Hi friends! It was such a pleasure and honor to do this interview with two such smart and passionate guys. Their tight edit also made me sound a lot smarter than I am. I’ve conducted over a thousand musician interviews myself during my years working for the magazines, and man, I wish I had Jack and Ryan on staff back then! Thanks too for everyone’s kind words! They mean even more to me than you might suppose. 💕
@@bernsense Far from it, though I appreciate the sentiment! (I say that with authority, because I’m in Salt Lake City right now playing with the guitar octet Another NIght on Earth and the Utah Symphony. I’m kinda the weakest link. Jiji Kim … Daniele Gottardo … Steve Mackie … Them’s the real geniuses. :)
Thanks Joe! It was so interesting and inspirational to watch this. I would love to hear more about what you have learned studying medieval music. Also since you're into Afrobeat, check out Thandiswa Mazwai's recent set on Tiny Desk, blew my mind.
@@Harrier_DuBois Thanks - I just did! What a lovely voice. It’s not afrobeat - that style comes from Nigeria, and the Africans I played with were mostly from there and Ghana. But that South African style is a HUGE primal influence for me. One of my strongest childhood musical memories was hearing my mom’s Miriam Makeba albums. (She was a Xhosa singer from SA who achieved international popularity in the 1960s.) I’ve loved this one for well over 50 years: ua-cam.com/video/sfQp_W9NIQ8/v-deo.html Years later, when my attachment to classical music was fraying, I became obsessed with South African pop, especially anything that featured guitarist Marks Mankwane, still one of my absolute faves. Like this one: ua-cam.com/video/Y7Kn6UF1-6s/v-deo.html I spent many, many hours learning to play in this style. Meanwhile, it’s the 30th anniversary of Malcolm McClaren’s brilliant and bizarre Duck Rock album. He went to South and worked with Zulu musicians years before Paul Simon - and ripped them off just as much! Notice any similarity between this song and the one above? (BTW, Duck Rock is also one of Tchad Blake’s favorite albums.) ua-cam.com/video/q7bw51Aya-4/v-deo.html Yeah, same song, with McClaren singing nonsense words that sound vaguely like the Zulu lyrics. I love this brilliant Trevor Horn production almost as much as I do the rootsy original. But McClaren stole the songwriting credit and didn’t even list the album’s non-British musicians, like whoever this amazing guitarists is. (Could it have been Mankwane?) Anyway, Zulu and Xhosa music has been part of my sonic mindscape since my grade-school years. :)
I can only see the first part of your reply, the rest is hidden for some reason, but yeah I know it's not really Afrobeat but it is African Jazz. I like Fela Kuti and what his son is doing these days is really cool too, I've played his video of Opposite People with Newen Afrobeat so many times.
Thank you for not limiting this to a theory class. The magic of deadwax is the history and anecdotes of the brilliant artists. Thanks and keep up the great work! Much Love, B
Oh my good god. 1. That tone. 2. Music knowledge that makes me feel completely useless as a player, yet also makes me want to start from the beginning and better my knowledge. 3. Stories of Tom. 4. The way of working so quickly to deliver brilliance. 5. The small detour into medieval music history! 6. I just want hear more about the other songs Joe played on Bone Machine - with examples. Great video. More like this please.
Don’t say that about your “uselessness,” Josh! Every guitarist has something unique about their playing - the trick is to find that voice. My path happened to run through theory-heavy academia, so I went with that. But few of my favorite players can even read music, let alone drone on about music theory.
This interview had me absolutely floored start to finish. From the simple revelation of the trem part being a single guitar part (and not an easy one to pull off) to bringing Messiaen and crunchy pre-tonal concepts into a conversation about a Tom Waits track? Unbelievable.
@@joe_gore Yes, and it was pitch perfect. Love what you do. Can you post a link to your record? I was surprised there isn't one, but maybe I missed it.
We all should remain "amateurs", however professional we are. The word "amateur" stems from "amare"/"aimer" - "love". So an amateur is someone who loves what they're doing. A compliment, really.
My wife ran into Tom Waits decades ago at a Goodwill in LA. He was talking to the clerk in the same growling voice, and he said, “I’d like to buy a poncho”.
I think the windscreen guitar sequence is a great example of discussing emotion/feeling rather than solutions. If you go "Drop the guitar by -3db" then you are proposing a solution to an underlying problem. Tom does this vivid painting of what he wants, then leaves the solution to someone else to figure out. It is a brilliant way to engage another human beings expertise. It also holds for video editing: you want to convey what you want to feel to your editor, but let them decide on the cuts. If you propose a solution, you lock down the path that must be taken to achieve it, which can lead to a less creative and interesting outcome.
@@joe_gore And the proof of "how it works" is just in the glorious sound of those records. He knows how to utilize the mastery of so many musicians, such as yourself, to be who they are yet do what is part of HIS vision. And what a vision. I would like to hear more about how you see Kathleen interacting in the process. Where is she in all this, I mean physically, but also in a more metaphorical way? I just think that that collaboration needs to be studied in more detail--there truly doesn't seem to be much like it in the parts of musical history that I know of. And thanks for adding these little comments on the comments of others. I want to look for more of your a) interviews and b) SOUNDS.
I’ve worked with Sylvia several times, she has a brilliant mind for recording and sound in general. So stoked he gave her such a great shoutout. Love that book
Joe Gore is AWESOME. His UA-cam channel helped get me obsessed with effects back in the day. He also turned me on to an album he helped make, “To Bring You My Love” by PJ Harvey. A lot of overdubs on that record were done with battery powered mini Marshall practice amps and inspired me to keep mine for recording.
"To bring you my love" has had a huge influence on me. I even had the chance to see PJ Harvey (and Joe !) on this very tour: One of the best gig ever attended. About Joe's amp approach: his Line6 helix presets are worth getting and studying.. There are anything but common.
"Let's grab some tools from the wood shop, some elastic bands, ice cream buckets and a duck call and make the most touching love song ever." For Tom, it works.
