THE Most Misinterpreted Rule! 3 points £100 fine
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2025
- Attitudes shape how we drive, find out the most misinterpreted rule I see,
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Undertaking would be a non-issue if proper lane discipline was followed. Solve the lane discipline problem and you will stop undertaking as well.
Sadly I dissagree. We drive on the A14 a lot and most of the problems are ultimately down to a few drivers not overtaking groups of lorries fast enough. They overtake at just a few mph faster than the lorries. This allows long queues of frustrated drivers who want to drive at 70 to build up behind them. Then someone will decide everyone else has bad lane discipline, undertakes and force their way back out when they run up against the back of the lorries.
I agree with you totally.
@@ColinWatters a problem, but a different problem I think, Colin
@@ColinWatters I agree with you but that's a different matter entirely.
In my life I've learned to look at the size of the "if" in statements like this. So although I agree with the op, I don't think it's in our gift to fix lane discipline. Enforcement is not possible without vigilantism, which is never approved by the authorities.
The police should be concentrating on those in the right hand lane that should be in the left
Totally agree!
It is the idiots who insist calling them "slow lane", "fast lane" etc, such as the narrators on some of the police tv programmes. I recently had a heated discussion with a bafoon in a service station about this. We were on a three lane motorway, I asked him what the speed limit was on each individual lane and obviously it was 70 for each lane. I then asked how could he say one was fast, slow etc., I then pointed out to him about the need to keep left where possible.
Plod should persue this instead arresting and jailing people for silent prayer.
Like the idiot on the video but nothing is done about it so nothing changes.
They definitely seem to be chasing those on the right.
The left get away with anything
Oh wrong video 😂
@@andrewgarner2224 and, if people didn't undertake them, tailgate, weave in and out of traffic, use their phones, etc, then they just might...
People that dont pull left on motorways and hog the overtaking lane are the oneswho should be pulled over and fined .
I would ban them.
Have a look at who drives at 60mph down the middle lane and you'll see exactly why the police won't do anything about it.
@@typhoon2827 Although the police record statistics for careless driving, they do not automatically subdivide these in "lane hogging". However, since the rules were tightened up 10 years ago, the number prosecuted is probably around a thousand.
@@richardsutton01 yeah, like I said, have a look at who is driving at 60mph in the middle lanes and you'll see why the police won't do anything about it.
@@typhoon2827 Ok, I've noted it over the years and it's mostly women (of all ages), old men and a few ethnic minorities...but not always. What is it about this demographic that makes police not want to do anything about it? I think it's more a case of there are far too many people doing it and far too few police. There should be a system of cameras recognising it and issuing automatic fines. For the first year or two it would probably pay off the national debt.
How slow is traffic before it's a queue? If you can't give an answer then it's subjective and will be debated.
around walking speed
@@MrSkeptik-z5r if a car brakes on the 3rd lane of a motorway at 30mph, and you're in the 1st lane, you would brake to avoid passing on the left because it's faster than walking speed
Every competent motorist knows when they are in a queue and when they are not.
But we're talking about a *legal definition*.
There is no legal definition for a cue...
Its subjective and has multiple options choices.
As you can class two vehicles in one lane as being in a cue.. just as two hundred..
Also one car could be a que, just as one person in a line at the shops is technically a que...
Most people will convict themselves by talking with police.
Shut up, give them your documents. Dont even speak about weather. Your not being rude or ignorant, you alao have no legal obligation to convict yourself or do the police's job for them... @TonyWhitley
1:13. Get out of the overtaking lane. You are not overtaking, you are lane hogging. What the van is doing is not careless driving and 100% legal. It's you is Careless Driving.
Incredibile... Not only are you completely ignorant of the rules in the first place, you apparently also missed the entire video where the rules are explained so that even a complete moron can understand them.
That's an impressive display of dumbfuckery!
Another thing is what happens if the person in lane 2 slows down to the point you're making progress is over taking them? What am I supposed to do slam my brakes on to match their speed or less so i can overtake behind them to the right? Imo that is going to cause a crash more than making REASONABLE progress.
You shouldn't need to "slam your brakes on" if you are paying attention whilst driving. You should notice that you are catching them up, realise instantly that means you are moving faster than they are, and take the appropriate action to overtake them on the right in plenty of time.
This just sounds like a shit excuse frankly.
Not driving in the real world, if someone is lane hogging in lane 3 of a motorway doing 50mph and everyone else behind them in lane 1 & 2 s doing 60mph there is absolutely no way everyone is just going to slow down and move over to lane 3 and sit behind the lane hogger, it may be illegal but most people would simply carry on driving and undertake the lane hogger.
I actually got pulled over because a lane hogger in the middle lane was doing 50 and I was doing 60 with a trailer. From the "slow" lane I pulled out to the middle lane behind the hogger and waited there flashing for a few minutes. Eventually I overtook to the right staying below 60. I was pulled over for using the rh lane.!!!
@OliverSmith-j6d Exactly.....I bet if you just stayed in the left lane (slow lane)just plodding doing your 60mph nothing would have happened.
Came here to say exactly this. I do what's safer for me and my family when driving. And if I'm in the situation you describe then what's safer? Carry on in lane 1 at 65mph and "undertake" the idiot in lane 3 doing 50mph (who is 2 lanes away from me) or slow down, pull into lane 3 (crossing 2 lanes of traffic) and wait for him to move over (which isn't going to happen is it?) and let traffic come screaming up behind me at 70-80mph?
According to the law, the former is dangerous driving and the latter is not. Utter madness.
