personally the reason i tend to withdraw when im not doing well is because i really struggle with letting myself be a burden on other people. i understand that carrying each other's burdens is part of a normal relationship and should happen naturally but it feels so much simpler to just not mention it and handle it by myself
you having human needs is not a burden. Sharing emotional labor & other labor is natural you are right. But you having needs & communicating them should not add shame/burden stress. Do what you can sure but find places an people you can share with as you need to
This is me to the t. It's not an easy thing to just stop believing, even if I know perfectly well my feelings are valid and I am as worth of help as I consider others to be. Lately I'm trying to practice self-compassion. It comes really naturally for me to feel compassion for others but it's difficult to do that for myself and allow others to do it without feeling like a burden. Don't give up on yourself, bud. You are worth the effort.
My family has called me a burden for being mentally and chronically ill before. It's an ableist trope, and one we often internalize. Hope you feel well soon ❤
my therapist telling me that my apartment being really messy is morally neutral led to one of my biggest breakthroughs. i stopped waking up every day thinking about how I have to get started on cleaning it and going to bed feeling like a failure for procrastinating all day and instead focused my energy on waking up getting out of bed, going outside, and reading/watching comfort media and I started to feel so much better. the apartment stayed a mess for a while but it no longer bothered me or made me feel like I couldn't do anything before cleaning it, and a few weeks later I felt well enough to tackle it and a relative came over and we cleaned it together
Thank you for sharing this C! ❤ your brave sharing of your experience helped me. I relate to this underlying situation. Your sharing of “morally neutral” is now a key phrase for me. It identifies why I’m getting angrier at my sessions: while trying to be encouraging or acknowledging, my therapist constantly judges and moralizes from an ableist perspective. Her unexpressed trope is “just exercise, retrain your thoughts and be positive so you can fit in the box. Time to find someone else! I hope you’re still discovering how to neutralize others moral judgments, so you can walk your path.
@@indigotulip11 what a lovely reply you made my day 🥹 I hope u find better care soon, you really deserve to have a therapist that understands you and treats you with compassion! the guilt surrounding not being able to do things you feel like you "should" do is such a heavy burden and unfortunately the harder we try to do them the more shame we feel when we end up failing, making the burden heavier and the task even harder to do. it's a downward spiral until you stop judging yourself and give yourself grace. I'm still working on it but I am ineffably grateful to my therapist she has done so much for me
I haven’t finished watching the video so idk if she says in this one too, but Mickey said in another video of her’s that “people don’t do better when they feel worse” and I think that is so true
I told a friend I was going through (another, not my first) depression. That was the ping to assess whether to not I could talk to her about painful things. She told me another friend of hers I had never met was REALLY depressed and she and I should do something nice for HER. This is the type of person who posts on social media for suicide awareness, “If you feel bad, just reach out! I’m here for you!” Girl, you don’t even know when someone IS reaching out, and no you weren’t! We’re no longer friends, but in the last few years I’ve found ones who truly get it and ARE actually there for each other.
I started crying at number 2 because hold on, people have support people that actively reach out and check on us like, huh? No one really cares to check on me so i just kinda go numb and forget how to feel
I hope that you’ve found better supports since you’ve made this comment. I’m sorry that people haven’t been reaching out to you. My friends and I are all in a group chat together so they still contact me through there. You deserve something like thar
I stay away from friends because i dont want to be a debbie downer...i hate being asked how im doing because im not fine or good and i hate having to pretend im good...
I live in a neighborhood full of healthy, active retired people, some much older than me. We have driveway parties in the warmer weather. I like to go, and they kind of know I have "problems", so I make myself go and try to act OK. But I just wish our society had a different greeting , other than the one that everybody seems to have to say to you, and you say it back-- "How are you"-- "Fine, how are you?" It's just a stupid lie that you go through the motions of saying, to be "sociable". They're very nice people, but they're so danged PEPPY.
What hurts and also pisses me off is all the judgement around hygiene, especially from people who claim to care about mental health issues. It happens every time a rich white person says they don’t shower every single day (I’m BIPOC) (I’m glad it’s finally being recognized as partially to do with racial trauma) and the ensuing conversations are so ableist. My self loathing is pretty much always off the charts and my hygiene issues (I’m bipolar 2) are SUCH a struggle (I also have very limiting physical disabilities) and a constant source of self hate. When people talk about how dirty and smelly and disgusting people are who don’t keep up with personal hygiene as much (I’m talking about the body and not messy rooms; the latter is so much more normalized and socially accepted). It is an exact echo of my internal monologue. Physical hygiene issues are like one of the top 5 struggles for people with mental illness and yet, out of the other ones that may be a bit more mild and affect the greater population, this is so maligned. Venting over. Love your channel and videos, as always!
I thankfully have not been questioned about this part of my depression but I know I sound nasty AF saying that I haven't showered in probably a month but I use wipes on and off and had huge knots in my hair on both sides where my glasses literally pull my hair out and dirty and had been finger combed and had my haircut due to all of that. I'm not sure if it helps and I genuinely don't want to come off as offensive and feel free to tell me that, honestly, but maybe you could try baby wipes or Lume deodorant wipes that you can clean EVERYWHERE and it really helps with the stink of sweat and dry shampoo. I hope you find your way into feeling a little better day by day. Good luck!
I can struggle with hygiene too and my therapist recommends things like using baby wipes to wipe down the important areas. Just small things that can be manageable when an entire shower feels overwhelming for me
I often struggle to want to "get better" because it feels like there's then more pain and more to lose if my symptoms get worse, and it feels exhausting to get my hopes up only to remain chronically mentally ill
My reasons for not sharing pain (depression, trauma, otherwise): 1. Met with toxic positivity. 2. Lots of my family members are narcisissts. 3. I have opened up before and deeply regretted it.
I am the reason for number 3 for a person, and I am so sorry for that. I learned. But afterwards. I am trying to get that trust back and try to support effectively again... I hope I will be able to do that...
I lost the entire friendgroup I had for 10+ years when I started down an especially severe (and long-term) depressive episode. I began withdrawing socially... and they let me. These were the people who I loved and cared about most of all on the planet, and who I thought loved and cared for me as well. So for them to let go of me so easily really hurt. In my mind, it only reinforced that feeling you brought up in the first point, of not deserving help. I felt burdensome and unworthy as a person, and therefore not deserving of their friendship... which of course only caused me to withdraw more. I'm basically a hermit with no friends and social life now 🙃
I'm with you on all fronts here. It's hard and I struggle even trying to imagine the possibility of future friendships. Just trying to embrace this being a more solitary season of my life, learning to be a friend to myself (cliché, and quite essential by my estimation), and finding that the living world/"nature" is always ready to welcome me, regardless of how deeply gloomy and burdensome I may feel. It's not easy, but the seasons inevitably change. Love to you, my friend.
Absolutely in the same place as you. Can't maintain friendship, feel really let down by the people who I thought were friends. They'd watch my Instagram stories of me Absolutely spiralling and just keep scrolling. Wouldn't reach out or even react in anyway and that showed me who my friends were. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would have intervened and supported.
The days of not wanting to get better, for me, sometimes relate back to interpersonal trauma. Growing up, such a big thing was made of putting on a smile and pretending everything was fine. My family put a very strong onus on me to not show any distress, to not be authentic about real shit that was happening behind closed doors. And even apart from trauma, it's a societal expectation that is put on us all, to pretend we are fine when we aren't. Sometimes a part of me wants to hold onto feeling shitty, as a sort of expression of the injustices that were going on. I'm sure many of you will be able to relate to this. And it is a scary thing to admit to, but it's just a part of me, and it's not how I feel all the time. Just sometimes. I think if we were encouraged to be inauthentic, there will be parts of us that rile against this.
Oh yes, I feel this. There's also been so many times when I've tried talking to people about how down I was, and they'd just say some trite nonsense like, "just stop thinking that way/think of all the good things in life." It's like all of that invalidation made caused me to feel protective of my depression (and of course less willing to talk about it with anyone).
The first one can be even more extreme. People can feel not only as a burden but as literal poison to people they love. They feel their state will infect the life of other people. The most helpful comment I got in this state was" I have a right to decide for myself whether to take the risk to interact with you. You bear no responsibility in any negative outcome resulting from me being with you. It was my choice."
With number 5 from the depressed person's POV: I find it VERY helpful to phrase "I don't want to get better" as a "I am having a down day and I just want to be sad/upset today" instead, if you are afraid of saying the former. It has similar energy without raising the red flags that'll make people overreact. Even if it doesn't encase the entire feeling, it will still get enough of the point across and give you the chance to ask for space, or to talk and vent if you need that, whatever you need from whoever is asking.
Yeah I definitely need to have the time to “lick my wounds” and feel sorry for myself before I’m ready to be positive in any way when I’m particularly struggling
The way you experience number 2 and 3 are fascinating to me because my reactions to these are switched. I absolutely detest people trying to reach out to me when I'm withdrawing and everyone around me knows that. I'm open about my depression (e.g. how I handle it, what my history is, how I encourage people to treat me during depressive episodes, what my feelings are etc.) because it's chronic and therefore it's going to affect me all my life. When I'm in a rough spot I call it my dying-cat-situation. I'll hide in a dark corner to be left alone until a bad depressive episode is "over". It's not because I don't think I deserve help but because I'm highly irritable and irrationally angry during that stage (I have a good understanding of the reasons for this). No attention from anyone is soothing to me in those moments. Also, I don't want to lash out at the people around me, they don't deserve that at all. It's best not to contact me or talk to me during that time. I'll take care to reach out to people once a dying-cat-situation is over, though. On the other hand, I love people who also experience/have experienced depression to tell me that they get it. I like trauma-sharing and the subsequent jokes that stem from this absurd mental struggle. It's kind of relieving to me in a macabre way. We're in the same bad spot, and it's not fair but also, yeah, it sometimes can be strange/ funny living through it and it's nice to know that we can share that. However, I can definitely understand people experiencing those two points differently and that's absolutely valid and fair.
