Zero-interest loans? This is how it is possible; Islamic Finance explained - Ibrahim Khan
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Islamic banking prohibits interest on loans, said Ibrahim Khan, Co-Founder of IslamicFinanceGuru and Partner at Cur8 Capital. He explained how Islamic banking works, as well as how Islamic law views stocks, bonds, gold, and cryptocurrencies. He spoke with David Lin, Anchor and Producer at Kitco News.
Cur8 Capital: cur8.capital/home
Follow David Lin on Twitter: @davidlin_TV ( / davidlin_tv )
Follow Kitco News on Twitter: @KitcoNewsNOW ( / kitconewsnow )
Follow IslamicFinanceGuru on Twitter: @IFGuru ( / ifguru )
0:00 - What is Islamic Finance?
6:54 - Consumer credit
9:17 - Islamic mortgages
13:40 - Trading and Derivatives
15:27 - Levered buyouts
16:52 - Geography of Islamic banking
19:15 - Economic growth under Islamic finance
22:15 - Assets
26:26 - Islamic central banking
29:13 - Cur8 Capital
#banking #investing #finance
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Slightly unfortunate that his T-Shirt seems to read failure!
But on a serious note I think the whole idea behind not charging interest is to ensure the one who has no money can get fair access to loans or enter into business without becoming a debt slave to the one who does have money. We in the West are debt slaves, it's ingrained into the system and that's part of the reason why the rich get richer every year and the poor get poorer.
Exactly!
👏
You can't complain about being a debt slave by VOLUNTARILY taking someones money then complaining you have to pay it back with interest. Interest is the most moral system of all. You want to use someones money for free??
@@subarcticelectronic9885 The way I see it there is no problem. the west has no problem as far as I see. Private businesses and individuals can lend to people and borrow as much as you want but when it comes time to pay you are on your own. The only problem I see if there is one is the government sticking their idiot noses to steal from one responsible person to bail out an idiot. Government debt is the only real problem. that causes inflation, and real pain.
T-shirt says 'Failures not an option' Just so you know.
Interestingly, usury was banned not only in Islamic banking but also the Catholic Church considered usury a sin, and even in ancient Greece and Rome it was outlawed. Interesting also how it is now rife in western countries since the turn of the 20th century, is it not?
Islamic banking is essentially God's system. The non interest system is common amongst all abrahamic faiths. It's desogned to keep everyone in equal playing fields. The first group of ppl I believe to introduce interest were the knights Templars. Successfully creating today's banking system. Designed to keep the rich wealthy and the rest poor. An enslavement system.
It is permitted in Judaism and this is where the stereotype of the bankers being Jewish came from. For centuries Christians used Jews as the intermediary to charge interest without getting their own hands dirty.
So it INTREST, but with extra steps.
We front load interest, but call it a Muslim word.
its all about the risk and ownership, this guy explains it pretty easily...
This only works if gold and silver are money, because their purchasing power increases in a free market. So, 0% interest can only work if the purchasing power of the money increases over time. This can't work with inflationary paper or central bank digital currencies, because they will always be debased.
Bitcoin
@@jlongestever Bitcoin is a digital token. A free market money must be a commodity first. Its commodity price becomes its money price. A market money must have non-monetary utility *first*, else it can never arise as money to start. See Mises' Regression Theorem of Money.
Yes. It's difficult to work this within a Jewish financial system
@@mcata3625 "Jewish" Okay, anti-semite. The school of economics that advocates a gold and silver based monetary system is the Austrian School. The leading figures in that school are all Jewish. If we had gold and silver money that gains in purchasing power over time, then 0% interest rates are possible.
That's actually accurate. Gold and Silver are the main currencies in Islamic practice.
Very interesting presentation and straightforward answering of the questions. Terrific diplomatic and respectful questions by David. Most informative.
why not invite Harris Irfan or Safdar Alam for a holistic re-run on the topic? our problem in Islamic finance starts with the definition of currency itself.
Semantics.
I will not loan you the money at 25% interest but I will mark up the item 25% and sell it to you.. It's the same thing....
