Coupling Cap Tone Comparison

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  • Опубліковано 20 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 69

  • @Shiny-Beast
    @Shiny-Beast 7 днів тому +1

    Surprised I heard a difference with just 2 caps, and at that am also surprised the last 3 lined up with my expectations.

  • @jonathanhorne6503
    @jonathanhorne6503 Рік тому +15

    What I think this proves is in a healthy amp, ie no leaking coupling caps, any one will work admirably. In a guitar amp a 75 cent Mallory 150 works as well as as a $10 Jupiter.

    • @planker
      @planker Рік тому

      If your coupling caps leak it will wreak your amp. Couplers rarely leak, they are not subject to trauma like filters in the power supply, and we know what happens when those fail. Get your parts from the correct place, Not China, Not Ebay. The yellow ones will work just fine.

    • @MrDiscomfortzone
      @MrDiscomfortzone 7 місяців тому +1

      @@planker You're right, and I proved it recently by performing frequency response measurements on five guitar tone caps ranging in cost from $1.25 to $28.00. All were the same value, .022 uF. I applied a signal through a 250 k pot, simulating a guitar tone control, and used a scope to measure the losses through the cap. Frequency range was 60 Hz to 3.5 kHz. All five caps had identical responses. Conclusion: additional cost doesn't provide better performance. And never change a good cap in hopes of better tone.

    • @kellendugan1828
      @kellendugan1828 Місяць тому

      I'm a Jupiter fiend and I'm officially upset by this vid bro 😅

  • @cuinoz3569
    @cuinoz3569 22 дні тому +1

    Another excellent video. Appreciate your time.

  • @kevingwin2729
    @kevingwin2729 Місяць тому +1

    I did this experiment with 2 5 position rotary switches with Mallory, Orange drops, all the way up to Jensen foil in oil caps. The amp was an el84 strapped to triode mode. 2 gain stages and no tone control. Everyone who blind tested found either the cheapest Mallory or the most expensive Jensen caps sounded the beat. 1$ verses 35$.

  • @giulioluzzardi7632
    @giulioluzzardi7632 Рік тому +2

    Your right, every nut, bolt screw, cap, resistor, wire, valve, speaker and even the solder and pots make a difference. It has to be trial and error and if you are going to buy a new/used amp try to test it with your own Guitar or at-least as close as you csn get. Thanks.

  • @haytguugle8656
    @haytguugle8656 Рік тому +2

    Enjoyed this experiment. But I did notice the omission of ceramic disc caps.
    I don't use them for coupling caps. But I have heard some builders insist on them to achieve a more "vintage" tone.
    In a head-to-head comparison like this one, it would have been nice to have had them in there too.
    As you noted, there is more going on in the "organic" nature of tube amps. They can seem temperamental at times and not always give the same response. Part of that has to do with how interactive ALL the components are in the totality of the circuit. Changing one cap or resistor can sometimes make a huge difference in what we hear coming out of the speaker. But it's not really the change of that component that is making the difference. It is about how that changed component is now interacting with the other components that haven't been changed. Tube amps really are finicky, frustrating, fascinating and fun little beasts!
    Thanks for this video. 🙂

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  Рік тому +1

      I didn’t even think of trying ceramic caps.

    • @haytguugle8656
      @haytguugle8656 Рік тому

      @@aphekrecordingstudio4274
      Understood.
      I guess they are very much OLD, old school for coupling caps in our time - maybe even as-much-as passe'. They can offer a few serious unwanted issues, yet there are some "vintage" lovers who might insist that they are legit simply because they were what was used decades ago - even though the most likely reason they were chosen had way more to do with how cheap they were compared to others rather than as a tonal intent. No problem. Was just curious.
      🙂

  • @giulioluzzardi7632
    @giulioluzzardi7632 5 місяців тому +2

    " If it ain't broke, don't fix it", I wish I would listen to my own advice. I had a Strat sounding nice and springy and bold with a Lunear 250kk and a wima .01 and a Yellow Mallory .022uf ( my brain said" leave it alone") but after watching too many vids I got a audio taper and a silver paper in oil(Wires were v. Flimsy)and it sounded horrid. I tried various other caps but no joy. I realised it was the Potentiometer that seemed to thin the sound out. Found a Wima .047 and a CTS linear and almost as good as that 1st set-up. You have to bond with your instrument/amp and in my case I learned the hard way. Linear for tone, Audio for vol or whatever works for you.

