When you manage to make a VR enthusiast and pioneer like John Carmack run out of patience, you know you're screwing up. - Thank you Xreal for sponsoring this video! You can check out their AR Glasses using the following link: amzn.to/3MA8U4C PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea TOP PATRONS [CIPHER] - Devon B [BIG BOSS] - Jonathan Ball [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Peter Vrba - Time Dragonlord [LEGENDARY] - BattleBladeWar - Theron Webb
The problem is social media culture and companies using community managers and marketers to make project choices. Even shareholders think younger people being on the edge of what's trending understand better, but they ALWAYS seem to think the old grand masters (possibly due to not fitting their movie/tv fantasy characteristics) are ABSOLUTELY out of touch when in fact it's far more nuanced. Yes there are old goats who dont understand but we disregard even taking the time to objectively observe their insights to find out!
Zuck can’t even follow is own path to success. He didn’t start with the FB we know today. It was simple and targeted to college students. Trying to market and cater the metaverse to all of the demographics right for the start is such a mistake.
I don’t think people understand how fortunate we are that Meta’s plans have failed to this degree. What Zuckerberg wanted was truly dystopian. He wanted Meta to get to this nebulous “Web 3.0” metaverse concept before all others in order to monopolize it. And what would they do once they monopolized it? Monetize to hell and back. We all know how contentious Apple’s 30% cut is. Now consider that Meta wanted to take fucking 50% of all purchases made in its Metaverse. Now realize the horrific fact that they were pushing this onto enterprise as well, wanting remote workers to spend all their working hours inside this metaverse, where Meta takes half of any purchase they might make. We have seriously dodged a bullet, for now. But I won’t be at ease until Meta is in the dirt, or at least so cut down that they can no longer pursue these ambitions. But just because they were the first to try it doesn’t mean they are the last. Whether or not this Web 3.0 actually happens, we can’t let any one or two companies monopolize it like Apple and Google monopolized mobile platforms.
RTGame made a video on it and apparently you have to use your actual money to CLAP at a comedy show that another user does. The one on-stage gets none of the money btw :) Also there's a spiderman game. You jump off a building in vr. Like dude, heights in vr are bad
@@Slash0mega when you've gotten used to VR, (walking around, interacting with things, looking up, down and everywhere) you'd more than likely be tricked by your brain to think you're actually there experiencing those things. So if you're at the edge of a sheer cliffside looking out at sea and the waves crashing over rocks below you in VR and you feel someone pushes you irl, your brain panics and thinks you're falling to your death. In the Spiderman game, you swing like spiderman in first person, which is all fine and good. No wind in your hair unless you have a fan but that's fine. Then you miss a web shot and fall down. Your brain panics raising your heart rate, making you flail around potentially hurting yourself and/or people around you. If you're calm and can properly understand it's actually in VR it's ok though. All from what I can gather anyway
"John Carmack is synonymous with 2 things, Id software and virtual reality" so we're just gonna ignore that he basically invented modern 3D games, invented modern esports and broke into his schools computer lab with thermite to steal their PC's like heisenberg from breaking bad lmao. dude is probably the most important person in video game history still alive.
People don’t realize what a legend Carmack was before and during the Id Software days. And yes a movie about Is Software and the falling out between him John Romeo, and American McGee would be awesome.
He basically is to the FPS what Leo Fender was to the electric guitar: he may not have invented it, but he made it into the form that took the world by storm.
When he hands out advice, you fetch a desk, open your notebook, and write everything down. _Verbatim._ You can discuss it later after further analysis, but you damn better keep those notes.
Maybe don't? He's talented but he's also the same dumbass who thinks games should never have fleshed out stories. And the same malicious prick who killed a cat instead of simply putting it up for adoption. He's not a constant fountain of good advice, and people need to cease worshipping the ground he walks on like he's so infallible.
“What do you think of Carmack leaving the company” Company? What company? They lost their nerd. It’s over. You can get the pick of the litter for executives, you can hire all the contractors in the world, you can throw a king’s ransom of money into product development and more, but the moment you lose your nerd who actually knows how shit works and how to make it good, it’s curtains. That’s the death knell of any tech company.
Alfred Hitchcock said that three things need to be great in order to have a good movie: the script, the script, and the script. Likewise you need three things to be good if you want a successful tech launch: the scripting, the scripting, and the scripting. If the code is shit your project is shot. All the aesthetics in the world mean nothing if the product doesn't work. You need nerds, the more of them and the nerdier they are the better. One Steve Wozniak type is worth more than 500 Steve Jobs types.
One can envision a bridge or a skyscraper, but without the person to tell you how it can actually be built and willing to account for every steel beam and rivet it takes to construct it, it's just a vision. I know all the 'empowering' memes imply otherwise, but vision alone is not enough.
John Carmack is a Steven Hawking-Tier mind of our generation. After his failed attempt to steal an apple 2 as a high schooler with the aid of a thermite bomb, the guy went on to engineer the infastructure that... most games that use polygonal graphics can trace their lineage back to. GoldSrc and the Source Engine are built off of the IdTech 2 engine Carmack personally made. Unreal was made as Epic Megagames' ANSWER to the incredible groundwork Carmack laid for the business, and look just how many games are powered by Unreal Engine nowdays. burning out a guy who lives and breathes software engineering, who's many, MANY accolades throughout life only push him to achieve more is an impressive feat, and at this point, Zuckerberg deserves whatever is coming for him specifically.
@@maggie6152 Chill, it wasn't a bomb. He just used it to melt a window so they could enter. Nobody was hurt. They only got caught because "an accomplice struggled to get through the hole and instead opened the window. Setting off the silent alarm."
Have you tried just contacting him or the company directly? Worst case scenario, they ignore you. Best case, they ask what street-curb you want to pick it up at.
sure!, but to me up until 2021 it was semi ok, they just really really blew it after with the whole changing of the name of Oculus to meta and the whole metaverse thing... like Quest 1 was terrific! I guess Mark started stepping his foot way too much as well as old ppl from Oculus started to leave, I never liked the meta thing but I didn't imagine it was going to be its demise
Decades early too lol. It was doomed to fail. The average citizen couldn't afford their VR headsets let alone the technology that it could be carried every where like a phone on your pocket
Isn't John Carmack not just a "video game designer", but basically a genius engineer? I thought he was a big part of what made Doom and its engine run so well. Essentially a living master of efficiency. Or at least an expert in the field. Which is why he would be so highly regarded in bringing his vision to new VR tech.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't John Carmack responsible for what became the standard in rendering and lighting technology in video games in general after the release of DOOM? Like up until now with Raytracing tech?
@@altanic5855 Carmack has laid the groundwork and the foundations for very many things in video games and other fields of software engineering as a whole. And he managed to do that in ways that are both very efficient, and (relatively) very readable. Would take a while to list all the things he's done, but yeah, he's quite a big deal
He’s ne of the best software engineers in the business. Only so-so at game design, but arguably the best there is at building the infrastructure of games. Master of both efficiency and elegance. That makes it even worse for Meta to lose him because the foundations of their project are garbage, and he’s the only one they had who knew how to fix them.
Non-tech people never like to hear "that can't be done, its impossible technically" I know this as a person who works as a software engineer, it's exhausting trying to explain things to people without saying "no we can't" so they don just shut down
Its difficult for Suits, because a lot of "its not possible" just means "I am not skilled enough to do that", but when you have someone of Carmack's caliber telling you its not possible, you better believe that what you're asking is verging on breaking the laws of physics as we know them.
@@happyspaceinvader508 better answer would simply be: give me 10 years, unlimited budget and top 10 devs and analysts of the world and we might make it happen. See how fast they run lol
John Carmack, if you're seeing this... Thank you for everything, your words your hard work and your FIRE resignation (the Corpos don't deserve ya choom.) Good luck out there and gods speed
The thing that gave me some sort of hope for Oculus was in fact Carmack, he is just so good at programing that the project had more or less someone who could carry the project over. Now that he is gone and what he said about META... Well, they are screwed, Stadia levels of screwed
now that i think about it, how did facebook fuck it up *this much* with so many examples to follow? both old and new? is it because they wanted to sell the idea that they're the *FirSt* metaverse? both roblox and second life came out during the early-mid 2000s, then you got vrchat in the mid-late 2010s, you had so many blueprints, why not just bite the bullet, admit you're not the first and follow those? how does someone manage to fuck it up this badly?
