Citrine gives buffs to fire rate, attack speed and movement? Wisp remains the better powerhouse but i get into that. You count a conpanion in. I run lvl caps too and i don't need panzer. You should be clear where you set the line. As a team support citrine MIGHT be better but in which content, at which point? - for lvl cap runs your builds should have energy economy in mind - a panzer viral procs are not consistent enough for some, also we still have charm on smeeta. There are many ppl thats still prefer a resource boost here and there - in lvl caps you usually run something that can proc viral mostly. Also primers are a thing. - there aren't many weapons that have gun CO incarnon style that can have more than 3 stacks, so having many status effects on an enemy would be good usually on melee CO and some incarnons. - i mostly run lvl cap with randoms, nobody relies there on any one. If you run lvl cap, you should build your defense accordingly anyway - speed is key in disruption, so thats a clear loss for citrine - wisp has innate breach surge, so a free helminth on wisp. Roar, nourish? If we talk about buffing your mates and energy. So, again your claim can be debated. The ppl i run with just wants speed. Why wisp is better as a powerhouse is easily explained. Tho i don't think you are saying citrine is better overall still some points: - i can skip speed mods if i want an extra slot on my weapons if i dont need it. Or i have juicy fire rate and can run melees without atk mods or gram without a riven. Or if i have a riven with atk speed but the weapon has low riven dispo i can still skip fury mods on many melees. - i dont need to get into her 2nd abilty i guess. Again, innate breach surge which is also still a nice cc tool besides dmg. With felarx i can go with xatas whisper, i can run roar, eclipse, nourish etc.. - shock motes is a free status proc too besides, again, galv. Aptitude or savy have very limited stacks.
First off, thank you for the sincere take... Two, thank you for the bullet points Citrine gives buffs to fire rate, attack speed and movement? *Didn't claim she did, what I did imply was that her buffs are better raw damage, which they are, and provide a more usable buff. Most people aren't priming. META primer isnt even nukor or epitaph... its the Kompressa, twin grakatas, or prisma twin gremlins but WFCCs haven't mentioned it yet so noone cares. Hell I sometimes use a rattleguts with a riven that I rolled for encumber procs and it does better demo priming then epitaph/nukor. Wisp remains the better powerhouse but i get into that. You count a conpanion in. I run lvl caps too and i don't need panzer. You should be clear where you set the line. As a team support citrine MIGHT be better but in which content, at which point? - for lvl cap runs your builds should have energy economy in mind *citrine makes a carpet of health and energy, - a panzer viral procs are not consistent enough for some, also we still have charm on smeeta. There are many ppl thats still prefer a resource boost here and there *This is personal preference, sometimes I want the rng on SE myself. - in lvl caps you usually run something that can proc viral mostly. Also primers are a thing. * primers are definitely a thing, and citrine drastically lowers what a new player needs to do. 1 christal can give a shitton of statuses making encumber an option on primers and not necessarily required. Would you to have a little more fun and flexibility in builds and not need that minmax stuff. - there aren't many weapons that have gun CO incarnon style that can have more than 3 stacks, so having many status effects on an enemy would be good usually on melee CO and some incarnons. *there are plenty of weapons that have MutliCO, but even if additive a min of 5 extra statuses from citrine 3 gives a hell of a buff, and easy reds. - i mostly run lvl cap with randoms, nobody relies there on any one. If you run lvl cap, you should build your defense accordingly anyway *I think this is the main difference in build philosophies. The only time I've done a cap run with randos, was when we all refused to leave LOL. Everyother time has been premades with clannies/alliance m8s. I can rely on my people to not be morons and we will coordinate builds, like only running 1 brief respite. - speed is key in disruption, so thats a clear loss for citrine *admittable disruption isn't the main goal of our runs, its just kinda what everone wants to do at that moment. Sure disruptions are on the table, but if people wanna just do VC and survival I'm down for that also. Cascade is also really good, and conjunction survival is good too, its not all about disruptions runs and max efficiency. Games are supposed to be fun, not a chore, and minmaxed builds can be fun, but im at the point where if it 1-2 shots level cap whats the point of going harder? People can also mod for sprint speed and operator exists... dont necessecarily need wisp for speed. - wisp has innate breach surge, so a free helminth on wisp. Roar, nourish? If we talk about buffing your mates and energy. *indeed breachsurge is innate to wisp and would allow another good damage helminth, roar is good for sure and I think a shitton of people are running nourish right now. But ultimately the average player isn't running meta setups, they are playing their favorite frames and circuit forces you into choices. Not ever player has all frames, mods, arcanes, weapons etc, and citrine massively favors this rng of teammates in pub runs. Wisp would come out ahead of captures and extractions, and citrine would win mobile defense and defense, survival both are strong but citrine would be better for pub runs and wisp would be better for people with better ammo mutations. A newbro isnt gonna have the ammo economy and wisp will straight up fuck up a hemmorage/internal bleeding uses day, citrine wouldn't hurt either group and would allow enough damage, dr, hp/s to easily run to 1hr 2hr survival pub runs. Not everyone uses auto clickers or is young enough to spam melee. So citrine helps here too. So, again your claim can be debated. The ppl i run with just wants speed. Why wisp is better as a powerhouse is easily explained. Tho i don't think you are saying citrine is better overall still some points: - i can skip speed mods if i want an extra slot on my weapons if i dont need it. Or i have juicy fire rate and can run melees without atk mods or gram without a riven. Or if i have a riven with atk speed but the weapon has low riven dispo i can still skip fury mods on many melees. *I agree that wisp players get to enjoy additional flexibility in their builds but there are times your teammates dont want those buffs. Elec mote can fuckup kill rates on hyper farms. Green mote and fk up mods that need low attack speed and wear your teammates out faster, or over whelm their ammo economy and cause massive over killing. Red mote is great riiiiiight up until you get one shot while citrine would give players the chance to react and gives a great hp/s when ehp is considered and stacking with cold ward makes citrine give hp/s, DR, and a nice armor buff for great ehp. Easily makes teammates 20x tankier where wisp can only give 2-3x ehp but huge hp/s. Admittably wisp would pull ahead in fissure buff situations because citrine is DR capped, but only in specific situations. - i dont need to get into her 2nd abilty i guess. *Is a good ability. *Death is the ultimate CC but you can't play the game if your dead. Edit: one other thing to note. Citrine's buffs can be done from behind or in the same room while with wisp you need to be infront or standing on them. Her DR range is affinity, so gear wheel phos for affinity range buff and get meme range on it. With a high range on 3 it can easily go into other rooms when placed in even medium sized rooms and then go further if allies are in range and shooting into other rooms. The situations that her buffs can be applied are something your gonna have to play around, but its something only you have to deal with and your team donest have to hunt down motes for.