  • @kellendugan1828
    @kellendugan1828 Місяць тому +1

    Great vid bro.

  • @bobdillon1138
    @bobdillon1138 Рік тому +1

    Been there done that to my surprise i preferred the 716p it provided more clarity when
    amp is overdriven chords are a lot clearer and crisper not as woolly as others.

  • @cgavin1
    @cgavin1 Рік тому +2

    I just built a tweed 5F2A out of junk I had in the drawer. Old 1000v Sprague couplers from the 80's and a mixture of metal oxide, carbon film, and carbon comps from the last century. It sounds amazing. Every bit as good as my vintage amps with the "mojo". IMHO the single biggest differences perceptibly, are between things like using class two ceramics instead of films in the tone stack and the size of any cathode bypass capacitors. Those two things alone made more impact than coupling caps.. Nos 6V6GT's sounds better to my ears too (and can be had cheap). I like the Brimars!

  • @Cpt_Adama
    @Cpt_Adama 2 роки тому +5

    With a 20% tolerance value in capacitors, the values need to be measured to find two that are within 1% of each other to make the comparison accurate.

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  2 роки тому

      They’d all need to be the exact same value to be completely accurate. This gives a fair idea though.

    • @LeviBulger
      @LeviBulger Рік тому +4

      Exactly. Different brands that are made with the same materials and are within 1% of each other will sound virtually identical every time. The only real difference capacitors can make other than differing in capacitance values is their construction. But as far as electrolytics are concerned, it's such a waste of time and money to "roll" caps for tonal purposes. The most significant changes are where the filters are at. I wouldn't bother with anything else. Any tonal differences heard in this video is almost certainly due to capacitance and material differences. Not the brand name. The signal doesn't care about brand but will change if the math/equation is changed.

  • @kbkman7742
    @kbkman7742 Рік тому +1

    I thought I heard a difference in #3 and #8.
    I think the difference is more or less apparent depending on where in the circuit you use them. I have done this sort of test in a blackface fender and a trainwreck type build, and in some positions there is a very tangible and noticeable difference. While measuring capacitance to ensure values are identical. The biggest difference will be changing between construction styles, so if you swap an old ceramic coupling cap for a poly film for eg you will notice a change in character right away.

    • @haytguugle8656
      @haytguugle8656 Рік тому

      Agreed. It is also important to actually measure the true value of the caps you are comparing or swapping. At times, I've gone through quite a few of "exactly" the same caps (same with resistors) to find that the value printed on the outside was different enough from another that they did actually perform differently - not huge. But guitar players are often just as sensitive to the 'feel' of the sound as the are to what they hear.

  • @dparham
    @dparham 5 місяців тому +1

    Nice Video... Im building a Deluxe Reverb and im mixing Jupiter Yellow Vintage with blue sozos on the .047 coupling side manually because I didnt find .047 in yellow.. I could have used .05 but if quality control on these brands are true to tolerances I wanted to start out with correct values that show in schematic as I could get for baseline...

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  5 місяців тому

      The values never seem to be totally accurate, which is vintage correct. 😇 I wouldn’t worry about that small of a difference, although it definitely doesn’t hurt.

    • @dparham
      @dparham 5 місяців тому +1

      @@aphekrecordingstudio4274 also the yellows and blues look good together! lol I do have a copper foil on wax paper ( probably for wifi) jupiter cap for the .022uf bt 600v but maybe thats not best for that one spot... i do have a jupiter .02uf I could put in to match but we will see how that works out lol maybe too hifi? maybe no effect ?

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  5 місяців тому +1

      @@dparham You’re as bad as me! Choosing caps because they look good. 😊All you can really do is try them and see what you like.

    • @dparham
      @dparham 5 місяців тому +1

      @@aphekrecordingstudio4274 yup! I like a god lookin amp! lol

  • @svbarr
    @svbarr Рік тому +1

    9 and 3 were my faves.

  • @wh0tube
    @wh0tube 28 днів тому

    Those Suntan caps, if infused with Pseudonaja textilis lipid filtered down to 5 micron, sonically outperforms capacitors 50 times its price!

  • @sledge776
    @sledge776 Рік тому

    Close your eyes and listen all the way through, then listen with your eyes watching the screen. That tells you what is really changing.