This clip went straight into my "Outstanding content" list. I can't even start to explain how everything about this interview resonated deep inside of me. From talking about a targeted sound using car ride metaphors over emphasizing the power of swiftness and imperfection in the tracking process right up to analysing contemporal music in the context of medieval tonal and modal practices. I'm flabbergasted, extremely entertained and deeply inspired all at the same time. Thank you guys so much. That really was outstanding.
Two weeks ago, my wife and I were in the car after seeing a show and we passed by Sunset and Alvarado, which inspired me to play the beginning of Nighthawks at the Diner, which she really enjoyed, but with all of the spoken word stuff is a little more laid back than she likes. That led me to play Mule Variations, one of my personal favorites, with which she was familiar but never really loved, and so I threw on Bone Machine, which just blew her away…just a crazy amazing album. Thank you for this interview! Tom’s process is so simultaneously controlled and yet reliant on the inherent talent and intuition of the musicians that he brings into the session; it feels both compositionally intense and intensely immediate. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!
Tom Waits' persona is not fiction. It is amplification. Oh I knew it! 😂 This interview is amazing, I could listen to Joe (passionate and humble ) all day and I am not even a musician. Thanks from France !
In college I had friend who had been best friends with Leon Redbone's daughter and apparently 1.) neither Tom nor Leon ever drop character-they are their personas-and 2.) they are friends. She said she once slept over at the Redbone's when Tom was there for Leon's birthday party and she said it was the most fun she'd ever had. I can only imagine.
Joe Gore has such an amazing personality and unique style of playing. I always enjoyed his demos, his experiments on his channel, his sense of humor, his journalist works and of course his playing with Tom Waits. I even enjoy commenting about him and how I enjoy his work :) I'm so glad you guys invited him to your channel!
Agreeing with what someone else has said here, this is the best musical interview I've seen on youtube. It balances stories about Tom, hanging out in the studio with him, with more musical theory (medieval musical theory to boot!) than I am fully up on. But he PLAYS it for you, so you can hear it, which is really all that matters in the end. Great stuff, I will subscribe and look for more. (I don't mean to get too "competitive" about this, but I will say that to me, this beats "that other guy" who is very very popular on YT and tries to do a similar thing. )
This guitar part blew my mind the first time i heard it. The sound is just....outrageous. One of the most expressive guitar parts in the history of music. It paints a very clear and specific picture in my mind, just like the rest of the song. Ive listened to Tom Waits for a long time, but never heard an interview with someone who worked with him. It sounds exactly like I would expect it to be! Its amazing that he is so focused on the character of the sound rather than the notes. Im blown away by some of the stories in this! What an amazing dude. No one like him.
Joe is one of my shaman. All the way back in the pre-internet days reading Guitar Player mag, poring over every weird thing Joe and Jos Albrecht were slinging that month. Then he made those insane albums and I was all over it. Got a Filth Fuzz from him, and it's the best fuzztone I ever played. He even helped me personally when I was having a problem with it being unbuffered. Just the coolest guy ever and a MONSTER player. Oh, and Joe, the Subversive Guitarist is a masterpiece. Thanks so much to Jack and Ryan for doing this. I'm chuffed.
On a Friday night in the Bay Area, the local KSAN D.J. played the entire Small Change album with no breaks. back then I was listening to Miles Davis, Weather Report, John Mayall, Taj Mahal, Brazilian albums, and lots of soundtracks. I was never the same. Sometimes you have to thank yourself for saving yourself.
Really great interview! Tom played the Cellar Door club in Georgetown, Wash. DC early-mid 70's. I think between "Closing Time" and "Small Change" albums. Just him alone playing guitar and piano. He played "Martha", "Rosie", "Big Joe and Phantom 309"..... After his set, I got up and followed him backstage where he was leaning up against one of those big, deep restaurant sinks. I went up to him, quite inebriated, and was shaking his hand furiously. I was blithering on and don't remember what I said but I remember he said "...glad you liked the pictures." He wore white shirt, thin black tie, old jeans and pointed black ankle high shoes -New York style shoes. I'm 73 and became lifelong fan with that memory.
21:08 to 22:57 Perfect story. Art and technics gathered by human demand, perfectly put into words: "this is what our hearts must feel"... Thx. It made my day. Oh and the smart answer about different types of analysis (tonal base or not?) at 39:58. I am fond of this wide open and lucid way to organize knowledge.
Agreed! This kind of content is what UA-cam is for, to me at least. In general I tend to like things that are just a bit beyond my comprehension. Music geeks with passion, love it!
What a treat this was!!! I had this song cranked in my car about a week ago having not heard it in years "well my parole officer.....HE PROUD OF MEEEEEE!!!" What fantastic characters Tom Waits creates. Bone Machine is one of my absolute favorites. That record has so many 'characters' on it. Absolute genius. When Joe Gore played the line, I got instant chills. Then him reading out of the book of Sylvia (which I just ordered on Amazon!!) on Going out West blew my mind! Mr. Gore is obviously a heavy when it comes to understanding theory. I just saved his "Falling Through Time" on UA-cam to dig into later. What a fantastic video! Thank you Dead Wax. Always looking forward to your new releases.
@@joe_gore I cannot wait to read it. I also bought your Falling Through Time album and it is fantastic!! It's an honor to hear from you. Brilliant music.
This is absolutely incredible! So inspiring to me on so many levels. Bone Machine, (and Tom Waits in general) have been a gigantic influence on me since I was very young. It's amazing to hear Joe Gore talking through the process and his thoughts on playing, tone and composition. Stellar content here guys! We need a follow up! I want to know more about the parts he played on that, (and other) records! 🙏🏻
I hope you like it! Just a few minutes I finished the first rehearsal for an orchestral version scored by David Robertson for the Utah Symphony. I had to relearn and memorize a lot of stuff!