100%! I get very angry and become very bitter about the people around me and their happiness. I hate it. It isn't me. When I'm not depressed, I'm not like that but when I am, the world can burn. I've learnt that it's best to withdraw because I've lost friendships because of it.
Laziness as a concept is Ableist BS. Giving ppl space & bandwidth to meet each others needs is so important. Taking the time to engage with people you care for while respecting their needs & autonomy does take time but it can make such a difference
I’ve embraced the sloth. They live rightly at their own speed. I’m so burnt out of running around at freeway speed to get the never-ending list done feeling I’ve never done enough, no matter how much or (now mostly) how little (basically because I think my non-rational self is on strike). This, of course, may be an entirely different perspective than yours. What is your perspective? Bottom line, laziness is simply hurtful name-calling. The other thing that helps me, is to “flip the target”. When people verbally point a finger, three fingers point back at themself: whoever call someone else “lazy” is secretly very afraid of being (called) lazy themself - and are saying it inside to themselves. No matter how put together they look, they’re very scared of being found out, although it may be subconscious and they’ll likely vehemently deny it if you bring it up. Anyway, when I can do it, it helps me question the speaker and not take it so personally, it also reminds me that I’m not the only one that may have issues around whatever judge mental, or mean comment others may make I’m still working on this, however, it seems to help and I hope it does for you too.
don't know about others, but another thing i don't tell people: this is as good as it gets. i won't ever be not depressed. only less. and that's okay. mind you, right now i'm at the bottom of a very deep dark hole, but i have a plan to get out. but my best case scenario will never be complete remission.
For me, I have had so many unhelpful responses that I don’t even try sharing anymore. I don’t like pushing my shit onto people and risking being rejected (I’m also on the autism spectrum) so I just…clam up. I’m in a bad place currently and it’s been nice to know a few friends really care but it’s hard to reach out.
N3v3r M0r3 I can relate to this. Or when they ask you how they are and you tell them and then they say, “Don’t say that/Don’t talk like that.” Like, well, guess that’s the end of sharing time.
@@Zarai_Numbers ah yes, the old, you have no idea how bad it feels *for me* that you feel bad. Real head scratcher, that one. Like, thanks for the guilt trip, I’m gonna go back to bed now.
I get real guilty when my support system does things for me and it was something I was "going to do" but never got around to doing. Man I feel like a useless sack of shit whenever that happens, haha...
The one time I opened up to my female acquaintances, one of them being a nurse, they called my OB and was forced into a referral video call, which cost me $100 out of pocket. The OB then "diagnosed" me with depression and started pushing antidepressants on me. That's the first and final time I'm opening up in that way. My point being: sometimes depressed people don't ask for help because other people's definition of help can make things worse.
Generally speaking artists tend to be better to open up to. Partially because a lot of them have experience with mental illness through themselves or friends, and tend to have a more pragmatic view on it, like it is just something some people have. Just be cautious who you choose.
as someone who has been on both ends - the depressed friend being comforted and and then formerly depressed friend comforting the depressed friend - I feel like your issues with 3 are a bit overly semantic (the focus on the issue being that you can’t *exactly* know how someone else feels) and disregard the real power there can be for folks in learning that those who they think of as good people have also struggled with self-loathing. This was such a tool for me in terms of broad-scale, long-term self-esteem growth. It helped me recognise that these patterns of thought were not a reflection of myself and my genuine overall worth as a person, but as a demon or an illness that I deal with, or so to speak. People would often tell me I’m a good person or whatever and it always felt like ehhhh they wouldn’t think that if they really knew me, I know better, I know I’m the worst person ever. Looking at it as a logical empathetic problem was very empowering. Would I view these people the way that I view myself if they did or felt the same things that I did? Understanding that people who I fundamentally understood and knew to be “good people” also had experienced this certainty of this cruel perception, this definite feeling that they must be the shittiest person on earth - that taught me to look with empathy upon myself in the ways that I look with empathy in others. That helped me understand that the way I see myself was a distortion of reality and it was a way that I would never look at another human being, even if they were a carbon copy of my experiences and self. It helped me understand that other people had really believed that too, even if I knew for a fact that they were good people. I definitely don’t want to undercount your own lived experience and your expertise in this field. I understand where this advice is coming from and appreciate the knowledge and explanation you’ve shared to back it up and inform it. I just think it’s more of a “sometimes this actually can be helpful but not always” thing than a “never” thing, and i think it’s important to recognise that it can be a helpful tool on both ends. Knowing that other people also battled with cruel voices like my own depression really gave me this valuable insight that maybe my self-hatred wasn’t actually based on the reality that I was a horrible person and just nobody else could see it - it helped me recognise those thoughts as a symptom and an unpleasant suffering that I didn’t deserve to experience. It made it feel like something that could be dealt with and navigated and not just this truth of myself that I had to accept and live with as is. Idk apologies for the ramble. I don’t intend to undermine you with this comment - this is just an experience I feel strongly about because it’s still such a vital tool for me now to continue acting both in empathy for myself and for those around me. To be able to see depression as this figurative parasite of sorts to the brain, one that me and other people deal with, and that it doesn’t make me or any of them bad people, no matter how much it tries to convince us of that.
I think the hardest thing is when people ask “what’s wrong?” and insist on an answer. People are only trying to help, but there just isn’t something to point to as being “the thing that’s wrong” when one is experiencing a debilitating depressive episode. I don’t think people who haven’t experienced it truly understand the withdrawn/shut down state and how much more stressful it can be to be pushed for a reason when in that dark place. In short, my personal number 6-don’t push people who are in a depressive state to explain or give a reason for what’s happening.
7:18 It is so nice to know that my reaction to the sentence "I know exactly how you feel" isn't just me 😅 It took years of being mad about it before realizing that the best way to solve the problem (for me, in that time in my life, to be specific) was to just calmly explain that without experiencing everything the exact same that there is no possible way to know *exactly* how someone else feels. Ever.
Hi Mickey I really like your content. Just popping in to say Thing number 3!!! Mic. Drop. You. 👏 *Don’t* 👏 Understand 👏 THANK YOU. As someone who’s experienced depression for 30 plus years it’s exhausting explaining this over and over. It’s exhausting explaining that saying “you don’t understand” isn’t the same as saying, “you’ve never felt sad or lonely or even depressed” but “we have had such different lived experiences and when you say you understand it’s almost always in the context of ‘oh *I get it* but *I got over it*” and is therefore super invalidating and the opposite of empathetic or helpful to a person who is suffering. Instead of saying I understand, you’re better off saying, “I can only imagine” or “I can’t know what it’s like but I can see that you’re hurting and I want to support you” etc.
Very well said. I suffer from major depressive disorder and high anxiety and PTSD due to a disabling work accident 7 years ago and I will correct people out when I'm falling apart literally in public and say that you can't understand! Do you personally have eyesight to see the inside and feel all of that and the physical side? No. Exactly! Also, when people come up to question my disability, I have a lot of scars outside not just inside, they say "what did YOU do?" I correct them and tell them to not only mind your own business but also, NOT what did you do it's what happened and leave it at that and stop gawking and tell your kids the same or I will and I will not be kind about it.
I feel understanding or not isn't the point, really. Saying "I understand", even when true, draws too much of the focus to you My personal experience is usually not being very sure what got me so down or upset,but 70/80% of people opening with "what's wrong"/"what's the reason". Idk 😅, and even when I do, the cause/trigger usually isn't even present anymore, and explaining it in detail will just drag me back down again
@Melody Ramirez the way you show interest is so important People should ask themselves first why they wanna know, for their own curiosity or really caring for the other person
I detest when people say I understand. Then when I'm like no you don't they argue. Like just stop! Why do you have to prove you understand? It's also so obvious they really don't.
For me, most of the time the "not getting better" bit is because I cannot financially sustain going to get the medical attention I need (I'm pretty sure I have ADHD and oh boy is looking at a diagnosis for that EXPENSIVE) and getting better requires a lot of energy. I have a set amount of energy that I need to survive and finding medical care and the right medical care for what I need is very taxing. I also live in a state where the grippy socks vacation is more like a prison sentence than actual medical care depending on the facility and so I'll probably have to give someone power of medical attorney to make sure that I have the support I need to respect my medical wishes in case someone uses the grippy socks vacation as something retaliatory (my state is currently being investigated for how they handle mental health services, the DOJs involvement in mental health, and denial of mental health in the prison system. Shits crazy). So like I do want to get better. I just live in a capitalist hell hole lol.
Also, maybe a video idea for mental health issues in Oklahoma. The DOJ is currently doing some investigations into Oklahoma's handling of mental health in regard to police being called and failure to provide adequate care to people who are incarcerated. There's more to it than that but as a trans person in Oklahoma, I'm a bit tired right now so I've been giving myself some distance from politics and just trying to be a part of my communities more to be supportive and also receive support.