  • @rfcustom327
    @rfcustom327 Рік тому

    the perfect, yet equally luxurious companion will be if you include the Mojo Dijon, Vishay 1813 and Panasonic ECQ-E tops in the video. You'd be practically analyzing the most debated ones!

  • @vmc37
    @vmc37 2 роки тому +2

    Impossible with just 2 coupling caps to hear much difference. Perhaps a different feel for the player? Maybe in a Marshall or bassman circuit there would be audible difference. As you say.

  • @GIBKEL
    @GIBKEL 9 місяців тому

    Any noticeable change with volume and gain either through goosing it up or a good boost/fuzz/overdrive? Definitely some differences.

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  9 місяців тому

      I didn’t try that. Only what’s in the video. Enough examples to wade through as it was. 😁

    • @GIBKEL
      @GIBKEL 9 місяців тому +1

      @@aphekrecordingstudio4274 I was curious. I definitely heard differences that either would have cut the head off or delighted the fuzzy bones. Very interesting. Love this kind of sonic exploration! Cheers and a big sonic thanks. Report back from the field my good man!

  • @BourneAccident
    @BourneAccident Рік тому

    Out of the nine.... I got both oil caps correct, but just guessed at the others. My favorite was the Jupiter Yellow Mustard. Don't know why.

  • @rickschiller
    @rickschiller Рік тому +1

    A clean tone or two would have helped greatly to differentiate. Thses all sound virtually the same except the 715s OJ and the Suntan's perhaps a bit less "organic." Why anyone would spend 5x or 6x times more for Mallory 150s is beyond me unless they like the way the more expensive caps look.

  • @bradt.3555
    @bradt.3555 11 місяців тому +1

    I also wonder if the caps were measured to make sure they were the same value. 10% of .022 is .0022, thats 2200 pico farads. 100 pico farads can easily make a difference is tone. If 1 cap is 10 over and another 10 under thats 20%!!! Many of the 10% caps I measure are as much as 15% off. Even many of the 5% micas I measure don't meet the spec.

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  11 місяців тому +1

      Definitely. I was surprised to find the higher values didn’t necessarily sound darker or let through more lows though.

    • @bradt.3555
      @bradt.3555 10 місяців тому

      @@aphekrecordingstudio4274 Well you have other limiting factors. Low freq. range of a guitar, and very much the low range of the speaker. Look at how stiff a guitar spkr cone is compared to a Hi-Fi woofer. By the time you get to .022 mf you've reached the low limit so yea going to a .047 mf you probably won't hear.

    • @dloorkour1256
      @dloorkour1256 9 місяців тому +1

      Another variable: caps can be microphonic.

    • @bradt.3555
      @bradt.3555 9 місяців тому

      @@dloorkour1256Yea, but in the 50 yrs I've been working on electronics I haven't found many or to a degree that has any noticeable effect.

  • @qddk9545
    @qddk9545 11 місяців тому

    There are subtle differences, I don´t care much for the Mallory´s. Another thing is parallel caps on guitar tone controls, they just bypass the treble and make no difference at all to me.

  • @bradt.3555
    @bradt.3555 11 місяців тому +1

    The one thing none of these listening tests seem to take into account is placebo effect or expectation bias and that our auditory memory is only about a second or two. Even in a test like this where u have one after another by the time you get to #3 your brain has lost the tone of #1. If you have to go back and forth listening then anything you hear is going to be placebo, unless of course it's a huge difference where there's no question. Like when comparing different values of components. Main thing with caps is just get good quality that will be in tolerance and last. When I first saw bumblebee reissues for a hundred bucks or so a pair I almost LMAO. If you wanna spend that for a vintage correct look OK but they sound no different from a good regular cap. And you have to measure the caps to ensure they are exactly the same value, just 10% difference can affect tone.

    • @luminousfractal420
      @luminousfractal420 10 місяців тому

      O i dont know about that 2 seconds thing. My memories with sound are stronger than any others. I can still replay conversations from years ago and hear the tones and subtleties.
      Probably why im so annoyed at bad sound, it feels like im only getting half of it. Like cataracts for the ears. Just want that clean vision.

  • @johnnyallen843
    @johnnyallen843 5 місяців тому

    I assume you checked the caps to find the outer foil lead and connected that to the lower impedance point in the circuit or ground when necessary?

