism and eugenics helps me to understand why many prominent Nazis were vegetarians and are therefore not really linked to modern vegetarians' concerns as the early vegetarians were focused on themselves and improving their personal lot and not necessarily focusing on the greater societal good as their principle driving force. So when Jordan Peterson points out that most of the senior Nazi leadership were vegetarians, he is relying on reading modern vegetarians' concerns for animal welfare back onto people who would not have recognized those concerns.
On the other hand, I can hardly believe that I just spent 2 hours to find out this little tid bit of information, and yet this was all strangely addictive and goes to underscore how little American proseletizing methodology has changed over the last century and a half!
Hitler did pass animal welfare laws tho.
Remember that this video focuses mostly on america.
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding thanks for pointing that out, not sure what to make of that or what the motivation would have been, it is too easy to read our own value sets onto to other people's decisions.
@@peterhumphryshitler didnt beleive he was evil. He passed animal welfare laws because he beleived it was a good thing to do. Hitler beleived what he was doing was morrally correct.
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding Hitler wore clothes and breathed air also
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_moddinganti vivisection and anti kosher butchering were already political movements in Germany before the Nazis picked them up and took them as their own. And as you conspicuously left out, one of the main things they did was ban kosher butchering. Don't think I need to go into detail on why the Nazis would be interested in that, however it is incredibly interesting you left that out, as it was one of the first results while doing a quick Google search and everything I read on the other animal rights laws also brought up the kosher butchering ban. It's really strange you left that out.
And, while they also did ban various forms of animal experimentation, like many other Nazi laws, they were rarely actually enforced on those committing the crime.
Again, it's really strange you just summarized all that into "Hitler passed animal welfare laws tho."
As a non-American vegetarian, this video is fascinating! Great job on the video (as always), I’m always amazed how you can make me rethink whole eras of history that I thought I knew
Going by your username I’m guessing you’re south asian? I’m a European vegetarian but I was the one white dude on a team of Indians and Nepalese for a long time, and their vegetarian food was some of the best I’ve ever had. Lots of love from the UK.
Personally I wasn't looking to be a vegan or vegetarian, but to be able to stick my limited income's small monthly budget. Yes it began with Meatless Mondays, but as prices of meat grew w/ inflation my meatless days grew to 2 then to 1 meal on the other days. So IDK where in this I lay, maybe accidental vegetarian, but I still enjoy having a cheeseburger, steak, etc yet I've always loved eating my vegetables. LOL ☺️
Flexitarian i suppose?
Opportunistic omnivore was what my roommate did. He didn't buy meat, but if someone else made food with it and offered, he wouldn't turn down freebies xD
"meatless mondays.""" Lmao, people are so fcking hilarious. Like how much meat are you eating for this to be a thing? I don't give a sh*t if I eat meat, yet i probably eat less meat than most of you cheater vegans. The problem is people overeat by a massive amount
As a Kiribati resident I am excited to flex my KB Morgan all brand malted nuts.
Kellogg would have a mental breakdown if they saw Tony the Tiger and how furries have turned the mascot for their anti-masturbatory food into the opposite.
I'm picturing Anthony Hopkins (who played a fictional version of Kellogg in The Road to Wellsville) having a conniption
I have seen that cartoon tiger committing sex acts that would shock the devil himself, Kellogg would probably die on the spot if you showed him the first image on rule 34.
@@dengar96
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
WHY DID I LOOK IT UP
@@dengar96 good.
@magpie689 it made me go "Oh NO! *OHOH NOHO!*"
Accidentally getting people to stop eating bleach, accidentally encouraging people to stop smoking before they knew it was bad for you... history is very funny sometimes.
Also your ferret in a box of packing peanuts is greatly appreciated, thank you
“They believed in pacifism, but they believed in abolition more.”
That line goes so hard. Idk why but it just eats
Edit: Russel Trall is based btw
The most important fact about John Brown is that he did nothing wrong.
