Take care in removing bushings. I managed to put a crack in my headplate removing one. Buy or create a purpose-built tool that will push out the busing while supporting the area of the headplate surrounding the bushing.
That dewalt screwdriver is freaking solid. I bought mine a few years ago. It is awesome for light touches and would be awesome for an electrician installing a ton of faceplates on outlets, etc. Once you get a feel for it's gyroscopic activation, it is the fizz indeed. Great video from Florida!
its $119........a Ryobi is $24.......I've been using mine for string changes for 4 or 5 years.....and everything else that doesn't take a more powerful drill....its solid too
Great video guys, liking the DeWalt 👍 Some useful tips, for making a dowel look up dowel making jig/plate plenty of easy little jigs videos. For fitting slotted screws first wind in a same size pozi/Phillips screw, take out then fit slotted screw with candle wax. For you guys over the pond check out Izzy swan's video on drill bits, he had some awesome drill bits on there but seemed they're only available in USA. For drilling square use the drill press to drill a hole in a scrap piece and then use as drilling guide, if no drill press use a scrap piece of wood with square cut end, mark 2lines on the end the size of drill , when drilling keep drill bit against end and between lines
Philips head screws were originally designed that way so they would strip out before they were over torqued and the head breaking off. Flat head screws are a little more difficult to use, but they were not designed to fail. Waverly most likely uses them for the classic look just like the rest of that tuner.
These "lawsuit" Takamines have been gaining popularity lately, 1:05 doesn't surprise me he loves this thing. From my understanding, Martin set up factories and supply chains in Japan to make them for an international market, but plans fell through. Long story short, Takamine is selling guitars with Martin specs and stops when they get a cease and desist letter (not taken to court, which many people believe). "Hotel California" was recorded on one of these lawsuit 12 Strings, and I wouldn't say these are bad guitars by any means. Still, they're a modder's dream bones because dollar per dollar you can find good deals if you look hard enough. You have the EF360S. The S means that it has a solid top, not a laminated top, so if anyone finds one, that's something to look for. For reference, I played a lot of guitars, but nothing--with the exception of Luthier custom builds--really plays like Martins, but these are definitely close if you know how to fix them up. I'll take one any day over their X series, or Road series tbh Awesome video fellas, really gave that Takamine a 2nd life!
I bought my first nicer new guitar (a Martin 000-15M) about 2 years ago. I wanted to install a K&K Pure Mini in it, but didn't want to take it to a luthier or a tech, because a) I'm impatient, b) I'm cheap, and c) I have tools and UA-cam. After watching several "How To Install..." videos, I nervously drilled a ½" hole into my brand new $1400 guitar. Everything worked out just fine, and although I'm not quite ready to tackle a neck reset or a re-fret, I'll take on most any guitar work. I've changed nuts on a couple of guitars, sanded and replaced a saddle, and I've been doing my own setups for a few years. It's not that hard to do a little guitar work. Kind of blows my mind that some people won't even try to change their own guitar strings.
Absolutely brilliant!!! I found out the hard way that not all repairs are done well. I had to learn how to do most of things myself and now do all of my own repairs, modifications and maintenance with confidence. Just takes practice and a little self-confidence! thanks very much! from Lancashire, rainy Great Britain. Best Wishes, John F
Fun Fact... StewMac owns the Waverly brand, which is why they give them so much space in their catalog. Most Waverly butterbeans don't have a knob tension adjustment, but Grover butterbeans do at the end of the worm gear shaft. The Schertler tuners StewMac sells are some of the finest tuners I've ever used, but they don't have a traditional look, especially the oval gear plate. Even so, I put them on my Martin dread. Couldn't be happier.
I ((paid someone to 😁)) swap out my really unsatisfying tuners on my Fender Sonoran, which is one of these guitars that just seems to be better than it should be in the first place. We used Fender locking tuners. This video would’ve helped that guy! But an associate in a different store helped him think it through and come up with basically this method demonstrated here. That one change made this Fender acoustic 70% better. I am gonna try the bridge pin trick you fellas talked about, too!
i bought a 2nd had Alhambra from 1990 which had the same tuning machines on, a decent new pair made such a difference to the guitar..... new nut is next on the cards
Thumbnail you were showing Kluson inline tuner and thought this was going to be a video on somehow working on the tuners themselves like working on the gears inside. Cool work though!
A real Martin of that vintage would have Grover tuners which are fine and the holes match up. And yes these are great guitars. In the days of partnership they were Martins for those of us who couldn't afford Martins. Mexican labor and the Road Series or whatever it was called back then are their replacement. Cheaper Martins with real Martin stickers.
The Grovers during that time were Rotomatics. One screw hole and a massive hole through the headstock for the tuner mounting hardware. Unless you replace them with modern Rotomatics you’re going to have to do some modification.
The guitar's head stock being clamped in a vice like that , supporting the entire guitar body in the air , did i see that right? That's literally putting caution in the wind as tat is usually where the neck breaks from the head but to each their own, luv the Waverly's thanks for the link.
I was wondering about that too before I reminded myself that the guitar wasn’t a Gibson.😀 Seriously, I didn’t notice if the truss rod access was located on the headstock or not. That’s where Gibson puts it and is why their necks break so easily. Still…..
@@BobDorfman Gibson Les Paul has that problem, i wouldn't risk any guitar's head by clamping it in a vice, with its body in the air? please. And then drilling the head in that stressed position is asking for a crack with the vibration from the drill....
