Ham Stick V Wolf River Coils | Is There A Difference??
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2023
- Which Antenna Is Better? Ham Stick Or Wolf River Coils? Let's Find Out.
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#hamradio #wolfrivercoils #HamStick #k8mrd - Наука та технологія
Good video. I usually work with both the WRC and Hamsticks myself, particularly on 20 meters. Good info to know. The advantage of course is the WRC is multiband which comes in handy during POTA operations.
I own and use multiple hamsticks, so I'm not bashing them here. You gave the hamsticks the best possible comparison by using the smaller whip on the WRC. I'd love to see you do this again with a couple of different whips on the WRC and then come back and compare them not just to each other, but also the hamsticks. I would expect clear improvements correlated to the length of whip.
My current portable vertical of choice is the Chameleon 17' whip straight on the WRC longer tripod because it's just a straight up quarter wave that you can shorten for higher bands.
Good video Mike.
That’s what I use on 20m when I can. I wish he had included that as the “baseline” vertical, no loading coil.
Good work, Mike. Thanks for doing tests like this. I've use both from a mag mount on my car and they've done well. I've always subscribed to the conventional wisdom that the more metal in the air the better, but at the end of the day, they're loaded verticals. Both have their benefits for portable use and I think there's justification for hams who do a lot of POTA and mobile ops to have the WRC plus a few ham sticks.
Thanks for all you do, mike! Cheers and 73!
Great presentation. I'd love to see this expanded to the better Wolf River configurations. My last ditch POTA setup is a Shark Ham Stick on a home brew trailer hitch mount when there's no foot print to set up a "real" antenna. So far, I haven't seen a demo by anyone that makes me want to spend my money.
Although I don't get the opportunity to get out much to do some radio activities, I've spent the time to come up with a collection of portable HF antenna options. Everything from the WRC to 20m Hamsticks - not to mention mounting options such as ground stakes, WRC Tripod and also a camera Tripod all of which fits in a canvas bag for easy deployment.
I've always heard that the best antenna is the one you are using at that moment. Thanks Mike!
Good job Mike! I primarily use the 'Wolf River Coil 1000' or 'MFJ Hamsticks' for all my portable and mobile operations. So, this experiment was especially interesting to me. Looks like you can't really go wrong with either one. The Hamsticks are probably less hassle because I use the 'Shark Quick Disconnects' for fast Hamstick/band change. Keep the excellent videos coming...73 OM!
Just my humble opinion. The BEST antenna is the one that is up in the air that you're using right now.... Thnaks for the content - keep it coming
Great Video! I would have loved to have seen your results on a map. Thought for next time:)
Nice vid, Mike. I've often wondered the same thing, re performance comparison. I'm a WRC guy [SB Mini, SB Platinum, and brand new Sporty Forty]....but have often wondered about adding a hamstick or 2 to the stable for quick grab & go POTA. Thanks! 73, Tim
Nice comparison, thanks!
Nice test. Maybe do the same test with the shortest and longest configuration of the WRC
Mike, Very good video and objective test. Unlike many Hams who frequent UA-cam, you are an asset to Amateur Radio. 73, Al K3ZE
Another terrific video Joshua perfect thanks 73
You're welcome Steve!
Great test!
Thanks for the video. I’ve heard you reference that laptop. But I’m searching I can’t find a link or video about what laptop it is. I don’t have a laptop and as progress to General glass. I would like to get one to keep all my hf and other radio information on. Thanks again for all the great contact. It really helps a noob such as myself out.
Hi Mike, Did I understand that right that you did not optimize the SWR of the WRC to the best of in order to have comparable antennas? So one antenna is at its best and the other one not???
Also what is your argument for selecting the shorter whip on the WRC? can you imagine taking the Stick to a summit? do they have a similar use case in this configuration?
Thanks for your explanations. Great videos youŕe producing. thks for the effort you put in that...
Martial / DO1MBC
Interesting, when and if you get time, I would like to see the same experiment on 40 meters, please.
Mike always enjoy your videos. Be interesting to see the Wolf River coil versus a ham stick on a ground plane.
I have tried that on 20m, I could not get the Hamstick to work, acceptable SWR, when I put it in the WRC tripod mount with 5 ground radials. Weird.
