I see Siegfried as a Tragic Hero, given what we have seen in the first 4 episodes, all he wished was to help others. Betrayed by those he has helped, He took his own life by any means
When you think about it, Fate/Stay Night really has the perfect archetypal representation of every dimension of a hero. Archer is the embodiment of an idealized hero, always acting for the greater good and the sake of others-- and in the end, the world and his own dreams betrayed him. That's a sentiment found all over folklore, myth, and legend, and I don't think that's a coincidence. King Arthur. Siegfrued. Achilles. Karna. Almost every righteous hero in mythology is always betrayed for their good intent
It would be cool if Arthur was revived and morderd vs Arthur again... Shirou was so trash, he was so weak so he never allowed Arthur to use her full power.
with that invisibility cloak, let us see siegfried as an assassin He could be summoned because he fought and killed bandits while invisible, and his dragon slaying legend is interpreted as a surprise attack
Siegfried really did embody what a true hero was. In words of Uncle Ben: With great power comes great responcibility. Siegfried understood and lived by that code. A true hero, if there ever was one, even in death.
I mean... that's how she wanted it. Like Spartan sex. You want it? Earn it. She was a darn warrior princess after all. And it was either help him do that, or Gunter would eventually be killed if the rue was up. Siegfried only ever felt grief for doing so, and gladly let himself die to make up for it. So yeah, he made a dishonorable choice to save a life, but lord it wasn't a back alley rape scene. It was a woman who would only allow her man to bed her if he could hold her down. I imagine she honestly just laid there like "When.....did you get this strong now?" It was a different time and age friend. (Also fake.)
Two things you missed. When he drunk the blood of Fafnir's blood he learned the language of the birds and he roasted Fafnir's heart and ate to gain wisdom/prophecy.
Depends on which version you read. In the Völsunga, where the hero is called Sigurd, he burns himself while cooking Fafnir's heart for Regin, Fafnir's brother. The grease and blood on his fingers retained a fraction of the heart's magical powers, and so he gains the ability to speak to the birds, who tell him of how Regin plans to kill him and take the dragon's treasure all for himself, and he receives the gift of prophecy and wisdom after consuming the heart itself, which I believe Regin offered to take in lieu of gold. ... Come to think of it, there's a precedent for Siegfried to be summoned as a Berserker. If you interpret the story loosely enough, then the heart's 'wisdom' may have actually been a kind of madness that made him paranoid and greedy, at least temporarily, and cause him to _think_ he could hear the birds speak. After all, that power is only really brought up one time and Fafnir himself was originally a dwarf whose greed corrupted him into killing his father and later turned him into a dragon. Begs the question as to how eating the heart of a creature brought to the point of beastial mindlessness through sheer greed could impart wisdom An interesting premise, but I'm getting off topic... In the Nibelungenlied, where the hero is called Siegfried, it's mentioned that he became invulnerable after bathing in the blood of a dragon(supposedly Fafnir), but there is no mention of him gaining any other powers beyond this, nor him feasting on the heart of the dragon. In fact, the whole affair of the dragon is mentioned almost in passing, ironically by Hagen, who is the one that ultimately kills Siegfried. So yeah. There are some serious discrepancies. The Nibelungenlied, for example, has three recognized versions, with dozens of translations that have been made over the centuries.
@Brutalyte616 I am going with traditional telling of the tale and leaving out the whole Regin fest so I can talk about two other powers he should have. His name changes per language being spoken Siegfried is the German telling while Siguard/Sigurðr is the Norse. Both are fine just and just wanted to point more of picture of how crazy powerful Saber of Black is. He has as many powers as Gil has weapons
For the whole "didn't notice an invisible force", it was because Gunther was the one wrestling Brunhildr while Siegfried assisted while invisible. Also the bedroom challenge was for Gunther to prove himself wrestling her, not "beating into submission", at least not the version I know.
>this chick has to be the most oblivious person we've ever come across I mean... Brynhildr's beloved list in FGO contain those who are similar to Sigurd in her eyes, and it contains 3 GIRLS and A HORSE So yeah, Sigurd's gonna need some thicc megane for her
I like how detailed you went, even mentioned how he got Balmung and his invicibility cloak, fun thing he also got it during the battle on Nibelungenland after killing a dwarf. But the thing is that Brunhild is NOT Brynhildr, they may share similarities, but at the end of the day they're different. There's also the thing that Siegfried didn't actually drink the blood of Fafnir, he only soaked on it which also gave him a dragon core like Arturia's. He's also from Xanten, Germany, not from the Netherlands. And his parents' name were Siegmund and Sieglinde.
No he was born in Xanten which is very much not in the Netherlands neither back in the day nor now. The area was called Niederrhein (Netherrhine) or Niederlande (yes Netherlands). It doesn't refer to the country we know today but a part of land or rhine which is nether or down. It's not a name but a description
I love how kings always are dicks to heroes of immense power. My skill as king would have been sure marry my sister if she wants. You can be my best friend while we are at it. Cause a neigh invincible swordsmen for a brother in law would be amazing
I guess Im asking the wrong place but does someone know a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow lost the password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Lewis Boston i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Achilles didnt get his heel doused in the gods flame so that was his weak spot. Sigfried had a leaf on his back so didnt get the dragons blood touched there making that his weakness. Hmmmmm
Compare Saber of Black with the Lostbelt Saber, Sigurd. One has super toughness and a sword that fires dragon slaying beams. The other has a pair of wisdom increasing glasses and can either launch dragon slaying beams on par with Excalibur or PUNCH the multiple blades of his single weapon at one target.
"really useless" Hmmm just summoning his treasure as one of his noble phantasms? That reminds me of a certain character...that really weak one, Gilgamesh!
Sounds like the playable character in an RPG just going around and doing quests for all those incompetent NPCs. Also wouldn't that invisibility cloak just allow him to be an assassin class as well except without the whole "You can't attack with invisibility active" thing?