@Gambled you see, now I understand more where you draw the line. Simply as a team support, she has on paper the upper hand, clearly being less selfish than wisp, I can see that. Here some thoughts I have regarding your response. - yes, you usually skip shock motes in sp camps but doesn't citrine also slow down enemies? This is a question I have since it feels like it when I have a citrine in my team. I myself only touched citrine when I played circuit or to give helminth a nice gemussy. Regardless tho, outside of defense or survival, shock motes are still welcome here and there especially since it prevents you getting crowded fast too while fighting a spawned acolyte, demos, thrax n closing rifts etc..Also for new players it is enough to prevent them getting killed in star chart lvl missions and able to run around freely, enjoying the motes buffs, the fun factor with the speed, cc and health still increases too. if you run conjunction, is the affinity range enough to buff ppl in the next room? Cuz they are a bit more apart than just being next door. If we walk as a coordinated team, you will cover a room with 2 players. Placing one fused reservoir in the right corner, with me running archon stretch, it should be an easy way to buff your mates on the other side of the map. Also, you talk about tankiness, iirc, conjunction reaches lvl cap in 90mins or so? Yea, neither wisp nor citrine will help with tanking there. Generally speaking you could say you want new players to buff their tankiness and I see many wisps, not including myself tho, that runs too high ability strength and make ppl overcap atk speed or cause ammo economy problems. You talk about citrine having an easier time buffing her mates cause of her using the affinity range. If I play disruptions, I myself know where to place the motes, so my mates can always reliably refresh the motes buffs while having the motes placed so that nullifiers won't destroy it (usually).
@Gambled (I know I write too much, but as a petty wisp main you left me no choice) 1. Are we talking about random player setups? Are we talking about coordinated teams? Do you have specific mission types in mind? This is what I mean by drawing the line. Is there really a clear winner? One is better than the other, depending on how, what and who you run with. Arbitration, many sorties, exterminate, capture, sabotage, rescue or just cracking relics, speed motes WILL get you faster clearing times overall cuz you speed up your mates. And there aren't many frames buffing movement and attack speed/fire rate while cc and buffing survivability without tea bagging.(Yea, I know for relics you go zum zum titania go sunder brr but the overall team support is the topic here right) 2. I get my teams usually from recruiting chat, I don't play on pc and on console getting together via discord is usually not a thing for many. If you run lvl cap, which 90% of ppl DOES NOT, they will have to build around energy economy and shieldgating. Again, citrines DR won't do much there in the long run. Yes, having 20x the tankiness can be nice but ppl don't build their frames with a citrine buffing their defense so, its either shieldgating, DR, rolling guard etc. what players DON'T build into their frames is movement speed. You only have limited slots to mod your weapons, tons of weapons you would like to have more fire rate and have no ammo problems like braton, cinta, felarx, arca plasmor..you get the gist. If you run slash melee in higher sp you should prime and if I get my team via recruiting chat I don't run a build with the mindset that citrine primes my enemies for me, even if we got one in the team. But yes, a citrine will increase team dps in that regard, I won't deny facts, please don't get me wrong there. 3. (After that i shut up I promise😅) You see where I am getting it. Having more speed and a damage buffing helminth on top is something a citrine will not bring to the table. I slap nourish on wisp and also buff my mates with energy multiplier and VIRAL. (What was DE thinking...) I understand you having preferences and/or, like many, build their weapons with the right fire rate/atk speed and a wisp causing issues there can become a pain. If you have a teammate like me (😌) he will consider that. I run my wisp not higher than 75% mote strength in fissures because of the double strength buff.
@@FluffyWing07 - yes, you usually skip shock motes in sp camps but doesn't citrine also slow down enemies? This is a question I have since it feels like it when I have a citrine in my team. I myself only touched citrine when I played circuit or to give helminth a nice gemussy. *Modding can fix this, Mecha set. The aura and mods turn those grouped enemies into a nice pool to get nuked, and the Mecha aura (if stacked 4x... never gonna happen, no one uses it, can provide the highest single buff to a dot) will transfer applied dots to enemies in a 30m(can shrink by not equipping a mod off the set) aoe. Gonna have to run a bit for loot ngl. -Regardless tho, outside of defense or survival, shock motes are still welcome here and there especially since it prevents you getting crowded fast too while fighting a spawned acolyte, demos, thrax n closing rifts etc..Also for new players it is enough to prevent them getting killed in star chart lvl missions and able to run around freely, enjoying the motes buffs, the fun factor with the speed, cc and health still increases too. *when comparing citrine to wisp, i think the elec motes are least of the concern tbh since citrine gives elec motes. I do like how citrine distributes the elec procs though... its staggered so the cc feels a little better in that regard but not so much its worth splitting hairs over. For the new players the speed and "fun" gonna have to agree with you that wisp is notably from fun to have on the team, that speed boost can be adictive and is something a newer player can easily appreciate, same as the hp and hp/s. What I am saying for citrine though is that what you are actually wanting from those abilities when compared to wisp citrine comes out ahead. Middle progress and late game players want ONESHOT protection that dr and small hp/s from citrine goes a long long way when heat/tox dots from eximus are the things that kill you. So the comparison is an ehp comparison and citrine wins this by a land slide. The Dr is stronger then the hp boost for ehp and gives players a chance to recover hp on their own. Most players are running either blessing setups or 300ish hp energize setups rn and the dr makes these super forgiveable. Panzer hp/s recovery on the farm can get insane, literally 100shp/s. The regen from the hp motes is obviously helpfull, nut not the reason for the mote. On regular star chart, wisp might be the way though since everything is so weak they cant oneshot. -if you run conjunction, is the affinity range enough to buff ppl in the next room? Cuz they are a bit more apart than just being next door. If we walk as a coordinated team, you will cover a room with 2 players. Placing one fused reservoir in the right corner, with me running archon stretch, it should be an easy way to buff your mates on the other side of the map. Also, you talk about tankiness, iirc, conjunction reaches lvl cap in 90mins or so? Yea, neither wisp nor citrine will help with tanking there. *with fosfor beacon spam affinity range can reach 400m, but thats consumable, other wise the range on 2 is 50m. Citrine 3 can get a huge radius as well, and remember the range is just where the player has to be to get the crystal assistance, not the enemy. hmm I think you're talking about circuit, because conjunction doesn't cap in 90. Cascade? Cascade might be wisps strength tbh because you can dual fused resevoir 1 in each area, while citrine would be better in her 1 area but wouldnt be helping the other, so good point! This depends on the team comp though on how much of a negative this is, but you cant really choose a team when its randos. Also, there are team comps that can tank level cap pretty effectively. It's gotta be coordinated though. -Generally speaking you could say you want new players to buff their tankiness and I see many wisps, not including myself tho, that runs too high ability strength and make ppl overcap atk speed or cause ammo economy problems. *Yeah the strength on a wisp can be gradually increased for fused builds once you get past about halfway in the regular star chart, but once SP go full tilt only. You can also just not run green for longer missions like defense. Generally the ammo econ issue is mostly an issue in longer missions, blow through missions like captures/exterms arent a big hassel. I just find there is a increase of willingness to stay longer with newbros when they see they are murdering everything when a fully build wisp is on the team in fissures where people interact and on sorties. You talk about citrine having an easier time buffing her mates cause of her using the affinity range. If I play disruptions, I myself know where to place the motes, so my mates can always reliably refresh the motes buffs while having the motes placed so that nullifiers won't destroy it (usually). *I feel like this part of the argument relies heavily on the other players and how much you want the stats that make this build work. Wisp wants a bit of range, i run her 145, but too much and it gimps mod space or another stat. Citrine gets a free pass here because of affinity, and she wants more range anyway, in my run I had 175 but I feel she would be comfortable with 200/230... just a tad more but not alot. Its also a play style difference, I get to control when the teammate gets the buff, not them. So if they run into a nully bubble, and im outside, they dont get nerfed at all where it could be a small ohshit moment for them if buffed by motes.