@@OliverSmith-j6d If you are towing you arn't allowed to use the rh lane
If 2 cars in lane 3 are doing 50mph then that is congested. In that case those in lanes 2 and 1 can undertake.
I'm sure I remember reading many years ago in the Highway Code if someone is misusing the middle lane it's safer to maintain your lane rather than change lane 4 times to pass them.
Has this changed?
@oxonomy2372 it would depend on conditions. Very busy then yes could be the better option but depends again what speed the lane hogger is travelling
@@JamesSimpkinsADIYou said it depends on what speed the lane hogger it travelling. So on a 70mph motorway what speed would it be that would not be classed as careless driving to do an undertake?
@@TonyMcDonald-gs6lu I'm nearly sure its 43.755mph or less. Any faster would not be legal to pass on inside. On a 60mph dual carriageway it is 38.017mph 😂😂😂
@@Seanmcdhuibhne 🤣🤣🤣
The big problem with this rule and interpretation is that if you are driving in the left lane and someone overtakes you in the middle lane and slows down, you are then obliged to also slow down. If you are driving steadily (esp with cruise control), this is very annoying and sometimes hard to avoid. I would also note that flashing your headlights to move someone out the way can be interpreted as aggressive behaviour and the police will likely stop you for it if they see it.
They will interpret it as aggressive behaviour if the rest of your driving is aggressive - catch quickly, tailgate, flash repeatedly - welcome to your ticket.
Sit 2 seconds behind, flash - you've not broken a law, and followed the highway code to the letter, as explained in the video.
@@RacingAntflashing light even 2sec behind i have had cars then put their brakes on, and I then overtake them if safe to do so to get away from these drivers
@@damindra drivers may react badly to it, as they have very fragile egos, but the police won't.
@RacingAnt at night they are even worse on empty motorways and if I cannot be bothered I will pass them on the left but will move across 3 lanes too, bet they get blinded when I do flash them as I have very bright led headlights, probably confuses them
@@RacingAntin the video, one of the instances of “inconsiderate or careless driving” in the MP’s list is “Flashing lights to force other drivers to give way”. I think Driving Instructor UK was possibly wrong to suggest this. If you want to be totally scrupulous in observing the law you probable have to sit behind him at a safe distance until he wakes up and spots you.
These rules are so easily abused, it is stupid. If I decide I am going to be an arsehole today I can jump on the M1 and drive in lane 3 at 25mph, now everyone in lane 1 and 2 has to match my speed or risk getting 3 points and a fine?
You talk about two wrongs don't make a right, but we shouldn't have laws that catch out innocent people because of someone else's malicious actions.
But you can flash them apparently, even though you shouldn't!
@@worldofrandometry6912 Flashing your lights to warn other road users of your presence is specifically permitted under the Highway Code.
Driving at 25mph on the M1 would certainly fail the driving test when it comes to DVSA standards but legally there is nothing preventing it other than the *opinion* of a police officer who can choose to think that you are driving 'not in proper control of a vehicle/without due care and attention' or even worse, dangerous driving. This, if fought in court, requires evidence
Simply, there should be a minimum speed limit of 56mph (i do 56mph behind a lorry when I'm tight on money and want to chill with self driving on) and the negative stigma of undertaking should be wiped out. If someone is doing 65mph in lane 3 and lane 2 is clear, I will undertake you no two ways about it.
Driving above the speed limit is a criminal offence but driving below it in an unsafe and dangerous manner isn't, other than if a police officer thinks you are carelessly or dangerously driving which a conviction for is rare unless of course, you are going over the speed limit because easy evidence and easy money.
@@audify3833 And if a police car, possibly unmarked, is behind you and not on a shout then there's a good chance that they will pull you over for careless driving because you've committed a driving offence, no two ways about it. 😀
@@richardsutton01 And not the guy doing 25mph in lane 1 in this scenario? Albeit a very extreme example, technically we are both driving without due care and attention but one requires the opinion of an officer
At the start of the video why was the camera car in the right-hand lane ?
Because he thinks lane hogging is acceptable.
The thing you're missing is the language at the start of the highway code rule it says 'You should...' it does not say 'You must...'. 'You must...' implies the legal imperative. While 'You should...' does not.
Good point. I'd also ask if the rules/guides define exactly what constitutes a queue and slow moving traffic. I'm not disagreeing with the rules but any vehicle slower than you could be defined as 'slow moving' and a queue as one vehicle behind another which could apply to any single lane of traffic.
@@Elwaves2925I completely agree. What exactly is meant by a "slow moving queue" and interestingly, a "fast moving queue"? Lol I appreciate the guy making this video has had his training and is taught to see things a certain way but not all rules are perfect and some just need to be either amended or done away with entirely.
@@ThatEnglishGent Yes, for a rule to be fully effective as a rule, it needs to have all subjectiveness and ambiguity removed.
@@Elwaves2925"I'd also ask (...) slow moving traffic."
Agreed. I think the speed limit would be a reasonable benchmark.
@@Elwaves2925unfortunately British law is full of ambiguity. It’s done on purpose.