@@spacedonut8157he’s the perfect example of legality being distinct from morality. There’s no question that he had the moral high ground, but he was murdered because of evil laws
@@Gloomdrake I’ve heard American conservatives call him a terrorist, and if what he did makes him a terrorist well then I am too and proud of it 😂
9:30 Romantic love most certainly was a concept, it definitely existed by the middle ages in Europe, I slogged through several boring books about it for some essays I had to do for my Courtly Love class. The Ancient Greeks had a bunch of words for love and one of them was Eros which can be lust but it can also be passionate romantic love. I love this channel but you got this part wrong my brother. I will agree that most marriages at the time you are speaking of were mostly arranged, the concept of romantic love did exist.
Agapa?
Exactly. There's a bunch of medieval romantic stories
I'm as far from being a medieval specialist as it's possible but wasn't love treated as some kind of tragedy or source of trouble at that time? I remember a story of this princess or smt. She was married but fell in love with knight (I don't remember the story very much). They decided to run away but they never kissed bc that would be a sin against God. They both died and they were found lying toghether with a sword between them to keep them from doing the nasty
Anyways love existed but it wasn't source of happines like it's framed today
From what I know Norse stories are full of blood spilling caused by tragic love
Maybe it is in the same regards as romantic love in Chinese literature 3000 hours ago. You could love anybody you wanted sure no problem. But your first love was to the family, so their wishes were your bidding. If your father told you to marry the woman next door who could be confused with cattle. Then you did so, and if you protested then you were rebelling against your family. And as Mencius said it. The man who does not want to continue the family unit is the worst of all.
You could take a second wife/mistress if you had the means to do so. Or you could go to the brothel if you did not like your wife.
Romantic love did exist but just like today in Confucian cultures we see that people choose to make their families happy over themselves. None of my Chinese friends found their own partner.
We got the very term "romantic" from "romance," which originally referred to a genre of Medieval literature.
Here in Germany, bread very often still is the meal. For breakfast and dinner people will often have slices of bread, with various spreads and toppings. The traditional big and warm meal of the day is lunch. Although with more and more people not having access to a propper big meal at noon, lunch and dinner often switch places, with another bread based meal for lunch, but a large, cooked meal for dinner. Some people nowadays might actually instead have a cooked meal both for dinner and lunch. But the proper way is cold bread- warm and big- cold bread again.
The absence of good bread is what frustrates me most about living in America
@@owenheckmann6962 start grinding and baking, it is easy
@@owenheckmann6962 Sometimes you have german bakerys there, I know one in Tacoma WA for example
As a European vegetarian I find this so interesting. For us vegetarian is a modern thing associated with healthy living and environmentalism, very post-war. We do have a lot of traditional vegetarian food, which it seems like america doesn’t, and it was very hard to find food I could eat in America. I hope to find out more about this and this video is an excellent starting point.
Your difficulty finding food might have to do more with where you were going rather than the US itself. As an American vegetarian, I found it incredibly difficult to find vegan options (or even vegetarian options) in most of the touristy areas of Europe. I went with a group, and when we went to restaurants, the only vegetarian option they could come up with was often just roasted vegetables. Similarly, I tend to have difficulty finding food in lots of US restaurants and tourist areas, but it’s not hard at most decent sized grocery stores these days
As a European? Europe is made of vastly different countries each with their own history of vegetarianism lol. Sometimes I wonder why people who follow a channel based on avoiding generalizations and thinking critically has such shitty takes.
its nice that i can now say "i'm 99% vegetarian" instead of "i accidentally ate a sandwich with prosciuto because i didnt know that was ham a few months ago"
😂
PROSCIUTO IS HAM?? I THOUGHT IT WAS A TYPE OF CHEESE 😭
Edit: like it sounds like a cheese name or something, like there’s bacon, steak, pork are all meat and then there ricotta, gouda, mozzarella and your telling me prosciutto doesn’t sound like a cheese name? (I think mixed it up with provolone because that kinda sounds like a meat name to me)
@@kiwipomegranateto be fair, i didn’t know what animal it came from until i read this comment
@@kiwipomegranate Though a pretty particular type of ham, "dry-cured" as opposed to uh "normal ham" that was like, smoked, boiled etc. In Italian it's straight up the word for (non-specific) ham, and the dry-cured one is "prosciutto crudo" whereas cooked ham is "prosciutto cotto"
Gelato isn't vegan?