And if all of the penalties and interests go to charities there is no reason to loan money. I guess I just do not understand.
You definitely don't.
U'r right ✅️
Agreeing a fixed fee upfront is totally different to paying interest that is often variable and unknown. Technicalities make all the difference.
I am super impressed by Kitco. I’ve heard of this decades ago yet no one ever covered it. it’s an interesting method of finance. Not saying I would use it, but it’s good learning about other cultures of finance. We can all take a page from each other
Sounds like just semantics.
and you sound just like a common anti human
Instead of interest, you need to give up two goats. There may also be "service fees" that magically work out to the same amount as the interest would be 🙃
Agreed, interest is a natural occurring part of lending. It's basically the "price" of borrowing.
Nice try, but nope. The 'fee' for any loan from a non usury bank is considerably less than the scandalous interest charges of usury.
@@tonebonetones there's no such thing as usury. It's just an idea that dumb people made up.
Best thing about islamic finance is that gold is money and gouvernement has no involvement in money whatsoever
instead we have yewish finance
Obviously "islamic fincance" is not applied in islamic countries ...that is why most muslim countries are failed states (unless they have a lot of crude oil to sell). Turkey 80% inflation ... Libanon, Iraq, Syria, Somalia ... failed states all over the place ... "islamic banking" might be sound ... but the faschist ideology (Quoran aka Islam) behind it - is not sound at all.
The recent actions of Turkey’s government has proven your statement incorrect.
@@pentoo988 hmmm has Turkey now a normal inflation rate of 2% ... I have not heard that - so far. They have a fanatic government (ie a Turkish pop singer was arrested for making a joke about religious schools). Turkey might not have "islamic banking" .... but I doubt that "islamic banking" is superiour to other forms of "banking" .... because everywhere where "islam" is involved there is corruption.
So many hate comments. No one is forcing y'all to adopt it. lol. He is just explaining how it works.
This show’s how open minded people we have lol..can’t think financial system without interest..fiat system corrupted and brain washed
I know, right? I thought it was interesting.
Well explained. Thanks!
fucking semantics - some say tomato others say tomaato - it's interest in the end
Guess you didn't hear the part where if there is a penalty for late payments, known as compound interest, that money goes to society and not the bank
@@SolomonTheStoryTeller No he heard it but it doesn't make it less ridiculous.
Unfortunately right
@@domjohnson2579 ridiculous when taking compound interest and providing that money to the poor instead of making the banks richer?
Lol explain how it's interest?.
Back door interest and calling it Islamic is a sin.
Great topic! 😄 Happy you guys did this
So is "proof of stake" allowed in Islamic banking or is it only "proof of work" ?
🤣
Proof of stake payments are transaction fees for authorizing a block. Its not a loan
Proof of capital
In Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, Antonio lends money on a similar basis.
the objective of the islamic position on interest is to prevent the needy of being abused with high interest rates from the more well off. It is very debatable if the interest we commonly know today, like bank mortgages, is the same type of interest that was concerned by the original islamic negative view on interest. religion is there to make life easier, not harder.
Islamic finance banking is the best model for the finance today system to avoid the interest that burdens the people financial needs and avoid them fall in interest black hole and this this work also for international finance systems
If the borrower defaults, under Sharia law and ISIS rules, is the penalty a beheading or hands chopping?
I believe it is actually. I doubt any lovers will admit it though.
ISIS rules are set by CIA and people like you
Nobody knows BUT something from your body will be missing 😜😜
😂
...yes, the quran says that, too
Basically like scalping. Buying something and selling it for higher price without adding any value.
Very interesting thank you for having this interview almost apples for apples but with a little twist
EU banking system must be all sharia then, ECB has been running negative rates for years
It seems like the Islamic bank business model is needlessly complex, despite its end goal virtues. The examples of the pencil and rents come to mind.
Its basically just equity financing. Not really any more complex than bonds.
@@craigthebrute7929 It's ridiculously complex compared to borrowing $10,000 with a 5% loan
@@888strummer OK, attracting venture capital is a little more complex than selling a bond. At least the economy is immune from the boom bust credit cycle.
