I've had my '18 Smuggler for about a week. Significant upgrade coming from a '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29er (100mm front/rear travel XC bike), but my early impression of the Smuggler is how well it performs on tight, uphill switchbacks. It's no surprise that the Smuggler is better than the Superlight when descending, but the most notable difference to me is how manageable the Transition is on tight, techy uphills.
Yes I have and yes I did, and it makes calmer more stable handling bike but not necessarily better,depends your riding style.( Sam Hill runs 46 offset btw)
as you change the steering head tube angle the "trail" measurement of the bike geometry is changing causing the steering "character" to change... if you follow any motorcycle racing... the best teams will have a "trail" measurement that they always try to maintain as they make changes to the head angle of the machine and it is done by making fork offset changes...
I recently purchased a Yetti Sb150 with offset fork and I believe it is faster,, not because of the fork,, because my wallet is much lighter after the purchase.
For 95% of riders: Ride your dang bike. 😎 For the people like me that are OCD: Really awesome overview! But I was hoping you were going to take the same frame and swap out the fork to try different offsets to see how they changed the feeling.
I'm pretty sure we allready know the answer to this question. Like he says in the video, "forget watching videos, just ride a bike till you feel comfortable"
@@nathan42694 exactly.... My sb130 demos were with 44 my sb 130 frame build has my pike 51 offset... Honestly, I couldn't really tell.. The thing still just shreds with the 51 pike! 👍
@@flow2tech myself though, I need a 37 offset. I took off the 150 stock Sektor fork 2 years ago on my current 2017 Devinci Troy 27.5", put on a 2018 160 Lyrik rct3 at 46-mm offset. So the lower offset would help my frame with the evolution of mtbs. The 2019 Devinci Troy GX LTD 27.5" comes with a 160 Lyrik rct3, 37- mm offset to counter the frames geometry. The non- LTD models for 27.5 for 2019 come with a 150 travel fork, 46 mm offset
When wheel sizes went to 29 inches, this increased the trail substantially. It is one of the reasons that early 29ers were like driving mack trucks. Increasing fork offset reduced the trail to about the same as it was for 26 in wheeled bikes and thus made 29ers handle better at slow and medium speeds. Trail size is one of the key components to how a bike will handle- especially at slower speeds where it is basically all muscle power that is turning the bike- longer trails means the bike will track straight better and be harder to turn, shorter trail means it will be twitchier and easier to turn. Bc 27.5 wheels don’t increase the trail from the trail of a 26 as much as a 29er, you don’t need as much fork offset to keep the same trail, and thus roughly the same handling characteristics, of a 26. But as headtube angle decreases, that will also increase the trail. So if you want the bike to have the same nimbleness as before you decreased the headtube angle, then you should increase offset slightly. But of course one reason to decrease headtube angle and lengthening the reach is to create a more stable bike, and since a longer trail holds a straight line better (but more sluggish to turn) you may not want to increase the offset- you may want that increased trail to make the bike a better bomber. Ever wonder why some bikes are harder than others to ride without hands- that’s the effect of more or less trail. Two other important things that affect handling are stem length and handlebar width. So optimizing steering for what you want involves the interplay of these three things. Hope this helps someone. My head hurts now! 😀🚵🏼♂️
Thanks for watching and for your feedback, our heads hurt too thinking about this stuff. At the end of these discussions best thing to do is just shut up and ride!
Worldwide Cyclery LOL. I know right!! Luckily I was able to do that this am. In 27 degree weather! Hey at least it wasn’t muddy- trail was frozen. And I was too cold to think about fork offsets. Vids like this are great bc although it is down in the weeds these are the things that really change a bike’s characteristics and that a lot if ppl don’t understand. I turned my 2014 XC machine into a trail bike and had to figure this stuff out on my own- wish I’d had a vid like yours to help me out. Keep it up. I gotta visit you guys in Lancaster next time I’m up that way. I’m in DC area, originally from Philly.
That was very helpful thanks. I'm considering upgrading my 2019 29er comp alloy stumpy from fox rhythm 34 150mm to fox factory 36 160mm and in doing so change to 44mm instead of 51mm offset. This is actually the same setup spesh went with the stumpjumper Evo. 160mm travel fox 36 grip2 with 44mm offset. I do a lot of steep tech corner climbing. A good take away from what you said is just experiment and see what works for your riding style, location and preference. For me... That's a bike which is nice and slack but also decent climbing. Cheers
Rob Bradshaw awesome! You’re gonna love that Fox Factory compared to the Rhythm. i’ve ridden both and am not a huge fan of the Rhythm but the Factory is the bomb. I like the 44 offset too. I think for longer travel bomber 29ers it hits a nice sweet spot. But you hit the nail on the head - just mess around til you get what you like. And don’t forget stem length, that will make a huge difference too. Glad my Comment helped. Bombs away brother.
@@dadventuretv2538 thx alot,really clarified alot of things for me as I'm a beginner and looking to upgrade my fork.I ride a Trek Slash 8 running a 44 Offset Rockshox Yari fork stock,and am looking at a Fox 36as an upgrade,offset 51 as I can't find one with a lower offset,is this a correct choice and will it mean differences is riding?Any feedback is greatly appreciated😁😁
Jeff, these videos you guys are doing about "What something is" or "This is how this works" or "Comparing these two things" are excellent. I found your youtube channel and your company from BKXC's channel and really appreciate you educating the average mountain bike consumer. I think it speaks volumes about your company and how valuable it is to the mountain bike community. Thanks
Thank you so much for the awesome feedback! We do our best to put out what we feel is valuable information and when we here feedback like this everyone involved appreciates it very much.
I believe its actually important to differentiate when and where the SBG philosophy is used in that Transition is only employing it on their long(er) travel bikes. On their Vanquish HT they still spec it with a 51mm offset fork. Now this could that they haven't updated the geometry to the SBG, but I do believe there is a point where the shorter offset has an adverse effect on the handling. When I first got my Ibis Ripley LS I reused my RS Revelation RCT3 130mm with a 46 deg offset because its a fantastic performing fork, and one side effect of increasing offset is a slight increase of head tube angle. Fast forward, I wanted to put the fork on my (then at the time) Kona Honzo ST SS, I bought a new DVO Diamond for my Ibis, and I actually saw a considerable (positive) difference from the 46 to the 51. The tracking and carving was quite a bit better in my opinion. I recently sold the Kona (being a psudo-SC fanboy) and got a Chameleon at a great price (and I love the sage green/purple) to replace it. I just couldn't get along with all these super steep seat tubes that everyone's coming out with. I believe though that if you don't have the other geometry numbers along with TTL and Reach, you should go with what the manufacture suggests. If they say 51, run a 51. I don't believe you're doing yourself any favors going to a 43/44mm offset because that is the way of the trend. You're going to dramatically change the way your bike steers, and probably "overweight", disturb the trail numbers, and the front end and have the axle in the wrong place making it harder to corner at speed.
