Anyone who plans to remove an op amp from a socket should absolutely invest in a chip puller. It’s cheap and helps you safely remove the device without bending pins.
For me v6 classic is great, running in the output stage of Arcam Alpha 5 CD player diy dac. Gives a detailed sound, without ever sounding harsh or bright. It doesn't sound "digital" it just sounds like music. You listen to the music, not at the gear.
The Burson V7 Vivid is quite slow at the top end - can't compare to the OPA828. I ended up using my Bursons for the sub base in the end where they do a very job.
For DIY: Best results by far with the SparkoS I got with not just drop in replacement but build a little seperated circuit according to the datasheet, with quality input and output decoupling capacitors added, with seperate linear power supply. Use a a DIP8 extension socket to lead the input signal from your original opamp socket to your little circuit you build yourself. It was my first time I build an electronic circuit, so with a precise (temperature regulated) soldering iron it is easy to do. Gives an Astonishing improvement of sound quality. PS I used this in the output stage of a DAC / preamp
I'm using the Sparkos SS3601 in a phono premap and it's great for vinyl playback. It has a smooth and warmer tube sound, but no loss of detail. I agree that treble is a bit rolled off, but it works for my system, which was a tad bright.
I bought 4 Sparkos SS3602s for my Soloist 3XP. I was experiencing the brightness on the high end that you mentioned with the stock V6 Vivids. The way you described how these op-amps change the sound was spot-on. I ended up on the same combination as you, with 2 SS3602s in the volume stage and 2 V6 Vivids in the gain stage. This combination brought out a bit of magic from the Soloist. Thank you for providing quality information and recommendations.
Hello! I'm actually thinking about to remove that harsh top end on the soloist. Would it be better To use 4 Sparkos, or just like you mentioned. 2 sparkos on the volume stage. I always use the Power Amp mode, not sure if that relevant.
I would probably start with two in the volume stage which, from memory, remains influential over the sound even though the volume control chip is bypassed. If you buy two to begin with and the volume control isn't influential as I think it is then you'll only need two anyway - just move them across to the input stage 🙂
I tried about 15-20 kinds in the Kinki Studio M1 amp. The best was the Staccato but the Burson was good and enjoyed the Muses01 and 03 JFETs op amps where very good for non-discrete units.
I asked and you answered. Thank you! I'm also happy that I can try your recommendations exactly with the Soloist 3x. Another informative and entertaining video, great work.
Excellent review, especially since I just bought the Burson amp today! I didn't know about op-amp rolling before this video and now I look forward to 'playing around' with this down the line. Great.
That was meee! haha Thanks for the shoutout. Can't imagine trying to roll op-amps on the GT. ☠️ Glad you were able to try the Staccato. I actually found them to be neutral instead of v-shaped, but I agree putting it at the volume stage is where it's at. It's just a slight tweak that will offset the vivids tonality a bit. I also want to echo your thoughts on being VERY careful with op-amp swapping. I tried the sonic imagery labs op-amps and they ended up blowing one of my headphones (they weren't exactly throw away but I didn't mind losing them). After inspection, there was nothing I did wrong and there was nothing wrong with the op-amps. It's still a mystery. Too bad I didn't get to test them because they looked really good.
I'm still in two minds about op-amp rolling in the GT. Scared to mess with a very good thing 🙂 That's no good about the Sonic Imagery op-amps! Sometimes certain circuits don't work with certain op-amps due to voltage levels, etc. ☹️
I think eventually compiling an opamp "guide" would be very useful. Essentially describing what the sound signatures are for various opamps in the same device with all other things being equal in that device. Perhaps by class of opamp.
It would be a great resource for sure! While this is my secondary "hobby" and not my main job it will be very hard to find the kind of time needed, but maybe one day - that would be great!
Great summary of Op-amps. Have you tried the 3XP in 'headphone power amp mode', where the volume stage is bypassed and the volume is controlled by the DAC? It would be interesting to hear which Op-amp you would prefer when you only need two of them in the 3XP.
I have used it that way before, but not while rolling op-amps. A patron of the channel just tried power amp mode with op-amps removed from the volume stage and has proved that there is still signal passing through that stage, just not being processed by it so the same conclusions apply - Sparkos SS3602 in the volume stage and V6 Vivids in the input stage.
@@PassionforSound Interesting, surely the Muse chip is taken out of the equation then as the difference between the two modes on this amp is so big on my system that I don't think I could ever go back to the stock form. Burson 3XP with a Supercharger and in by-pass mode is a significantly more convincing amp than it is in its stock form (and I already liked it in its stock form).
Hello, that was a very complex video. It must've taken a long time to put together! And you did an amazing job on explaining everything. I am wondering if using the Staccatos in the DAC improve the depth of the soundstage? Does any combination compares to the Schiit Bifrost 2 in terms of soundstage? Thank you, Good job on the video
I'm yet to find any delta sigma DAC (other than the Chord DACs thanks to their custom algorithms) that produces depth and a 3D presentation like the Schiit Multibit DACs. The Staccato op-amps in the Composer didn't really help much in that regard - I just preferred the overall sense of space (in a fairly 2D sense) and general tonality they brought to the DAC
Since your into diy headphone amps and op amp rolling I thought I would mention the whammy class a headphone amp kit at diy audio. Lots of positive reviews of it and can't go wrong with a pass labs designed amp ! Thank you for your hard work !
I have a composer / soloist stack. I bought a pair of sparko's op amps. I liked them in the volume stage of the soloist ... until I purchased a super charger, now I am back using all v6 vivid's. Tried the sparko's in the LP stage of the composer. Tons of depth vs the vivid's wall of detail, totally lost all the special sauce though. Swapped them to volume, same but not as pronounced. I know this is an op amp video. But if you have this setup. My money was best spent purchasing a super charger. This opinion is based on He6se v1's, Focal Elegia's, Starfield's, tea's and my 42 year old ears. I appreciate all your time spent in the creation of this video ... it was definitely an undertaking!
Glad you liked the video and thank you for sharing your experiences with the op-amps! I think it's an excellent example of the fact that personal taste and product synergy will always play a part.
I have found that the Sparkos ss-3602s take about a month of solid listening for them to play in. Before then (ie: brand new) they can be kinda tipped up and sharp in the treble, IMO.
@@PassionforSound No worries though. I don't know about Sparkos Labs recommendations (I didn't check w/ them, but theydid mellow a bit after a while) but Burson actually recommends 100hrs (or 30 days) to allow them to play in before serious evals (I got this from a Burson rep). Keep up the excellent work...
I do believe in burn-in, but I find that any significant shift in sound occurs fairly early in the process. That said, each of these were used for extended general (non-critical) listening for a few days each before doing the direct comparisons.
Both Burson and Sparkos suggest 30 days or 100 hours - at least. I own both the Sparkos SS-3602s and the Burson V6 Vivids - they both took that long to play in /burn in and sound smoother. Before then, they were both brighter/harsher/much less smooth and weren't anything special compared to IC based opamps. Now they're both crushing all the IC based opamps I have on hand.......
Thanks for the content Lachlan! between the 3XP 3GT and supercharger reviews this is just another tweak for people to make to get the sound/performance they are looking for.
I agree. The op-amps provide a more significant change to the sound, but still a tweak rather than a huge upgrade (unless you're coming from an IC op-amp). Glad you liked the review 🙂
For me I went with 4 SS3602 op amps in the 3XP and that was the best combination. I'm feeding it with a Holo Spring KTE (r2r) dac so smooth input. My primary Hps with this amp are the 1266 Phi TC which have great bass detail and impact, a slight mids dip, and a 12k peak in the treble. So the Sparkos help tame the treble peak, smooths the mids, and retain the bass impact. I'm still awaiting the supercharger so that may change for my setup so only using the standard power.
That makes sense if you're looking to pull back on the upper treble a bit. It'll be very interesting to see if the Super Charger makes enough difference that you feel the need to split the op-amps or stay all Sparkos...
got the supercharger in tonight and boy I'm wowed... Holo Spring KTE -> 3XP + 4 sparkos + SC -> 1266 Phi TC is quite the chain. TBH I really dont' think the 3GT will be necessary for my needs. I will try the Vivids in input this weekend and try swapping out sparkos and vivids in the volume control and see what we get. I'll just say the SC really cleans up the entire signal from upper mids all the way up to 15k. I'm still getting the warmth from the sparkos but the detail in the treble is way better now. The cranberries - something else is a great album to show off the differences. All the different instruments to accompany her vocals are just so much more present and defined now.
Hi! I have the combo you know and love: Soloist 3XP with Supercharger and the Meze Elite. Would you say that the Sparkos op-amps in the volume stage are the preferred config for you for the Elites? Thinking about getting them as the final upgrade to the headphone chain
Thanks Lachlan for the excellent review. I have the Soloist 3XP and I am going to try the two Sparkos opamps on the output as you have recommended. Do you think it would be worth trying their top end op-amp, the SS2590 instead of the SS3602?
It would be worth a try for sure! I'm yet to go down that path myself. Just be sure to check that they'll fit before you order them and maybe double check with Andrew from Sparkos that they're a straight swap into the circuit instead of the V6 Vivids.
@@PassionforSoundHi Lachlan- considering the Sparkos 33602/1 for my Burson C3P (not x version) and wondering if I should swap for buffer stage or volume stage? I have Vivids in all positions currently. For the C3P, I/V or buffer stage is dual, and LP or volume stage is single, so I can’t swap in both, thus wondering where the Sparkos will have the most impact. Thanks for any advice!
I haven't tried the C3P with swapping and I don't have one to try it with. Based on my experiences with the Soloist, the volume stage is a bit less impactful so I'd base my decision on how much you want to adjust the sound. If it's pretty close to perfect already, go with the volume stage. If you want a more significant shift away from the treble of the Vivids, go with the buffer stage.
Great video, really insightful. Current running an Aune X8 and X7s stack which i love.....would you be able to recommend an op amp for gaming? How would the ss3602 or a Burson V5i fair for gaming and music?
@PassionforSound Would placing the Sparkos in the volume stage tend to take the Soloist a little closer to the flavor of a Schiit Jot 2 in your opinion or is the Jot 2 lively engaging sound just unique to that particular amplifier?
I think the Jot 2 is a bit unique. The Sparkos op-amps will definitely smooth out the slightly enhanced treble from the Soloist so it brings it closer to the tonality of the Jot 2, but the slightly enhanced, punchy bass from the Jot 2 is impossible to replicate with the op-amps I've tried in the Soloist.