@@FluffyWing07 (I know I write too much, but as a petty wisp main you left me no choice) *it's fine I write alot too, don't ever appologize about sharing something your passionate about here. My title was inflamatory, and this conversation is good. Don't worry I'll get you playing citrine along side wisp soon enough LUL. 1. Are we talking about random player setups? Are we talking about coordinated teams? Do you have specific mission types in mind? This is what I mean by drawing the line. Is there really a clear winner? *Well this was definitely a part I didn't explain. Wisp was always my goto support for random groups and cap runs with new to me players, so uncoordinated and coordinated. She was also the frame I would put a player that wants to do their first level cap on. Mission type would be nonspecific. The clear winner for matured/aware/competant players is citrine imo, if they know what she does they can get a massive boost from her in terms of raw damage/ehp. Wisp would be the clear winner for newer players because the buffs are so blatant and easy to under stand. More hp, run faster, shock motes are very visual. While a more experienced player will know that citrine gives 10x ehp and more with cold ward, and a ton of galv stacks... these buffs aren't gonna register for new players. One thing is for sure though, people can understand wisp better because she has been around for so much longer, if people get used to citrine then her buffs can shine because people will know how to use them. One is better than the other, depending on how, what and who you run with. Arbitration, many sorties, exterminate, capture, sabotage, rescue or just cracking relics, speed motes WILL get you faster clearing times overall cuz you speed up your mates. And there aren't many frames buffing movement and attack speed/fire rate while cc and buffing survivability without tea bagging.(Yea, I know for relics you go zum zum titania go sunder brr but the overall team support is the topic here right) *Citrine can't compete on speed so wisp would be the clear winner, again it depends on how much you value speed as soon as speed becomes less important citrine starts to compete and then outcompete wisp. If you got the case of the zoomies you can always strength wisp with speed volt for meme speed clears of regular sc liths. 2. I get my teams usually from recruiting chat, I don't play on pc and on console getting together via discord is usually not a thing for many. If you run lvl cap, which 90% of ppl DOES NOT, they will have to build around energy economy and shieldgating. Again, citrines DR won't do much there in the long run. Yes, having 20x the tankiness can be nice but ppl don't build their frames with a citrine buffing their defense so, its either shieldgating, DR, rolling guard etc. *Ah I see. Im pc and have discord up on another monitor. Wait, so does this mean that players on console don't generally play with others on cap runs? I know console gameplay is different from pc, but is this something thats rare? I almost exclusively do cap runs with people I know. Recruit chat is for farming a specific relic and NW missions for me. Hmm, I can see how this would be a bit off putting now that I think about it. what players DON'T build into their frames is movement speed. You only have limited slots to mod your weapons, tons of weapons you would like to have more fire rate and have no ammo problems like braton, cinta, felarx, arca plasmor..you get the gist. If you run slash melee in higher sp you should prime and if I get my team via recruiting chat I don't run a build with the mindset that citrine primes my enemies for me, even if we got one in the team. But yes, a citrine will increase team dps in that regard, I won't deny facts, please don't get me wrong there. *I didn't realize you were a console player, this might change my opinion of citrine once crossplay effects clan's members. I know swapping between operator and movement is more difficult on console, and I think this might be a bigger contributing factor to the difference then we are both giving credit to. Priming should be expected in disruption runs, expecially at cap, and I can see how wisp might be better for console's more restricted movement. I don't have that limitation on PC, so console limitations aren't something im especially congizant of. You have shown me a hole in my consideration of citrine vs wisp ill have to ask my alliance about, and ill have to educate myself on more.
I always saw wisp as a more self focused support. She shares her abilities but her design was always 1-man-army. I'm glad you see what I was telling the people I played with back when I got citrine (I feel not so dumb now). I was very glad to see that citrines' 1 and 2 apply to the team when you're together no matter where you are in the marching order. With wisp you have to be in front of everyone if you're not camping for everyone to get the motes and enjoy your breach... Which, if you're the first, it's likely that you're the one who will be killing everything too and it's not like people are going to know you're using breach every time. That's why I see wisp as more self centered. Just wanna mention that it's obvious that up to citrine DE avoided giving abilities that give damage reduction based on enemy kills which is something I was waiting for, and, finally!
Citrine is definitely a very strong frame, still Wisp can hardly be beaten for level cap content with invisibility, comfier shieldgating and superior burst damage, if we are talking solo runs. In a squad, you just couple em both and get everything. The biggest downside for Citrine is her stationary playstyle, requiring you to be in range of your crystal to unlock the deeps. 90% DR is sadly useless when talking approaching the level cap, but coupled with her passive def outshines wisp in base steel path content.
Yeah I can agree about the DR maybe not being "levelcap" worthy, but we did the cap run with a chroma and citrine aura tank, we didnt have problems until about 3k honestly... then the tank failed in spectacular fashion. That being said I have been testing my 4 with cold ward and not gonna lie... shit feels pretty good. Citrine scales to 12.3k armor with mecha set cold ward stack and 99% dr and gets the 90% DR aura with 326% armor increase aura too. Havent had to res teammates because of it. It it an active tank though.
@@Gambled Saying wisp is better for level cap is very much true considering literally just wisp’s passive makes her pretty much immortal and if you are in trouble you can cast her 2 real quick and you are immortal. That being said, if citrine truly is a better frame for lower leveled content, wouldnt that straight up make her better than wisp since most of warframe takes place in lower leveled content anyways? Most players have never even thought of going past thousands aside from trying to get to level cap or just doing an activity such as duviri.
The invis only helps wisp in that situation, while it can be a massive help, the total utility offered by citrine to way too high from all of her abilites. Her playstyle is significantly more engaging and rewarding to the team compared to drop motes and run around. Admittably wisp would be far superior for newer players to use as a "baby tenno's first support frame".
@@Gambled I get where you want to go with that argumentation, but the harsh reality of the game is, it doesn't have any game modes where utility like that has a place. Warframe is ultimately about speed, mobility and damage and the scaling works in such a way, that any defensive mechanic, that straight up doesn't make you invulnerable or untargettable is pretty much useless. In a perfect world, we would have fleshed out game modes, where all those abilities get a place to shine, but currently it just isn't. The only thing I want from my support team mate is massive DPS buffs, because THAT is ultimately the highest form of defense and utility in Warframe and Wisp offers just that with a maxed out Roar buff and an insane fire rate buff coupled with the most broken ability in the whole game, Breach Surge.
Citrine is absolutely superior in every way. The only downsides I could think of are that she’s arguably harder to farm, and she requires more brain power to learn to play. Subsume Breach Surge onto her and you don’t even need to choose anymore. I personally run Arcane Blessing and Arcane Grace on her and I never had to worry about shield gating even once in base Steel Path.
My first thought with her was cold ward/ mecha set and she has about 12300 armor... it seems a bit much but its another aura of defense. 90%dr from 2 and hp/s and now armor increase too.