I always loved the story of Siegfried..I knew about sknce my childhood and his story sas always so fascinating to me. I was really excited to see him in a Fate series..but sadly they really ruined him for me with fucking Sieg. It's really sad that they killed him off so quickly and the annoying Humunculus takes his place
Seigfried and akillies are really similar in that they are great heroes but can only be killed by having one spot on thier bodys struck siegs back was covered by the leaf givving him that weakness and akillies heal as his mother dipped him in the river styx holding him by his ankel leaving his heal untouched by the waters
My mind was blown today. Nordic mythology in anime, I'm Norwegian. I must watch Fate Apocrypha now. (Sigurd's Nordic, and Siegfried is Germanic but their the same person)
Seigfried is my favorite servant and is one of the most powerful sabers to ever exist. only a handful of servants could even wound him and even then it would take an A class ability or np to wound him and they would effect him like an e class ability leaving him with only a scratch. if he hadn't self sacrificed it is very possible he would have won the grail war himself
So, long story short, Siegfried is a tremendous badass and everyone else from his origin story is a bitch because they either lie or cheat to get what they want wheras Siegfried faces his problems head on like a real Norseman.
Cake# 'Siegfried' is definitely German, but Fafnir is a dragon from Norse mythology, and Siegfried's supposed origins are strikingly similar to that of Sigurd, the hero of the Völsunga saga who is credited with the slaying of Fafnir. The Völsunga itself is apparently older than the Nibelungenlied, which details events _after_ Siegfried killed the dragon and bathed in its blood.
His wife Kriemhild is also quite impressive, since after his death she took Balmung and led a giant revenge campaign for his sake and succeeded in the end.
I know this is really late, but Siegfried in the Fate series did not drink dragons blood, he bathed in the blood of Fafnir which gave him the armor of fafnir. The person who ate fafnirs heart was Sigurd, sigurd gained the crystalisation of wisdom. The Crystalisation of wisdom is basically modern glasses. EDIT: The Brynhildr of the fate series is not the one in Siegfrieds legend.
their the sam but fate decided to be cheeky or the apocrypha writer decided to separate them despite the fact that Sigurd and siegfried are accepted as the same hero across the board
The saddest thing is that the trailers made FA to be marketed as the ultimate battle between 2 Sabers. I really liked the part where Modred calls Siegfried Faker either in the trailer/intro. I just wish Saber of Black lived to the end of the show to fight off against the advertised Fake Saber battle. Oh and every time Saber shouted Faker I always assumed it meant that she believed the stereotypical "there is only room for one of us here" thingy. I assumed Apocrypha would be about servants killing their counterparts of the same class till the holy grail war ended up with one servant of each class... Alas, I was royally dissatisfied, pissed, and disappointed after learning that "Faker" actually meant Siegfried only existing through Sieg. Thus denying us viewers and Modred the Saber Vs Saber battle of the all of the Fate Nasuverse... Double Whoa Gundam! 😫😭😧🙅♂️
If true Siegfried fought Mordred though, she would lose rather fast. Even a projected Siegfried was able to nearly beat a Command Seal bolstered Mordred, and Sieg had no mana supply. True Siegfried's stats outclass her, his lore outclasses her, and he does triple damage to those of Dragon Blood, which Mordred inherited from Artoria. I love Mordred, but Siegfried is the guy on par with Karna, and this guy can only be hit by A rank attacks and higher which are subtracted by B rank, making even A rank attacks no better than E's, making the like's of Karna's spear only able to make small scratches on his body and same vice versa due to Karna's similar invulnerable ability. They kicked off Siegfried early because he's broken as all fuck lol
why you put Gundam pray in here lol anyway if you want true servant battle i recommend just play game or wait for new series or movies come out next years
NoxTheRegicide no this is incorrect according to his stats his swordplay is much worse than Mordred and not only that she is much faster than him, I mean sure he can kill her with Balmug but Clarent is strong enough to counter, Mordred is much like her mother who is incredibly strong as a saber just with higher defense stats and a weaker noble phantasim, Seigfried not being a knight or in a position to know many good sword techniques is vastly outclassed in direct combat with any knight servant, his only advantage is his strength being much higher but if it was a serious duel and Mordred wasnt weakened by blasted tree she would crush Seig
This fight was Sieg vs Mordred, a pseudo Servant who is drastically weaker than Siegfried himself, Sieg stated such himself during his battle against Karna. And what are you talking about? Siegfried's swordsmanship is one stated to have 'Surpassed Mankind' and 'Able to match a thousand.' Mordred's feats in both Fate and actual Legend do not even touch Siegfried's. Mordred was not weakened, she was healed up and even bolstered by a command seal because her attacks couldn't breach this Sieg's 'Armor of Fafnir' noble Phantasm, something she herself states. Siegfried stomps Mordred any fight when on even terms. Mordred BARELY matched this shadow of the real Siegfried while being bolstered past her normal capabilities. Don't pay such close attention to strict stats anyway, Artoria outclassed Sasaki Kojirou in almost all stats, and she was outclassed by his sheer skill and couldn't even touch him. Skill being something Siegfried's legendary sword style that transcends humanity, being FAR greater than Mordred. She can't hurt him due to his Armor of Fafnir, he does almost triple damage against her since she has Dragon Blood and he has the Dragon Slayer trait, and he outclasses her in skill. So.... no buddy. Your waifu doesn't stand a chance, nor could she take on Karna.
@@NewMe9013 balmung has a piece of true aeter a sustance from the age of gods so i was asking if that can harm him, becouse sigfried lost some really good skill for saber class and i dont know how he activate his NP
Sorry to ask, but were you salty about Karma fight when you did this video? Because it kinda seems like it and you also overlooked a few points, which is not usual for your videos. I really missed two obvious parallels which strike me as too glaring to not be mentioned. The first is How Balmung and Excalibur stories have some resemblance. Another Balmung origin, not mentioned in the video, say Odin himself stuck it in a tree from which every man tries to pull it, but fails. That is until Sigmung, Siegfried's father is able to pull it. It was still named Gram at this time, until it broke and was reforged into Balmung. This break/reforging could also explain the 2 sword in 1 theory. This is incredibly similar to Excalibur's origin, as not only it had the test of taking it out the stone/tree, but the sword from the stone also was broke and Arthur had to seek the Lady of the lake to get a new one. The second parallel in my mind is to a different character, Archer Emiya. I think Siegfried addition and how his story was interpreted was a shout out to the Hero dilemma which is a recurring theme in the series. Both of them lived long heroic lives, but found no fulfillness in it. This lead Siegfried to allow his original murder and then kill himself again in Apocrypha without any hesitation. While archer doesn't try suicide as normally as Siegfried, he goes back in time to kill himself, which sounds suicidal enough for me.