There was and idea of romantic love back on the medieval ages, just look at French love poems of the eleventh and twelve Century.
The points of most of those poems was That the love was non sexual, unrequited, and more of a "worship" of the Lady.
I learned this in middle school damit
Yeah, he really screwed up with that one. It started as an oversimplification and became an outright falsehood. Thankfully it's a pretty small part of the actual video, which is otherwise pretty well-researched.
This doesn't seem like a screw-up? This seems like a thing where you know perfectly well what he meant, everybody knew perfectly well what he meant. It's an exaggeration for effect.
I feel so validated knowing I'm not the only one being weirded out by the word "stomachache"😂😂
Same, especially when you pronounce it stoma-chache.
English is my second language, I always thought it's writen as two word.
@@Acinnnas somebody with English as a first language, I've always seen stomach ache written as two separate words, and my voice to text writes it as such as well.
Like discovering "meow" in "homeowner".
I thought it was intriguing that he pointed that out, but didn't even mention that Great American Stomachache can be abbreviated to GAS.
As a "statistically vegetarian" myself, I'm happy that this video ends on promoting this approach. It is so much more friendly, and is perfectly compatible with environmental motivation.
Also, it took moving from Eastern Europe to US and discovering great traditional vegetarian cuisines like Indian for me to even consider going vegetarian. Enjoyment is the integral part of a healthy relationship with food.
Having been a fan of your channel for years, watching every video multiple times, was a bit worried on this one as a vegan my entire adult life and how aggro a lot of people are towards it. Honestly, hilarious and educational video as always, loved it.
why?
@@vincentyoung8472who cares? A lot of people do. You even care so much to comment instead of ignoring it
@@vincentyoung8472perhaps by age, location or diet you seem to not deal with people who complain about vegetarians or vegans. Lucky you. It does happen a lot though, there will always be people who want to complain about anything they see as different to their own experience. Unwittingly you've been a great example of this.
I'm only ever "aggro" when vegans attack indigenous peoples for their customary dietary habits.
Or when y'all purity test me and say I'm not a good communist because I drink milk. (Usually, while personally partaking in very anti-working class practices, such as landlording. Landlord vegans, go fuck yourselves.)
@@davidjennings2179 is it more because its a constant hassle people have to take into consideration? I know what its like tho to be allergic or being medically unable to eat certain things, it sucks
I think it's just amazing a) the depth of the differing topics you cover, and b) you have successfully "made" me watch an over hour long video on the history on vegetarianism. Well done!
You're one of the very few UA-camrs who makes hour+ long videos that I am not only willing to watch, but excited to watch!
My girlfriend is a vegetarian (a very normal one) and i looked her dead in the eyes and said your philosophy is why my hoodie got cut off as a baby. Then busted out laughing and told her what i learned from this video. Thank you KB your channel is incredible.
I find it funny how it sounds like this is a very different thing in America. If you said that in Europe everyone would think you’re stupid 😂
first a 2.5 hour Dan Olsen video and now an hour from KB?? Best weekend ever
I always assumed that the modern Western vegetarian/vegan movement vaguely came from the hippy movement so all of the very strange ideas about health and sex and religion mixed in historically were fascinating. The Vegetarian Society is still around in the UK; I don't know how official it is but you see their logo on some certified vegan and vegetarian products. I never expected that their origins were obscure Christian groups!
I was surprised the US side had multiple different official societies, since as you say the UK one is still intact! It seems to have moved with the times at least. But it definitely explains some of the other weird slants in their club magazines that still hang around under the surface. (NB my experience is limited to what my parents got circa 95-05, maybe 2010ish)
I've been a vegetarian for a very long time, and I gotta say, this has been a fascinating history on these early weirdos.
It's also pretty refreshing to hear a fair take on the modern diet from someone with different eating habits. I usually avoid telling people how I eat cause they tend to get all weird and defensive or start with the jokes.
