I appreciate the information you provide on this video. The use of the horse skull greatly helps a viewer understand your comments. I especially appreciate your comments on the dangers of adjusting a bit too tightly, the dangers of a mechanical hackamore, and the fact that even a bitless bridle can prove harmful when used incorrectly.
I have sometimes work with horse with were labelled as "unworkable", "Strong on the bit", "heavy on the bit". The first thing, I did was loosen the bit, let the horse get use to it and then riding it. Bam! Wonderful horse to work it. Have seen and worked with this multiple times. It is so important with the bit placement and bit types.
I ride bitless, personnal preference. Many people that ride with bits are telling me "you can't stop your horse without a bit!" and my answer is always "bits won't stop horses that don't want to stop" because a scared, terrified horse, in a blind run, won't stop because they have a bit... A horse would stop because they learned to listen to you in any situation, and to focus on you rather than their fears, and that's the same bitless or bridless. Education is the key in any case. I can stop a horse from galop with only a rope around the neck, because usually I only use my balance to stop, and in emergency case, to ask more clearly to stop I use the rope, by gently pulling on it, just enough to make sure the horse feels it. People don't realize that they can ride their horses using only their legs and balance (except for jumping, because your position doen't allow you to use your balance properly).
That is VERY TRUE. Spend more time with horse and teach the horse to obey NOT BECAUSE OF PAIN but BECAUSE OF UNDERSTANDING, so your horse will be much HAPPIER AND HEALTHIER.
Daniel, You have a gift! Common sense, well thought out lessons of easily received info and you present it so well even a half wit like me understands and learned something! You saved a relationship with a horse I nearly gave up on!
I found this really interesting, particularly the part about how low a bit should be fitted. I take lessons at a riding school, the day after I watched this video, I was at the stables for my lesson, and I noticed on the horse I was about to ride his bridle was fitted so tight it was pulling the bit (single jointed eggbutt snaffle) right up into the corners of his mouth, so much so you could hardly pull it up any more. I dropped it a couple notches and swear that horse breathed a sigh of relief! Could probably gone lower, now I rewatch this. I'd ridden the same horse horse last week (the stables usually puts us on varying horses) and this time he was so much better, much more flexion, less resistance, just much softer in general. I'm convinced that dropping the bit down made all the difference, I'll definitely look out for this more in the future, thank you for the advice!
I can't like this video enough!! Very informative and the visual aid of the horse skull and rubber band placement was the icing on the cake. I am currently binge watching all of your videos and have already learned many new things. You make the "hows and whys" of horsemanship easy to understand and your sense of humor is just great! Thanks ever so much for taking the time to do these videos!!
Just came across your video , i have watched a few , don't have knowledge on horses but im a horse enthusiast and you're one of the gew that goes in to depth regarding the horse and how the most of the problems begin with the rider ... thank you for your explanation of the anatomy of the skull of the horse..
Thank you so much for making this video! It was very informational, I am breaking in my 9 (almost 10) year old mare, she wasn't stopping very well before I watched your video. I realized my fault as a rider after watching your video and I now have much more confidence in the saddle and my horse behaves better as well! Thank you!
Thanks so much for that video, Daniel. I'm a beginning horseman trying to find my way. And some people come off so callous. Others freak me out and suggest that if I'm not riding bitless and bareback, I'm abusing the horse. I mean, that would be an awesome thing to do, riding bitless and bareback... But I may actually have to get somewhere or jump some things before I've ascended to total horse whispering genius-hood. So It's really helpful to hear someone explain how to use traditional devices with loving care to the horse's anatomy. Learning a lot here. I'll never look at a horse's nose quite the same way again!
I don't believe in bits period. but I do think this was well said, and good information for someone who is to nervous to ride in a rope halter or doesn't trust their horses enough to do so... I showed this to my sister -who has rough hands and uses a tom thumb- and I also showed your other 2 videos about bits to her and I'm verry happy it changed her way of thinking! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I can see what you are saying about having the bit be more free and lower in the mouth. If horses work on pressure and release, how can they learn if their is constant contact in the mouth, with the bit being raised up higher and tighter.
Having very limited knowledge first I dove into owning horses after retirement with the horses best interest at the forefront. Like you said in this video there are dozens of bit videos some hackamore vids and plenty of opinions to listen to if you choose. Yours is the 1st one to allow me to be the horse so to speak . To understand exactly what would be going on in there. You and baby need a touch of practice but I can't say enough about your message. Signed new subscriber
Here's the thing about not using a bit: They can be cruel but as you point out, that really has to do with how they are used. The only serious argument that I have heard comes from Robert Cook, DVM, who did years of research on thoroughbred race horses and concluded that the spontaneous bleeding from the lungs that happens in race horses comes from the bit not allowing a seal with the horses lips of his mouth. Since horses don't breath through their mouths they need to seal their mouths. The bit breaks this seal and makes their breathing like trying to drink with a straw that has a hole in the side of it. Presumably, when the horse is at maximum exertion, racing, jumping, doing upper level dressage, this 'leak' causes his lungs to work too hard and ruptures blood vessels in his lungs. What controls a horse is not a bit but trust and training. Being that bits are not necessary for anything we ask them to do, it seems intrusive to be shoving one in their mouth. But that's entirely subjective. I too have dealt with horses who seemed more comfortable with a bit but with a bit of patience and time that need to hang on to something in their mouth can be transitioned to bitless. What I've found, at least int he small sample I've worked with is that all the horses who seemed to want a bit were horses who were weighted to their front ends. It's as though the bit gave them something to hold onto so they didn't fall forward. A couple of weeks of teaching them to put their weight over their hind end (and conditioning their abdominal muscles to do this) has solved their need for a bit. However, horses, as prey animals and plains animals, are submissive and learn to hide pain. This makes it very difficult for us, as predators, to be sensitive to a horse's needs. When an owner sees a horse object to having something put in his mouth, and just ignores that, well, they're ignoring the horse saying "I'd rather not, thank you very much." But the owner insists and the horse's nature makes him submit. And if he doesn't, he gets a bad rap as a 'bad' horse and all that entails. I teach my students to stay out of their horses mouth, the the reins are supporting aids and not primary. The seat, legs and upper body, are primary with reins supporting the aids unless one is at a stand still and turning 90 or 180 degrees. Any student that left a welt on a horses nose would be severly beaten. (just kidding, Mom's). Nice video and use of a horse to demo the concepts.
We discuss the airflow and suction thing in "A Bit About Bits Part 3". Dr Cook was also selling you something, was he not? Any salesman will have a great sounding argument as to why YOU NEED their product... Notice that I am selling you nothing.
+Daniel Dauphin Of course you're selling me something. Don't be silly. You're selling me an idea, you're selling me your expertise. Whether I buy into you ideas or not is just as important or not important to you as whether or not I buy one of Dr Cook's bridles is to him, but to impugn his character and suggest that his work is based upon trying to gen up sales is a nasty thing to do. The idea of 'Sealing the horses mouth' is one that stands or falls with the research, not with sales numbers. And I bought one of his bridles long before hearing anything about this notion of sealing the mouth. I continue to experiment with various bridles, all bitless. My experience says that horses are smart enough to learn an awful lot and there is no magic to equipment. The equipment one chooses to use should be comfortable for the horse, not go against his biology and be clear if the purpose is communication. Whatever one chooses to use or not use there is an obligation to recognize the comfort and well being of the horse is paramount, followed closely by the safety of the rider. The more we can be aware of the horse's needs, such as the need to move and not keep them in a stall, letting them out for a half hour of day to run around in a paddock, the better off our horses will be and the happier both horse and rider will be. All of this stems from a 'Train for Trust' philosophy. If there's any magic, it's in that. Etc.
+Equs Narnd I don't disagree with any point you just made with the exception of Dr Cook. I have seen video of his teaching, but not met him personally. In my opinion, he uses bad information ago with good facts and has an overall negative impact. I consider him to be a charlatan and snake oil salesman. His entire cause is based off of examples of the worst horsemanship one can possibly find.