I am just an average mountain bike rider, two weeks ago I rode my Transition Smuggler in an intermediate technical Trail . WAO, I felt so much confidence, even when I chose the wrong line I survived those descends. If you think the Transition Staff are ony beer drinkers you are totally wrong. These bikes gives you more confidence and more control during the whole trail. This Speed Balance Geometry (SBG) from Transition is a real MTB improvement !!!!
Riding a non-SBG concept bike and then a Transition Scout back to back, it's totally noticeable. The thing I noticed most was the ability to soften my grip and relax my arms over chunky, rutted out sections and not feel like the trail wanted to grab and direct the front wheel nearly as much. Pretty much at any speed. The bike handles and tracks so intuitively. Taking turns at speed over non-ideal terrain was very confidence inspiring. Found myself pushing faster and faster until I carried too much speed and tired brakes on a demo bike had me off the trail.
I'm 65 years old, anything that will help me ride better, research and development in bikes have come a long way. I agree, you really should test ride several different bikes until you find the right bike that feels RIGHT for you.
I think Whyte bikes from the UK started the short offset revolution. They came to market with the S-150 and the rest of the market went scrambling. I can tell the difference on tight switchbacks. Short offset works well with long top tube bikes, keeps that weight under the wheel on tight turns. 👍
Nice video guys and the blog was super helpful as well. Currently running a Transition Smuggler with SBG and a 44mm offset fork and love the way she rides.
The original offset of my Stumpy (2018) is 46mm. I have been watching a fair few WorldWide Cyclery videos. And I decided to upgrade my rear shock and forks from the RockShox Monarch RT and RockShox Reba RL. To the Fox DPX2 and Fox 36 Fit4. I cannot thank you enough for the videos. It has given me more knowledge and idea on what I need.
Great explanation. All I took away was the prices keep rising and consumers are stupid enough to keep buying. They need to come up with new trends to justify price hikes. I will not spend what the industry considers mid tier let alone high tier. My old 26" $3.5k demo bike is still going strong. Paid $1100 on eBay and at the time that was more than I ever wanted to spend.
Haha for the average 3 day a week rider like myself it’s too much to care about. Just the fact that I’m on a full susp Giant trance bike as oppose to my 1997 rock hopper is a total improvement! Haha
Jeff, loved the video on boutique brands. Now, Santa Cruz Bikes. I have a friend who works there and here is why I think they are better than any bike brand over any "boutique" brand. Lifetime warranty on frames and wheels and competitively priced. You can get a frame for $2700-$2800 if you deal with the right shop or online company, online would have to be Competitive Cyclist would give that deal. Pawn Holdings, who bought SC, has put more money into their investment, which allows SC to now "O W N" their carbon manufacturing facility in Asia! THE FACILITY DOES NOT MAKE ANY OTHER BRAND! Some of those in Asia, as you and I now, make several bike brands and quality cannot really be nailed down as wanted. Further, Santa Cruz owns their own testing carbon facility in Santa Cruz where they develop mules for new bikes, shapes of frames, and there they make the Reserve carbon wheels and the Santa Cruz bars, all in the USA. With the exception of ENVE, all other carbon wheels are made in ASIA, that I can think of, I may be wrong. So what being bought out for Santa Cruz has allowed them to put more money into quality control and innovation giving them an edge over Yeti, Pivot, Evil, Ibis, Transition, etc... They can offer a lifetime warranty, but not only this they have told employees they want a 48 hour turnaround if any warranties need to be addressed. Most other brands will take weeks to get them addressed. I've had friends who have had cracked Yeti's and its been hell getting them to take of their customer. I have a friend who left Yeti for this reason. HE paid $3100 for his frame and it cracked and they took about 6 weeks to get it all worked out. So Santa Cruz may not fall into "boutique" because they have the scratch now backing them up, but all the guys who were there before it was bought out are still there. Even Rob Roskopp, the original owner who sold it, is still there running it. Santa Cruz is in their own category that not even Giant, Specy, or Trek can touch.
It is counterintuitive, but decreasing the fork offset adds trail, slacker head angle adds even more trail, there's just a ton of trail in these new offerings., its all about downhill performance, uphills will not be as pleasant as they were on such bikes..
Thanks for video and article. I've had some personal experience with reduced offset and steep head angle. I had a 2015 Giant Trance Advanced, which originally had a 140 fork on it, 67 head angle, 27.5 wheels. I put a Marzocchi 350CR (40mm offset, I think) on it at 160mm and it felt great (roughtly 66 HA with the extra 20mm of travel). I tried it at 150mm and it immediately felt nervous, like I was fighting to steer properly. I switched right back to 160. This tells me that there is a break point (as your article on the site mentions) wherein the reduced offset will not play well with a steeper head angle. It's a fine line, I was fine at 66 and frightened at 66.5 (roughly). My takeaway was that there are tipping points with bike fit/geometry that can dramatically change things. Glad to hear that most people are fine running 51 offset 29er forks on slacker bikes.
I'd like to see a blind test with the same geo spec bike and same wheelbase. However, with the exception that one has steeper head tube angle and one with smaller offset fork to see how much of a difference there is and if anyone can distinguish a difference. Can probably do the test with an angleset headset. It would be interesting.
Wow this was a really good explanation!! To be honest I didn’t even really notice offset forks but it makes sense for a longer wheelbase. BTW that smuggler is beastly looking!
At the end i believe the truth benefit of different offset is, to create a bike size right in between two sizes. So for the shorter or smaller frame, you choose more offset and a longer stem. But you stay smaller than the bigger sized bike. You do this for not needing an ultra short 30mm stem. Because you will have less weight on the front tire, even with a short offset with the 30mm stem.
Just as a random point, the SBG from Transition was a collaboration between Transition and former UK Fox Importer, Chris Porter (currently at Geometron bikes). It was actually Chris that messed about with fork offset (bonus of having a lot of Fox forks to play with) and Transition heard about this and asked Chris if he would work with Transition.