The people who immediately start trying to justify to me why they eat meat. I don't care! You don't need to justify your dietary choices to me!
@@bananewane1402It's almost like they feel *guilty* or something. Like our existence is a reminder of something shameful in themselves.
@juliagoetia people who live differently always bring up a defensive response in people. Other ways of living imply you may not be living correctly, which threatens the ego of small-minded folks.
@@dengar96 True that amigo
@@busimagen I'd say it's honestly a mixture of both. As a vegetarian who also doesn't eat sweets, drink, or smoke weed I notice people get very defensive when I POLITELY decline offers of meat, booze, weed, and/or sweets.
I had a girlfriend who was a vegetarian, when I started asking about the details of what she does and doesn't eat she said "I don't eat anything that has a face"
Very common rule
no to jesus toast!
So clams yes?
@MarcoBonechi bivalves like clams and oysters most vegans don't have any issue with whatsoever because as of now science shows they don't have a central nervous system or brain so currently it's pretty much theorized that they don't feel any pain whatsoever and aren't aware of the experience of life. This could change in the future but I, as a vegan have no issues with people eating clams but I probably still wouldn't eat them myself because they filter the toxins out of the water. Sure, they have a lot of zinc but they also have everything they filtered out of that water. In our polluted world I don't understand why anyone would eat ocean filters but hey, it's their life...
@@MarcoBonechi yea she was bi
It seems like you could do a really good video on the beginnings of bodybuulding / "physical culture" and maybe even its evolution into modern day.
If anything, I feel like a lot of people are becoming more vegetarian simply because meat costs so much more than it used to. My own consumption of legumes, mushrooms, and root vegetables has gone up quite a bit in the last 2 years. Still working on the more perishable vegetables.
Yeah, sometimes I'm an "involuntary vegetarian" ("InVeg", new incel lore unlocked) because its cheaper.
tempted to try that myself. I LOVE meat, but it costs a fortune
"Are you the American Vegetarian Society?"
"F**k off! We're The American Society of Vegetarians"
"Well, where is the American Vegetarian Society?"
"There he is, over there. Splitter!"
*AVS raises a single middle digit in response*
With apologies to Monty Python!
😂 nice
Knew someone else would have the same thought 😂
Silver is the cheapest of the antimicrobial metals which is probably why it was used. Also, some kids do have chronic constipation and asking when the last time they pooped is the fastest and most effective diagnostic tool why their tummy hurts. Time for a prune juice and x-lax cocktail.
You should make a video about The Anonymous Programs (ie, AA or NA); the history the foundings, how it works. It'll tie in to your other vids as well.
more like how it doesn't work
Agreed, desperately want to see this breakdown
Great video, as always.
The moment you mentioned mary baker eddy my heart stopped lol. It felt like an easter egg to the avengers in an iron man movie. The Knowing Better verse
Amazing video! I wasn't expecting it to go pro-vegetarianism at the end, and I was low-key blown away by the gamefied harm reduction approach to vegetarianism that followed it. This video was like a movie full of delightful surprises, with a twist-ending AND a thought-provoking message. I'm recommending it to all my friends. ❤
I grew up in Battle Creek! The BC Sanitarium building is still there, but now serves as the local Federal Center. The old Kellogg factory there used to have a tourist destination known as cereal city - you could get a custom printed Corn Flakes box with your photo on it - several family members have one still.
I've been vegan for over a year now. Believe it or not but abstaining from meat has been the easy part. I buy soy meat substitute and then do non-vegan recipes. If you didn't know it was soy substitute you might not even realize that my diet is vegan.
I also realized that the main issue with vegan cooking is that people don't use enough oil in their cooking because they cook with the expectation of fats from the meat. Soy meat is too lean to contain those fats so you need to add extra oil in the cooking to make up the difference, otherwise your food risks becoming too dry or lackluster.
The hard part is abstaining from other animal products, mostly leather and wool since manufacturers don't offer the consideration that these things deserve.