I hear you. I was finally able to schedule a test for ADHD diagnosis right around the time I had to get off my parents insurance and now it's waaayyy out my price range and I know I can't afford 10k/a night at the facilities. We want the help but our government doesn't think it's worth while and I hate it
@@chocolatequickness1575 I'm really damn lucky because my company has a really robust benefits program so eventually I'll be able to afford it. They also have a lot of support stuff so when things get really bad I can get some help. I would just like to be able to be diagnosed and get medicated if necessary because I heard that ADHD medication is life changing 😅. I also heard that it can help with chronic pain associated with ADHD and oh boy would that be nice to not be in constant physical pain lol.
THIS. Mental healthcare is expensive and even the free options are hard to access. Where I live there is a THREE year waiting list for therapy/trauma counselling. And then there's the incompetent, undertrained therapists you have to navigate. And the fact that even the best healthcare won't solve everything. I hate it when people treat being sick as a choice 😡
My son got diagnosed with ADHD at our family doctor a few years ago. It was the cost of an office visit and the medication is around $10 a month. This may not be the case for you, but wanted to share our experience.
was actually talking to my mom yesterday and she apologized for not listening/asking follow up questions when as a child i would see commercials for depression medication and just out loud go “i think i need that.” i remember doing this from a very young age and the response i’d get would vary from nothing to “shut up no you don’t.” i obviously didn’t realize it then but that was me asking for help and not receiving it which in turn made me isolate myself further. it was nice that she acknowledged her role in that and though it doesn’t really change anything, it felt good to hear an apology.
Love that you brought up reaching out to people who isolate. One of my best friends and I both have a habit of isolating when we are severely depressed. Since we both struggle regularly with isolation we have a system in place. On Snapchat we never let our Snap streak drop. This might seem silly, but it is a daily reminder for us someone cares enough to communicate everyday. Some day we just send each other pictures of the wall. Sometimes getting that picture of the wall is enough communication that we feel comfortable opening up if something is really wrong. Also after years of this I can pick up when something they send me feels off and vice versa. I say all this to show that small doorways of low pressure communication can be a lifesaver.
Number 3 is a huge one for me, when I seek comfort from my mom she often says things like “I understand” or “I’ve been through the same thing” and relates back to situations in her life (which sucks cause I start the conversation to seek support and make myself feel better, not to make my mom feel better) and it feels super invalidating and like my problems are unimportant/not that big of deal because they’re similar to what she’s been through and she’s fine. It feels very validating to hear that I’m not wrong for feeling that way.
#3 is complicated. Sometimes we want to feel “normal” or feel connected with people who get it. We want to be unique, but we also want to know we’re not alone. So, pay attention to what needs someone is expressing.
Sometimes to a depressed person, getting help from friends can feel like a gift you can't repay or an obligation. My mom always said, you can repay money, but you can't ever repay a favor. I learned from another channel, that it can create anxiety about creating an obligation. You are creating two obligations- one that the depressed will feel better and grateful, and the second obligation that you will repay the help one day. Most days I feel like I can't even wash my hair, let alone be a good friend. I have a cartoon like ideal of friendship, maybe from some my little pony cartoons, but I know that when i'm depressed, i'm not it.
I dont know if you deleted my comment or it just disappeared but I was only saying that it's hard when your depression is chronic and cyclical because people want you to be depressed once and get over it. That's what I've struggled with, every episode garners less and less support as people just get sick of being there because what's the point, it'll happen again in a few months. My 'friends' are married, have babies, take trips abroad, are buying homes....they do not want to be around me who has none of those things and can't even go to their cocktail bars or spa days and do Instagram boomerang posts of us clinking our wine glasses because my mental health is on the floor and I dont have disposable or double income. You end up discarded because they just want to have fun and not deal with your 'negativity' 😢. I get it though, that's the worst thing. I also don't just get 'sad' Eeyore like depression....I become very angry and bitter and feel like the world could burn for all I care. Other people's happiness feels like a personal affront and I can't stand to see it. Not pretty at all. I hide it but it burns inside of me. When I'm not depressed, I'm not like that.
The cleaning one really hit home. I always feel judged whether depressed or not- with my cleaning and I get so upset when others try to clean my stuff etc. I have had a friend or two who did "barge" in and do that - and it felt very upsetting. So, I appreciate you bringing this one up.
Instead of "I know what you're going through," a good "non-therapist-y" way to communicate Thing #3 is: "I can *only imagine what you're going through.* It must feel really bad. Are you okay to talk about it?" This lets the suffering person know that you may not know exactly what's going on or what it feels like but you recognize it's causing them pain and you want to understand. Even if sounds really similar to something you've gone through and you might be a valuable resource to help, it is a true statement that, until the other person shares, your imagination, intuition, and suspicion really is what you're basing things on.
I wish i felt good enough to send this to people i love - really, really painted a beautiful picture of how hitting solid lows with chronic depression can feel. Agonizing
Everyone is different so this may not be helpful for people, I just wanted to share some of the things that have been helpful in my friendship group where many of us suffer from mental health issues. 1 : "please do not hesitate to get in touch if you don't feel well, I'm here for you happy, sad, angry whatever your emotion, just message me any time and if I can answer I will" - it is reassuring to affirm people can reach out even when not feeling well, maybe they won't but knowing they can sometimes feels nice 2 : sending memes or even just emojis to let them know we may not be up to talking much but we are thinking about them 3 : "let me know if you need anything, I can make you food, go shopping for you, take you out for a walk, hang out with you ... " - this one is delicate as it may seem upsetting when people try to take control of you and take away your autonomy so I think it has to be phrased in a way that lets the person struggling be able to chose if they want that help or not. We try to be specific as it's hard to know what we want when going through a ruff patch. Anyway just a few things which have worked for me and my friends.
The one of the hardest things I've gone through, and other depressed ppl I've talked to, is people being personally offended by OUR depression. I tell someone I want to unalive myself. And they think they've done something wrong to cause it. I tell someone the reasons that I live for, which doesn't include them, and they're personally offended because "why am *I* not enough for you to live for?" Like, this isn't about you. Please don't make this about you when I'm bringing a life and death convo to the table. I do not control the depression thoughts.
Thank you so much for making this video, I'm sharing it with my friends to help them understand a little more about why I am the way that I am. I know it was probably really difficult to put together & talk about, much less broadcast it to the whole internet, but it's such a helpful resource to have available so thank you again!
My entire friend group has depression, including me, so when there's a lull in the group chat for more then a day ill send somethin like "HEY YOU BEAUTIFUL BASTARDS! I LOVE YOU!"
I feel hollow a lot and I try to describe the way my depression feels when it's not subsiding and I just feel so empty inside yet full of anger and utter sadness and guilt and shame. I use this scene in one of the Dark Knight movies where Batman is in that inescapable well of a prison. They all say nobody gets out and there's no point trying. Well, I feel like him climbing a little then fall back get up higher and falling farther and on and on but he escapes but I can't. My own hollow pit where I can't even feel the wind.
I withdraw from people because it is easier to deal with just myself. I know that support from others in theory means they help carry the load and listen. But in my experience, people tend to make it about themselves, give bad and dismissive advice (or any advice honestly), don't actually help in ways that I need. Usually what I need is help with things around the house, make an appointment with a professional, have someone help advocate in that situation because I also have had professionals misconstrue what is going on. I also need someone to just listen and not freak out or try to solve everything. I also tend to be in a really negative head space. That means really negative thoughts, self hatred, PTSD related issues. It's a lot, and being positive doesn't help. Distractions don't always help. People tend to say invalidating things in an attempt to change the mindset. Ultimately the whole thing is extremely uncomfortable. I'm in a really bad place and it is uncomfortable. So witnessing if or listening or being around it is really uncomfortable, and I am hyper aware that it is. It feels exhausting not being able to deal with my own shit, I don't have the capacity to deal with someone else's regardless of if that is the expectation or not, it feels like that is the expectation. A lot of work I've done has had to happen in isolation by myself. Alone time is not always healthy and I know that but sometimes it is and is necessary.
I feel like 5 can also be an element of fear of failure. I genuinely feel cursed sometimes, so voicing the idea of "I'm going to get better even if it's just cleaning my house" is dating the universe to prove me wrong. Better to just work towards the intent without voicing it. But that also does not feel healthy lol
I am very thankful how you elaborated on Number 3. Because this is not just the case for depression, but in general life as well. I had a huge falling out with the partner of my sibling recently. During our fight I tried to tell them that I will never understand what it is like to walk in their shoes and vice versa. That we can have empathy for each other, but will never really understand. They just said "this is something we clearly see differently" and to this day I am so confused by that comment. How could they say we see it differently when its clearly a fact that we can never really understand? Also, I always am cautious about saying "I understand". Usually I try to say something like "I can (only) imagine how you must feel" or "This must be hard for you" instead of bombarding them with something that will make them feel like I just want to talk about myself.
Nailed it yet again Mickey. So good for me to see what I go through on the screen bringing it out of my psyche and seeing it in the real world. It helps validate that the process is real. Love you so much mate.
Reality is, it's tricky, many contradicting emotions etc. Personally I appreciate people, most of the time my bf, telling me they are lost too and aren't sure what to say or do. We're all human, acknowledging where our limits are can actually bring us closer together
I feel like being told, both implicitly and explicitly, by others that asking for help is attention seeking also creates a sort of feedback loop into feeling that I don't deserve help or that I'm not worthy of people's time in regards to that.
