Jeff doesn’t say that when you have APT your hamstrings are tight, he says that because the pelvis rotates, it makes them appear tight. So, I think this Ben guy is at least being deceptive in some places. ت
I am curious as to what you think of AthleanX's other content? I do follow the guy and genuinely enjoy most of the videos and exercises he has shown me. I have benefited a lot from doing the famous facepulls with external rotation (I think I did at least). As a person prone to shoulder pain it has eased both sides of my shoulders after heavy sets of pressing vertically and mainly horizontally. He was also the first to show me the concept behind effective reps, which has made my hypertrophy focused exercises such as curls and one arm cable rows tire the muscle group much more effectively (if soreness and "brain signals" are to be trusted of course). Of course he has not invented effective reps but it is a concept I haven't really seen other strength/hypertrophy focused channels mentioned as an alternative to normal 3 sets of 10-12 reps. However there are other opinions of his I just cannot agree with such as high effort 10 minute ab workouts that incentives people to work abs via metabolic circuits instead of fixing their diet first and applying progressive overload to strengthen and increase the muscle as you'd do with any other group in your body.
1:33 True, but normal ≠ always good IMO. In general, as a (somewhat philosophical) addition. Noting a specific percentage of the population has a certain situation going on doesn't say much more than this, that either a lot or few of people have this. Nothing more. To be accurate.
close to 50% of people are considered obese in the US and this doesn't mean obesity is fine and normal. though the difference with his statement is different because of the fact that he shows that since the grand majority of the population isn't dealing with very severe back pain all the time, whereas obese people actually do have increased risks of lots of acute and chronic diseases. Interestingly, to sorta argue with ben, about 1 in 3 people have back problems in their lives. is this due to a large amount of apt or just the relatively weak backs of people idk but it is intersting.
@@jayvinwilliams8508 just to throw another possibility out about back pain happening at some point in peoples lives. Couldn't age play a major role as we degenerate with age, but also such a broad stat that we dont know anything about their lifestyle, for example people who do manual labor all their lives.
These statements are definitely a personal attack because UA-cam is full of people who have PhDs in this field, or at least claim to have PhDs, and they say the same things that Jeff is saying. So why, all of a sudden, would you target Jeff in the middle of this?
Thank you for this video! I started working out back in April and one of the first videos I saw was Athlean-X video about APT. I have multiple times afterwards been hammering myself mentally over the fact I haven’t done anything about it. Nocebo is real. Every time I have done back extension. I have been rethinking wether or not I should continue do it, because my lower back is “strong” and my abs are “weak”, could it worsen my APT. Thank you for freeing my mind from this.
I do have horrible posture though both in that area and shoulders / upper back and would like a reliable way to change that. And your video didn’t really address that. What do I do then?
This is great! I am a PT and use to focus so much on fixing this APT but people would end up gripping their glutes which would cause other issues. I know focus on having the mobility in the pelvis to move in and out of an anterior and posterior tilt. Thank you for highlighting this.
APT is not the problem. If people have frequent lower back pain then they should train their lower backs more with proper progression not less to make it stronger so as to prevent pain doing daily tasks.
Have you looked at the work of Esther Gokhale ? She observed the posture of more "natural" population groups, and recommends a _slight_ anterior pelvic tilt. She also claims that the typical arch of the spine is NOT the natural condition (see historical anatomy charts), but the result of our modern lifestyle and posture.
Thanks Ben! I love your videos. I remember Greg Doucette doing a critique video of 2 ATHLEAN-X chest exercise videos where in one video Cavalier ranked an exercise as great and in another video he warns never to do it. The hypertrophy community had a great laugh when Jeff said one of the best biceps exercises was the waiter curl. And, of course, there was the “fake weights” controversy where he was accused of using fake weights in a deadlift video. Then to prove he was not using fake weights Jeff does a follow up video where he claims the weights are real but now his technique is terrible with an over-arching back. I used to follow ATHLEAN-X. I thought he was a wonderful source for learning the names of exercise movements and how to do them. Now I follow the more science-based providers similar to yours like Renaissance Periodization, Wolf Coaching, and Jeff Nippard.