Might be a translation error or one of the cases where you interchanged versions, but the cowl, cape whatever actually allowed siegfried to disguise himself. he disguised himself as the king and then beat brunhilde into submission. as you said, there are also versions of the invisibility cloak, but in those he just steals her rings and belt, wich give her her abnormal streingh. either way, dick moove siegfried. Also hagen did not act for the honor of his king, but becasue he wanted to marry krimhilde originally.
Siegfried is the dragon he slays. Because of the one weakness he has, it allowed him to remain human instead of a evil ferocious dragon and allowed him to be human enough to die to human affairs, his one weakness is what makes both a person and a hero
Feels like you had some negative bias towards this one. I say this because 1: Your research isnt as good when compared to your previous episodes. 2: You leave out the various mentions of his great skill as a swords man which meant knowing his weakness does not translate into and easy win as he was never bested in combat(the dude killed giants, armies and a dragon before getting magic powers, i mean come on). Also, it would seem the Siegfried in this has blurry lines with his relation to Sigurd(who will be revealed in FGO later) in that they are both the same character due to their relation with fafnir, but are not due to the fact that they wield different weapons(which are conceptually the same) Gram and Balmung. I would say their relationship in fate is similar to that of Artoria and Arthur Prototype.
no there relationship is different for Arthur and artoria sigurd and Siegfried are the same person and are accepted as the same person even having their names being used interchangeably in myth if apocrypha held to the rules their would be no sigurd and siegfried only sigurd
I looked into it after this video, but Hagen was actually Siegfried's best friend and they planned his death together. And then afterwards Kriemhield spending 20 years trying to kill her brother and hagen.
I know I al quite late to the comment section, but an interesting fact about the Niebelungenlied is that in german, the original language, lied translates to song but also suffering
The Volsung Saga is an earlier version of the Niebelung Saga, I believe. The Volsung Saga was actually focused on by Tolkien, and I've read a translation by him. Very very interesting.
Would have preferred if they merged Wagner's Siegfried and Nibelungen Siegfried to create this Demi-god knight similar to sigurd but with. Few changes with the tales merging
Your comment at the end made me realize something. The servants of black were really underwhelming other than vlad and chiron (maybe astolfo?). Red had mordred, karna, achilles... basically everyone except Shakespeare. Black would have lost in hours if it was strictly two sides against each other.
Achilles alone would probably have won the war for Red if Black didn't have Chiron, since Chiron was their only Servant with high enough Divinity to hurt Achilles.
That doesn't even cut it. If vlad was Summoned in one of his 2 original class of lancer red vlad or berserker vlad and not the Romania ver of him, siegfried is the most strongest they had and the best chance for them to survive. The only reason chiron was able to be the only one to fight achilles is because he had divinity. Imagine of instead of siegfried, sigurd the king of warriors was Summoned. Mind you, sigurd is a demi God which means he has divinity and his sword gram was said to be the equal of excalibur.
Nibelungenlied means the story of the Nibelung kings which plot is on the Land of Burgundy reign by a queen, Brunhild with his king, Gunther ...the hero of this story is Siegfried and the heroine is Kriemhild. Siegfried has also weakness like Achilles, Achilles is immortal and cannot be dead by anyone though there's a thing that her mother forget to anoint, which was is his heel and that ended him killed by Hector in the story of Iliad. Siegfried's weakness spot was his shoulder. Killed by a traitor, Kriemhild said the where the weakness spot is located. That killed Siegfried in the lake where his gonna drink some water to quench his thirst.
I'm not shore If you have read the book but the reson she put the mark on his back is becos she thort he was going into combat and Hagen sead it was so he cod keep him safe
@@DeckerJimenez7014 well, imagine Apoc but nobody has enough mana to use their noble phantasms, kinda like how Stay Night was Siegfried has massive base stats and a powerful defensive, passive noble phantasm that barely takes any mana, imagine him in Stay Night and you can probably see how he'd demolish most servants even with somebody as terrible as Shirou as his master
@@DeckerJimenez7014 FGO is the furthest from lore strength you can get, star ratings also aren't based on power but on how much money the character can make them
Fate portrays something wrong: the sword of Siegfried: Balmung. In the real song of the Nibelungen, the sword is called "Gram", whereas the sword of Sigurd (the norse hero from the Völsung saga) is called Balmung. Nasuverse mixed them up.
I actually like the one where Siegfried died for his romance with Brynhildr the Valkyrie - it is more melodramatic and traject... and getting a Valkyrie to fall in love with you is G.
Having 2 fafnir is horrifying, especially since dragons are the strongest phantasmals there's is, and fafnir is also a exception, being an evil dragon he's stronger than regular adult dragons.
@@CallMeNoa that's only in the anime adaptation, in FGO and i think in the novels as well it says he's from Germany which is kinda obvious considering he has a German name made up of German words that don't even exist in dutch
yo if you are reading this comment I'm on some real right now shit right now thank you for doing videos like this man i love your channel im showing all my friends and telling them to subscribe immediately IMMEDIATELY
yup! in Siegfried's legend Brynhildr (Brunhild, Brynhild...depends on the version) is the queen but in his video he mistook (the image he chose at 3:56) Brynhildr the valkyrie and Brynhildr the queen.Those are different characters just like Siegfried and Sigurd are distinctive heroic spirits in the Nasuverse.
@@marunui7900 not their the same even in the volsunga saga where sigurd meets brynhildr for a second time and shes a princess or a queen fate apocrypha writer screwed up the mythos
I feel like Sieg gets way too much of a bad rep sometimes. Does he have tons of plot armor? Yes, but that's not really anything new for Fate protagonists *Glances at Shirou Emita.** Plus, I found his story arc of wanting to become human and make something of his life rather than die as cannon fodder more engaging than "I want to be a hero because my dad wanted to be one." It just sucks that two Heroic Spirits had to die just to make Sieg useful to the story.
I'll give that he can be a bit bland at times, but... He's a homunculus made for the sole purpose of being a magic battery and cannon fodder. Kinda figures he'd have no personality to speak of at first. Him developing emotions could be considered part of his story arc; granted, I'll admit that it's not handled as gracefully as it could have been, but you at least see him display a degree of emotion in the last few episodes.
Shirou does, admittedly, have more character than Sieg. I'll give you that. However you can't deny that he also stumbles into a LOT of plot conveniences... Such as running into a shack with a summoning circle his dad left him and summoning Artoria by COMPLETE accident because he happens to have Avalon inside him? Or being so innately skilled with magic that, despite the lack of proper training, his Projection magic can make copies of even legendary weapons and manifests into a Reality Marble?