Hi lachlan, great video, i truly enjoyed it. Couldni sum uo that your preference is the ss3602s in the volume and vivids in the inout gain stage? May i ask for your opinion about a ss3602 vs the v6 classic. Thank you
That's correct about my preference for the op-amps. I haven't used the Classics alongside the ss3602, but I found the Classics a bit too rich in the Soloist when I originally reviewed it.
Very interesting. I didn't realise there was a significant difference in sound of different op amps. It raises a whole lot of questions as to why different op amps sound different. I would love to see the frequency response, distortion response, transient response and noise performance of all these op amps.
I know you didn't ask me but, yes, there is a difference in opamp SQ - depending on the application and the component it's placed in. I have replaced opamps in my Gustard H20 headphone amp with several different ones. They each have a slightly different SQ presentation but your amp, DAC, and HP need to be revealing enough to reproduce them. There are some sites (like ASR) that, as a philosophy, don't believe in such changes outside of FR, distortion, and noise, etc, but I don't think measurements tell the complete story of how we hear. As always, YMMV.
It would be great to see these measurements, but I think a part of the issue is that we don't fully understand yet what we're measuring for. I do think there are measurements like slew rate, intermodulation distortion and impulse response that might tell some of the story, but I've not yet seen a collection of data for a number of op-amps where we can compare the data and see how it predicts sound.
yes there is a great deal of sound presentation difference but not sure it will show up on any measurement graph. Check out Sandu (soundnews) he recently did a super review of the Susvara. In his written article he does quite the comparison of hp and power amp pairings with Sus. He basically describes how differently the sound presentation is made but it doesn't show up on meaningful differences on his frequency response measurements. Which basically means that what we can measure thus far doesn't fully account for what we are hearing.
This video was very helpful for me as we share the same thoughts in regards to how the Soloist sounds with its full array of V6 Vivid op amps installed. Encouraged by this video I made the investment and recently swapped in a pair of V6 Classics on the volume control side of my Soloist 3X while retaining the V6 Vivids on the input side. About the only negative is a slight reduction in soundstage size (and it’s very slight) but I really like how it smoothed the highs, richened the mids a touch and gave a bit more weight to the bass without altering the resolution. I primarily listen to my 2021 Audeze LCD-X on my Soloist and a lot of the music I enjoy often leans to the poorly produced side of things with the treble sections on the hot side of neutral which can get fatiguing on longer listening sessions. The Classics smoothed that edge off but still kept enough air in the treble to still be just as resolving as it was with the array of Vivids. Keep in mind these differences are subtle but definitely noticeable. Folks shouldn’t expect their Burson amp to sound like a completely different amp after the change……think of it as tweaking an EQ in a sense. For folks that find the Soloist sounds a bit analytical or on the bright side at times, swapping in the Classics (or another op amp that’s known to warm things up a touch) might just be the ticket depending on their headphones/music choices to put the sound signature in the sweet spot for your preferences.
Thanks for adding your experiences to the mix! To add further clarity for people reading this, I felt like the Classics (back when I first tried the Soloist 3XP) were a touch smoother than the Sparkos SS3602 so you can choose your flavour based on preferences: V6 Classics = more smooth, SS3602 = moderately smooth, V6 Vivid = most transparent/bright
I have rolled in v6 classics in my GT in the volume stage and had the same results vs the stock vivids. I subsequently rolled in a pair of SIL 994 opamps into the input buffer and observed a lush boost to the entire lower end of the frequency sprectrum say below 2khz. If you are still searching for a stronger sense “drive” to the lower end, try the SILs. Techno/electro music lovers take note!
18:09 Preference. Thank You Bro for saying this. Im planning to buy a Composer and Soloist stack and im also an opamp collector/opamp rolling enjoyer. Now i know which part is the Input Stage and Volume Stage. On 25:58. May I know which of the socket is the Input and Volume Stage of the composer? Is it the top or the bottom part or maybe just tell what socket is on the one that is close to volume knob/front panel. Thank you.
I don't recall which is which off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure it's shown on the Burson website. Just check out the pics on the Composer page.
I think i am late to the party. Your video is very useful. It's like having a reference book :P I recently got a Burson timekeeper 3ir (using it with Digaudio evoke for desktop) and output for headphones and i have got Burson soloist 3xp which comes with V6 vivid upamps. I was reading about SS3602. I am looking for tube like sound(without tubes) if there is such thing, bit more natural and vocals . If there difference will be more profund compared to v6. Do i need to get 4 of these to do this or only a pair? I really appreciate your kind help as always
Hi Kam, for the Soloist 3XP you can use 2 or 4 op-amps. The Sparkos won't make it sound tubey, but a bit smoother than the Vivids. It's also potentially worth considering the V6 Classics too.
Sparkos gave me a amazing upgrade to my dx7pro. Measures great but sure remembered the fake glaring tremble before, tremble turned detailed airy (That silent area in tracks / microphone hiss noise is actually airy 50%misinterpreted by a inferior opamp.), mids turned double detailed, bass is faster and tighter thus not for bassheads. In short it sounds real, the reverb and air of actual live music.
If I knew how to solder, I'd put the SS3602 over the Burson Audio V5i Dual in my XDUOO XD-05Plus since all the songs are punchy, fun and really great to listen to.
I bought a douk audio u3 mini and a burson v5i according to your suggestion and the result is really outstanding!!! For the price, i doubt you can get anything better than this.
@@PassionforSound for sure. I never had the idea the difference would be so big. I also ordered a muses02 to put in another small unit dac I have. I actually prefer these smaller chips, as they are more versatile, being able to fit almost any unit. Those 3 seem excellent but are too big for what I have. Maybe I'll try the opa627, also according to your suggestions on other videos. They're actually a lot cheaper now and may be the best value out of all of them. Thanks a bunch!
I love the Muses02 and OPA627 both for when a discrete op-amp is too big. Remember that the OPA627 is a mono chip so you need two on an adapter to replace dual chips
This is the best opamp comparison on UA-cam! I have the bursons Class & Viv and Staccato for my Composer. I must have watched this video 10 times! Because I am currently ordering a VTV amp and having to choose which opamps I want it with. This helps me a lot in choosing especially in regards to the Sparkos and how they compare to my current opamps. If you are ever up to doing another comparison, would be great to hear your opinion on the Sonic imagery, New Class D and the super expensive Weiss. Thanks
@@slaving300 The Vivid has more of what you describe in regards to accentuated details in the treble area. It doesn’t automatically translates into fatigue but if you have a system that is bright and prone to that, the Vivid will accentuate it over the Classic.
Hello, I own a burson conductor x3 like you. I get sparkos to use the same as you in the volumen. However the become very hot. Near 90 Celsius degree. Do you have the same issues? Thanks
I haven't checked the temperature of them, but that seems quite extreme. Maybe try them in the other pair of sockets and see if they are the same there.
Just ordered the Soloist 3XP and a pair of Arya Stealths. Will later replace my DAC, should i chose the Composer over the Bifrost 2 due to the Op-amp possibilities you think?
Nope 😉 The Bifrost beats any configuration of op-amps you'll put in the Composer IMO. It's down to the decoding stage in the DACs so the output stage won't fix the delta sigma limitations in the Composer. The Composer is a lovely DAC. The Bifrost 2 is just better
I wouldn't personally bother with power amp mode unless the DAC is providing really high quality volume control. I felt like using the Composer to control the volume took something away from the Composer/Soloist stack
I have a pair of V6 classic Burson op-amps. I going to dig them up and try them in the volume stage with the vivids in the Soloist. Thanks, great vid .
Thank you for the great vid! I really appreciated the very in-depth info and methodologies. I do have a question about how everything compared to the original op amp? Why didn’t you use the original as the control?
Oh, I see! I went over your video again. I didn’t realize it came with the V6 Vivid at the stock. I will rephrase it. Why didn’t you use an IC Op Amp like a 5532 or 2107 as a control since those are more available than the $50+ Op Amps. Have you compared them before? What was your opinion in comparison to the discrete ones? If you ALSO covered this in your video then I’m super dense and I apologize!
No, I didn't cover that - you're not dense 😁 The reason I didn't discuss IC op-amps is because the surrounding circuit is quite important in the sound of an op-amp. If the amp came with IC op-amps, it would have made sense, but my emphasis here was more on rolling from the stock setup in the Soloist and Composer to the Sparkos and Staccato op-amps. Apologies if that was unclear!
Awesome. Will you also happen to list a bunch of DACs and/or AMPs that have rollable (swappable) op-amps? Be nice to see what's out there in the market. I only know of the Bursons that you have and my XDUOO XD-05Plus (but has certain limitations)
I don't know that one - sorry. The best bet is to see what chip is currently in the device and then search on whether it is a dual or mono chip. Depending on where you're located or how much shipping you're happy to pay, I have two Burson Fun headphone / pre-amps here that I no longer need and am planning to sell. They're made for op-amp rolling.
@@PassionforSound It has dual chips.. so i believe I will have to use some kind of adapter to fit 2 mono in one dual socket so thats a total of 4 mono chips in this preamp.. which may be cost prohibitive. I rather use 2 dual chips. So much to learn.. I'm not a electronics guy. Edit: I live in the US. How much are you asking for your Burson preamp? Which model?
It's the Burson Fun that I've got and I've got two of them to make it easier to compare op-amps. I'd sell them both for $150 AUD plus postage. If you're after adapters for single to dual op-amps, do a search for Brown Dog op-amp adapters. From memory they're not that expensive
@@PassionforSound your offer is generous but at this time I'm getting my feet wet in the tube & opamp rolling world. I already have an amp atm so maybe I'll have to wait. Question: Is the V6 vivid or the stacatos a significant upgrade over the muse02? How different do they sound?
No problems! As for your question, yes, both the V6 Vivid and Staccato op-amps are a significant upgrade over the Muses02 (which is already great). The biggest improvement you can expect is in the soundstage size and depth. I haven't compared them directly to comment on tonality
Hi Passion for Sound! Would you tell me please if changing the op amps makes sense if I only use dx7 just as a dac with fixed xlr volume (without the preamp section)? Thank you!
I haven't found any videos which cover(sorry if you did and i missed it) power supply needs for each discrete opamp which needs more power supply than regular opamps. I've been told i have to increase my power supply, but never by how much or how i figure out how that all works since i don't know anything about that or soldering and would need to take exact info to my local tech who likewise doesn't seem very versed in this kind of stuff and doesn't know digital at all and on top of it speaks broken english. I have 32x i/v single opamp converters for each dac chip(16 per channel). I have 2x single ended output opamps(idk if single or double, i assume single since there's one on the left channel board and 1 on right channel board). I also have a buffer stage on each channel board that uses 1x opamp each right before the outputs. I also have an optoisolator section that looks like 3x opamps on each channels board.(they may or may not be opamps?