  • @Turboy65
    @Turboy65 9 місяців тому +1

    Do a full Bode plot of the circuit with every capacitor after measuring the exact value of all of them. If the values are identical, the Bode plots, and thus the frequency response, will be identical. Caps are caps, they sound the same if the value is the same. Test equipment that is far more discriminating than your ears just confirms this.

    • @MrDiscomfortzone
      @MrDiscomfortzone 8 місяців тому +2

      I'm with you. Those who haven't studied electronics are being sold snake oil. I just ran tests on most of the caps shown in this video. One test was reactance to sine waves over a typical guitar frequency range, and the other was pulse response to square wave of known rise time. There was no difference between a $1.50 Mallory and a $28.00 Emerson paper-in-oil "tone cap." Ears and emotions will deceive you, but test instruments reveal the truth.

    • @rapidsqualor5367
      @rapidsqualor5367 7 місяців тому

      How much does the output transformer affect the tone ? Is a Mercury that much better than a Heyboer or $20 generic ? Or is it more about the sizing/measurements of the transformer that matter ?

  • @luminousfractal420
    @luminousfractal420 10 місяців тому +1

    When they're so bad you can hear it on a cell phone 😂 couple of those were horrible.

  • @ianaintsaying1625
    @ianaintsaying1625 7 місяців тому +2

    IC caps are the worst. Especially their lytic caps. They leak and fail prematurely all the time.

    • @giulioluzzardi7632
      @giulioluzzardi7632 6 місяців тому

      IC makes really good quality stuff it's just that the big builders are looking and counting every bean so IC gives them what want but they are able to compete on every level of quality.

  • @tomcurrie7249
    @tomcurrie7249 Рік тому +7

    They all sound the same

    • @eggshellskullrule7971
      @eggshellskullrule7971 Рік тому +2

      They all make indistinguishable sound.

    • @julesl6910
      @julesl6910 7 місяців тому

      Here the correct comment is. They all sound identical.

  • @pavure
    @pavure Рік тому +4

    I'd rather replace my old strings.

  • @bradt.3555
    @bradt.3555 Рік тому +3

    Sounded the same, as should be expected. If you understand how nothing actually passes thru a cap you'll get it. they charge and dis-charge. There is no connection between the leads so no current ever flows "thru" them. Guitarists need to learn about placebo, audiophiles have but still totally deny it. Our ears are really the worst for a true representation.

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  Рік тому +2

      That’s why I did the test. To hear what, if any difference there was.

    • @qddk9545
      @qddk9545 11 місяців тому +1

      It is such a stupid discussion, I know the sound is capacitively coupled, but it comes in at one end and out of the other, so it actually does pass thru the cap.

    • @bradt.3555
      @bradt.3555 11 місяців тому +1

      @@qddk9545 That's not how it works.You do realize the two leads of a cap are insulated from each other by the dielectric. This means electrons cannot pass from one lead to the other.when it charges electrons accumulate on one plate and are depleated on the other, then it dis charges and re charges the other direction. That's what causes signal to flow in the circuit, but it does not pass thru the cap. If it did it would be shorted and defective. The signal that comes in the input jack is not the same signal that goes to the speakers, it's a recreation of it, made from the dc voltage from the power supply.

    • @bradt.3555
      @bradt.3555 11 місяців тому

      @@qddk9545 I'm not just trying to argue, I'm just trying to explain how this stuff works without giving a in depth electronics course.

    • @qddk9545
      @qddk9545 11 місяців тому +1

      @@bradt.3555 I have seen this discussion hundreds of times. You can´t argue: The tone comes in, the tones come out. How it works does not matter at all in a tone test.

  • @ludmilascoles1195
    @ludmilascoles1195 Рік тому +1

    Bullocks you erars can't tell the difference 😂

  • @subramaniamchandrasekar1397
    @subramaniamchandrasekar1397 11 місяців тому +1

    Coupling cap sound with various capacitance values would be the right way. Where was the coupling capacitor placed in the circuit? There are too many coupling capacitors in a circuit. What you have done has no meaning. I would consider this whole video as a junk made by a non technical person. Regards..

    • @aphekrecordingstudio4274
      @aphekrecordingstudio4274  11 місяців тому

      You clearly didn’t watch the video or don’t understand valve amps, as it was all explained.

  • @Pootycat8359
    @Pootycat8359 Рік тому

    There was no way I could tell. Distorted electric guitars make me cringe. Some scintillating cymbals, or crisp acoustic guitar would have been better. Or a natural, unprocessed human voice...