I agree with and shared your concern while watching he video. I kept thinking that the owner needed the guitar that night for a gig. A neck break would have been a disaster. I also kept thinking that the guy is a professional luthier and builds $20,000+ guitars, he must know what he’s doing. I’m glad everything turned out ok.
The term "Jobber" has to do with the length of the drill bit, not the tip style. Mechanic's bits are shorter, than jobber bits, twist drill bits are longer and aviation bits are really longer. I have the $800 USA made Copco full index + the #61-80 tiny drill bits, and both sets of Fisch brad point drills, and a bunch of Fisch, Pfel and other Swiss, Austrian, Swedish & German made Forstner bits, plus hole saws, hole cutters and draw plates. I use hypodermic needle tubing for cutting tiny plugs out of mahogany, maple, spruce, koa, bubinga, etc. to plug screw holes with out showing any end grain.
i'm heading on down to the local for grover mini's to replace the gigantic... things... that are on my bass, they work, but they're so easy to bump, my other guitars, good tuners, but they don't lock, so i'm gonna get to them.
Barring the difficulties on this Takamine, any luthier or tech that charges $100 to install a set of tuners is overcharging their customers, unless they have to "fill & drill" the screw holes, and even then, that's pricy. I try my best to find better tuners that won't require a lot of additional work, in some cases, even matching the screw holes. Other than that, I love your videos, and the quality of your work is outstanding!
I paid $100 to have mine filled, drilled and replaced (in MI) and it was worth every penny imho. Maybe the market’s lower where you’re at? Maybe it’s really just perceived value.
They probably send them with flathead screws in order for them to go in vintage guitars. Back before phillips head screws were used. However, as much as Waverly charges for their tuners, I think they can afford to send the customers both options. Lol. Just my thoughts on it.
I would be leary about drilling out the bushings in the headstock. If the drill bit dug into the metal bushing, it could spin the bushing in place, possibly ruining the headstock.
Harbor Freight power driver for 19 bucks, perfect for stringing guitars, also does the twisty thing. Totally love it. On a different note; I want his hair. NOT like I want it in a box. NOT like it would be a trophy. NOT creepy. (OK maybe a little creepy) Enjoy it while you are young my friend. I thought my thick hair would never leave me. At 60 I've been proven a fool. My wife has named my bald spot Jerry. She says things like, "good night jerry." Then kisses my head. (Life could be worse.) Don't ever cut it. Flaunt it while you have it!!!
Yes ! Just Bought A Guild " DS-240" New last Spring At A local Guitar shop and it has a real nice warm Tone. Bought the Tuners Are Horrible..... will check this out....... I've Been Shopping for several Months and still On the Fence what to get......
So, now that you have the tuning machines off, and the strings tossed. What else should be looked at and “fixed”? Doing a setuP, saddle work, nut work? Should a backer board be clamped to the back? Or because you are drilling end grain, the blowout is minimal if you apply light pressure? Soap works well if you don’t have bees wax.
Would 3/8” conversion bushings have made this a little easier? $17 usd. Are the takamine machine heads 3/8” or 10mm? Or 10.5mm cause in that case bushings won’t work? I just bought a take a mine lawsuit in mahogany. Love it!
So is there a disadvantage of just using the reamed bushings without plugging the remaining portion of the hole with wood and drilling to 1/4"? Is the space between the tuning shaft and wood a problem and is that why plugged it? On a side note, I bought a set of Waverleys years ago...the are definitely in a class of their own as far as open tuners go, and you are getting a premium tuner for the high price.
I feel braver now. LOL! Seriously though. Thanks! I have a cheap little Hohner guitar that I picked up for $30. I thought it could be a decent Parlor guitar if I changed the nut, tuners, and saddle.
Well timed! I was watching this while I was *attempting* to replace the stock tuners on my Squier Paranormal Cabronita baritone Tele with a set of staggered height Gotoh vintage tuners...and the hole was too small for the Gotoh bushings, and the Gotoh tuners are too large in diameter for the stock bushings. But, I'm going to try your tip of drilling out the stock bushings to work with the Gotohs! Question: Is it absolutely necessary to *also* plug the back side of the headstock's tuning peg holes in this case? Or would it be fine to just let the bushings take care of it? I've done the screw-hole-drill-out-and-plug-with-dowels trick for 2 of my basses that I had replaced the tuners (went from vintage-style 4 screws per tuner plate to tuners with just 1 screw), and replaced the stock tuners on a (n arguably excellent) budget semi-hollow 335-copy (which I bought used for $100!) with a set of locking, tulip tuning button tuners that were exact drop-ins.
I'm thinking about filling my headstock's tuner holes and drilling in new ones to fit 3 on plate tuners. The difference in spacing from the cylinders on the plate tuners to the separate ones is roughly 5mm, so the tuners will be smaller on the headstock(as far as spacing goes). How much does that matter? because I'm scared the intonation or something will get all jank, mind you I'm also replacing the nut and saddle with blanks, so I'm going to be readjusting the intonation from scratch. (all assuming I drill my new holes accurately and such) this is my first time doing this btw, im working on a fairly inexpensive guitar. I just need to know if my little project here doesn't end up meaningless because of some measurements I didn't take into account.
I'm actually just gonna use a reamer to smooth out the existing holes and put in machines that just drop in so the only thing I'll have to do is drill in mounting holes. I don't even know how to play guitar really yet and I'm tryna do the most for what? lol I am gonna make my own nut/saddle tho, idk why but understanding intonation and how the physics of the guitar have a part in it is fascinating to me. I'll try slotting the bridge as well.