Fabulous interview with a peek through the window of the working methodology of Tom Waits. Nothing was really that surprising as I fully expected some absolutely unorthodox approach and it appears that's the way it goes down. A good magician never reveals his tricks and Tom's sleight of hand remains a wonderful enigma that keeps your ear to the speaker, still with more questions than answers.
Great interview!! I wish he spoke about Black Wings though! That guitar solo - that crazy disintegrating, exploding descent at the end of it - is incredible. I think it’s Tchad gradually bringing the room mics in and distorting the shit out of them. But I was obsessed with that sound as a young guitar player.
Thanks, Dan! Feel free to ask me any questions. But I don’t believe there were any room mics - I thing the low B string just overdrove the amp’s preamps and reverb. But then, I was not there for the mix. I remember playing with a loud amp, but a relatively light touch - except for notes like that one.
@@joe_gore Ah man, what a pleasure to get a reply from the very source! Wow, so it’s only obvious to me now that you had the same tuning for “Black Wings” as you did on “Goin’ Out West”. Of course! And listening back to it again, yep, makes total sense that with a light touch throughout the bulk of that solo, you could then get that low B to do that (wonderful) thing by hitting it much harder. I’m a 49 year-old, somehow still full-time musician/producer down here in Melbourne, Australia. I can tell you hand-on-heart that in my final year of high school I was obsessed with Bone Machine, and that particular point of that album (when your guitar went from thin and eerie to suddenly-demonic) was one of it’s most magical moments for me. It opened up my imagination in ways that literally shaped my future. So….thank you! I was fortunate enough to work on two albums with Tchad some years later. Oh and if I still have your attention, another funny story: about ten years ago I was introduced to Johnny Marr by a friend at a bar in LA. Lovely guy, but I was a little strapped for something to talk about. Then I remembered something. I told him about buying a Guitar Player magazine when I was a kid that had him on the cover. I told him how much I loved that interview with him, because he got really stuck into Yngwie Malmsteen and was generally dismissive of all the shred-lords that dominated the scene. A phenomenon I was equally bewildered by at the time. I told him how in that interview, his focus on song-based playing really influenced me as a young person. He told me he remembered that interview well! And largely because he received hate-mail for months from the “big hair army”! That interview was with you of course. So thank you again!
Joe is the most unique guitarist around and his channel is a treasure trove of tones, quirks and unbelievable playing. Not surprised he came up with that part himself. And the tone! You gotta check out his pedals.
Thanks as always, Andrea! And speaking of my pedals - I just signed with a new distributor and EVERYTHING will be back in production imminently. In fact, I'm going to audition a box of v02 prototypes as soon as I get my ass off social media today.
This is a fabulous interview , there is no way you could get Tom Waits himself to describe in words that we could comprehend on how he works or thinks, what Joe just pulled off here is a miracle. Thank you.
This was really amazing. I love Tom Waits and this song and it was just so cool to hear about what it's like to work with him. He sounds a lot like my old boss when I worked as a bartender. The same kind of "specific but kinda vibe-based" details on making things. Love it.
Joe Gore, superstar musician and journalist. I loved his playing on Bone Machine, "All Stripped Down" and DJ Shadow "Broken Levee Blues". Joe's interview with Vernon Reid in GP (Oct 88 + flexi-disc😇) opened my eyes to Vernon and was a gateway into modern jazz. Thanks Joe.
About that Vernon story: Right after Tom Wheeler at Guitar Player hired me, I said we should do a Vernon story (I learned about him from Musician magazine, the best music publication of the era.) It was Tom who suggested making it a cover story, and it was my very first. Mind you, this was before “Cult of Personaity” became a hit, so he was really taking a leap in putting a little-known guitarist on the cover. Happily, the song had become a radio hit by the time the magazine came out. The coolest part is that Vernon and I are still in touch. Aside from his playing skill, he talks about music with more passion and insight than almost anyone I know. He it truly a voice of wisdom, and he’s every bit as cool as you’d hope.
@@joe_gore thanks for taking the time to reply, I've been a LC and Vernon+his many projects fan since that edition of GP and seen them many times, so thanks to Tom W as well for the intro via that editorial decision. That article really did pique my interest and I followed up on every reference therein, from his Smash & Scatteration project with Bill Frisell to Ronald Shannon-Jackson which brought me to Last Exit and Sonny Sharrock. Agree completely, Vernon has a world view that both intrigues and informs in equal measure with his wisdom, wit and creative artistry - waiting for the day he puts pen to paper in long form. I've corresponded occasionally on Twitter with him and he is always so generous with his time and insight. Reckon Jack and Ryan need to get him on Dead Wax.... In the meantime I'll go listen to some Free Form Funky Freqs and refresh on "All Stripped Down" 😀 - thanks again Joe, Ewan.
Me too! I saw him live in ‘75 or ‘76, when he was touring “Saturday Night.” I kind of lost touch after the first three or four albums, but Swordfish and Rand Dogs immediately reeled me back in. Never in my wildest dreams …
I started doing that because a) I was too lazy to set up a vocal mic, and b) because I’d seen way too many videos with “Hit that subscribe button,” and, “Let’s see - the first control is volume. What it does is, it makes your louder or softer.” ;)
Wow what a great interview. I'm a huge fan of Tom waits and bone machine holds a special spot in my heart, but apart from the insider view of how it was recorded (which btw damn, incredible creativity and musicianship, i wish i could've been a fly on the wall for that process), it was super interesting to hear Joe Gore talk so passionately about harmony, and specifically medieval music, I'd attend lectures by him fr
Fantastic! thank you all three. Love Joe, always interesting and entertaining. And do check out Joe's Falling Through Time - utterly unique, fascinating ... beautiful.
Attended a BBQ with Tom Waits when Mule Variations dropped. He is EXACTLY as you would imagine; there is no "act" anywhere in his being. He is wise, kind, very friendly, and just seems to "know" about the world. Love him. Listen to him. Recommend him.