Gold Wade Not running more like being pushed into the shack. It wasn't left for him -wasn't even a summoning circle just a magic circle- . To be honest summoning a servant by accident is more common in fate than you'd think. A guy summons a berserker just by doing nothing and holding a knife. No magic circle just stand there. -Granted that grail war was fucked- Anyway you calling bs about him summoning artoria and having ubw is the equivalent to me calling bs to Siegfried giving away his heart to Sieg magically healing him and then being able to turn into Siegfried. Gotta get the story going some how. A little bs to push the plot forward. Anything after that though is fair game.
Precisely. I'm not trying to say Sieg is an AMAZING protagonist or that he's necessarily better than Shirou, just that he's not the first Fate protagonist with plot armor who gains BS abilities. Sieg has his flaws, I just feel sometimes like the fandom exaggerates those flaws a bit. He's not the best character but he's not the worst, either.
I see Siegfried as a Tragic Hero, given what we have seen in the first 4 episodes, all he wished was to help others. Betrayed by those he has helped, He took his own life by any means
When you think about it, Fate/Stay Night really has the perfect archetypal representation of every dimension of a hero. Archer is the embodiment of an idealized hero, always acting for the greater good and the sake of others-- and in the end, the world and his own dreams betrayed him. That's a sentiment found all over folklore, myth, and legend, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
King Arthur. Siegfrued. Achilles. Karna. Almost every righteous hero in mythology is always betrayed for their good intent
I actually really wish Siegfried and Jeanne had gotten to interact more, I feel like they could have had a cool relationship
So do I, I also keep thinking of King Arthur and Siegfried interaction too if there were to be one.
It would be cool if Arthur was revived and morderd vs Arthur again... Shirou was so trash, he was so weak so he never allowed Arthur to use her full power.
with that invisibility cloak, let us see siegfried as an assassin
He could be summoned because he fought and killed bandits while invisible, and his dragon slaying legend is interpreted as a surprise attack
Invincible Not invisible
@@bonifacio6899 hes both invisible and invincible, are you watching the video?
Siegfried really did embody what a true hero was. In words of Uncle Ben: With great power comes great responcibility. Siegfried understood and lived by that code. A true hero, if there ever was one, even in death.
Александр Костин Hero of justice Siegfried
I guess Spidey and him would be best bros.
Except for when he restrained Brynhild so her husband could rape her. Not very heroic imo, just saying.
I mean... that's how she wanted it. Like Spartan sex. You want it? Earn it. She was a darn warrior princess after all. And it was either help him do that, or Gunter would eventually be killed if the rue was up. Siegfried only ever felt grief for doing so, and gladly let himself die to make up for it. So yeah, he made a dishonorable choice to save a life, but lord it wasn't a back alley rape scene. It was a woman who would only allow her man to bed her if he could hold her down. I imagine she honestly just laid there like "When.....did you get this strong now?" It was a different time and age friend. (Also fake.)
Very True
Two things you missed. When he drunk the blood of Fafnir's blood he learned the language of the birds and he roasted Fafnir's heart and ate to gain wisdom/prophecy.
And here I thought he couldn't get any more metal
Depends on which version you read.
In the Völsunga, where the hero is called Sigurd, he burns himself while cooking Fafnir's heart for Regin, Fafnir's brother. The grease and blood on his fingers retained a fraction of the heart's magical powers, and so he gains the ability to speak to the birds, who tell him of how Regin plans to kill him and take the dragon's treasure all for himself, and he receives the gift of prophecy and wisdom after consuming the heart itself, which I believe Regin offered to take in lieu of gold.
... Come to think of it, there's a precedent for Siegfried to be summoned as a Berserker. If you interpret the story loosely enough, then the heart's 'wisdom' may have actually been a kind of madness that made him paranoid and greedy, at least temporarily, and cause him to _think_ he could hear the birds speak. After all, that power is only really brought up one time and Fafnir himself was originally a dwarf whose greed corrupted him into killing his father and later turned him into a dragon. Begs the question as to how eating the heart of a creature brought to the point of beastial mindlessness through sheer greed could impart wisdom
An interesting premise, but I'm getting off topic...
In the Nibelungenlied, where the hero is called Siegfried, it's mentioned that he became invulnerable after bathing in the blood of a dragon(supposedly Fafnir), but there is no mention of him gaining any other powers beyond this, nor him feasting on the heart of the dragon. In fact, the whole affair of the dragon is mentioned almost in passing, ironically by Hagen, who is the one that ultimately kills Siegfried.
So yeah. There are some serious discrepancies. The Nibelungenlied, for example, has three recognized versions, with dozens of translations that have been made over the centuries.
Does Django Unchained not count?
@Brutalyte616 I am going with traditional telling of the tale and leaving out the whole Regin fest so I can talk about two other powers he should have. His name changes per language being spoken Siegfried is the German telling while Siguard/Sigurðr is the Norse. Both are fine just and just wanted to point more of picture of how crazy powerful Saber of Black is. He has as many powers as Gil has weapons
@@Brutalyte616 but Siegfried and Sigurd are two different servants
He defeated 12 giants and 700 warriors
Such a badass
For the whole "didn't notice an invisible force", it was because Gunther was the one wrestling Brunhildr while Siegfried assisted while invisible. Also the bedroom challenge was for Gunther to prove himself wrestling her, not "beating into submission", at least not the version I know.
Not sure if this has been said before but Siegfried is not of Norse mythology, he is only from Germanic folklore.
AquaLion GG yeppp
So no one knows siegfried is the king of the netherland? (Im talking about the lore of fates) I forgot to ask why war broke out?
John Benedict Cariazo I’ve not mentioned anything about what he was or where he came from only which belief system he’d fall under.
@@johnbenedictcariazo3068 he is?! I'm both flattered and disgusted
The Niebelungen sage to be specific, my dad told me the story often
His weakness is literally Achilles heel.
But it an even worse place
Iapitus McHeimer Yeah siegfried has to try really hard to hide his weak point.
achilles been setup and killed by god themself not like a normal mortal would've had that chance to kill him without divine help
Siegfried's back spot
My favorite 5 heroes are gilgamesh karna achilles ushiwaka and hercules
It's a shame he gave up his life for carboard-kun
Kiritsugu, yes.
Shirou....no.