Even a moron like me (who's never personally played any of the great examples you mentioned) could tell 'The Zuck' that a "Metaverse" concept will never work as long as it exists a completely clean and shiny corporate hellscape. The reason those games work is because they don't include Walmart constantly fingering your a-hole to make purchases as a *FEATURE.*
I going to say this again and again, you can't technically beat vr chat. It allows any models to be avatars and its "worlds" are more or less just unity a engine that has had tons of money but more importantly experience put into it with thousands who know how to use it. It seems difficult to me to improve on it sure it lacks user friendly features but those will come in time, there's already character creators for vr chat and plenty of unity tutorials.
@@propoppop9866 Plus, for any of its faults, VRchat also has another, very important thing going for it over the Metaverse: It doesn't exist as a corporate dystopian nightmare.
My best friend got me a Quest 2 earlier this month for Christmas. He didn't get it for the Meta part, he got it because it was affordable. Likewise, I have had fun with the set, it has faults but it's good entry-level set, especially for those without a good computer - but I literally could not care any less about any Meta related features, I just want to play games.
@@arandompasserby7940 Last year, before the price rises, we literally had grandparents buying multiple units for their grandkids (5 IIRC). I bought a Rift S for myself years prior because it was the cheapest way at the time to play HL:A.
Holy ***! He was like the only sane person left at Meta with any reason. He always spoke nicely about everything at Meta, even when listener knew the truth... and during meetings it was really a pleasure to listen to him as he made everything so much more interesting. Meta just lost last person that could do something good for them to save that sinking ship. Well... what can i say... all the best to him
I've been an Engineer in the industry for about seven years now. What Carmack is saying is pretty much par for the course for the field. "Team Leads" almost never know what in the fresh hell they're talking about, haha. You just nod your head and tell them you'll try to alter the laws of the universe for their pet projects.
The world started going downhill when businesses started being run by people who went to business school instead of by people who actually understand the products the businesses deliver.
Work in a Company with a boss with the same mindset, and we have to try and agree despite him telling us to create a button to reverse Gravity when he needs it
He’s not just a legendary developer, he wrote codes that optimized quake that saves a lot of cpu power. It’s like he wrote e=mc^2 equivalent for codes.
credit where credit is due: carmack is an actual genius, a word that's thrown around wayyy too easily, but he had to get help to get quake to run like that, or, run at all on a system at the time. he brought in michael abrash, assembly and optimization specialist. also a genius. he worked for valve from somewhere around 2010, after gaben had been nagging him all the time forever, and he was brought on to the oculus team as chief scientist first thing after facebook purchased them. the doom 16 engine was made by two other people at id
Good visuals is good, yes, but you can't polish a turd. I think this is a less crass way of saying his earlier "story in videogames is like story in porn" quote, "its expected to be there, but its not what's important". And its true, else you end up with walking simulators that have incredible stories, but leave you thinking "if I had that little influence over the outcome of the story, why not just make it a movie?" Likewise here, if you have great graphics but no technical prowess to back it up, you'll end up with something that has no compelling usecase to man nor beast. The best Facebook/Meta can hope for now is something like the current Zelda game with out the story, yes the graphics are mildly interesting, yes, the technology is there, but its not really demonstrating that you're pushing the envelope, you've just gone with the safest possible option for the shareholders.
If your product looks pretty but doesn't work, it's not a product. It's a dead idea that won't ever get off the ground. If it was physical instead of VR, at least it could be used as a paperweight. But Meta isn't even a physical product, so it's worth even less than a paperweight. A fitting end for Zuckerberg's stupid pet project.
@@dafoex "but you can't polish a turd." For one, you can, although along the way you might be wondering why you're polishing a turd and if this is a good use of your time. If the survival of your company depends on it, then you sure as shit better try, that has been the montra of cdpr for the last two years.
To anger the resident of the binding between worlds John Carmack is a very poor choice. Hell to this day only John Romero manage to survive that, key word being *survive*.
I'm starting to think of these various "metaverse" ideas as Skyscraper Logic. From the outside, a huge building, hundreds of feet tall that can cater to several kinds of businesses and companies sounds like a great idea. You can have companies that rely on other companies all in the same building, and they can collaborate and do things all in your environment....but if you don't know what your tenants will want, if you don't know how to run the cabling and the piping to make them all happy, you've got a very expensive, very very tall, empty box.
Us gamers have been seeing how pathetic and hollow these metaverse projects been despite their glitter coated goals in "new ways of communications and interactions". Minecraft and pokemon have been doing a way better job at these goals for decades
@@AirKangLocker I think the inherent problem, is the outlook. For all that these metaverses want to claim they're revolutionizing things, we still have the same basic windows GUI: icons for this and that, everything hung right in front of us, very little in the way of anything actually unique. You're right about Minecraft...maybe less so about pokemon :-) But Minecraft has had functioning cars, musical instruments, even a computer WITHIN a computer built using a game engine. It's not smooth and seamless, but it's functional and clear cut. You can look at the combustion engine of the minecraft car, and say "Yep, that's how an engine works" I think the real next step, is gonna be when someone brings a new UI perspective to computing, that ISN'T Windows Next. That UI, will be able to take full advantage of a 3D perspective, instead of shoe-horning Windows GUI features into a forward looking window in a 3D space. But that's the problem: I can't honestly say what that interface will look like. But go back in time to the early 90s, and no one could have said computers would have mice and GUI's and tabbed windows. Most of us were still running code by line execution.
@@Khasym for your last dilemma, I'm just gonna give a wild guess that it's interactive hologram or something similar to that. A 3D interactive workspace where the entire floating light projection around you can actually be functional and interactive irl. There's been a few tiny example of this where there are holo keyboards that can be used on a workdesk, but the projection is only 2D on a desk surface so far. What I'm imagining is an actual 3D holo workspace, unlike what's shown in Metaverse, but more similar to how we watched Tony Stark design his stuff in the movies.
@@MollyHJohns That's the problem Molly; that's been done...and it really doesn't work any better than a standard Windows GUI. Functionally, it's still the same kind of code: you have a fixed position in space, that displays your information. It can move, but there's no real reason to move it. It doesn't do anything if you change the size or position, other than to change the size and position. To be clear, it's going to be a paradigm shift on par with going from line-excution code, to a GUI in the first place. I'm in my mid-to late 40s. I remember running a Line code on an ADAM computer(yes, THAT ADAM :-) ) in the equivalent of a CMD window, to load Buck Rogers. :-) In the early nineties. I was taking COBOL and FORTRAN in college, when I started seeing Windows 3.1 :-) To say that within five years, almost every program was GUI compliant and capable is an understatement :-) But that's the level of change in computer thought that needs to happen to get the Metaverse beyond high-minded ideas. Everything we've done with computing, has been borne out of the Windows GUI and Linux architecture....that's gotta happen again to get Meta out of being metaphysical. :-)
@Khasym There are a few papers that talk about what you're hinting at in more detail, usually going by name that include "post-WIMP user interfaces", meaning minimising our reliance on Windows Icons Menus and Pointers, and another which I remember being good called "The Anti-Mac" which was mostly theory, but it took much of the ideas present in the Macintosh's human interface guidelines and intentionally did the opposite to see what might happen. I don't think we'll get there 100%, since we will always need to input data somehow, and on top of that there would be hefty privacy concerns, but the technological endpoint is described as the "non-command interface" where the computer accurately predicts your wishes and carries out actions to your benefit without you needing to command the machine. A lot of the attempts have failed, sadly, either due to poor design decisions, lack of adoption, or both. Windows 8's Metro UI was an example, trying to make the thing you're working on the centre of attention and hiding away tools until you ask for them, but we all know how that went. The most promising implementation I think we have is the GNOME Shell for GNU Linux systems, which is still based in the WIMP paradigm, but rethinks a lot of the ideas we're used to. I still think there's some poor design choices with GNOME that make it needlessly difficult for people used to more traditional user interfaces, but there are also things I really love about it, too.