That idea that if the 1, 3 and 5 are defined everything else is up for grabs is basically where the regular scales and the two pentatonics intersect - the three major modes of the same key, Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian, share the same one three an five, and the three minor modes of the same key share the same 1, 3 and 5 too
I Love! that! Yeah, that’s pretty much where I went in my book, suggesting that modes as they’re conventionally regarded are bullshit. I believe modern listeners hear in major and minor, with varying degrees of chromaticism. For the 97,000 reasons I think we look at modes the wrong way, check the interminable fina chapter!
BEST interview and subject(s) mattrer(s). Fascinating, beautiful, dissonant and deeply inspiring. AND, two non-digital books to find and read and GROK.
Love this song, actually made a cover of it last year. I ended up splitting the “clean” guitar part to a guitar and bass bc I felt it fit the style I was working in a bit better
Thank you guys for this. Especially Joe for the insight. I grew up with Waits early records my dad had but Bone Machine (in high school) was when i really got hooked
@@joe_gore Looks like next time you’re in a video podcast you’ll have to share your skin care routine. Seriously though, thank you so much for sharing all these gems from this little piece of music history and thanks for sharing how you think about music.♥️
@@joe_gore “convulsively hilarious” 🤣 I love it !!!! Well we just have to hang out together for an eternity in an abandoned farm in purgatory to hear the rest of Tom’s stories. 👍🫶
I know a tiny bit of music theory, but was completely spellbound by all of this. I just imagined myself chatting it up with you three at a house party. I’d be the bloke in da cornah smiling and noddin like a freak.
Hi friends! It was such a pleasure and honor to do this interview with two such smart and passionate guys. Their tight edit also made me sound a lot smarter than I am. I’ve conducted over a thousand musician interviews myself during my years working for the magazines, and man, I wish I had Jack and Ryan on staff back then! Thanks too for everyone’s kind words! They mean even more to me than you might suppose. 💕
Oh Mr. Gore, you are pure genius!
@@bernsense Far from it, though I appreciate the sentiment! (I say that with authority, because I’m in Salt Lake City right now playing with the guitar octet Another NIght on Earth and the Utah Symphony. I’m kinda the weakest link. Jiji Kim … Daniele Gottardo … Steve Mackie … Them’s the real geniuses. :)
Thanks Joe! It was so interesting and inspirational to watch this. I would love to hear more about what you have learned studying medieval music. Also since you're into Afrobeat, check out Thandiswa Mazwai's recent set on Tiny Desk, blew my mind.
@@Harrier_DuBois Thanks - I just did! What a lovely voice. It’s not afrobeat - that style comes from Nigeria, and the Africans I played with were mostly from there and Ghana. But that South African style is a HUGE primal influence for me. One of my strongest childhood musical memories was hearing my mom’s Miriam Makeba albums. (She was a Xhosa singer from SA who achieved international popularity in the 1960s.) I’ve loved this one for well over 50 years:
ua-cam.com/video/sfQp_W9NIQ8/v-deo.html
Years later, when my attachment to classical music was fraying, I became obsessed with South African pop, especially anything that featured guitarist Marks Mankwane, still one of my absolute faves. Like this one:
ua-cam.com/video/Y7Kn6UF1-6s/v-deo.html
I spent many, many hours learning to play in this style.
Meanwhile, it’s the 30th anniversary of Malcolm McClaren’s brilliant and bizarre Duck Rock album. He went to South and worked with Zulu musicians years before Paul Simon - and ripped them off just as much! Notice any similarity between this song and the one above? (BTW, Duck Rock is also one of Tchad Blake’s favorite albums.)
ua-cam.com/video/q7bw51Aya-4/v-deo.html
Yeah, same song, with McClaren singing nonsense words that sound vaguely like the Zulu lyrics. I love this brilliant Trevor Horn production almost as much as I do the rootsy original. But McClaren stole the songwriting credit and didn’t even list the album’s non-British musicians, like whoever this amazing guitarists is. (Could it have been Mankwane?)
Anyway, Zulu and Xhosa music has been part of my sonic mindscape since my grade-school years. :)
I can only see the first part of your reply, the rest is hidden for some reason, but yeah I know it's not really Afrobeat but it is African Jazz. I like Fela Kuti and what his son is doing these days is really cool too, I've played his video of Opposite People with Newen Afrobeat so many times.
Thank you for not limiting this to a theory class. The magic of deadwax is the history and anecdotes of the brilliant artists. Thanks and keep up the great work! Much Love, B
Hee hee - I was me, not Jack or Ryan, who turned it into a theory class. Sorry about that! 😀
the must be the best musician interview I've seen on UA-cam.
This channel is such a "hidden gem" and I hate that phrase because I wish more people could know about it!
Just thought the exact same thing. What a gem.
At least you didn't use the U word @@Guysm1l3y
I was so glad when this channel came back from the dead. I missed it when it was gone.
ABSOLUTELY!
Oh my good god.
1. That tone.
2. Music knowledge that makes me feel completely useless as a player, yet also makes me want to start from the beginning and better my knowledge.
3. Stories of Tom.
4. The way of working so quickly to deliver brilliance.
5. The small detour into medieval music history!
6. I just want hear more about the other songs Joe played on Bone Machine - with examples.
Great video. More like this please.
Don’t say that about your “uselessness,” Josh! Every guitarist has something unique about their playing - the trick is to find that voice. My path happened to run through theory-heavy academia, so I went with that. But few of my favorite players can even read music, let alone drone on about music theory.
@@joe_gore thanks Joe, very kind and supportive words. Would love to see more of you talking about stories like in this vid.
This interview had me absolutely floored start to finish. From the simple revelation of the trem part being a single guitar part (and not an easy one to pull off) to bringing Messiaen and crunchy pre-tonal concepts into a conversation about a Tom Waits track? Unbelievable.
I am the pompous one, am I not? ;)
@@joe_gore Yes, and it was pitch perfect. Love what you do. Can you post a link to your record? I was surprised there isn't one, but maybe I missed it.