So nearly $200 tuners & then you have to mod the guitar to get them to fit including plugging holes because the screws don't line up. I mean why not pay $30-40 dollars & fit locking tuners which would be even more beneficial on an acoustic where string changes happen more often than on electrics?
you don't need to do any of this if you're willing to use tunners using the metric system built for import guitars; there are many good brands out there.
To be fair they just sound like they are tight. You could of striped, cleaned and lubricated the existing tuning machines refitted and adjusted them for about 50cents. This was a lot of work for very little gain. You could of bought a set that fit the holes and been quicker easier and cheaper to do. You keep saying law suit but that just makes it only more of a waste of time and money.
OMG, I have never seen tuners that bad!! Even the homemade looking ones on the Soviet era mandolin I have operate smoother than that. With the tuning machine posts fit right to the old bushings, you probably don't even need to fill the hole in the back of the headstock. I've seen quite a few factory made guitars, even from big name manufacturers, that have a lot more slop than that in the holes.
Also, this video reminded me my father-in-law gave me a bunch of old machinist tools.... I have a box full of reamers like that buried in my shop somewhere.... 😁
Those original 40 year old tuning machines probably just needed some lubrification.... You make it look simple, but the amount of precision needed for properly installing new, different ones is actually quite high. Not for everybody.
Personally, I would take the guitar to a luthier, since he/she/they will have various tuning machines to pick from--rather than buy one myself and try to make it fit.
I bought one of those in 2007 for 50 bucks. A neighbor`s daughter wanted to learn guitar...and destroyed the guitar in a fight with her sister. I think they lied though and traded it for drugs.
I normally agree with 99.9% of what you say on your channel however.. "bad tuners are why my guitar won't stay in tune" is the biggest load of malarkey I've ever heard in my life! There's many reasons a guitar can't or won't stay in tune. The issue can be with the tuners but properly maintained they are not the problem nor is the amount of money that you spend on them going to make a difference in the way it stays InTune. You can get a better tuning ratio, giving you a finer adjustment to the tuning. But I dare anyone to be able to take a pair of vice grips clamp them on the tuning post where the string goes through and turn that and get the head to turn. you can't. it's impossible .you will break that tuner before you drive a worm gear in reverse so the problem is nobody taking slack out of their strings when they go back and forth back and forth back and forth trying to tune when they obviously don't need to be trying to tune cuz they can't, and or the screws in the tuner being loose you have one on the tuner head one in the back going through the gear. Or maybe just a little machine oil would make all of the difference but there is no such thing I don't care how cheap how old or how worn-out the tuners are as a bad tuner unless you're talkin about the neanderthal attempting to tune the instrument now that tuner can definitely be bad.... If it feels like you got crackers or oatmeal or sand or granola or whatever you said in your tuner you need to do more maintenance on your instruments or get a better luthier hell even a guitar tech apprentice. You make some beautiful instruments but your preface that the tuners are the issue if your guitar won't stay in tune is completely wrong.
I like your channel, but respectfully, that was a confusing video. The dowelings were unnecessary. In fact having a 1/4" hole right through means the new string posts may bind on the timber. And they'll have to be drilled out if you ever need to replace the bushings. Plus there's a good chance the old machineheads just need cleaning and lubricating. Either way, I'd strongly recommend using a small smear of grease on the string posts where they rub on the bushings, especially since you drilled them by hand. (You have a drill press, and if you couldn't mount the guitar there, then you could have at least drilled a guide block, or even just taken the bushings over to it mounted in a scrap timber block, in which case, you could have even used an end mill.) Also, the timber won't "blow out" with a twist drill, since you are parallel to the grain. And FWIW, 80's Japanese stuff is excellent quality. Look inside that guitar and compare the fitment of the bracings, kerfings, blocks etc to one made by Gibson in the 1980's...
My tuners are fine... but that "Mama's House" old lady haircut definitely does... 😂... jk.. lol ,.. love you Chris.. your channel is awesome.. please cut your hair.
There are only a handful of luthiers that I concider "Bob Ross of the guitar", You, Dan from StewMac, Ted Woodford... But for some reason only You've decided to go for a full steal his look kind of vibe.😂 Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it! Thanks for the video!
As always, nicely done gentlemen... The more I see of what you do, the more proud (prouder?) I am of my Driftwood guitars. Keep on keepin' on! Kindest regards, Karl
Great video. I’ll also call out that by using the original bushings you and not using the newer ones you don’t have to try to deal with the raccoon eyes that are there on the veneer from where the old bushings sat for decades. I dealt with this on a friends martin where I upgraded tuning machines and watched a few of Brian Kinsey’s videos…even he tells you that you can still see it when you sand and buff. Your solution avoids that headache. Nicely done!
I dud this on 3 guitars, their original Grover rotomatics are screwed so tight that nut dents are deep and you can't remove them completely without refinishing. Pain.
They sell oversized bushings for converting these guitars. I’ve used them to upgrade guitars from shoddy cast tuners to butterbean tuners. A lot less work and only costs maybe $9.
@driftwoodguitars , if you find interesting, please make a video comparing the effect a piezo element have on the acoustic sound of a guitar. In my opinion it "steals" vibration that would reach the guitar bridge and as a consequence, drags resonance as a whole. 🤩🤩🙌🏻🙏🏻
Trying to upgrade the Tuners on my Bass ( Sterling Stingray SS-4 Short Scale ) but they don't make Drop-in Upgrades. Your camera is phenomenal = so clear & detailed. Enjoyed this one alot. Fantastic job.