Carmack is a legend for reasons. I know him more for Doom and Quake as they're games I still play, but he's been a huge part of VR too, so him leaving Meta is huge. Glad to see it.
Carmack: Hmm, this current programming difficulty is a nuisance. Oh, I know! I'll just create a new way to program that catapults the whole science a few years! There, it's done. I need a Diet Coke.....😈
When you lose Carmack, you know you fucked up Edit: I love that Yong compares this to the Kojima and MG Survive thing, because Meta's already making MG Survive with Carmack, imagine the shit they'll be making without his help
He touched on one thing that I have had an issue with the meta verse which is this vision they seemed to have where the meta verse is almost a replacement for human face-to-face interactions. We don't want to replace all of our work meetings with vr, we don't want to replace concerts and live events with vr, we don't want to replace hanging out with friends with vr, we don't want to spend all of our time only seeing each other as these bland avatars. People aren't sticking around after they've tried the meta verse because there is not really any entertainment value and it feels like the creators intend for the users to provide the value and purpose to the meta verse rather than provide value and purpose up front
Oddly enough, the best part about VR for me is I don't dissociate on it like other devices. I can only stay in it for an hour or two maximum for the day. I couldn't imagine having to be glued to it for everyday things and interactions. VR helps me unfreeze and gives me needed exercise and energy. Playing VR Table Tennis, Beat Saber, or Walkabout Mini Golf for half an hour is enough.
I’ve got VR and it’s the biggest mistake purchase I ever made in gaming. I play DCS and sim racing and what’s sold vs reality is very different. MOST people don’t like VR. They use triple screens and head trackers. Even if the hardware was light and simple, we don’t want to be in this all inclusive world completely separated from reality. There are a lot of people in the communities with VR who choose not to use it for many reasons. It’s not nearly as cool and fun as it’s marketed. The biggest red flag is that no one will let you try headsets before you buy them. Imagine spending $800 on a phone or TV and you were never allowed to test it first. That’s the only reason VR sells.
I remember the part in the most famous livestream video (sorry I forgot the UA-camr' name) where they had to pay just to clap for his stand up performance... Their stock plummeted during that livestream lol.
Check out Rec Room. It has been around forevever. It has a 9/10 rating and was made for a low budget. It eats Meta's breakfast lunch dinner and sleeps with it's wife.
When I had a VR headset a few years back there was one clear issue with it: the company. The restrictive annoying Facebook infrastructure basically killed the entire experience for me, I ended up parting with it. Just make it an open platform, you would have your "metaverse" built for you by the community in days!
What's happening with Metaverse reminds me of the sad fate of Darth Plagueis the Kind. Man who owns half the world through legitimate means seeks the other half through illegitimate means and this loses him all of it.
I wonder if Carmack could go to work with Valve with their VR projects, Valve could be a comfortable fit for Carmack to tinker and work on whatever vr project he wants over there
@@squadbroken962 Totally agree. Valves steamvr system is flat out the best for pc gaming. Wireless is nice, but nothing beats the tracking capabilities of valves lighthouse tracking. I have no interest in inside out tracking.
Now Carmack can go to Valve and make the VR of our dreams. They have money, and they have the internal structure to allow him to do what he wants for the most part.
plus the team at Valve, including leadership, actually understands tech/programming and its limitations, so whatever John says would actually be worth a damn lol
it always amused me that games like vrchat and second life have already achieved what meta is trying to do and they didnt have trillion dollar company pumping them up
I've felt that he would always be the last straw of oculus and now meta. As long as he was there it felt like they could still maybe somehow actually do something cool. But now that he's gone, it will properly collapse in no time I feel.
One thing that really sucks about Meta is that someone I went to college with basically restructured their whole art business around being an artist for the metaverse. She wanted to get in “on the ground floor” and offer NFTs and digital goods etc for people to buy and trade. And she had gone through some hard times and desperately needed a payday so I get the impulse on some level, but I warned her it was not a good idea. Here we are a little over a year later and it’s all collapsed before it even got started…
@@Sylocat It also uses a spyware anti-cheat, which is why I'm thinking "God, it probably won't matter all that much, but hopefully they DON'T learn anything from VRChat."
Honestly they could probably learn more from Second Life, which is still thriving. Its lost a fair few users to VRChat, mainly furries who have money to burn on pretending to be their fursona in cyberspace, but an actual scripting language that can access external data because it was born from the Web 2.0 era were everything was connected is still compelling to many a creative mind.
There's something wrong with Meta for business too. I'm helping a client run ads for facebook and we set it up for a week and the ad still running and There's no way to pause it or contact them.
I always knew that Meta couldn't contain the benevolent hyper intelligent architect of the post singularity simulation we all live in known as John Carmack
This is an all familair problem. It's rare to find executives that have actually ever touched a line of code or know what is actually involved. The always say I understand it from a "high-level"... that is code for I don't know anything. Meta is a prime example of this.
This reminds me when we first heard of Quake. It was described as a realistic experience where you are on the walls of a castle, you look up at its tower and it's so realistic that you get vertigo and fall down. I read this as a kid, so it's not 1:1 accurate probably, but the point is that even back then when they created first person games like Doom and Quake, they were trying to create an immersive experience. Today we remember Doom and Quake as fast paced action games, but back in the day they were the most realistic, most immversive experiences, similar to what Meta is trying to be. So, for Carmack this is a straight line of succession, because at the low level where he works, it doesn't really matter if this technology will be used for a shooter or a crypto storefront. He knows exactly what the next step should be to create the technology needed for the next iteration of this type of application.
The problem is that this is not how things work at all, no well made and well thought out product ever requires a company to just splurge money all over it in hopes of the thing coming together Carmack clearly understands this as his main goals and his key complaints are specifically about this
As a design engineer, I really do understand the frustration and difficulty of trying to explain to your boss that "well boss, that's not feasible to do with our current technology" when all your boss thinking is about flashy and grandiose presentation stuff that looks cool in concept, but unfeasible, impractical and inefficient in practice, stuff that's behind the stage that ground level employee knows about
Carmack was one of the pioneers or even THE pioneer of dynamic light and shadows in a completely 3D enviromnent with the creation of the engine that ran Quake. Something like Meta must be hightly frustrating to him, if not even vexxing.
This is no surprise; Carmack and id software are both associated with fantastic performance regarding their products. We can say a lot about Doom 3, but the game looked gorgeous at the time (assuming you could actually see the damn game) and ran fantastic even on mid-range hardware. Hell, even post-Carmack, id software made sure to still release really solid products that are anything but inefficient.
There'll probably be a future when all you need to do is lie down on your bed as you wear the headgear or glasses, or sleep for days in a self-sustainable pod as you 'live online'. That's probably what Metaverse is aiming at.
There's a reason like Romero we haven't seen Carmack have a hit and he has been living off past success. They both needed each other and keep each other in check.
You know, the problem isn't high visual fidelity on the avatars. It's not the quality that's the problem. Video games chased visual fidelity for years. And it peaked with a bunch of taupe on brown games that were visually boring. The problem is that the meta avatars aren't interesting. They don't have style; they aren't expressive. They somehow managed to make the zuck look like even more of a robot than he comes across as in real life. He is a terrible choice for a flagship avatar. Nobody wants to be represented in the virtual world by an avatar as boring as they are in real life.
This is the classic high level hand-waving of the inept clueless residing atop the white ivory tower. My only question to Carmack: what took you so long??
I got an email the other day from Meta. It said something like "it's time to make your account compatible with meta quest." I don't have Facebook. Haven't for years. Lol
3:20 the same feeling you get when you realize that a lot of these big time grocerie stores throw away food after the day is over, rather than donate it to the homeless. Or when a cop gives a homeless person a sandwiche with dog poop in it. It really is all just plum out sad 😔
How's this a tragedy? Garbage like Metaverse simply cannot be allowed to succeed. Thankfully it wasn't getting anywhere and without Carmack it has no chance. It's not like Zuckerberg owns VR. Nothing's stopping Carmack from continuing his passion for it elsewhere.
