Looks good with the canvas on it. I believe the black vinyl/plastic patch is to prevent fuel splash onto the canvas when filling up. All series 88's had their filler cap at that location, as well as series 2a 109's, but not series 3 109's!
I have always found a canvas tilt to be warmer, quieter, more waterproof, weighed less so better performance and much nicer in summer with the sides rolled up. All in all a much better option!
So far it feels noticeably cooler on these hot days (I'm sure it will be warmer in winter too) and quieter. We've had some heavy showers today and with the hard top the footwells would have been awash - dry as a bone, well pleased!
Hi Phill, Thanks for sharing the conversion. It is quite the transformation, and should be warmer in winter. My 88 Series 2 has the sand canvas and looks equally smart. I have an issue with exhaust fumes in the cab too. It has a side exit (LHS) exhaust, so I might try and extend this as you have done. All the best, Ian
Thanks Ian. Interestingly, I drove with the back rolled up and door tops in place initially - there were no fumes entering the cabin. It was only when the door tops were removed that the problem became apparent. I guess it's much like the venturi effect in a carburettor and there are various aerodynamic ways of solving the issue, but for now I have a spare exhaust which I'm going to put through the rollers and bend to exit before the mudflap. That's the most aesthetically pleasing solution at least!
steamwally. Good evening Phill, thanks for sharing your experiences and the suggestions to help remedy the situation. I think the army went with canvas fume hoods behind the cab, but I like the feel of the canvas partially rolled up at the sides and back to enjoy the short summer months here. Best wishes and happy Land Rovering.
Got my hardtop to an almost zero leak factor. Resealed gutter insane out and new rubber seals , dumdum and fill all holes however tiny. Oh also I insulate the panels so no condensation! I do love a canvas top though, those brackets on mine that you thought could be rifle racks? Turns out they’re truck cab brackets. I like them too! Can’t kip in one tho
You deffinitly can get them pretty good, but I had always intended to go back to canvas one day. The hard top I have is not particularly nice and it just wasn't worth the effort to try and get it all sealed again. Interesting to know you have the truck cab brackets, 109" Land Rover with truck cab are sub zero..
Well it must have a cab on at some point but it’s been all sorts down the years. I like the originality that I’ve got , and I try to conserve that, but don’t feel any compunction to be slavish, I’ll improve it where it can be improved. Trouble is storing the stuff you’re not using. Hardtops are massive!
My tilt was over 20 years old and very religious when I got it. I thought long and hard about whether to replace it with another, or put a hard top or pick up cab on. Never regretted replacing the tilt and, as long as it's kept outside the canvas should be just about self sealing (just about!). If changing the exhaust is too much of a faff you can get a fume curtain that sits behind the front seats - also keeps the heat in in winter! One thing that might - lets be honest, will! - leak are the brass buckles and straps to roll the sides up. While the main body of the canvas is waterproof those straps definitely are not.
It's funny really, I went away from the original tilt because it leaked so badly. I realize now that was because it hadn't been looked after and had never been properly secured to the frame whilst it shrunk to size when new. Looked back at old photos, it was an appalling fit. I went over the new one last night with copious amounts of Fabsil and it leaked not a drop during the storms today, very pleased! The fume curtain is a good idea, will certainly be glad of one of those in the winter. I also saw a Land Rover recently where the owner had added an air scoop onto the heater intake, which as standard is a very poor idea in aerodynamic terms. Above 20mph it struggles and an air scoop renders the fan redundant. Combined with a fume curtain, it should be toasty... future project. I've just got a new rear section for the exhaust and will put it through the rollers tomorrow and get it exiting before the mudflap.
@@steamwally Great stuff. I bought a fume curtain along with a new tilt and spare wheel cover from Exmoor but the 88" doesn't really need the curtain as it heats up ok without it. With the extra cargo space it might be a better idea for the 109". Don't bother with the canvas wheel cover though - it's not a great fit and ends up being a bonnet top water feature! ;-) Cheers
@@daviemaclean61 Yeah I agree, think it will be necessary with the 109. In winters past, I have been cold with four layers and a heavy sheepskin jacket! Tried the spare wheel cover years ago, particularly entertaining in the autumn..