Lol Me and my husband have become the people that get honest confessions even of passive and active wanting to end themselves. I learned to tell my friend “I’m proud of you for fighting back the thoughts that are constantly there. It must be hard to deal with.” I also remind both of us “no decision will be easy.” Those made made my friend feel heard and appreciated it a lot. My husband is big on not stepping in to help right away. I’ll wait till she advocates for herself or i just ask what she is comfortable with.
Another bitter pill to swallow: yes that one call/message you do or don't send could very well be the final trigger for deciding whether or not to unalive myself. I know that this sucks to hear if you have a friend or family member that went ahead and did it, but it's also a beacon of hope if you are supporting someone that hasn't yet. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
I have an agreement with some of the people around me. Sometimes, when people reach out all the time, it can actually be very burdensome for me, because I feel like I let them down and I know I worry them, but I can't be... happy around them. So we agreed that if I feel that way and they do reach out, I simply send them an emoji to let them know I indeed see them, but I really need my space for a moment. And I also promised if I can, I will reach out and ask them to meet up :).
My partner has been struggling a lot with severe depression. All of your scenarios and advice describe her predicament perfectly. I have been feeling helpless all this time, but this advice might help. Thank you.
I actually agree with every single point and feel a little called out right now ^^' But overall I'm very thankful for this video, because now I have something to share with my friends to maybe make things easier for all of us? At least as soon as I manage to convince myself that I'm allowed to share stuff and I won't be a nuisance :D
I’m going through a hard time, especially after my mom and dad died. I stopped talking with friends because i don’t want to be a burden and also when i do say I’m depressed, they don’t know what to say, change the subject, or they give advice. You end up feeling more alone with people than being alone.
Just a note that especially if you know the person is neurodiverse please ask before sending us lots of check ins. Autistic burnout can look a lot like depression and for me when I am experiencing autistic burnout check in messages can feel very obligatory and stressful and not help me at all.
What should you do when the person who is socially withdrawing does not express what their boundaries are around reaching out to them? I struggle with this a lot because I want to keep my depressed friends aware of the fact that I love them and want them in my life whenever they're ready BUT I have had the case where I specifically ask someone who is beginning to withdraw what they want in terms of reaching out vs. not, and they didn't reply at all. Freaked me out because I was worried about them and then also I'm in a moral quandary of schrodinger's depressed friend, who either wants to hear from me even if they cant' respond and would be worse off if I don't OR who wants to be left alone and will perceive my reaching out as annoying or clingy or patronizing and drive them away.
I have been clinically diagnosed with depression, and so have a few members of my family. I can't deal with their moments because I already can't deal with my own. So in turn, I don't bother other people when I'm going through it because I've never been able to provide help to people who needed it. It's a whole annoying cycle.
My best friend is from a different country, and mental illness isn't something that her culture believes is valid, unless you are actively homeless and/or without the means to put food into your body. I want to talk about acclimating her to the idea that mental illness is a real thing. I don't say this to contradict the advice in the video. This is not a comparable scenario, specifically because she had little to no understanding of even the concept of mental illness. When we first started hanging out (we studied for classes we were talking together, in college), I noticed a lot of indicators of mental illness in her behavior, words, and demeanor. I decided to open up to her about my own ongoing struggles with with mental illness, the way that my life was impacted, and how I felt about it and myself, as a result of the mental illness. I also made myself available to answer any questions that she had about mental illness, as long as they can be answered by a layperson. This really helped her see that mental illness doesn't have to be caused by life circumstances. After we developed an actual friendship, and built mutual trust, I started asking questions about how she was feeling when I noticed changes in her behavior, and lightly drawing parallels to my own mental health struggles. By "lightly drawing parallels," I mean saying things like "I deal with similar thoughts, during my depressive episodes," or "you know, I dealt with a lot of nightmares, as well, before I got on my medication," not "I think you may be dealing with depression and anxiety." After a while, she started to see, and eventually accept that it was possible that she, too, was struggling with mental illness. It was a little bit magical, because she began feeling comfortable saying that she was "feeling depressed," or "feeling anxious," and I made sure to always validate and honor her feelings, because I understood that her family had not yet come around to embracing the idea of mental illness as a medical diagnosis, rather than a result if events. I also started gently suggesting that maybe talking to a her doctor and a therapist about it would be beneficial. I was careful never to tell her that she "had to" or "should" because nobody likes being told what to do. Eventually, she felt safe enough to open up and tell me that, in her early teens her whole family had actually been caught up in a horrific natural disaster, in her country of origin, and the impact of that is what caused her family to immigrate here. At this point, we're talking mass trauma quickly followed by personal trauma, and I understood that this was something that I could never relate to. This disclosure did, however, lead to some conversations about trauma, and the effect that it has on mental health. She also began toying with the idea of going to therapy. After this, I kind of became her go-to person when she had questions about mental illness, mental health care, how to explain mental illness to her family, medication, nightmares, and anything else related the subject. It was five years from me first noticing her mental symptoms to the point when she scheduled her first appointment with a mental health clinician. In those five years, she had come a long way towards accepting that her self-talk was not indicative of her value, as a person. She had also learned that it's okay to cancel plans, or to change them at the last minute, if she didn't feel up to going through with the original plans; in other words, she used to ghost, if she didn't feel up to something, but she had learned that it's okay to say "I don't feel like seeing anyone, today" or "I can't do going out, today. Can we just hang out at my place, instead?" I'm incredibly proud of her progress, but also a little bit sad, because her family still tells her that she has nothing to be depressed about. That said, she now views this as ignorance, and even though it is incredibly dismissive, she doesn't take it to heart.
"Cleaning can feel like judgement." Omg can someone tell this to my mum?? ‐------------- My other problem is that it's true I don't think I'm worthy of help because I'm so shit at helping other people.
This was so great to hear, especially the later numbers, because I have told someone I don't want to get better but never heard how that's a normal feeling. I would like to add to the cleaning bit. I wish my partner had recognized, and without asking me to do it, but maybe just asking if something needed to be done, and then stepped up. Like for our shared spaces when I stopped being the only one to clean or help with making sure our kids' appointments were still met, because having it pile up made it harder to get going again. But I would not have appreciated someone else, like my mom, coming in and cleaning or trying to figure out appointments unless I asked because it would have been like they were taking over and that I wasn't good enough to do those things. For my partner, it would have been me leaning on them for a period of time.
After 20+ years of Major Depressive Disorder I want to find out what I don't tell people... Because I have been known to tell quite a lot. Of course as a logician, I know that the inverse of a topic 𝕋 tells us much about 𝕋. But my condition is made more complex by Autism, ADHD, Giftedness, & my knowledge of the depths of our neoliberal neofascist culture's depravity & my advocacy for Socialism & knowledge of its theory.
I'm having a depressive episode now. I have a routine appointment with my psych provider in the morning. I don't want to go. I don't want to expend the energy trying to describe it, or answer his questions. I've usually been okay, and this is the first time this provider will see me depressed. Sigh...
I really need my people. The people I’ve loved the most over the past 30 years. But they said they’d be there when I am “ready to come back.” That just dumped more pain on top of the pain of my worst nightmare coming true. I tried to make do with other people. Tried to make new friends and find a new tribe, but my trust is irreparably damaged. Now, therapists won’t even waitlist me because I’m so severely untrusting. I wish my people would reach out but middle age and the self-righteousness of being in our 40s precludes that. Someone told me that I should reach out and apologize for being depressed. So I’m on blowout. Started the party in January. Doing a few last adventures because I no longer care about the future. Going out with a bang in a few months. And no, Janine, you’re not getting Blue in my will. Better for him to be donated than end up with you.
Sometimes I feel like If depression is normalised in the surroundings of that person like they are surrounded by depressed people they don’t take it as serious as they are not worse than other person who is very severe. Comparison to others happens with so many mental illnesses or like what constitutes needing help it’s very subjective when you read online. What are your thoughts on that side?
Can you make a mirror 🪞 video on some of us who act as people saviors. I just have a new boyfriend and i think he's depressed. I don't know what's depression but I have an erge to be "helping" people. Yes I'm in therapy for that reason, among others... But now i don't know what to "do". I did find a vido helpfull.
I would like to add a caveat to these people reaching out. Pay attention to how people reach out to you. I don't mean by text or call, I mean whether they're asking something for you or asking something FROM you. I knew someone who used to be a friend, who never contacted me except to bitch and complain about their life and then ask to visit to get away from their mom (because that's a whole can of worms. Both are definitely the ah, but the person I knew was 1,000,000% more so). It was never to see how I was, never hanging out just to hang out, we never did what I wanted. It was all about poor little them. Don't get used. Pay attention to how they're contacting you.
personally the reason i tend to withdraw when im not doing well is because i really struggle with letting myself be a burden on other people. i understand that carrying each other's burdens is part of a normal relationship and should happen naturally but it feels so much simpler to just not mention it and handle it by myself
you having human needs is not a burden. Sharing emotional labor & other labor is natural you are right. But you having needs & communicating them should not add shame/burden stress. Do what you can sure but find places an people you can share with as you need to
This is me to the t. It's not an easy thing to just stop believing, even if I know perfectly well my feelings are valid and I am as worth of help as I consider others to be. Lately I'm trying to practice self-compassion. It comes really naturally for me to feel compassion for others but it's difficult to do that for myself and allow others to do it without feeling like a burden. Don't give up on yourself, bud. You are worth the effort.