Strangely, Chris Porter also worked with Mondraker( I have looked but seen no mention of them in this) 2013/14, I think. FORWARD GEOMETRY Longer top tubes own brand 30mm stems... Fabulous handling bikes
I prefer a big bike, lots of room, coming from riding dirt bikes it just seems right. I just purchased some 780mm bars and 60mm stem that made a huge difference. I'm 6'1, ride a Large frame and wished I had a XL. My next bike will definitely be bigger, my riding style I would say is AM/FR. I'm not focused on the climb but you need to climb to get your reward right? I think it's cool that the mountain bike has evolved into so many different ways. Building a bike to fit your style is the only way to go.
Instead of getting a bigger bike, you should just make yourself smaller by cutting your feet off at the ankles. Then you’ll fit your bike perfectly! 😁. You could even try grafting your pedal axles onto the bones of your lower legs; you would be the first mountain bike cyborg! Don’t mind me. Just a bit punchy from lack of sleep. 😉
David Condon no I havent. Im sure theyre perfectly strong and well designed. They just look scarily thin. Mondraker wouldnt be making them still if they were destined to break.
G'day mate , absolutely love your vids, finally someone who explains everything simply . I just bought a 2021 scott aspect and wanted to upgrade the forks .couldn't decide between fox 34 or rockshox gold . After seeing your vid the rockshox could be the go , thanks mate . "Cyclepath"
I’m so interest in offset now. I’m on an XC bike in summer an ebike in winter. The ebike was 275plus and came with a 51mm offset fork. I’ve gone to 29er wheels and that raised the BB (no biggy to me), but the bike is super long now. Wondering about running a shorted offset, just to make it feel more controlled on the steep climbs. What ever happened to TALAS forks from Fox?
I'll have to demo another Transition when down in the 'Ham. I tried to explain to the one of the staff how it felt to me, but he looked at me like a deer in the headlights. Felt like steering bus. No prior positive experience with a 29er before. Will give it another chance in the spring though. Positive atmosphere at their shop though.
I think it’s safe to say that 90% will never notice the difference but they are the ones who can be convinced that they need a new bike with the latest slacker geometry and reduced offset fork - which compensates for the negative effects of the slacker HA :)
cool Blue mic. Good, informative video on a hot topic. I've yet to try a shorter offset but they are a big blip on the radar. I wonder if guitar-shredder Jeffrey still resides within, keeps a rig in the shop, and will ever feature the sound or make a Jeff Sounds vid featuring that kazoo and such...
Reminds me of the auto industry. We have gone through a lot of transition. From gas powered to electric now hybrid. Then styling has been through a lot. Most popular design now is the SUV. Like the bike industry. Can’t blame them.
Stability and maneuverability without the flop, that's the goal. There's so many things going on within every bike design that things like HA, offset, and trail are just a piece of the puzzle. But yes, I believe everyone would notice the difference if you had a chance to ride the same bike with 51, 44 and 38mm offset forks.
Solid video. WOuld have been good to have a control using a single bike and different forks. I think fad is a bit crazy since the slack HTA AND reduced offset both slow steering down. I do love my slack bikes (my Evil Calling sitting at 64.5 HTA for example); however, I think it more about the steering feel you like as a rider and more about the PROPORTION of the offset to the length of stem. I think you should fit a stem that gives you the reach you like in the geo you want to ride in THEN choose the fork offset that is about equal(+/- up to 10mm) for trail to more aggressive riding. Just my .02 since I feel, even with reduced offset, that any stem less than 45mm feels too twitchy (yes I have tested a sentinel with a 40mm stem)
Thanks for your view and idea here, I mean, I haven't heard of relating the offset with the stem length. But I'll definitely keep an eye out for this kind of info ahead!
I was wondering the same thing,the Slash 8 runs on a 44mm offset(correct me if im wrong) Rockshox Yari Fork,and im looking at the Fox 36 Grip 2 as an upgrade,but the Fox has a 51mm offset.I wonder if it will fit and whether or not it make a difference?
One consideration here is the type of trail that you ride on most frequently. I ride on are the tight, technical trails in the southeast, most often, And I rarely get up to the speeds you see on those wide open trails that you see over on the west coast. The higher the speed downhill, the more noticeable things like fork offset and slacker angles become. That's my presumption.
I have to say that was interesting , I ride yeti just saying, but I noticed at least to me that in your video the transition looked a little sluggish turning and took a little more body English to turn !?
shane costa , slacker HT angle lengthens the wheelbase and the reduced offset shortens the wheelbase; ie a tradeoff affecting trail, wheelbase, and ultimately handling.
I was thinking of replacing my 44mm offset fork on Rocky Slayer for a 37mm fork and running the bike in a slacker geo setting. Would thismake the bike handle slow turns better and keep the downhill performance? This topic is quite confusing for me
Best thing about the mtb industry - bikes are changing and evolving and always getting more awesome Worst thing about mtbs - things keep changing, standards dammit, too much tech arrggh!!!!
Great video once again 🤙. My question has nothing to do with offset forks and such. As far as the new boost drop outs go , like the 110 mm forks and frames ( not sure what the rear boost drop outs are). Is the boost thing similar to the offset thing where as it’s a small improvement and not hugely noticeable? Or is it really noticeable (in your opinion )? I’m one of those riders that kinda notices stuff on new bike but am not hugely aware of them.
Thanks for watching! The thing about Boost spacing is that it's already here and there is not much we can do about it. I could go on all day about why it was developed and why it took over has a standard but the truth is it improved some things and the entire industry switched to it so now that is what almost every bike is going to have and what hub and fork manufacturers are going to support. Fork Offset is definitely going to be a more noticeable feature change than boost spacing was when it came out but again will likely turn into something that slowly becomes the norm and than it will be hard to remember if it was a big advancement from the previous "standards".
@@WorldwideCyclery my frame is a 2018 but it has 135m QR dropouts. i fkn hate 135 QR. but i dont have 800 bux for a nukeproof scout frame and a new boost rear hub.
The grocers store had a delivery bike with slack geometry back in about 1970. Don't know the exact offset, but pretty sure they minimised it for weaving in and out of traffic :-)
So a shorter offset increases the trail measurement which also occurs with a slacker head angle and bigger wheels, wouldn't this mean that a shorter offset would decrease agility with low speed turning and tight switchbacks rather than making it feel more agile like what everyone says.