Well, where genius's surf...
I got to the end of the video and immediately started it again. I have never done that for any interview or podcast before. This dude is brilliant.
We all should remain "amateurs", however professional we are. The word "amateur" stems from "amare"/"aimer" - "love". So an amateur is someone who loves what they're doing. A compliment, really.
truth. if we are to aspire to any illusion of mastery, it should be that of the master-amateur. this is part of my code.
I’ve got that move down. ❤
this is such a stellar interview, maybe one of the only I've seen that actually gets into Toms working nature in the studio
I hope I don’t get into trouble.
@@joe_gore I think You might...
;-)
Seriously, thx!
My wife ran into Tom Waits decades ago at a Goodwill in LA. He was talking to the clerk in the same growling voice, and he said, “I’d like to buy a poncho”.
Was that a Sears poncho , or a real poncho ?
That is beautiful, why does this make me laugh
@@artonion420 cause it’s a reference to a Frank Zappa Song 😅
@@philipphollebauer9591 i didn’t reply to that comment but sure, I appreciate the reference as well
Absolutely unbelievably great interview. Best ever on You Tube.
Couldn’t stop smiling! Hooked in by the Tom Waits tag, but the discussion of harmony made me ecstatic! Super fun! Joe Gore speaks!
Joe wrote my favorite guitar magazine columns back in a day. He's a great unsung hero of mine. Great interview, thanks.
I think the windscreen guitar sequence is a great example of discussing emotion/feeling rather than solutions. If you go "Drop the guitar by -3db" then you are proposing a solution to an underlying problem. Tom does this vivid painting of what he wants, then leaves the solution to someone else to figure out. It is a brilliant way to engage another human beings expertise. It also holds for video editing: you want to convey what you want to feel to your editor, but let them decide on the cuts. If you propose a solution, you lock down the path that must be taken to achieve it, which can lead to a less creative and interesting outcome.
Totally agree. I wasn’t there for that particular conversation, but it’s a great example of how Tom communicates with his collaborators.
@@joe_gore And the proof of "how it works" is just in the glorious sound of those records. He knows how to utilize the mastery of so many musicians, such as yourself, to be who they are yet do what is part of HIS vision. And what a vision. I would like to hear more about how you see Kathleen interacting in the process. Where is she in all this, I mean physically, but also in a more metaphorical way? I just think that that collaboration needs to be studied in more detail--there truly doesn't seem to be much like it in the parts of musical history that I know of.
And thanks for adding these little comments on the comments of others. I want to look for more of your a) interviews and b) SOUNDS.
I’ve worked with Sylvia several times, she has a brilliant mind for recording and sound in general. So stoked he gave her such a great shoutout. Love that book
I’ve met her, and she’s awesome. Sadly, I’ve never been in the studio with her, but hope springs eternal!
Joe Gore is AWESOME. His UA-cam channel helped get me obsessed with effects back in the day.
He also turned me on to an album he helped make, “To Bring You My Love” by PJ Harvey. A lot of overdubs on that record were done with battery powered mini Marshall practice amps and inspired me to keep mine for recording.
Aw shucks. You’re too kind.
"To bring you my love" has had a huge influence on me. I even had the chance to see PJ Harvey (and Joe !) on this very tour: One of the best gig ever attended. About Joe's amp approach: his Line6 helix presets are worth getting and studying.. There are anything but common.
Really great to see someone breaking down Waits’ music. Would love to see Marc Ribot on here sometime.
Me tooooooo!
I could listen to Joe talk about harmony forever. Definitely have him on again! Great episode. What a fantastic well rounded musician
I've followed Joe's channel for the last 4 or 5 years. This is the first time I've heard him speak. Thanks for bringing him on! What a legend.
Tom Waits is a one-off musical artist. An absolute gem
"Let's grab some tools from the wood shop, some elastic bands, ice cream buckets and a duck call and make the most touching love song ever." For Tom, it works.
"Goin' Out West" is a gift that keeps on giving!
Much Love and Respect Joe! You nailed it! - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
This clip went straight into my "Outstanding content" list. I can't even start to explain how everything about this interview resonated deep inside of me. From talking about a targeted sound using car ride metaphors over emphasizing the power of swiftness and imperfection in the tracking process right up to analysing contemporal music in the context of medieval tonal and modal practices. I'm flabbergasted, extremely entertained and deeply inspired all at the same time.
Thank you guys so much. That really was outstanding.
Your kind words mean a lot to me!
Two weeks ago, my wife and I were in the car after seeing a show and we passed by Sunset and Alvarado, which inspired me to play the beginning of Nighthawks at the Diner, which she really enjoyed, but with all of the spoken word stuff is a little more laid back than she likes. That led me to play Mule Variations, one of my personal favorites, with which she was familiar but never really loved, and so I threw on Bone Machine, which just blew her away…just a crazy amazing album. Thank you for this interview! Tom’s process is so simultaneously controlled and yet reliant on the inherent talent and intuition of the musicians that he brings into the session; it feels both compositionally intense and intensely immediate. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!
Tom Waits' persona is not fiction. It is amplification.
Oh I knew it! 😂
This interview is amazing, I could listen to Joe (passionate and humble ) all day and I am not even a musician.
Thanks from France !
Merci beaucoup ! Le plaisir était pour moi, mon copain.
In college I had friend who had been best friends with Leon Redbone's daughter and apparently 1.) neither Tom nor Leon ever drop character-they are their personas-and 2.) they are friends. She said she once slept over at the Redbone's when Tom was there for Leon's birthday party and she said it was the most fun she'd ever had. I can only imagine.
@@joe_gore En français en plus! Fantastique! merci 😉
@@AlexGalt-ch3ei Wow...A perfect sleepover! He is such a genius. Would have been up all night listening to his stories...
@@lareinedemado Mon français est nul, j’ai donc besoin de chaque occasion pour m’entraîner !