@@Gambled I use Adaptation on her but I’m not sure if it stacks with her 2, haven’t really tested, if it does though, then it’s up to 99% damage reduction, which is really nice. The Mecha set sounds quite interesting, blasting the whole room with elements, that would work very well with the Galvanized mods. It’s a shame that it’s kinda hard to justify using a kubrow instead of the foxes and cats in most situation atm. I can’t wait to see what DE came up with the pets rework. The Duviri kubrow skin looks really nice.
@@FusingSeven479 This is part of the reason im testing cold ward with citrine rn. Citrine armor gets to about 12-14k with cold ward and mecha set, making kubrows survive just fine in sp. After about 20 eso runs, I find that my 3 is stealing kills with the mecha set and causing the statuses to all stack to 10x or higher if they are uncapped. Cant wait for the update.
best support is chroma change my mind. with just trinit's helmenth he can give : damage+ armor, from vex armor either hp , armor, or damage on swap, from trinity's ablity heal and status immunity. i gave a volt 97 dr just from vex alone.
@@Gambled because i am a simple man who cannot handle doing anything that requires more than killing I guess i would take rhino with nourish/strip ability, epitaph and some backup primary
I feel like Citrine got much more focused in on being a support frame then Wisp did. Wisp only really has two useful abilities and one alright abilty being will o wisp. Citrine uses her entire kiy and I think subsuming anything onto her is a waste
Pillage is a good replace for her ult if you don’t like it but I have a build for her base abilities and a pillage build for when I’m not using weapons that can hit the crystals easily
im very late to this video but as for the "wisp cant give you energy" part, what about archon stretch and shock motes? probably doesn't work with teammates but its still energy. sorry if you mentioned it and i missed it.
very true, and you are right, I run archon stretch on all my wisp setups and just forma appropriately... and you are correct, citrine can coat the floor in energy and hp orbs.
I see where you getting at, but wisp can be pretty much be played for every game mode and still beein usefull and make full use of her kit while citrine only be usefull for stationary task and the biggest drawback for me in comparison to wisp is that's theres no movement speed increase so kinda only use able in defense like mission or with a pre-made team for stationary camp
One thing i'd say on the citrine vs wisp arguement is that wisp has a way easier time with subsumes, citrine kinda wants all 4 of her abilities while wisp has one easy throwaway ability. But I dont disagree with citrine being super useful as a whole.
Wouldn't this work in favor of citrine though? Having 4 usefull abilities that you dont want to get rid of, unlike wisp? I find getting rid of her 4 mainly for not having the junk all over the screen, being the better helminth. Been using cold ward on her for a bit and the ehp you give to the team is utterly insane.
@@Gambled I think for newbros i'd tend to agree but I think if a frame has 4 very useful abilities instead of 3 its harder to kinda just slot-in whatever the team needs. Like if you want citrines crit buff from her 4 i'd find it more annoying to helminth it away for something the team needs cause its more like youre swapping one good power for another one but for wisp her 4 is kinda useless all things considered in high levels so just slotting in a helminth that the team needs would feel easier i'd think cause its more of just an upgrade to your kit rather than having to swap one good ability for another one like with citrine. Atleast thats how I feel, I think they are both excellent frames all in all, just my two cents on the topic
All four of a frames abilities should be the goal. Helmith exists cos DE took the easy way out of reworking frames. A complete kit out of the gate should be applauded.
Citrine is so nasty in duviri if you get the any decree that affects status. Sometimes she just clears the screen for me if i have the status spread decree.
I've been trying more flexible builds with her and I've gotten her ehp up to about 25mill and pet way higher armor to 12.3k with cold ward which would double dip on pet giving 3.26x3.26 more armor maybe pet can survive 1ks then... but its a active tank with 44s rotations... should make her really tanky like baruuk
Laughs in Trinity. Seriously though, you have to build for status for Citrine to be decent on higher lvl content while wisp... just works... Slap 400+ strength infused reservoirs onto the ground and whole team has massive flat hp boost, cc and speed. Everyone benefits from this. Wisp is much better for random squads, while Citrine is a specialist.
@@spectralspectra2282 team comp... citrine, baruuk, gara are 99.9% from abilities before armor and adaptation. God forbid you have a chroma on the team with that juicy armor bonus. Wisp would be dank also.
@@Gambled dam that seems like a lot of setup, I didn't think you'd be able to survive 9999 enemies even with them doing 0.1% damage I thought you'd have to survive exclusively on shield gate, invisibility like wisp or Octavia, immortality like revenant or just protective slinging all the time lol
@@UnknownRexFr, my friend plays Ember w/ Breach Surge and does nearly all the damage in Steel Path while I run around as Titania collecting the gems. He doesn’t really mind the mode, but since everyone else hates it, he gets loads of plat from selling Secondary Encumber lol
problem is WF is a solo game and supports are not needed and for the usual pub/solo play Citrine is meh, Wisp has easy invis/invul, HP stacking is just bad and cant scale (all the clueless wisp players maxing HP and dying when levels go beyond 150)
yeah straight up hp stacking is only effective at lower levels when they should actually be ehp stacking. Honestly im not so sure about the no need for supports thing. Can be a great buff for sure, but can also help massively when running into newbros that are trying to hard push content.
Inaros with blood alter is a really stupid playstyle... really really stupid... but effective for about level 500 sp. EHP regen is insane because its missing hp.
lets be fair here. Its one cast with an augment and it doesnt give reload, and that cc is to 5 enemies, but it does give 2 damage buff to sol gate also.
@@noahedenborg4221 speed mote doesnt give reload m8, and the elc mote has a limited number of triggers at once but can obvious continue to trigger with kills, while citrine 3 is limited by procs/s, didnt say sol gate was good but it does get buffed by motes
Citrine gives buffs to fire rate, attack speed and movement? Wisp remains the better powerhouse but i get into that. You count a conpanion in. I run lvl caps too and i don't need panzer. You should be clear where you set the line. As a team support citrine MIGHT be better but in which content, at which point?
- for lvl cap runs your builds should have energy economy in mind
- a panzer viral procs are not consistent enough for some, also we still have charm on smeeta. There are many ppl thats still prefer a resource boost here and there
- in lvl caps you usually run something that can proc viral mostly. Also primers are a thing.
- there aren't many weapons that have gun CO incarnon style that can have more than 3 stacks, so having many status effects on an enemy would be good usually on melee CO and some incarnons.
- i mostly run lvl cap with randoms, nobody relies there on any one. If you run lvl cap, you should build your defense accordingly anyway
- speed is key in disruption, so thats a clear loss for citrine
- wisp has innate breach surge, so a free helminth on wisp. Roar, nourish? If we talk about buffing your mates and energy.
So, again your claim can be debated. The ppl i run with just wants speed.
Why wisp is better as a powerhouse is easily explained. Tho i don't think you are saying citrine is better overall still some points:
- i can skip speed mods if i want an extra slot on my weapons if i dont need it. Or i have juicy fire rate and can run melees without atk mods or gram without a riven. Or if i have a riven with atk speed but the weapon has low riven dispo i can still skip fury mods on many melees.
- i dont need to get into her 2nd abilty i guess.