My Lightweight came with the sharktooth rail rivetted on from MOD. The metal on your new one does look thinner grade than original, i don't think mine could be flexed so easily . With the back and sides open it does suck in fumes so I have tried homemade and off the shelf fume curtains. They did work but I only really use it in summer and like the open feeling so just put up with it now.
I haven't in the end - the vinyl patch is present on original canvas tilts and is for earlier models with the underseat fuel tank and filler next behind the drivers door - I hadn't appreciated that. As for the sharktooth rail, I was able to improve the fit but it seems they all come badly twisted by the galvanizing process, not good! Overall, I am very pleased with it, I've just spent a week away touring Exmoor national park with WRD and what ever the weather, it was fine.
We sure have yes, initially the canvas was leaking slightly at the seams but still a vast improvement over the hard top. During the last of the warmer weather, I proofed the canvas well with Fabsil and it's bone dry and warm inside.
@@spannersonthefen3491 Yes, it all came from Exmoor. Generally nice, though the "sharktooth" rail for the windscreen top had distorted very badly during the galvanizing process and took some effort to fit. Otherwise, best thing I've done for the vehicle.
I think a canvas equipped 109 is sub zero.. You hear a bit more mechanical noise but the wind noise seems no greater. It does not reverberate like the tin top does, so it seems like a noise reduction over all. It's certainly a more pleasant place to be.
I had the same issues when I converted my 109 from hard to softtop.... The quality of the new parts is poor. You mentioned a modification hown at Classic Land Rover Magazine. Can you please tell me in what issue it was? Thanks
It would have been about Issue 87, unfortunately I have just thrown out a load of old magazines. Hopefully the Key Publishing website will help? The modification was simply to rivet the shark tooth rail to the windscreen, pulling it back to the correct shape. Since doing that, the interior of my 109" has been completely dry and greatly warmer than it was before.
Did you have to alter the seat belt mounts ? As on my S3 88 SW they are fixed up on the sides (b posts) and would be removed if i was to do a similar conversion. On my old lightweight it was never an issues because It had lap belts . Thanks for any advice.
I haven't had to alter the belts, they are already fixed to the centre bulkhead behind the seats. I'm not sure that's quite correct but it seems to work ok.
I think its normal that your belts fix to bulkhead as wrd was originally spec,ed as a rag top like my old lightweight with lap belts. I think mounting kits are available from paddocks etc to get around my issue. Really appreciate you taking the time to reply. Cheers and looking fwd to your next video.
After rainy spells I was getting splashed with cold water when driving, it was sitting in the inside gutter (until I went over a bump). I ripped off the sealant on the exterior and re-sealed with clear sealant, seems to have (kind of) solved it.
Maybe after a few years at least! There is a chap with a "boingy" 90 in my street and I was amused to notice that in winter, he adds strategically placed tin foil to the bulkhead, presumably deflecting rain water.. I believe Land Rover never really intended owners to remove the tin top and swap to canvas in the summer, like so many do. It's very hard to get a good fit with the hard top once it's been off.
@@steamwally Yes my Boingy perentie 110 pissed water in every where the misses hated that. I just use to twist the right foot a little and most of it would miss. Had to sell it...... But hopefully i'm going to be able to get myself a series 2 109 soon. Not enjoying being land rover less they get in your blood.
Looks great with the new canvas top. Look forward to see her repainted, I quite like the Marine Blue especially with that colour top.
Looks good with the canvas on it. I believe the black vinyl/plastic patch is to prevent fuel splash onto the canvas when filling up. All series 88's had their filler cap at that location, as well as series 2a 109's, but not series 3 109's!
I'd not considered that, but that sounds very plausible. If that's the case, I retract my comments!
I have always found a canvas tilt to be warmer, quieter, more waterproof, weighed less so better performance and much nicer in summer with the sides rolled up. All in all a much better option!
So far it feels noticeably cooler on these hot days (I'm sure it will be warmer in winter too) and quieter. We've had some heavy showers today and with the hard top the footwells would have been awash - dry as a bone, well pleased!