As a vegan of 10 years, I'd argue leather and wool are actually better in terms of environmental impact than plastic and cotton alternatives. They are more durable and last far longer, and even when they do go to the landfill, they are biodegradable. In terms of animal welfare, there's a lot of fearmongering around sheering sheep that isn't true.
I would also add that that wool sheep absolutely need to be sheered (meat sheep do not need sheering). It's like with dairy cows - they've been bred to overproduce. A good dairy cow breed produces more milk than their calf can drink - they need to be milked. A sheep's wool will keep growing, much like the hair on our heads. Bees produce more honey than they need. Chickens lay far more eggs than they can reasonably hatch, let alone actually raise - and ofc, if there's no rooster present to fertilize the eggs, there's no possible chick anyway.
The ethics of impregnating a cow as soon as she gives birth to keep her milk flowing is obviously problematic, just like separating the mother from her calf. And ofc, keeping animals indoors all the time is definitely not good for the animals and leads to diseases and health problems the animals wouldn't have otherwise (or wouldn't be very common at the very least).
As for leather? Hindus and Buddhists have had prohibitions on killing animals for over 2000 years, but they still used leather. They just waited for the animal to die naturally and then made use of their dead bodies because otherwise, it would be wasteful.
I've come to notice that a lot of the vegan arguments about domesticated animal welfare don't seem to actually know much about the animals they claim they're arguing on behalf of. But it is worth noting that most of the vegan arguments tend to focus on the practices of factory and corporate farms, rather than the average family farm. But thanks to the opacity of our food and product distribution networks, there's no real way to boycott factory/corporate farms without either doing a ton of meticulous research or just not using those kinds of products at all. Well, unless you've got a neighbor that raises animals and so you can just get your products straight from them.
For example, there's just no way to buy ethical chicken meat in the US unless you're buying it directly from a farmer and you know for a fact that they _don't_ shove the birds into tiny cages and feed them a ton of grain and antibiotics to get them ready for butchering in about 6 months.
Oh no. The poor sheep. Getting shorn is just devastating for them. Look at how they freak out and run around the pasture afterwards.
@@TV-8-301It’s also worth noting that a major part of vegan arguments that informs why all exploitation of animals is unacceptable in their view even if there isn’t obvious immediate harm happening, such as with shearing sheep, is about how commoditization of animals leads to a profit incentive to cause harm. So even if shearing sheep doesn’t cause cause harm if done in an effective way, selling the wool turns the sheep into a product rather than a creature whose wants and desires (including the desire not to get hurt) matter. Even on relatively more ethical family farms (which aren’t anywhere near accessible to the vast majority of consumers), the animals are still commodities foremost, and that’s what vegans see as the problem. The modern leftist vegans, at least, would support that, I’m sure there exist others that would disagree, especially the ones being t in this video
@@TV-8-301 - "In terms of animal welfare, there's a lot of fearmongering around sheering sheep that isn't true."
I'm curious how you feel about eggs in that vein too. Factory farming is obviously bad, but when it comes to locally sourced eggs (ie, your friend has a chicken coop and just has a fuckton of eggs because chickens lay a fuckton of eggs), where does that lie on the scale, or is it more of a "just no because it's annoying to keep track of" thing?
Having bought into multiple ideological diets and researched the health and environmental implications I'd have to say that no one diet fits all people. For your own health we have to note our body's responses to different food and alter it accordingly. This is why I'm no longer vegetarian or vegan, I couldn't survive healthily on it. In terms of diet, the primary path we all need to take towards healthy eating is to avoid processed foods. Another important point is that animal rights activists have had a massive impact on affecting our attitudes towards the ethics and environmental soundness of eating meat. Their voice and rhetoric has drowned out a lot of relevant research that we as a society are not taking into account. In environmental terms our priority should be local, ethical production of food, and eating according to the season.
Wow. My paternal grandparents were born in the 1910s and lived on a farm in Michigan not far from Battle Creek. My grandma was at one point very obsessed with how many bowel movements she had in a day, at one point becoming upset when the number wasn't enough. I always assumed that that was just the dementia setting in (which she did have). They weren't vegetarian or Seventh Day Adventist and neither of them ever talked about yogurt enemas or water baths, but they were teetotalers (abstained from alcohol). This video now makes me wonder if there was more than just the dementia going on.