Equs Narnd dr cook is the most biased source ever. He said bits and all bitless bridles are bad except for his bridle. He obviously just wants to market a product. The best one yet is from Hilary Clayton. She supports bitless but only for horses who like it. I know 29 horses and only 2 are ridden bitless because they dislike bits
Equs Narnd www.google.com/amp/s/www.equisearch.com/.amp/HorseJournal/dr-hilary-clayton-offers-many-prescriptions-for-bits-4841#ampshare=www.equisearch.com/HorseJournal/dr-hilary-clayton-offers-many-prescriptions-for-bits-4841 scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Hilary+clayton+bit&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DhM8VgFR-soIJ m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=555826984465272&id=188817027832938&set=pb.188817027832938.-2207520000.1450094554. www.equusuniversalis.com/world/index.php/free-articles/item/37-bitless-is-not-always-bitless patents.google.com/patent/US2804740A/en These are all quotes from The Ultimate Book of Horse Bits by Emily Esterson ''The bitless hackamore uses the same kind of pressure as a curb bit, without a mouthpiece.'' Pg 47 pic caption ''Mechanical hackamores, like all leverage bits, can be quite harsh in the wrong hands. I fact, a nisused mechanical hackamore can break a horse's nose.'' Pg 131 ''There are several kinds of hackamore nosebands, and like bits, they can also range from mild to severe.'' Pg 131 ''The trigeminal nerve, or C5, is said to be responsible for much of the feeling in the horse's mouth and muzzle'' (aka the nose has just as much feeling as the mouth.) Pg 30 ''Some mechanical hacks can be harsher than a bitted bridle, and in the wrong hands can do some serious damage to a horse's nose cartilage - a sensitive and relatively soft structure.'' Pg 48
Thank you for the good explanation. I ride with bits and brideless. Sometimes a horse is so irritate by a bit, that it can be easier to educate without it. I think it depends to the horse which object you have to use. Like your attitude- enjoy life!
Great information! I'm an inexperienced rider, and your videos are some of the best out there man! You've been a huge help in getting me comfortable with my horse. If you ever find yourself fairly close to El Paso I'd love to attend a clinic! I'm active duty military so traveling too far is something I can't do. Looking forward to your next vid!
Thanks for posting. I'm going riding for the first time in 45 years, even though I've had my best horse ever for 14 years, we've never ridden together. So Saturday I'm going with a group to learn all of this again.
I discovered you by accident when I was searching for info on the proper spurs I should use. After watching your spur video I was hooked on your very informative explanations and now subscribe to your videos♥️
Im enjoying your walk threw the bit explanations but mostly your explanation of a mechanical hackamore I hate them and I so glad to see your answer on them hopefully some of the users of them will see your explanation and learn thanks again
Dan thanks for trying to get the word out on bad bits and bad hands, it has been one of my pet peeves for decades. At one time I even purchased some bitless bridles trying to avoid bad hands on my horses ( flat racers) but alas to no avail. They maybe be suitable to certain types of pleasure pony but not suitable to finely tuned race horses. There is a whole other issue with the bit up too tight and with bad hands, will cause epiglotic displacement but that is a whole new subject, keep up the good work
I have the side-pull bitless and, too, a French-link--I gently use either piece of equipment with my mares and get good results. To me, it is all about staying teachable and developing horsemanship.
I've been thinking about taking riding lessons as a beginner and I just want to get an idea of what I'm getting into before I get into it! Lol but anyway, this video was very educational! Much appreciated!
Hello Daniel,I have just watched the bit series and am very thankful for the Information! I had always kept the snaffle bits low in the mouth but was unsure about doing this with leverage bits. Some time in the past I had also read or heard that the shain should not be too loose or the bit would turn too far Forward in the horses mouth. But your Explanation is great! With a bit looser chain the horse can respnd first to the lip and tongue pressure before the chain engages. How obvious! I was always wondering what I was doing wwrong that cause the horse to raise it's head when I use a leverage bit( even gently). i tried These Thing out immediately ; lowered the bit and lengthend the chain, with great results! my horse was way more relaxed. Thank-you so muich for all These insights.
Thanks for the info I am new to the horse world and I thought about going bit less with my horse 😳but now I understand much better why bits are better that nose bone is really so sensitive.
very interesting video. thank you for sharing this with us :) when i get my horse, i will have the bit lower and not pushing against the horses mouth. how do you know that the bit isn't too low?
I find that the mouthpiece and headstall tend to form a right angle when adjusted properly. For some, that may be too loose, but I definitely don’t want to see a wrinkle. I also don’t want to see the bit so low that it could hit canines, incisors, or fall out of the mouth. Start with no wrinkle and loosen the bridle one hole at a time. Usually 1-2 holes looser than one wrinkle is good.
@@DanielDauphin ok thankyou for your quick response :) this will be my first horse so i will be quite unsure of what is right for the horse. i have done lots of research but I'm afraid that the horse wont like me and that i will do lots of stuff wrong
Daniel I've watched all four of your bitting videos and they are BY FAR the best information out there -- better than any book I've found or any video I've purchased. They are very specific, thoughtful and you answer most of the questions I've had for years. I'm wondering if you are going to do one on tongue relief, because that's a big issue that I just don't understand. I ride with a comfort snaffle made by one of the big companies (the mouthpiece is similar to the Billy Allen you show in one of the videos). It has no port at all, and it is not tipped forward, so does that mean it provides no tongue relief and my horse is having a hard time swallowing with it in his mouth? FWIW, he does not seem bothered by the bit, really, but when we're riding at a walk, he carries his head and neck low (below wither height). It comes up some if I push him to a faster walk, but I'm wondering if that could have anything to do with the bit. I think you mentioned doing a video on tongue relief and I'm hoping you do. I have other questions for you, but that's the biggie. The other ones, I'll post one at a time. Thanks!
Hey Dan :) i appreciate the videos you are putting out, and I definitely appreciate the subtle yet unmistakable sarcasm throughout them all! I have been a "horse lover" my whole life but its' just been in the past year my dream of being a horse owner has come true. Long story short, I am finding my way with the help of friends and videos such as yours. It is sooo true that one must find their own way with their horse, trial and error mostly, tons of common sense, and most importantly to me a desire to enjoy my horse that is safe for me and not harmful to him. I am loving this and once again thanks for the simple and informative videos.. keep them coming! You have a blessed day also!
+Aline King Oh I forgot! the videos on bits was extremely helpful to me....It helped me decide which bit to change Beau to and reenforced the truth that each horse is different and you have to find what works best! (not simply use the one your "forceful" horse friend has always used!! lol
I love your videos! I am a novice rider and happy to know how bits work. I'm confused about the loose o ring snaffle bit opposed to a shank solid port bit (I think that's what it's called) It seems to me when you apply pressure pulling back on a snaffle bit, the joint of the mouthpiece hit the roof of the horses mouth and cause sharp pain. The solid port bit seems as though the smooth curved piece hits the roof of the horses mouth not causing sharp pain. I understand it's the hands of the rider but don't you think smooth pressure on the roof of the mouth is better than the joint of the snaffle bit. I myself ride without contact on my horses, she responds well with voice commands and just learning about seat cues.
+Frances McCarthy Snaffles are not capable of poking the roof of the horse's mouth. This is a myth that gets perpetuated, but has been disproved by x-rays and good sense. Here's a link to a video that we did on this exact topic. ua-cam.com/video/Db35et7U1Q0/v-deo.html
I thought every bitless bridle was supposed to fit right above where the thin nasal bone ends (where it basically connects to the rest of the skull) to avoid pressure being put on that thin nasal bone... and I agree with what you're saying, bits don't cause damage unless the rider is harsh with that bit, and it's the same for bitless bridles. I'm thinking about using a side pull on my horse since before she was only ridden with a bitless bridle before, I won't always use a bitless bridle, but I want to try it out just so maybe she can be comfortable since that's what she was always ridden in
Would you be willing to explain in more detail the Tom thumb bit, I will be honest that I have had great success with them not really knowing what it was called and I have seen others using them and we probably don't know what we are doing in their mouths. I have found your videos by trying to understand bits better as they are sort of glossed over in most books I have read. Thank you so much for all your help.
deanna l if you'll check out our video on transition bits, towards the end, I discuss the pitfalls of the true Tom Thumb and the slight modifications that improve it.
also, when I search the internet there seems to be a variety of types considered to be Tom thumb. I am just trying to further understand so I know what I am using.
Welcome to the internet and the massive amounts of bad information that you can find. Here's a link to the video I referenced. Go to about 33 minutes in for the Tom Thumb info. A Tom Thumb is a pretty specific bit with a single jointed mouthpiece, a particular union of cheeks to mouthpiece, and a specific cheek design with a certain leverage ratio and shape. ua-cam.com/video/TTyM22UU6CY/v-deo.html
The mare I had that couldn't seem to breath with a bit in her mouth...the leather bosal/sidepull I used would cause her lips to flap...from pain. because she was strong and I had to remind her to settle down once in a while. So, bitless did have pain involved.
Interesting video, thank you for recording it. My horse does not seem to "take" the bit and hold it in her mouth. When she was younger, the bit came out off the sides of her mouth when I tried to turn. Would you be able to explain why? She's a bit better now but I must admit I made the mistake to pull the bit too high in her mouth thinking that would hold it in place. I don't think she's comfortable with that though considering the amount of head tossing I get when I ride her. Any advice welcome 🙂
Can you please tell me, what bit and bridle brand are you using in this video? I'm about to purchase very first bridle with bit for my horse and I woild like to get this one. Thank you.