My family has called me a burden for being mentally and chronically ill before. It's an ableist trope, and one we often internalize. Hope you feel well soon ❤
@@lordfreerealestate8302 you are correct best wishes to you too
Saaaaaame tho
my therapist telling me that my apartment being really messy is morally neutral led to one of my biggest breakthroughs. i stopped waking up every day thinking about how I have to get started on cleaning it and going to bed feeling like a failure for procrastinating all day and instead focused my energy on waking up getting out of bed, going outside, and reading/watching comfort media and I started to feel so much better. the apartment stayed a mess for a while but it no longer bothered me or made me feel like I couldn't do anything before cleaning it, and a few weeks later I felt well enough to tackle it and a relative came over and we cleaned it together
Thank you for sharing this C! ❤ your brave sharing of your experience helped me. I relate to this underlying situation. Your sharing of “morally neutral” is now a key phrase for me. It identifies why I’m getting angrier at my sessions: while trying to be encouraging or acknowledging, my therapist constantly judges and moralizes from an ableist perspective. Her unexpressed trope is “just exercise, retrain your thoughts and be positive so you can fit in the box. Time to find someone else! I hope you’re still discovering how to neutralize others moral judgments, so you can walk your path.
@@indigotulip11 what a lovely reply you made my day 🥹 I hope u find better care soon, you really deserve to have a therapist that understands you and treats you with compassion! the guilt surrounding not being able to do things you feel like you "should" do is such a heavy burden and unfortunately the harder we try to do them the more shame we feel when we end up failing, making the burden heavier and the task even harder to do. it's a downward spiral until you stop judging yourself and give yourself grace. I'm still working on it but I am ineffably grateful to my therapist she has done so much for me
I haven’t finished watching the video so idk if she says in this one too, but Mickey said in another video of her’s that “people don’t do better when they feel worse” and I think that is so true
I told a friend I was going through (another, not my first) depression. That was the ping to assess whether to not I could talk to her about painful things. She told me another friend of hers I had never met was REALLY depressed and she and I should do something nice for HER. This is the type of person who posts on social media for suicide awareness, “If you feel bad, just reach out! I’m here for you!” Girl, you don’t even know when someone IS reaching out, and no you weren’t! We’re no longer friends, but in the last few years I’ve found ones who truly get it and ARE actually there for each other.
I started crying at number 2 because hold on, people have support people that actively reach out and check on us like, huh? No one really cares to check on me so i just kinda go numb and forget how to feel
I hope that you’ve found better supports since you’ve made this comment. I’m sorry that people haven’t been reaching out to you. My friends and I are all in a group chat together so they still contact me through there. You deserve something like thar
I stay away from friends because i dont want to be a debbie downer...i hate being asked how im doing because im not fine or good and i hate having to pretend im good...
Same here! I really feel this! You're not alone! 😕🖤💯
I live in a neighborhood full of healthy, active retired people, some much older than me. We have driveway parties in the warmer weather. I like to go, and they kind of know I have "problems", so I make myself go and try to act OK. But I just wish our society had a different greeting , other than the one that everybody seems to have to say to you, and you say it back-- "How are you"-- "Fine, how are you?" It's just a stupid lie that you go through the motions of saying, to be "sociable". They're very nice people, but they're so danged PEPPY.
What hurts and also pisses me off is all the judgement around hygiene, especially from people who claim to care about mental health issues. It happens every time a rich white person says they don’t shower every single day (I’m BIPOC) (I’m glad it’s finally being recognized as partially to do with racial trauma) and the ensuing conversations are so ableist. My self loathing is pretty much always off the charts and my hygiene issues (I’m bipolar 2) are SUCH a struggle (I also have very limiting physical disabilities) and a constant source of self hate. When people talk about how dirty and smelly and disgusting people are who don’t keep up with personal hygiene as much (I’m talking about the body and not messy rooms; the latter is so much more normalized and socially accepted). It is an exact echo of my internal monologue. Physical hygiene issues are like one of the top 5 struggles for people with mental illness and yet, out of the other ones that may be a bit more mild and affect the greater population, this is so maligned. Venting over. Love your channel and videos, as always!
Thank you. 🙌
I thankfully have not been questioned about this part of my depression but I know I sound nasty AF saying that I haven't showered in probably a month but I use wipes on and off and had huge knots in my hair on both sides where my glasses literally pull my hair out and dirty and had been finger combed and had my haircut due to all of that. I'm not sure if it helps and I genuinely don't want to come off as offensive and feel free to tell me that, honestly, but maybe you could try baby wipes or Lume deodorant wipes that you can clean EVERYWHERE and it really helps with the stink of sweat and dry shampoo. I hope you find your way into feeling a little better day by day. Good luck!
I can struggle with hygiene too and my therapist recommends things like using baby wipes to wipe down the important areas. Just small things that can be manageable when an entire shower feels overwhelming for me
I often struggle to want to "get better" because it feels like there's then more pain and more to lose if my symptoms get worse, and it feels exhausting to get my hopes up only to remain chronically mentally ill
My reasons for not sharing pain (depression, trauma, otherwise):
1. Met with toxic positivity.
2. Lots of my family members are narcisissts.
3. I have opened up before and deeply regretted it.
Bingo 😒
The third point!!!
I am the reason for number 3 for a person, and I am so sorry for that. I learned. But afterwards. I am trying to get that trust back and try to support effectively again... I hope I will be able to do that...
I lost the entire friendgroup I had for 10+ years when I started down an especially severe (and long-term) depressive episode. I began withdrawing socially... and they let me. These were the people who I loved and cared about most of all on the planet, and who I thought loved and cared for me as well. So for them to let go of me so easily really hurt. In my mind, it only reinforced that feeling you brought up in the first point, of not deserving help. I felt burdensome and unworthy as a person, and therefore not deserving of their friendship... which of course only caused me to withdraw more. I'm basically a hermit with no friends and social life now 🙃
They may just be trying to give you some space
I'm with you on all fronts here. It's hard and I struggle even trying to imagine the possibility of future friendships. Just trying to embrace this being a more solitary season of my life, learning to be a friend to myself (cliché, and quite essential by my estimation), and finding that the living world/"nature" is always ready to welcome me, regardless of how deeply gloomy and burdensome I may feel. It's not easy, but the seasons inevitably change. Love to you, my friend.
@@notascottishgirl2543 for 4 years??
@@pickletown thank you 💖
Absolutely in the same place as you. Can't maintain friendship, feel really let down by the people who I thought were friends. They'd watch my Instagram stories of me Absolutely spiralling and just keep scrolling. Wouldn't reach out or even react in anyway and that showed me who my friends were. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would have intervened and supported.
The days of not wanting to get better, for me, sometimes relate back to interpersonal trauma. Growing up, such a big thing was made of putting on a smile and pretending everything was fine. My family put a very strong onus on me to not show any distress, to not be authentic about real shit that was happening behind closed doors. And even apart from trauma, it's a societal expectation that is put on us all, to pretend we are fine when we aren't. Sometimes a part of me wants to hold onto feeling shitty, as a sort of expression of the injustices that were going on. I'm sure many of you will be able to relate to this. And it is a scary thing to admit to, but it's just a part of me, and it's not how I feel all the time. Just sometimes. I think if we were encouraged to be inauthentic, there will be parts of us that rile against this.
Oh yes, I feel this. There's also been so many times when I've tried talking to people about how down I was, and they'd just say some trite nonsense like, "just stop thinking that way/think of all the good things in life." It's like all of that invalidation made caused me to feel protective of my depression (and of course less willing to talk about it with anyone).
The first one can be even more extreme. People can feel not only as a burden but as literal poison to people they love. They feel their state will infect the life of other people. The most helpful comment I got in this state was" I have a right to decide for myself whether to take the risk to interact with you. You bear no responsibility in any negative outcome resulting from me being with you. It was my choice."
With number 5 from the depressed person's POV: I find it VERY helpful to phrase "I don't want to get better" as a "I am having a down day and I just want to be sad/upset today" instead, if you are afraid of saying the former. It has similar energy without raising the red flags that'll make people overreact. Even if it doesn't encase the entire feeling, it will still get enough of the point across and give you the chance to ask for space, or to talk and vent if you need that, whatever you need from whoever is asking.
Yeah I definitely need to have the time to “lick my wounds” and feel sorry for myself before I’m ready to be positive in any way when I’m particularly struggling
The way you experience number 2 and 3 are fascinating to me because my reactions to these are switched.
I absolutely detest people trying to reach out to me when I'm withdrawing and everyone around me knows that. I'm open about my depression (e.g. how I handle it, what my history is, how I encourage people to treat me during depressive episodes, what my feelings are etc.) because it's chronic and therefore it's going to affect me all my life. When I'm in a rough spot I call it my dying-cat-situation. I'll hide in a dark corner to be left alone until a bad depressive episode is "over". It's not because I don't think I deserve help but because I'm highly irritable and irrationally angry during that stage (I have a good understanding of the reasons for this). No attention from anyone is soothing to me in those moments. Also, I don't want to lash out at the people around me, they don't deserve that at all. It's best not to contact me or talk to me during that time. I'll take care to reach out to people once a dying-cat-situation is over, though.
On the other hand, I love people who also experience/have experienced depression to tell me that they get it. I like trauma-sharing and the subsequent jokes that stem from this absurd mental struggle. It's kind of relieving to me in a macabre way. We're in the same bad spot, and it's not fair but also, yeah, it sometimes can be strange/ funny living through it and it's nice to know that we can share that.