I've used the Burson, Sparkos and Staccato discrete op-amps in lots of different devices and never needed to worry about power supplies. Is the device you're using an amp with swappable op-amps or are you modifying a soldered circuit?
That's getting a little esoteric for my knowledge. If the op-amps are easily identifiable, you could always email the company who's op-amps you want to use (e.g. Burson or Sparkos) and check with them for compatibility.
My one main question would be; Can you get almost the same results from EQ? They all sound like they are more similar than different. Basically, is this another change/device to change the sound without using EQ?
EQ will only ever alter frequency response whereas you'll find that op-amps change things like soundstage size, instrument separation, etc. EQ can have a more dramatic impact on frequency response so they're for different purposes IMO
I have the smsl SU-9n Dac, it says it takes three dual opa1612’s. Can I upgrade those op amps in this Dac? If so, which ones would you recommend? Thanks.
Of the top of my head, the volume pair is the pair to the right of the chassis when facing the front of the amp. It's also shown on the Burson website on the Composer page. 🙂
As always, thank you for the excellent content and interesting topics.. Following your end-game op amp topologu for the Burson stack which of the Composer/Soloist woukd have a greater impact (from the stock vivid)?
Aiyima released a new "Pro" version of their successful tpa3255 A07 and the thing came with 5 opamp sockets... Oh my! Aiyima has really given us no definitive stage information on 2 sockets. We know one is input/volume.. The next is tone... Then two "math" sockets... And finally one for the output to their line out. So... I'm thinking sparkos on the input/volume and then the Burson in the tone location. There is no tone defeat switch so you have to 12 o'clock these.... So perhaps the Burson should go into that tone stage... I want to try the Burson in my Aune X8 to. I ditched the SMSL DO100 for the Aune and putting an SS3602 in there really improved things. But I am seeing Thomas & Stereo tall about the vivid v6 with high praise. I would need a special stand for the Aune with a cutout for the Burson... Oh so tall! I can t even imagine a staccato in the Aune... Definitely need to build a butcher block stand with a cutout for these things.
I've not noticed significant changes in the sound of op-amps so if there is break-in, you'll be beyond any audible changes after the first couple of hours I think. I find that some headphones can take a week or so to settle, but I'm yet to find an electrical circuit that takes more than a couple of hours to settle.
I like the way the sparkos sounds on the soundblaster x7 alot more than the k9 pro I had to turn the volume knob all the way up on the k9 pro usb dac just to get the similar sound as I was getting on the soundblaster x7 + sparkos
That's really interesting. The K9 Pro lacks some sense of dynamics in the amp stage so maybe that's what you're noticing because the Sparkos are great in that regard.
@@PassionforSound I ordered another x7 and added a warranty on it so just gonna buy some more sparkos op amps and enjoy the ride my first x7 from 2015 finally died out the mic and power still work but it won't output any sound and the application in windows hangs and I think that is due to the faulty x7
This is great Lachlan. I own the ss3602's and Burson has sent me the v6 Vivids to evaluate inside my Gustard H20 HP amp, in exchange for my honest impressions (and with an option to buy them). I have played them in (or burned in) for about ~100 hours or so and will start to commit the evaluation to post sometime this week. I will compare them with the other opamps I have on hand (ne5532's, opa2134's, Muses 8920d's, lme49720's, and Sparkos ss3602's). I am going to post my impressions on various, TBD sites. I will keep you all posted on my progress.
@@Viewer13128 I wrote a longer update but it somehow got erased. Here's the shroter version: The Sparkos are my "high-end analog playback" opamps. The offer seemingly limitless deep bass and "unrestrained" dynamics. They're revealing and "holographic" with very natural timbre. They are excellent spatially with excellent staging and very good "depth" and "distance" presentation in every dimension (ie: HxWxD). The Bursons are my "squeaky clean digital studio" opamps. They excel in clarity and cleanness with midrange and treble that is very revealing and "transparent" as opposed to the Sparkos more laid back "holographic" presentation. The bass is more "nip/tuck/clean" than the Sparkos more unrestrained/dynamic presentation. I am keeping both but which one you prefer will depend on your use case. The Sparkos work better for me in my HP setup (Gustard H20 discrete balanced amp/Hifiman Arya Stealth HPs - with the Sparkos more laid back - but still revealing presentation). The Bursons in use for my speakers setup that leans a little warm in the treble (Gustard preamp/Niles SI-275 amp/ Energy RC-10 speakers) - their treble clarity, focus, and forwardness compared to the Sparkos is welcomed to bring in slightly more treble focus to the speakers. Both are still excellent and you can't go wrong with either one - they both outshine all of the IC based opamps I've tried in the Gustard's preamp section (ie: LME49720, Muses 8920Ds, OPA2134Ps, NE5532s). It's much more cost effective and satisfying to be able to change out opamps when you want a change of pace rather than to change out whole components in your chain. I'll also leave you a useful link: www.head-fi.org/threads/the-opamp-thread.432749/; It was one of the threads I used to gather more info. Hope this whole reply is useful to you in some ways.......
Lachlan, when I first came across this video, I didn't have any components that use (swappable) op-amps, so I was not following what you were talking about. But I just got a Geshelli Labs J2S - their new version of the J2 that has the 3 op-amps in sockets, and can be ordered with either the OPA1656 (what the J2 uses), or OPA1612 (what the A2 and E2 headphone amps use, I think?) - or the Sparkos SS3602. My J2S has a SS3602 in the single ended stage, and a pair of OPA1612 in the balanced. So now your comparison is very tangible - the J2 with its OPA1656 is a bit more forward and has more emphasis on details, and can get a touch too bright (in my stereo system). With a linear power supply, the J2 is *amazing* - I strongly prefer it to the Ares II; even with the new 12th Anniversary firmware; and much better than the Bifrost 2 and 2/64. And now the J2S with the SS3602 is smoother than the J2, but with plenty of details and layering. The dimensionality you mention is definitely a thing. And the *bass* quality and dynamics of the SS3602 is phenomenal. The J2 is far better than the Ares II and better too, than the Bifrost (in either form) *with* the LPS. I am definitely using the LPS with the J2S - there is no going back to the stock switch mode PS. I hope you can review the J2S (and the J2 AKM), and maybe try some different op-amps. I have some OPA627 dual mono modules (less than $6 each from a Canadian eBay seller!) on the way. And I am getting a second J2S with the SS3602 in the balanced output. I don't think the Bursons will fit in the J2 case. The Staccato you had *might* fit in the single ended socket? But I doubt they would fit in the balanced? By the way, the Geshelli Archel 3 Pro that is imminent uses the Sparkos SS2590 - which is really cool! And I believe they will soon be working on an Erish 3 Pro ...
Thanks for sharing all this, Neil! I didn't realise the J2S was going to allow for op-amp rolling. That's cool! I will be receiving an A3 Pro in the near future and can't wait to try it!
@@PassionforSound The J2S fits the Sparkos SS3602 and any DIP8 modules. But the Burson is too tall, though they make a ribbon cable that could connect it at least. The most compact Stacatto *might* fit in the single ended socket? But I tend to think they won't fit in the balanced sockets?
@@PassionforSound The Burson units are small footprint (i.e. very slim) but obviously taller than the other options. The Sparkos SS2590 is the opposite - relatively much larger foot print, but not tall. The SS3602 is closest to a monolithic chip, and only a tiny bit larger than modules that are SOIC chip(s) mounted on a DIP8 plug. The Staccato units are in 3 different packages, with their heat sinks in various orientations. The Burson 35mm long DIP8 extension cable may be *very* useful for trying these, maybe?
Yes, the cable could be interesting. With the Staccatos, they're tricky because they're almost as tall as the Bursons and, depending on which version you get, have a footprint as big or bigger than the Sparkos.
I generally don't do sound recordings because they're misleading by the time they go through UA-cam and then whatever source chain each person is running.
Funny enough I actually needed this review as I just bought a gustard p26 preamp and the opamps on it are great but replaceable. It's still shipping but this gives me time to watch this and decide thank you 😊
Thanks so much @Passion for Sound for taking the time to review these op amps, and all your other vids as well. @V1ralBlack, I'd recommend upgrading the op amps on the p26. I have tried both the burson v6 vivids and the Sparkos SS3602s in my p26, and found the Sparkos to be cleaner sounding - more detailed. They're both great but I'd rate the vivids a 7/10 and the Sparkos 9.5/10. I only use speaker setup so head fi might be a diff story. Best of luck with your op amp rolling. :)
I just happened to stumble on this episode it didn't notify my of this one and you know me "mr op amp" can't believe I missed this one. I have had the best sound on some setups with a $2 op amp compared to the expensive ones. I can't tell you how right you are when it comes to a particular setup.
@@PassionforSound Unbelievable so. I would have a sprarkos then put in a Burson then maybe the OPA627 then end up with a $2 TL082 that sounds amazing compared to the $80 op amps.
@@PassionforSound It's scary to think with that being said, your setup may still have room for improvement STILL, and only costing $2, haha. It will drive you nuts if you let it, haha.
I also wanted to add real quick for clearance issues they make risers almost like tall 8 pin adapters and they make 2 adapters attached with wires so for example the tall burson can be layed down flat for clearance.
Wish someone would make an OPAMP like these but with at least 1 or 2 thru hole components so we can at least mod them even if it is 1 cap, resistor or diode that I could put a GE version in.
Wouldn't installing these OP amps put a strain on the power supply ? When you see some models equipped with radiators, you can legitimately ask yourself the question of their power consumption !
It's a fair point that they might draw more power, but it could also be about maintaining a certain operating temperature or perhaps a less heat-efficient design. I've certainly had no issues with them
2:04: An integrated circuit "has its own set of compromises". I suppose, hard to get high values of LRC and power needed for Class A but still enough room for switched capacitors for high value and accurate R. Can connect external LRCs. The advantage of ICs is vastly superior transistor matching and can choose optimal channel width and length on FETs. Discrete op-amp comprise with less ideal, much larger and more expensive transistors and they're almost half of the discrete components. I question your bias when you shill expensive products you get for free. $10 op-amp ICs and audio cables just too cheap to recommend. Try double blind testing with less made up adjectives with links for us to download the samples to avoid UA-cam audio compression.