In fact a mechanical hackamore, correctly adjusted should have the upper edge of the noseband resting against or one finger width below the cheekbone which is way above the delicate nasal bone and sensitive soft tissues and nerves found in the lower muzzle. In jumping, most times the nosebands of the mechanical hackamores and the curbstraps are padded with sheepskin and/or are made of padded leather. At most gynkhanas and such is where you see nosebands of mechanical hackamores riding too low on the nose. The problem is the owners, when choosing a headstall choose one with longer cheekpieces designed for use with a bit. owners need educating to choose headstalls with shorter cheekpieces to raise the hackamore high enough not to damage the horses sensitive muzzle or lower face tissues. Good video that shows a horse's skull and where things are. A horse with a bit adjusted too low that it has to "Hold it up" with its tongue to keep it in a comfortable spot, creates a horse with a clamped mouth and tighter jaw. Just saying.
Ma'am, I won't argue your pontifications on the mechanical hack. I always say that if your horse is happy, then I am too. It is rare that I see a well behaved, happy and obedient horse wearing one. They are most often incorrectly adjusted, as you have said, and can wreak havoc and cause permanent damage. As the the lower bit position causing a clamped mouth and tighter jaw, you simply could not be more wrong.
I was just watching this video and thinking how great it is and was going to leave a lengthy comment, but I see that I did that already -- three years ago! So I'll spare you another essay. I'll just say these two things. One is that I appreciate SO MUCH that you don't recommend hiking the bit up so that there's a permanent wrinkle in the corner of the horse's mouth. That pressure, that the horse can't get away from, makes no sense to me and yet many supposed experts still do it. The second thing is that you don't seem to be a bit snob. You have said on multiple videos that you can do almost all of what you ever need to do with a horse with a loose ring single joined snaffle. I know you also use a shanked correction bit, but what bugs me is people who think that a rider isn't really riding and horse doesn't really know anything unless they're going in a "bridle" (shanked bit). I certainly understand that refinements are possible with a shanked bit that may not be achievable with a snaffle, but I don't appreciate the idea that us snaffle riders & horses are clueless. Maybe you think that, as well; but if you do -- thanks for not saying it!!
I mean well yes hacks do have more leverage that dont mean that’s the way it works with dr cooks or riding in a halter. I believe in with any animal a quick pressure and release. There are way way more nerve endings in the mouth than on the outer of the body.
Where the bit sits in "neutral" is not near the teeth, as is illustrated in the video. The horse can suck the bit up into it's mouth and chew on it. A rider pulling excessively on the bit can also get it so far back that it hits teeth. You just shouldn't be there. In my experience, horses do not like those types of bits and so they chew on them. If you've ever had braces or remember losing a tooth as a kid, you mess with what annoys you. A horse chewing on a bit is absolutely NOT A GOOD THING and I would be taking steps to find out what the problem is and change it. Our Bit Basics/Snaffles video goes more in depth on the subject.
Bits do cause pain, that is their job, this is what they were invented to do. The theory is to control the horse with a pain device and the bit is one of the pain devices invented to control the horse. Yes, heavy hands will make the pain worse but even a good rider with very quiet hands will still cause pain when or if the horse spooks, if the rider falls off and many other times the good rider will pull back hard on the reins when they don't really mean to. Riding bitless is the right thing to do. You don't need a bit. Some think that if a horse runs off with you that you can stop the horse by pulling back on the reins and becasue of the bit he will stop. This is not true. The horse will just run through the reins. When it comes to turning the horse using your legs properly to queue the horse and then using your seat properly is the correct way to turn the horse. Once I realized I don't need a bit to turn my horse and the bit will never stop my horse then I asked: "what do you need a bit for." The answer is NOTHING! So why take a chance of causing pain to your horse? Logic tells the smart rider that bits are not needed if you know how to ride properly.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and the wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell Since you're obviously passionate about this issue, I invite you to start making videos on your channel. You can use your obvious knowledge and those upper level skills to illustrate and educate. Then, you won't have to worry about people like me spreading all this "pain propaganda"...I've gone ahead and subscribed and I look forward to learning from such an expert as yourself...
I would love to make videos and post them here on youtube. Unfortunately, I was robbed of my ability to walk several years back and must rely on others for everything I can't do. I am blessed in that I am still able to ride I just need several people to help me mount and dismount. I can't figure out how to do the video thing but I did love your suggestion and I am trying to figure out who may be able to help me with this project. You are so correct when you said that I am passionate about not using pain devices. I think one reason I am so passionate is that I suffer chronic pain, therefore, I can't stand it when anyone or any animal is or could be in pain. I know you don't think bits cause pain. I would bet there is nothing I can say that would change your mind just like there is nothing you can say that would make me believe bits don't cause pain. I just want to help horses have better lives. The horse world is full of people who do horrible things to horses when they are trying to control their horse. If I could convince horse-people they can ride safely without a bit I believe horses would be better off. I do thank you for your suggestion of making videos. May God bless you.
I'm sorry for your situation. I would simply suggest a couple of things regarding the "pain". First off, I"ll bet that doctors, physical therapists, nurses, etc. have caused you plenty of it. Horses have to deal with the same thing from veterinarians, equine dentists, and other horse health specialists. In the service of their duties, those people intentionally and knowingly cause horses pain all day, every day. Hopefully, if they are skilled in their efforts, the horse will also feel a relief after the "work" has been completed. If you've ever watched a horse receive a chiropractic adjustment, you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that they are comfortable while being contorted and cracked. They do, however, do lots of licking and chewing and take many deep breaths of relaxation following. In short, lots of things that are good and necessary have some pain associated with them. Coggins tests, vaccinations, dealing with wounds, abscesses, and all manner of physical issues all involve causing intentional pain for the greater, long term good. I have tens of thousands of hours in a saddle, pulling on reins with various bits attached. Can they cause pain? Absolutely. Is causing pain with a bit the ACTUAL purpose of them? Absolutely not! You'd be hard pressed to sit and watch me work horses for days on end and attempt to point out the horses showing signs of pain or even discomfort. Might there be a moment in time, here and there, when I need to make a stern point to a horse, through the bit? I unapologetically say again, absolutely! On a permanent or chronic basis, however, your argument is completely wrong. When we do see people with issues using their hands improperly, the solution is to educate them. Changing what is on the other end of the reins is folly. Their methodology will still be very poor and the problems will persist or worsen anyway. The particular apparatus on the horse's head at those moments of poor handling wouldn't change a thing assuming that the apparatus was reasonable in the first place. It's still pressure and release to whatever degree is needed. I don't view that as any different at all from a veterinarian who needs to stick one with a needle in order to ensure his long and healthy life. Life involves pain. Pain is not the end of the world. I"m not going to separate my herd because one of them might be bitten or kicked by another. That's foolish and contrary to any horse's actual wishes. I'm sorry that you are in a situation where you deal with pain chronically. I can assure you that after over 20 years and over 1000 head of colts under my belt, plus thousands more horses worked with, I have a few aches and pains as well. I still get up and go to work. I'm not excusing people who are actually abusive and cruel. I'm simply saying that the premise that changing from a bit in the mouth to an apparatus elsewhere is not even one micro degree different. You are using pressure to motivate and control the animal, sometimes against his wishes. Plain and simple. This whole "bits are cruel" movement was spawned by junk science from people who wanted to sell you something and they had to find a way to convince you to buy it, and it is being passed on by charlatans and the gullible to people who have soft hearts and mean well, but don't actually know what they are talking about, and I can and do absolutely prove it. Meanwhile, people who actually do know what they are talking about have to defend themselves constantly because some 14 year old heard that bits were abusive and cruel and wants to publicly call them out... I was being polite, but your entire opening comment is absolutely fraught with misinformation and things that are easily proven false. I certainly wasn't joking about your obvious passion. I would hope that you'd use that passion to seek Truth and use logic and reason to evaluate it, rather than emotion and pseudoscience.
FYI: I read a few comments from others who believe bitless bridles are better for horses. One comment mentioned Dr. Cooke, VMD. You told this person you thought DR. Cooke was spreading misinformation only to sale his bitless bridle. I don't know if he only cares about selling his bridle but I really don't like his bridle. I like "side-pull" bridles. Cooks Bridle looks like it could cause pain under the chin by pinching due to tightening under the horse's chin when a rein is pulled on but not loosening back up once the pulling of the rein had stopped. I have never used his bridle and I have never seen his bridle other than in pictures. I have read a description of his bridle on a site that sells his bridles. It was the pictures along with the description that made me believe his bridle causes pain under the chin instead of in the mouth. I would tell anyone the "side-pull" bitless bridles are totally pain-free for the horse. I would never use any other type of bitless bridle. The side-pull bridle seems to be the best for the horse as far as I know. The hackamore may be totally pain-free but I really don't know.