Again, innate breach surge which is also still a nice cc tool besides dmg. With felarx i can go with xatas whisper, i can run roar, eclipse, nourish etc..
- shock motes is a free status proc too besides, again, galv. Aptitude or savy have very limited stacks.
First off, thank you for the sincere take... Two, thank you for the bullet points
Citrine gives buffs to fire rate, attack speed and movement?
*Didn't claim she did, what I did imply was that her buffs are better raw damage, which they are, and provide a more usable buff. Most people aren't priming. META primer isnt even nukor or epitaph... its the Kompressa, twin grakatas, or prisma twin gremlins but WFCCs haven't mentioned it yet so noone cares. Hell I sometimes use a rattleguts with a riven that I rolled for encumber procs and it does better demo priming then epitaph/nukor.
Wisp remains the better powerhouse but i get into that. You count a conpanion in. I run lvl caps too and i don't need panzer. You should be clear where you set the line. As a team support citrine MIGHT be better but in which content, at which point?
- for lvl cap runs your builds should have energy economy in mind
*citrine makes a carpet of health and energy,
- a panzer viral procs are not consistent enough for some, also we still have charm on smeeta. There are many ppl thats still prefer a resource boost here and there
*This is personal preference, sometimes I want the rng on SE myself.
- in lvl caps you usually run something that can proc viral mostly. Also primers are a thing.
* primers are definitely a thing, and citrine drastically lowers what a new player needs to do. 1 christal can give a shitton of statuses making encumber an option on primers and not necessarily required. Would you to have a little more fun and flexibility in builds and not need that minmax stuff.
- there aren't many weapons that have gun CO incarnon style that can have more than 3 stacks, so having many status effects on an enemy would be good usually on melee CO and some incarnons.
*there are plenty of weapons that have MutliCO, but even if additive a min of 5 extra statuses from citrine 3 gives a hell of a buff, and easy reds.
- i mostly run lvl cap with randoms, nobody relies there on any one. If you run lvl cap, you should build your defense accordingly anyway
*I think this is the main difference in build philosophies. The only time I've done a cap run with randos, was when we all refused to leave LOL. Everyother time has been premades with clannies/alliance m8s. I can rely on my people to not be morons and we will coordinate builds, like only running 1 brief respite.
- speed is key in disruption, so thats a clear loss for citrine
*admittable disruption isn't the main goal of our runs, its just kinda what everone wants to do at that moment. Sure disruptions are on the table, but if people wanna just do VC and survival I'm down for that also. Cascade is also really good, and conjunction survival is good too, its not all about disruptions runs and max efficiency. Games are supposed to be fun, not a chore, and minmaxed builds can be fun, but im at the point where if it 1-2 shots level cap whats the point of going harder? People can also mod for sprint speed and operator exists... dont necessecarily need wisp for speed.
- wisp has innate breach surge, so a free helminth on wisp. Roar, nourish? If we talk about buffing your mates and energy.
*indeed breachsurge is innate to wisp and would allow another good damage helminth, roar is good for sure and I think a shitton of people are running nourish right now. But ultimately the average player isn't running meta setups, they are playing their favorite frames and circuit forces you into choices. Not ever player has all frames, mods, arcanes, weapons etc, and citrine massively favors this rng of teammates in pub runs. Wisp would come out ahead of captures and extractions, and citrine would win mobile defense and defense, survival both are strong but citrine would be better for pub runs and wisp would be better for people with better ammo mutations. A newbro isnt gonna have the ammo economy and wisp will straight up fuck up a hemmorage/internal bleeding uses day, citrine wouldn't hurt either group and would allow enough damage, dr, hp/s to easily run to 1hr 2hr survival pub runs. Not everyone uses auto clickers or is young enough to spam melee. So citrine helps here too.
So, again your claim can be debated. The ppl i run with just wants speed.
Why wisp is better as a powerhouse is easily explained. Tho i don't think you are saying citrine is better overall still some points:
- i can skip speed mods if i want an extra slot on my weapons if i dont need it. Or i have juicy fire rate and can run melees without atk mods or gram without a riven. Or if i have a riven with atk speed but the weapon has low riven dispo i can still skip fury mods on many melees.
*I agree that wisp players get to enjoy additional flexibility in their builds but there are times your teammates dont want those buffs. Elec mote can fuckup kill rates on hyper farms. Green mote and fk up mods that need low attack speed and wear your teammates out faster, or over whelm their ammo economy and cause massive over killing. Red mote is great riiiiiight up until you get one shot while citrine would give players the chance to react and gives a great hp/s when ehp is considered and stacking with cold ward makes citrine give hp/s, DR, and a nice armor buff for great ehp. Easily makes teammates 20x tankier where wisp can only give 2-3x ehp but huge hp/s. Admittably wisp would pull ahead in fissure buff situations because citrine is DR capped, but only in specific situations.
- i dont need to get into her 2nd abilty i guess.
*Is a good ability.
*Death is the ultimate CC but you can't play the game if your dead.
Edit: one other thing to note. Citrine's buffs can be done from behind or in the same room while with wisp you need to be infront or standing on them. Her DR range is affinity, so gear wheel phos for affinity range buff and get meme range on it. With a high range on 3 it can easily go into other rooms when placed in even medium sized rooms and then go further if allies are in range and shooting into other rooms. The situations that her buffs can be applied are something your gonna have to play around, but its something only you have to deal with and your team donest have to hunt down motes for.
@Gambled you see, now I understand more where you draw the line. Simply as a team support, she has on paper the upper hand, clearly being less selfish than wisp, I can see that. Here some thoughts I have regarding your response.
- yes, you usually skip shock motes in sp camps but doesn't citrine also slow down enemies? This is a question I have since it feels like it when I have a citrine in my team. I myself only touched citrine when I played circuit or to give helminth a nice gemussy.
Regardless tho, outside of defense or survival, shock motes are still welcome here and there especially since it prevents you getting crowded fast too while fighting a spawned acolyte, demos, thrax n closing rifts etc..Also for new players it is enough to prevent them getting killed in star chart lvl missions and able to run around freely, enjoying the motes buffs, the fun factor with the speed, cc and health still increases too.
if you run conjunction, is the affinity range enough to buff ppl in the next room? Cuz they are a bit more apart than just being next door. If we walk as a coordinated team, you will cover a room with 2 players. Placing one fused reservoir in the right corner, with me running archon stretch, it should be an easy way to buff your mates on the other side of the map. Also, you talk about tankiness, iirc, conjunction reaches lvl cap in 90mins or so? Yea, neither wisp nor citrine will help with tanking there.
Generally speaking you could say you want new players to buff their tankiness and I see many wisps, not including myself tho, that runs too high ability strength and make ppl overcap atk speed or cause ammo economy problems.
You talk about citrine having an easier time buffing her mates cause of her using the affinity range. If I play disruptions, I myself know where to place the motes, so my mates can always reliably refresh the motes buffs while having the motes placed so that nullifiers won't destroy it (usually).
@Gambled (I know I write too much, but as a petty wisp main you left me no choice)
1. Are we talking about random player setups? Are we talking about coordinated teams? Do you have specific mission types in mind? This is what I mean by drawing the line. Is there really a clear winner?