Thanks Mike!
Cool stuff Mike, you da man.
Thanks buddy!
Hav both, Luv both! Miss you Mike at Quartzfest.
Would be cool to see a side by side on SSB phone. Great video .. I'm still a WRC fan boy.
Interesting comparison. I have both.
I have both antennas and I like the Wolf River Coil a lot more. The Hamsticks are very narrow banded and I do not seem to have that problem with the Wolf River coil but I also use the 17 ft whip on the Wolf River Coil. I would love to see the test done with the Hamstick, a stock Wolf River Coil and then a test with the 17 ft whip. I bet that would be interesting.
Well, to me it would either…I have two Wolf River coils and they work great in my back deck (HOA) on 10m (sorry still a Tech) with the built in tuner on the FT-710. I like that you can use different whips…in my case I’m using the Buddipole. Great comparison Mike…thanks for sharing…Cheers, Alex K9YTT
Nice review.
Great video and timely. I just bought an ICOM -7300 and have been looking at various antenna options for limited space applications, such as a balcony or deck. Lucky for me you're an antenna Junkie, so I get to see a variety of avenues to help me make my decisions. 73 de KN6VMK
Hi Mike, I have played with my coils(homemade) the short coil and longer pieces of wire ,1m,1+2,1+3, 1+5,1+6m up to 13m wires shortcoil and 13m nice on 80m it works for me,Thank,
Pieter
Great job Mike. How did you capture the heard data?
www.wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/spotquery Put your callsign under REPORTER to see who you are hearing. Put it under Call and you will see everyone who hears you. Just don't use both at the same time if you want to keep them separate.
I’d like to see you add 1 more comparison, just using a 17’ whip such as the SS17. This eliminates all coils.
I guess I would have liked to see the results with the WRC tuned for minimum SWR. Because that's the way that I would use it. The ham stick was, obviously, how I would use it. It's good to also have the number as you got them, since (probably) it means that the power down the coax was closer to the same. But still.
Nice test.
you know.. would be interesting experiment to put a WRC and also something like a 10m or even a 20m hamstick on the top of that as the whip.
Can you take out the contacts that didn't hear you on both antennas and recalculate the average? This would give a different look at the signal reports. Should be fairly easy to do in a spreadsheet. Do you have this data shared anywhere?
Gave you the “like” 5 seconds into the intro b/c it’s just interesting. Keep up the good work, friend! - 73, Chris de AC3Q
Nicely done Mike! I also liked how you danced that tight rope Sir! 73 - KF6IF
It would be an interesting test to see if a longer whip does anything for TX. I would suspect it might receive slightly better. However, vertical antenna the current radiates near the bottom and decreases in radiation the further up the mast you go until the top there is no current and only voltage. Yes, I would be interested in seeing a test.
Great experiment. I pretty much figured there would be little difference between the two, but it was interesting never the less. I only have one ham stick (20 meters). It's the more expensive Diamond stick with the coil in the middle. Does it perform $50.00 better ? Most likely not, but it is sexy (maybe a little more bandwidth and hard to measure signal increase). I'm 100% going to buy more ham sticks. I have all kinds of portable antennas, but only the one ham stick type. Question for people....I usually attach a clamp with 6 radials to the base of the mag mount with the ham stick. I have a full size SUV, with the antenna mounted in the middle of the roof. It offers a great ground plane. I've seen little difference in SWR with the radials vs. no radials. I wonder how much it increases performance if any with my set up. The range and signal strength has been impressive for this type of antenna. I have used the radials set out in one direction to attempt to make it more directional. From what I've seen, it does appear to work to a small degree. Radials might work better with a smaller vehicle or one with the antenna mounted to the side of the vehicle. Anybody else have experience using radials with a vehicle mounted ham stick ? I need to experiment more when it's not 15 degrees outside with a butt load of snow on the ground. I always want that extra half "S" unit....lol. Thanks Mike, still killing it !
For 20m and up you won't need any radials when using a (decent sized) magmount.
The capacitive coupling is usually good enough.
Even if you want to operate on 40 or 80m I'd suggest to forget about radials but instead try to increase the surface of the capacitive coupling to your car roof.
This is very easy to achieve especially if you have a mag mount with a PL socket.