@@PassionforSound Beware, it's not easy to install, the cards are much bigger, the pinout different, knowledge and soldering iron and meticulousness required. 😉
Sound samples can be misleading because they're filtered by my recording setup, UA-cam's audio compression and then the quality of each person's playback chain. By the time it reaches you, a lot of the subtleties after gone. (I say this having tried in the past to demonstrate via recordings)
That doesn't make much sense, James. The algorithm doesn't reward longer videos that people don't watch through so stretching a video wouldn't help views if there were no value to keep people watching. I also don't actually think about the algorithm when I plan my videos - I think about the gear I'm interested in and that I think others will be and then I think about what I would want to know if I were watching.
I would like to try the dual SS2590 Pro on the Soloist but there isn't enough space to fit them side by side without modifications. Great video and shirt BTW.
could you possibly expand upon this a bit more? I was nervous when changing out my op amps as I have carpet in my listening room. I was worried about static electricity from the carpet and not being grounded potentially zapping one of my components.
I generally ground myself before handling anything electronic (that's open and/or the components themselves). I can't honestly say if I did or didn't for the video - more focussed on the getting the recording right. My understanding is that ICs are the most prone to static discharge damage so most of what I was doing should have been safe and I've never had issues with discrete op-amps, but it is good advice and mine is not a good example to follow on this one.
I haven't tried the Sonic Labs products yet, but I don't think anything is so clear cut. In some setups the Sparkos are preferable. In others, the Burson or Staccato sound better. The synergy with the circuit is very important (and personal preferences too)
@@PassionforSound the thing is sparkos and Sonic use BJT transistors in the whole circuit and this is really the only way to provide a flat input to output responses the circuit is biased into Class A so that the audio has a continuous amplified active action 100% of the wave form. Now I will say that the other so called discreet class A A/B do have a good response but it’s not the class A response and it can’t be from an electrical point of view. But the others can still offer a great quality sound, it’s just important to note that this ‘great’ quality sound I’m talking about isn’t 100% of the input source it’s a modified version of the input source. So sometimes that will seem better because it could be preferable to the listener, but it’s really just different to the input source. If one was to go to the place where the big records are recorded they will find all the pre amps have most likely been Neve 1073, or Neve 31102, these amplifier modules were in most of the Neve consoles that have recorded most of the hit recorders over the years since the 60s to today. These modules 1073,1084,31102 a Neve channels are all BJT transistor amplifiers in class A mode design. And offer the ‘flat’ transparent response. This is exactly like sparkos. Sonic labs do this very similar thing to. Now the color form the records comes from the magnetic saturation from the tape, and the transformers in these decks. So what you want is a high voltage 15-20V +- and class A BJT based amplifier designed to run in Class A, Then you’ll have the most ideal representation of the record that was recorded in the big studio. Even the small records get mastered with this type of gear, so nothing escapes that hardware if it is any good sounding. Based on that, why would anyone want to bias’s the original sound source? It doesn’t make sense to do so… It cost a lot more R&D to do what Sparkos and sonic do than the others that’s for sure. Some engineers just look at the data and see some small lines on the output chart and think that doesn’t matter lol well, it may as well be in class B, if that’s the case. But audio electrical engineers know better, and want to see a flat line on the output chart. Thats what sparkos and sonic have, even from people that won’t buy them, their tests show the same response 👌
I don't doubt that the technicalities of the designs might be better, but the end result is all about what people enjoy. There are people who prefer the sound of integrated chip-based op-amps over the discrete ones and while I don't agree personally, each person is entitled to their preferences
@@PassionforSound yes true, tho it’s also really to say distortion or added EQ is what some people enjoy. I think each to their own, but in reality in a blind group test, for example 9 out of 10 people would choose class A discreet, over IC in class B, and even in my Neve console which is the best example of ICs used in high end equipment, the ICs were meant to be class A/B but they were probably class B.
It all depends on your point of reference. They're definitely neutral in tonality and have excellent clarity, but they're smoother and laid back than something like a Burson V6 Vivid or a Staccato op-amp.
You are a problem. so many people are going to be taken in by your lack of knoledge. Replacing an op amp is more likely to add distortion as the equipment is designed around the opamp inside. Most people don't have enough electronic knowledge to do this. Making a difference doesn't mean better, Every mixing desk in the audio chain has gone through hundreds of NE5532. So you put in an unsuitable Opamp in a little box in your living room, you hear some high frequency noise and think it sounds better because you paid more for it, Unless you can test an improvement you are probably making the electronics work outside of parameters and making sound worse.
Not if you ensure the op-amp you select is correct as a replacement for the stock op-amp. Then, you also need to install it the right way around. You're most likely to destroy the op-amp if you do something wrong and not the whole device, but it's still important to be careful.
@@PassionforSound your ear can't distinguish between 0,02 THD and 0,002 THD.If you think it can,that's the result of marketing based on snake oil.There's no doubt you can MEASURE the difference between them but your ear isn't a measurement device to recognize the difference.It's all in your mind! The largest quantity of snake oil lies in those discrete opamps.Only very,very bad opamps can be noticed by ear
I put 3 sparko lab op-amps in a old dac I bought for 100 dollars tube magic d2 and the difference was amazing . Now maybe a new higher end dac may not make a difference but for my cheap dac it did
@@PassionforSound I don't think that measurements are a reflection of what we can perceive, experiments have proven this time and time again. And just look at the measurements of a tube SET, compared to a Class D, and yet when you listen to it, despite its breathtaking numbers, the Class D amplifier is not as pleasant to the ear. Try it for yourself, our ears have not delivered all their subtleties. 😉
What Op-amp would you recommend for the *ASUS Xonar AE?* It has one swappable Op-amp: c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/29-132-085-V03.jpg
A lot of that will depend on the space available within the case. The Bursons are quite tall so the Sparkos might be a safer bet. Beyond that, it's all about the tonality you're looking for
@@PassionforSound Space wouldn't be an issue, since the sound card is installed at the very bottom *PCIe x1* slot on my mobo, and above that is a 3" gap (between *it,* and my graphics card). So... I think I'll go with the Bursons. Thank you!
Anyone who plans to remove an op amp from a socket should absolutely invest in a chip puller. It’s cheap and helps you safely remove the device without bending pins.
Very timely review. I’m getting a pair of bursons in soon! Very excited.
You'll love them!
For me v6 classic is great, running in the output stage of Arcam Alpha 5 CD player diy dac. Gives a detailed sound, without ever sounding harsh or bright. It doesn't sound "digital" it just sounds like music. You listen to the music, not at the gear.
It's great to be able to adjust and upgrade products so easily like that, isn't it? Glad you're enjoying the Classics
The Burson V7 Vivid is quite slow at the top end - can't compare to the OPA828.
I ended up using my Bursons for the sub base in the end where they do a very job.
For DIY: Best results by far with the SparkoS I got with not just drop in replacement but build a little seperated circuit according to the datasheet, with quality input and output decoupling capacitors added, with seperate linear power supply. Use a a DIP8 extension socket to lead the input signal from your original opamp socket to your little circuit you build yourself. It was my first time I build an electronic circuit, so with a precise (temperature regulated) soldering iron it is easy to do. Gives an Astonishing improvement of sound quality.
PS I used this in the output stage of a DAC / preamp
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing!
I'm using the Sparkos SS3601 in a phono premap and it's great for vinyl playback. It has a smooth and warmer tube sound, but no loss of detail. I agree that treble is a bit rolled off, but it works for my system, which was a tad bright.
They're a beautiful op-amp. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I bought 4 Sparkos SS3602s for my Soloist 3XP. I was experiencing the brightness on the high end that you mentioned with the stock V6 Vivids. The way you described how these op-amps change the sound was spot-on. I ended up on the same combination as you, with 2 SS3602s in the volume stage and 2 V6 Vivids in the gain stage. This combination brought out a bit of magic from the Soloist. Thank you for providing quality information and recommendations.
So glad I could help! Thanks for letting me know 🙂
Hello! I'm actually thinking about to remove that harsh top end on the soloist. Would it be better To use 4 Sparkos, or just like you mentioned. 2 sparkos on the volume stage. I always use the Power Amp mode, not sure if that relevant.
I would probably start with two in the volume stage which, from memory, remains influential over the sound even though the volume control chip is bypassed. If you buy two to begin with and the volume control isn't influential as I think it is then you'll only need two anyway - just move them across to the input stage 🙂
I tried about 15-20 kinds in the Kinki Studio M1 amp. The best was the Staccato but the Burson was good and enjoyed the Muses01 and 03 JFETs op amps where very good for non-discrete units.
Thanks for sharing your experiences
I asked and you answered. Thank you! I'm also happy that I can try your recommendations exactly with the Soloist 3x. Another informative and entertaining video, great work.
Glad you enjoyed it! Happy op-amp rolling 😁
Excellent review, especially since I just bought the Burson amp today! I didn't know about op-amp rolling before this video and now I look forward to 'playing around' with this down the line. Great.
Fantastic! Glad I could help and happy op-amp rolling when you get to it 🙂🙂
That was meee! haha Thanks for the shoutout. Can't imagine trying to roll op-amps on the GT. ☠️
Glad you were able to try the Staccato. I actually found them to be neutral instead of v-shaped, but I agree putting it at the volume stage is where it's at. It's just a slight tweak that will offset the vivids tonality a bit.
I also want to echo your thoughts on being VERY careful with op-amp swapping. I tried the sonic imagery labs op-amps and they ended up blowing one of my headphones (they weren't exactly throw away but I didn't mind losing them). After inspection, there was nothing I did wrong and there was nothing wrong with the op-amps. It's still a mystery. Too bad I didn't get to test them because they looked really good.
I'm still in two minds about op-amp rolling in the GT. Scared to mess with a very good thing 🙂
That's no good about the Sonic Imagery op-amps! Sometimes certain circuits don't work with certain op-amps due to voltage levels, etc. ☹️
I had never really thought about "rolling" Op-amps. You really have peaked my interest. Thank you!
It can be really fun and quite affordable because op-amps, unlike tubes, are fairly interchangeable across amps and even DACs
Piqued your interest as well I reckon.
I think eventually compiling an opamp "guide" would be very useful. Essentially describing what the sound signatures are for various opamps in the same device with all other things being equal in that device. Perhaps by class of opamp.
It would be a great resource for sure! While this is my secondary "hobby" and not my main job it will be very hard to find the kind of time needed, but maybe one day - that would be great!
@@PassionforSound maybe just a few more videos like this one. Also about opamps. Like best value ones for example.
@@obfuscationstation Since then I've joined a group that has tested most of the better ones.
I have a bunch of opamp collections and i can tell you their sound signatures.
@@daghetto101 Have you heard a OPA1656lD please?
The glamour video segment is so cute 😍 the inside of the Burson looks like an aerial view of a city
Glad you liked it!