REBECCA ANDERSON did you catch the part about the Arabian gelding with the 1/2" of scar tissue around his nose from the bitless bridle? I wasn't there, but I somehow doubt that was a pain free experience...Educating the rider's hands is THE ONLY solution.
I can see your concern with mechanical hackamores, and maybe hackamores in general, but all things used to ride horses in, besides the saddle, are used to make a horse uncomfortable.
You don’t need a bit. My ancestors never had bits. Lol bit’s didn’t show up until thousands of years later. Spend time with your horses. Aho’. And have a blessed day.
As you mention about the procesus masalis (fragile nose bones) which are held together in a flat stitch joint by cartilage, it was found by a forensic scientist that joint can fracture or break under the pressure of one human finger, so yes bitless bridles can cause bad damage to those fragile nose bones. Under those nose bones is attached an optical nerve, so if there is fracture of the cartilage or breakage and someone continues to use a bitless bridle or pull on a halter that is applying pressure to those bone, the bones can begin to move and when they do this they irritate the optical nerve. Metal bits can also pose a few problems in triggering neurocranial shock against the outlets of the trigeminal nerve and other facial nerves in the mouth. The mouth is highly wired with all kinds of nerves, even the bit seat if the lip is folded over it is not folded over all the time every time pressure it applied to the bit and the only thing that exists between the unyielding metal of the bit and that razor sharp lower jaw bone is nerve wired mucus membranes. There are flexible rubber bits, but most of them are made rather thick, while that would help ensure less pressure to nerves it takes some horses a while to get used to them.
No mechanical hacks. No broken-mouth snaffles. And most people should not be riding with bosals because they aren't skilled enough to understand how the leverage works and they end up torking the horse wrong at the poll. They think bosals look cool and they wreck the horse. Bosals take a lot of experience and skill to use correctly on many levels. Good video, overall. I like this trainer's demeanor.
Dauphin Horsemanship you don’t need a bit. They cause pain and you need a bond with your horse. If you want to bond with your horse than you should not Stick a pain bit in their mouths
Also, if I had a bit I couldn’t ride because my horse would be in so much pain. I ride in a bitless bridal and I can do everything that I need to do, you put the bit on a very sharp bone and when the bit is pulled it goes into the bone and is cutting the tissue I guess. And the bit hurts the whole face because there are very sensitive nerves in the mouth that connect to the whole face. And yes a mechanical hackamore is horrible.
Sophiahorsetrainer 13 first off, it’s a “bridle”. Secondly, point by point, saying that something was “made to cause pain, that is their whole design no matter what” is a pretty nonsensical statement. I assume you are simply regurgitating one of the UA-cam “experts” who promote that train of thought using their own uninformed opinion as a basis of fact. If you really are willing to learn, keep your mind open, and exercise critical and analytical thinking to form your own opinion, then you might check out our 5 1/2 hour video on bits and bitting on our website. You have no idea yet just how much you don’t yet know, but you could.
Ow.....I never used a snaffle. Mine was always a straight bar bit. And yeah..they chew the bit if they are comfortable. Some folks think that looks bad, and they tighten the headstall too tight. That's how horses mouths get ruined. And that causes horse misbehavior. My horse never ever refused the bit either. When they do that something is wrong. Right....hand use is proper. Which is why I always neck reigned. Plow reign is just too hard and can caused pain. I had to have the wolf teeth of my horse taken out as they got impacted. But the bit never hit them. The Hack that came with my horse I tossed without ever using it. I won't use a hack. Ever.
Thomas F you are correct about how the spine ties in fairly low. However, the "withers" are actually spinal processes. The withers are a part of the spine. Nice observation and there is actually an error in how this skeleton was put back together by the man who gave it to me. When I first started reading your comment, I thought you were going to be the one who caught it. Lol
Ok, let me just say this. Horses have much thinner skin than humans, if you put a bit in your mouth and had someone pull on it like they were riding it hurts. Which that would also conclude that the bit hurts horses. There is also a nerve in the horses mouth that the bit sits directly on, this nerve is in humans as well and when this nerve is touched it causes serve pain as well as it has caused suicide. Imagine that in your mouth? Pressing on that nerve? Getting yanked on or even just sitting in your mouth and a person randomly yanking on it even when you don't know what they were asking because you can't understand them.
Wolfie Corn158 horse hide is leather. It is, in fact, far thicker than ours. There are many nerves in the horse’s mouth. The one I suspect you’re referring to is the lingual nerve. Most bits have tongue relief specifically to avoid that nerve. There’s a lot more to this than you apparently understand. You can either choose to educate yourself from someone who actually does understand the factors at play, or you can keep listening to ignorant and arrogant people shouting “FIRE BAD!”
@@DanielDauphin Hello, horses hide may be leather but the leather is very thin, far thinner than my skin and yours in fact. About the special bit that meant to not touch the nerve I have done much research but I have never heard of that. I will reassure you that I will surely do more research on this. Thank you and have a great day.
I don't disagree, however bits do give too many inexperienced riders a false sense of security. I wish people would learn good horsemanship before they commence to riding with a bit. Too many abused horses out there.
I didn't kill him... and I've yet to meet an immortal horse. There isn't a veterinarian out there who didn't learn to do surgeries or learn about anatomy on a cadaver. Most farriers have or should have dissected a cadaver leg. He could have been buried, but now he's been a part of teaching over 70k people. This skull has directly been a part of improving life for many, many horses because their owners now understand a lot more about him. That's a good thing in my book and nobody is forcing you to watch either.
*Cough* I don't know why everyone thinks you NEED a bit to ride/control a horse. You actually don't. Bits hurt horses. They can cause bleeding, and other things. When I see horses being riden in bits (Mostly harsher bits) I wince. I want all riders in the equine comunity to ride bitless. Also, if shows/competitions could accept bitless bridles/hackamores that would be amazing. Edit: This is ALL my opinion.
See people bits don’t train horses this is what really educational people do but the thing is you really don’t need meds is basically what he saying so why use them just because it me it’s tradition that we use bets doesn’t mean it’s right
I appreciate the information you provide on this video. The use of the horse skull greatly helps a viewer understand your comments. I especially appreciate your comments on the dangers of adjusting a bit too tightly, the dangers of a mechanical hackamore, and the fact that even a bitless bridle can prove harmful when used incorrectly.
I have sometimes work with horse with were labelled as "unworkable", "Strong on the bit", "heavy on the bit". The first thing, I did was loosen the bit, let the horse get use to it and then riding it. Bam! Wonderful horse to work it. Have seen and worked with this multiple times. It is so important with the bit placement and bit types.
I've been riding more than 50 years and never understood the horses skeleton until this moment. Thank you so much sir.
I ride bitless, personnal preference. Many people that ride with bits are telling me "you can't stop your horse without a bit!" and my answer is always "bits won't stop horses that don't want to stop" because a scared, terrified horse, in a blind run, won't stop because they have a bit... A horse would stop because they learned to listen to you in any situation, and to focus on you rather than their fears, and that's the same bitless or bridless. Education is the key in any case. I can stop a horse from galop with only a rope around the neck, because usually I only use my balance to stop, and in emergency case, to ask more clearly to stop I use the rope, by gently pulling on it, just enough to make sure the horse feels it. People don't realize that they can ride their horses using only their legs and balance (except for jumping, because your position doen't allow you to use your balance properly).
That is VERY TRUE. Spend more time with horse and teach the horse to obey NOT BECAUSE OF PAIN but BECAUSE OF UNDERSTANDING, so your horse will be much HAPPIER AND HEALTHIER.
EXACTLY. Finally someone who says what I want to tell people all the time.
Agreed. I'll add that there are actually a lot of riders out there that can jump with nothing, not even a rope. Amazing!
That is true but it takes many hours of riding to control a horse by legs or at least it did my mare
You are a great horseman. You know exactly what you are talking about an anyone who says otherwise or that bits do not hurt are idiots
Daniel, You have a gift! Common sense, well thought out lessons of easily received info and you present it so well even a half wit like me understands and learned something! You saved a relationship with a horse I nearly gave up on!
Jerry Ferdun thank you for the kind words. I'm very glad that the video was helpful for you and your horse!
I found this really interesting, particularly the part about how low a bit should be fitted. I take lessons at a riding school, the day after I watched this video, I was at the stables for my lesson, and I noticed on the horse I was about to ride his bridle was fitted so tight it was pulling the bit (single jointed eggbutt snaffle) right up into the corners of his mouth, so much so you could hardly pull it up any more. I dropped it a couple notches and swear that horse breathed a sigh of relief! Could probably gone lower, now I rewatch this. I'd ridden the same horse horse last week (the stables usually puts us on varying horses) and this time he was so much better, much more flexion, less resistance, just much softer in general. I'm convinced that dropping the bit down made all the difference, I'll definitely look out for this more in the future, thank you for the advice!