Just slip a ring terminal with a short piece of wire soldered to over the socket then screw on the adapter for the 3/8 ham stick.
Remove a fair bit of the isolation of other end of the wire and tape it to some aluminum foil or faraday cloth.
Check for continuity!
Then you place the foil or cloth onto your car roof and you got a massive capacitor. The foil/cloth is one plate the metal roof the other one.
The paint of your car is the dielectric.
This increases capacitive coupling and the efficiency big time, especially on the lower bands.
For a temporary fixation you can use some smaller magnets.
And there you have it, a no drill and cost effective method of bonding.
Have you tested your 8 foot radiials on 80 m?
I use the ham sticks if we are doing a short park visit, both ham sticks and WRC for a longer stay. I also run hamstick dipoles as well as single vertical antennas. The results haven't been spectacular, but they have been decent. 48 states and the world from NZ to Bulgaria. My results were pretty similar to yours. Keep sending them out Mike. KD4YXM
The 20 meter Hamstik is closer to a center loaded antenna than the WRC and center loading is slightly more efficient than base loading. I have to wonder if a short section of mast, 12 to 18 inches, was put under the loading coil on the WRC would have made any measurable difference.
Nice one
What would it take to transmit on 80mtrs with the SOTA special?
The Wolf River coil uses stainless steel wire which has about 20 times the resistivity of copper. The added resistive loss could be responsible for the lower antenna gain...W6QR
I'd be curious what's inside a ham stick. I would doubt it's high quality copper but who knows?
@@hamradiotube The diameter of the coil is very small, I think soft copper would be best....but who knows? If I ever destroy one of mine I'll take it apart 🙂
Nice job in putting this comparison together, Mike. I think it shows that the choice between the two antennas is one of personal preference more so than any glaring difference in performance. 73, KO4AZY
I understand you wanted to keep everything as "equal" as possible; however, I also agree that you really need to re-test using a 'standard' whip. I only say this because how many people actually use the short whip in comparison to the 102" (much less the 17 footers). So, it would be much more accurate to compare what is actually used in the field vs handicapping the WRC to get it close to the Hamstick. If you rally wanna get froggy, compare a 40M Hamstick vs 102" WRC vs 17' WRC...that would be interesting to see the results of, as they would all would still be loaded but at varying degrees. Good video, regardless....keep up the great work.
This is actually a version they sell. The call it the SOTA special. I'll prob end up putting a longer whip on it and showing the real power of the WRC one of these days. I'm curious what the results will be. I don't have a 40 meter ham stick so I can't compare the two and I really don't feel like buying one just for the test as I will most likely never use it again.
@@hamradiotube don't get me wrong, familiar with the SOTA Special variation myself. When I picked my WRC coil up, I did it piecemeal like, as I didn't need a kit outright.... So, I got the SB Mini coil and a tripod mount individually. I also picked up a 78" whip as a cheap/budget option to at least play with the coil while I awaiting the delivery of my 5.6m "AliExpress Special" that was the intended whip for the coil. I saw a significant difference of performance between the two, but it was in no way scientific... Just observed. Point is, while the short whip and SB Mini are offered as a kit, I would foresee many more TIA kits being out there in comparison... I look at it like a car... Sure there are base models offered, but what does the majority of the 'non-company' buying public purchase. 73 de KC5VAZ
Robust?? I would definitely, owning both, say that the hamstick is more robust. The Wolf River setup is definitely more fragile. I would have liked to know the band width difference, within SWR. I haven't checked this yet, but I have compared the bandwidth difference between the Hamstick and the Hustler mobile antennas, and whereas the Hustler has a lower swr, their bandwidths are less than the Hamsticks. And did you specifically turn your hamstick to the utilized frequency? Thx for the vid.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 73 Bret C/AC0AE
Mike, I am new to your channel, and have watched many of your videos. This comparison has kind of a let down. I use both a Wolf River Coil and Ham Sticks. I think you should have weighed the two. I love my WRC TIA but if I have to carry it, I'll take a 20m and 40m Ham Sticks. There is no good commercially made solution to carry a Wolf River Coil. It needs a rollup carrier (in my opinion). I can attach two Ham Sticks to the side of my Portable Zero 817 Sherpa, pack the FT 818, and I am off to woods. Ease of deployment goes to the Ham Sticks too. I have a clamp that I can put on a picnic table or fence post. Then I attach my feed line and I am on the air. It takes me about twenty minutes to deploy my coil. I do make more contacts on my WRC than on my Ham Sticks. If propagation is good they are both fun but if propagation is poor, I find my coil can still get me contacts. That, for me is were the fun is. It is not fun to call CQ and get crickets. Please, take these antennas out to a park. Show the deployments and make contacts. I think that is were most of us will make our decision. 73 KE0OAP
How dare you not use "my much better" way, LOL. Remember, you are "competing" with arm chair experts!!! Wait until Baofeng makes a 20 meter HT, I want to see THAT antenna. The budget and available space may push the individual ham one way or the other. Keep up the great work.