At 6.30 in the video you miss a point where the description says in 'congested conditions where adjacent traffic is moving at similar speeds' on motorways you can have 3 or more lanes moving at similar speeds NOT in a que (it says similar speeds no mention of a que, congestion yes but not a que) then you may keep up with traffic in your lane, an example would be any major motorway really but in particular the M25 Heathrow and surrounding junctions , this happens daily at speeds of many ranges, 10 20 30 40 .. where in fact cars are passing on the left in their lane ( i have seen police do it also, many times) if no one did then it would literally become its nickname (a car park) My point is after reading the statement you immediately say congestion so coming back to ques and slow moving traffic.... it says nothing of slow or ques it says congestion and similar speeds.. i think you need to re think your statement at that point, everything else i agree your spot on but not at that point
i forgot ... you also say congestion is not just a lower speed...... well thats is very debateable as i have seen on many occasions overhead warnings saying congestion.. slow down...... followed by several of the overhead gantry's showing a reduction from 50 to 40 !...........you go on to say the cam car is wrong.... clearly its wrong because the road conditions are not particularly congested in fact as cam car proceeds you can clearly see quite a lot of open space in the lanes to the right.... cam car was wrong because he was overtaking what really were lane hogs in that section and therefore not reading the road situation that he was in
In congested conditions is a guidance, so what it means is irrelevant. The HC doesn't say you must not overtake on the left except in congested traffic. It's a do not rule and is not a legal requirement.
Yes, lets slow down EVERYONE behind me doing 60 because some muppet doing 50 on the right wont move over
happens all the time on the A329M sometimes it is even down to 40 mph due to muppets using the right side lane as it is safer while they are on the phone.
Just undertake, but do it slowly. It is not illegal in itself, just in combination with careless or dangerous driving. It’s not the same as jumping lights, speeding or using a phone which actually ARE illegal all by themselves.
@@Tailspin80 Yep. It's NOT illegal purposefully for that reason. People are forced to do it,otherwise every motorway and dual carriage way woukd be chocker all the time and only moving at 50 or 60 mph. If done safely It's o.k. If done unsafely then it becomes an offence.
I think the instructors making this kind of video just do it to create attention and debate. There's a huge difference legally speaking in the highway code's "Should" and "must" wording.
@@CreatureOfTheVoid Then it goes from ONE lane being hogged to two or even three lanes being hogged- because the two drivers to the left of said lane hogged have to slow down and sit there to their left just behind them at 55 or 60 for 50 miles or so untill they turn off.
@ It’s more because there are situations where undertaking is allowed (in slow moving queues etc) and it’s impossible to draw a line legally between that and where it is not allowed. Careless driving is catch all offence for anything the police don’t like, whereas things that can be measured and defined precisely (speeding, red light jump etc) are specific offences.
A queue could be 2 cars. So if there's a queue to the right then those to the left can legally pass.
2:24 At the top of the page it states that "You should", not "you must" which it always states if something is outright illegal. So my interpretation of this is that it is _not_ illegal, but nevertheless ill advised and could lay you open to careless driving charges if such a case can be made against you. Do you think the authorities could make a case for careless driving on a three lane road where the lane hogger is in the outside lane and you are in the inside lane, there is no other traffic and you gradually overtake simply because you are faster than them?
The Driving Instructor mentions "careless driving" in the first minute of his video so has covered this off.
If there was 6 lanes between you in lane 1 and the hogger in lane 8 he would still say you are driving without due care and attention if you undertook the hogger.
Its a highway code, not the law. Thats why i drive on the right 😂.
@@PooheadProductions Oh dear. 🤣
@@richardsutton01 He is wrong though. Not all driving instructors know that undertaking is legal
If someone is driving at 50mph in lane 3 on a motorway, what do you do?
Do you just sit there in lane 1 or 2?
What if there is a hill and the person in lane 3 drops to 40mph, do you then need to drop to 40 too (just so you do not pass them), even though the road in front of you is completely clear.
It's not congested traffic, so I presume you just have to slow down and never pass.
According to this video yes, you slow down and make sure not to undertake the car going 40 in the right hand lane on a 70mph road as it would be against the law and could get you 3 points and a fine.
Yes, although if traffic behind is approaching at 70mph I would have no moral issue with passing them in lane 1 (leaving a buffer in lane 2) and then defending my actions in court if required - I'm not going to sit around and wait to be rear ended by an HGV just because somebody doesn't know how to change gear or change lane. In that situation slowing down and waiting for them to move over increases the risk so I think it's acceptable to reduce that risk by taking action, but if there's nothing behind and no risk in slowing down to wait then I would simply move in to the lane behind them and flash my lights until they woke up, which in my experience is more likely to make them angry than compliant but there's no other option available to people without blue lights on their car.
To avoid breaking the law, the unfortunate answer is yes, that is your only possible law abiding option at that moment in time. The "solution" posited in the video is to flash your lights to make the driver of the lane hogging vehicle aware of your presence. In my experience this has around a 50% chance of working, but unfortunately maybe a 10% chance of making the lane hogger angry and aggressive with sudden breaking / slowing down even more etc. (not a problem as I don't tail gate). Due to this though, I don't normally bother. I prefer stress free driving so I keep my distance and wait it out, hoping that they driver behind me doesn't get angry. Sometimes it really is a no win situation.
@@NeilDeBarna I was actually surprised that near the end of the video he said to flash your lights constantly towards the slow moving driver as it could quite easily cause an altercation as you could be seen as being the aggressor to the car in front.
@@jkd91 flashing the headlights is definitely more dangerous than undertaking. Really poor advice I 've ever seen. Now this is the era anyone can post anything on UA-cam
The takeaway here is: when rules are stupid and contradictory, people will justify ignoring them.
Are you serious? What about the rules quoted above is either stupid or contradictory? They're perfectly clear and sensible. The stupidity comes in when self-entitled knobheads don't obey them.
Just at 10:25 it clearly say you can pass on the left.