75% of the population having it doesnt mean it is “normal” in the sense that it was intended for the human body to work that way, and the reasons proposed are the shoes people constantly wear that elevate their heels off of the ground, and the amount of time we spend sitting causing the lower abdominals to weaken, hip flexors to tighten, etc. This is a terrible argument in light of these points, unless you also address and argue against those points (which you did for the latter point later in the video, but the first still remains). Personally i think it simply increases pelvic tilt while you have the shoes on, because iirc muscles wont adaptively shorten unless it was literally constantly in that shortened position, so it is just a visual difference. And hell, even if it is normal, i think most people trying to “fix” this are doing it at least partly for aesthetics, so simply telling them it is “normal” doesnt settle the issue. For those that are trying to fix low back pain, i too have been down this “fixing anterior pelvic tilt” road and it did absolutely nothing for it. Switching to barefoot shoes didnt help either. What did was squatting, and i imagine deadlifts would work even better. What really got rid of it for good was a job I had where i would pick up 40lb bags from a palette all day and my low back basically always hurt, but after i quit that job i basically never have low back pain, the only exception being lack of sleep/stress/fatigue. The fact that it is always the low back is still indicitave of some sort of abnormality though, unless you want to propose that humans in general just experience low back pain, and i dont see why that would be an impossibility. Anybody want to interview tribal people about their back pain?
1:35 I’m not saying you’re wrong about this topic at hand, idk. However‘normal’ isn’t inherently good. Most people, especially people over 40, have mobility issues. Most are not fit. Most don’t live past 80
14:44 Thought this too: Why is he moving his spine and then saying the glute doesn't work as much as wanted in this movement (as a pseudo-argument)? Yeah, obviously it doesn't, because the glute max's mostly a hip-mover. Bunch of bullcrap. Thanks for the mostly objective breakdown. Strong greetings Stavros
As physioterapist student (in Czech Republic) and I must say, we have pretty decent health education. AND still... sometimes there are ppl like x which just say nonse from 19th century and i fukin hate it........ like woooow scary disbalances, scary hyperlordosis, scary knee cave and so on. So im happy there are ppl like you. and yes these problems exist, but in like 95% it is just personal anatomy differences
Yo, here from the MM community! This was a great video enjoyed the step by step breakdown, and hope loads of people see this vid so they can stop thinking (or telling people) that their broken!
APT may be harmless, but i dont want my pelvis to look like its shifting anteriorly simply because i dont like how it looks, and the fact that it makes my butt and stomach stick out. Especially when the tilt is so extreme like in my case. So although you dont consider it a problem I do, and would really appreciate it if you could provide a solution
APT is not only harmless, it how most of our bodies look, and it is also very functional AND you cannot fix something that is tied to your genetic structure
Yes, we need more videos like this. Enough of this nonsense ideas invented to create problems. They make cripples out of healthy people. They stigmatize them. Im tired of these fitness influ
Don't know about your specific situation and circumstances, but doing exercises for the TVA-muscle (transversus abdominis) has helped me with this. Not to walk around all day with a "vacuum pose", but to create awareness for this movement/position of having the belly not hang out as much. Strong greetings Stavros
86% of the US population is overweight or obese. is it normal? in your line of thinking: YEZZZ. LOOOL you are nothing but jealous, bro !!!!! Of course it can be fixed. even in 3 steps. Assomeone else labels it: always think muscle. It is a mixture of weakness and bad habits/missing body awareness. Your reaction to Jeff's video : making me unsubscribe
Dude, APT is a legit problem and can cause spinal issues if not dealt with properly.. while what he says about 'fixing' is a bit of stretch to some degree, the advice isn't all that bad.. some food for thought..