However, I can definitely understand people experiencing those two points differently and that's absolutely valid and fair.
100%! I get very angry and become very bitter about the people around me and their happiness. I hate it. It isn't me. When I'm not depressed, I'm not like that but when I am, the world can burn. I've learnt that it's best to withdraw because I've lost friendships because of it.
Laziness as a concept is Ableist BS. Giving ppl space & bandwidth to meet each others needs is so important. Taking the time to engage with people you care for while respecting their needs & autonomy does take time but it can make such a difference
I’ve embraced the sloth. They live rightly at their own speed. I’m so burnt out of running around at freeway speed to get the never-ending list done feeling I’ve never done enough, no matter how much or (now mostly) how little (basically because I think my non-rational self is on strike). This, of course, may be an entirely different perspective than yours. What is your perspective? Bottom line, laziness is simply hurtful name-calling. The other thing that helps me, is to “flip the target”. When people verbally point a finger, three fingers point back at themself: whoever call someone else “lazy” is secretly very afraid of being (called) lazy themself - and are saying it inside to themselves. No matter how put together they look, they’re very scared of being found out, although it may be subconscious and they’ll likely vehemently deny it if you bring it up. Anyway, when I can do it, it helps me question the speaker and not take it so personally, it also reminds me that I’m not the only one that may have issues around whatever judge mental, or mean comment others may make I’m still working on this, however, it seems to help and I hope it does for you too.
don't know about others, but another thing i don't tell people:
this is as good as it gets.
i won't ever be not depressed. only less. and that's okay.
mind you, right now i'm at the bottom of a very deep dark hole, but i have a plan to get out.
but my best case scenario will never be complete remission.
For me, I have had so many unhelpful responses that I don’t even try sharing anymore. I don’t like pushing my shit onto people and risking being rejected (I’m also on the autism spectrum) so I just…clam up. I’m in a bad place currently and it’s been nice to know a few friends really care but it’s hard to reach out.
6. Don't make me feel responsible for your well being it takes a lot of energy to put a smile because you won't let me breakdown
YES! This is an important one. My mom told my suicidal brother that he has no idea what it feels like to have a suicidal child.
N3v3r M0r3 I can relate to this. Or when they ask you how they are and you tell them and then they say, “Don’t say that/Don’t talk like that.” Like, well, guess that’s the end of sharing time.
@@Zarai_Numbers ah yes, the old, you have no idea how bad it feels *for me* that you feel bad. Real head scratcher, that one. Like, thanks for the guilt trip, I’m gonna go back to bed now.
I get real guilty when my support system does things for me and it was something I was "going to do" but never got around to doing. Man I feel like a useless sack of shit whenever that happens, haha...
The one time I opened up to my female acquaintances, one of them being a nurse, they called my OB and was forced into a referral video call, which cost me $100 out of pocket. The OB then "diagnosed" me with depression and started pushing antidepressants on me. That's the first and final time I'm opening up in that way. My point being: sometimes depressed people don't ask for help because other people's definition of help can make things worse.
Generally speaking artists tend to be better to open up to. Partially because a lot of them have experience with mental illness through themselves or friends, and tend to have a more pragmatic view on it, like it is just something some people have. Just be cautious who you choose.
as someone who has been on both ends - the depressed friend being comforted and and then formerly depressed friend comforting the depressed friend - I feel like your issues with 3 are a bit overly semantic (the focus on the issue being that you can’t *exactly* know how someone else feels) and disregard the real power there can be for folks in learning that those who they think of as good people have also struggled with self-loathing. This was such a tool for me in terms of broad-scale, long-term self-esteem growth. It helped me recognise that these patterns of thought were not a reflection of myself and my genuine overall worth as a person, but as a demon or an illness that I deal with, or so to speak. People would often tell me I’m a good person or whatever and it always felt like ehhhh they wouldn’t think that if they really knew me, I know better, I know I’m the worst person ever. Looking at it as a logical empathetic problem was very empowering. Would I view these people the way that I view myself if they did or felt the same things that I did? Understanding that people who I fundamentally understood and knew to be “good people” also had experienced this certainty of this cruel perception, this definite feeling that they must be the shittiest person on earth - that taught me to look with empathy upon myself in the ways that I look with empathy in others. That helped me understand that the way I see myself was a distortion of reality and it was a way that I would never look at another human being, even if they were a carbon copy of my experiences and self. It helped me understand that other people had really believed that too, even if I knew for a fact that they were good people.
I definitely don’t want to undercount your own lived experience and your expertise in this field. I understand where this advice is coming from and appreciate the knowledge and explanation you’ve shared to back it up and inform it. I just think it’s more of a “sometimes this actually can be helpful but not always” thing than a “never” thing, and i think it’s important to recognise that it can be a helpful tool on both ends. Knowing that other people also battled with cruel voices like my own depression really gave me this valuable insight that maybe my self-hatred wasn’t actually based on the reality that I was a horrible person and just nobody else could see it - it helped me recognise those thoughts as a symptom and an unpleasant suffering that I didn’t deserve to experience. It made it feel like something that could be dealt with and navigated and not just this truth of myself that I had to accept and live with as is. Idk apologies for the ramble. I don’t intend to undermine you with this comment - this is just an experience I feel strongly about because it’s still such a vital tool for me now to continue acting both in empathy for myself and for those around me. To be able to see depression as this figurative parasite of sorts to the brain, one that me and other people deal with, and that it doesn’t make me or any of them bad people, no matter how much it tries to convince us of that.
I think the hardest thing is when people ask “what’s wrong?” and insist on an answer. People are only trying to help, but there just isn’t something to point to as being “the thing that’s wrong” when one is experiencing a debilitating depressive episode. I don’t think people who haven’t experienced it truly understand the withdrawn/shut down state and how much more stressful it can be to be pushed for a reason when in that dark place. In short, my personal number 6-don’t push people who are in a depressive state to explain or give a reason for what’s happening.
7:18 It is so nice to know that my reaction to the sentence "I know exactly how you feel" isn't just me 😅 It took years of being mad about it before realizing that the best way to solve the problem (for me, in that time in my life, to be specific) was to just calmly explain that without experiencing everything the exact same that there is no possible way to know *exactly* how someone else feels. Ever.
Hi Mickey I really like your content. Just popping in to say Thing number 3!!! Mic. Drop. You. 👏 *Don’t* 👏 Understand 👏 THANK YOU. As someone who’s experienced depression for 30 plus years it’s exhausting explaining this over and over. It’s exhausting explaining that saying “you don’t understand” isn’t the same as saying, “you’ve never felt sad or lonely or even depressed” but “we have had such different lived experiences and when you say you understand it’s almost always in the context of ‘oh *I get it* but *I got over it*” and is therefore super invalidating and the opposite of empathetic or helpful to a person who is suffering. Instead of saying I understand, you’re better off saying, “I can only imagine” or “I can’t know what it’s like but I can see that you’re hurting and I want to support you” etc.
This! It really triggers me when people tell me : oh, I 've been depressed like everybody
Very well said. I suffer from major depressive disorder and high anxiety and PTSD due to a disabling work accident 7 years ago and I will correct people out when I'm falling apart literally in public and say that you can't understand! Do you personally have eyesight to see the inside and feel all of that and the physical side? No. Exactly! Also, when people come up to question my disability, I have a lot of scars outside not just inside, they say "what did YOU do?" I correct them and tell them to not only mind your own business but also, NOT what did you do it's what happened and leave it at that and stop gawking and tell your kids the same or I will and I will not be kind about it.
I feel understanding or not isn't the point, really. Saying "I understand", even when true, draws too much of the focus to you
My personal experience is usually not being very sure what got me so down or upset,but 70/80% of people opening with "what's wrong"/"what's the reason". Idk 😅, and even when I do, the cause/trigger usually isn't even present anymore, and explaining it in detail will just drag me back down again
@Melody Ramirez the way you show interest is so important
People should ask themselves first why they wanna know, for their own curiosity or really caring for the other person
I detest when people say I understand. Then when I'm like no you don't they argue. Like just stop! Why do you have to prove you understand? It's also so obvious they really don't.
For me, most of the time the "not getting better" bit is because I cannot financially sustain going to get the medical attention I need (I'm pretty sure I have ADHD and oh boy is looking at a diagnosis for that EXPENSIVE) and getting better requires a lot of energy. I have a set amount of energy that I need to survive and finding medical care and the right medical care for what I need is very taxing. I also live in a state where the grippy socks vacation is more like a prison sentence than actual medical care depending on the facility and so I'll probably have to give someone power of medical attorney to make sure that I have the support I need to respect my medical wishes in case someone uses the grippy socks vacation as something retaliatory (my state is currently being investigated for how they handle mental health services, the DOJs involvement in mental health, and denial of mental health in the prison system. Shits crazy). So like I do want to get better. I just live in a capitalist hell hole lol.
Also, maybe a video idea for mental health issues in Oklahoma. The DOJ is currently doing some investigations into Oklahoma's handling of mental health in regard to police being called and failure to provide adequate care to people who are incarcerated. There's more to it than that but as a trans person in Oklahoma, I'm a bit tired right now so I've been giving myself some distance from politics and just trying to be a part of my communities more to be supportive and also receive support.