@@craigthebrute7929 Our boom bust is horrible, but so is the Federal Reserve who is so clueless and helps to cause many of these boom/busts.
Have you ever read through the conditions and terms for a "regular" credit?
Imagine reading a book that was written thousands of years ago by an uknown author, then choose to live your life by this book, MINDBLOWING.
The interest rate is the cause of many economic crisis, performance failures, and suffering for most segments of workers and professionals. Islam promotes and values income that is resulting from useful work, and offers reward commensurate to effort coupled with a well calculated risk taking, and responsible behaviour at both the private, social, and public interest levels. That is why it prohibits receiving money on money just by counting time, and rating the risk of the borrower, without exposing the lender to the operational risk of the business it has financed, or invested in. The Islamic finance aimes at rendering all the stakeholders in a specific project or transaction to be responsible for its outcome. Which is an incentive to maximise management care and efficiency, and ensure an equitable distribution of risk and its utmost mitigation.
10 dollar pencils? What kind of hyper inflation you got going on in your country?
he just gave u a example...i think u were sleeping lol....
He's in UK
I bet if there was some checking done they would find a lot of corruption.
More than anywhere else though? Corruption is a global problem.
@@sarchmaster5779 corruption is a human problem
Judaism pre dates Islam. It is written in the Torah that loans to family members cannot be charged interest. I do not think that the principles from non democratic countries should be applied to the greatest democratic nation in history. Stop adopting or even being interested in this. Should we also all don burkas and eat halal ? Maybe our dress code entering the Muslim bank will require such measures.
If Islamic banking works why all Islamic banking sistem is broken
When it comes to loans, Islamic banks are not any different from any other commercial bank. At the end of the day, if you take a loan out of an islamic bank you're going to return the same amount + interest as any other commercial bank.
By the way, you don't have to be a muslim to open an account there. It's just a bank.
True Islamic finance would not operate as such. The "interest" that might be seen. (Ex. You want to buy a car for 20k and the Islamic bank buys it for you but essentially sells it back to you for 25k allowing you to pay it off slowly. They make 5k off the deal) this is a form of business transaction and not interest. "Allah has allowed trade and forbidden interest" (2:275-276).
@@taariqshafie5289 you're describing how interest works. It's the same thing. You're just playing semantics.
@@Chootempaw and you are just playing like a common anti human ''cc'' LOL
@@Chootempaw lmao 🤣. So if you took a car loan out at 20k with 6% interest over 5 years that would equate to roughly 6k in interest. Now if you decided not to pay and you had 15k left on the loan that payment is increasing 6% everytime you don't pay it. In Islamic finance that doesn't happen.
@@taariqshafie5289 Not true according to the speaker, there is a penalty but it is given to charity.
I get it... in Sharia compliant non-interest loans, the government gets the interest for its special interest groups. Thanks for clearing that non-interest system up for us.
Exactly, socialism
@@Al-yu6bq yup this shit product ain gon work in western capitalist societies. Ban these socialist religious products from US and EU markets.
Wrong! Government is there to be a referee in a free market system under Islamic sharia economy
For clarification. That was just his opinion. In an Islamic State, the Government will never take any type of interest. That is fundamental.
@@Al-yu6bq Not at all.
This aren't "Islamic" concepts. Islam is way to new to claim these ancient norms. These just run contrary to the jew model that's eaten up the broader world economic system with it's countless forms of usury and bait and switch tactics. Mercantilism (as opposed to capitalism) as well as the School of Salamanca's economic model used by the whole Catholic world (before the judeo/protestant influences gained control) which gave way to Austrian economics reflects this.
Butthurt?
Islam is not claiming anything. It aims at a fair and responsible socio economic system, and guidance is taken from the Qur'an.
bingo!
@@mcata3625 can't see why it would hurt when the fellow is right on the money here...islamic finance is not a revolutionary idea, Vedic laws prohibited usury well before christianity and islam. Fact.
Short selling banned, I like this
That's why J P Morgan is NOT in the middle East 😜😜
Very much enjoyed this interview. I’ve been to Egypt, DUBAI and ABU DHABI. MasterCard and Visa credit cards are used everywhere in the UAE, but not so much in Egypt. Thanks for this guest interview!