Watched it for 16 minutes plus.. then I couldn't anymore.. but take what you want from it.. your argument on being 'vague' was lifted from your own video, at the 10 minute mark.. so yes, watched it.. my 2 cents, that's all.. you don't have to like it or agree with it.. just like I didn't agree with Ben, for once actually..
I have spent 40 years building a pretty good natural body using nothing but biology. Never paid too much attention to the Bro-Science back in the day and pay less attention to the "science" of today. Learn muscles path and listen your how your body's response. We are all very individual when it comes to building muscle.
Jeff doesn’t say that when you have APT your hamstrings are tight, he says that because the pelvis rotates, it makes them appear tight. So, I think this Ben guy is at least being deceptive in some places.
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Well said Ben! Remember Jeff is the guy who said you should breath in the middle of a squat! 😂
I am curious as to what you think of AthleanX's other content?
I do follow the guy and genuinely enjoy most of the videos and exercises he has shown me. I have benefited a lot from doing the famous facepulls with external rotation (I think I did at least). As a person prone to shoulder pain it has eased both sides of my shoulders after heavy sets of pressing vertically and mainly horizontally. He was also the first to show me the concept behind effective reps, which has made my hypertrophy focused exercises such as curls and one arm cable rows tire the muscle group much more effectively (if soreness and "brain signals" are to be trusted of course). Of course he has not invented effective reps but it is a concept I haven't really seen other strength/hypertrophy focused channels mentioned as an alternative to normal 3 sets of 10-12 reps.
However there are other opinions of his I just cannot agree with such as high effort 10 minute ab workouts that incentives people to work abs via metabolic circuits instead of fixing their diet first and applying progressive overload to strengthen and increase the muscle as you'd do with any other group in your body.
It is simple: AthleanX is the best and has always been.
1:33 True, but normal ≠ always good IMO. In general, as a (somewhat philosophical) addition. Noting a specific percentage of the population has a certain situation going on doesn't say much more than this, that either a lot or few of people have this. Nothing more. To be accurate.
close to 50% of people are considered obese in the US and this doesn't mean obesity is fine and normal. though the difference with his statement is different because of the fact that he shows that since the grand majority of the population isn't dealing with very severe back pain all the time, whereas obese people actually do have increased risks of lots of acute and chronic diseases. Interestingly, to sorta argue with ben, about 1 in 3 people have back problems in their lives. is this due to a large amount of apt or just the relatively weak backs of people idk but it is intersting.
@@jayvinwilliams8508 Don't know for sure either, probably needs more research. Good point, thanks.
@@jayvinwilliams8508 just to throw another possibility out about back pain happening at some point in peoples lives. Couldn't age play a major role as we degenerate with age, but also such a broad stat that we dont know anything about their lifestyle, for example people who do manual labor all their lives.
These statements are definitely a personal attack because UA-cam is full of people who have PhDs in this field, or at least claim to have PhDs, and they say the same things that Jeff is saying. So why, all of a sudden, would you target Jeff in the middle of this?
Thank you for this video! I started working out back in April and one of the first videos I saw was Athlean-X video about APT. I have multiple times afterwards been hammering myself mentally over the fact I haven’t done anything about it. Nocebo is real.
Every time I have done back extension. I have been rethinking wether or not I should continue do it, because my lower back is “strong” and my abs are “weak”, could it worsen my APT. Thank you for freeing my mind from this.
thanks for the comment and for sharing. glad i could help.
I do have horrible posture though both in that area and shoulders / upper back and would like a reliable way to change that. And your video didn’t really address that. What do I do then?
You can't really change posture. It's structural. Check out Jeff Nippard's video on it.
Amazing video we need one on quack university as well !
This is great! I am a PT and use to focus so much on fixing this APT but people would end up gripping their glutes which would cause other issues. I know focus on having the mobility in the pelvis to move in and out of an anterior and posterior tilt.