One is better than the other, depending on how, what and who you run with. Arbitration, many sorties, exterminate, capture, sabotage, rescue or just cracking relics, speed motes WILL get you faster clearing times overall cuz you speed up your mates. And there aren't many frames buffing movement and attack speed/fire rate while cc and buffing survivability without tea bagging.(Yea, I know for relics you go zum zum titania go sunder brr but the overall team support is the topic here right)
2. I get my teams usually from recruiting chat, I don't play on pc and on console getting together via discord is usually not a thing for many. If you run lvl cap, which 90% of ppl DOES NOT, they will have to build around energy economy and shieldgating. Again, citrines DR won't do much there in the long run. Yes, having 20x the tankiness can be nice but ppl don't build their frames with a citrine buffing their defense so, its either shieldgating, DR, rolling guard etc.
what players DON'T build into their frames is movement speed. You only have limited slots to mod your weapons, tons of weapons you would like to have more fire rate and have no ammo problems like braton, cinta, felarx, arca plasmor..you get the gist. If you run slash melee in higher sp you should prime and if I get my team via recruiting chat I don't run a build with the mindset that citrine primes my enemies for me, even if we got one in the team. But yes, a citrine will increase team dps in that regard, I won't deny facts, please don't get me wrong there.
3. (After that i shut up I promise😅)
You see where I am getting it. Having more speed and a damage buffing helminth on top is something a citrine will not bring to the table. I slap nourish on wisp and also buff my mates with energy multiplier and VIRAL. (What was DE thinking...)
I understand you having preferences and/or, like many, build their weapons with the right fire rate/atk speed and a wisp causing issues there can become a pain. If you have a teammate like me (😌) he will consider that. I run my wisp not higher than 75% mote strength in fissures because of the double strength buff.
@@FluffyWing07
- yes, you usually skip shock motes in sp camps but doesn't citrine also slow down enemies? This is a question I have since it feels like it when I have a citrine in my team. I myself only touched citrine when I played circuit or to give helminth a nice gemussy.
*Modding can fix this, Mecha set. The aura and mods turn those grouped enemies into a nice pool to get nuked, and the Mecha aura (if stacked 4x... never gonna happen, no one uses it, can provide the highest single buff to a dot) will transfer applied dots to enemies in a 30m(can shrink by not equipping a mod off the set) aoe. Gonna have to run a bit for loot ngl.
-Regardless tho, outside of defense or survival, shock motes are still welcome here and there especially since it prevents you getting crowded fast too while fighting a spawned acolyte, demos, thrax n closing rifts etc..Also for new players it is enough to prevent them getting killed in star chart lvl missions and able to run around freely, enjoying the motes buffs, the fun factor with the speed, cc and health still increases too.
*when comparing citrine to wisp, i think the elec motes are least of the concern tbh since citrine gives elec motes. I do like how citrine distributes the elec procs though... its staggered so the cc feels a little better in that regard but not so much its worth splitting hairs over. For the new players the speed and "fun" gonna have to agree with you that wisp is notably from fun to have on the team, that speed boost can be adictive and is something a newer player can easily appreciate, same as the hp and hp/s. What I am saying for citrine though is that what you are actually wanting from those abilities when compared to wisp citrine comes out ahead. Middle progress and late game players want ONESHOT protection that dr and small hp/s from citrine goes a long long way when heat/tox dots from eximus are the things that kill you. So the comparison is an ehp comparison and citrine wins this by a land slide. The Dr is stronger then the hp boost for ehp and gives players a chance to recover hp on their own. Most players are running either blessing setups or 300ish hp energize setups rn and the dr makes these super forgiveable. Panzer hp/s recovery on the farm can get insane, literally 100shp/s. The regen from the hp motes is obviously helpfull, nut not the reason for the mote. On regular star chart, wisp might be the way though since everything is so weak they cant oneshot.
-if you run conjunction, is the affinity range enough to buff ppl in the next room? Cuz they are a bit more apart than just being next door. If we walk as a coordinated team, you will cover a room with 2 players. Placing one fused reservoir in the right corner, with me running archon stretch, it should be an easy way to buff your mates on the other side of the map. Also, you talk about tankiness, iirc, conjunction reaches lvl cap in 90mins or so? Yea, neither wisp nor citrine will help with tanking there.
*with fosfor beacon spam affinity range can reach 400m, but thats consumable, other wise the range on 2 is 50m. Citrine 3 can get a huge radius as well, and remember the range is just where the player has to be to get the crystal assistance, not the enemy.
hmm I think you're talking about circuit, because conjunction doesn't cap in 90. Cascade? Cascade might be wisps strength tbh because you can dual fused resevoir 1 in each area, while citrine would be better in her 1 area but wouldnt be helping the other, so good point! This depends on the team comp though on how much of a negative this is, but you cant really choose a team when its randos. Also, there are team comps that can tank level cap pretty effectively. It's gotta be coordinated though.
-Generally speaking you could say you want new players to buff their tankiness and I see many wisps, not including myself tho, that runs too high ability strength and make ppl overcap atk speed or cause ammo economy problems.
*Yeah the strength on a wisp can be gradually increased for fused builds once you get past about halfway in the regular star chart, but once SP go full tilt only. You can also just not run green for longer missions like defense. Generally the ammo econ issue is mostly an issue in longer missions, blow through missions like captures/exterms arent a big hassel. I just find there is a increase of willingness to stay longer with newbros when they see they are murdering everything when a fully build wisp is on the team in fissures where people interact and on sorties.
You talk about citrine having an easier time buffing her mates cause of her using the affinity range. If I play disruptions, I myself know where to place the motes, so my mates can always reliably refresh the motes buffs while having the motes placed so that nullifiers won't destroy it (usually).
*I feel like this part of the argument relies heavily on the other players and how much you want the stats that make this build work. Wisp wants a bit of range, i run her 145, but too much and it gimps mod space or another stat. Citrine gets a free pass here because of affinity, and she wants more range anyway, in my run I had 175 but I feel she would be comfortable with 200/230... just a tad more but not alot. Its also a play style difference, I get to control when the teammate gets the buff, not them. So if they run into a nully bubble, and im outside, they dont get nerfed at all where it could be a small ohshit moment for them if buffed by motes.
@@FluffyWing07
(I know I write too much, but as a petty wisp main you left me no choice)
*it's fine I write alot too, don't ever appologize about sharing something your passionate about here. My title was inflamatory, and this conversation is good. Don't worry I'll get you playing citrine along side wisp soon enough LUL.
1. Are we talking about random player setups? Are we talking about coordinated teams? Do you have specific mission types in mind? This is what I mean by drawing the line. Is there really a clear winner?
*Well this was definitely a part I didn't explain. Wisp was always my goto support for random groups and cap runs with new to me players, so uncoordinated and coordinated. She was also the frame I would put a player that wants to do their first level cap on. Mission type would be nonspecific. The clear winner for matured/aware/competant players is citrine imo, if they know what she does they can get a massive boost from her in terms of raw damage/ehp. Wisp would be the clear winner for newer players because the buffs are so blatant and easy to under stand. More hp, run faster, shock motes are very visual. While a more experienced player will know that citrine gives 10x ehp and more with cold ward, and a ton of galv stacks... these buffs aren't gonna register for new players. One thing is for sure though, people can understand wisp better because she has been around for so much longer, if people get used to citrine then her buffs can shine because people will know how to use them.