Thank you, this is the best tutorial on youtube regarding bits You've educated me immensely.
I can't like this video enough!! Very informative and the visual aid of the horse skull and rubber band placement was the icing on the cake. I am currently binge watching all of your videos and have already learned many new things. You make the "hows and whys" of horsemanship easy to understand and your sense of humor is just great! Thanks ever so much for taking the time to do these videos!!
phebz2010 thanks for the kind words. Glad you're enjoying them.
Scary when you see how thin and fragile the nasal bone is.
Just came across your video , i have watched a few , don't have knowledge on horses but im a horse enthusiast and you're one of the gew that goes in to depth regarding the horse and how the most of the problems begin with the rider ... thank you for your explanation of the anatomy of the skull of the horse..
Few.
Thank you so much for making this video! It was very informational, I am breaking in my 9 (almost 10) year old mare, she wasn't stopping very well before I watched your video. I realized my fault as a rider after watching your video and I now have much more confidence in the saddle and my horse behaves better as well! Thank you!
I'm glad we could help. Love to hear stuff like this!
Your clear explanation of terms and bit mechanics and especially the part about riding bitless are so helpful. Much appreciated. Thank you!
Bravo! thanks for making the world a better place by creating and sharing this video. excellent and well delivered.
Thanks so much for that video, Daniel. I'm a beginning horseman trying to find my way. And some people come off so callous. Others freak me out and suggest that if I'm not riding bitless and bareback, I'm abusing the horse. I mean, that would be an awesome thing to do, riding bitless and bareback... But I may actually have to get somewhere or jump some things before I've ascended to total horse whispering genius-hood. So It's really helpful to hear someone explain how to use traditional devices with loving care to the horse's anatomy. Learning a lot here. I'll never look at a horse's nose quite the same way again!
Don't listen if your horse isn't trained to that point. You'll end up hurt. So many people try this and end up not so good of a place
Thank you for pointing out the dangers of bitless bridles it's so important.
Very well put. Love it. Some very good points, well placed humour. Thanks
I don't believe in bits period. but I do think this was well said, and good information for someone who is to nervous to ride in a rope halter or doesn't trust their horses enough to do so... I showed this to my sister -who has rough hands and uses a tom thumb- and I also showed your other 2 videos about bits to her and I'm verry happy it changed her way of thinking! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I can see what you are saying about having the bit be more free and lower in the mouth. If horses work on pressure and release, how can they learn if their is constant contact in the mouth, with the bit being raised up higher and tighter.
Having very limited knowledge first I dove into owning horses after retirement with the horses best interest at the forefront. Like you said in this video there are dozens of bit videos some hackamore vids and plenty of opinions to listen to if you choose. Yours is the 1st one to allow me to be the horse so to speak . To understand exactly what would be going on in there. You and baby need a touch of practice but I can't say enough about your message. Signed new subscriber
Here's the thing about not using a bit: They can be cruel but as you point out, that really has to do with how they are used. The only serious argument that I have heard comes from Robert Cook, DVM, who did years of research on thoroughbred race horses and concluded that the spontaneous bleeding from the lungs that happens in race horses comes from the bit not allowing a seal with the horses lips of his mouth. Since horses don't breath through their mouths they need to seal their mouths. The bit breaks this seal and makes their breathing like trying to drink with a straw that has a hole in the side of it. Presumably, when the horse is at maximum exertion, racing, jumping, doing upper level dressage, this 'leak' causes his lungs to work too hard and ruptures blood vessels in his lungs.
What controls a horse is not a bit but trust and training. Being that bits are not necessary for anything we ask them to do, it seems intrusive to be shoving one in their mouth. But that's entirely subjective. I too have dealt with horses who seemed more comfortable with a bit but with a bit of patience and time that need to hang on to something in their mouth can be transitioned to bitless. What I've found, at least int he small sample I've worked with is that all the horses who seemed to want a bit were horses who were weighted to their front ends. It's as though the bit gave them something to hold onto so they didn't fall forward. A couple of weeks of teaching them to put their weight over their hind end (and conditioning their abdominal muscles to do this) has solved their need for a bit.
However, horses, as prey animals and plains animals, are submissive and learn to hide pain. This makes it very difficult for us, as predators, to be sensitive to a horse's needs. When an owner sees a horse object to having something put in his mouth, and just ignores that, well, they're ignoring the horse saying "I'd rather not, thank you very much." But the owner insists and the horse's nature makes him submit. And if he doesn't, he gets a bad rap as a 'bad' horse and all that entails.
I teach my students to stay out of their horses mouth, the the reins are supporting aids and not primary. The seat, legs and upper body, are primary with reins supporting the aids unless one is at a stand still and turning 90 or 180 degrees.
Any student that left a welt on a horses nose would be severly beaten. (just kidding, Mom's).
Nice video and use of a horse to demo the concepts.
We discuss the airflow and suction thing in "A Bit About Bits Part 3". Dr Cook was also selling you something, was he not? Any salesman will have a great sounding argument as to why YOU NEED their product...
Notice that I am selling you nothing.
+Daniel Dauphin Of course you're selling me something. Don't be silly. You're selling me an idea, you're selling me your expertise. Whether I buy into you ideas or not is just as important or not important to you as whether or not I buy one of Dr Cook's bridles is to him, but to impugn his character and suggest that his work is based upon trying to gen up sales is a nasty thing to do. The idea of 'Sealing the horses mouth' is one that stands or falls with the research, not with sales numbers. And I bought one of his bridles long before hearing anything about this notion of sealing the mouth. I continue to experiment with various bridles, all bitless.
My experience says that horses are smart enough to learn an awful lot and there is no magic to equipment. The equipment one chooses to use should be comfortable for the horse, not go against his biology and be clear if the purpose is communication. Whatever one chooses to use or not use there is an obligation to recognize the comfort and well being of the horse is paramount, followed closely by the safety of the rider. The more we can be aware of the horse's needs, such as the need to move and not keep them in a stall, letting them out for a half hour of day to run around in a paddock, the better off our horses will be and the happier both horse and rider will be. All of this stems from a 'Train for Trust' philosophy. If there's any magic, it's in that. Etc.
+Equs Narnd I don't disagree with any point you just made with the exception of Dr Cook. I have seen video of his teaching, but not met him personally. In my opinion, he uses bad information ago with good facts and has an overall negative impact. I consider him to be a charlatan and snake oil salesman. His entire cause is based off of examples of the worst horsemanship one can possibly find.
Equs Narnd dr cook is the most biased source ever. He said bits and all bitless bridles are bad except for his bridle. He obviously just wants to market a product. The best one yet is from Hilary Clayton. She supports bitless but only for horses who like it. I know 29 horses and only 2 are ridden bitless because they dislike bits
Equs Narnd
www.google.com/amp/s/www.equisearch.com/.amp/HorseJournal/dr-hilary-clayton-offers-many-prescriptions-for-bits-4841#ampshare=www.equisearch.com/HorseJournal/dr-hilary-clayton-offers-many-prescriptions-for-bits-4841
scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Hilary+clayton+bit&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DhM8VgFR-soIJ
m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=555826984465272&id=188817027832938&set=pb.188817027832938.-2207520000.1450094554.
www.equusuniversalis.com/world/index.php/free-articles/item/37-bitless-is-not-always-bitless
patents.google.com/patent/US2804740A/en
These are all quotes from The Ultimate Book of Horse Bits by Emily Esterson
''The bitless hackamore uses the same kind of pressure as a curb bit, without a mouthpiece.'' Pg 47 pic caption
''Mechanical hackamores, like all leverage bits, can be quite harsh in the wrong hands. I fact, a nisused mechanical hackamore can break a horse's nose.'' Pg 131
''There are several kinds of hackamore nosebands, and like bits, they can also range from mild to severe.'' Pg 131
''The trigeminal nerve, or C5, is said to be responsible for much of the feeling in the horse's mouth and muzzle'' (aka the nose has just as much feeling as the mouth.) Pg 30
''Some mechanical hacks can be harsher than a bitted bridle, and in the wrong hands can do some serious damage to a horse's nose cartilage - a sensitive and relatively soft structure.'' Pg 48
Thank you for the good explanation. I ride with bits and brideless. Sometimes a horse is so irritate by a bit, that it can be easier to educate without it. I think it depends to the horse which object you have to use. Like your attitude- enjoy life!
This video came around at just the right time for me and my horse. Thank you.
Great information! I'm an inexperienced rider, and your videos are some of the best out there man! You've been a huge help in getting me comfortable with my horse. If you ever find yourself fairly close to El Paso I'd love to attend a clinic! I'm active duty military so traveling too far is something I can't do. Looking forward to your next vid!