Hi Phill,
Thanks for sharing the conversion. It is quite the transformation, and should be warmer in winter. My 88 Series 2 has the sand canvas and looks equally smart. I have an issue with exhaust fumes in the cab too. It has a side exit (LHS) exhaust, so I might try and extend this as you have done. All the best, Ian
Thanks Ian. Interestingly, I drove with the back rolled up and door tops in place initially - there were no fumes entering the cabin. It was only when the door tops were removed that the problem became apparent. I guess it's much like the venturi effect in a carburettor and there are various aerodynamic ways of solving the issue, but for now I have a spare exhaust which I'm going to put through the rollers and bend to exit before the mudflap. That's the most aesthetically pleasing solution at least!
steamwally. Good evening Phill, thanks for sharing your experiences and the suggestions to help remedy the situation. I think the army went with canvas fume hoods behind the cab, but I like the feel of the canvas partially rolled up at the sides and back to enjoy the short summer months here. Best wishes and happy Land Rovering.
Looks great, good job
Got my hardtop to an almost zero leak factor. Resealed gutter insane out and new rubber seals , dumdum and fill all holes however tiny. Oh also I insulate the panels so no condensation! I do love a canvas top though, those brackets on mine that you thought could be rifle racks? Turns out they’re truck cab brackets. I like them too! Can’t kip in one tho
You deffinitly can get them pretty good, but I had always intended to go back to canvas one day. The hard top I have is not particularly nice and it just wasn't worth the effort to try and get it all sealed again.
Interesting to know you have the truck cab brackets, 109" Land Rover with truck cab are sub zero..
Well it must have a cab on at some point but it’s been all sorts down the years. I like the originality that I’ve got , and I try to conserve that, but don’t feel any compunction to be slavish, I’ll improve it where it can be improved. Trouble is storing the stuff you’re not using. Hardtops are massive!
i noticed that you are quite happy with the results mate! great video
My tilt was over 20 years old and very religious when I got it. I thought long and hard about whether to replace it with another, or put a hard top or pick up cab on. Never regretted replacing the tilt and, as long as it's kept outside the canvas should be just about self sealing (just about!). If changing the exhaust is too much of a faff you can get a fume curtain that sits behind the front seats - also keeps the heat in in winter!
One thing that might - lets be honest, will! - leak are the brass buckles and straps to roll the sides up. While the main body of the canvas is waterproof those straps definitely are not.
It's funny really, I went away from the original tilt because it leaked so badly. I realize now that was because it hadn't been looked after and had never been properly secured to the frame whilst it shrunk to size when new. Looked back at old photos, it was an appalling fit. I went over the new one last night with copious amounts of Fabsil and it leaked not a drop during the storms today, very pleased!
The fume curtain is a good idea, will certainly be glad of one of those in the winter. I also saw a Land Rover recently where the owner had added an air scoop onto the heater intake, which as standard is a very poor idea in aerodynamic terms. Above 20mph it struggles and an air scoop renders the fan redundant. Combined with a fume curtain, it should be toasty... future project.
I've just got a new rear section for the exhaust and will put it through the rollers tomorrow and get it exiting before the mudflap.
@@steamwally Great stuff. I bought a fume curtain along with a new tilt and spare wheel cover from Exmoor but the 88" doesn't really need the curtain as it heats up ok without it. With the extra cargo space it might be a better idea for the 109". Don't bother with the canvas wheel cover though - it's not a great fit and ends up being a bonnet top water feature! ;-) Cheers
@@daviemaclean61 Yeah I agree, think it will be necessary with the 109. In winters past, I have been cold with four layers and a heavy sheepskin jacket! Tried the spare wheel cover years ago, particularly entertaining in the autumn..
My Lightweight came with the sharktooth rail rivetted on from MOD. The metal on your new one does look thinner grade than original, i don't think mine could be flexed so easily . With the back and sides open it does suck in fumes so I have tried homemade and off the shelf fume curtains. They did work but I only really use it in summer and like the open feeling so just put up with it now.
Great conversion 👍🏻 Did you speak to Exmoor Trim about the issues you had. What was their reply?
I haven't in the end - the vinyl patch is present on original canvas tilts and is for earlier models with the underseat fuel tank and filler next behind the drivers door - I hadn't appreciated that.