Thank you for highlighting this.
Thanx for video Ben!
Athlean X is still the best!
I agree, we need to see those example people without any clothes on to properly assess
What do you think about Сonor Harris and his posture methods?
APT is not the problem. If people have frequent lower back pain then they should train their lower backs more with proper progression not less to make it stronger so as to prevent pain doing daily tasks.
Have you looked at the work of Esther Gokhale ? She observed the posture of more "natural" population groups, and recommends a _slight_ anterior pelvic tilt. She also claims that the typical arch of the spine is NOT the natural condition (see historical anatomy charts), but the result of our modern lifestyle and posture.
Always the people with good posture saying posture doesnt matter, if you were a hunchback embarrest to leave the house youll think different
Thanks Ben! I love your videos.
I remember Greg Doucette doing a critique video of 2 ATHLEAN-X chest exercise videos where in one video Cavalier ranked an exercise as great and in another video he warns never to do it.
The hypertrophy community had a great laugh when Jeff said one of the best biceps exercises was the waiter curl.
And, of course, there was the “fake weights” controversy where he was accused of using fake weights in a deadlift video. Then to prove he was not using fake weights Jeff does a follow up video where he claims the weights are real but now his technique is terrible with an over-arching back.
I used to follow ATHLEAN-X. I thought he was a wonderful source for learning the names of exercise movements and how to do them. Now I follow the more science-based providers similar to yours like Renaissance Periodization, Wolf Coaching, and Jeff Nippard.
75% of the population having it doesnt mean it is “normal” in the sense that it was intended for the human body to work that way, and the reasons proposed are the shoes people constantly wear that elevate their heels off of the ground, and the amount of time we spend sitting causing the lower abdominals to weaken, hip flexors to tighten, etc. This is a terrible argument in light of these points, unless you also address and argue against those points (which you did for the latter point later in the video, but the first still remains). Personally i think it simply increases pelvic tilt while you have the shoes on, because iirc muscles wont adaptively shorten unless it was literally constantly in that shortened position, so it is just a visual difference.
And hell, even if it is normal, i think most people trying to “fix” this are doing it at least partly for aesthetics, so simply telling them it is “normal” doesnt settle the issue.
For those that are trying to fix low back pain, i too have been down this “fixing anterior pelvic tilt” road and it did absolutely nothing for it. Switching to barefoot shoes didnt help either. What did was squatting, and i imagine deadlifts would work even better. What really got rid of it for good was a job I had where i would pick up 40lb bags from a palette all day and my low back basically always hurt, but after i quit that job i basically never have low back pain, the only exception being lack of sleep/stress/fatigue. The fact that it is always the low back is still indicitave of some sort of abnormality though, unless you want to propose that humans in general just experience low back pain, and i dont see why that would be an impossibility. Anybody want to interview tribal people about their back pain?
1:35 I’m not saying you’re wrong about this topic at hand, idk. However‘normal’ isn’t inherently good. Most people, especially people over 40, have mobility issues. Most are not fit. Most don’t live past 80
14:44 Thought this too: Why is he moving his spine and then saying the glute doesn't work as much as wanted in this movement (as a pseudo-argument)?
Yeah, obviously it doesn't, because the glute max's mostly a hip-mover. Bunch of bullcrap.
Thanks for the mostly objective breakdown.
Strong greetings
Stavros
Tight hipflexors inhibits the glutes. You have to remember ben isn't a physical therapist so I don't know why your taking his advice 😂
As physioterapist student (in Czech Republic) and I must say, we have pretty decent health education. AND still... sometimes there are ppl like x which just say nonse from 19th century and i fukin hate it........ like woooow scary disbalances, scary hyperlordosis, scary knee cave and so on. So im happy there are ppl like you. and yes these problems exist, but in like 95% it is just personal anatomy differences
Thanks Ben! Is Stuart Mcgill in Athlean-X category people you are talking about?