Omg! I am not a musician, but I'm having some kind of weird geek out with this interview in a way I've never had before. Fantastic interviews!
Joe Gore has such an amazing personality and unique style of playing. I always enjoyed his demos, his experiments on his channel, his sense of humor, his journalist works and of course his playing with Tom Waits. I even enjoy commenting about him and how I enjoy his work :) I'm so glad you guys invited him to your channel!
Wow Joe Gore is super interesting! From West African music to Tom Waits... Love that eclectic mix! My new guitar hero haha!
That story about the guitar part "splattered on the windshield when it should be in the back seat with little Billie and Brenda." Genius.
This is brilliant content on one of America’s best songs. Thank you gents
Agreeing with what someone else has said here, this is the best musical interview I've seen on youtube. It balances stories about Tom, hanging out in the studio with him, with more musical theory (medieval musical theory to boot!) than I am fully up on. But he PLAYS it for you, so you can hear it, which is really all that matters in the end. Great stuff, I will subscribe and look for more. (I don't mean to get too "competitive" about this, but I will say that to me, this beats "that other guy" who is very very popular on YT and tries to do a similar thing. )
This guitar part blew my mind the first time i heard it. The sound is just....outrageous. One of the most expressive guitar parts in the history of music. It paints a very clear and specific picture in my mind, just like the rest of the song.
Ive listened to Tom Waits for a long time, but never heard an interview with someone who worked with him. It sounds exactly like I would expect it to be! Its amazing that he is so focused on the character of the sound rather than the notes. Im blown away by some of the stories in this! What an amazing dude. No one like him.
This is what I live for with this channel. So inspiring, so insightful, full of depth. Great stuff
Joe is one of my shaman. All the way back in the pre-internet days reading Guitar Player mag, poring over every weird thing Joe and Jos Albrecht were slinging that month. Then he made those insane albums and I was all over it. Got a Filth Fuzz from him, and it's the best fuzztone I ever played. He even helped me personally when I was having a problem with it being unbuffered. Just the coolest guy ever and a MONSTER player.
Oh, and Joe, the Subversive Guitarist is a masterpiece. Thanks so much to Jack and Ryan for doing this. I'm chuffed.
What incredibly kind things to say, Joshua! I’m deeply touched. Plus thanks for getting one of my janky pedals! ❤
As a non Muso but a keen listener I found this wildly entertaining. Thank you for the insight & access to this brilliant and fascinating player.
This was a treat,love anything waits related,all his guitarists are phenomenal,thanks pockets/deadwax
A splendid chat, thank you!
I've been playing that song at friends a lot recently.
He's a good lad 🙂
I am blown away. this is all I ever wanted to know.
When I was in college I heard “Step Right Up” on the radio and I was never the same.
On a Friday night in the Bay Area, the local KSAN D.J. played the entire Small Change album with no breaks. back then I was listening to Miles Davis, Weather Report, John Mayall, Taj Mahal, Brazilian albums, and lots of soundtracks. I was never the same. Sometimes you have to thank yourself for saving yourself.
Really great interview! Tom played the Cellar Door club in Georgetown, Wash. DC early-mid 70's. I think between "Closing Time" and "Small Change" albums. Just him alone playing guitar and piano. He played "Martha", "Rosie", "Big Joe and Phantom 309"..... After his set, I got up and followed him backstage where he was leaning up against one of those big, deep restaurant sinks. I went up to him, quite inebriated, and was shaking his hand furiously. I was blithering on and don't remember what I said but I remember he said "...glad you liked the pictures." He wore white shirt, thin black tie, old jeans and pointed black ankle high shoes -New York style shoes. I'm 73 and became lifelong fan with that memory.
What an incredible interview. Guys, so entertaining but where it all went in the end. So eye-opening, inspiring and just musical. Love it!
Thank for that!
21:08 to 22:57 Perfect story. Art and technics gathered by human demand, perfectly put into words: "this is what our hearts must feel"...
Thx. It made my day.
Oh and the smart answer about different types of analysis (tonal base or not?) at 39:58. I am fond of this wide open and lucid way to organize knowledge.
OMG, the harmony nerd out at the end was mind blowing!
So relieved that some people were interested. I knew I was going into megageek territory, but I couldn’t help myself!
Agreed! This kind of content is what UA-cam is for, to me at least. In general I tend to like things that are just a bit beyond my comprehension. Music geeks with passion, love it!
What a treat this was!!! I had this song cranked in my car about a week ago having not heard it in years "well my parole officer.....HE PROUD OF MEEEEEE!!!" What fantastic characters Tom Waits creates. Bone Machine is one of my absolute favorites. That record has so many 'characters' on it. Absolute genius. When Joe Gore played the line, I got instant chills. Then him reading out of the book of Sylvia (which I just ordered on Amazon!!) on Going out West blew my mind! Mr. Gore is obviously a heavy when it comes to understanding theory. I just saved his "Falling Through Time" on UA-cam to dig into later. What a fantastic video! Thank you Dead Wax. Always looking forward to your new releases.
You will LOVE Sylvia’s book! It’s so far and away the best thing I’ve ever read about studio music production.
@@joe_gore I cannot wait to read it. I also bought your Falling Through Time album and it is fantastic!! It's an honor to hear from you. Brilliant music.
Its refreshing to learn from people just step in and make noise. It could be polished but you go somewhere else. Very inspiring.
This was amazing. I learned more about Tom than I did reading a book about him. And holy shit that guitar part sounded amazing.
This is absolutely incredible! So inspiring to me on so many levels. Bone Machine, (and Tom Waits in general) have been a gigantic influence on me since I was very young. It's amazing to hear Joe Gore talking through the process and his thoughts on playing, tone and composition. Stellar content here guys! We need a follow up! I want to know more about the parts he played on that, (and other) records! 🙏🏻
love tom waits, this is such a wonderful conversations.