First off, congrats on the Sterling Short Scale Sting Ray - I had played one of those in a store, and was BLOWN AWAY! It made me seriously consider converting my Sting Ray to all passive (that thought still hasn't left my brain 😅). I had replaced the tuners on my Sterling by Music Man Ray35HH with a set of lightweight Sadowsky tuners (not as lightweight as Hipshot's, but similar design, and still lighter than the stock tuners) I had ordered from Thomann. The diameter of the tuning peg was the same as the stock tuners, but since I went from a 4 screw tuner plate to a single screw plate, I drilled out the 4 existing screw holes, filled them with dowels and put a coat of clear polyurethane over. I then put the 4 bass-side tuners into the slots, lined them up with a straight edge and marked out where the new screw holes would go (the single treble-side tuner alignment was... "something else" 😅). But, like they said in the video, it's just wood, you can try it yourself...or take it to a luthier.
You know, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't like Waverly tuners. The ones on my D-18 don't seem precise and the small buttons are hard to turn for my older, arthritic fingers. The Schaller's that came on my 76 D-35, however, are wonderful. They are smoother and more accurate, imo.
Couldn`t have done it better myself,! even down to taking the `point` from the toothpicks,`i also araldite those in` to make sure, 👍 vaseline or petroleum jelly is an economical substitute for beeswax😁 and the wood `plugs` i would have stained mahogany ,it is reassuring to see how a real luthier values and economizes on their time , great job guys !and good fun to watch ,thanks.
You guys linked to the d’dario black plastic tuning drillbit but you guys were using the music nomad blue rubber-lined bit, which grips the tuner better and offers a little scratch and bump protection for the tuner and the headstock, nitpicky, I know, but in a video about tuners, I think the difference is worth the few bucks extra. Everyone go grab one of those, I just bought a backup one now that we’re talking about them, I like them so much haha
I've done similar modifications to replace tuners but instead of using a dowel I made a plug using a plug cutter and then drilled it to the proper hole size and position. That way the grain is running the same direction as the headstock wood rather than across the grain when using a dowel. I can get almost a perfect match and it's actually less work than turning a dowel.
Tuners are the second most touched thing on your acoustic guitar, after the strings, so it makes sense to get the nicest ones you can. I'm going to be replacing the tuning machines on my electric the next time Stewmac has a sale, or maybe even sooner if I get good progress on the telecaster I'm planning to build.
1/4" Shaft!!!! That's what I need on the Guild! A lot of the good ones are 5 /16" There are A set of Grafteks I really like but I'd have to drill out the Head stock.....not sure I want to go there....?
One question. If upgrading guitar tuners with relatively expensive ones, why not opt for GraphTech's gear ratio tuners where each string has its own matched gear ratio instead of fixed 16:1 by Waverly? They also have an open back tuning machine heads with butterbean buttons and I cost tad cheaper even. Wouldn't that be a better quality of life improvement?
Great primer thanks. But you didn’t even play it so we could hear what it sounded like! I had a lawsuit 1979 Washburn Dreadnaught D25 that I gave to my daughter and that is a cannon, volume and tone goodness. Quite rightly rated as great guitars.
Sam Ash will do a tuner swap for $40 and you can sit and play guitars while the tech is working. But I guess that’s not the point of the video. Thanks for all the great content!!
Take care in removing bushings. I managed to put a crack in my headplate removing one. Buy or create a purpose-built tool that will push out the busing while supporting the area of the headplate surrounding the bushing.
For those who dont want quite as much work. Just go buy some convertion bushings or buy tuners that fit in the holes present in the guitar.
Or....you can get what you actually want, and learn how to do a little work.
That dewalt screwdriver is freaking solid. I bought mine a few years ago. It is awesome for light touches and would be awesome for an electrician installing a ton of faceplates on outlets, etc. Once you get a feel for it's gyroscopic activation, it is the fizz indeed.
Great video from Florida!
its $119........a Ryobi is $24.......I've been using mine for string changes for 4 or 5 years.....and everything else that doesn't take a more powerful drill....its solid too
Hahahaha - I love your wood 'lathe' @ 7:25! Ingenious use of the drill press.
Can't wait until you cut it in half...
Ah man! Don’t remind me…it’s traumatic to see that even once.
Always for science! 🎸🔬🧫🥼⚗️🧪👨🏻🔬
Great video guys, liking the DeWalt 👍
Some useful tips,
for making a dowel look up dowel making jig/plate plenty of easy little jigs videos.
For fitting slotted screws first wind in a same size pozi/Phillips screw, take out then fit slotted screw with candle wax.
For you guys over the pond check out Izzy swan's video on drill bits, he had some awesome drill bits on there but seemed they're only available in USA.
For drilling square use the drill press to drill a hole in a scrap piece and then use as drilling guide, if no drill press use a scrap piece of wood with square cut end, mark 2lines on the end the size of drill , when drilling keep drill bit against end and between lines
Tip. Make sure the tuners go on the correct side. I installed some backwards so they turned backwards to tune them!
Philips head screws were originally designed that way so they would strip out before they were over torqued and the head breaking off. Flat head screws are a little more difficult to use, but they were not designed to fail. Waverly most likely uses them for the classic look just like the rest of that tuner.
A good candidate for bridge slotting and solid bridge pins too!