Yes, According to every article/video about trail I can remember. I demoed a pivot trail 429 that has the longer offset vs some 29ers with shorter offset and it definitely had quicker steering at low speed. BUT i did read an article on pinkpike or maybe enduro mag that interviewed a few designers from some different bike brands and they said the relationship between HTA, Wheel Base, and Offset can all effect each other in different ways depending on the ratios, and its not always simple. So they should just make offset adjustable with a flipchip on forks so we can try both.
Incredible topic! I was actually waiting on you, Jeff, to make a video about it! Also, the scene from Will Ferrell from Blades of Glory is fuckin hilarious!! LMAO 😂 😂, anyway, I'm far from hypersensitive, and all bikes feel the same to me, except for a bigger wheel and how it rolls easier over stuff, and a full carbon frame stiffness vs aluminum. And that's about it for me. I still ride my 26 bike, with a 160 front with 37mm offset and 130 mm rear and I'm rocking it on it!
Have a transition Sentinel. Yes the shorter offset makes a significant difference to how playful the bike is for 29 and bonus the front end grip is improved.
So I went from a 150mm- 51mm offset Fox 36, to a 160mm - 44mm offset Fox 36 . Did I do this right by going to a 160mm travel it should slacken the the head tube angle a bit by raising the front end of the bike 10mm. (Increasing trail) So should the 44mm offset negate the slightly slacker head tube angle by reducing the trail ? My goal was to get a similar ride but increase my travel.
Help needed please, if you reduce the offset of the fork therefore bringing the wheel closer in, does that make make the bike shorter wheelbase, steeper head angle? Thanks.
My Stumpjumper 2016 29er which I bought in June 2015 came with a 46 offset 140mm fork, I have now changed it to 51’ 150mm Yari fork which makes it slacker & longer which I prefer 🤔😘
Exactly.. Got in to this over on mtbr forums.. Guys were calling me out cuz Im using my 2016 pike 51 offset on my sb130 frame build.. Like was going to completely screw up the handling and geo! 😂 Its 7mm! It is nothing I notice!
Yeah it's ridiculous, I personally don't have the time or money to test all these different geometry bikes, just build something you know will suit your style.
Hi, do you have any idea why Evil didn't adapt the shorter offset in the Offering model ? they are pretty much copied the SBG geometry 1:1 from the smuggler (in x-low configuration) ?
Seems to just be 44mm only run a 27.5 according to my for 38 forks with fit 4 and my mates black grip 2 has 27.5/29 sticker on his for both wheel sizes its got me confused as looks no difference side by side so not sure if my for can take a 29in wheel or not?
My 2023 rosco 7 frame is specific for a 44mm offset fork from 140mm to 150mm travel if I insert a 42mm offset RockShox lyrik select? Will i ruin the geometry since I would be 2mm less then the bike frames specified 44mm offset?
How about if i just want to speed up the steering at high speed? I've fallen in love with the Mojo HD4 but it seemed slow to come out of a turn... as in, i was telling it to go straight again and it was still trying to carve for a second longer. What would help that out?
I would also like it if they could make the axle point further up the lower leg i.e. Make the lower leg longer. Sorta like the motocross bikes have, with a bunch of fork extending down past the axle. It looks cool.
But, it seems counter productive for a mountainbike that wants to be as light as possible and has a much larger wheel that would already have the length and modulation enough for good function, right?
It was Chris Porter from Mojo Suspension playing with different offsets (and that resulted with few long articles (PB, BikeRadar etc.)). Later Whyte started reducing offset on their bikes and Transition followed (they read these articles and played with different offsets - they've said that in one interview).
Do you run an offset fork? Have you tested two different offset forks back to back? Do you think offset forks are better? Let us know!
I've had my '18 Smuggler for about a week. Significant upgrade coming from a '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29er (100mm front/rear travel XC bike), but my early impression of the Smuggler is how well it performs on tight, uphill switchbacks. It's no surprise that the Smuggler is better than the Superlight when descending, but the most notable difference to me is how manageable the Transition is on tight, techy uphills.
Yes I have and yes I did, and it makes calmer more stable handling bike but not necessarily better,depends your riding style.( Sam Hill runs 46 offset btw)
How dare you ask me about my fork offset! FORK you :P
Forks are more useful than spoons, unless your fishing 👍
as you change the steering head tube angle the "trail" measurement of the bike geometry is changing causing the steering "character" to change... if you follow any motorcycle racing... the best teams will have a "trail" measurement that they always try to maintain as they make changes to the head angle of the machine and it is done by making fork offset changes...
I recently purchased a Yetti Sb150 with offset fork and I believe it is faster,, not because of the fork,, because my wallet is much lighter after the purchase.
LOL
Haha
Leave your wallet at home... you will be even faster! :D
I'm still on my 2015 Kona Fire mountain with single speed set up hehe.
26×2.3 tires but can support 27.5
Cruiser bike is awesome.
HAHAHA win
I thought offset was on the Migos. This video definitely helped me clear some stuff up
LOL
This is to corny to not like lol
This is glorious LOL
Wtf is migos?
MidwinterEclipse Migos is a popular rap group comprised of three members...Takeoff, Offset, and Quavo...
For 95% of riders: Ride your dang bike. 😎
For the people like me that are OCD: Really awesome overview! But I was hoping you were going to take the same frame and swap out the fork to try different offsets to see how they changed the feeling.
I'm pretty sure we allready know the answer to this question. Like he says in the video, "forget watching videos, just ride a bike till you feel comfortable"
@@nathan42694 exactly.... My sb130 demos were with 44 my sb 130 frame build has my pike 51 offset... Honestly, I couldn't really tell.. The thing still just shreds with the 51 pike! 👍
@@flow2tech myself though, I need a 37 offset. I took off the 150 stock Sektor fork 2 years ago on my current 2017 Devinci Troy 27.5", put on a 2018 160 Lyrik rct3 at 46-mm offset.
So the lower offset would help my frame with the evolution of mtbs. The 2019 Devinci Troy GX LTD 27.5" comes with a 160 Lyrik rct3, 37- mm offset to counter the frames geometry. The non- LTD models for 27.5 for 2019 come with a 150 travel fork, 46 mm offset
If you head over to the blog on this video, you will have your answer!
I like how honest Jeff is. Gives me a lot more confidence in his opinions and suggestions.