I like this channel so much. I wish the guys would post more regularly or at least let us know how often to expect a video
Finally something interesting. This dude is great. I listened to his album with the medieval stuff. Amazing.
I’m so glad you liked it!
Fascinating interview. Checking out Joe's medieval album now.
I hope you like it! Just a few minutes I finished the first rehearsal for an orchestral version scored by David Robertson for the Utah Symphony. I had to relearn and memorize a lot of stuff!
My favorite late night desert highway song somehow got better. What an amazing interview.
Okay, this is somehow the best music interview I've ever witnessed.
Really?! ❤
JOE GORE talking about TOM WAITS on DEAD WAX? My evening just got a lot better!
When Joe started playing, I couldn’t help but punch the air. This was GOLD for a Waits, Ribot and Gore fan
More Tom Waits, please! (Joe is just great)
So happy Dead Wax is back! One of my absolute favourite shows.
Incredible interview it had me spellbound from beginning to the end. Thank you!!!!
Kathleen and Tom were my Neighbors on Union Ave, LA 1981-82- great interview!
I worked with a guy in S.F. who came up from L.A. He said Tom was in his Yoga class. I kid you not, and that's probably privileged information.
Oh my GAWD! This! What an interview! How he gives Marc Ribot his due?? This is so good! Thank you!
I immediately added the album falling through time to my favorites on Spotify while I'm listening to this excellent video.
Awww! Thanks of zillion!
Fabulous interview with a peek through the window of the working methodology of Tom Waits. Nothing was really that surprising as I fully expected some absolutely unorthodox approach and it appears that's the way it goes down. A good magician never reveals his tricks and Tom's sleight of hand remains a wonderful enigma that keeps your ear to the speaker, still with more questions than answers.
This was the most musically intricate, theoretically precise, and truly mesmerizing show ever!
Riveting from start to finish. Especially the geek-out on harmony at the end.
Great interview!! I wish he spoke about Black Wings though! That guitar solo - that crazy disintegrating, exploding descent at the end of it - is incredible. I think it’s Tchad gradually bringing the room mics in and distorting the shit out of them. But I was obsessed with that sound as a young guitar player.
Thanks, Dan! Feel free to ask me any questions. But I don’t believe there were any room mics - I thing the low B string just overdrove the amp’s preamps and reverb. But then, I was not there for the mix. I remember playing with a loud amp, but a relatively light touch - except for notes like that one.
@@joe_gore Ah man, what a pleasure to get a reply from the very source! Wow, so it’s only obvious to me now that you had the same tuning for “Black Wings” as you did on “Goin’ Out West”. Of course! And listening back to it again, yep, makes total sense that with a light touch throughout the bulk of that solo, you could then get that low B to do that (wonderful) thing by hitting it much harder. I’m a 49 year-old, somehow still full-time musician/producer down here in Melbourne, Australia. I can tell you hand-on-heart that in my final year of high school I was obsessed with Bone Machine, and that particular point of that album (when your guitar went from thin and eerie to suddenly-demonic) was one of it’s most magical moments for me. It opened up my imagination in ways that literally shaped my future. So….thank you! I was fortunate enough to work on two albums with Tchad some years later.
Oh and if I still have your attention, another funny story: about ten years ago I was introduced to Johnny Marr by a friend at a bar in LA. Lovely guy, but I was a little strapped for something to talk about. Then I remembered something. I told him about buying a Guitar Player magazine when I was a kid that had him on the cover. I told him how much I loved that interview with him, because he got really stuck into Yngwie Malmsteen and was generally dismissive of all the shred-lords that dominated the scene. A phenomenon I was equally bewildered by at the time. I told him how in that interview, his focus on song-based playing really influenced me as a young person. He told me he remembered that interview well! And largely because he received hate-mail for months from the “big hair army”! That interview was with you of course. So thank you again!
Joe is the most unique guitarist around and his channel is a treasure trove of tones, quirks and unbelievable playing. Not surprised he came up with that part himself. And the tone! You gotta check out his pedals.
Thanks as always, Andrea! And speaking of my pedals - I just signed with a new distributor and EVERYTHING will be back in production imminently. In fact, I'm going to audition a box of v02 prototypes as soon as I get my ass off social media today.
This is a fabulous interview , there is no way you could get Tom Waits himself to describe in words that we could comprehend on how he works or thinks, what Joe just pulled off here is a miracle. Thank you.
Yeah, but if Tom did the interview (and he’s done a lot) it would have you breaking into tears of laughter every 15 seconds.
This was really amazing. I love Tom Waits and this song and it was just so cool to hear about what it's like to work with him. He sounds a lot like my old boss when I worked as a bartender. The same kind of "specific but kinda vibe-based" details on making things. Love it.
20:22 ❤I absolutely love that book. Sylvia is a mad genius. I’ve had that book for years. Get it.
She also has a wild collection of mics.
Yes - it’s just brilliant work.
Joe Gore, superstar musician and journalist. I loved his playing on Bone Machine, "All Stripped Down" and DJ Shadow "Broken Levee Blues". Joe's interview with Vernon Reid in GP (Oct 88 + flexi-disc😇) opened my eyes to Vernon and was a gateway into modern jazz. Thanks Joe.
About that Vernon story: Right after Tom Wheeler at Guitar Player hired me, I said we should do a Vernon story (I learned about him from Musician magazine, the best music publication of the era.) It was Tom who suggested making it a cover story, and it was my very first. Mind you, this was before “Cult of Personaity” became a hit, so he was really taking a leap in putting a little-known guitarist on the cover. Happily, the song had become a radio hit by the time the magazine came out. The coolest part is that Vernon and I are still in touch. Aside from his playing skill, he talks about music with more passion and insight than almost anyone I know. He it truly a voice of wisdom, and he’s every bit as cool as you’d hope.