These "lawsuit" Takamines have been gaining popularity lately, 1:05 doesn't surprise me he loves this thing. From my understanding, Martin set up factories and supply chains in Japan to make them for an international market, but plans fell through. Long story short, Takamine is selling guitars with Martin specs and stops when they get a cease and desist letter (not taken to court, which many people believe). "Hotel California" was recorded on one of these lawsuit 12 Strings, and I wouldn't say these are bad guitars by any means. Still, they're a modder's dream bones because dollar per dollar you can find good deals if you look hard enough. You have the EF360S. The S means that it has a solid top, not a laminated top, so if anyone finds one, that's something to look for. For reference, I played a lot of guitars, but nothing--with the exception of Luthier custom builds--really plays like Martins, but these are definitely close if you know how to fix them up. I'll take one any day over their X series, or Road series tbh
Awesome video fellas, really gave that Takamine a 2nd life!
I bought my first nicer new guitar (a Martin 000-15M) about 2 years ago. I wanted to install a K&K Pure Mini in it, but didn't want to take it to a luthier or a tech, because a) I'm impatient, b) I'm cheap, and c) I have tools and UA-cam. After watching several "How To Install..." videos, I nervously drilled a ½" hole into my brand new $1400 guitar. Everything worked out just fine, and although I'm not quite ready to tackle a neck reset or a re-fret, I'll take on most any guitar work. I've changed nuts on a couple of guitars, sanded and replaced a saddle, and I've been doing my own setups for a few years. It's not that hard to do a little guitar work. Kind of blows my mind that some people won't even try to change their own guitar strings.
Absolutely brilliant!!! I found out the hard way that not all repairs are done well. I had to learn how to do most of things myself and now do all of my own repairs, modifications and maintenance with confidence. Just takes practice and a little self-confidence! thanks very much! from Lancashire, rainy Great Britain. Best Wishes, John F
Bro, I got a set while on sale! I’m excited to use em on my first build. 😅🤞🏼 This is my favorite Lutherie channel by far. Love your work.
6:15 you could also use conversion bushings
Fun Fact... StewMac owns the Waverly brand, which is why they give them so much space in their catalog. Most Waverly butterbeans don't have a knob tension adjustment, but Grover butterbeans do at the end of the worm gear shaft. The Schertler tuners StewMac sells are some of the finest tuners I've ever used, but they don't have a traditional look, especially the oval gear plate. Even so, I put them on my Martin dread. Couldn't be happier.
I ((paid someone to 😁)) swap out my really unsatisfying tuners on my Fender Sonoran, which is one of these guitars that just seems to be better than it should be in the first place. We used Fender locking tuners. This video would’ve helped that guy! But an associate in a different store helped him think it through and come up with basically this method demonstrated here. That one change made this Fender acoustic 70% better. I am gonna try the bridge pin trick you fellas talked about, too!
i bought a 2nd had Alhambra from 1990 which had the same tuning machines on, a decent new pair made such a difference to the guitar..... new nut is next on the cards
I like the casual way you chuck away the old strings, and the tooth pick…. Nice and messy!
This is a good video that explains a lot. I took my open back tuners apart and cleaned then lubed them and that fixed the problem.
Nice! I’ve been working up the courage to swap the factory tuners on my HD-28. Thanks for another great video guys!
Thumbnail you were showing Kluson inline tuner and thought this was going to be a video on somehow working on the tuners themselves like working on the gears inside. Cool work though!
Steve from Manotick Stringworks uses the same Dewalt screwdriver thing and it's amazing.
Wonderful! I am going to try those Waverly Peg Tuners - they do look great too!
Gooood afternoon from central Florida! Hope everyone has a great afternoon!
A real Martin of that vintage would have Grover tuners which are fine and the holes match up. And yes these are great guitars. In the days of partnership they were Martins for those of us who couldn't afford Martins. Mexican labor and the Road Series or whatever it was called back then are their replacement. Cheaper Martins with real Martin stickers.
The Grovers during that time were Rotomatics. One screw hole and a massive hole through the headstock for the tuner mounting hardware.
Unless you replace them with modern Rotomatics you’re going to have to do some modification.
Love the lathe!
Drilling out existing tuner holes to slightly larger diameter can easily crack the headstock! Run your drill in reverse and you won't be sorry...😊
Having access to a metal cutting lath and a supply of brass. I would be inclined to make metal bushes to fill the hole and fit the tuners through.
The guitar's head stock being clamped in a vice like that , supporting the entire guitar body in the air , did i see that right? That's literally putting caution in the wind as tat is usually where the neck breaks from the head but to each their own, luv the Waverly's thanks for the link.
I was wondering about that too before I reminded myself that the guitar wasn’t a Gibson.😀 Seriously, I didn’t notice if the truss rod access was located on the headstock or not. That’s where Gibson puts it and is why their necks break so easily. Still…..
@@BobDorfman Gibson Les Paul has that problem, i wouldn't risk any guitar's head by clamping it in a vice, with its body in the air? please. And then drilling the head in that stressed position is asking for a crack with the vibration from the drill....
I agree with and shared your concern while watching he video. I kept thinking that the owner needed the guitar that night for a gig. A neck break would have been a disaster. I also kept thinking that the guy is a professional luthier and builds $20,000+ guitars, he must know what he’s doing. I’m glad everything turned out ok.
@@BobDorfman True but he did expresses, that he has destroyed some of the guitars that he worked on.