When wheel sizes went to 29 inches, this increased the trail substantially. It is one of the reasons that early 29ers were like driving mack trucks. Increasing fork offset reduced the trail to about the same as it was for 26 in wheeled bikes and thus made 29ers handle better at slow and medium speeds. Trail size is one of the key components to how a bike will handle- especially at slower speeds where it is basically all muscle power that is turning the bike- longer trails means the bike will track straight better and be harder to turn, shorter trail means it will be twitchier and easier to turn. Bc 27.5 wheels don’t increase the trail from the trail of a 26 as much as a 29er, you don’t need as much fork offset to keep the same trail, and thus roughly the same handling characteristics, of a 26. But as headtube angle decreases, that will also increase the trail. So if you want the bike to have the same nimbleness as before you decreased the headtube angle, then you should increase offset slightly. But of course one reason to decrease headtube angle and lengthening the reach is to create a more stable bike, and since a longer trail holds a straight line better (but more sluggish to turn) you may not want to increase the offset- you may want that increased trail to make the bike a better bomber. Ever wonder why some bikes are harder than others to ride without hands- that’s the effect of more or less trail. Two other important things that affect handling are stem length and handlebar width. So optimizing steering for what you want involves the interplay of these three things. Hope this helps someone. My head hurts now! 😀🚵🏼♂️
Thanks for watching and for your feedback, our heads hurt too thinking about this stuff. At the end of these discussions best thing to do is just shut up and ride!
Worldwide Cyclery LOL. I know right!! Luckily I was able to do that this am. In 27 degree weather! Hey at least it wasn’t muddy- trail was frozen. And I was too cold to think about fork offsets. Vids like this are great bc although it is down in the weeds these are the things that really change a bike’s characteristics and that a lot if ppl don’t understand. I turned my 2014 XC machine into a trail bike and had to figure this stuff out on my own- wish I’d had a vid like yours to help me out. Keep it up. I gotta visit you guys in Lancaster next time I’m up that way. I’m in DC area, originally from Philly.
That was very helpful thanks. I'm considering upgrading my 2019 29er comp alloy stumpy from fox rhythm 34 150mm to fox factory 36 160mm and in doing so change to 44mm instead of 51mm offset. This is actually the same setup spesh went with the stumpjumper Evo. 160mm travel fox 36 grip2 with 44mm offset.
I do a lot of steep tech corner climbing. A good take away from what you said is just experiment and see what works for your riding style, location and preference. For me... That's a bike which is nice and slack but also decent climbing. Cheers
Rob Bradshaw awesome! You’re gonna love that Fox Factory compared to the Rhythm. i’ve ridden both and am not a huge fan of the Rhythm but the Factory is the bomb. I like the 44 offset too. I think for longer travel bomber 29ers it hits a nice sweet spot. But you hit the nail on the head - just mess around til you get what you like. And don’t forget stem length, that will make a huge difference too. Glad my
Comment helped. Bombs away brother.
@@dadventuretv2538 thx alot,really clarified alot of things for me as I'm a beginner and looking to upgrade my fork.I ride a Trek Slash 8 running a 44 Offset Rockshox Yari fork stock,and am looking at a Fox 36as an upgrade,offset 51 as I can't find one with a lower offset,is this a correct choice and will it mean differences is riding?Any feedback is greatly appreciated😁😁
Jeff, these videos you guys are doing about "What something is" or "This is how this works" or "Comparing these two things" are excellent. I found your youtube channel and your company from BKXC's channel and really appreciate you educating the average mountain bike consumer. I think it speaks volumes about your company and how valuable it is to the mountain bike community. Thanks
Thank you so much for the awesome feedback! We do our best to put out what we feel is valuable information and when we here feedback like this everyone involved appreciates it very much.
50 or so videos and I have yet to see a cut scene I didn't recognize and like. Whoever is producing these videos shares my sense of humor!
I like the non biased and informative way you describe all these different aspect of mountain bikes.
Thank you for the videos.
Sorry I missed somethings you said because I was thinking how that Yeti would look like with the Orange Fox fork 🤔
Would be bright for sure!
Funny comment 😂
@@redball4093 Also over 3 years old.
I believe its actually important to differentiate when and where the SBG philosophy is used in that Transition is only employing it on their long(er) travel bikes. On their Vanquish HT they still spec it with a 51mm offset fork. Now this could that they haven't updated the geometry to the SBG, but I do believe there is a point where the shorter offset has an adverse effect on the handling.
When I first got my Ibis Ripley LS I reused my RS Revelation RCT3 130mm with a 46 deg offset because its a fantastic performing fork, and one side effect of increasing offset is a slight increase of head tube angle. Fast forward, I wanted to put the fork on my (then at the time) Kona Honzo ST SS, I bought a new DVO Diamond for my Ibis, and I actually saw a considerable (positive) difference from the 46 to the 51. The tracking and carving was quite a bit better in my opinion. I recently sold the Kona (being a psudo-SC fanboy) and got a Chameleon at a great price (and I love the sage green/purple) to replace it. I just couldn't get along with all these super steep seat tubes that everyone's coming out with.
I believe though that if you don't have the other geometry numbers along with TTL and Reach, you should go with what the manufacture suggests. If they say 51, run a 51. I don't believe you're doing yourself any favors going to a 43/44mm offset because that is the way of the trend. You're going to dramatically change the way your bike steers, and probably "overweight", disturb the trail numbers, and the front end and have the axle in the wrong place making it harder to corner at speed.
I am just an average mountain bike rider, two weeks ago I rode my Transition Smuggler in an intermediate technical Trail . WAO, I felt so much confidence, even when I chose the wrong line I survived those descends. If you think the Transition Staff are ony beer drinkers you are totally wrong. These bikes gives you more confidence and more control during the whole trail. This Speed Balance Geometry (SBG) from Transition is a real MTB improvement !!!!
That bike really does shred! Great all around machine.
Riding a non-SBG concept bike and then a Transition Scout back to back, it's totally noticeable.
The thing I noticed most was the ability to soften my grip and relax my arms over chunky, rutted out sections and not feel like the trail wanted to grab and direct the front wheel nearly as much. Pretty much at any speed. The bike handles and tracks so intuitively.
Taking turns at speed over non-ideal terrain was very confidence inspiring. Found myself pushing faster and faster until I carried too much speed and tired brakes on a demo bike had me off the trail.
I'm 65 years old, anything that will help me ride better, research and development in bikes have come a long way. I agree, you really should test ride several different bikes until you find the right bike that feels RIGHT for you.
I think Whyte bikes from the UK started the short offset revolution. They came to market with the S-150 and the rest of the market went scrambling. I can tell the difference on tight switchbacks. Short offset works well with long top tube bikes, keeps that weight under the wheel on tight turns. 👍
Yep you are correct..i have a G160S with a 42mm offset.. they are also long low and slack ish. .Mondraker led the way as have Whyte.