I’m a newbie to riding. That was fascinating...and very sensible, i.e., looking beyond shallow thinking. Thanks.
Thanks for posting. I'm going riding for the first time in 45 years, even though I've had my best horse ever for 14 years, we've never ridden together. So Saturday I'm going with a group to learn all of this again.
Great information! Because of your videos I know what bit would be best to start my horse in and can't thank you enough for it!
I think you are 💯 right on the money with bit placement.. I’m going to try it tomorrow. Thank you.
I discovered you by accident when I was searching for info on the proper spurs I should use. After watching your spur video I was hooked on your very informative explanations and now subscribe to your videos♥️
Thanks! We're glad you found us.
Thank you for teaching about the nerve bundle on the face! You are the first trainer I have heard point this out.
Im enjoying your walk threw the bit explanations but mostly your explanation of a mechanical hackamore I hate them and I so glad to see your answer on them hopefully some of the users of them will see your explanation and learn thanks again
Your videos are so helpful and truly informative, big thanks🐴💖
Excellent video...thanks for confirming what I believed all along, just didn't know why.
Dan thanks for trying to get the word out on bad bits and bad hands, it has been one of my pet peeves for decades. At one time I even purchased some bitless bridles trying to avoid bad hands on my horses ( flat racers) but alas to no avail. They maybe be suitable to certain types of pleasure pony but not suitable to finely tuned race horses. There is a whole other issue with the bit up too tight and with bad hands, will cause epiglotic displacement but that is a whole new subject, keep up the good work
Everything was very well said, thanks for the information!
Thank you again. You helped me put into words all of the things I believe. Awesome.
Great Video! You do a great job of explaining and teaching!
Great video! Thank you for sharing with us sir.
I was doing research so this was very helpful :-)
I have the side-pull bitless and, too, a French-link--I gently use either piece of equipment with my mares and get good results. To me, it is all about staying teachable and developing horsemanship.
Great objective discussion and demonstration. Thank you.
Very interesting to see the anatomy relative to the bit position. Thanks
I've been thinking about taking riding lessons as a beginner and I just want to get an idea of what I'm getting into before I get into it! Lol but anyway, this video was very educational! Much appreciated!
I’m on here doing the same thing. I feel I am old (32) getting into it and so am researching a lot so I at least know basics.
Thank you! What a wonderful video
I am really interested about the idea of 'DROPPING' the bit most people position it up higher. Thank you so much :)
I love the way you put things in perspective , and tell it like it is , thank you , you have help me understand about bit what a eye opener
Hello Daniel,I have just watched the bit series and am very thankful for the Information! I had always kept the snaffle bits low in the mouth but was unsure about doing this with leverage bits. Some time in the past I had also read or heard that the shain should not be too loose or the bit would turn too far Forward in the horses mouth. But your Explanation is great! With a bit looser chain the horse can respnd first to the lip and tongue pressure before the chain engages. How obvious! I was always wondering what I was doing wwrong that cause the horse to raise it's head when I use a leverage bit( even gently). i tried These Thing out immediately ; lowered the bit and lengthend the chain, with great results! my horse was way more relaxed. Thank-you so muich for all These insights.
Thanks for the info I am new to the horse world and I thought about going bit less with my horse 😳but now I understand much better why bits are better that nose bone is really so sensitive.
Thank you I really enjoyed this video I’m always trying to learn hopefully it will help my pony be more comfortable
very interesting video. thank you for sharing this with us :) when i get my horse, i will have the bit lower and not pushing against the horses mouth. how do you know that the bit isn't too low?
I find that the mouthpiece and headstall tend to form a right angle when adjusted properly. For some, that may be too loose, but I definitely don’t want to see a wrinkle. I also don’t want to see the bit so low that it could hit canines, incisors, or fall out of the mouth. Start with no wrinkle and loosen the bridle one hole at a time. Usually 1-2 holes looser than one wrinkle is good.
@@DanielDauphin ok thankyou for your quick response :) this will be my first horse so i will be quite unsure of what is right for the horse. i have done lots of research but I'm afraid that the horse wont like me and that i will do lots of stuff wrong
@@feywinter387 you will do lots of stuff wrong and it will still be just fine and you can still have a lot of fun and enjoy your horse.
Awesome explanation. Thank you so much!
“Go ahead and zoom in baby...”. I love your direction!
Daniel I've watched all four of your bitting videos and they are BY FAR the best information out there -- better than any book I've found or any video I've purchased. They are very specific, thoughtful and you answer most of the questions I've had for years. I'm wondering if you are going to do one on tongue relief, because that's a big issue that I just don't understand. I ride with a comfort snaffle made by one of the big companies (the mouthpiece is similar to the Billy Allen you show in one of the videos). It has no port at all, and it is not tipped forward, so does that mean it provides no tongue relief and my horse is having a hard time swallowing with it in his mouth? FWIW, he does not seem bothered by the bit, really, but when we're riding at a walk, he carries his head and neck low (below wither height). It comes up some if I push him to a faster walk, but I'm wondering if that could have anything to do with the bit. I think you mentioned doing a video on tongue relief and I'm hoping you do. I have other questions for you, but that's the biggie. The other ones, I'll post one at a time. Thanks!
I do have plans for a video on tongue relief. Thanks for the kind words. Feel free to share with your friends.
Hey Dan :) i appreciate the videos you are putting out, and I definitely appreciate the subtle yet unmistakable sarcasm throughout them all! I have been a "horse lover" my whole life but its' just been in the past year my dream of being a horse owner has come true. Long story short, I am finding my way with the help of friends and videos such as yours. It is sooo true that one must find their own way with their horse, trial and error mostly, tons of common sense, and most importantly to me a desire to enjoy my horse that is safe for me and not harmful to him. I am loving this and once again thanks for the simple and informative videos.. keep them coming! You have a blessed day also!
+Aline King Oh I forgot! the videos on bits was extremely helpful to me....It helped me decide which bit to change Beau to and reenforced the truth that each horse is different and you have to find what works best! (not simply use the one your "forceful" horse friend has always used!! lol
Here is our video that gets into Tongue Relief if you have not already seen it. ua-cam.com/video/vDnhyqCCOeI/v-deo.html
I love your videos! I am a novice rider and happy to know how bits work. I'm confused about the loose o ring snaffle bit opposed to a shank solid port bit (I think that's what it's called) It seems to me when you apply pressure pulling back on a snaffle bit, the joint of the mouthpiece hit the roof of the horses mouth and cause sharp pain. The solid port bit seems as though the smooth curved piece hits the roof of the horses mouth not causing sharp pain. I understand it's the hands of the rider but don't you think smooth pressure on the roof of the mouth is better than the joint of the snaffle bit. I myself ride without contact on my horses, she responds well with voice commands and just learning about seat cues.
+Frances McCarthy Snaffles are not capable of poking the roof of the horse's mouth. This is a myth that gets perpetuated, but has been disproved by x-rays and good sense. Here's a link to a video that we did on this exact topic.
ua-cam.com/video/Db35et7U1Q0/v-deo.html
Who is the maker of your sweet iron o ring snaffle bit? like your videos very informative and helpful :)
Love your humor!! Thank you :-)
"This is where it all goes south.." LOL!
Great video!
Good advice.
Thanks for all the info man!!
What do you recommend for a stallion face?
I am not sure what you’re asking. What’s a stallion face?
I thought every bitless bridle was supposed to fit right above where the thin nasal bone ends (where it basically connects to the rest of the skull) to avoid pressure being put on that thin nasal bone... and I agree with what you're saying, bits don't cause damage unless the rider is harsh with that bit, and it's the same for bitless bridles. I'm thinking about using a side pull on my horse since before she was only ridden with a bitless bridle before, I won't always use a bitless bridle, but I want to try it out just so maybe she can be comfortable since that's what she was always ridden in
Would you be willing to explain in more detail the Tom thumb bit, I will be honest that I have had great success with them not really knowing what it was called and I have seen others using them and we probably don't know what we are doing in their mouths. I have found your videos by trying to understand bits better as they are sort of glossed over in most books I have read. Thank you so much for all your help.
deanna l if you'll check out our video on transition bits, towards the end, I discuss the pitfalls of the true Tom Thumb and the slight modifications that improve it.
also, when I search the internet there seems to be a variety of types considered to be Tom thumb. I am just trying to further understand so I know what I am using.
Welcome to the internet and the massive amounts of bad information that you can find. Here's a link to the video I referenced. Go to about 33 minutes in for the Tom Thumb info. A Tom Thumb is a pretty specific bit with a single jointed mouthpiece, a particular union of cheeks to mouthpiece, and a specific cheek design with a certain leverage ratio and shape. ua-cam.com/video/TTyM22UU6CY/v-deo.html
Could you do a video on gag bit and how they work? Like the mechanics of them? Plz🙂🙏
The mare I had that couldn't seem to breath with a bit in her mouth...the leather bosal/sidepull I used would cause her lips to flap...from pain. because she was strong and I had to remind her to settle down once in a while. So, bitless did have pain involved.