The term "Jobber" has to do with the length of the drill bit, not the tip style. Mechanic's bits are shorter, than jobber bits, twist drill bits are longer and aviation bits are really longer. I have the $800 USA made Copco full index + the #61-80 tiny drill bits, and both sets of Fisch brad point drills, and a bunch of Fisch, Pfel and other Swiss, Austrian, Swedish & German made Forstner bits, plus hole saws, hole cutters and draw plates. I use hypodermic needle tubing for cutting tiny plugs out of mahogany, maple, spruce, koa, bubinga, etc. to plug screw holes with out showing any end grain.
Awesome episode, as usual. Loved it.
i'm heading on down to the local for grover mini's to replace the gigantic... things... that are on my bass, they work, but they're so easy to bump, my other guitars, good tuners, but they don't lock, so i'm gonna get to them.
Barring the difficulties on this Takamine, any luthier or tech that charges $100 to install a set of tuners is overcharging their customers, unless they have to "fill & drill" the screw holes, and even then, that's pricy. I try my best to find better tuners that won't require a lot of additional work, in some cases, even matching the screw holes. Other than that, I love your videos, and the quality of your work is outstanding!
I paid $100 to have mine filled, drilled and replaced (in MI) and it was worth every penny imho. Maybe the market’s lower where you’re at? Maybe it’s really just perceived value.
@@TheSisrob Did your price include the tuners? If so, then it was reasonable IMcheapskateO!
They probably send them with flathead screws in order for them to go in vintage guitars. Back before phillips head screws were used. However, as much as Waverly charges for their tuners, I think they can afford to send the customers both options. Lol. Just my thoughts on it.
those look dope
I would be leary about drilling out the bushings in the headstock. If the drill bit dug into the metal bushing, it could spin the bushing in place, possibly ruining the headstock.
Harbor Freight power driver for 19 bucks, perfect for stringing guitars, also does the twisty thing. Totally love it. On a different note; I want his hair. NOT like I want it in a box. NOT like it would be a trophy. NOT creepy. (OK maybe a little creepy) Enjoy it while you are young my friend. I thought my thick hair would never leave me. At 60 I've been proven a fool. My wife has named my bald spot Jerry. She says things like, "good night jerry." Then kisses my head. (Life could be worse.) Don't ever cut it. Flaunt it while you have it!!!
Yes ! Just Bought A Guild " DS-240" New last Spring At A local Guitar shop and it has a real nice warm Tone. Bought the Tuners Are Horrible..... will check this out....... I've Been Shopping for several Months and still On the Fence what to get......
Open tuning machines are much better for the tone.
Removing 100-150 grams from the headstock and increasing the break angle over a nut matter a lot.
I forgot to mention that. The extra oxygen on the gears adds an extra mid to upper mids boost.
Hilarious 🤐@@DriftwoodGuitars
@@DriftwoodGuitars😂😂
Depends on which oil you use to lubricate the gears.
@@DriftwoodGuitars 100-150 less grams on the headstock would matter as well.
So, now that you have the tuning machines off, and the strings tossed. What else should be looked at and “fixed”? Doing a setuP, saddle work, nut work? Should a backer board be clamped to the back? Or because you are drilling end grain, the blowout is minimal if you apply light pressure? Soap works well if you don’t have bees wax.
Very enjoyable video - kudos!
The glorious MIJ EF360S (S for solid top) laminate guitar that arguably sounded better than a Martin. Too bad we didn't get to hear this one..
Would 3/8” conversion bushings have made this a little easier? $17 usd. Are the takamine machine heads 3/8” or 10mm? Or 10.5mm cause in that case bushings won’t work? I just bought a take a mine lawsuit in mahogany. Love it!
I have Fender DC-60 acoustic and want to upgrade the turners, but which ones is best for this guitar?
Why didn't you check the hole sizes first, then find some good machines that fit?
Cool thanks
So is there a disadvantage of just using the reamed bushings without plugging the remaining portion of the hole with wood and drilling to 1/4"? Is the space between the tuning shaft and wood a problem and is that why plugged it? On a side note, I bought a set of Waverleys years ago...the are definitely in a class of their own as far as open tuners go, and you are getting a premium tuner for the high price.
thank you
I feel braver now. LOL! Seriously though. Thanks! I have a cheap little Hohner guitar that I picked up for $30. I thought it could be a decent Parlor guitar if I changed the nut, tuners, and saddle.
Grover and Gotoh make less expensive open back tuners, the Waverlies are considered the best.
Well timed! I was watching this while I was *attempting* to replace the stock tuners on my Squier Paranormal Cabronita baritone Tele with a set of staggered height Gotoh vintage tuners...and the hole was too small for the Gotoh bushings, and the Gotoh tuners are too large in diameter for the stock bushings. But, I'm going to try your tip of drilling out the stock bushings to work with the Gotohs!
Question: Is it absolutely necessary to *also* plug the back side of the headstock's tuning peg holes in this case? Or would it be fine to just let the bushings take care of it?
I've done the screw-hole-drill-out-and-plug-with-dowels trick for 2 of my basses that I had replaced the tuners (went from vintage-style 4 screws per tuner plate to tuners with just 1 screw), and replaced the stock tuners on a (n arguably excellent) budget semi-hollow 335-copy (which I bought used for $100!) with a set of locking, tulip tuning button tuners that were exact drop-ins.
I wish i could make a guitar with you.
Are Waverly's worth the $200?
so upgrade means replace... i thought doing something to the existing tuners to improve
Is there a link for the toothpicks?