I was demoing the new 2019 S-150C RS yesterday. I want one. 😁
Why not make a 0 ofset fork? Head angels could be even slacker.
@@erikd6124 you'd end up with fork binding being a big issue with a conventional telescopic fork
Nice video guys and the blog was super helpful as well. Currently running a Transition Smuggler with SBG and a 44mm offset fork and love the way she rides.
The original offset of my Stumpy (2018) is 46mm. I have been watching a fair few WorldWide Cyclery videos. And I decided to upgrade my rear shock and forks from the RockShox Monarch RT and RockShox Reba RL. To the Fox DPX2 and Fox 36 Fit4.
I cannot thank you enough for the videos. It has given me more knowledge and idea on what I need.
Off topic: I absolutely love orange bikes!
great video, You are very informative and explain things in an easy to understand manner. Just bought a 2019 Ripmo and now researching forks
Sweet and thanks!
Great explanation. All I took away was the prices keep rising and consumers are stupid enough to keep buying. They need to come up with new trends to justify price hikes. I will not spend what the industry considers mid tier let alone high tier. My old 26" $3.5k demo bike is still going strong. Paid $1100 on eBay and at the time that was more than I ever wanted to spend.
Haha for the average 3 day a week rider like myself it’s too much to care about. Just the fact that I’m on a full susp Giant trance bike as oppose to my 1997 rock hopper is a total improvement! Haha
Jeff, loved the video on boutique brands. Now, Santa Cruz Bikes. I have a friend who works there and here is why I think they are better than any bike brand over any "boutique" brand. Lifetime warranty on frames and wheels and competitively priced. You can get a frame for $2700-$2800 if you deal with the right shop or online company, online would have to be Competitive Cyclist would give that deal. Pawn Holdings, who bought SC, has put more money into their investment, which allows SC to now "O W N" their carbon manufacturing facility in Asia!
THE FACILITY DOES NOT MAKE ANY OTHER BRAND! Some of those in Asia, as you and I now, make several bike brands and quality cannot really be nailed down as wanted. Further, Santa Cruz owns their own testing carbon facility in Santa Cruz where they develop mules for new bikes, shapes of frames, and there they make the Reserve carbon wheels and the Santa Cruz bars, all in the USA. With the exception of ENVE, all other carbon wheels are made in ASIA, that I can think of, I may be wrong.
So what being bought out for Santa Cruz has allowed them to put more money into quality control and innovation giving them an edge over Yeti, Pivot, Evil, Ibis, Transition, etc... They can offer a lifetime warranty, but not only this they have told employees they want a 48 hour turnaround if any warranties need to be addressed. Most other brands will take weeks to get them addressed. I've had friends who have had cracked Yeti's and its been hell getting them to take of their customer.
I have a friend who left Yeti for this reason. HE paid $3100 for his frame and it cracked and they took about 6 weeks to get it all worked out. So Santa Cruz may not fall into "boutique" because they have the scratch now backing them up, but all the guys who were there before it was bought out are still there. Even Rob Roskopp, the original owner who sold it, is still there running it. Santa Cruz is in their own category that not even Giant, Specy, or Trek can touch.
Thank you for the insight and sharing your thoughts. Santa Cruz is definitely an awesome company and we love what they are doing. :)
Absolutely love the humour running through theses videos 👍👍
Thanks! We do our best to keep it light, bikes are supposed to be fun!
It is counterintuitive, but decreasing the fork offset adds trail, slacker head angle adds even more trail, there's just a ton of trail in these new offerings., its all about downhill performance, uphills will not be as pleasant as they were on such bikes..
Thanks for video and article. I've had some personal experience with reduced offset and steep head angle. I had a 2015 Giant Trance Advanced, which originally had a 140 fork on it, 67 head angle, 27.5 wheels. I put a Marzocchi 350CR (40mm offset, I think) on it at 160mm and it felt great (roughtly 66 HA with the extra 20mm of travel). I tried it at 150mm and it immediately felt nervous, like I was fighting to steer properly. I switched right back to 160. This tells me that there is a break point (as your article on the site mentions) wherein the reduced offset will not play well with a steeper head angle. It's a fine line, I was fine at 66 and frightened at 66.5 (roughly). My takeaway was that there are tipping points with bike fit/geometry that can dramatically change things. Glad to hear that most people are fine running 51 offset 29er forks on slacker bikes.
nice to see all these bike store making some cool videos. Keep it coming!
I think this is a nice one. I one time changed a fork offset and it was something...I didn't notice the difference. But I sure did it!
I'd like to see a blind test with the same geo spec bike and same wheelbase. However, with the exception that one has steeper head tube angle and one with smaller offset fork to see how much of a difference there is and if anyone can distinguish a difference. Can probably do the test with an angleset headset. It would be interesting.
I love your channel! Your vids are entertaining and really educational. Thanks so much!
Thank you for the kind words! Let us know if there are any topics you want to see covered :)
there's also a relationship between fork offset, and stem length. you'll feel a difference riding the same bike with a 35mm stem vs a 50mm stem.
Wow this was a really good explanation!! To be honest I didn’t even really notice offset forks but it makes sense for a longer wheelbase. BTW that smuggler is beastly looking!
Thank you!
That yeti behind you looks fantastic!
At the end i believe the truth benefit of different offset is, to create a bike size right in between two sizes.
So for the shorter or smaller frame, you choose more offset and a longer stem. But you stay smaller than the bigger sized bike.
You do this for not needing an ultra short 30mm stem. Because you will have less weight on the front tire, even with a short offset with the 30mm stem.
Just as a random point, the SBG from Transition was a collaboration between Transition and former UK Fox Importer, Chris Porter (currently at Geometron bikes). It was actually Chris that messed about with fork offset (bonus of having a lot of Fox forks to play with) and Transition heard about this and asked Chris if he would work with Transition.
Strangely, Chris Porter also worked with Mondraker( I have looked but seen no mention of them in this) 2013/14, I think.
FORWARD GEOMETRY Longer top tubes own brand 30mm stems... Fabulous handling bikes
Always good to know the little things. Little things mean allot. 👍
Good honest summary. Well done
Great explanation of confusing info. Thanks!