I take issue with the idea that it's the 'old guard' leaving that's the core of the problem we're facing. It's really, really not. It's the people chasing profits over all else who have more and more power to dictate terms for the games - and none of the 'old guard' could have ever stopped this because they're not in executive positions at massive corporations. This is something we've done and continue to do to ourselves; you can't have a system that prioritizes making money over all else coexisting with a system that has a different core ethos - like, say, creating the best game you can. It was never the devs, it was always the executives.
My only hope with this metaverse BS were the hardware advancements that were taking place with Oculus because of all the R&D that was being funded for Zuck’s wet dream. But now that Carmack is gone, I feel like that foundation is going to crumble too. Even if they keep pouring money into R&D, Carmack’s influence on everything is no joke, even if he says that he just consulted people.
IMO Carmack sell a part of his soul when he joined facebook on this... Everyone seem to have forgotten that Facebook buying Oculus thank to Carmack almost doomed VR. So, even if I respect the god he is in code, he got it coming.
John Carmack still has a programming soul. That bit about how important bolt details are shows that he sees the technical limitations and how those limitations affect the final product. Software isn't going to magical appear just because an executive wants it. Also it's curious how Zuckerberg went all in and limited the metaverse to vr googles, when there are still billions of smart devices in the world.
I'm not a tech guy, but I still had doubts that "ready player one" was actually doable. And, admittedly, I hoped it wasn't. Unlike the Zuck, I actually understood that world is something to be avoided, not to aspire to.
That's all right, the designer and programmer of our post-singularity Matrix simulation John Carmack will find a new project that befits his greatness.
Worth noting that the ability to dream big is super important to project planning, but it's then followed no later than the next meeting by nuts and bolts questions.
Its amazing how much money was spent on that when places like VRChat are doing the same thing with far more success. All that money wasted which could've instead been used to fund potential like VRChat
you know shits bad when hyper intelligent space luddite and master of the binding inbetween space of our post singularity simulation decides enough is enough
When you manage to make a VR enthusiast and pioneer like John Carmack run out of patience, you know you're screwing up.
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TOP PATRONS
[CIPHER]
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YYYYEP
TEQUEÑO NAVIDEñO YONG
I was waiting for this headline.
I don't think even the UAC could screw up as badly as meta at this point...
Carmack is one of the elder visionaries of the internet and technology. All zuckerberg did was rip off myspace.
Didn't Zuckerberg copy other social media features after he stole Facebook?
@@thespectraldogg1277 after a certain point i think he was just buying the competition lol
The problem is social media culture and companies using community managers and marketers to make project choices. Even shareholders think younger people being on the edge of what's trending understand better, but they ALWAYS seem to think the old grand masters (possibly due to not fitting their movie/tv fantasy characteristics) are ABSOLUTELY out of touch when in fact it's far more nuanced. Yes there are old goats who dont understand but we disregard even taking the time to objectively observe their insights to find out!
Zuck can’t even follow is own path to success. He didn’t start with the FB we know today. It was simple and targeted to college students. Trying to market and cater the metaverse to all of the demographics right for the start is such a mistake.
It was a bad rip off of myspace, FB just beat MS to the punch app wise but they're just behind every other platform right now
I don’t think people understand how fortunate we are that Meta’s plans have failed to this degree. What Zuckerberg wanted was truly dystopian. He wanted Meta to get to this nebulous “Web 3.0” metaverse concept before all others in order to monopolize it.
And what would they do once they monopolized it? Monetize to hell and back. We all know how contentious Apple’s 30% cut is. Now consider that Meta wanted to take fucking 50% of all purchases made in its Metaverse. Now realize the horrific fact that they were pushing this onto enterprise as well, wanting remote workers to spend all their working hours inside this metaverse, where Meta takes half of any purchase they might make.
We have seriously dodged a bullet, for now. But I won’t be at ease until Meta is in the dirt, or at least so cut down that they can no longer pursue these ambitions. But just because they were the first to try it doesn’t mean they are the last. Whether or not this Web 3.0 actually happens, we can’t let any one or two companies monopolize it like Apple and Google monopolized mobile platforms.
Meta...put these foolish ambitions to rest.
...sorry couldn't help it.
RTGame made a video on it and apparently you have to use your actual money to CLAP at a comedy show that another user does. The one on-stage gets none of the money btw :) Also there's a spiderman game. You jump off a building in vr. Like dude, heights in vr are bad
@@HazeEmry how are heights in vr bad?
@@Slash0mega when you've gotten used to VR, (walking around, interacting with things, looking up, down and everywhere) you'd more than likely be tricked by your brain to think you're actually there experiencing those things. So if you're at the edge of a sheer cliffside looking out at sea and the waves crashing over rocks below you in VR and you feel someone pushes you irl, your brain panics and thinks you're falling to your death.
In the Spiderman game, you swing like spiderman in first person, which is all fine and good. No wind in your hair unless you have a fan but that's fine. Then you miss a web shot and fall down. Your brain panics raising your heart rate, making you flail around potentially hurting yourself and/or people around you. If you're calm and can properly understand it's actually in VR it's ok though. All from what I can gather anyway
@@maggie6152 FOUL TARNISHED! IN SEARCH OF THE ELDEN RING. EMBOLDENED BY THE FLAME OF AMBITION…
Dear god, the all knowing eldritch cyber god John Carmack has finally broken free of Zuckerborgs containment cell, we are all doomed
WARNING
CODE SLAYER HAS LEFT THE BUILDING
@@Hrungni Actually it's beyond code slayer.
**WARNING! CARMACK HAS BREACHED CONTAINMENT! I REPEAT! CARMACK HAS BREACHED CONTAINMENT! GOD HAVE MERCY!**
Civvie11 escaped the dungeon?
It's always a delight to find a RoachDogg jr. in the wild.
"John Carmack is synonymous with 2 things, Id software and virtual reality"
so we're just gonna ignore that he basically invented modern 3D games, invented modern esports and broke into his schools computer lab with thermite to steal their PC's like heisenberg from breaking bad lmao. dude is probably the most important person in video game history still alive.
Not to mention without him dedicated graphics cards would've been pushed further back. It was Quake and Quake 2 that brought it popular.
The guy needs his own movie tbh
And the fact he pretty much invented e-sports, and even gave out a freaking Ferrari as a prize for the first big Quake tournament ever.
People don’t realize what a legend Carmack was before and during the Id Software days. And yes a movie about Is Software and the falling out between him John Romeo, and American McGee would be awesome.
He had a rocket company for a bit
John Carmack is a hero for the consumer and gaming would never be the same without his work so if he quits something, you know it’s for a good reason.
Doom is ETERNAL!
Your opinion doesn't count, you are full of bias.
The dude is such an advocate for open source and community driven tech that I always sort of knew this was never gonna work out.
He basically is to the FPS what Leo Fender was to the electric guitar: he may not have invented it, but he made it into the form that took the world by storm.
Absolutely. It was more surprising he stayed on the team for so long
Carmack is the kind of guy where, if he tells you something won't work or gives you advice, you better damn well listen to him.
When he hands out advice, you fetch a desk, open your notebook, and write everything down. _Verbatim._ You can discuss it later after further analysis, but you damn better keep those notes.
Maybe don't? He's talented but he's also the same dumbass who thinks games should never have fleshed out stories. And the same malicious prick who killed a cat instead of simply putting it up for adoption. He's not a constant fountain of good advice, and people need to cease worshipping the ground he walks on like he's so infallible.
100% this. What were they thinking? I can't even fathom ignoring this man's advice.
Thank god. Carmack is *way* too talented to be stuck working for Zucker-bot. Wishing him all the best for the future.
yeah im sure whatever startup he is talking about is gonna achieve a lot more worthwhile than meta will
Yeah, stick a schmuck like John Romeo in the role instead
@@elevown True to be told
@@elevown At the very least it won't be built on stolen code like Facebook was.