@@davidproctor857 IF the traffic in front is signalling right OR you are moving slowly in queues. Where's the ambiguity in that? (Unless, like most people around here, you think "moving slowly" is doing less than 50mph 😠)
No, the video can be resumed to Do not do this ua-cam.com/video/0QHBf3lb85E/v-deo.html
The rules are crystal clear to some of us. It's the drivers who don't think the rules are clear who fall into the stupid and contradictory category.
What’s the definition of “slow”? What about when you’re in 50 mph traffic on a motorway where you often find congested traffic moving at the speed limit but the left lane is moving slightly faster than the others. Rule 268 means you can perfectly legally overtake on the left.
What speed is congested conditions on a 50mph, 2 or 3 lane dual carriageway? Is it the same on a 70mph DC?.
@JamesSimpkinsADI
Q1. Is what the van in lane 1 did illegal?
Q2. If you had have been behind a large truck how would you know if your lane had became congested?
@@saundersdachicken6197 1) not illegal but the Highway Code says only overtake on the right. So it could be seen as careless driving if a traffic officer was around.
2) I would following at a distance that this would not be a problem to deduce, plus the speed would of course drop considerably
@JamesSimpkinsADI
So you're saying it is classed as careless driving if a cop sees it or not. In the CPS it's in the same list as talking to a passenger or turning on or off or adjusting your electrical equipment like your AC or radio etc. They are only considered as Careless Driving only if they were done carelessly. The CPS does not say undertaking alone as your video shows is CD. I all depends on the facts. There is no facts to prove this undertake is CD.
If the van instead of undertaking slowed down and was along side you at the same speed and you moved into that lane without due care and attention do you think the van would be at fault if you caused a collision?
@@JamesSimpkinsADI
"Only overtake on the left" is not a MUST rule. Sandersdachicken is correct. You're advised to undertake only in congested conditions and even at that congested does not define any speed. Because somebody might do something stupid doesn't mean someone else would be doing the same. If a driver was to change to a lane on their right doesn't mean the driver already in that lane is stupidly and carelessly overtaking.
@ ua-cam.com/users/shortsRJO1kAY4a9c?si=kswQnbrtEdq73U4A
That proves nothing.
Lane 1 of the 4 Lane sections of the M25 is often empty whilst lanes 3 and 4 are full of tailgating idiots going slower than i am. Its far safer in these scenarios to stay in lane 1 even if you are going faster than them and effectively undertaking.
M25 and M1, though it seems to be getting a bit better on the M1 these days.
I have done this. Sit in lane 1 at 70mph, lanes 2 & 3 empty. Lane 4 traffic doing 50mph. That is the only time I see passing on the left outside queues as not undertaking.
@@kevinabbott3890I've literally just posted about this as I got pulled for undertaking 20+ cars as I was in lane 1 and lane 4 was speeding up and slowing down due to nose to tail
I'm often on the M25 late at night, and it's absolutely plagued by people driving at 60 in lane 3 of a mostly empty motorway. Is it really safer for me to continually weave from lane 1 to lane 4 and back again every mile or so to pass them, than to stay in my lane, with a full lane between us, and carefully pass being very aware that the other driver probably has no idea I'm there because he's on his phone?
This is what the trucks do all the time.
Dual carriageway, speed limit 70mph, that applies to both lanes. Car in right hand lane doing 45 with no intention of moving over to left. Surely a car in left hand lane doing 65 has the right to pass ?
Hold on one moment, congestion could mean fast moving congestion, in which case you are not breaking any rules.
Congestion just means where the lane you are in is not progressing faster than the lane on the left, in which case you should be in the left hand lane.
Also the right hand lanes are for overtaking and for turning right, you should not be sitting in the right hand lanes just to drive along.
So if we are talking about rules being broken, many drivers simply sit in the right hand lane because they have a fast car, thus bolcking everyone esle from progressing.
One other thing is bicycles and motorcycles, the rules are supposed to be identical for passing these as well however cars never obey the rules when it comes to passing motorcycles and ofter break the rules when passing cycles.
Filtering is permitted on a motorcycle which means there is always a vehicles on the left and the right curiouser and curiouser.
But if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slower than the traffic in the left hand lane then clearly the right hand lane is congested as it is the overtaking lane, which means so long as you don't change lanes to do so you are not doing anything wrong.
The cops do it all the time.
No harm, no foul.
Are you saying that I'm breaking the law if I'm steadily driving in the left lane at 70, and a bunch of racers in the right lane suddenly slow down below my speed, causing me to pass them without even changing my speed?
@@TheLondekZdroj no as overtaking on the left is not illegal, so you wouldn’t be breaking the law. But the advice is that you still don’t overtake on the left
@@JamesSimpkinsADI
What about if those racers are in lane 4 or 5. Would I be committing the offence of Careless Driving which is an offence?
@@JamesSimpkinsADI
You said it's careless driving. Isn't that committing a criminal offence? And isn't committing that offence illegal to do so?
@ careless driving can be slapped on many things that fall below a standard. Overtaking on the left is an example of something that might get you charged with careless driving. So is hogging a middle or overtaking lane. They come under the same thing.
@@JamesSimpkinsADI
Yes undertaking "might" get you charged for careless driving if and only if the standard of driving fell well below to the standard expected from a competent and careful driver. Passing on inside as shown in your video is not CD, no matter how many lanes between. Constant lane changing too close to vehicles between the overtake may get you charged under CD.
Be very careful flashing headlights at lane hoggers. This might be interpreted as an offence. According to the UK Police’s own website, “Some examples of careless or inconsiderate driving are….. flashing lights to force other drivers to give way”.