Always feels amazing when KB uploads.
I subscribed to your channel after your last upload, so this is my first new upload! Very excited. Since subscribing, I've caught up on a lot of your past topics, and I love the style/tone/discussion you try to foster. Some of the very cheesy cutaways make me think of Doctor Who, in the best way! Thanks for doing what you do, sincerely, internet stranger.
As a vegetarian who chose to be vegetarian before Kindergarten because my mom and 7th day Adventist church community, I had no idea about all this history! Makes me think about everything I’ve been taught and influenced by throughout history!
Thanks for this video!
*I LOVE the cork push pin string connection relationship thingy!* You have to level it up, by making it a map of the places your explaining! State map, US map, world map ect. *GO BIG WITH IT!*
It would literally just be a map of New England lol
I loved the bit at the end about how vegetarianism isn't a binary. I'm like 99% lacto-vegetarian but I'm not vegan, even though I know it would be ethically better.
It isn't binary. Sure you're causing less pain, but you still see animals as commodities, from which you can profit. That isn't veganism, and he isn't vegan so he can't really have much say about that.
@@EasyWater I would reject the notion that paying someone to murder people and bring me their flesh to eat necessarily implies I see them "as commodities." I think I'm perfectly capable of seeing someone as a fellow sentient living being with as much right to life as I have right before I kill and eat them. Maybe this isn't true for you. Maybe your values have more causal sway over your behavior than mine do. But frankly, I highly suspect you're just in more denial than I am about how much of your behavior is governed by habit and short-term self-interest.
@@mygills3050 no thoughts head empty
@@Xidnafkilling animals for food isn't morally wrong at all
The purity thing also puts off a lot of people from trying it
Its honestly really insteresting how like the movement died out a few times and is still coming back with different beliefs in each one. I really enjoy your videos so keep up the hard work and know you have our support
I just finished watching Folding Ideas' 2 & a half hour video on the 2021 GameStop short squeeze, & then literally less than one minute later, this pops up in my recommendations.
Today has been a good day for watching long-form deep-dives.
Hell yeah it has.
Haha just finished that video yesterday. The best timeline
So I knew Kellogg's cereal was invented by a Seventh Day Adventist but I did not know the same guy invented peanut butter. Weird to think one guy is essentially responsible for about 3/4 of the breakfasts I have ever eaten.
I would love to see a video on Seventh Day Adventists! It would tie in nicely to both this video and the previous videos on religions that were invented in the U.S. My mom had a Seventh Day Adventist penpal for a little while but I don't know a lot about them.
Also, for those who might be wondering, Bronson Alcott was Louisa May Alcott's dad.
LOL I was listening to a podcast about Kellog and the and anti fap movement, then saw this new video! You're on time and on topic, Mister Knowing Better. Best channel on UA-cam.
I really like the gentle call to action at the end. It’s that exact perspective that convinced me to start cutting out meat at my own pace, and now I’m at a place where I’m perfectly happy with how little my “percentage” is.
Being allergic to dairy did give me quite the head start on the non-meat side of veganism, though.
Yeah I'm not ready for veganism yet, but two big shifts at home are Impossible Nuggets instead of chicken nuggets for the kids (they literally taste just like mid-quality chicken nuggets! It's crazy!), and certified humane, free-range organic chicken vs. "regular" chicken. If I'm going to eat an animal, I'd like it to have had something resembling a life beforehand, at the least.