I prefer a big bike, lots of room, coming from riding dirt bikes it just seems right. I just purchased some 780mm bars and 60mm stem that made a huge difference. I'm 6'1, ride a Large frame and wished I had a XL. My next bike will definitely be bigger, my riding style I would say is AM/FR. I'm not focused on the climb but you need to climb to get your reward right? I think it's cool that the mountain bike has evolved into so many different ways. Building a bike to fit your style is the only way to go.
I agree! It is hard for some to keep that in mind and ignore the latest greatest trends. :)
Instead of getting a bigger bike, you should just make yourself smaller by cutting your feet off at the ankles. Then you’ll fit your bike perfectly! 😁. You could even try grafting your pedal axles onto the bones of your lower legs; you would be the first mountain bike cyborg!
Don’t mind me. Just a bit punchy from lack of sleep. 😉
@@keirfarnum6811 I was going to say.... who is this GENIUS 😜🤣
Nothing scares me more than a mondraker top tube
David Condon no I havent. Im sure theyre perfectly strong and well designed. They just look scarily thin. Mondraker wouldnt be making them still if they were destined to break.
very interesting.. I think i basically understand what is going on with the offset thing now.. good stuff....
G'day mate , absolutely love your vids, finally someone who explains everything simply . I just bought a 2021 scott aspect and wanted to upgrade the forks .couldn't decide between fox 34 or rockshox gold . After seeing your vid the rockshox could be the go , thanks mate . "Cyclepath"
Yoooo put the orange fox on the yeti
Another super informative video, this was very helpful. Thanks 👌
I’m so interest in offset now. I’m on an XC bike in summer an ebike in winter. The ebike was 275plus and came with a 51mm offset fork. I’ve gone to 29er wheels and that raised the BB (no biggy to me), but the bike is super long now. Wondering about running a shorted offset, just to make it feel more controlled on the steep climbs. What ever happened to TALAS forks from Fox?
My 2018 Transition Patrol with SBG has made it that much more fun to ride ! SBG for the win
Awesome!
I'll have to demo another Transition when down in the 'Ham. I tried to explain to the one of the staff how it felt to me, but he looked at me like a deer in the headlights. Felt like steering bus. No prior positive experience with a 29er before. Will give it another chance in the spring though. Positive atmosphere at their shop though.
nice overview really needed to hear it
Great video with tons of relevant information!
I think it’s safe to say that 90% will never notice the difference but they are the ones who can be convinced that they need a new bike with the latest slacker geometry and reduced offset fork - which compensates for the negative effects of the slacker HA :)
i love the way you said messing as if brands are a small child who is randomly buying things and just putting them on their bikes
I'm the same way. I'll ride anything and love it.... as long as everything works! Safe and fun time to all! Aloha
cool Blue mic. Good, informative video on a hot topic. I've yet to try a shorter offset but they are a big blip on the radar. I wonder if guitar-shredder Jeffrey still resides within, keeps a rig in the shop, and will ever feature the sound or make a Jeff Sounds vid featuring that kazoo and such...
Not sure what others have said, but Jeff looked far more nimble around those flatland obstacles on the Yeti opposed to the Transition, to me.
Reminds me of the auto industry. We have gone through a lot of transition. From gas powered to electric now hybrid. Then styling has been through a lot. Most popular design now is the SUV. Like the bike industry. Can’t blame them.
Stability and maneuverability without the flop, that's the goal. There's so many things going on within every bike design that things like HA, offset, and trail are just a piece of the puzzle. But yes, I believe everyone would notice the difference if you had a chance to ride the same bike with 51, 44 and 38mm offset forks.
Solid video. WOuld have been good to have a control using a single bike and different forks. I think fad is a bit crazy since the slack HTA AND reduced offset both slow steering down. I do love my slack bikes (my Evil Calling sitting at 64.5 HTA for example); however, I think it more about the steering feel you like as a rider and more about the PROPORTION of the offset to the length of stem. I think you should fit a stem that gives you the reach you like in the geo you want to ride in THEN choose the fork offset that is about equal(+/- up to 10mm) for trail to more aggressive riding. Just my .02 since I feel, even with reduced offset, that any stem less than 45mm feels too twitchy (yes I have tested a sentinel with a 40mm stem)
Thanks for your view and idea here, I mean, I haven't heard of relating the offset with the stem length. But I'll definitely keep an eye out for this kind of info ahead!
Hi, what’s the effect if I’m using 46 mm fork offset on a 29er and switch to 51 mm offset fork? Thx
I was wondering the same thing,the Slash 8 runs on a 44mm offset(correct me if im wrong) Rockshox Yari Fork,and im looking at the Fox 36 Grip 2 as an upgrade,but the Fox has a 51mm offset.I wonder if it will fit and whether or not it make a difference?
Have you read chris porter from the uk blog on geo and offsets etc? Some good views on bike progression
Thanks for your honest insight!
One consideration here is the type of trail that you ride on most frequently. I ride on are the tight, technical trails in the southeast, most often, And I rarely get up to the speeds you see on those wide open trails that you see over on the west coast. The higher the speed downhill, the more noticeable things like fork offset and slacker angles become. That's my presumption.
Very true but it will also effect things like climbing through tight switchbacks and/or descending technical tight trails.
Good points.
I have to say that was interesting , I ride yeti just saying, but I noticed at least to me that in your video the transition looked a little sluggish turning and took a little more body English to turn !?
GREAT VIDEO AS ALWAYS. THANK YOU.
😎
Doesn't the reduced offset shorten the wheelbase?
shane costa , slacker HT angle lengthens the wheelbase and the reduced offset shortens the wheelbase; ie a tradeoff affecting trail, wheelbase, and ultimately handling.
I was thinking of replacing my 44mm offset fork on Rocky Slayer for a 37mm fork and running the bike in a slacker geo setting. Would thismake the bike handle slow turns better and keep the downhill performance? This topic is quite confusing for me
What's next? Choppers? I can see banana seats making a comeback, maybe a shifter on the top tube?🤘🤘🤘
Simple_Pleasures Adventure_Crew 29 at the back, 26 in the front 🤘🤘🤘🤘
We can only hope
Dude! I like the way you think! I’m going for pink streamers hanging from my bars. They will make me faster.
Giant runs the shorter offset on the Trance 29er as well
Best thing about the mtb industry - bikes are changing and evolving and always getting more awesome
Worst thing about mtbs - things keep changing, standards dammit, too much tech arrggh!!!!
Exactly!
stuff gets lighter and more expensive
for a first full suspension bike what would you get.
Wow, excellent vid; very informative!