Do you have a video about a curve bit?
A Bit About Bits part 3
ua-cam.com/video/vDnhyqCCOeI/v-deo.html
A Bit About Bits Part 2
ua-cam.com/video/TTyM22UU6CY/v-deo.html
Interesting video, thank you for recording it. My horse does not seem to "take" the bit and hold it in her mouth. When she was younger, the bit came out off the sides of her mouth when I tried to turn. Would you be able to explain why? She's a bit better now but I must admit I made the mistake to pull the bit too high in her mouth thinking that would hold it in place. I don't think she's comfortable with that though considering the amount of head tossing I get when I ride her. Any advice welcome 🙂
Fifi Meli Green check out our video on slobber/curb straps
Can you please tell me, what bit and bridle brand are you using in this video? I'm about to purchase very first bridle with bit for my horse and I woild like to get this one. Thank you.
Very, very informative. Thanks.
I like the way you think.
In fact a mechanical hackamore, correctly adjusted should have the upper edge of the noseband resting against or one finger width below the cheekbone which is way above the delicate nasal bone and sensitive soft tissues and nerves found in the lower muzzle. In jumping, most times the nosebands of the mechanical hackamores and the curbstraps are padded with sheepskin and/or are made of padded leather.
At most gynkhanas and such is where you see nosebands of mechanical hackamores riding too low on the nose. The problem is the owners, when choosing a headstall choose one with longer cheekpieces designed for use with a bit. owners need educating to choose headstalls with shorter cheekpieces to raise the hackamore high enough not to damage the horses sensitive muzzle or lower face tissues.
Good video that shows a horse's skull and where things are. A horse with a bit adjusted too low that it has to "Hold it up" with its tongue to keep it in a comfortable spot, creates a horse with a clamped mouth and tighter jaw.
Just saying.
Ma'am, I won't argue your pontifications on the mechanical hack. I always say that if your horse is happy, then I am too. It is rare that I see a well behaved, happy and obedient horse wearing one. They are most often incorrectly adjusted, as you have said, and can wreak havoc and cause permanent damage.
As the the lower bit position causing a clamped mouth and tighter jaw, you simply could not be more wrong.
Great information.. Thank you!!
I have often said that I don't like mechanical hackamores and that they can be harsher than a bit.
I was just watching this video and thinking how great it is and was going to leave a lengthy comment, but I see that I did that already -- three years ago! So I'll spare you another essay. I'll just say these two things. One is that I appreciate SO MUCH that you don't recommend hiking the bit up so that there's a permanent wrinkle in the corner of the horse's mouth. That pressure, that the horse can't get away from, makes no sense to me and yet many supposed experts still do it. The second thing is that you don't seem to be a bit snob. You have said on multiple videos that you can do almost all of what you ever need to do with a horse with a loose ring single joined snaffle. I know you also use a shanked correction bit, but what bugs me is people who think that a rider isn't really riding and horse doesn't really know anything unless they're going in a "bridle" (shanked bit). I certainly understand that refinements are possible with a shanked bit that may not be achievable with a snaffle, but I don't appreciate the idea that us snaffle riders & horses are clueless. Maybe you think that, as well; but if you do -- thanks for not saying it!!
I mean well yes hacks do have more leverage that dont mean that’s the way it works with dr cooks or riding in a halter. I believe in with any animal a quick pressure and release. There are way way more nerve endings in the mouth than on the outer of the body.
If the bit doesn't touch the horse's teeth, explain to me why so many horses chew through rubber bits and happy mouth bits
Where the bit sits in "neutral" is not near the teeth, as is illustrated in the video. The horse can suck the bit up into it's mouth and chew on it. A rider pulling excessively on the bit can also get it so far back that it hits teeth. You just shouldn't be there. In my experience, horses do not like those types of bits and so they chew on them. If you've ever had braces or remember losing a tooth as a kid, you mess with what annoys you. A horse chewing on a bit is absolutely NOT A GOOD THING and I would be taking steps to find out what the problem is and change it. Our Bit Basics/Snaffles video goes more in depth on the subject.
Oh, okay. Thanks. My horse doesn't chew through them but I've seen it happen so was just curious
Is this real skull?
Bits do cause pain, that is their job, this is what they were invented to do. The theory is to control the horse with a pain device and the bit is one of the pain devices invented to control the horse. Yes, heavy hands will make the pain worse but even a good rider with very quiet hands will still cause pain when or if the horse spooks, if the rider falls off and many other times the good rider will pull back hard on the reins when they don't really mean to. Riding bitless is the right thing to do. You don't need a bit. Some think that if a horse runs off with you that you can stop the horse by pulling back on the reins and becasue of the bit he will stop. This is not true. The horse will just run through the reins. When it comes to turning the horse using your legs properly to queue the horse and then using your seat properly is the correct way to turn the horse. Once I realized I don't need a bit to turn my horse and the bit will never stop my horse then I asked: "what do you need a bit for." The answer is NOTHING! So why take a chance of causing pain to your horse? Logic tells the smart rider that bits are not needed if you know how to ride properly.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and the wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell
Since you're obviously passionate about this issue, I invite you to start making videos on your channel. You can use your obvious knowledge and those upper level skills to illustrate and educate. Then, you won't have to worry about people like me spreading all this "pain propaganda"...I've gone ahead and subscribed and I look forward to learning from such an expert as yourself...
I would love to make videos and post them here on youtube. Unfortunately, I was robbed of my ability to walk several years back and must rely on others for everything I can't do. I am blessed in that I am still able to ride I just need several people to help me mount and dismount. I can't figure out how to do the video thing but I did love your suggestion and I am trying to figure out who may be able to help me with this project. You are so correct when you said that I am passionate about not using pain devices. I think one reason I am so passionate is that I suffer chronic pain, therefore, I can't stand it when anyone or any animal is or could be in pain. I know you don't think bits cause pain. I would bet there is nothing I can say that would change your mind just like there is nothing you can say that would make me believe bits don't cause pain. I just want to help horses have better lives. The horse world is full of people who do horrible things to horses when they are trying to control their horse. If I could convince horse-people they can ride safely without a bit I believe horses would be better off. I do thank you for your suggestion of making videos. May God bless you.
I'm sorry for your situation. I would simply suggest a couple of things regarding the "pain". First off, I"ll bet that doctors, physical therapists, nurses, etc. have caused you plenty of it. Horses have to deal with the same thing from veterinarians, equine dentists, and other horse health specialists. In the service of their duties, those people intentionally and knowingly cause horses pain all day, every day. Hopefully, if they are skilled in their efforts, the horse will also feel a relief after the "work" has been completed. If you've ever watched a horse receive a chiropractic adjustment, you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that they are comfortable while being contorted and cracked. They do, however, do lots of licking and chewing and take many deep breaths of relaxation following. In short, lots of things that are good and necessary have some pain associated with them. Coggins tests, vaccinations, dealing with wounds, abscesses, and all manner of physical issues all involve causing intentional pain for the greater, long term good. I have tens of thousands of hours in a saddle, pulling on reins with various bits attached. Can they cause pain? Absolutely. Is causing pain with a bit the ACTUAL purpose of them? Absolutely not! You'd be hard pressed to sit and watch me work horses for days on end and attempt to point out the horses showing signs of pain or even discomfort. Might there be a moment in time, here and there, when I need to make a stern point to a horse, through the bit? I unapologetically say again, absolutely! On a permanent or chronic basis, however, your argument is completely wrong. When we do see people with issues using their hands improperly, the solution is to educate them. Changing what is on the other end of the reins is folly. Their methodology will still be very poor and the problems will persist or worsen anyway. The particular apparatus on the horse's head at those moments of poor handling wouldn't change a thing assuming that the apparatus was reasonable in the first place. It's still pressure and release to whatever degree is needed. I don't view that as any different at all from a veterinarian who needs to stick one with a needle in order to ensure his long and healthy life. Life involves pain. Pain is not the end of the world. I"m not going to separate my herd because one of them might be bitten or kicked by another. That's foolish and contrary to any horse's actual wishes. I'm sorry that you are in a situation where you deal with pain chronically. I can assure you that after over 20 years and over 1000 head of colts under my belt, plus thousands more horses worked with, I have a few aches and pains as well. I still get up and go to work. I'm not excusing people who are actually abusive and cruel. I'm simply saying that the premise that changing from a bit in the mouth to an apparatus elsewhere is not even one micro degree different. You are using pressure to motivate and control the animal, sometimes against his wishes. Plain and simple. This whole "bits are cruel" movement was spawned by junk science from people who wanted to sell you something and they had to find a way to convince you to buy it, and it is being passed on by charlatans and the gullible to people who have soft hearts and mean well, but don't actually know what they are talking about, and I can and do absolutely prove it. Meanwhile, people who actually do know what they are talking about have to defend themselves constantly because some 14 year old heard that bits were abusive and cruel and wants to publicly call them out... I was being polite, but your entire opening comment is absolutely fraught with misinformation and things that are easily proven false. I certainly wasn't joking about your obvious passion. I would hope that you'd use that passion to seek Truth and use logic and reason to evaluate it, rather than emotion and pseudoscience.