Oh you watch Yong same as spawnwave
Carmack isn't so much a game designer, he's the guy the game designer relies on to make his ideas actually work. He's a code wizard
“What do you think of Carmack leaving the company”
Company? What company?
They lost their nerd. It’s over. You can get the pick of the litter for executives, you can hire all the contractors in the world, you can throw a king’s ransom of money into product development and more, but the moment you lose your nerd who actually knows how shit works and how to make it good, it’s curtains. That’s the death knell of any tech company.
100 percent agree just look at ms as an example ;}
Alfred Hitchcock said that three things need to be great in order to have a good movie: the script, the script, and the script. Likewise you need three things to be good if you want a successful tech launch: the scripting, the scripting, and the scripting. If the code is shit your project is shot. All the aesthetics in the world mean nothing if the product doesn't work. You need nerds, the more of them and the nerdier they are the better. One Steve Wozniak type is worth more than 500 Steve Jobs types.
@@tjenadonn6158 Couldn’t have said it better.
One can envision a bridge or a skyscraper, but without the person to tell you how it can actually be built and willing to account for every steel beam and rivet it takes to construct it, it's just a vision. I know all the 'empowering' memes imply otherwise, but vision alone is not enough.
@@DamnedSilly quotable material
John Carmack is a Steven Hawking-Tier mind of our generation. After his failed attempt to steal an apple 2 as a high schooler with the aid of a thermite bomb, the guy went on to engineer the infastructure that... most games that use polygonal graphics can trace their lineage back to. GoldSrc and the Source Engine are built off of the IdTech 2 engine Carmack personally made. Unreal was made as Epic Megagames' ANSWER to the incredible groundwork Carmack laid for the business, and look just how many games are powered by Unreal Engine nowdays.
burning out a guy who lives and breathes software engineering, who's many, MANY accolades throughout life only push him to achieve more is an impressive feat, and at this point, Zuckerberg deserves whatever is coming for him specifically.
John Carmack is in the same genius cathegory as Terry A. Davis, Richard Stallman and Jeff Minter.
...probably shouldn't be praising a guy for almost bombing a school to steal stuff...
The other achievements are good, though.
@@maggie6152 Chill, it wasn't a bomb. He just used it to melt a window so they could enter. Nobody was hurt. They only got caught because "an accomplice struggled to get through the hole and instead opened the window. Setting off the silent alarm."
@@maggie6152 You have to go back... back to reddit.
@@maggie6152 Eh, all the good stories involve some activity that's questionably legal. Well behaved people don't make history.
If Mark is intentionally trying to lose money, I'll be happy to take some
Form a VR start-up to sell to Zucc
Have you tried just contacting him or the company directly? Worst case scenario, they ignore you. Best case, they ask what street-curb you want to pick it up at.
Shoulda gotten laid off with us 😂
Me too. I would really love me some RTX 4090s, lol. 🤣
losing money is nearly impossible for facebook at this point.
"I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage" seems like the slogan for the past ten years.
yes i hate my children
@@vain.a That is a terrible thing to say and you have failed as a parent.
Maybe shouldn't have added the Spawns in the last chapter, then, John.
sure!, but to me up until 2021 it was semi ok, they just really really blew it after with the whole changing of the name of Oculus to meta and the whole metaverse thing... like Quest 1 was terrific! I guess Mark started stepping his foot way too much as well as old ppl from Oculus started to leave, I never liked the meta thing but I didn't imagine it was going to be its demise
@@Darksky1001able maybe he's not a parent and just said it because it was funny?
Imagine trying to build the Metaverse when you can't even reach VR Chat level
That is an L only Zuckerberk could uniquely acquire.
100%
Shows how Passion is the big differentiator here
Decades early too lol. It was doomed to fail. The average citizen couldn't afford their VR headsets let alone the technology that it could be carried every where like a phone on your pocket
I wonder how much VR chat cost in development too lol
Isn't John Carmack not just a "video game designer", but basically a genius engineer? I thought he was a big part of what made Doom and its engine run so well. Essentially a living master of efficiency. Or at least an expert in the field. Which is why he would be so highly regarded in bringing his vision to new VR tech.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't John Carmack responsible for what became the standard in rendering and lighting technology in video games in general after the release of DOOM? Like up until now with Raytracing tech?
@@altanic5855 Carmack has laid the groundwork and the foundations for very many things in video games and other fields of software engineering as a whole. And he managed to do that in ways that are both very efficient, and (relatively) very readable.
Would take a while to list all the things he's done, but yeah, he's quite a big deal
@@altanic5855 Well, he and Tim Sweeney.
He’s ne of the best software engineers in the business. Only so-so at game design, but arguably the best there is at building the infrastructure of games. Master of both efficiency and elegance. That makes it even worse for Meta to lose him because the foundations of their project are garbage, and he’s the only one they had who knew how to fix them.
In game programming, if Carmack makes a talk, you listen, since it will definitely be fascinating. He really knows his stuff.
Non-tech people never like to hear "that can't be done, its impossible technically"
I know this as a person who works as a software engineer, it's exhausting trying to explain things to people without saying "no we can't" so they don just shut down
The clients want magic in this scientific world.
Its difficult for Suits, because a lot of "its not possible" just means "I am not skilled enough to do that", but when you have someone of Carmack's caliber telling you its not possible, you better believe that what you're asking is verging on breaking the laws of physics as we know them.
Oh yes… the number of times I’ve heard: “I’m going to need a better answer” when I’ve said “no” to suits.
@@happyspaceinvader508 better answer would simply be: give me 10 years, unlimited budget and top 10 devs and analysts of the world and we might make it happen. See how fast they run lol
Anythings possible, but the more you ask for the more time and money it'll take.
Seeing Carmack, a software development legend, give a hard reality check to these overambitious companies is really satisfying.
John Carmack, if you're seeing this... Thank you for everything, your words your hard work and your FIRE resignation (the Corpos don't deserve ya choom.) Good luck out there and gods speed
Carmack is a hero of the people and a pioneer for open source. He was the only reason I thought the metaverse had any chance of success.
There's still Decentraland and OpenSim. I know they aren't the same, but they're close and they actually work.
The thing that gave me some sort of hope for Oculus was in fact Carmack, he is just so good at programing that the project had more or less someone who could carry the project over. Now that he is gone and what he said about META... Well, they are screwed, Stadia levels of screwed
Is there an equivalent to the Google Graveyard? The Facebook Funeral Home?
@@tjenadonn6158 the Meta Mass Grave
@@burneraccount7831 The ZuckerBurial.
@@tjenadonn6158the Meta Morgue
The Meta Mausoleum
Metaverse wanted to become a pioneer while not learning from earlier, _actual_ pioneers such as Second Life, OpenSim, and VRChat. Even Roblox.
Even Decentraland has more active users, last I checked
now that i think about it, how did facebook fuck it up *this much* with so many examples to follow? both old and new?
is it because they wanted to sell the idea that they're the *FirSt* metaverse? both roblox and second life came out during the early-mid 2000s, then you got vrchat in the mid-late 2010s, you had so many blueprints, why not just bite the bullet, admit you're not the first and follow those? how does someone manage to fuck it up this badly?
Even a moron like me (who's never personally played any of the great examples you mentioned) could tell 'The Zuck' that a "Metaverse" concept will never work as long as it exists a completely clean and shiny corporate hellscape.
The reason those games work is because they don't include Walmart constantly fingering your a-hole to make purchases as a *FEATURE.*
I going to say this again and again, you can't technically beat vr chat. It allows any models to be avatars and its "worlds" are more or less just unity a engine that has had tons of money but more importantly experience put into it with thousands who know how to use it. It seems difficult to me to improve on it sure it lacks user friendly features but those will come in time, there's already character creators for vr chat and plenty of unity tutorials.
@@propoppop9866 Plus, for any of its faults, VRchat also has another, very important thing going for it over the Metaverse: It doesn't exist as a corporate dystopian nightmare.