We didn't eat a meat heavy diet, as it was, so that helps. I make a mean granola that I eat with a bunch of fresh berries and plain Greek yogurt as my main meal, which seems like something the old vegetarians would appreciate, except that I'm sure my granola is too spiced and full of flavor for them 😅
Yuuuuup😊
I can never go full vegan because
1. On my period I just psychologically cannot feed myself impossible meat. Will eat nothing at all if there's no burgers
2. A lot of vegan fabric alternatives are plastic. In the long run it seems better to buy a single garment, wear it forever, and pass it onto the kids, that's better than a constant churn of vinyl and polyester clothes
I like vegan ideologies that allow for flexibility to accommodate other things I also believe in strongly
@@PrincessNinja007 a lot of my personal ideology overlaps with freegans, particularly with respect to clothing/fabric/leather. For example, I got my everyday bag/sack/purse at a thrift shop. It's leather and has shown itself to be incredibly durable, much more so than any fake leather or cloth bag I've used this heavily. I don't feel particularly guilty or irresponsible in getting it because I'm not producing extra waste by needing to replace it over and over again, but also since I got it at the thrift shop it's had at least one owner before me already; I'm extending the bag's life. In my opinion, despite the bag being leather this ultimately benefits the earth and the animals more than if I bought a new plastic "vegan leather" bag.
Its wild how.. Graham was both way progressive for his time, and actually pushing a more healty lifestyle FOR HIS TIME.. and then became such a drag on progress past his era? he is essentially an icon of both progressive ideas, and conservative ones, depending on the era.
I’m watching this while smoking pork ribs… this rack is for you Graham!
The conclusion rings true: I was vegan last year, but as I ate meat in a few social settings at the beginning of the year, I stopped, feeling I "failed" at being vegan, so I went back to eating meat and dairy products. But, seeing it in terms of % is a healthier approach. I still go meatless during the week, big batches of curry or chili are an easy staple, but I'll strive to increase the % of meatless meals I have.
This is so real! I’m totally gonna start using the percentage thing. I was vegan for about two years, and then decided to go back to being vegetarian because of wanting to protect my ED recovery/lack of vegan options in my area. I still prefer a lot of vegan food, but I kept feeling guilty for not being 100% vegan anymore. It’s nice to think about it as a “do what you can” thing vs. an on/off switch, because flexibility with food is good and every bit helps.
Obviously, looking at it as harm reduction, every bit counts, but it fails a bit on the ethics. Like, imagine some said to you, I've only murdered two people this week. Sure, it is better that they didn't murder more, but no amount of murder of people is acceptable. When extending the right to life to animals, it sounds like, "I didn't really WANT to murder that person, but what can I do? I don't think I could stand never murdering someone again."
This is 100% different than something like alcohol recovery, where where the goal is about separating the act from the person and self-improvement.
Also, naturally, ethics are complicated. We allow for some percentage of accidental human deaths, after all.
@@akamesamaObviously, if one equates eating meat occasionally to literal HOMICIDE, it doesn't fit. But that's as false an equivalence as it gets - and why so many people run for the meat aisle when some self-righteous veggie/vegan comes over with the "Ethical" argument. Do you want to make semi-salient judgmental points and convince no one, or do you want to encourage people to eat more mindfully and work towards a goal by accepting that it's not an all or nothing game, like it is with many addictions? You sound like an Evangelical Xtian. Which is why veganism has been likened to evangelical and other fundamentalist religious dogma.
@@jooleebilly Is it not equivalent if you extend the right to life to animals? I realize that not everyone does, but when people talk about it being wrong, that is usually what they mean.
But obviously my point was not to say it is literally homicide, but point to an analogous case that everyone would agree on to draw a comparison.
And I already said that it is obviously better from a harm reduction standpoint, but someone who reduces meat eating for, say, fad diet reasons is likely to revert their diet, compared to someone who holds an position based on ethics.
My point isn't to purity test, but to get people to examine their ethical positions.
@@jooleebillybut to some it is equivalent. Calling it extremist or fundamentalist is silly. It is just different from you.
You've done a great job putting all of those people, events, and organizations into a cohesive timeline. Very interesting history lesson.
My partner and I are vegans and we appreciate your making this video. It was facinating.
I am not surprised that progressive activists like abolitionists often did not eat meat.
Other ideas like eugenics are obviously fundamentally wrong, but the goal of improving mankind was a noble one.
Their method for doing so was the problem. Education is the key to improving mankind. Learning about this important topic is one way to do that.