I'm thinking about filling my headstock's tuner holes and drilling in new ones to fit 3 on plate tuners. The difference in spacing from the cylinders on the plate tuners to the separate ones is roughly 5mm, so the tuners will be smaller on the headstock(as far as spacing goes). How much does that matter? because I'm scared the intonation or something will get all jank, mind you I'm also replacing the nut and saddle with blanks, so I'm going to be readjusting the intonation from scratch. (all assuming I drill my new holes accurately and such)
this is my first time doing this btw, im working on a fairly inexpensive guitar. I just need to know if my little project here doesn't end up meaningless because of some measurements I didn't take into account.
I'm actually just gonna use a reamer to smooth out the existing holes and put in machines that just drop in so the only thing I'll have to do is drill in mounting holes. I don't even know how to play guitar really yet and I'm tryna do the most for what? lol
I am gonna make my own nut/saddle tho, idk why but understanding intonation and how the physics of the guitar have a part in it is fascinating to me. I'll try slotting the bridge as well.
So nearly $200 tuners & then you have to mod the guitar to get them to fit including plugging holes because the screws don't line up. I mean why not pay $30-40 dollars & fit locking tuners which would be even more beneficial on an acoustic where string changes happen more often than on electrics?
Amazing work! That guitar looks (and probably tunes) great!
you are the best
you don't need to do any of this if you're willing to use tunners using the metric system built for import guitars; there are many good brands out there.
Wish you would notch bridge solid pins
To be fair they just sound like they are tight. You could of striped, cleaned and lubricated the existing tuning machines refitted and adjusted them for about 50cents. This was a lot of work for very little gain. You could of bought a set that fit the holes and been quicker easier and cheaper to do. You keep saying law suit but that just makes it only more of a waste of time and money.
Bar of soap works well for screws , and smells nicer than beeswax .
OMG, I have never seen tuners that bad!! Even the homemade looking ones on the Soviet era mandolin I have operate smoother than that. With the tuning machine posts fit right to the old bushings, you probably don't even need to fill the hole in the back of the headstock. I've seen quite a few factory made guitars, even from big name manufacturers, that have a lot more slop than that in the holes.
Also, this video reminded me my father-in-law gave me a bunch of old machinist tools.... I have a box full of reamers like that buried in my shop somewhere.... 😁
Those original 40 year old tuning machines probably just needed some lubrification....
You make it look simple, but the amount of precision needed for properly installing new, different ones is actually quite high. Not for everybody.
You should have cleaned and polished the headstock while you had the tuners off.
nice!
This is definitely not a hey! quick and easy upgrade.
Personally, I would take the guitar to a luthier, since he/she/they will have various tuning machines to pick from--rather than buy one myself and try to make it fit.
I bought one of those in 2007 for 50 bucks. A neighbor`s daughter wanted to learn guitar...and destroyed the guitar in a fight with her sister. I think they lied though and traded it for drugs.
Hmmm looks like another famous You Tubers guitar he just did a Vlog on? t LOL
There is no way a person at home could do this repair.
What, you don't have a fully-stocked machine shop in your apartment? 😝
I'll pay the $100 (or £80 as it is here)
dude whats up wit the hair u look like david suziki
What's with the Jerry Garcia look ???😂😂😂😂
first to comment love it
Honestly who cares. You tune it up.
I normally agree with 99.9% of what you say on your channel however.. "bad tuners are why my guitar won't stay in tune" is the biggest load of malarkey I've ever heard in my life! There's many reasons a guitar can't or won't stay in tune. The issue can be with the tuners but properly maintained they are not the problem nor is the amount of money that you spend on them going to make a difference in the way it stays InTune. You can get a better tuning ratio, giving you a finer adjustment to the tuning. But I dare anyone to be able to take a pair of vice grips clamp them on the tuning post where the string goes through and turn that and get the head to turn. you can't. it's impossible .you will break that tuner before you drive a worm gear in reverse so the problem is nobody taking slack out of their strings when they go back and forth back and forth back and forth trying to tune when they obviously don't need to be trying to tune cuz they can't, and or the screws in the tuner being loose you have one on the tuner head one in the back going through the gear. Or maybe just a little machine oil would make all of the difference but there is no such thing I don't care how cheap how old or how worn-out the tuners are as a bad tuner unless you're talkin about the neanderthal attempting to tune the instrument now that tuner can definitely be bad.... If it feels like you got crackers or oatmeal or sand or granola or whatever you said in your tuner you need to do more maintenance on your instruments or get a better luthier hell even a guitar tech apprentice. You make some beautiful instruments but your preface that the tuners are the issue if your guitar won't stay in tune is completely wrong.
When did I ever say that the guitar wouldn’t stay in tune? That wasn’t the issue at all haha. You’re all upset and clearly didn’t watch the video.
I like your channel, but respectfully, that was a confusing video. The dowelings were unnecessary. In fact having a 1/4" hole right through means the new string posts may bind on the timber. And they'll have to be drilled out if you ever need to replace the bushings. Plus there's a good chance the old machineheads just need cleaning and lubricating. Either way, I'd strongly recommend using a small smear of grease on the string posts where they rub on the bushings, especially since you drilled them by hand. (You have a drill press, and if you couldn't mount the guitar there, then you could have at least drilled a guide block, or even just taken the bushings over to it mounted in a scrap timber block, in which case, you could have even used an end mill.) Also, the timber won't "blow out" with a twist drill, since you are parallel to the grain. And FWIW, 80's Japanese stuff is excellent quality. Look inside that guitar and compare the fitment of the bracings, kerfings, blocks etc to one made by Gibson in the 1980's...
My tuners are fine... but that "Mama's House" old lady haircut definitely does... 😂... jk.. lol ,.. love you Chris.. your channel is awesome.. please cut your hair.