I guess it comes down to interpretation of whether your repeated flashing could be interpreted by a police officer as “forcing”
0:08 what exactly are you overtaking before moving back to the left lane
40 mph on a 70 dual carriageway is slow moving IMO and legal to undertake according to Driving instructor. So is driving at 40mph on a DC that has a 40mph limit, slow moving?
Queue [noun]: a line of people, usually standing or in cars, waiting for something. All the cars in the right lane are there because they are waiting to overtake the tractor. Thus by definition they are a queue.
@JamesSimpkinsADI There is no present law, (yes I said LAW) in the highway code that says bikers lane filtering is committing the offence of Careless Driving. So how can a biker that has a lane to him/herself be charged for committing the offence of undertaking?
Another point is, I'm in lane 1and the front wheel of my car is in line with the back left wheel on a car in lane 2. That car without due care and attention changes into my lane and hits the side of my car. How can you say I am committing the offence of Careless Driving because of someone else making a careless manouver?
@@RayRoberts-y9g in that situation if there was a traffic officer around, let’s face it they’re going to pull over the car that’s nearly gone into you, not yourself
@@RayRoberts-y9g agreed but bikes filtering is again in congested conditions.
@@JamesSimpkinsADI
For lane filtering a cop may pull you in to advise you on what you should do like reduces speed. The same cop may have never rode a motorbike. But if that biker in lane 1 with nothing in front or in lanes 2 or 3 was to pass a car that's in lane 4 according to you he, the biker would be committing the criminal offence of Careless Driving! That is where you were incorrect and many commenters who disagreed with you were right.
You should read up on - *Road Traffic - Fatal Offences and Bad Driving*. It states the following "may" depend on the facts and circumstances of each individual case amount to CD and or DD.
It gives a list of what "may" amount to dangerous, and careless driving. One of them was reading a newspaper/map, talking to and looking at passenger, selecting and lighting a cigarette, or adjusting the controls of electrical equipment such as a radio, hands free mobile phone or satellite navigation equipment, overtaking on the left. So it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt that the standard of driving fell well below to the standard expected from a competent and careful driver. The code is advising you to do the undertaking in slow moving or congested traffic. The description I gave, whether a car was any amount of lanes to the right does NOT fall under Careless Driving.
Good video. Rule 268, however, does not say slow moving traffic but congested conditions and there are often times a busy periods, particularly on a motorway, where traffic is well beyond the design capacity of the road but is travelling at say 30,40, or 50mph with traffic in different lanes see-sawing in speed. 268 , in my view, recognises this situation and allows overtaking on the left as we see often on congested motorways because it does not state the word queue and it does not say slow moving either. If there is apparent conflict between 2 rules, the driver must legally be allowed the most favourable interpretation. The Highway Code is admissible in court but I have never seen the DVLA guidance so used and I do not think that it is otherwise than helpful guidance.
Yes, I was going to make this point but you made it, so thanks, saves me having to type it all out!
Why was the van and the driver with the camera not in the left lane. The so called tracter was a long way away.
was thinking the same....
Was that not the person talking in the video and both vehicles hogging the second lane
..so according to DVSA should be charged for careless driving
Its called forward planning, all good drivers are capable of this act
@@wiganer9912 So I could just stay in lane 3 knowing I will eventually pass a car in lane 1 or 2. All in the spirit of forward planning.
@@wiganer9912no it's not - good planning is identifying the gap at the right time based on closing speed. They should be in lane 1 still
So a few questions/ hypotheticals/queries?
Rule 268 mentions in congested conditions, nothing to do with queues just congested conditions. What are congested conditions, because it's not just queues?
For example - Motorway signage "Congestion use hard shoulder" Rule 268 implies that as it is congested conditions(sign just told you) you can pass on the left, even though the traffic could still be doing 50 to 60mph. So if outer lanes are traveling slower you can pass on the left to keep up with the flow of traffic in your lane that is traveling a little faster? Correct?
So same principle on a dual carriage way. 70mph in lane 1, those in lane 2 also doing 70mph, everyone's winning. Lane 2s flow starts to slow up to say 60 mph, so you in lane 1 also slow to 60mph. Lane 2's flow slows again to 50mph as there are more vehicles in it, so you in lane 1 slow to 50mph even with nothing in front off you.
At what point does it become congested conditions? and then when does it become a queue? In this grey area of the rules, when can you pass on the left as who defines congestion? A road not flowing smoothly and slower than it's design speed is congested by my definition.
If a lane was closing you get in lane early in flowing traffic or you can use all available road until the close if it's queuing. The above example, you slow down in lane 1 to match lane 2, if lane 2 stops, do you stop as well even if there's a mile before the closure and no one in front of you? Of course you don't you proceed safety to the merge in turn point. So when does that cross over occur?
I think the woolly grey area is where it causes confusion. You shouldn't unless these criteria are met, but there's no defined measure for that criteria it's up to drivers interpretations?
Would be interested on you opinion.
So in The highway code you can pass on the left in slow moving traffic how slow is slow 50, 40 or 30 or something else?
I was about to make the same comment. The pedantic/frustrated barrister in me says does slow equal 20 but 21 equals fast? I thought the law relied on objective analysis not subjective.
A question that's been asked many many times, by others yet not one legitimate answer can he give. Even if there was an answer it's only advise on what speed it should be done at.
If I was on a 2 lane motorway, inside lane doing 70mph and there are 3 or more cars in the outer lane doing 65mph, that would be deemed a queue, so I would under take those idiots.
The government's own web site states that the only rules in the highway code which are specifically offences are ones prefixed with Must/ Must Not. Should and Do Not are open to interpretation depending on the situation.
If you do not use an inner lane to underake as in this video then you are part of the problem of lane congestion.