I hear you. I was finally able to schedule a test for ADHD diagnosis right around the time I had to get off my parents insurance and now it's waaayyy out my price range and I know I can't afford 10k/a night at the facilities. We want the help but our government doesn't think it's worth while and I hate it
@@chocolatequickness1575 I'm really damn lucky because my company has a really robust benefits program so eventually I'll be able to afford it. They also have a lot of support stuff so when things get really bad I can get some help. I would just like to be able to be diagnosed and get medicated if necessary because I heard that ADHD medication is life changing 😅. I also heard that it can help with chronic pain associated with ADHD and oh boy would that be nice to not be in constant physical pain lol.
THIS. Mental healthcare is expensive and even the free options are hard to access. Where I live there is a THREE year waiting list for therapy/trauma counselling. And then there's the incompetent, undertrained therapists you have to navigate. And the fact that even the best healthcare won't solve everything. I hate it when people treat being sick as a choice 😡
My son got diagnosed with ADHD at our family doctor a few years ago. It was the cost of an office visit and the medication is around $10 a month. This may not be the case for you, but wanted to share our experience.
was actually talking to my mom yesterday and she apologized for not listening/asking follow up questions when as a child i would see commercials for depression medication and just out loud go “i think i need that.” i remember doing this from a very young age and the response i’d get would vary from nothing to “shut up no you don’t.”
i obviously didn’t realize it then but that was me asking for help and not receiving it which in turn made me isolate myself further. it was nice that she acknowledged her role in that and though it doesn’t really change anything, it felt good to hear an apology.
Love that you brought up reaching out to people who isolate. One of my best friends and I both have a habit of isolating when we are severely depressed. Since we both struggle regularly with isolation we have a system in place. On Snapchat we never let our Snap streak drop. This might seem silly, but it is a daily reminder for us someone cares enough to communicate everyday. Some day we just send each other pictures of the wall. Sometimes getting that picture of the wall is enough communication that we feel comfortable opening up if something is really wrong. Also after years of this I can pick up when something they send me feels off and vice versa. I say all this to show that small doorways of low pressure communication can be a lifesaver.
Number 3 is a huge one for me, when I seek comfort from my mom she often says things like “I understand” or “I’ve been through the same thing” and relates back to situations in her life (which sucks cause I start the conversation to seek support and make myself feel better, not to make my mom feel better) and it feels super invalidating and like my problems are unimportant/not that big of deal because they’re similar to what she’s been through and she’s fine. It feels very validating to hear that I’m not wrong for feeling that way.
#3 is complicated. Sometimes we want to feel “normal” or feel connected with people who get it. We want to be unique, but we also want to know we’re not alone. So, pay attention to what needs someone is expressing.
Sometimes to a depressed person, getting help from friends can feel like a gift you can't repay or an obligation. My mom always said, you can repay money, but you can't ever repay a favor. I learned from another channel, that it can create anxiety about creating an obligation. You are creating two obligations- one that the depressed will feel better and grateful, and the second obligation that you will repay the help one day. Most days I feel like I can't even wash my hair, let alone be a good friend. I have a cartoon like ideal of friendship, maybe from some my little pony cartoons, but I know that when i'm depressed, i'm not it.
I dont know if you deleted my comment or it just disappeared but I was only saying that it's hard when your depression is chronic and cyclical because people want you to be depressed once and get over it. That's what I've struggled with, every episode garners less and less support as people just get sick of being there because what's the point, it'll happen again in a few months.
My 'friends' are married, have babies, take trips abroad, are buying homes....they do not want to be around me who has none of those things and can't even go to their cocktail bars or spa days and do Instagram boomerang posts of us clinking our wine glasses because my mental health is on the floor and I dont have disposable or double income. You end up discarded because they just want to have fun and not deal with your 'negativity' 😢. I get it though, that's the worst thing.
I also don't just get 'sad' Eeyore like depression....I become very angry and bitter and feel like the world could burn for all I care. Other people's happiness feels like a personal affront and I can't stand to see it. Not pretty at all. I hide it but it burns inside of me. When I'm not depressed, I'm not like that.
The cleaning one really hit home. I always feel judged whether depressed or not- with my cleaning and I get so upset when others try to clean my stuff etc. I have had a friend or two who did "barge" in and do that - and it felt very upsetting. So, I appreciate you bringing this one up.
Instead of "I know what you're going through," a good "non-therapist-y" way to communicate Thing #3 is: "I can *only imagine what you're going through.* It must feel really bad. Are you okay to talk about it?"
This lets the suffering person know that you may not know exactly what's going on or what it feels like but you recognize it's causing them pain and you want to understand. Even if sounds really similar to something you've gone through and you might be a valuable resource to help, it is a true statement that, until the other person shares, your imagination, intuition, and suspicion really is what you're basing things on.
I wish i felt good enough to send this to people i love - really, really painted a beautiful picture of how hitting solid lows with chronic depression can feel.
Agonizing
Everyone is different so this may not be helpful for people, I just wanted to share some of the things that have been helpful in my friendship group where many of us suffer from mental health issues.
1 : "please do not hesitate to get in touch if you don't feel well, I'm here for you happy, sad, angry whatever your emotion, just message me any time and if I can answer I will"
- it is reassuring to affirm people can reach out even when not feeling well, maybe they won't but knowing they can sometimes feels nice
2 : sending memes or even just emojis to let them know we may not be up to talking much but we are thinking about them
3 : "let me know if you need anything, I can make you food, go shopping for you, take you out for a walk, hang out with you ... "
- this one is delicate as it may seem upsetting when people try to take control of you and take away your autonomy so I think it has to be phrased in a way that lets the person struggling be able to chose if they want that help or not. We try to be specific as it's hard to know what we want when going through a ruff patch.
Anyway just a few things which have worked for me and my friends.
The one of the hardest things I've gone through, and other depressed ppl I've talked to, is people being personally offended by OUR depression. I tell someone I want to unalive myself. And they think they've done something wrong to cause it. I tell someone the reasons that I live for, which doesn't include them, and they're personally offended because "why am *I* not enough for you to live for?"
Like, this isn't about you. Please don't make this about you when I'm bringing a life and death convo to the table. I do not control the depression thoughts.
Thank you so much for making this video, I'm sharing it with my friends to help them understand a little more about why I am the way that I am. I know it was probably really difficult to put together & talk about, much less broadcast it to the whole internet, but it's such a helpful resource to have available so thank you again!
My entire friend group has depression, including me, so when there's a lull in the group chat for more then a day ill send somethin like "HEY YOU BEAUTIFUL BASTARDS! I LOVE YOU!"
So what are we suppose to do? Keep reaching out only to receive silence or rejection?
I feel hollow a lot and I try to describe the way my depression feels when it's not subsiding and I just feel so empty inside yet full of anger and utter sadness and guilt and shame. I use this scene in one of the Dark Knight movies where Batman is in that inescapable well of a prison. They all say nobody gets out and there's no point trying. Well, I feel like him climbing a little then fall back get up higher and falling farther and on and on but he escapes but I can't. My own hollow pit where I can't even feel the wind.
I withdraw from people because it is easier to deal with just myself. I know that support from others in theory means they help carry the load and listen. But in my experience, people tend to make it about themselves, give bad and dismissive advice (or any advice honestly), don't actually help in ways that I need. Usually what I need is help with things around the house, make an appointment with a professional, have someone help advocate in that situation because I also have had professionals misconstrue what is going on. I also need someone to just listen and not freak out or try to solve everything.
I also tend to be in a really negative head space. That means really negative thoughts, self hatred, PTSD related issues. It's a lot, and being positive doesn't help. Distractions don't always help. People tend to say invalidating things in an attempt to change the mindset.
Ultimately the whole thing is extremely uncomfortable. I'm in a really bad place and it is uncomfortable. So witnessing if or listening or being around it is really uncomfortable, and I am hyper aware that it is. It feels exhausting not being able to deal with my own shit, I don't have the capacity to deal with someone else's regardless of if that is the expectation or not, it feels like that is the expectation.
A lot of work I've done has had to happen in isolation by myself. Alone time is not always healthy and I know that but sometimes it is and is necessary.
I feel like 5 can also be an element of fear of failure. I genuinely feel cursed sometimes, so voicing the idea of "I'm going to get better even if it's just cleaning my house" is dating the universe to prove me wrong. Better to just work towards the intent without voicing it.
But that also does not feel healthy lol
I am very thankful how you elaborated on Number 3. Because this is not just the case for depression, but in general life as well.
I had a huge falling out with the partner of my sibling recently. During our fight I tried to tell them that I will never understand what it is like to walk in their shoes and vice versa. That we can have empathy for each other, but will never really understand. They just said "this is something we clearly see differently" and to this day I am so confused by that comment. How could they say we see it differently when its clearly a fact that we can never really understand?
Also, I always am cautious about saying "I understand". Usually I try to say something like "I can (only) imagine how you must feel" or "This must be hard for you" instead of bombarding them with something that will make them feel like I just want to talk about myself.
I feel like there needs to be a part 2 to this. I really appreciated this vid
Love all your tips Mickey ❤ Thanks for making videos I can send my friends to explain things I can't!
I really love your videos. Thank you for making mental health more accessible
Nailed it yet again Mickey. So good for me to see what I go through on the screen bringing it out of my psyche and seeing it in the real world. It helps validate that the process is real. Love you so much mate.
Thank you M, you are a shining light❤️
reaaalllyyyy accurate, i shared this on my close friends insta story
Reality is, it's tricky, many contradicting emotions etc.