Amber Valkerie still more interesting than hakuno
Some people don't understand Shirou at all, I don't really blame them tho since they only watched the anime and didn't read the Visual Novel...
In the VN you can actually read what he thinks, so he doesn't look like an idiot.
Tbh, with his shitty master, he wouldn’t go far in the war
so basicly he is dovahkin
His long ancestor.
LOL
siegfried is lit I've always thought of him as someone to admire
Oh boy, wait till you play fgo
@@Sleepyhead156 hmm
@@Sleepyhead156 if you mean siegfried dealing more damage with his aoe np against dragons than a single target musashi can, then yes.
he is not someone to admire hes the person you steer clear from
ah Sumanai-kun, was waiting for your spotlight
Moral of story: if you gonna bath in the blood of your enemy, don't do it under a tree, and check for surrounding leafes
>this chick has to be the most oblivious person we've ever come across
I mean... Brynhildr's beloved list in FGO contain those who are similar to Sigurd in her eyes, and it contains 3 GIRLS and A HORSE
So yeah, Sigurd's gonna need some thicc megane for her
I like how detailed you went, even mentioned how he got Balmung and his invicibility cloak, fun thing he also got it during the battle on Nibelungenland after killing a dwarf. But the thing is that Brunhild is NOT Brynhildr, they may share similarities, but at the end of the day they're different.
There's also the thing that Siegfried didn't actually drink the blood of Fafnir, he only soaked on it which also gave him a dragon core like Arturia's. He's also from Xanten, Germany, not from the Netherlands. And his parents' name were Siegmund and Sieglinde.
Awesome he was a prince of the netherlands.
Finally my country is relevant a bit in anime hahaha
Mee eens.
The Netherlands did not exist back then :P
Yanuchi Uchiha: Anime, Games and Ramdomness don’t ruin this for us haha
No he was born in Xanten which is very much not in the Netherlands neither back in the day nor now. The area was called Niederrhein (Netherrhine) or Niederlande (yes Netherlands). It doesn't refer to the country we know today but a part of land or rhine which is nether or down. It's not a name but a description
I love how kings always are dicks to heroes of immense power. My skill as king would have been sure marry my sister if she wants. You can be my best friend while we are at it. Cause a neigh invincible swordsmen for a brother in law would be amazing
Dude! Hahahahahaha this legit made me luagh!
Mostly of the reasons are the same as a president, once you have the power, you dont want to give it away.
I guess Im asking the wrong place but does someone know a method to log back into an Instagram account..?
I somehow lost the password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Archer Alden Instablaster :)
@Lewis Boston i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now.
Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Achilles didnt get his heel doused in the gods flame so that was his weak spot. Sigfried had a leaf on his back so didnt get the dragons blood touched there making that his weakness. Hmmmmm
the Story of a man who died because he was too Kind to Live
Compare Saber of Black with the Lostbelt Saber, Sigurd. One has super toughness and a sword that fires dragon slaying beams. The other has a pair of wisdom increasing glasses and can either launch dragon slaying beams on par with Excalibur or PUNCH the multiple blades of his single weapon at one target.
"really useless" Hmmm just summoning his treasure as one of his noble phantasms? That reminds me of a certain character...that really weak one, Gilgamesh!
Barking Shark Siegfried just summons gold, not magical weapons
@@orionar2461 his gold and weapons not just gold
TBH, Gold coins traveling at Mach 10 would be even more devastating that Spears, Swords and Axes...
@AquaLion GG it does, coins have can ricochet. with other words, it would be like a mach 10 coin grenade
@@yanuchiuchihaanimegamesand3907 Gilgamesh swords travel at mach speeds as well bud
wow, you could just hear the salt piling up in that last sentence.
Shirou: We have the son of a litteral sun god
Darnic: We have someone from the Netherlands
GG :)
Sounds like the playable character in an RPG just going around and doing quests for all those incompetent NPCs.
Also wouldn't that invisibility cloak just allow him to be an assassin class as well except without the whole "You can't attack with invisibility active" thing?
Siegfried is my favorite saber you made an awesome video about him.
Woo my FGO servant that has carried me through the whole game lol
.. that trash carried you how
Touyata Gaming lmao everyone always hates on him
jesjay25 Just remember bring saint george with him.
Cake# why tho?
jesjay25 Saint george's np casts the dragon trait on an opponent so it helps Siegfried greatly.
I always loved the story of Siegfried..I knew about sknce my childhood and his story sas always so fascinating to me. I was really excited to see him in a Fate series..but sadly they really ruined him for me with fucking Sieg. It's really sad that they killed him off so quickly and the annoying Humunculus takes his place
wait, i think siegfried is german, not nordic
(sigurd is the one nordic)
Bobby Aditya Eka Pratama Yeah Sigurd is the nordic one
Nordic myth has a lot to do with german culture at least back than.
German myth belongs to celtic myths which is almost the same as nordic myths.
well Fafnir is defiantly nordic
Exactly. I was about to say the same ^^
Seigfried and akillies are really similar in that they are great heroes but can only be killed by having one spot on thier bodys struck siegs back was covered by the leaf givving him that weakness and akillies heal as his mother dipped him in the river styx holding him by his ankel leaving his heal untouched by the waters
3:07 frickin Achilles’ shoulderblade 🤣
Wow, 12 giants and an army of 700, and this was before he got balmung or his cloak and became invincible. Are we sure he's no master swordsman?
Sumanai-kun , the long lost ancestor of the Dovahkin
My mind was blown today. Nordic mythology in anime, I'm Norwegian. I must watch Fate Apocrypha now.
(Sigurd's Nordic, and Siegfried is Germanic but their the same person)
Seigfried is my favorite servant and is one of the most powerful sabers to ever exist. only a handful of servants could even wound him and even then it would take an A class ability or np to wound him and they would effect him like an e class ability leaving him with only a scratch. if he hadn't self sacrificed it is very possible he would have won the grail war himself
someone should make an isekai where only people that are too good for any other world gets together and gets their wholesome moments
He is my favorite hero and he kills himself to save a laboratory rat. At least I saw him again when the boy transform.
So, long story short, Siegfried is a tremendous badass and everyone else from his origin story is a bitch because they either lie or cheat to get what they want wheras Siegfried faces his problems head on like a real Norseman.
Brutalyte616 Siegfried is German.