I work at a retailer selling Quest 2 headsets and it honestly feels like we’ve benefited more from their Metaverse push than Meta themselves.
I agree.
In a gold rush, sell shovels.
My best friend got me a Quest 2 earlier this month for Christmas. He didn't get it for the Meta part, he got it because it was affordable. Likewise, I have had fun with the set, it has faults but it's good entry-level set, especially for those without a good computer - but I literally could not care any less about any Meta related features, I just want to play games.
@@arandompasserby7940 Last year, before the price rises, we literally had grandparents buying multiple units for their grandkids (5 IIRC).
I bought a Rift S for myself years prior because it was the cheapest way at the time to play HL:A.
Holy ***! He was like the only sane person left at Meta with any reason.
He always spoke nicely about everything at Meta, even when listener knew the truth... and during meetings it was really a pleasure to listen to him as he made everything so much more interesting.
Meta just lost last person that could do something good for them to save that sinking ship.
Well... what can i say... all the best to him
I've been an Engineer in the industry for about seven years now. What Carmack is saying is pretty much par for the course for the field.
"Team Leads" almost never know what in the fresh hell they're talking about, haha.
You just nod your head and tell them you'll try to alter the laws of the universe for their pet projects.
The world started going downhill when businesses started being run by people who went to business school instead of by people who actually understand the products the businesses deliver.
That's a bitter personal experience I could read between the lines right there
Work in a Company with a boss with the same mindset, and we have to try and agree despite him telling us to create a button to reverse Gravity when he needs it
@@tjenadonn6158 It’s an odd trend in general. We have fields for the containers rather than the contents of those containers.
Artists: First Time?
He’s not just a legendary developer, he wrote codes that optimized quake that saves a lot of cpu power. It’s like he wrote e=mc^2 equivalent for codes.
There's a reason DOOM runs on almost anything. It's just that well optimized.
He also found ways to have smooth scrolling in PC games at a time when PCs didn't really allow for it. That game was Commander Keen.
credit where credit is due:
carmack is an actual genius, a word that's thrown around wayyy too easily, but he had to get help to get quake to run like that, or, run at all on a system at the time. he brought in michael abrash, assembly and optimization specialist. also a genius. he worked for valve from somewhere around 2010, after gaben had been nagging him all the time forever, and he was brought on to the oculus team as chief scientist first thing after facebook purchased them.
the doom 16 engine was made by two other people at id
HELL YEAH JOHN CARMACK
Great to see the hyper-omniscient 7th-dimensional overlord constructor of Carmack's Reverse ditching Meta! :D
Ah, a fellow CV11 government produced content consumer. Hello.
It can't be that bad....
*Looks at Meta's office*
_Sewer Count:_ 6942
That was in the low hundreds before
"Functionality matters over visuals"
I will follow this man to the ends of the Earth...
Good visuals is good, yes, but you can't polish a turd. I think this is a less crass way of saying his earlier "story in videogames is like story in porn" quote, "its expected to be there, but its not what's important". And its true, else you end up with walking simulators that have incredible stories, but leave you thinking "if I had that little influence over the outcome of the story, why not just make it a movie?" Likewise here, if you have great graphics but no technical prowess to back it up, you'll end up with something that has no compelling usecase to man nor beast.
The best Facebook/Meta can hope for now is something like the current Zelda game with out the story, yes the graphics are mildly interesting, yes, the technology is there, but its not really demonstrating that you're pushing the envelope, you've just gone with the safest possible option for the shareholders.
If your product looks pretty but doesn't work, it's not a product. It's a dead idea that won't ever get off the ground. If it was physical instead of VR, at least it could be used as a paperweight. But Meta isn't even a physical product, so it's worth even less than a paperweight. A fitting end for Zuckerberg's stupid pet project.
Its a fundamental rule in engineering. It's way easier to add aesthetics later than to fix a broken foundation.
@@dafoex "but you can't polish a turd."
For one, you can, although along the way you might be wondering why you're polishing a turd and if this is a good use of your time. If the survival of your company depends on it, then you sure as shit better try, that has been the montra of cdpr for the last two years.
I've seen enough Civvie 11 to know the last thing you want is having John Carmack as an enemy.
That's John 'The Pandimentional Omnipotence Who Guides And Protects Humanity' Carmack
Dude used thermite to break into a school to steal a computer, Zuckerberg made a powerful enemy.
To anger the resident of the binding between worlds John Carmack is a very poor choice. Hell to this day only John Romero manage to survive that, key word being *survive*.
Sentient galaxy brain meme John Carmack
Civvie 11, the sewer level connoisseur
I'm starting to think of these various "metaverse" ideas as Skyscraper Logic. From the outside, a huge building, hundreds of feet tall that can cater to several kinds of businesses and companies sounds like a great idea. You can have companies that rely on other companies all in the same building, and they can collaborate and do things all in your environment....but if you don't know what your tenants will want, if you don't know how to run the cabling and the piping to make them all happy, you've got a very expensive, very very tall, empty box.
Us gamers have been seeing how pathetic and hollow these metaverse projects been despite their glitter coated goals in "new ways of communications and interactions". Minecraft and pokemon have been doing a way better job at these goals for decades
@@AirKangLocker I think the inherent problem, is the outlook. For all that these metaverses want to claim they're revolutionizing things, we still have the same basic windows GUI: icons for this and that, everything hung right in front of us, very little in the way of anything actually unique.
You're right about Minecraft...maybe less so about pokemon :-) But Minecraft has had functioning cars, musical instruments, even a computer WITHIN a computer built using a game engine. It's not smooth and seamless, but it's functional and clear cut. You can look at the combustion engine of the minecraft car, and say "Yep, that's how an engine works"
I think the real next step, is gonna be when someone brings a new UI perspective to computing, that ISN'T Windows Next. That UI, will be able to take full advantage of a 3D perspective, instead of shoe-horning Windows GUI features into a forward looking window in a 3D space. But that's the problem: I can't honestly say what that interface will look like. But go back in time to the early 90s, and no one could have said computers would have mice and GUI's and tabbed windows. Most of us were still running code by line execution.
@@Khasym for your last dilemma, I'm just gonna give a wild guess that it's interactive hologram or something similar to that. A 3D interactive workspace where the entire floating light projection around you can actually be functional and interactive irl. There's been a few tiny example of this where there are holo keyboards that can be used on a workdesk, but the projection is only 2D on a desk surface so far. What I'm imagining is an actual 3D holo workspace, unlike what's shown in Metaverse, but more similar to how we watched Tony Stark design his stuff in the movies.
@@MollyHJohns That's the problem Molly; that's been done...and it really doesn't work any better than a standard Windows GUI. Functionally, it's still the same kind of code: you have a fixed position in space, that displays your information. It can move, but there's no real reason to move it. It doesn't do anything if you change the size or position, other than to change the size and position.
To be clear, it's going to be a paradigm shift on par with going from line-excution code, to a GUI in the first place. I'm in my mid-to late 40s. I remember running a Line code on an ADAM computer(yes, THAT ADAM :-) ) in the equivalent of a CMD window, to load Buck Rogers. :-) In the early nineties. I was taking COBOL and FORTRAN in college, when I started seeing Windows 3.1 :-) To say that within five years, almost every program was GUI compliant and capable is an understatement :-) But that's the level of change in computer thought that needs to happen to get the Metaverse beyond high-minded ideas. Everything we've done with computing, has been borne out of the Windows GUI and Linux architecture....that's gotta happen again to get Meta out of being metaphysical. :-)
@Khasym
There are a few papers that talk about what you're hinting at in more detail, usually going by name that include "post-WIMP user interfaces", meaning minimising our reliance on Windows Icons Menus and Pointers, and another which I remember being good called "The Anti-Mac" which was mostly theory, but it took much of the ideas present in the Macintosh's human interface guidelines and intentionally did the opposite to see what might happen. I don't think we'll get there 100%, since we will always need to input data somehow, and on top of that there would be hefty privacy concerns, but the technological endpoint is described as the "non-command interface" where the computer accurately predicts your wishes and carries out actions to your benefit without you needing to command the machine.