Great summary of Op-amps. Have you tried the 3XP in 'headphone power amp mode', where the volume stage is bypassed and the volume is controlled by the DAC? It would be interesting to hear which Op-amp you would prefer when you only need two of them in the 3XP.
I have used it that way before, but not while rolling op-amps. A patron of the channel just tried power amp mode with op-amps removed from the volume stage and has proved that there is still signal passing through that stage, just not being processed by it so the same conclusions apply - Sparkos SS3602 in the volume stage and V6 Vivids in the input stage.
@@PassionforSound Interesting, surely the Muse chip is taken out of the equation then as the difference between the two modes on this amp is so big on my system that I don't think I could ever go back to the stock form. Burson 3XP with a Supercharger and in by-pass mode is a significantly more convincing amp than it is in its stock form (and I already liked it in its stock form).
Yes, the volume stage might still require the signal to pass through, but not be altered by the Muses chip
Nice job explaining the quality’s of the different op amps
Thank you!
Hello, that was a very complex video. It must've taken a long time to put together! And you did an amazing job on explaining everything.
I am wondering if using the Staccatos in the DAC improve the depth of the soundstage? Does any combination compares to the Schiit Bifrost 2 in terms of soundstage?
Thank you,
Good job on the video
I'm yet to find any delta sigma DAC (other than the Chord DACs thanks to their custom algorithms) that produces depth and a 3D presentation like the Schiit Multibit DACs. The Staccato op-amps in the Composer didn't really help much in that regard - I just preferred the overall sense of space (in a fairly 2D sense) and general tonality they brought to the DAC
Since your into diy headphone amps and op amp rolling I thought I would mention the whammy class a headphone amp kit at diy audio. Lots of positive reviews of it and can't go wrong with a pass labs designed amp ! Thank you for your hard work !
I'll check it out. Thanks Brandon!
I have a composer / soloist stack. I bought a pair of sparko's op amps. I liked them in the volume stage of the soloist ... until I purchased a super charger, now I am back using all v6 vivid's. Tried the sparko's in the LP stage of the composer. Tons of depth vs the vivid's wall of detail, totally lost all the special sauce though. Swapped them to volume, same but not as pronounced. I know this is an op amp video. But if you have this setup. My money was best spent purchasing a super charger. This opinion is based on He6se v1's, Focal Elegia's, Starfield's, tea's and my 42 year old ears. I appreciate all your time spent in the creation of this video ... it was definitely an undertaking!
Glad you liked the video and thank you for sharing your experiences with the op-amps! I think it's an excellent example of the fact that personal taste and product synergy will always play a part.
I have found that the Sparkos ss-3602s take about a month of solid listening for them to play in. Before then (ie: brand new) they can be kinda tipped up and sharp in the treble, IMO.
I didn't personally find that, but it is always a good idea to let devices (and our brains) settle in before making any judgements
@@PassionforSound No worries though. I don't know about Sparkos Labs recommendations (I didn't check w/ them, but theydid mellow a bit after a while) but Burson actually recommends 100hrs (or 30 days) to allow them to play in before serious evals (I got this from a Burson rep). Keep up the excellent work...
Do you believe in burn in? If yes, how long were these discrete op amps burned in before you started to compare?
I do believe in burn-in, but I find that any significant shift in sound occurs fairly early in the process.
That said, each of these were used for extended general (non-critical) listening for a few days each before doing the direct comparisons.
Both Burson and Sparkos suggest 30 days or 100 hours - at least. I own both the Sparkos SS-3602s and the Burson V6 Vivids - they both took that long to play in /burn in and sound smoother. Before then, they were both brighter/harsher/much less smooth and weren't anything special compared to IC based opamps. Now they're both crushing all the IC based opamps I have on hand.......
Amazingly comprehensive review!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the content Lachlan! between the 3XP 3GT and supercharger reviews this is just another tweak for people to make to get the sound/performance they are looking for.
I agree. The op-amps provide a more significant change to the sound, but still a tweak rather than a huge upgrade (unless you're coming from an IC op-amp). Glad you liked the review 🙂
For me I went with 4 SS3602 op amps in the 3XP and that was the best combination. I'm feeding it with a Holo Spring KTE (r2r) dac so smooth input. My primary Hps with this amp are the 1266 Phi TC which have great bass detail and impact, a slight mids dip, and a 12k peak in the treble. So the Sparkos help tame the treble peak, smooths the mids, and retain the bass impact. I'm still awaiting the supercharger so that may change for my setup so only using the standard power.
That makes sense if you're looking to pull back on the upper treble a bit. It'll be very interesting to see if the Super Charger makes enough difference that you feel the need to split the op-amps or stay all Sparkos...
@@PassionforSound I’m definitely going to try the way you have it split. I’ll report back once I receive it.
got the supercharger in tonight and boy I'm wowed... Holo Spring KTE -> 3XP + 4 sparkos + SC -> 1266 Phi TC is quite the chain. TBH I really dont' think the 3GT will be necessary for my needs. I will try the Vivids in input this weekend and try swapping out sparkos and vivids in the volume control and see what we get. I'll just say the SC really cleans up the entire signal from upper mids all the way up to 15k. I'm still getting the warmth from the sparkos but the detail in the treble is way better now. The cranberries - something else is a great album to show off the differences. All the different instruments to accompany her vocals are just so much more present and defined now.
Hi! I have the combo you know and love: Soloist 3XP with Supercharger and the Meze Elite. Would you say that the Sparkos op-amps in the volume stage are the preferred config for you for the Elites? Thinking about getting them as the final upgrade to the headphone chain
Yes, I think that's how I would set it up for the Elites. Hope you love it!
@@PassionforSound thank you!
Thanks Lachlan for the excellent review. I have the Soloist 3XP and I am going to try the two Sparkos opamps on the output as you have recommended. Do you think it would be worth trying their top end op-amp, the SS2590 instead of the SS3602?
It would be worth a try for sure! I'm yet to go down that path myself. Just be sure to check that they'll fit before you order them and maybe double check with Andrew from Sparkos that they're a straight swap into the circuit instead of the V6 Vivids.
@@PassionforSoundHi Lachlan- considering the Sparkos 33602/1 for my Burson C3P (not x version) and wondering if I should swap for buffer stage or volume stage? I have Vivids in all positions currently. For the C3P, I/V or buffer stage is dual, and LP or volume stage is single, so I can’t swap in both, thus wondering where the Sparkos will have the most impact. Thanks for any advice!
I haven't tried the C3P with swapping and I don't have one to try it with. Based on my experiences with the Soloist, the volume stage is a bit less impactful so I'd base my decision on how much you want to adjust the sound. If it's pretty close to perfect already, go with the volume stage. If you want a more significant shift away from the treble of the Vivids, go with the buffer stage.
Great video, really insightful. Current running an Aune X8 and X7s stack which i love.....would you be able to recommend an op amp for gaming? How would the ss3602 or a Burson V5i fair for gaming and music?
Both of those would do well, but the SS3602 would be the better choice of you can fit it in
Vivid v6 with aune with original power supply plug to a clean ac power..
OMG experience.. In my rig, it was vocal to die for
@PassionforSound Would placing the Sparkos in the volume stage tend to take the Soloist a little closer to the flavor of a Schiit Jot 2 in your opinion or is the Jot 2 lively engaging sound just unique to that particular amplifier?
I think the Jot 2 is a bit unique. The Sparkos op-amps will definitely smooth out the slightly enhanced treble from the Soloist so it brings it closer to the tonality of the Jot 2, but the slightly enhanced, punchy bass from the Jot 2 is impossible to replicate with the op-amps I've tried in the Soloist.
@@PassionforSound well shucks
Literally exactly the video I needed at exactly the time I needed it. Thanks!
Great news! So glad I could help!
Hi lachlan, great video, i truly enjoyed it. Couldni sum uo that your preference is the ss3602s in the volume and vivids in the inout gain stage? May i ask for your opinion about a ss3602 vs the v6 classic. Thank you
That's correct about my preference for the op-amps. I haven't used the Classics alongside the ss3602, but I found the Classics a bit too rich in the Soloist when I originally reviewed it.
Very interesting. I didn't realise there was a significant difference in sound of different op amps. It raises a whole lot of questions as to why different op amps sound different. I would love to see the frequency response, distortion response, transient response and noise performance of all these op amps.
I know you didn't ask me but, yes, there is a difference in opamp SQ - depending on the application and the component it's placed in. I have replaced opamps in my Gustard H20 headphone amp with several different ones. They each have a slightly different SQ presentation but your amp, DAC, and HP need to be revealing enough to reproduce them. There are some sites (like ASR) that, as a philosophy, don't believe in such changes outside of FR, distortion, and noise, etc, but I don't think measurements tell the complete story of how we hear. As always, YMMV.
@@Ezees23 Thanks. I value all opinions. I am looking for tests that aren't usually done that pick up that sound differences.
It would be great to see these measurements, but I think a part of the issue is that we don't fully understand yet what we're measuring for. I do think there are measurements like slew rate, intermodulation distortion and impulse response that might tell some of the story, but I've not yet seen a collection of data for a number of op-amps where we can compare the data and see how it predicts sound.
@@PassionforSound yes I'm sure the answers are out there somewhere.
yes there is a great deal of sound presentation difference but not sure it will show up on any measurement graph. Check out Sandu (soundnews) he recently did a super review of the Susvara. In his written article he does quite the comparison of hp and power amp pairings with Sus. He basically describes how differently the sound presentation is made but it doesn't show up on meaningful differences on his frequency response measurements. Which basically means that what we can measure thus far doesn't fully account for what we are hearing.
This video was very helpful for me as we share the same thoughts in regards to how the Soloist sounds with its full array of V6 Vivid op amps installed. Encouraged by this video I made the investment and recently swapped in a pair of V6 Classics on the volume control side of my Soloist 3X while retaining the V6 Vivids on the input side. About the only negative is a slight reduction in soundstage size (and it’s very slight) but I really like how it smoothed the highs, richened the mids a touch and gave a bit more weight to the bass without altering the resolution. I primarily listen to my 2021 Audeze LCD-X on my Soloist and a lot of the music I enjoy often leans to the poorly produced side of things with the treble sections on the hot side of neutral which can get fatiguing on longer listening sessions. The Classics smoothed that edge off but still kept enough air in the treble to still be just as resolving as it was with the array of Vivids.
Keep in mind these differences are subtle but definitely noticeable. Folks shouldn’t expect their Burson amp to sound like a completely different amp after the change……think of it as tweaking an EQ in a sense. For folks that find the Soloist sounds a bit analytical or on the bright side at times, swapping in the Classics (or another op amp that’s known to warm things up a touch) might just be the ticket depending on their headphones/music choices to put the sound signature in the sweet spot for your preferences.