Yo, here from the MM community! This was a great video enjoyed the step by step breakdown, and hope loads of people see this vid so they can stop thinking (or telling people) that their broken!
Yyeeah but better safe than sorry.
@ what do you mean?
sprinters have APT??😂noooo they dont, theres a big difference between jesses posture in the video and just an athlete with a big glutes
Agree. Used to buy in to this shit in middle/high school. Athlean x "fixes" mostly damaged me more than fixed anything.
APT may be harmless, but i dont want my pelvis to look like its shifting anteriorly simply because i dont like how it looks, and the fact that it makes my butt and stomach stick out. Especially when the tilt is so extreme like in my case.
So although you dont consider it a problem I do, and would really appreciate it if you could provide a solution
APT is not only harmless, it how most of our bodies look, and it is also very functional
AND you cannot fix something that is tied to your genetic structure
@@kapoioBCSits not genetic in my case, it got extreme because of my prolonged sitting and stomach sleeping
@@drtay_then it’s definitely possible to reduce the extremity
Hi just wanted to ask if having a butt wink while doing squats is as bad as ppl say it is???
there are a lot of random claims videos about posture on YT, people would benefit from more of these
Shout out to anterior pelvic tilt. 85% of my homies love anterior pelvic tilt.
Yes, we need more videos like this. Enough of this nonsense ideas invented to create problems. They make cripples out of healthy people. They stigmatize them. Im tired of these fitness influ
If Jeff's tone didn't sound like scolding from a weird stepdad, it'd be slightly less egregious.
A lot of autistics have anterior pelvic tilt in addition to hypotonia.
Yes,
Based video
Pole position
If 80% of the population were morbidly obese or diabetic we'd just describe that as 'normal'?
Nice straw man
Well, TECHNICALLY yes, but "normal" doesn't mean "good"
So, you really think you’re saying something with this analogy, right? 😂
If you lived in America, yes.
Hmm, that sounds reasonable, but... what if my belly sticks out too much? It looks like I'm fat, even though I'm probably around 12% of BF.
Don't know about your specific situation and circumstances, but doing exercises for the TVA-muscle (transversus abdominis) has helped me with this.
Not to walk around all day with a "vacuum pose", but to create awareness for this movement/position of having the belly not hang out as much.
Strong greetings
Stavros
86% of the US population is overweight or obese. is it normal? in your line of thinking: YEZZZ.
LOOOL you are nothing but jealous, bro !!!!!
Of course it can be fixed. even in 3 steps. Assomeone else labels it: always think muscle.
It is a mixture of weakness and bad habits/missing body awareness.
Your reaction to Jeff's video : making me unsubscribe
Athlean-X ( aka Jeff Calvilear), is a joke!
Dude, APT is a legit problem and can cause spinal issues if not dealt with properly.. while what he says about 'fixing' is a bit of stretch to some degree, the advice isn't all that bad.. some food for thought..
what makes it a legit problem?
The video is 23 minutes and it was posted 22 minutes ago. You commented 4 minutes ago. Did you watch the video on 2x?
You will get no reply because people make claims without having good arguments for it@@The_Modern_Meathead
@@goncalocarvalho4626 these kinds of vague comments are generally made by people who have not watched the video. xD
Watched it for 16 minutes plus.. then I couldn't anymore.. but take what you want from it.. your argument on being 'vague' was lifted from your own video, at the 10 minute mark.. so yes, watched it.. my 2 cents, that's all.. you don't have to like it or agree with it.. just like I didn't agree with Ben, for once actually..
Please if it were for Athlean-x we are all blinking wrong and hurting our eyes
I have spent 40 years building a pretty good natural body using nothing but biology. Never paid too much attention to the Bro-Science back in the day and pay less attention to the "science" of today. Learn muscles path and listen your how your body's response. We are all very individual when it comes to building muscle.