A lot of the attempts have failed, sadly, either due to poor design decisions, lack of adoption, or both. Windows 8's Metro UI was an example, trying to make the thing you're working on the centre of attention and hiding away tools until you ask for them, but we all know how that went. The most promising implementation I think we have is the GNOME Shell for GNU Linux systems, which is still based in the WIMP paradigm, but rethinks a lot of the ideas we're used to. I still think there's some poor design choices with GNOME that make it needlessly difficult for people used to more traditional user interfaces, but there are also things I really love about it, too.
Carmack is a legend for reasons. I know him more for Doom and Quake as they're games I still play, but he's been a huge part of VR too, so him leaving Meta is huge. Glad to see it.
Carmack: Hmm, this current programming difficulty is a nuisance. Oh, I know! I'll just create a new way to program that catapults the whole science a few years! There, it's done. I need a Diet Coke.....😈
I was a fan of Carmack even before reading and understanding id Tech 1's code. After I did, I wholly respect the man.
John Carmack is a programming freak of nature. The dude knows his stuff and losing him is terrible for Meta.
When you lose Carmack, you know you fucked up
Edit: I love that Yong compares this to the Kojima and MG Survive thing, because Meta's already making MG Survive with Carmack, imagine the shit they'll be making without his help
He touched on one thing that I have had an issue with the meta verse which is this vision they seemed to have where the meta verse is almost a replacement for human face-to-face interactions. We don't want to replace all of our work meetings with vr, we don't want to replace concerts and live events with vr, we don't want to replace hanging out with friends with vr, we don't want to spend all of our time only seeing each other as these bland avatars. People aren't sticking around after they've tried the meta verse because there is not really any entertainment value and it feels like the creators intend for the users to provide the value and purpose to the meta verse rather than provide value and purpose up front
They have this grandiose idea of being able to profit off all human interactions but are too stupid to implement it
Oddly enough, the best part about VR for me is I don't dissociate on it like other devices. I can only stay in it for an hour or two maximum for the day. I couldn't imagine having to be glued to it for everyday things and interactions. VR helps me unfreeze and gives me needed exercise and energy. Playing VR Table Tennis, Beat Saber, or Walkabout Mini Golf for half an hour is enough.
I’ve got VR and it’s the biggest mistake purchase I ever made in gaming. I play DCS and sim racing and what’s sold vs reality is very different. MOST people don’t like VR. They use triple screens and head trackers. Even if the hardware was light and simple, we don’t want to be in this all inclusive world completely separated from reality.
There are a lot of people in the communities with VR who choose not to use it for many reasons. It’s not nearly as cool and fun as it’s marketed.
The biggest red flag is that no one will let you try headsets before you buy them. Imagine spending $800 on a phone or TV and you were never allowed to test it first. That’s the only reason VR sells.
I remember the part in the most famous livestream video (sorry I forgot the UA-camr' name) where they had to pay just to clap for his stand up performance... Their stock plummeted during that livestream lol.
If 2020 taught us anything, people go insane without real human interaction.
John carnack is a f cking legend. Massive massive respect for his years of pushing pro consumer ideas in tech during his entire career.
I gotta admit, that was an expertly placed advertisement on those AR glasses! Very compelling, given the video content you're discussing.
Check out Rec Room. It has been around forevever. It has a 9/10 rating and was made for a low budget. It eats Meta's breakfast lunch dinner and sleeps with it's wife.
And parents.
@@DoctorProph3t "There are only two sexes, the one I had with your dad and the one I had with your mom."
When I had a VR headset a few years back there was one clear issue with it: the company. The restrictive annoying Facebook infrastructure basically killed the entire experience for me, I ended up parting with it.
Just make it an open platform, you would have your "metaverse" built for you by the community in days!
Mark Zuckerberg watched Player One and said to himself "That's what I want society to be like!"
"But forget the legs. Where we're going we don't need legs."
Yup.
And ended up just making a kid's play thing.
@@tjenadonn6158 😂😂😂
Just was missing the bug burgers and cricket Steaks
Nah, Ready Player One was too visually interesting for Zuck's tastes. He wants his cyberpunk dystopia to be boring.
With Carmack gone, the chances of the Meta Quest becoming the next Google Stadia have just _quadrupled._
What's happening with Metaverse reminds me of the sad fate of Darth Plagueis the Kind. Man who owns half the world through legitimate means seeks the other half through illegitimate means and this loses him all of it.
Sounds like a real tragedy
It's not a story the Jedi would share.
When a man like Carmak says your project is hosed and skates out with both fingers in the air, you know its dead in the water.
When the guy who basically coded most of VR's major precursors is mad at you, you dun effed up.
John Carmack is a programmer genius, good he did that
I wonder if Carmack could go to work with Valve with their VR projects, Valve could be a comfortable fit for Carmack to tinker and work on whatever vr project he wants over there
I wouldn't mind Valve taking over the VR game tbh, Gaben isn't really evil unlike ZuckerBorg
I feel like if you put Gabe and Carmack on a project the fabric of reality may break or warp into something unrecognizable.
@@Tokumastu1 Maybe that's how the Big Bang happened. Gabe and John were floating in the void and decided to put a little something together.
@@squadbroken962 Totally agree. Valves steamvr system is flat out the best for pc gaming. Wireless is nice, but nothing beats the tracking capabilities of valves lighthouse tracking. I have no interest in inside out tracking.
eh... I imagine he'd run into similar issues with nothing getting done at valve.
Though it's entirely possible he would fix that.
He pioneered a lot more than that!
Now Carmack can go to Valve and make the VR of our dreams. They have money, and they have the internal structure to allow him to do what he wants for the most part.
plus the team at Valve, including leadership, actually understands tech/programming and its limitations, so whatever John says would actually be worth a damn lol
I'm really glad that Carmack made that decision. He doesn't need to continue to tarnish his legacy.
John Carmack is smarter than anyone at Meta. Losing him is just another disaster for them.
I was wondering how long this was going to take. Carmack is a genius, and they must have been paying him a crapload to work at Meta this long.
Wish the best for John. Provided me with lots of childhood memories of blowing demons to bits on my snes.
it always amused me that games like vrchat and second life have already achieved what meta is trying to do and they didnt have trillion dollar company pumping them up
Meta’s not trying to create a VR social space, they’re trying to create an environment that they can force wage slaves into and then monetize heavily.
I've felt that he would always be the last straw of oculus and now meta. As long as he was there it felt like they could still maybe somehow actually do something cool. But now that he's gone, it will properly collapse in no time I feel.
I feel like Meta should’ve given that money to VR Chat. They’re basically closer to that virtual world than Mark 👀
Hell, even IMVU looks better than Metaverse.
@mageenderman4376 Both are Dead
One thing that really sucks about Meta is that someone I went to college with basically restructured their whole art business around being an artist for the metaverse. She wanted to get in “on the ground floor” and offer NFTs and digital goods etc for people to buy and trade. And she had gone through some hard times and desperately needed a payday so I get the impulse on some level, but I warned her it was not a good idea. Here we are a little over a year later and it’s all collapsed before it even got started…
Meta could learn a lot from VRChat.
It won't. VRChat allows people to express themselves creatively through their avatar designs, which is anathema to Zuck's brand.
@@Sylocat It also uses a spyware anti-cheat, which is why I'm thinking "God, it probably won't matter all that much, but hopefully they DON'T learn anything from VRChat."
Honestly they could probably learn more from Second Life, which is still thriving. Its lost a fair few users to VRChat, mainly furries who have money to burn on pretending to be their fursona in cyberspace, but an actual scripting language that can access external data because it was born from the Web 2.0 era were everything was connected is still compelling to many a creative mind.
I've been getting ads from meta about the metaverse and their main selling point was being able to play pool in VR. All I could do was laugh at it.
There's something wrong with Meta for business too. I'm helping a client run ads for facebook and we set it up for a week and the ad still running and There's no way to pause it or contact them.