Spot On. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He thinks lane hogging is legal and undertaking is illegal. Two wrongs makes it two wrongs.
With only 2 cars on the motorway Its rediculious to say the car in lane 1 cannot undertake the one that's hogging lane 4.
Agree, doesnt matter how many lanes are in between 2 vehicles he is saying undertaking is Careless Driving. Then he said he never mentioned it being illegal, that's one thing he's correct on, but he forgets or doesn't know that CD is an offence and illegal.
I agree with flashing in the Right-hand lane. However, in this day and age, I have some concerns that the front driver will take offence and brake check me.
It has always been illegal to lane hog - so if the police enforced this law, the lane hogs would soon stop doing it.
The more I see some of these rules, the more I've become convinced that they're written by people who've never actually driven on a road! 🤣🤣
@@simongray2533 🤣
So, I am driving my HGV at 56mph on lane one of a not very busy three-lane motorway. There is a car in lane two doing 50mph. I would keep going and pass them on the left.
I've been in this same situation many times, as a HGV driver also. I will not move behind the slow mover in a bid to make them move over, nor flash my lights, or blast my horn at them, nor tailgate them to try to intimidate them into moving back to the left lane. I just stay in my lane and carefully pass them on the inside after giving them ample opportunity to see that they're causing an obstruction to traffic flow. We haven't got all day or night to dawdle with our restricted hours and restricted engine limiters.
Lane hogging should be ruthlessly weeded out, especially when said lane hoggers are driving slower than our lorries max speed. I've only ever witnessed one driver get pulled for this and the police gave them every opportunity to comply, even using their rear sign board to display 'Keep left unless overtaking' before they were pulled over and dealt with.
The rules don't work practically on 4 or 5 lane motorways .
Totally agree, yet there are some commenters who think it's illegal to undertake if there was 20 lanes and the hogger is in the outmost lane.
The simple answer is to make it compulsory to move into the left lane if there is no traffic in font of you in the " fast " lane.
Wouldn't you just end up with all the traffic in 1 lane?
This is the case now, left lane for driving, the other lanes are for overtaking. I often see Teslas in the middle lane with nothing to the left, I assume their auto pilot drives that way for some reason.
It already is compulsory.
So how big a gap is no traffic in front of you in the left lane? Very very rarely is there no traffic in front of you and changing lanes is a risk. So you don't want to pull left into a small gap only to have to pull out 5 or ten seconds later.
Also if you are doing 70 you are not in the way of anyone except occasional emergency vehicles (for whom you should obviously pull in) so what is the problem?
@@daveansell1970 the problem is the law, telling you to keep left unless overtaking. Firstly, if your car says 70mph you are most likely doing 63mph due to speeds being overread, and different cars are more or less accurate, so you sitting at 70 blocking the road might actually be doing a little over 60mph and causing a huge tailback which *is* a risk. Changing lanes is only a risk if you don't know how to use mirrors and blind spot checks. Lane hogging is more of a risk due to the problems it causes. If you are scared to change lane, I suggest some advanced driving lessons as they focus a lot on motorway and dual carriageway driving and it may improve your confidence.
Secondly it's not up to you to decide who is allowed to pass you. Emergency vehicles don't have to have blue lightsnon in order to break the speed limit, there are lots of reasons why they might want to go unnoticed. Add to that the possibility of medical emergencies and the fact that lane hogging is illegal and your justification of "you're not holding anybody up" is exactly the sort of dangerous nonsense this video is trying to dispell.
If the vehicle in the right lane is 30 under the limit and won't move over, I have to match their speed in the left lane, blocking more traffic, and cannot overtake?! What a load of shit. Obviously I'm missing something crucial about UK roadways..
Didn't watch to the end? He tells you what you should do to encourage the lane hogger to pull over.
@@tufferstv You mean the "flash you lights" bit? What a great way to invite a road rage incident.
Does it matter that most of the instructions here use the word should instead of must?
How fast can a slow moving queue be? 30 or 40 on the motorway?? What is a queue? How close do cars have to be to be in a queue?
@@ANDREWSCOTT-e5i and that is the million dollar question! On a motorway there is a bit more wiggle room hence to wording in rule 268. However you would need to be in queues moving at similar speeds for an overtake on the left to be ok. As it says congested conditions it would not be a free flowing busy motorway.
I see this on the Wellington Urban Motorway northbound in NZ... right lanes continue onto SH2, at peak times being congested and slowing to near walking pace. Left lanes are usually free-flowing, continuing onto SH1. The slowdown is often pretty gradual over a km or so; it's very hard to argue at what point it suddenly becomes a 'queue' or 'slow moving'.
Especially difficult since the area is controlled by variable speed signs that are ignored completely. So the traffic starts at 80-100km/h well above the 60 limit (100 when no congestion) and is going
@@someonesomewhere1240 This happens all the time on the M61 near Manchester where the motorway splits to go East and West. Again it happens over a mile or so and the right hand two lanes are moving slowly together but the leftmost lane is running at 50mph - rules dont align with common road conditions....
@@JamesSimpkinsADI Being in queues of traffic have no bearing on undertaking being legal. Is it illegal to do 70mph while undertaking a slower vehicle hogging lane 4 at 55mph?
I successfully argued a similar situation in court. I joined motorway from acceleration Lane at a speed of 68 mph.
As I joined the cars on the two right lanes had started to brake as they some how became all bunched up.
Behind me was multiple vehicles also...
The vehicles in two right hand lanes were slowing down to see an accident on the opposite side of motorway.
My lane was free for as long as can see..
Police stopped me and tried the undertaking game..