One is better than the other, depending on how, what and who you run with. Arbitration, many sorties, exterminate, capture, sabotage, rescue or just cracking relics, speed motes WILL get you faster clearing times overall cuz you speed up your mates. And there aren't many frames buffing movement and attack speed/fire rate while cc and buffing survivability without tea bagging.(Yea, I know for relics you go zum zum titania go sunder brr but the overall team support is the topic here right)
*Citrine can't compete on speed so wisp would be the clear winner, again it depends on how much you value speed as soon as speed becomes less important citrine starts to compete and then outcompete wisp. If you got the case of the zoomies you can always strength wisp with speed volt for meme speed clears of regular sc liths.
2. I get my teams usually from recruiting chat, I don't play on pc and on console getting together via discord is usually not a thing for many. If you run lvl cap, which 90% of ppl DOES NOT, they will have to build around energy economy and shieldgating. Again, citrines DR won't do much there in the long run. Yes, having 20x the tankiness can be nice but ppl don't build their frames with a citrine buffing their defense so, its either shieldgating, DR, rolling guard etc.
*Ah I see. Im pc and have discord up on another monitor. Wait, so does this mean that players on console don't generally play with others on cap runs? I know console gameplay is different from pc, but is this something thats rare? I almost exclusively do cap runs with people I know. Recruit chat is for farming a specific relic and NW missions for me. Hmm, I can see how this would be a bit off putting now that I think about it.
what players DON'T build into their frames is movement speed. You only have limited slots to mod your weapons, tons of weapons you would like to have more fire rate and have no ammo problems like braton, cinta, felarx, arca plasmor..you get the gist. If you run slash melee in higher sp you should prime and if I get my team via recruiting chat I don't run a build with the mindset that citrine primes my enemies for me, even if we got one in the team. But yes, a citrine will increase team dps in that regard, I won't deny facts, please don't get me wrong there.
*I didn't realize you were a console player, this might change my opinion of citrine once crossplay effects clan's members. I know swapping between operator and movement is more difficult on console, and I think this might be a bigger contributing factor to the difference then we are both giving credit to. Priming should be expected in disruption runs, expecially at cap, and I can see how wisp might be better for console's more restricted movement. I don't have that limitation on PC, so console limitations aren't something im especially congizant of. You have shown me a hole in my consideration of citrine vs wisp ill have to ask my alliance about, and ill have to educate myself on more.
I forgot the include the ehp/s if compared to wisp on the heal if you include the 90% dr the effective heal is equivalent to 250hp/s on wisp.
I always saw wisp as a more self focused support. She shares her abilities but her design was always 1-man-army. I'm glad you see what I was telling the people I played with back when I got citrine (I feel not so dumb now). I was very glad to see that citrines' 1 and 2 apply to the team when you're together no matter where you are in the marching order. With wisp you have to be in front of everyone if you're not camping for everyone to get the motes and enjoy your breach... Which, if you're the first, it's likely that you're the one who will be killing everything too and it's not like people are going to know you're using breach every time. That's why I see wisp as more self centered.
Just wanna mention that it's obvious that up to citrine DE avoided giving abilities that give damage reduction based on enemy kills which is something I was waiting for, and, finally!
thank you, I didn't understand citrine much so this will help
Honestly citrine's biggest issue is the casting speed on her abilities. The rest is 10/10.
Aye, but it is fixed with archon shards :)
Wisp mains are coping seething and malding rn (definitely not me at all)
Citrine is definitely a very strong frame, still Wisp can hardly be beaten for level cap content with invisibility, comfier shieldgating and superior burst damage, if we are talking solo runs.
In a squad, you just couple em both and get everything.
The biggest downside for Citrine is her stationary playstyle, requiring you to be in range of your crystal to unlock the deeps. 90% DR is sadly useless when talking approaching the level cap, but coupled with her passive def outshines wisp in base steel path content.
Yeah I can agree about the DR maybe not being "levelcap" worthy, but we did the cap run with a chroma and citrine aura tank, we didnt have problems until about 3k honestly... then the tank failed in spectacular fashion. That being said I have been testing my 4 with cold ward and not gonna lie... shit feels pretty good. Citrine scales to 12.3k armor with mecha set cold ward stack and 99% dr and gets the 90% DR aura with 326% armor increase aura too. Havent had to res teammates because of it. It it an active tank though.
@@Gambled Saying wisp is better for level cap is very much true considering literally just wisp’s passive makes her pretty much immortal and if you are in trouble you can cast her 2 real quick and you are immortal. That being said, if citrine truly is a better frame for lower leveled content, wouldnt that straight up make her better than wisp since most of warframe takes place in lower leveled content anyways? Most players have never even thought of going past thousands aside from trying to get to level cap or just doing an activity such as duviri.
The invis only helps wisp in that situation, while it can be a massive help, the total utility offered by citrine to way too high from all of her abilites. Her playstyle is significantly more engaging and rewarding to the team compared to drop motes and run around. Admittably wisp would be far superior for newer players to use as a "baby tenno's first support frame".
@@Gambled I get where you want to go with that argumentation, but the harsh reality of the game is, it doesn't have any game modes where utility like that has a place. Warframe is ultimately about speed, mobility and damage and the scaling works in such a way, that any defensive mechanic, that straight up doesn't make you invulnerable or untargettable is pretty much useless. In a perfect world, we would have fleshed out game modes, where all those abilities get a place to shine, but currently it just isn't.
The only thing I want from my support team mate is massive DPS buffs, because THAT is ultimately the highest form of defense and utility in Warframe and Wisp offers just that with a maxed out Roar buff and an insane fire rate buff coupled with the most broken ability in the whole game, Breach Surge.
Finally someone said it and realized, citrine betta!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Ty king, been falling in love with her lately
Citrine is absolutely superior in every way. The only downsides I could think of are that she’s arguably harder to farm, and she requires more brain power to learn to play. Subsume Breach Surge onto her and you don’t even need to choose anymore.
I personally run Arcane Blessing and Arcane Grace on her and I never had to worry about shield gating even once in base Steel Path.
My first thought with her was cold ward/ mecha set and she has about 12300 armor... it seems a bit much but its another aura of defense. 90%dr from 2 and hp/s and now armor increase too.
@@Gambled I use Adaptation on her but I’m not sure if it stacks with her 2, haven’t really tested, if it does though, then it’s up to 99% damage reduction, which is really nice.
The Mecha set sounds quite interesting, blasting the whole room with elements, that would work very well with the Galvanized mods. It’s a shame that it’s kinda hard to justify using a kubrow instead of the foxes and cats in most situation atm. I can’t wait to see what DE came up with the pets rework. The Duviri kubrow skin looks really nice.
@@FusingSeven479 This is part of the reason im testing cold ward with citrine rn. Citrine armor gets to about 12-14k with cold ward and mecha set, making kubrows survive just fine in sp. After about 20 eso runs, I find that my 3 is stealing kills with the mecha set and causing the statuses to all stack to 10x or higher if they are uncapped.