Personally I appreciate people, most of the time my bf, telling me they are lost too and aren't sure what to say or do. We're all human, acknowledging where our limits are can actually bring us closer together
I feel like being told, both implicitly and explicitly, by others that asking for help is attention seeking also creates a sort of feedback loop into feeling that I don't deserve help or that I'm not worthy of people's time in regards to that.
Lol Me and my husband have become the people that get honest confessions even of passive and active wanting to end themselves. I learned to tell my friend “I’m proud of you for fighting back the thoughts that are constantly there. It must be hard to deal with.” I also remind both of us “no decision will be easy.” Those made made my friend feel heard and appreciated it a lot. My husband is big on not stepping in to help right away. I’ll wait till she advocates for herself or i just ask what she is comfortable with.
Another bitter pill to swallow: yes that one call/message you do or don't send could very well be the final trigger for deciding whether or not to unalive myself. I know that this sucks to hear if you have a friend or family member that went ahead and did it, but it's also a beacon of hope if you are supporting someone that hasn't yet. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
Everyone needs to watch this! Thanks for the knowledge ✨
I love this! This is a great video!
I have an agreement with some of the people around me. Sometimes, when people reach out all the time, it can actually be very burdensome for me, because I feel like I let them down and I know I worry them, but I can't be... happy around them. So we agreed that if I feel that way and they do reach out, I simply send them an emoji to let them know I indeed see them, but I really need my space for a moment. And I also promised if I can, I will reach out and ask them to meet up :).
My partner has been struggling a lot with severe depression. All of your scenarios and advice describe her predicament perfectly. I have been feeling helpless all this time, but this advice might help. Thank you.
Thank you.. so many wordz & thoughtz on this topic. Thank you
I actually agree with every single point and feel a little called out right now ^^'
But overall I'm very thankful for this video, because now I have something to share with my friends to maybe make things easier for all of us? At least as soon as I manage to convince myself that I'm allowed to share stuff and I won't be a nuisance :D
I’m going through a hard time, especially after my mom and dad died. I stopped talking with friends because i don’t want to be a burden and also when i do say I’m depressed, they don’t know what to say, change the subject, or they give advice. You end up feeling more alone with people than being alone.
Thanks for the video. There’s a lot of very astute and helpful advice.
Just a note that especially if you know the person is neurodiverse please ask before sending us lots of check ins. Autistic burnout can look a lot like depression and for me when I am experiencing autistic burnout check in messages can feel very obligatory and stressful and not help me at all.
What should you do when the person who is socially withdrawing does not express what their boundaries are around reaching out to them? I struggle with this a lot because I want to keep my depressed friends aware of the fact that I love them and want them in my life whenever they're ready BUT I have had the case where I specifically ask someone who is beginning to withdraw what they want in terms of reaching out vs. not, and they didn't reply at all. Freaked me out because I was worried about them and then also I'm in a moral quandary of schrodinger's depressed friend, who either wants to hear from me even if they cant' respond and would be worse off if I don't OR who wants to be left alone and will perceive my reaching out as annoying or clingy or patronizing and drive them away.
I have been clinically diagnosed with depression, and so have a few members of my family. I can't deal with their moments because I already can't deal with my own. So in turn, I don't bother other people when I'm going through it because I've never been able to provide help to people who needed it.
It's a whole annoying cycle.
My best friend is from a different country, and mental illness isn't something that her culture believes is valid, unless you are actively homeless and/or without the means to put food into your body. I want to talk about acclimating her to the idea that mental illness is a real thing. I don't say this to contradict the advice in the video. This is not a comparable scenario, specifically because she had little to no understanding of even the concept of mental illness.
When we first started hanging out (we studied for classes we were talking together, in college), I noticed a lot of indicators of mental illness in her behavior, words, and demeanor. I decided to open up to her about my own ongoing struggles with with mental illness, the way that my life was impacted, and how I felt about it and myself, as a result of the mental illness. I also made myself available to answer any questions that she had about mental illness, as long as they can be answered by a layperson. This really helped her see that mental illness doesn't have to be caused by life circumstances.
After we developed an actual friendship, and built mutual trust, I started asking questions about how she was feeling when I noticed changes in her behavior, and lightly drawing parallels to my own mental health struggles. By "lightly drawing parallels," I mean saying things like "I deal with similar thoughts, during my depressive episodes," or "you know, I dealt with a lot of nightmares, as well, before I got on my medication," not "I think you may be dealing with depression and anxiety."
After a while, she started to see, and eventually accept that it was possible that she, too, was struggling with mental illness. It was a little bit magical, because she began feeling comfortable saying that she was "feeling depressed," or "feeling anxious," and I made sure to always validate and honor her feelings, because I understood that her family had not yet come around to embracing the idea of mental illness as a medical diagnosis, rather than a result if events. I also started gently suggesting that maybe talking to a her doctor and a therapist about it would be beneficial. I was careful never to tell her that she "had to" or "should" because nobody likes being told what to do.
Eventually, she felt safe enough to open up and tell me that, in her early teens her whole family had actually been caught up in a horrific natural disaster, in her country of origin, and the impact of that is what caused her family to immigrate here. At this point, we're talking mass trauma quickly followed by personal trauma, and I understood that this was something that I could never relate to. This disclosure did, however, lead to some conversations about trauma, and the effect that it has on mental health. She also began toying with the idea of going to therapy. After this, I kind of became her go-to person when she had questions about mental illness, mental health care, how to explain mental illness to her family, medication, nightmares, and anything else related the subject.
It was five years from me first noticing her mental symptoms to the point when she scheduled her first appointment with a mental health clinician. In those five years, she had come a long way towards accepting that her self-talk was not indicative of her value, as a person. She had also learned that it's okay to cancel plans, or to change them at the last minute, if she didn't feel up to going through with the original plans; in other words, she used to ghost, if she didn't feel up to something, but she had learned that it's okay to say "I don't feel like seeing anyone, today" or "I can't do going out, today. Can we just hang out at my place, instead?" I'm incredibly proud of her progress, but also a little bit sad, because her family still tells her that she has nothing to be depressed about. That said, she now views this as ignorance, and even though it is incredibly dismissive, she doesn't take it to heart.
I also withdraw from family & friends because I feel like I don't want to bring down their moods....I just say I'm not fit to talk to today.
3:55 - 4:15 8:03 - 8:49 Don't mind me. I'm gonna steal these tips. Thank you.
"Cleaning can feel like judgement."
Omg can someone tell this to my mum??
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My other problem is that it's true I don't think I'm worthy of help because I'm so shit at helping other people.
This was so great to hear, especially the later numbers, because I have told someone I don't want to get better but never heard how that's a normal feeling.
I would like to add to the cleaning bit. I wish my partner had recognized, and without asking me to do it, but maybe just asking if something needed to be done, and then stepped up. Like for our shared spaces when I stopped being the only one to clean or help with making sure our kids' appointments were still met, because having it pile up made it harder to get going again.
But I would not have appreciated someone else, like my mom, coming in and cleaning or trying to figure out appointments unless I asked because it would have been like they were taking over and that I wasn't good enough to do those things.
For my partner, it would have been me leaning on them for a period of time.
After 20+ years of Major Depressive Disorder I want to find out what I don't tell people... Because I have been known to tell quite a lot.
Of course as a logician, I know that the inverse of a topic 𝕋 tells us much about 𝕋.
But my condition is made more complex by Autism, ADHD, Giftedness, & my knowledge of the depths of our neoliberal neofascist culture's depravity & my advocacy for Socialism & knowledge of its theory.
good morning Mickey🦋🌞🦋
I'm having a depressive episode now. I have a routine appointment with my psych provider in the morning. I don't want to go. I don't want to expend the energy trying to describe it, or answer his questions. I've usually been okay, and this is the first time this provider will see me depressed. Sigh...
I really need my people. The people I’ve loved the most over the past 30 years. But they said they’d be there when I am “ready to come back.” That just dumped more pain on top of the pain of my worst nightmare coming true.
I tried to make do with other people. Tried to make new friends and find a new tribe, but my trust is irreparably damaged. Now, therapists won’t even waitlist me because I’m so severely untrusting.
I wish my people would reach out but middle age and the self-righteousness of being in our 40s precludes that. Someone told me that I should reach out and apologize for being depressed.
So I’m on blowout. Started the party in January. Doing a few last adventures because I no longer care about the future. Going out with a bang in a few months.
And no, Janine, you’re not getting Blue in my will. Better for him to be donated than end up with you.
Sometimes I feel like If depression is normalised in the surroundings of that person like they are surrounded by depressed people they don’t take it as serious as they are not worse than other person who is very severe. Comparison to others happens with so many mental illnesses or like what constitutes needing help it’s very subjective when you read online. What are your thoughts on that side?
Can you make a mirror 🪞 video on some of us who act as people saviors. I just have a new boyfriend and i think he's depressed. I don't know what's depression but I have an erge to be "helping" people. Yes I'm in therapy for that reason, among others... But now i don't know what to "do". I did find a vido helpfull.
I would like to add a caveat to these people reaching out. Pay attention to how people reach out to you. I don't mean by text or call, I mean whether they're asking something for you or asking something FROM you. I knew someone who used to be a friend, who never contacted me except to bitch and complain about their life and then ask to visit to get away from their mom (because that's a whole can of worms. Both are definitely the ah, but the person I knew was 1,000,000% more so). It was never to see how I was, never hanging out just to hang out, we never did what I wanted. It was all about poor little them.
Don't get used. Pay attention to how they're contacting you.
Anyone here ever read Prozac Nation?