Cake# 'Siegfried' is definitely German, but Fafnir is a dragon from Norse mythology, and Siegfried's supposed origins are strikingly similar to that of Sigurd, the hero of the Völsunga saga who is credited with the slaying of Fafnir. The Völsunga itself is apparently older than the Nibelungenlied, which details events _after_ Siegfried killed the dragon and bathed in its blood.
His wife Kriemhild is also quite impressive, since after his death she took Balmung and led a giant revenge campaign for his sake and succeeded in the end.
@@Brutalyte616 the volsunga saga and Nibelungenlied tell the story of the same guy
I know this is really late, but Siegfried in the Fate series did not drink dragons blood, he bathed in the blood of Fafnir which gave him the armor of fafnir. The person who ate fafnirs heart was Sigurd, sigurd gained the crystalisation of wisdom. The Crystalisation of wisdom is basically modern glasses. EDIT: The Brynhildr of the fate series is not the one in Siegfrieds legend.
their the sam but fate decided to be cheeky or the apocrypha writer decided to separate them despite the fact that Sigurd and siegfried are accepted as the same hero across the board
The saddest thing is that the trailers made FA to be marketed as the ultimate battle between 2 Sabers. I really liked the part where Modred calls Siegfried Faker either in the trailer/intro.
I just wish Saber of Black lived to the end of the show to fight off against the advertised Fake Saber battle.
Oh and every time Saber shouted Faker I always assumed it meant that she believed the stereotypical "there is only room for one of us here" thingy. I assumed Apocrypha would be about servants killing their counterparts of the same class till the holy grail war ended up with one servant of each class...
Alas, I was royally dissatisfied, pissed, and disappointed after learning that "Faker" actually meant Siegfried only existing through Sieg. Thus denying us viewers and Modred the Saber Vs Saber battle of the all of the Fate Nasuverse... Double Whoa Gundam! 😫😭😧🙅♂️
If true Siegfried fought Mordred though, she would lose rather fast. Even a projected Siegfried was able to nearly beat a Command Seal bolstered Mordred, and Sieg had no mana supply. True Siegfried's stats outclass her, his lore outclasses her, and he does triple damage to those of Dragon Blood, which Mordred inherited from Artoria. I love Mordred, but Siegfried is the guy on par with Karna, and this guy can only be hit by A rank attacks and higher which are subtracted by B rank, making even A rank attacks no better than E's, making the like's of Karna's spear only able to make small scratches on his body and same vice versa due to Karna's similar invulnerable ability. They kicked off Siegfried early because he's broken as all fuck lol
why you put Gundam pray in here lol anyway if you want true servant battle i recommend just play game or wait for new series or movies come out next years
NoxTheRegicide no this is incorrect according to his stats his swordplay is much worse than Mordred and not only that she is much faster than him, I mean sure he can kill her with Balmug but Clarent is strong enough to counter, Mordred is much like her mother who is incredibly strong as a saber just with higher defense stats and a weaker noble phantasim, Seigfried not being a knight or in a position to know many good sword techniques is vastly outclassed in direct combat with any knight servant, his only advantage is his strength being much higher but if it was a serious duel and Mordred wasnt weakened by blasted tree she would crush Seig
This fight was Sieg vs Mordred, a pseudo Servant who is drastically weaker than Siegfried himself, Sieg stated such himself during his battle against Karna. And what are you talking about? Siegfried's swordsmanship is one stated to have 'Surpassed Mankind' and 'Able to match a thousand.' Mordred's feats in both Fate and actual Legend do not even touch Siegfried's. Mordred was not weakened, she was healed up and even bolstered by a command seal because her attacks couldn't breach this Sieg's 'Armor of Fafnir' noble Phantasm, something she herself states. Siegfried stomps Mordred any fight when on even terms. Mordred BARELY matched this shadow of the real Siegfried while being bolstered past her normal capabilities. Don't pay such close attention to strict stats anyway, Artoria outclassed Sasaki Kojirou in almost all stats, and she was outclassed by his sheer skill and couldn't even touch him. Skill being something Siegfried's legendary sword style that transcends humanity, being FAR greater than Mordred. She can't hurt him due to his Armor of Fafnir, he does almost triple damage against her since she has Dragon Blood and he has the Dragon Slayer trait, and he outclasses her in skill. So.... no buddy. Your waifu doesn't stand a chance, nor could she take on Karna.
how he died is prettty stupid just go to his back and his death flag raise higher than any servants
wait, with his Armor of Fafnir, dos that mean he is able to be immune to lancer of blacks spikes from out and within his body
about damn time
+Phantom117 B Lol
forgot mension, balmung has true ether in gem for the age of god so he han harm aquiles and the lost of his magic core heart for been a saber
I know this is late but what do you mean?
@@NewMe9013 balmung has a piece of true aeter a sustance from the age of gods so i was asking if that can harm him, becouse sigfried lost some really good skill for saber class and i dont know how he activate his NP
Sorry to ask, but were you salty about Karma fight when you did this video? Because it kinda seems like it and you also overlooked a few points, which is not usual for your videos.
I really missed two obvious parallels which strike me as too glaring to not be mentioned.
The first is How Balmung and Excalibur stories have some resemblance.
Another Balmung origin, not mentioned in the video, say Odin himself stuck it in a tree from which every man tries to pull it, but fails. That is until Sigmung, Siegfried's father is able to pull it.
It was still named Gram at this time, until it broke and was reforged into Balmung. This break/reforging could also explain the 2 sword in 1 theory.
This is incredibly similar to Excalibur's origin, as not only it had the test of taking it out the stone/tree, but the sword from the stone also was broke and Arthur had to seek the Lady of the lake to get a new one.
The second parallel in my mind is to a different character, Archer Emiya.
I think Siegfried addition and how his story was interpreted was a shout out to the Hero dilemma which is a recurring theme in the series. Both of them lived long heroic lives, but found no fulfillness in it. This lead Siegfried to allow his original murder and then kill himself again in Apocrypha without any hesitation. While archer doesn't try suicide as normally as Siegfried, he goes back in time to kill himself, which sounds suicidal enough for me.
The first thing you brought up is from sigurd's tale
Might be a translation error or one of the cases where you interchanged versions, but the cowl, cape whatever actually allowed siegfried to disguise himself. he disguised himself as the king and then beat brunhilde into submission. as you said, there are also versions of the invisibility cloak, but in those he just steals her rings and belt, wich give her her abnormal streingh. either way, dick moove siegfried. Also hagen did not act for the honor of his king, but becasue he wanted to marry krimhilde originally.
shame that he couldnt show his full potential during his awesome battle with the Son of the Sun God
There's a movie called nibelung( I think) that adapts the story really well.