Thanks for adding your experiences to the mix! To add further clarity for people reading this, I felt like the Classics (back when I first tried the Soloist 3XP) were a touch smoother than the Sparkos SS3602 so you can choose your flavour based on preferences: V6 Classics = more smooth, SS3602 = moderately smooth, V6 Vivid = most transparent/bright
I have rolled in v6 classics in my GT in the volume stage and had the same results vs the stock vivids. I subsequently rolled in a pair of SIL 994 opamps into the input buffer and observed a lush boost to the entire lower end of the frequency sprectrum say below 2khz. If you are still searching for a stronger sense “drive” to the lower end, try the SILs. Techno/electro music lovers take note!
I'll need to look at the SIL op-amps. Thanks for the tip!
Very detailed and informative comparison as always. Thank you 🙏🏼
My pleasure 🙂🙂
18:09 Preference. Thank You Bro for saying this. Im planning to buy a Composer and Soloist stack and im also an opamp collector/opamp rolling enjoyer. Now i know which part is the Input Stage and Volume Stage.
On 25:58. May I know which of the socket is the Input and Volume Stage of the composer? Is it the top or the bottom part or maybe just tell what socket is on the one that is close to volume knob/front panel. Thank you.
I don't recall which is which off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure it's shown on the Burson website. Just check out the pics on the Composer page.
@@PassionforSound It doesnt. But thank you for the response. I will email them once again. Great Video by the way. Helpful to others. Happy Listening.
Thanks! Great video! I have the Soloist & Composer, and want a smoother overall sound. Will try 8 Sparkos SS3602
That will be a nice tweak for the sound you're after IMO. Good luck!
I think i am late to the party. Your video is very useful. It's like having a reference book :P I recently got a Burson timekeeper 3ir (using it with Digaudio evoke for desktop) and output for headphones and i have got Burson soloist 3xp which comes with V6 vivid upamps. I was reading about SS3602. I am looking for tube like sound(without tubes) if there is such thing, bit more natural and vocals . If there difference will be more profund compared to v6. Do i need to get 4 of these to do this or only a pair? I really appreciate your kind help as always
Hi Kam, for the Soloist 3XP you can use 2 or 4 op-amps. The Sparkos won't make it sound tubey, but a bit smoother than the Vivids. It's also potentially worth considering the V6 Classics too.
@@PassionforSound thank you.
Sparkos gave me a amazing upgrade to my dx7pro. Measures great but sure remembered the fake glaring tremble before, tremble turned detailed airy (That silent area in tracks / microphone hiss noise is actually airy 50%misinterpreted by a inferior opamp.), mids turned double detailed, bass is faster and tighter thus not for bassheads. In short it sounds real, the reverb and air of actual live music.
That's great to hear! They're excellent op-amps
If I knew how to solder, I'd put the SS3602 over the Burson Audio V5i Dual in my XDUOO XD-05Plus since all the songs are punchy, fun and really great to listen to.
does changing the op-amp change the output impedance of the dx7 pro?
It shouldn't do I think
I bought a douk audio u3 mini and a burson v5i according to your suggestion and the result is really outstanding!!! For the price, i doubt you can get anything better than this.
It's a pretty cool setup, isn't it? Glad you like it 🙂🙂
@@PassionforSound for sure. I never had the idea the difference would be so big. I also ordered a muses02 to put in another small unit dac I have. I actually prefer these smaller chips, as they are more versatile, being able to fit almost any unit. Those 3 seem excellent but are too big for what I have. Maybe I'll try the opa627, also according to your suggestions on other videos. They're actually a lot cheaper now and may be the best value out of all of them. Thanks a bunch!
I love the Muses02 and OPA627 both for when a discrete op-amp is too big. Remember that the OPA627 is a mono chip so you need two on an adapter to replace dual chips
This is the best opamp comparison on UA-cam! I have the bursons Class & Viv and Staccato for my Composer. I must have watched this video 10 times!
Because I am currently ordering a VTV amp and having to choose which opamps I want it with. This helps me a lot in choosing especially in regards to the Sparkos and how they compare to my current opamps.
If you are ever up to doing another comparison, would be great to hear your opinion on the Sonic imagery, New Class D and the super expensive Weiss.
Thanks
Thanks for suggesting the additional op-amps! Glad you liked this video 🙂🙂
Hi, between Burson Audio V6 Vivid and V6 Classic, which has more tweeter or produce more fatigue?.
@@slaving300 The Vivid has more of what you describe in regards to accentuated details in the treble area. It doesn’t automatically translates into fatigue but if you have a system that is bright and prone to that, the Vivid will accentuate it over the Classic.
The Vivid is a little crisper/brighter IMO
I ordered the Sparkos, I'm going to put them in my Aiyima A07 power amp. They might also fit in my DAC but not sure.
Enjoy!
Great review, I enjoyed the contrasting op-amps. Owning the composer/soloist, I feel like I have a complete picture. Appreciate all the tips too.
Glad it was helpful!
Hello, I own a burson conductor x3 like you. I get sparkos to use the same as you in the volumen. However the become very hot. Near 90 Celsius degree. Do you have the same issues? Thanks
I haven't checked the temperature of them, but that seems quite extreme. Maybe try them in the other pair of sockets and see if they are the same there.
Just ordered the Soloist 3XP and a pair of Arya Stealths. Will later replace my DAC, should i chose the Composer over the Bifrost 2 due to the Op-amp possibilities you think?
Nope 😉
The Bifrost beats any configuration of op-amps you'll put in the Composer IMO. It's down to the decoding stage in the DACs so the output stage won't fix the delta sigma limitations in the Composer. The Composer is a lovely DAC. The Bifrost 2 is just better
@@PassionforSound thanks, I admire your dedication!
Thank you 😊
@@PassionforSound What about the option to get the Soloist running in Power Amp mode, would you need the Composer for that?
I wouldn't personally bother with power amp mode unless the DAC is providing really high quality volume control. I felt like using the Composer to control the volume took something away from the Composer/Soloist stack
I have a pair of V6 classic Burson op-amps. I going to dig them up and try them in the volume stage with the vivids in the Soloist. Thanks, great vid .
Interesting! Do make sure they're dual versions and not singles.
Hope you like the results!
Hello Sir I have an Aune X8 DAC that Thomas reviewed on UA-cam. It using a simple plate on the bottoms of the DAC . Opp amps came with the DAC
Hi Joe, I'm not sure if you're just stating that or asking something. Can you clarify?
Thank you for the great vid! I really appreciated the very in-depth info and methodologies. I do have a question about how everything compared to the original op amp? Why didn’t you use the original as the control?
Glad you liked it! It's been a long time since I recorded this, but I'm pretty sure I did use the stock op-amp (V6 Vivid) as the control.
Oh, I see! I went over your video again. I didn’t realize it came with the V6 Vivid at the stock. I will rephrase it. Why didn’t you use an IC Op Amp like a 5532 or 2107 as a control since those are more available than the $50+ Op Amps. Have you compared them before? What was your opinion in comparison to the discrete ones? If you ALSO covered this in your video then I’m super dense and I apologize!
No, I didn't cover that - you're not dense 😁
The reason I didn't discuss IC op-amps is because the surrounding circuit is quite important in the sound of an op-amp. If the amp came with IC op-amps, it would have made sense, but my emphasis here was more on rolling from the stock setup in the Soloist and Composer to the Sparkos and Staccato op-amps. Apologies if that was unclear!
Awesome. Will you also happen to list a bunch of DACs and/or AMPs that have rollable (swappable) op-amps? Be nice to see what's out there in the market. I only know of the Bursons that you have and my XDUOO XD-05Plus (but has certain limitations)
Some people have mentioned certain Gustard models, but I'm not aware of many others either - sorry!
Is Fx-audio Tube-03 a single or double? Also are there other cheap preamps where i can roll OpAmps?
I don't know that one - sorry. The best bet is to see what chip is currently in the device and then search on whether it is a dual or mono chip. Depending on where you're located or how much shipping you're happy to pay, I have two Burson Fun headphone / pre-amps here that I no longer need and am planning to sell. They're made for op-amp rolling.
@@PassionforSound It has dual chips.. so i believe I will have to use some kind of adapter to fit 2 mono in one dual socket so thats a total of 4 mono chips in this preamp.. which may be cost prohibitive. I rather use 2 dual chips. So much to learn.. I'm not a electronics guy.
Edit: I live in the US. How much are you asking for your Burson preamp? Which model?
It's the Burson Fun that I've got and I've got two of them to make it easier to compare op-amps. I'd sell them both for $150 AUD plus postage.
If you're after adapters for single to dual op-amps, do a search for Brown Dog op-amp adapters. From memory they're not that expensive
@@PassionforSound your offer is generous but at this time I'm getting my feet wet in the tube & opamp rolling world. I already have an amp atm so maybe I'll have to wait.
Question: Is the V6 vivid or the stacatos a significant upgrade over the muse02? How different do they sound?
No problems! As for your question, yes, both the V6 Vivid and Staccato op-amps are a significant upgrade over the Muses02 (which is already great). The biggest improvement you can expect is in the soundstage size and depth. I haven't compared them directly to comment on tonality
Sparkos labs SS3602 are best sound I have ever owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Tight fit into ASUS STX II, but with risers it fits.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I love how u explained/review everything. I am now following ur channel. Thank u Sir!
Hi Passion for Sound! Would you tell me please if changing the op amps makes sense if I only use dx7 just as a dac with fixed xlr volume (without the preamp section)? Thank you!
I haven't played with the DX7 to know for sure, but op-amps are part of the output stage from the DAC so it should make a difference
Thank you for your answer! 👍
I haven't found any videos which cover(sorry if you did and i missed it) power supply needs for each discrete opamp which needs more power supply than regular opamps. I've been told i have to increase my power supply, but never by how much or how i figure out how that all works since i don't know anything about that or soldering and would need to take exact info to my local tech who likewise doesn't seem very versed in this kind of stuff and doesn't know digital at all and on top of it speaks broken english.
I have 32x i/v single opamp converters for each dac chip(16 per channel).
I have 2x single ended output opamps(idk if single or double, i assume single since there's one on the left channel board and 1 on right channel board).
I also have a buffer stage on each channel board that uses 1x opamp each right before the outputs.
I also have an optoisolator section that looks like 3x opamps on each channels board.(they may or may not be opamps?