With video evidence of speed and front and rear cameras I pleaded not guilty and explained that if I had braked to check my speed to go slower than the traffic in the right lanes I would have been creating a dangerous situation...
I was found not guilty.
My other thing was not talking to police when stopped.
Fair play to the police for trying to enforce the rules. Which court did it go to?
Actually yes i would mind uploading it, simply because none of it is digital format for youtube and as its a case from almost 20 years back i am not going to start digging into attic for a video of a simple event. Besides posting the clip does not prove anything,
The court is where the case was discussed and won. Without suitable evidence id have just taken the points as there is no way to argue differently. @zbf5h89ftb
@@ChrisCaaaI'd not say fair play to police.. as again it's another instance where they don't see the whole picture nor listen to what you say by the roadside, they just issue you with penalty and say argue in court..
Did not bother me, as I won court costs and then issued civil action against the two officers and their employer and 16 months later I received a quite large payment.
As I also had to claim for loss of earnings, assault, kidnapp and some other minor issues..
@@evelghostrider good for you. So they ignored the rubberneckers slowing down in the outer lanes. What was the assault? and kidnap! Seriously.
Id came of acceleration lane about 75 , lifted of and coasted from the 75 to just above 65.
I had remained in the left hand lane as id noticed all the slowing vehicles to my right. Behind me there was quite a few vehicles at my speed also joining.
Some tried pulling over to the right lanes foe some reason. As i would be leaving at next junction id no need to use right lanes..
About a half a mile on, police appeared behind me, most vehicles were slowing down on my right, some braking quite hard to see accident...
In my mirror id about 8 vehicles still behind me. So if id braked hard to match traffic speed on my right, id most likely have caused an accident.
About another quarter mile they hit me with blue lights, just at my junction i was getting off at.
I pulled off motorway and stopped asap.
They did usual, The reason we are stopping you is for undertaking. .
I just said ok, thats your choice.. they said have you nothing to say.
So i explained ive video evidence front and rear and of my speed, i explained how id joined and the cars to my right were slowing down to see a serious accident. .
I explained i did not want to cause an accident or be involved in another one if id braked hard to reduce my speed to less than those on my right.
I also said makes no difference wht i say to you, as you will still charge me, i will argue the case to judge not two traffic officers as your not the people who decide whats rite or wrong..
I had to call both officers to stand to ask them many questions and ask for their evidence.
What way they explained the situation allowed me to get off with no charge. As the words they used i had them explain the legal meaning of under oath. So what they said proved my case and situation correct and their stop not correct.
@MartinBennett-rs6thrasher
An example of careless and inconsiderate driving in the text at 11:41 states 'flashing lights to force other drivers to give way', yet you state if you're in the situation where the vehicle is going slower, to avoid overtaking on the left you will pull out behind them and flash your lights. Can you explain how this is perfectly acceptable in your words rather than ambiguous text being interpreted to your advantage? Thanks.
@@pettofficial. yeah no problem I have a video scheduled tonight where I explain what I’m talking about as opposed to forcing others to give way. I met 3 police officers this week and asked if they thought I was suggesting something wrong. They all agreed it’s ok in the manner that I’m talking about.
@JamesSimpkinsADI thanks for the reply, it wasn't meant as obnoxious but more echoing the 2 wrongs making a right situation. I assume it's meaning someone flying up behind someone flashing their lights just because they want you to move over when you're legally overtaking within the limits, happens all the time.
Also I guess this is more about interpretation of the text, which is a common theme for the highway code.
One more area of undertaking that wasn't covered here is where the left lane is designated as another route and separate from the right lane by (I think) short lane markings close together. Not sure of the right of it but I think it is allowed in this case. 17:33
Wrong and wrong
It should be allowed.
I have heard other UA-cam driving instructors say this is ok. I think it's more dangerous than normal undertaking because of people exiting late.(Happens all the time. I assume when people don't know where they are going). I try to only do it if traffic is queuing on the other lanes but I think it's risky even then because of people changing lanes to take a diversion
If I am on the motorway and doing the speed limit in the left lane, and approaching a slower lane hogger in the middle lane, if it is safe for me to do so I will move across to the outside lane and pass the lane hogger. Once past them and leaving a reasonable gap between us I will then indicate left and move across the middle lane back to the left lane. Quite often this seems to give them a hint to move to the left lane.
I've never seen it work and I drive on motorways almost every single day
Never seen anyone take the hint. Gave up trying, I either pass on the left (staying in the same lane as I'd always been and less than or equal to the speed limit) or flash my lights at them.
Yh me personally, I feel it's more dangerous to have to go out 2 lanes to overtake, especially when sometimes you come upon them quicker than you anticipate, and to slow down too fast to get around could potentially cause an accident behind you.
Overtaking on the left is still overtaking.
Undertaking is dealing with the deceased.
@@FirstNameLastName-ev3jk spot on. The term undertaking doesn’t exist in official literature. People think there is a difference between passing on the left and undertaking. There isn’t
@@FirstNameLastName-ev3jk brilliant!
Met police state flashing your lights as careless or inconsiderate driving so your advice is to be careless and inconsiderate!. So much for the 2 wrong dont make a right.
I would say stay away from this channel, stay away from dangerous driver, and stay away from so-called Driving Instructor. All at once
Flashing your lights in this situation is permitted in the highway code.
@@richardsutton01 I was once stopped for flashing my light and told that it could be seen as aggressive intimidating behaviour.
Flashing your headlights has a permission. But when your behind other road users then flashing your lights at them can be a violation of the road traffic act.
Just like sounding your horn at another driver who did something silly. Do not use your horn as a rebuke.