Cant wait for the update.
best support is chroma change my mind.
with just trinit's helmenth he can give : damage+ armor, from vex armor either hp , armor, or damage on swap, from trinity's ablity heal and status immunity. i gave a volt 97 dr just from vex alone.
Ive been saying this for a bit and people actually get mad, i have breach surge as her fourth as well which has been great
Yo gamble i know this is off topic but do you think hespar can do survival level cap without too many buffs?
a survival? omg why?!
probably though since everything can cap. KPS might be the issue but it should be able to kill. What set up were you thinking?
@@Gambled because i am a simple man who cannot handle doing anything that requires more than killing
I guess i would take rhino with nourish/strip ability, epitaph and some backup primary
I feel like Citrine got much more focused in on being a support frame then Wisp did. Wisp only really has two useful abilities and one alright abilty being will o wisp. Citrine uses her entire kiy and I think subsuming anything onto her is a waste
Pillage is a good replace for her ult if you don’t like it but I have a build for her base abilities and a pillage build for when I’m not using weapons that can hit the crystals easily
im very late to this video but as for the "wisp cant give you energy" part, what about archon stretch and shock motes? probably doesn't work with teammates but its still energy. sorry if you mentioned it and i missed it.
very true, and you are right, I run archon stretch on all my wisp setups and just forma appropriately... and you are correct, citrine can coat the floor in energy and hp orbs.
Ive been spending a lot of time with Citrine lately, shes incredible.
I see where you getting at, but wisp can be pretty much be played for every game mode and still beein usefull and make full use of her kit while citrine only be usefull for stationary task and the biggest drawback for me in comparison to wisp is that's theres no movement speed increase so kinda only use able in defense like mission or with a pre-made team for stationary camp
Just recast the 3 my dude
One thing i'd say on the citrine vs wisp arguement is that wisp has a way easier time with subsumes, citrine kinda wants all 4 of her abilities while wisp has one easy throwaway ability. But I dont disagree with citrine being super useful as a whole.
Wouldn't this work in favor of citrine though? Having 4 usefull abilities that you dont want to get rid of, unlike wisp? I find getting rid of her 4 mainly for not having the junk all over the screen, being the better helminth. Been using cold ward on her for a bit and the ehp you give to the team is utterly insane.
@@Gambled I think for newbros i'd tend to agree but I think if a frame has 4 very useful abilities instead of 3 its harder to kinda just slot-in whatever the team needs.
Like if you want citrines crit buff from her 4 i'd find it more annoying to helminth it away for something the team needs cause its more like youre swapping one good power for another one but for wisp her 4 is kinda useless all things considered in high levels so just slotting in a helminth that the team needs would feel easier i'd think cause its more of just an upgrade to your kit rather than having to swap one good ability for another one like with citrine.
Atleast thats how I feel, I think they are both excellent frames all in all, just my two cents on the topic
All four of a frames abilities should be the goal. Helmith exists cos DE took the easy way out of reworking frames. A complete kit out of the gate should be applauded.
Citrine is so nasty in duviri if you get the any decree that affects status.
Sometimes she just clears the screen for me if i have the status spread decree.
Why not put breach surge on her 2 😮?
The Garry cap video. I was using her to boost someone else's dps
The real answer to this is run both in a sqaud
Happy I suggested her for the level cap run
I've been trying more flexible builds with her and I've gotten her ehp up to about 25mill and pet way higher
armor to 12.3k with cold ward which would double dip on pet giving 3.26x3.26 more armor
maybe pet can survive 1ks then... but its a active tank with 44s rotations... should make her really tanky like baruuk
@@Gambled ooo, I’ll have to bug ya about the details around those builds you’re playing with soon
Yes, I'd like that build as well
Yes let's the build and it in action
Laughs in Trinity.
Seriously though, you have to build for status for Citrine to be decent on higher lvl content while wisp... just works... Slap 400+ strength infused reservoirs onto the ground and whole team has massive flat hp boost, cc and speed. Everyone benefits from this. Wisp is much better for random squads, while Citrine is a specialist.
both are good level cap dont really matter just depends what you like better
Be a little more silent, i could almost hear you!
No, I like wisp more because she has more cake
thats fair... DE made it fucking weird with citrine with the whole gemussy thing. Forbidden fleshlight
@@Gambled💀 The devs were actually stoned
I don't know how you'll survive level cap with damage reduction lmao
... but you can face tank level cap in a organized group though. Whats this comment mean?
@@Gambled How? 90% damage reduction isn't enough
@@spectralspectra2282 team comp... citrine, baruuk, gara are 99.9% from abilities before armor and adaptation. God forbid you have a chroma on the team with that juicy armor bonus. Wisp would be dank also.
@@Gambled dam that seems like a lot of setup, I didn't think you'd be able to survive 9999 enemies even with them doing 0.1% damage
I thought you'd have to survive exclusively on shield gate, invisibility like wisp or Octavia, immortality like revenant or just protective slinging all the time lol
@@spectralspectra2282when youre able to stack DR from adaptation and DR ability+shieldgate+aegis, youre just unable to die
I’ve always liked her kit but mirror defense sucks and I’m really cheap with plat
As far as grinds go, mirror defense is not all bad. Just get a zippy nuke frame and put on some music :D
@@UnknownRex If you have titania she makes collecting the shards easy. Any nuke frame will do well.
@@UnknownRexFr, my friend plays Ember w/ Breach Surge and does nearly all the damage in Steel Path while I run around as Titania collecting the gems. He doesn’t really mind the mode, but since everyone else hates it, he gets loads of plat from selling Secondary Encumber lol
It’s really not that bad. If you were willing to stomach Khora or Nidus’ grinds, then you should be fine.
@@SmoothTurtle840 I might’ve bought both of them with plat😭
problem is WF is a solo game and supports are not needed and for the usual pub/solo play Citrine is meh, Wisp has easy invis/invul, HP stacking is just bad and cant scale (all the clueless wisp players maxing HP and dying when levels go beyond 150)
yeah straight up hp stacking is only effective at lower levels when they should actually be ehp stacking. Honestly im not so sure about the no need for supports thing. Can be a great buff for sure, but can also help massively when running into newbros that are trying to hard push content.
@@GambledSupports aren't necessary if you just run nuke frames. It certainly makes the game much more chill with a decent support.
Wdym health stacking is useless? Inaros is the best tank in the game :)
Inaros with blood alter is a really stupid playstyle... really really stupid... but effective for about level 500 sp.
EHP regen is insane because its missing hp.
Than*
ight so wisp with 1 ability provides some cc firerate reload attack speed and speed and health and hp regen
lets be fair here. Its one cast with an augment and it doesnt give reload, and that cc is to 5 enemies, but it does give 2 damage buff to sol gate also.
@@Gambled last time I checked it does and the cc isn't limited and sol gate ain't that good
@@noahedenborg4221 speed mote doesnt give reload m8, and the elc mote has a limited number of triggers at once but can obvious continue to trigger with kills, while citrine 3 is limited by procs/s, didnt say sol gate was good but it does get buffed by motes
@@Gambled yeah barely buffed
Also I said last time I checked didn't say I was correct
You need to fix your mic volume