Hold gold and silver and be your own bank
Islamic system sounds like honest banking. There should be one in every country.
It isn’t even practiced in one of the Muslim countries. How do you expect to see it in any country lol
Is this still riba in another guise or is the finance really sharia compliant? Not so sure.
Interesting info. First time I ever heard of this
How about looking into the Jewish loan system? They had a slightly different take that might be better with their year of jubilee having some form of debt forgiveness.
The west already adopted the Jewish loan system centuries ago!
@@travissmith8017 Incorrect. The original old testament one had loan forgiveness built in every seventh year, and then something special every 50 IIRC.
@@carrotscarrots4life Many of those rules/statues dictated how jews treated each other, and didn't apply to gentiles. There are plenty of examples of this in the Talmud.
@@travissmith8017 That sounds about right. So it would be good to have a look at that system as well. If needed it could apply to a nation, and not international lending, but if someone is going to look at the Islamic lending system, then it would be good to compare to the original Jewish one as well.
The problem is where do these Islamic financial institutions get their original reserve from? Federal Reserve or interbank lending?
This form of lending is worse than a traditional loan because if you decide to pay off your loan early in traditional lending the rest of the interest owed is dropped, however in Islamic banking if your loan period is 10 years and you pay it off in 5, you still have to pay the full amount.
Not necessarily, you need to look at the terms agreed. Terms vary depending on the retail product you bought. We don't have the problem you mention in the West. A large minority of people cannot afford their loans and debts, are perpetually in debt, let alone pay off things early.
@@bodrulm1 I live in an Islamic country, and all Islamic banks deal with loans the same way. For example, if I borrow 10,000, after 10 years I am expected to pay back 15,000. Whether I pay it back in 2 years or 10 it won’t make a difference. However with non-Islamic banks here, if I borrow 10,000 and I am estimated to pay back with interest 15,000 after 10 years. If I pay it back in 5, I only pay back 12,500. Again just an example but this is exactly how it works. In Islamic banking the amount you pay back is measured in the interest rate, but by using a loophole as to not call it interest, the amount you pay back will always be the amount that you agreed to pay back when you sign agreement.
@@elsenormish Thank you for this clarification. I was not aware if it.
Exactly. Po-tato Pot-ato. Fair value is exactly the same but it just sounds so much worse for retail clients.
Islam adds up the loan and the interest of the loan for the time period of the loan and divides it into monthly payments and voila! they now boast "no interest" loans. It takes a special kind of mind to be proud of that kind of financing!
Not really. Equity financing means the investor stands to lose everything with no recourse to compensation if the underlying venture fails. That is not the case for a interest yielding bond, the bond must be paid regardless of the success of the venture.
It appears Islamic financing and Islamic loans would solve a lot of the world's social and economic problems. Great interview Kitco!
Yeah look at all these flourishing Islamic countries!!!
Nice 👍
But I need to buy a purdy camel...ok ok I'll settle for a goat.
Subtitle plz
Do they go to jail if they don't pay the loan back...
thats a good question
in the Islamic world, you not only go to jail but also get lashed, in harsh cases, they are executed in Public or if you're a woman, stone you to death.
An example with buying a house would help
Good interview but no CC
Will it blow up like Celsius 🤔🤔🤔
Years ago I got quite an education listening to a British gentleman named Muhammad Rafeeq. Don’t know whatever happened to him.
Aside from BTC & ETH, interesting that HBAR & FIL were at the forefront of his example. 😏
If you borrow ALL the money + interest, you can never pay it back unless you print. Halal finance ends the inflationary growth of the money supply/ money becomes deflationary
Just use God's money instead of the inventions of men
5 dollars for a pencil is quite high of a price, no wonder why everyone is broke except for the guy that owns the pencil company
See any trees in the desert?? They save money on oil $5 fills up your car.
He is not Arabic Mr. Greg.
too many people do not pay, chop off heads
Whats next? Kitco charged with fraud when Gensler wakes up
We have Jewish finance in the U.S.