@@joe_gore thanks for taking the time to reply, I've been a LC and Vernon+his many projects fan since that edition of GP and seen them many times, so thanks to Tom W as well for the intro via that editorial decision. That article really did pique my interest and I followed up on every reference therein, from his Smash & Scatteration project with Bill Frisell to Ronald Shannon-Jackson which brought me to Last Exit and Sonny Sharrock. Agree completely, Vernon has a world view that both intrigues and informs in equal measure with his wisdom, wit and creative artistry - waiting for the day he puts pen to paper in long form. I've corresponded occasionally on Twitter with him and he is always so generous with his time and insight. Reckon Jack and Ryan need to get him on Dead Wax.... In the meantime I'll go listen to some Free Form Funky Freqs and refresh on "All Stripped Down" 😀 - thanks again Joe, Ewan.
Damn, the stuff I learn from you guys in regards to harmony and feel is su huge! thank you guys!
Great stuff. I’ve been a Waits fan since 1976. Very interesting
Me too! I saw him live in ‘75 or ‘76, when he was touring “Saturday Night.” I kind of lost touch after the first three or four albums, but Swordfish and Rand Dogs immediately reeled me back in. Never in my wildest dreams …
Great, Great Interview. Waits is a fountain of art.
I just love hearing Joe actually talk, since most of his videos are just captioned.
I started doing that because a) I was too lazy to set up a vocal mic, and b) because I’d seen way too many videos with “Hit that subscribe button,” and, “Let’s see - the first control is volume. What it does is, it makes your louder or softer.” ;)
Really loved this one. Thanks, guys!
One of the best interviews yall have done. Well done!
Wow what a great interview. I'm a huge fan of Tom waits and bone machine holds a special spot in my heart, but apart from the insider view of how it was recorded (which btw damn, incredible creativity and musicianship, i wish i could've been a fly on the wall for that process), it was super interesting to hear Joe Gore talk so passionately about harmony, and specifically medieval music, I'd attend lectures by him fr
Awww, thanks!
Killer conversation, I always thought that was Ribot! Fascinating talk thx y’all!
Fantastic! thank you all three. Love Joe, always interesting and entertaining. And do check out Joe's Falling Through Time - utterly unique, fascinating ... beautiful.
Attended a BBQ with Tom Waits when Mule Variations dropped. He is EXACTLY as you would imagine; there is no "act" anywhere in his being. He is wise, kind, very friendly, and just seems to "know" about the world. Love him. Listen to him. Recommend him.
That idea that if the 1, 3 and 5 are defined everything else is up for grabs is basically where the regular scales and the two pentatonics intersect - the three major modes of the same key, Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian, share the same one three an five, and the three minor modes of the same key share the same 1, 3 and 5 too
I Love! that! Yeah, that’s pretty much where I went in my book, suggesting that modes as they’re conventionally regarded are bullshit. I believe modern listeners hear in major and minor, with varying degrees of chromaticism. For the 97,000 reasons I think we look at modes the wrong way, check the interminable fina chapter!
This is such a great interview. I was glued.
Nail polish remover will set you free! (But seriously - thanks!)
Tom Waits is amazing and Rain Dogs is my favorite album. I put the cassette in my car stereo and left it there playing over and over for 3 months.
Fantastic interview, the perfect blend of artistry and intellect, thank you joe
Are you kidding? It was an honor and a pleasure to participate. :)
Ive loved Toms music for over 40 years. Im so glad YT suggested this video, one of the best interviews Ive seen. /sub .
I'm glad you found it worthwhile. Jack and Ryan's edit makes me a lot more interesting than I am in real life.
Joe Gore is my harmonic twin! sharp 4th and the chord(s) attached are just the definition of beauty
BEST interview and subject(s) mattrer(s). Fascinating, beautiful, dissonant and deeply inspiring. AND, two non-digital books to find and read and GROK.
What a wonderful interview! Thank you guys!
Only caught 1/3 way in, but love this, thank you 💙 I'll def be back!!
this got soooo over my head fast. thank you. in a world of dumbed down content it is nice to see CONTENT/ ima go learn some scales
You guys are the best. Thank you for turning me on to Joe Gore.
Now, don’t be a stranger!
Awesome job everyone, I was hanging on every word!
Now this is the kind of content I want to see on my internet. Thank you so much Joe, Jack and Ryan for the ride! New subscriber aboard!
Welcome aboard!
Love this song, actually made a cover of it last year. I ended up splitting the “clean” guitar part to a guitar and bass bc I felt it fit the style I was working in a bit better
I love the passion for music - the Music should I say - this Joe is living for. Love the guy. Thanks Ryan and Jack 🙏
I love you right back! Thanks. And if I may quote you: Thanks Ryan and Jack!
This is the interview I have been waiting 20 years for!
Thank you guys for this. Especially Joe for the insight. I grew up with Waits early records my dad had but Bone Machine (in high school) was when i really got hooked
Wait, so you’re telling me this guy is 64 years old? I’m half his age and he still looks younger and more hip than I ever did.
I’m 65 now. I wore some makeup (for reals).
@@joe_gore Looks like next time you’re in a video podcast you’ll have to share your skin care routine. Seriously though, thank you so much for sharing all these gems from this little piece of music history and thanks for sharing how you think about music.♥️
This was such a great interview. Incredible!
What an awesomely generous interviewee
Well, I do love the sound of my own voice a little too much for my own good. ;)
Hearing these Tom Waits stories made my year !!!! “DEATH BANJO” 🤠🤠👍👍👍😂😂💯💯
I wished I remembered more of his jokes and comments. He really is convulsively hilarious.
@@joe_gore “convulsively hilarious” 🤣 I love it !!!! Well we just have to hang out together for an eternity in an abandoned farm in purgatory to hear the rest of Tom’s stories. 👍🫶
Thanks for this, guys and poster. Really interesting stuff here. Loved it.
I know a tiny bit of music theory, but was completely spellbound by all of this. I just imagined myself chatting it up with you three at a house party. I’d be the bloke in da cornah smiling and noddin like a freak.