Siegfried is the dragon he slays. Because of the one weakness he has, it allowed him to remain human instead of a evil ferocious dragon and allowed him to be human enough to die to human affairs, his one weakness is what makes both a person and a hero
Das Rheingold, an ability to summon massive amounts of gold. Still fail to see why it is supposed to be useless.
Granted is can last a generation just by sheer quantity. But not really worth if your family gets curse, and that also why the einzber hot curse to.
I actually think the treasure skill would've been useful cause we don't know fully what he got from it
For all we know it could be prototype of excalibur
Feels like you had some negative bias towards this one. I say this because 1: Your research isnt as good when compared to your previous episodes. 2: You leave out the various mentions of his great skill as a swords man which meant knowing his weakness does not translate into and easy win as he was never bested in combat(the dude killed giants, armies and a dragon before getting magic powers, i mean come on). Also, it would seem the Siegfried in this has blurry lines with his relation to Sigurd(who will be revealed in FGO later) in that they are both the same character due to their relation with fafnir, but are not due to the fact that they wield different weapons(which are conceptually the same) Gram and Balmung. I would say their relationship in fate is similar to that of Artoria and Arthur Prototype.
Ikr? This guy literally no sells any shity B rank attacks or noble phantasm. And people still think artoria is stronger.
@@vartner8051 because 1 he is not a waifu and 2 not the protagonist
no there relationship is different for Arthur and artoria sigurd and Siegfried are the same person and are accepted as the same person even having their names being used interchangeably in myth if apocrypha held to the rules their would be no sigurd and siegfried only sigurd
Would've been awesome to see kriemhild in fate apocryha but oh well I did wish he would stick around for few episodes or more
Don't worry she's in F/GO
I looked into it after this video, but Hagen was actually Siegfried's best friend and they planned his death together. And then afterwards Kriemhield spending 20 years trying to kill her brother and hagen.
I know I al quite late to the comment section, but an interesting fact about the Niebelungenlied is that in german, the original language, lied translates to song but also suffering
The Volsung Saga is an earlier version of the Niebelung Saga, I believe. The Volsung Saga was actually focused on by Tolkien, and I've read a translation by him. Very very interesting.
Would have preferred if they merged Wagner's Siegfried and Nibelungen Siegfried to create this Demi-god knight similar to sigurd but with. Few changes with the tales merging
9:55. I blame an insane greed to make the Yggdmillennia name infamous as Vlad's downfall, which obviously is due to no fault of his own.
Your comment at the end made me realize something. The servants of black were really underwhelming other than vlad and chiron (maybe astolfo?). Red had mordred, karna, achilles... basically everyone except Shakespeare. Black would have lost in hours if it was strictly two sides against each other.
embraceyourinner tophat Ok I'll agree with you there
Achilles alone would probably have won the war for Red if Black didn't have Chiron, since Chiron was their only Servant with high enough Divinity to hurt Achilles.
Achilles are Karna alone could arguably solo the black faction lol.
That doesn't even cut it. If vlad was Summoned in one of his 2 original class of lancer red vlad or berserker vlad and not the Romania ver of him, siegfried is the most strongest they had and the best chance for them to survive. The only reason chiron was able to be the only one to fight achilles is because he had divinity. Imagine of instead of siegfried, sigurd the king of warriors was Summoned. Mind you, sigurd is a demi God which means he has divinity and his sword gram was said to be the equal of excalibur.
This was really like "humans vs gods" and sadly its an unfair situation.
Nibelungenlied means the story of the Nibelung kings which plot is on the Land of Burgundy reign by a queen, Brunhild with his king, Gunther ...the hero of this story is Siegfried and the heroine is Kriemhild. Siegfried has also weakness like Achilles, Achilles is immortal and cannot be dead by anyone though there's a thing that her mother forget to anoint, which was is his heel and that ended him killed by Hector in the story of Iliad. Siegfried's weakness spot was his shoulder. Killed by a traitor, Kriemhild said the where the weakness spot is located. That killed Siegfried in the lake where his gonna drink some water to quench his thirst.
Sorry if it's wrong grammar 😅
I'm not shore If you have read the book but the reson she put the mark on his back is becos she thort he was going into combat and Hagen sead it was so he cod keep him safe
they should make an anime on Siegfried would be so good!
He is awesome good I love using him in fgo.
Finally Sumanai-san
Siegfried : "I wanted to be a Hero Of Justice"
Me : "No, Siegfried your already a true Hero Of Justice."
I think you told part of Sigurd's lore actually lol. But it may be just an impression of mine idk
now we can see kreimhild in anime version
The best saber
In my opinion at least
Fun fact Balmug becomes an EX rank noble phantasim when used against dragons and is highly effective against them
Actually it EX when Siegfried using at it full power not just Dragon
It seems like in a normal grail war getting a blank check would be incredibly useful
Yeah, for a normal grail war Siegfried is definitely the most useful Saber
@@GBlockbreaker why please explain to me i am a idiot
@@DeckerJimenez7014 well, imagine Apoc but nobody has enough mana to use their noble phantasms, kinda like how Stay Night was
Siegfried has massive base stats and a powerful defensive, passive noble phantasm that barely takes any mana, imagine him in Stay Night and you can probably see how he'd demolish most servants even with somebody as terrible as Shirou as his master
@@GBlockbreaker he sounds powerful like he should but in fgo I think he is the weakest 4 saber
@@DeckerJimenez7014 FGO is the furthest from lore strength you can get, star ratings also aren't based on power but on how much money the character can make them
1:59 Wait, that card actually exist? In my 4 years of playing YGO I've never seen that card in my life
Siegfried. AKA the one extremely powerful servant that is for some reason horrible in FGO.
You make amazing videos 👌🏻
but i still don't get how is sieg able to become siegfried, uhm, could somebody explain?
Would be interesting to see a comparison of Devilman Crybaby Anime vs Manga
After finishing all the Fate/Apocrypha servants, please please do all the servants of Fate/Grand Order.
Is there anyway you could make an updated ruler video?? She had alot more action in the second half 😀
+Emily Darley I wouldnt mind, but I gotta make an updated rider video first haha
A norse knight sounds funny to me. Also Siegurd is in the history show Vikings
he and chiron are missing in your apocrypha playlist
Fate portrays something wrong: the sword of Siegfried: Balmung. In the real song of the Nibelungen, the sword is called "Gram", whereas the sword of Sigurd (the norse hero from the Völsung saga) is called Balmung. Nasuverse mixed them up.