I have so much respect for John Carmack. Absolutely savage
I always knew that Meta couldn't contain the benevolent hyper intelligent architect of the post singularity simulation we all live in known as John Carmack
This is an all familair problem. It's rare to find executives that have actually ever touched a line of code or know what is actually involved. The always say I understand it from a "high-level"... that is code for I don't know anything. Meta is a prime example of this.
This reminds me when we first heard of Quake. It was described as a realistic experience where you are on the walls of a castle, you look up at its tower and it's so realistic that you get vertigo and fall down. I read this as a kid, so it's not 1:1 accurate probably, but the point is that even back then when they created first person games like Doom and Quake, they were trying to create an immersive experience. Today we remember Doom and Quake as fast paced action games, but back in the day they were the most realistic, most immversive experiences, similar to what Meta is trying to be. So, for Carmack this is a straight line of succession, because at the low level where he works, it doesn't really matter if this technology will be used for a shooter or a crypto storefront. He knows exactly what the next step should be to create the technology needed for the next iteration of this type of application.
Considering he's actual developer and not a figurehead bean counter it's surprising it took this long for him to quit Occulus/Meta
Was wondering when this would happen. Carmack was at Oculus pre-buyout. Sorry Zuck, most people want to live in the real world.
With the amount of money mark spent this should’ve in theory created the best thing ever
10 billion for a bad video game.
Money can't buy intelligence
The problem is that this is not how things work at all, no well made and well thought out product ever requires a company to just splurge money all over it in hopes of the thing coming together
Carmack clearly understands this as his main goals and his key complaints are specifically about this
@@Spike2276 that’s why I said in theory
Quake 1 Team Fortress. Those who had played, were truly blessed! Thanks John!
As a design engineer, I really do understand the frustration and difficulty of trying to explain to your boss that "well boss, that's not feasible to do with our current technology" when all your boss thinking is about flashy and grandiose presentation stuff that looks cool in concept, but unfeasible, impractical and inefficient in practice, stuff that's behind the stage that ground level employee knows about
Carmack was one of the pioneers or even THE pioneer of dynamic light and shadows in a completely 3D enviromnent with the creation of the engine that ran Quake. Something like Meta must be hightly frustrating to him, if not even vexxing.
i think he lasted more than i imagined, i thought he would leave sooner, a company like facebook doesn't deserve someone as brilliant as him
This is no surprise; Carmack and id software are both associated with fantastic performance regarding their products. We can say a lot about Doom 3, but the game looked gorgeous at the time (assuming you could actually see the damn game) and ran fantastic even on mid-range hardware. Hell, even post-Carmack, id software made sure to still release really solid products that are anything but inefficient.
5:48 You may not like it, but this is what peak immersion looks like.
Feels super weird using mine in public. Can't even laugh at a youtube vid without thinking about how dumb I look
There'll probably be a future when all you need to do is lie down on your bed as you wear the headgear or glasses, or sleep for days in a self-sustainable pod as you 'live online'. That's probably what Metaverse is aiming at.
There's a reason like Romero we haven't seen Carmack have a hit and he has been living off past success. They both needed each other and keep each other in check.
You know, the problem isn't high visual fidelity on the avatars. It's not the quality that's the problem. Video games chased visual fidelity for years. And it peaked with a bunch of taupe on brown games that were visually boring.
The problem is that the meta avatars aren't interesting. They don't have style; they aren't expressive.
They somehow managed to make the zuck look like even more of a robot than he comes across as in real life. He is a terrible choice for a flagship avatar.
Nobody wants to be represented in the virtual world by an avatar as boring as they are in real life.
Carmack is a eldrich being capable of such amazing feats us mere mortals fail to comprehend.
Loving the selection of sponsorships on this channel, they actually make sense for the topic being discussed in the video.
Biggups Yong!!!!
This is the classic high level hand-waving of the inept clueless residing atop the white ivory tower. My only question to Carmack: what took you so long??
I got an email the other day from Meta. It said something like "it's time to make your account compatible with meta quest." I don't have Facebook. Haven't for years. Lol
3:20 the same feeling you get when you realize that a lot of these big time grocerie stores throw away food after the day is over, rather than donate it to the homeless. Or when a cop gives a homeless person a sandwiche with dog poop in it. It really is all just plum out sad 😔
Having such a briliant mind leave a company and vision for VR is such a tragedy...
How's this a tragedy? Garbage like Metaverse simply cannot be allowed to succeed. Thankfully it wasn't getting anywhere and without Carmack it has no chance. It's not like Zuckerberg owns VR. Nothing's stopping Carmack from continuing his passion for it elsewhere.
Fuck no. Carmack staying in the cash mincer that is Meta was the true tragedy.
I take issue with the idea that it's the 'old guard' leaving that's the core of the problem we're facing. It's really, really not. It's the people chasing profits over all else who have more and more power to dictate terms for the games - and none of the 'old guard' could have ever stopped this because they're not in executive positions at massive corporations. This is something we've done and continue to do to ourselves; you can't have a system that prioritizes making money over all else coexisting with a system that has a different core ethos - like, say, creating the best game you can. It was never the devs, it was always the executives.
My only hope with this metaverse BS were the hardware advancements that were taking place with Oculus because of all the R&D that was being funded for Zuck’s wet dream. But now that Carmack is gone, I feel like that foundation is going to crumble too. Even if they keep pouring money into R&D, Carmack’s influence on everything is no joke, even if he says that he just consulted people.
IMO Carmack sell a part of his soul when he joined facebook on this...
Everyone seem to have forgotten that Facebook buying Oculus thank to Carmack almost doomed VR.
So, even if I respect the god he is in code, he got it coming.
Time Traveling Inter-Dimensional Over Genius and Actual Rocket Scientist John Carmack has left Meta? I didn't even know he was working for them
How do you have a legend like John Carmack on your payroll and not listen to him?
That transition of the sunglasses was smooth as f**k and I loved it lmao
I like when people actually do a advertisement FUN to watch...good job mate
I'm still trying to figure out what the billions were spent on. How many slush funds were financed through people telling zuck what he wanted to hear?
John Carmack still has a programming soul. That bit about how important bolt details are shows that he sees the technical limitations and how those limitations affect the final product.
Software isn't going to magical appear just because an executive wants it. Also it's curious how Zuckerberg went all in and limited the metaverse to vr googles, when there are still billions of smart devices in the world.
I'm not a tech guy, but I still had doubts that "ready player one" was actually doable. And, admittedly, I hoped it wasn't. Unlike the Zuck, I actually understood that world is something to be avoided, not to aspire to.
It will be but right now its too early.
We should ALL be:
1. Playing Doom
2. Slamming Mark Zuckerberg
Step 1: Spend millions hiring the most professional guy
Step 2: Ignore what the most professional guy says
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
That's all right, the designer and programmer of our post-singularity Matrix simulation John Carmack will find a new project that befits his greatness.
I can't even imagine how frustrating his time at FB must have been...
Worth noting that the ability to dream big is super important to project planning, but it's then followed no later than the next meeting by nuts and bolts questions.
The most amazing game engine genius of all time
One of the most popular games of all time (Minecraft) has BLOCK graphics. It’s not the graphics that matter, it’s the fun.
Meta: "You can remote work for the day in the Metaverse." Also Meta: "For 1 to 2 hours"
Its amazing how much money was spent on that when places like VRChat are doing the same thing with far more success. All that money wasted which could've instead been used to fund potential like VRChat
I love that this whole comment section is basically "you lose the nerd, you lose the world." And they're absolutely right.
We live in a world where politicians and execs SAY "I take full responsibility", but their actions show they take none at all
carmack pretty much invented the First person shooter with wolf 3d and doom i will never understand why geniuses like him get ignored.
They’re so not ignored. By anyone.
you know shits bad when hyper intelligent space luddite and master of the binding inbetween space of our post singularity simulation decides enough is enough
I'll never see the point of Meta or these VR worlds that are so terribly made, it's a waste of the time and effort of employees and more.