I've used the Burson, Sparkos and Staccato discrete op-amps in lots of different devices and never needed to worry about power supplies. Is the device you're using an amp with swappable op-amps or are you modifying a soldered circuit?
its a vintage multi bit pcm63 dac with a soldered circuit board but i want to say the opamps are not soldered but inserting pin@@PassionforSound
That's getting a little esoteric for my knowledge. If the op-amps are easily identifiable, you could always email the company who's op-amps you want to use (e.g. Burson or Sparkos) and check with them for compatibility.
Just wondering how do the Burson Classics compare to the OPA627?
It's a good question, but I don't have any here to compare right now. I think the Classics should be a lot like the OPA627 only better.
My one main question would be; Can you get almost the same results from EQ? They all sound like they are more similar than different. Basically, is this another change/device to change the sound without using EQ?
EQ will only ever alter frequency response whereas you'll find that op-amps change things like soundstage size, instrument separation, etc.
EQ can have a more dramatic impact on frequency response so they're for different purposes IMO
very useful and informative video. thanks for taking the time to make it
My pleasure
I have the smsl SU-9n Dac, it says it takes three dual opa1612’s. Can I upgrade those op amps in this Dac? If so, which ones would you recommend? Thanks.
Hi, I have a Composer like the one you used in the video. Which is the volume pair and which is the output pair?
Of the top of my head, the volume pair is the pair to the right of the chassis when facing the front of the amp. It's also shown on the Burson website on the Composer page. 🙂
As always, thank you for the excellent content and interesting topics.. Following your end-game op amp topologu for the Burson stack which of the Composer/Soloist woukd have a greater impact (from the stock vivid)?
If I was only changing the op-amps in one of those it would be the two SS3602 going into the volume stage of the Soloist for sure
Aiyima released a new "Pro" version of their successful tpa3255 A07 and the thing came with 5 opamp sockets... Oh my! Aiyima has really given us no definitive stage information on 2 sockets. We know one is input/volume.. The next is tone... Then two "math" sockets... And finally one for the output to their line out.
So... I'm thinking sparkos on the input/volume and then the Burson in the tone location. There is no tone defeat switch so you have to 12 o'clock these.... So perhaps the Burson should go into that tone stage...
I want to try the Burson in my Aune X8 to. I ditched the SMSL DO100 for the Aune and putting an SS3602 in there really improved things. But I am seeing Thomas & Stereo tall about the vivid v6 with high praise. I would need a special stand for the Aune with a cutout for the Burson... Oh so tall! I can t even imagine a staccato in the Aune... Definitely need to build a butcher block stand with a cutout for these things.
what would be the break in time approximately of these opamps ?
I've not noticed significant changes in the sound of op-amps so if there is break-in, you'll be beyond any audible changes after the first couple of hours I think. I find that some headphones can take a week or so to settle, but I'm yet to find an electrical circuit that takes more than a couple of hours to settle.
100 hours. But not really night and day difference.
Will the Staccato fit in the Geshellli JNOG2 Socketed?
It will be a bit tight I think. You might squeeze them in, but I haven't checked
No, you have 26 mm in height. Staccato is 30mm
Thanks for confirming
I like the way the sparkos sounds on the soundblaster x7 alot more than the k9 pro I had to turn the volume knob all the way up on the k9 pro usb dac just to get the similar sound as I was getting on the soundblaster x7 + sparkos
That's really interesting. The K9 Pro lacks some sense of dynamics in the amp stage so maybe that's what you're noticing because the Sparkos are great in that regard.
@@PassionforSound I ordered another x7 and added a warranty on it so just gonna buy some more sparkos op amps and enjoy the ride my first x7 from 2015 finally died out the mic and power still work but it won't output any sound and the application in windows hangs and I think that is due to the faulty x7
This is great Lachlan. I own the ss3602's and Burson has sent me the v6 Vivids to evaluate inside my Gustard H20 HP amp, in exchange for my honest impressions (and with an option to buy them). I have played them in (or burned in) for about ~100 hours or so and will start to commit the evaluation to post sometime this week. I will compare them with the other opamps I have on hand (ne5532's, opa2134's, Muses 8920d's, lme49720's, and Sparkos ss3602's). I am going to post my impressions on various, TBD sites. I will keep you all posted on my progress.
That's great, Eric. It will be interesting to see which you prefer and why. Both are excellent in their own ways IMO
update?
@@Viewer13128 I wrote a longer update but it somehow got erased. Here's the shroter version:
The Sparkos are my "high-end analog playback" opamps. The offer seemingly limitless deep bass and "unrestrained" dynamics. They're revealing and "holographic" with very natural timbre. They are excellent spatially with excellent staging and very good "depth" and "distance" presentation in every dimension (ie: HxWxD).
The Bursons are my "squeaky clean digital studio" opamps. They excel in clarity and cleanness with midrange and treble that is very revealing and "transparent" as opposed to the Sparkos more laid back "holographic" presentation. The bass is more "nip/tuck/clean" than the Sparkos more unrestrained/dynamic presentation.
I am keeping both but which one you prefer will depend on your use case. The Sparkos work better for me in my HP setup (Gustard H20 discrete balanced amp/Hifiman Arya Stealth HPs - with the Sparkos more laid back - but still revealing presentation). The Bursons in use for my speakers setup that leans a little warm in the treble (Gustard preamp/Niles SI-275 amp/ Energy RC-10 speakers) - their treble clarity, focus, and forwardness compared to the Sparkos is welcomed to bring in slightly more treble focus to the speakers. Both are still excellent and you can't go wrong with either one - they both outshine all of the IC based opamps I've tried in the Gustard's preamp section (ie: LME49720, Muses 8920Ds, OPA2134Ps, NE5532s). It's much more cost effective and satisfying to be able to change out opamps when you want a change of pace rather than to change out whole components in your chain.
I'll also leave you a useful link:
www.head-fi.org/threads/the-opamp-thread.432749/; It was one of the threads I used to gather more info.
Hope this whole reply is useful to you in some ways.......
@@Ezees23 tyvm!
Lachlan, when I first came across this video, I didn't have any components that use (swappable) op-amps, so I was not following what you were talking about. But I just got a Geshelli Labs J2S - their new version of the J2 that has the 3 op-amps in sockets, and can be ordered with either the OPA1656 (what the J2 uses), or OPA1612 (what the A2 and E2 headphone amps use, I think?) - or the Sparkos SS3602.
My J2S has a SS3602 in the single ended stage, and a pair of OPA1612 in the balanced.
So now your comparison is very tangible - the J2 with its OPA1656 is a bit more forward and has more emphasis on details, and can get a touch too bright (in my stereo system). With a linear power supply, the J2 is *amazing* - I strongly prefer it to the Ares II; even with the new 12th Anniversary firmware; and much better than the Bifrost 2 and 2/64.
And now the J2S with the SS3602 is smoother than the J2, but with plenty of details and layering. The dimensionality you mention is definitely a thing. And the *bass* quality and dynamics of the SS3602 is phenomenal. The J2 is far better than the Ares II and better too, than the Bifrost (in either form) *with* the LPS. I am definitely using the LPS with the J2S - there is no going back to the stock switch mode PS.
I hope you can review the J2S (and the J2 AKM), and maybe try some different op-amps. I have some OPA627 dual mono modules (less than $6 each from a Canadian eBay seller!) on the way. And I am getting a second J2S with the SS3602 in the balanced output.
I don't think the Bursons will fit in the J2 case. The Staccato you had *might* fit in the single ended socket? But I doubt they would fit in the balanced?
By the way, the Geshelli Archel 3 Pro that is imminent uses the Sparkos SS2590 - which is really cool! And I believe they will soon be working on an Erish 3 Pro ...
Thanks for sharing all this, Neil! I didn't realise the J2S was going to allow for op-amp rolling. That's cool!
I will be receiving an A3 Pro in the near future and can't wait to try it!
@@PassionforSound The J2S fits the Sparkos SS3602 and any DIP8 modules. But the Burson is too tall, though they make a ribbon cable that could connect it at least. The most compact Stacatto *might* fit in the single ended socket? But I tend to think they won't fit in the balanced sockets?
The Staccato op-amps are pretty chunky, but maybe the most compact configuration? Not sure without checking specific measurements :)
@@PassionforSound The Burson units are small footprint (i.e. very slim) but obviously taller than the other options. The Sparkos SS2590 is the opposite - relatively much larger foot print, but not tall. The SS3602 is closest to a monolithic chip, and only a tiny bit larger than modules that are SOIC chip(s) mounted on a DIP8 plug. The Staccato units are in 3 different packages, with their heat sinks in various orientations.
The Burson 35mm long DIP8 extension cable may be *very* useful for trying these, maybe?
Yes, the cable could be interesting. With the Staccatos, they're tricky because they're almost as tall as the Bursons and, depending on which version you get, have a footprint as big or bigger than the Sparkos.
Cool cool, where are the sound clips?
I generally don't do sound recordings because they're misleading by the time they go through UA-cam and then whatever source chain each person is running.
For a better opamp of d50s, do You have a suggestion or better stick by default? Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really like the Muses02 in the D50S 🙂
@@PassionforSound excelent information to improve my system. Thanks a lot!!!!!!
My pleasure!
Funny enough I actually needed this review as I just bought a gustard p26 preamp and the opamps on it are great but replaceable. It's still shipping but this gives me time to watch this and decide thank you 😊
Awesome! It's great having the ability to tweak the sound and improve gear if it's using IC op-amps to start with.
Thanks so much @Passion for Sound for taking the time to review these op amps, and all your other vids as well. @V1ralBlack, I'd recommend upgrading the op amps on the p26. I have tried both the burson v6 vivids and the Sparkos SS3602s in my p26, and found the Sparkos to be cleaner sounding - more detailed. They're both great but I'd rate the vivids a 7/10 and the Sparkos 9.5/10. I only use speaker setup so head fi might be a diff story. Best of luck with your op amp rolling. :)
@@georgedrakopoulos2906 Thank you for the advice. I'll go with the sparks ss3602s then. 😊
Even with a surface mount adapter, the Burson 5i will fit in most Single Rack Height components.
Yes. The 5i is a great compromise between something like the V6 and a traditional IC op-amp
Thanks for a Deepdive review
My pleasure!
I put vivid on asr emitter!Amazing sound !
Haha. That's a unique use
Nice one
Well elaborated mate! Good job!
Glad you liked it!
I smell a rematch opportunity on the voyager and the new v7 s. 🙌
I tend to avoid rolling on the GT level amps because they have SO many op-amps, but there'll definitely be a rematch somewhere with the V7s!
This was a really great review. 👍
So glad you liked it!
What a detailed video. Thank you.
My pleasure. I'm glad it helped.
I've got another one coming soon with the new V7 op-amps from Burson.
@PassionforSound I have the geshelli j2 socket so the change will be easy.