Nice...
Radials? Did you use any? Or just the car?
Don’t need any on a car.
Interesting video. Perhaps the fact that the WRC is completely base loaded results in poorer performance compared to a hamstick which has a much longer inductive length from the feedpoint, causing the high current point to be higher off the ground. A set of hamsticks might actually be a better choice compared to a WRC or other variable base loaded vertical.
I run hamsticks on the truck for 10 and 12. They just work. No fuss, no bother. The 10m stick I use the most is safely useable from CB channel 19 all the way to 29.7 (though it starts to climb pretty steeply once you leave 28Mhz), and is less than 1.1:1 @28.40. It would be interesting for comparison to see how the longer wrc whip would perform under the same conditions and what that would do to the numbers.
KC3UVF
You put the WRC on a car. You did not use its base and ground wires. By not using these, could this have an effect on the WRC
A very good one, yes. A car makes a great ground plane. The same effect is done to the Ham Stick too.
Yup. You just proved that base loaded whips are less efficient. Here is why. Coils do not radiate. The base (current portion) of the antenna is what radiates. The tip (voltage portion) is there mostly for tuning. With the hamstick, the coil is up the antenna, with a significant base portion below it. Not much, but the results prove the point. This is why the Hustler HF mobile antennas were the best. Now, try THIS. Add a 5 foot base rod and put that adjustable coil on top of that, with a whip length so that the total is less than 1/4 wave in height (you cannot coil load a greater than resonant length antenna). You will have the best of both worlds. Looking forward to seeing you try that, and the results. Jerry wa2omu
buy all the antennas.
OK, I gotta ask: What about comparing TX/RX for only the stations that were worked using both antennas? That would remove all the "monkey math" required to imagine whether working more distant stations was responsible for the lower S/N ratios, and should produce a pretty clear winner, even if only by a few tenths of a dB.
Sounds like a whip test is coming....
I use my WRC 17' whip with no coil for 20 and higher. Resonance. I wonder how MUCH of a difference that makes. We all know it should.
Well dang he is actually saying the same thing now as I watch. :)
Ham sticks put out more power. Coils dump power right from the coil. We know adding a cap hat prevents some loss I wonder if a covered coil would force more power up and out of the antenna rather than losing it directly from the sides of the coil.
Correction, the HIGHER the signal to noise ratio numerical value the better. Great comparison otherwise.
Good old hamsticks 👍
Outstanding video. Great presentation.
Bill KZ3DX
To this old ham the antenna radiating elements are the same. The coils are just matching units.
So, has anyone put an 80m ham stick on a Wolf River Coil to get 160m?
I put a WRC on a WRC to get 160
🤯
20m hamstick vs 17' whip
Monoband antennas will always out perform multiband.
Ham sticks! FTW!!!! 73!!!
You can lose over 90% of your power out of your coil unless you use a capacity cap on top of the whip to create a field to draw the power up and out of the antenna. You will still be losing more with a coil and cap than a ham stick. Use websdr to hear stations you can't hear with both antennas. Or a separate beverage antenna. I talk to ppl I can't hear on my antenna all the time using websdr online. If your using a stick or whip use the longest one possible.
Thank you sir! 73 de Lz1mak
For me, the real point is not which is better in some absolute sense, but rather that any ham can go out and test what works best for them in their operating conditions. This is the true spirit of ham radio, experiment! DE WA1KLI
Awesome video Mike as always…
..and most of all,
a GREAT PERSONALITY
73 Thank You!
de KK6SEI