FYI: I read a few comments from others who believe bitless bridles are better for horses. One comment mentioned Dr. Cooke, VMD. You told this person you thought DR. Cooke was spreading misinformation only to sale his bitless bridle. I don't know if he only cares about selling his bridle but I really don't like his bridle. I like "side-pull" bridles. Cooks Bridle looks like it could cause pain under the chin by pinching due to tightening under the horse's chin when a rein is pulled on but not loosening back up once the pulling of the rein had stopped. I have never used his bridle and I have never seen his bridle other than in pictures. I have read a description of his bridle on a site that sells his bridles. It was the pictures along with the description that made me believe his bridle causes pain under the chin instead of in the mouth. I would tell anyone the "side-pull" bitless bridles are totally pain-free for the horse. I would never use any other type of bitless bridle. The side-pull bridle seems to be the best for the horse as far as I know. The hackamore may be totally pain-free but I really don't know.
REBECCA ANDERSON did you catch the part about the Arabian gelding with the 1/2" of scar tissue around his nose from the bitless bridle? I wasn't there, but I somehow doubt that was a pain free experience...Educating the rider's hands is THE ONLY solution.
I do bit less completely different horse and love it.
I can see your concern with mechanical hackamores, and maybe hackamores in general, but all things used to ride horses in, besides the saddle, are used to make a horse uncomfortable.
You don’t need a bit. My ancestors never had bits. Lol bit’s didn’t show up until thousands of years later.
Spend time with your horses. Aho’. And have a blessed day.
As you mention about the procesus masalis (fragile nose bones) which are held together in a flat stitch joint by cartilage, it was found by a forensic scientist that joint can fracture or break under the pressure of one human finger, so yes bitless bridles can cause bad damage to those fragile nose bones. Under those nose bones is attached an optical nerve, so if there is fracture of the cartilage or breakage and someone continues to use a bitless bridle or pull on a halter that is applying pressure to those bone, the bones can begin to move and when they do this they irritate the optical nerve. Metal bits can also pose a few problems in triggering neurocranial shock against the outlets of the trigeminal nerve and other facial nerves in the mouth. The mouth is highly wired with all kinds of nerves, even the bit seat if the lip is folded over it is not folded over all the time every time pressure it applied to the bit and the only thing that exists between the unyielding metal of the bit and that razor sharp lower jaw bone is nerve wired mucus membranes. There are flexible rubber bits, but most of them are made rather thick, while that would help ensure less pressure to nerves it takes some horses a while to get used to them.
No mechanical hacks. No broken-mouth snaffles. And most people should not be riding with bosals because they aren't skilled enough to understand how the leverage works and they end up torking the horse wrong at the poll. They think bosals look cool and they wreck the horse. Bosals take a lot of experience and skill to use correctly on many levels. Good video, overall. I like this trainer's demeanor.
that is why I use the straight bits not the ones that bend.
Thanks
people who hate information he tells are just ignorant people who arent worth those beautifull elegant horses cause they lack even knowledge..
Bits are made to cause pain, that is their whole design no matter what.
Sophiahorsetrainer 13 why on Earth would you believe that? Emotionally charged arguments aren’t arguments at all. They are tantrums.
Dauphin Horsemanship you don’t need a bit. They cause pain and you need a bond with your horse. If you want to bond with your horse than you should not Stick a pain bit in their mouths
Also, the bit actives the food response and you do not want a horse exercising and “eating”
Also, if I had a bit I couldn’t ride because my horse would be in so much pain. I ride in a bitless bridal and I can do everything that I need to do, you put the bit on a very sharp bone and when the bit is pulled it goes into the bone and is cutting the tissue I guess. And the bit hurts the whole face because there are very sensitive nerves in the mouth that connect to the whole face. And yes a mechanical hackamore is horrible.
Sophiahorsetrainer 13 first off, it’s a “bridle”. Secondly, point by point, saying that something was “made to cause pain, that is their whole design no matter what” is a pretty nonsensical statement. I assume you are simply regurgitating one of the UA-cam “experts” who promote that train of thought using their own uninformed opinion as a basis of fact. If you really are willing to learn, keep your mind open, and exercise critical and analytical thinking to form your own opinion, then you might check out our 5 1/2 hour video on bits and bitting on our website. You have no idea yet just how much you don’t yet know, but you could.
Ow.....I never used a snaffle. Mine was always a straight bar bit. And yeah..they chew the bit if they are comfortable. Some folks think that looks bad, and they tighten the headstall too tight. That's how horses mouths get ruined. And that causes horse misbehavior. My horse never ever refused the bit either. When they do that something is wrong. Right....hand use is proper. Which is why I always neck reigned. Plow reign is just too hard and can caused pain.
I had to have the wolf teeth of my horse taken out as they got impacted. But the bit never hit them.
The Hack that came with my horse I tossed without ever using it. I won't use a hack. Ever.
What’s that slapping noise?
Your skeleton needs to be 'adjusted'. The neck part of the spine actually connects rather low on the body(chest), not up by the withers.
Thomas F you are correct about how the spine ties in fairly low. However, the "withers" are actually spinal processes. The withers are a part of the spine. Nice observation and there is actually an error in how this skeleton was put back together by the man who gave it to me. When I first started reading your comment, I thought you were going to be the one who caught it. Lol
Ok, let me just say this. Horses have much thinner skin than humans, if you put a bit in your mouth and had someone pull on it like they were riding it hurts. Which that would also conclude that the bit hurts horses. There is also a nerve in the horses mouth that the bit sits directly on, this nerve is in humans as well and when this nerve is touched it causes serve pain as well as it has caused suicide. Imagine that in your mouth? Pressing on that nerve? Getting yanked on or even just sitting in your mouth and a person randomly yanking on it even when you don't know what they were asking because you can't understand them.
Wolfie Corn158 horse hide is leather. It is, in fact, far thicker than ours. There are many nerves in the horse’s mouth. The one I suspect you’re referring to is the lingual nerve. Most bits have tongue relief specifically to avoid that nerve. There’s a lot more to this than you apparently understand. You can either choose to educate yourself from someone who actually does understand the factors at play, or you can keep listening to ignorant and arrogant people shouting “FIRE BAD!”
@@DanielDauphin Hello, horses hide may be leather but the leather is very thin, far thinner than my skin and yours in fact. About the special bit that meant to not touch the nerve I have done much research but I have never heard of that. I will reassure you that I will surely do more research on this. Thank you and have a great day.
Wolfie Corn158 check out the 3 hours of my “bit about bits” series and you’ll have a better understanding on which to base an opinion.
I don't disagree, however bits do give too many inexperienced riders a false sense of security. I wish people would learn good horsemanship before they commence to riding with a bit. Too many abused horses out there.
Is that a real horse skull 0.0
+Flowerlily12 of course...
Daniel Dauphin oh jeez....poor horse
I didn't kill him... and I've yet to meet an immortal horse. There isn't a veterinarian out there who didn't learn to do surgeries or learn about anatomy on a cadaver. Most farriers have or should have dissected a cadaver leg.
He could have been buried, but now he's been a part of teaching over 70k people. This skull has directly been a part of improving life for many, many horses because their owners now understand a lot more about him. That's a good thing in my book and nobody is forcing you to watch either.
i hope 12 is your age if you say something like that.
Shaara1 are u talking to me??
very good videoo
You really haven't got it have you!
Pardon?
*Cough* I don't know why everyone thinks you NEED a bit to ride/control a horse. You actually don't. Bits hurt horses. They can cause bleeding, and other things. When I see horses being riden in bits (Mostly harsher bits) I wince. I want all riders in the equine comunity to ride bitless. Also, if shows/competitions could accept bitless bridles/hackamores that would be amazing.
Edit: This is ALL my opinion.
Nadine, thank you for your opinion. I urge you to educate yourself on this. You are off base on this.
@@jbarjj2715 How so?
can I get a hours
can I get a horse please
Dan will loose placement of a snaffle bit very touch the canine teeth
Dan Amodeo it shouldn't be that loose.
See people bits don’t train horses this is what really educational people do but the thing is you really don’t need meds is basically what he saying so why use them just because it me it’s tradition that we use bets doesn’t mean it’s right
We make horse bits
2 years old thoroughbred horse? Wow sad he died that young.