As for the sharktooth rail, I was able to improve the fit but it seems they all come badly twisted by the galvanizing process, not good! Overall, I am very pleased with it, I've just spent a week away touring Exmoor national park with WRD and what ever the weather, it was fine.
Have you had much rain yet Phil? How’s the canvas doing?
We sure have yes, initially the canvas was leaking slightly at the seams but still a vast improvement over the hard top. During the last of the warmer weather, I proofed the canvas well with Fabsil and it's bone dry and warm inside.
@@steamwally Good to hear. I'm sure I'll be fitting one to my 2A next year. Did you get all the hood sticks and other parts from Exmoor too?
@@spannersonthefen3491 Yes, it all came from Exmoor. Generally nice, though the "sharktooth" rail for the windscreen top had distorted very badly during the galvanizing process and took some effort to fit. Otherwise, best thing I've done for the vehicle.
Its a thing of beauty!
How is the road noise with a canvas top?
I think a canvas equipped 109 is sub zero..
You hear a bit more mechanical noise but the wind noise seems no greater. It does not reverberate like the tin top does, so it seems like a noise reduction over all. It's certainly a more pleasant place to be.
@@steamwally i think i will keep my 88 Lightweight project a softtop then.
A softtop land rover just looks fantastic.
@@rickz9495 Definitely for a lightweight! Full safari StaWag's look awesome as do truck cab 88's, otherwise, soft top all the way.
Try pointing the exhaust down as well as to the side.
Cheers Eric
Sorry meant to ask about the rear view mounting too
The holes are there for the mirror already, or should be!
Will look grand when it's had the paint job done!!😎🐓🐓🇬🇧
Cheers, I quite fancy getting the doors and tailgate sign written just for fun. It's certainly going to be fun preparing it for paint..
I had the same issues when I converted my 109 from hard to softtop.... The quality of the new parts is poor. You mentioned a modification hown at Classic Land Rover Magazine. Can you please tell me in what issue it was? Thanks
It would have been about Issue 87, unfortunately I have just thrown out a load of old magazines. Hopefully the Key Publishing website will help?
The modification was simply to rivet the shark tooth rail to the windscreen, pulling it back to the correct shape. Since doing that, the interior of my 109" has been completely dry and greatly warmer than it was before.
@@steamwally Thanks a lot. Great help
Did you have to alter the seat belt mounts ? As on my S3 88 SW they are fixed up on the sides (b posts) and would be removed if i was to do a similar conversion. On my old lightweight it was never an issues because It had lap belts . Thanks for any advice.
I haven't had to alter the belts, they are already fixed to the centre bulkhead behind the seats. I'm not sure that's quite correct but it seems to work ok.
I think its normal that your belts fix to bulkhead as wrd was originally spec,ed as a rag top like my old lightweight with lap belts. I think mounting kits are available from paddocks etc to get around my issue. Really appreciate you taking the time to reply. Cheers and looking fwd to your next video.
After rainy spells I was getting splashed with cold water when driving, it was sitting in the inside gutter (until I went over a bump). I ripped off the sealant on the exterior and re-sealed with clear sealant, seems to have (kind of) solved it.
Likewise, I actually did that when I purchased the hard top, but it needs doing properly now. I couldn't face all those rivets..
They probably left the factory leaking as bad as that 😄
My 88 leaks just as bad haha
Maybe after a few years at least! There is a chap with a "boingy" 90 in my street and I was amused to notice that in winter, he adds strategically placed tin foil to the bulkhead, presumably deflecting rain water..
I believe Land Rover never really intended owners to remove the tin top and swap to canvas in the summer, like so many do. It's very hard to get a good fit with the hard top once it's been off.
@@steamwally had to laugh at "boingy" Are we talking big tyres and a lift kit?
@@kjross73 Just a term for coil sprung Land Rovers!
@@steamwally Yes my Boingy perentie 110 pissed water in every where the misses hated that. I just use to twist the right foot a little and most of it would miss.
Had to sell it...... But hopefully i'm going to be able to get myself a series 2 109 soon.
Not enjoying being land rover less they get in your blood.
I say Bronze Green!!!!! Remove the door tops and roll up the sides!