Zwieback is a staple snack food here in Switzerland so I was really taken aback when you said people didn’t like it, but I’m guessing that American version of Zwieback didn’t contain sugar, whereas Swiss Zwieback is basically crunchy Brioche bread, i.e. pretty sugary
PS: in German the letter ’Z‘ is pronounced like ’ts‘, not ’s‘ like in English. So ’zwieback‘ is pronounced ’tswiback‘
Americans give Zwieback to teething toddlers to soothe their gums.
As always, a Knowing Better video is the highlight of the current season.
A note about the bit at the end:
I started being vegetarian 3 years ago, and in that time I’ve accidentally eaten meat products like 4 or 5 times. While I got frustrated with myself, I never took those mistakes as reasons to stop. I’ve kept on going like nothing happened and encourage anyone else looking to change themselves to keep on it too.
First off, I VERY MUCH enjoy your work as a whole. Long time watcher/lurker, first time commenter.
But...as someone who has a PhD in Medieval Studies and who specialized in a theological topic for her dissertation (penitential despair, because I'm completely emotionally healthy, why do you ask?), your theology of love could use a bit of nuance. (I had a similar take on your Dante video but it seemed mean to quibble.)
You could certainly love yourself and your neighbor, or else Matthew 22: 37-39 makes no sense. Yes, these were reflections or lesser copies of the love you owed God, but still valid. That's the truth behind the three kinds of violence punished in the Seventh Circle, after all. (Violence against neighbors, self, and God).
And don't even get me started on the different kinds of love according to classical philosophy/ early Christianity (eros, amor, agape/caritas, etc.) and the emergence of romantic love... C.S Lewis' The Four Loves (1960) is helpful in this regard. Dante's love for Beatrice represents the depth of these nuances and complications.
Also, you go from referencing "the Christian world 1000 years ago" to the Renaissance and then back to ca. 1200, which is on the vague side. I studied the 12th and 13th centuries especially and have never heard of a formalized "demonic possession theory." I know what you're getting at, but I would say it wasn't as formally and specifically articulated as you imply.
Sorry if this has already been covered above. Thank you so much for your work!
I thought that was off too so im glad you commented
20:57 I just have to point out that white flour and products made from it wasn't necessarily cheaper, it just had a longer shelf life. It could therefore be stocked up to provide a reliable supply.
an absurd journey with a really good moral at the end! Genuinely love the take of treating it like a percentage high-score.
Reminds me of a comment i saw (maybe under an Atun-Shei video) about how a lot of early activists were pretty weird, which I was definitely thinking about over the course of this video
I think I saw that one too. Pretty sure it was under his new video about Martin Delany.
Considering psychology and sociology are fairly new sciences (a little over a 100 years old) and that reputable research and scientific institutions are also fairly recent, I think k they must be products if their times since they didn't really have facts or science to help guide their beliefs.
It's hilarious how little diet cults have changed.
What an excellent closing perspective! I was hesitant to start this video, because I'm super aware of the cognitive dissonance that I live with when it comes to meat consumption. For you to leave us with an easy and achievable growth perspective/plan, is why I knew it was a ""safe"" video to watch.
As a full blown vegetarian who hasn’t eaten meat in years, there’s no rush. Whenever I tried to rush the process of removing meat products from my diet, it just set me back. These things take time, it took me several years to get where I am now. If you want to try eating better, do so gradually with your mental health in mind. Peace, love, and veggies to ya my friend, hi from Cymru 😁
Dan Olsen and KB in one weekend, swag's news is going now; best UA-cam weekend ever!
When I was 12 I decided I love animals too much to eat them and turned vegetarian overnight, I been 100% vegetarian since then for the last 19 years, growing up in Israel it wasn't a hard switch, we mostly eat salads and falafel which are vegan :p
I got an AI generated ad for how Tenitus will cause a total memory wipe in a few years of getting it.
That must mean you’ve done your job.
Did you misspell tinnitus or tetanus?
@@jlillerTinnitus. I got it as well. The number of AI scam ads on UA-cam has increased drastically.