Great video once again 🤙. My question has nothing to do with offset forks and such. As far as the new boost drop outs go , like the 110 mm forks and frames ( not sure what the rear boost drop outs are). Is the boost thing similar to the offset thing where as it’s a small improvement and not hugely noticeable? Or is it really noticeable (in your opinion )? I’m one of those riders that kinda notices stuff on new bike but am not hugely aware of them.
Thanks for watching! The thing about Boost spacing is that it's already here and there is not much we can do about it. I could go on all day about why it was developed and why it took over has a standard but the truth is it improved some things and the entire industry switched to it so now that is what almost every bike is going to have and what hub and fork manufacturers are going to support. Fork Offset is definitely going to be a more noticeable feature change than boost spacing was when it came out but again will likely turn into something that slowly becomes the norm and than it will be hard to remember if it was a big advancement from the previous "standards".
rear boost dropouts are 148mm for trail and enduro. 150mm for downhill
@@WorldwideCyclery my frame is a 2018 but it has 135m QR dropouts. i fkn hate 135 QR. but i dont have 800 bux for a nukeproof scout frame and a new boost rear hub.
That was an excellent video! THANK YOU!
The grocers store had a delivery bike with slack geometry back in about 1970. Don't know the exact offset, but pretty sure they minimised it for weaving in and out of traffic :-)
How you steer the bike with counter steer ?
@01:49 what specialized bike is that
hahahahhaa "NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT MEANS BUT IT SOUNDS PROVOCATIVE" XDXDXD
So a shorter offset increases the trail measurement which also occurs with a slacker head angle and bigger wheels, wouldn't this mean that a shorter offset would decrease agility with low speed turning and tight switchbacks rather than making it feel more agile like what everyone says.
Yes, According to every article/video about trail I can remember. I demoed a pivot trail 429 that has the longer offset vs some 29ers with shorter offset and it definitely had quicker steering at low speed. BUT i did read an article on pinkpike or maybe enduro mag that interviewed a few designers from some different bike brands and they said the relationship between HTA, Wheel Base, and Offset can all effect each other in different ways depending on the ratios, and its not always simple. So they should just make offset adjustable with a flipchip on forks so we can try both.
If I have a 51mm fork can I switch it with a 44mm fork? Would it fit?
Any chance you can do a vid on the different suspension types and their effect (suspension action) on pedaling, coasting and breaking?
Incredible topic! I was actually waiting on you, Jeff, to make a video about it! Also, the scene from Will Ferrell from Blades of Glory is fuckin hilarious!! LMAO 😂 😂, anyway, I'm far from hypersensitive, and all bikes feel the same to me, except for a bigger wheel and how it rolls easier over stuff, and a full carbon frame stiffness vs aluminum. And that's about it for me. I still ride my 26 bike, with a 160 front with 37mm offset and 130 mm rear and I'm rocking it on it!
Thanks for the feedback! Happy to help :)
Los Robles jump park - nice :)
Appreciate your education on this
1:14 does that bike even have a top tube?
I just picked up the Specialized EVO and I'm in love slack and stable but still climbs well
2019 Devinci Troy GX LTD 29". 42- mm offset.
damn that Fox36 in Orange is Saxy!
Have a transition Sentinel. Yes the shorter offset makes a significant difference to how playful the bike is for 29 and bonus the front end grip is improved.
So I went from a 150mm- 51mm offset Fox 36, to a 160mm - 44mm offset Fox 36 . Did I do this right by going to a 160mm travel it should slacken the the head tube angle a bit by raising the front end of the bike 10mm. (Increasing trail) So should the 44mm offset negate the slightly slacker head tube angle by reducing the trail ? My goal was to get a similar ride but increase my travel.
costing more and people keep buying it. hit nail on the head.
Help needed please, if you reduce the offset of the fork therefore bringing the wheel closer in, does that make make the bike shorter wheelbase, steeper head angle? Thanks.
My Stumpjumper 2016 29er which I bought in June 2015 came with a 46 offset 140mm fork, I have now changed it to 51’ 150mm Yari fork which makes it slacker & longer which I prefer 🤔😘
You might have preferred a slacker hta generated by a new frame instead. When are we gonna se 0 ofset forks?
The simple answer to why manufacturers keep changing things: To sell more product
Exactly.. Got in to this over on mtbr forums.. Guys were calling me out cuz Im using my 2016 pike 51 offset on my sb130 frame build.. Like was going to completely screw up the handling and geo! 😂 Its 7mm! It is nothing I notice!
Yeah it's ridiculous, I personally don't have the time or money to test all these different geometry bikes, just build something you know will suit your style.
Yeah.
And that's business.. :D
Riiight. Like there's been no improvement in the past 2, 5, 10, or 20 years.
Hi, do you have any idea why Evil didn't adapt the shorter offset in the Offering model ? they are pretty much copied the SBG geometry 1:1 from the smuggler (in x-low configuration) ?
Seems to just be 44mm only run a 27.5 according to my for 38 forks with fit 4 and my mates black grip 2 has 27.5/29 sticker on his for both wheel sizes its got me confused as looks no difference side by side so not sure if my for can take a 29in wheel or not?
i cant learn barspins because my 2008 fork as 2 meter offset. and the tire hits my foot when i try to rotate my bars 180º
My 2023 rosco 7 frame is specific for a 44mm offset fork from 140mm to 150mm travel if I insert a 42mm offset RockShox lyrik select? Will i ruin the geometry since I would be 2mm less then the bike frames specified 44mm offset?
How about if i just want to speed up the steering at high speed? I've fallen in love with the Mojo HD4 but it seemed slow to come out of a turn... as in, i was telling it to go straight again and it was still trying to carve for a second longer. What would help that out?
So is what is better on a 27.5 for jumps and downhill 37mm or 44 mm offset, please answer
I would also like it if they could make the axle point further up the lower leg i.e. Make the lower leg longer. Sorta like the motocross bikes have, with a bunch of fork extending down past the axle. It looks cool.
But, it seems counter productive for a mountainbike that wants to be as light as possible and has a much larger wheel that would already have the length and modulation enough for good function, right?
Yea mainly it looks good but I think it might be done to allow more upper and lower leg engagement distance for more stiffness.
It was Chris Porter from Mojo Suspension playing with different offsets (and that resulted with few long articles (PB, BikeRadar etc.)). Later Whyte started reducing offset on their bikes and Transition followed (they read these articles and played with different offsets - they've said that in one interview).
Interesting I have not heard that. Thanks for sharing.
Im wondering. would a 150mm fork on an orange crush frame with a good geometry?