Try looking up cocktail sticks. Available in pretty much any shop in the uk. Round pointy sticks. I use them for the same sort of job 😊
There are only a handful of luthiers that I concider "Bob Ross of the guitar", You, Dan from StewMac, Ted Woodford... But for some reason only You've decided to go for a full steal his look kind of vibe.😂
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it! Thanks for the video!
As always, nicely done gentlemen... The more I see of what you do, the more proud (prouder?) I am of my Driftwood guitars. Keep on keepin' on! Kindest regards,
Karl
Pretty big for a Taka-Mini!
Great video. I’ll also call out that by using the original bushings you and not using the newer ones you don’t have to try to deal with the raccoon eyes that are there on the veneer from where the old bushings sat for decades. I dealt with this on a friends martin where I upgraded tuning machines and watched a few of Brian Kinsey’s videos…even he tells you that you can still see it when you sand and buff. Your solution avoids that headache. Nicely done!
I dud this on 3 guitars, their original Grover rotomatics are screwed so tight that nut dents are deep and you can't remove them completely without refinishing. Pain.
They sell oversized bushings for converting these guitars. I’ve used them to upgrade guitars from shoddy cast tuners to butterbean tuners. A lot less work and only costs maybe $9.
Yes, I’ve used the conversion bushings also. It was an easy, simple solution and look like the originals.
@driftwoodguitars , if you find interesting, please make a video comparing the effect a piezo element have on the acoustic sound of a guitar. In my opinion it "steals" vibration that would reach the guitar bridge and as a consequence, drags resonance as a whole. 🤩🤩🙌🏻🙏🏻
Trying to upgrade the Tuners on my Bass ( Sterling Stingray SS-4 Short Scale ) but they don't make Drop-in Upgrades. Your camera is phenomenal = so clear & detailed. Enjoyed this one alot. Fantastic job.
First off, congrats on the Sterling Short Scale Sting Ray - I had played one of those in a store, and was BLOWN AWAY! It made me seriously consider converting my Sting Ray to all passive (that thought still hasn't left my brain 😅).
I had replaced the tuners on my Sterling by Music Man Ray35HH with a set of lightweight Sadowsky tuners (not as lightweight as Hipshot's, but similar design, and still lighter than the stock tuners) I had ordered from Thomann. The diameter of the tuning peg was the same as the stock tuners, but since I went from a 4 screw tuner plate to a single screw plate, I drilled out the 4 existing screw holes, filled them with dowels and put a coat of clear polyurethane over. I then put the 4 bass-side tuners into the slots, lined them up with a straight edge and marked out where the new screw holes would go (the single treble-side tuner alignment was... "something else" 😅).
But, like they said in the video, it's just wood, you can try it yourself...or take it to a luthier.
You know, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't like Waverly tuners. The ones on my D-18 don't seem precise and the small buttons are hard to turn for my older, arthritic fingers. The Schaller's that came on my 76 D-35, however, are wonderful. They are smoother and more accurate, imo.
Thank you for the great video showing how to do this. Bet you really enjoy working on guitars.
Couldn`t have done it better myself,! even down to taking the `point`
from the toothpicks,`i also araldite those in` to make sure, 👍
vaseline or petroleum jelly is an economical substitute for beeswax😁
and the wood `plugs` i would have stained mahogany ,it is reassuring
to see how a real luthier values and economizes on their time ,
great job guys !and good fun to watch ,thanks.
Awe shucks...........I really wanted to hear that guitar, lol.
You guys linked to the d’dario black plastic tuning drillbit but you guys were using the music nomad blue rubber-lined bit, which grips the tuner better and offers a little scratch and bump protection for the tuner and the headstock, nitpicky, I know, but in a video about tuners, I think the difference is worth the few bucks extra. Everyone go grab one of those, I just bought a backup one now that we’re talking about them, I like them so much haha
I've done similar modifications to replace tuners but instead of using a dowel I made a plug using a plug cutter and then drilled it to the proper hole size and position. That way the grain is running the same direction as the headstock wood rather than across the grain when using a dowel. I can get almost a perfect match and it's actually less work than turning a dowel.
Tuners are the second most touched thing on your acoustic guitar, after the strings, so it makes sense to get the nicest ones you can. I'm going to be replacing the tuning machines on my electric the next time Stewmac has a sale, or maybe even sooner if I get good progress on the telecaster I'm planning to build.
1/4" Shaft!!!! That's what I need on the Guild! A lot of the good ones are 5 /16" There are A set of Grafteks I really like but I'd have to drill out the Head stock.....not sure I want to go there....?
One question. If upgrading guitar tuners with relatively expensive ones, why not opt for GraphTech's gear ratio tuners where each string has its own matched gear ratio instead of fixed 16:1 by Waverly? They also have an open back tuning machine heads with butterbean buttons and I cost tad cheaper even. Wouldn't that be a better quality of life improvement?
Great primer thanks. But you didn’t even play it so we could hear what it sounded like! I had a lawsuit 1979 Washburn Dreadnaught D25 that I gave to my daughter and that is a cannon, volume and tone goodness. Quite rightly rated as great guitars.
Sam Ash will do a tuner swap for $40 and you can sit and play guitars while the tech is working. But I guess that’s not the point of the video. Thanks for all the great content!!
Nice job.
The brand shouldn't exist off of the efforts of others, but great job fixing shortcomings of a copy.
Don’t StewMac have adapter bushings for these situations? Seems like the easiest solution for a non-luthier