So basically it's the same game of swaps with current yields and yields to maturity.
someone gets it...
exactly ,, its only different terms 🤣🤣🤣
actually no the main goal here is risk management mutual risk sharing you have to pay interest even you broke but thats not the case in rent
Do women need permission from their husbands to bank?
No, the wifes finances are independent from her husband. But she cannot work without permission from her husband.
@@craigthebrute7929 that is complete nonsense, in Islam womxn doesn't need permission from husband to work.
Seattle has a Islamic bank.....or used too just a few years ago . You don't have to be Islamic either to bank there .
Uranium up 20% maybe have a conversation about that?
bish better have my oxen
LMFAO
It's a con. The returns are just derived from other means than interest. It is a fudge.
you sound like a con
Hopefully, Allah never watches this video and sees how hard we are working to find loopholes to ignore His wishes and outsmart Him. But hey, it's a "markup" -- not interest -- right? 😉
Don't be disrespectful.
I agree, the deferred markup is just compensation for the time value of the loan same as interest. But riba was really about exploitation - loan sharking,, not modern interest.
Bitcoin has no inflation so requires no interest to chase inflation.
It’s basically formed under the coron’
Co-Ownership of Collateral LOANs..... Mutual Funding aka part ownership of property!!
...they don't charge interest ??? ...no they call it something else, entirely ...something more Islamic (hehe) ...sharia law ??? ...no thanks, I'm good
Just make sure you pay the ‘rent’ and don’t spend all your money at the icecream parlour.
Bismillah insha Allah Affairs
Welcome of Allah Affairs
Why to spend time on something that doesn’t work
chop off fingers if loan is not paid
Like any other silly made up semitic beliefs. How about the good ol Jew law where it's ok to take loans with interest from non Jews?
Exactly
with rpg?
Late fee is given to a charity that doesn't mean it is not interest, Shame on these people who play with the name of religion. No Islamic finance is 100% Islamic.
Banking of future
we call that mortgage
I need 2 lk without i pay interest
Excellent show David, Glad that you chooses this topic
Dors one have to be a Muslim to conduct business with an Islamic bank?
Dont think so. There are some islamic banks in Turkey and have never heard they ask you to be muslim to conduct business.
Btw, Who really knows your religion ? :) ın some countries i know religion is written on ID but in some it doesnt, therefore your belief is between you and the other one :)
No wonder they and the you know who don't get along.
Islam is the solution ❤️
BASED
Nope
Salman Rushdie actually proved that to be wrong with that book he wrote.
I dont see millions of refugees moving into Saudi, Iran, Afghanistan and Pak.
Based.
Based = I agree w this
I'm a Christian, & I can't stand money changers🙏✌️🙏
That’s why Jesus loves Bitcoin. Honest weights and measures
@@JimJamJuicy no he didn't, in the Bible it clearly days "Let there be Monero - the secure, private, untraceable currency".
Kind of a stretch to call it Islamic banking
I would have to disagree that SA cares about Islam when it is Wahhabism
There is a saying about letting thecamels nose under the tent....
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISLAMIC BANKING as long as the money used is FIAT MONEY.
Same meat different gravy
In the UK lol
“islamic finance is a system of finance that AFFECTS many systems around the world.. “ 😂 those poor muslims paying no interest, how do they live with this affliction??
This perfectly explains the flaws of religion
Islamic religion. Fixed it for you.
All I hear is rhetoric
Zero interest loans, but if you fail to pay back in full, you get your hands chopped off.
LOL i dont think thats correct
Common mistake in prejudice...
@@goldenman85
Big time prejudice against satanic sharia law.
Contractual acrobatics. Please be careful.
🤣🤣🤣
Basically it sucks haha problematic = they chop your hands off in the night
But slavery, incest and forced marriage is ok, just dont call it interest and we're all good.
You will always be a close minded with your bigotry….. rather than asking questions concerning this particular video
✅️
Saudi can stop oils trade in US $ after 9/11 next month
Said who?
Islamic Finance is why the Turkish Lira is getting destroyed. Good luck with that.
Very poorly explained 😪 but may god bless hem for him for his efforts