Actually you mixed them up Gram is norse, Siegfried's sword is balmung or notung
no, balmung is Gram
@@3espadaneliel gram is sigurd's sword
@@NewMe9013 their both the same sword as sigurd and siegfried are the same guy
I'm sorry I still haven't watched this fate series yet but he literally is Archer Shiro. That's sad
voiced by the same VA too
There is a version of the story where he gets back up after being stabbed and starts beating the shit out of everyone there for a while 😂
Could someone please tell me where his weakpot is? I interested in this anime but haven't started it yet
dragon dance it’s in his back lol like between his shoulder blades I think
Thx
Man, that leaf tho
The lesson? Don't go hunting with your friends. It doesn't go well way too much.
I actually like the one where Siegfried died for his romance with Brynhildr the Valkyrie - it is more melodramatic and traject... and getting a Valkyrie to fall in love with you is G.
Tim Cheong this is late af but he wasn’t the one who did that lol it was Sigurd
@@israelpadilla8126 their the same person it's just that the writer for apocrypha decided to separate them and nerf Siegfried to hell
Siegfried is just too nice.....
How did he slay a invulnerable dragon?
There are 2 people with immortality except for one spot and one that is practically immortality
Wait where is his invisible cloak? Is it das something something that we dont see in the show? I hope so
@bipzi sorry dude i can barely read anything you said cuz i am doing some fgo preparing for the guda guda 3 cuz i need to finish salomon
Also thanks that clears up the fact that siegfried and sigurd are different cuz i was congused
@bipzi i just wish he was not limited summon in fgo...
Also i dont like the glasses
makes him look like a geek nerd dude
Also how did this suddenly go from " where is Siegfried's invis cloak" to "Sigurd and Siegfried are vastly different"? Still thanks tho
@bipzi i can tell you later but right now i am doing a node wait just a minute
Hi you think that you can do Achilles next?
I mean Siegfried could’ve just went to go kill another dragon to fix his weak spot
I don't think there were that many dragons around
Blocked true that
Having 2 fafnir is horrifying, especially since dragons are the strongest phantasmals there's is, and fafnir is also a exception, being an evil dragon he's stronger than regular adult dragons.
Didn’t mention that his parents were siblings
Shame.
Sweet HOME ALABAMA
Wait...what?😳
*Oh, on, on god?*
That is sigurd's tale
@@NewMe9013 Siegfried's parents are siblings. Siegmund and Sieglinde.
After you finish all the fate/apocrypha stuff do some grand order servants, please?
I think Siegfried is from Germany not from the Netherlands. I am pretty sure it's a German legend.
In real life yeah he's from Germany, but in Apocrypha he says he's from the Netherlands so in Fate it's Netherlands.
@@CallMeNoa that's only in the anime adaptation, in FGO and i think in the novels as well it says he's from Germany which is kinda obvious considering he has a German name made up of German words that don't even exist in dutch
These heroic heroes :U
They are shady ppl
yo if you are reading this comment I'm on some real right now shit right now thank you for doing videos like this man i love your channel im showing all my friends and telling them to subscribe immediately IMMEDIATELY
+420 Savage Thanks mr. savage. I appreciate it.
Isn't brynhilder a Valkyrie summoned by oden or something? How did she become an Icelandic queen?
Not the same legend, the valkyrie is from the Volsunga saga, and the queen is from the songs of the Nibelungs
Marunui and this one is the queen?
yup! in Siegfried's legend Brynhildr (Brunhild, Brynhild...depends on the version) is the queen but in his video he mistook (the image he chose at 3:56) Brynhildr the valkyrie and Brynhildr the queen.Those are different characters just like Siegfried and Sigurd are distinctive heroic spirits in the Nasuverse.
@@marunui7900 not their the same even in the volsunga saga where sigurd meets brynhildr for a second time and shes a princess or a queen fate apocrypha writer screwed up the mythos
The story I heard Sigurd was the slayer of fafnir not siegfried
Next time how ever kill a dragon make sure you have no leaf on your back
0:27
Siegfried or I
One of us doesn't know where a humans fucking heart is
I feel like Sieg gets way too much of a bad rep sometimes. Does he have tons of plot armor? Yes, but that's not really anything new for Fate protagonists *Glances at Shirou Emita.** Plus, I found his story arc of wanting to become human and make something of his life rather than die as cannon fodder more engaging than "I want to be a hero because my dad wanted to be one." It just sucks that two Heroic Spirits had to die just to make Sieg useful to the story.
I'll give that he can be a bit bland at times, but... He's a homunculus made for the sole purpose of being a magic battery and cannon fodder. Kinda figures he'd have no personality to speak of at first. Him developing emotions could be considered part of his story arc; granted, I'll admit that it's not handled as gracefully as it could have been, but you at least see him display a degree of emotion in the last few episodes.
Gold Wade I won't defend Gil vs Shirou but Shirou any other time was in his range of ability. And besides at least he has a character.
Shirou does, admittedly, have more character than Sieg. I'll give you that. However you can't deny that he also stumbles into a LOT of plot conveniences... Such as running into a shack with a summoning circle his dad left him and summoning Artoria by COMPLETE accident because he happens to have Avalon inside him? Or being so innately skilled with magic that, despite the lack of proper training, his Projection magic can make copies of even legendary weapons and manifests into a Reality Marble?
Gold Wade Not running more like being pushed into the shack. It wasn't left for him -wasn't even a summoning circle just a magic circle- . To be honest summoning a servant by accident is more common in fate than you'd think. A guy summons a berserker just by doing nothing and holding a knife. No magic circle just stand there. -Granted that grail war was fucked-
Anyway you calling bs about him summoning artoria and having ubw is the equivalent to me calling bs to Siegfried giving away his heart to Sieg magically healing him and then being able to turn into Siegfried. Gotta get the story going some how. A little bs to push the plot forward. Anything after that though is fair game.
Precisely. I'm not trying to say Sieg is an AMAZING protagonist or that he's necessarily better than Shirou, just that he's not the first Fate protagonist with plot armor who gains BS abilities. Sieg has his flaws, I just feel sometimes like the fandom exaggerates those flaws a bit. He's not the best character but he's not the worst, either.