I just happened to stumble on this episode it didn't notify my of this one and you know me "mr op amp" can't believe I missed this one. I have had the best sound on some setups with a $2 op amp compared to the expensive ones. I can't tell you how right you are when it comes to a particular setup.
System synergy is so important, isn't it?
@@PassionforSound Unbelievable so. I would have a sprarkos then put in a Burson then maybe the OPA627 then end up with a $2 TL082 that sounds amazing compared to the $80 op amps.
@@PassionforSound Also like you found you can take the same 2 op amps and reverse them in the "chain" and get a different synergy.
@@PassionforSound It's scary to think with that being said, your setup may still have room for improvement STILL, and only costing $2, haha. It will drive you nuts if you let it, haha.
I also wanted to add real quick for clearance issues they make risers almost like tall 8 pin adapters and they make 2 adapters attached with wires so for example the tall burson can be layed down flat for clearance.
Aune X8 Magic DAC . Please review
I'll see if I can find a demo unit somewhere
Wish someone would make an OPAMP like these but with at least 1 or 2 thru hole components so we can at least mod them even if it is 1 cap, resistor or diode that I could put a GE version in.
I think size is the likely challenge with that, but it would be fun for DIYers
Often better results are obtained with two nxp 5532a/bpa put in parallel...
unfortunately it is difficult to find them
has anyone used the Staccato OPAmp in the playmate2?
I haven't, but you should find similar results to what I described here.
Wouldn't installing these OP amps put a strain on the power supply ?
When you see some models equipped with radiators, you can legitimately ask yourself the question of their power consumption !
It's a fair point that they might draw more power, but it could also be about maintaining a certain operating temperature or perhaps a less heat-efficient design. I've certainly had no issues with them
@@PassionforSound Thank you for your reply!
When you replace the opamp for the i/v stage. with a discrete version with BJT input you will also hear the major improvement.
Can you explain a bit more about the BJT input?
@@PassionforSound bipolar junction transistor , drives current better than voltage drivers like jfet. I can send you a pair if you want.
@@PassionforSound bipolar junction transistor
Drives current better.
Thank you a ton!
My pleasure!
2:04: An integrated circuit "has its own set of compromises". I suppose, hard to get high values of LRC and power needed for Class A but still enough room for switched capacitors for high value and accurate R. Can connect external LRCs. The advantage of ICs is vastly superior transistor matching and can choose optimal channel width and length on FETs. Discrete op-amp comprise with less ideal, much larger and more expensive transistors and they're almost half of the discrete components.
I question your bias when you shill expensive products you get for free. $10 op-amp ICs and audio cables just too cheap to recommend. Try double blind testing with less made up adjectives with links for us to download the samples to avoid UA-cam audio compression.
Those who have tried the SPARKOS LABS SS2590 unanimously agree that it is definitely the best of all AOP ! 😉
They're an excellent op-amp for sure
@@PassionforSound Beware, it's not easy to install, the cards are much bigger, the pinout different, knowledge and soldering iron and meticulousness required. 😉
Yes, that's why I haven't explored that option yet. I don't have the time at this point in my life for fiddly tasks 🙂 Hopefully in the future though
You can Order them yet soldered on mono or dual Dip8 support
It's more about making them fit and having to craft flexible adapters to mount them sideways, etc.
Use an insertion tool if you can as pins are easy to bend..
This is true. Some op-amps in particular can bend super easily.
Maybe some sound samples will be clearer than many minutes of words..
Sound samples can be misleading because they're filtered by my recording setup, UA-cam's audio compression and then the quality of each person's playback chain. By the time it reaches you, a lot of the subtleties after gone. (I say this having tried in the past to demonstrate via recordings)
While i do love the level of detail you went into for the video, i feel like you stretched a 10 minute video to 30 minutes for the algorithm
That doesn't make much sense, James. The algorithm doesn't reward longer videos that people don't watch through so stretching a video wouldn't help views if there were no value to keep people watching.
I also don't actually think about the algorithm when I plan my videos - I think about the gear I'm interested in and that I think others will be and then I think about what I would want to know if I were watching.
I would like to try the dual SS2590 Pro on the Soloist but there isn't enough space to fit them side by side without modifications. Great video and shirt BTW.
Bummer that they won't fit ☹️
Glad you liked the video and t-shirt
Did you try Burson Audio "35mm Extension Lead x 2"?
Thanks
My pleasure 🙂
should have had some type of grounding. You could have easily zapped a component or device!
could you possibly expand upon this a bit more? I was nervous when changing out my op amps as I have carpet in my listening room. I was worried about static electricity from the carpet and not being grounded potentially zapping one of my components.
I generally ground myself before handling anything electronic (that's open and/or the components themselves). I can't honestly say if I did or didn't for the video - more focussed on the getting the recording right.
My understanding is that ICs are the most prone to static discharge damage so most of what I was doing should have been safe and I've never had issues with discrete op-amps, but it is good advice and mine is not a good example to follow on this one.
hes whispering , behind the camera his wife has a shot gun
Haha. Not quite - just a baby sleeping next door
Sparkos is the only choice and the others have nothing on them electronically. I will say Sonic labs would be the only thing that compares to sparkos
I haven't tried the Sonic Labs products yet, but I don't think anything is so clear cut. In some setups the Sparkos are preferable. In others, the Burson or Staccato sound better. The synergy with the circuit is very important (and personal preferences too)
@@PassionforSound the thing is sparkos and Sonic use BJT transistors in the whole circuit and this is really the only way to provide a flat input to output responses the circuit is biased into Class A so that the audio has a continuous amplified active action 100% of the wave form. Now I will say that the other so called discreet class A A/B do have a good response but it’s not the class A response and it can’t be from an electrical point of view. But the others can still offer a great quality sound, it’s just important to note that this ‘great’ quality sound I’m talking about isn’t 100% of the input source it’s a modified version of the input source. So sometimes that will seem better because it could be preferable to the listener, but it’s really just different to the input source.
If one was to go to the place where the big records are recorded they will find all the pre amps have most likely been Neve 1073, or Neve 31102, these amplifier modules were in most of the Neve consoles that have recorded most of the hit recorders over the years since the 60s to today. These modules 1073,1084,31102 a Neve channels are all BJT transistor amplifiers in class A mode design. And offer the ‘flat’ transparent response. This is exactly like sparkos. Sonic labs do this very similar thing to.
Now the color form the records comes from the magnetic saturation from the tape, and the transformers in these decks.
So what you want is a high voltage 15-20V +- and class A BJT based amplifier designed to run in Class A,
Then you’ll have the most ideal representation of the record that was recorded in the big studio.
Even the small records get mastered with this type of gear, so nothing escapes that hardware if it is any good sounding.
Based on that, why would anyone want to bias’s the original sound source?
It doesn’t make sense to do so…
It cost a lot more R&D to do what Sparkos and sonic do than the others that’s for sure.
Some engineers just look at the data and see some small lines on the output chart and think that doesn’t matter lol well, it may as well be in class B, if that’s the case.
But audio electrical engineers know better, and want to see a flat line on the output chart. Thats what sparkos and sonic have, even from people that won’t buy them, their tests show the same response 👌
I don't doubt that the technicalities of the designs might be better, but the end result is all about what people enjoy. There are people who prefer the sound of integrated chip-based op-amps over the discrete ones and while I don't agree personally, each person is entitled to their preferences
@@PassionforSound yes true, tho it’s also really to say distortion or added EQ is what some people enjoy. I think each to their own, but in reality in a blind group test, for example 9 out of 10 people would choose class A discreet, over IC in class B, and even in my Neve console which is the best example of ICs used in high end equipment, the ICs were meant to be class A/B but they were probably class B.
This is weird. I find the sparkos clear and neutral. Not smooth and laid back
It all depends on your point of reference. They're definitely neutral in tonality and have excellent clarity, but they're smoother and laid back than something like a Burson V6 Vivid or a Staccato op-amp.
BTW, the huge ring at 263hz in the recording is distracting me of you talking about very picky sound details in the amps.
Why do you talk so GenTeal?
At about the time I was recording this review, I was being careful to not wake my son who was sleeping in the room next door.
@@PassionforSound No worries
So, you want to talk about tone only with really processed music. No measurements, no references, nothing natural. I quit listening in the middle.
Too much verbiage
You are a problem. so many people are going to be taken in by your lack of knoledge. Replacing an op amp is more likely to add distortion as the equipment is designed around the opamp inside. Most people don't have enough electronic knowledge to do this. Making a difference doesn't mean better, Every mixing desk in the audio chain has gone through hundreds of NE5532. So you put in an unsuitable Opamp in a little box in your living room, you hear some high frequency noise and think it sounds better because you paid more for it, Unless you can test an improvement you are probably making the electronics work outside of parameters and making sound worse.
Is there a chance of damaging the equipment?
Not if you ensure the op-amp you select is correct as a replacement for the stock op-amp. Then, you also need to install it the right way around. You're most likely to destroy the op-amp if you do something wrong and not the whole device, but it's still important to be careful.
This is too much snake oil...
Op-amps have plenty of measurable information about why they perform differently. Not sure how you think that's snake oil
@@PassionforSound your ear can't distinguish between 0,02 THD and 0,002 THD.If you think it can,that's the result of marketing based on snake oil.There's no doubt you can MEASURE the difference between them but your ear isn't a measurement device to recognize the difference.It's all in your mind! The largest quantity of snake oil lies in those discrete opamps.Only very,very bad opamps can be noticed by ear
I put 3 sparko lab op-amps in a old dac I bought for 100 dollars tube magic d2 and the difference was amazing . Now maybe a new higher end dac may not make a difference but for my cheap dac it did
That's great to get such an upgrade for a cheap device
@@PassionforSound I don't think that measurements are a reflection of what we can perceive, experiments have proven this time and time again. And just look at the measurements of a tube SET, compared to a Class D, and yet when you listen to it, despite its breathtaking numbers, the Class D amplifier is not as pleasant to the ear. Try it for yourself, our ears have not delivered all their subtleties. 😉
A waste of dosh.
What Op-amp would you recommend for the *ASUS Xonar AE?* It has one swappable Op-amp: c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/29-132-085-V03.jpg
A lot of that will depend on the space available within the case. The Bursons are quite tall so the Sparkos might be a safer bet. Beyond that, it's all about the tonality you're looking for
@@PassionforSound Space wouldn't be an issue, since the sound card is installed at the very bottom *PCIe x1* slot on my mobo, and above that is a 3" gap (between *it,* and my graphics card). So... I think I'll go with the Bursons. Thank you!
Perfect. Enjoy!