@@NorthWestOutlaws And indeed it can as it all depends upon the circumstances. Flashing your lights or blowing your horn to "teach another driver a lesson" is never acceptable. Flashing a lane hogger driving below the speed limit in the overtaking lane is acceptable. In the middle lane it is not acceptable as you have the overtaking lane available.
My answer to chilled driving is 60mph, you will find 90% of the time your lane is empty. Everyone is moving faster so the accidents will always be ahead. Plus you save money on fuel and only arrive a few minutes later, relaxed with the price of a coffee in your pocket. I think the flashing of headlights, is more likely to get you brake checked or killed in this world we live in, not forgetting the person you are flashing already doesn’t care about the law!!
One of my previous jobs entailed an 80-mile commute to the office; much of it on the motorway. After many journeys arriving to work already feeling stressed and irritable, I adopted a policy of never entering lane 3. It's amazing what a difference that made to my state of mind; I no longer got frustrated by slower-moving vehicles, as I'd already resigned myself to being more patient. It also meant I drastically reduced the number of times I became a victim of tailgating or flashing headlights, along with associated road rage behaviour. As an added bonus, I saved fuel. I simply chilled-out, listening to Classic FM or Radio 4, and arrived at the office feeling totally calm and relaxed!
100%. I did this in my old car, 56/57mph behind a truck. It's not just the money, it's the fact you have to pay less attention. You never really have to overtake, you never have to slow down, you don't have to be thinking "ahead". Will that car pull out on me? Will I need to move over? Do I need to move back a lane... you find it's far less taxing on the mind, meaning you get to your destination far, far less tired. People think it's strange I would do 400 mile journeys every few days... "don't you get tired?". Errrm no, it's relaxing, not stressful to drive. Unfortunately, due to "smart" motorways, poor lane discipline, poor attitudes and a car crash every time it rains, declining public transport = more car drivers, it's just as stressful to drive at that speed, so now I do 70mph.
But you don't take into account the driver behind you wanting to overtake, not checking a blindspot and then clipping another car as they are overtaking you and collecting you in the process. I find it often pays to get well ahead of those who are not paying attention to the road and sitting in idle conversation. I saw one of these in the right lane of the M4 not long ago doing under 65mph with a looooong line of cars behind. They were being flashed and either completely ignored it or did not even notice. This led to numerous cars undertaking. They still did not give 2 hoots!
@@ianuk1975 You listened to the Today programme and still arrived relaxed?! You are truly a zen master!
@@jay26cee
There is a big difference between doing 65 in the fast lane and the inside lane!
Sitting behind a lane hogger, even at a safe distance ,and flashing your lights will likely antagonise the driver. If not- then the 2nd or ...3rd flash would certainly .
This would likely cause rage and possibly a brake check thingy. Resulting in a very UNSAFE/ dangerous situation !
I thought we were here talking about avoiding careless or dangerous actions.Not creating them.
Yes,Rogey,you're right. This scenario ALSO turns ONE wrong into two wrongs as spoken about in the video. Accept here they're both performed by the same numpty driver. (The road hogger) Much safer to turn ONE wrong in to TWO wrongs by SAFELY undertaking. Its NOT illegal. Far better than encouraging road rage ,which you'd expect from a driver with such little attention and understanding of the rules.
No mention of what happens when a vehicle on your right slows down.
This happens to me a lot.
Driving Instructor. What speed is "slow moving traffic" on a road with a 30mph limit? Or a 40 or a 50?
Driving Instructor - "I don't know"
Driving Instructor UK What is the difference between Must Not Overtake on the left and Do Not overtake on the left?
The UK must be the only country in the world where overtaking on the left (or right in LHD markets) is not allowed. To me, the rules make sense. Particularly when you consider cars only had a mirror on the driver's side, so to overtake on the left meant you were pulling through a blind spot or in some cases like vans they could not see you at all.
We drive on the LEFT. We overtake on the right. If you're not overtaking, you should be in the furthest left lane.
Ah the ubiquitous "should" rears its ugly head again, any rule that says "should" is open to interpretation and that will be after the fact. Make it "must" overtake on the right and "must not" overtake on the left, that solves that bit of discussion. Now make it "must" keep left at all times except when overtaking and make a 2000 pound fine and vehicle crushing the penalty and that will stop most of the lane hogging, problem solved, every body knows exactly where they stand!
Please reference the actual laws/acts rather than the Highway Code which is a mish mash of best practice and unreferenced law.
@@ferrumignis ua-cam.com/users/shortsRJO1kAY4a9c?si=kswQnbrtEdq73U4A
If the speed limit is 70 and there is more than 1 car in front of the other "a que" in the right lane and they are doing 65 "moving slowly". I am passing at 70 in the left lane. As I'm allowed to iaw the law as stated in this video at 10:25
If you had moved over to an empty looking inside lane that van driver would not have to go past you on the inside.
Can I turn on the indicator right to show that I want to overtake the car in the right lane instead of flashing headlights that might unnecessarily distract people in opposite lanes? Have you seen people doing that?
Rules vs reality... you can't expect motorway drivers to sit behind a hogger in lane 4 for the next 80 miles while lanes 1,2,3 are empty... it's just not going to happen.
People that hog the lane generally have poor awareness. I do wish we could have one of those matrix signs that the police have saying pull over. Mine would say if not overtaking pull in
Way I understand it
Do not undertake. An advisory.
Must not undertake an instruction
@@Christina-g4s exactly, it’s not illegal. But as I say in the video it’s classed as careless driving - so will still get you pulled. You don’t have to break a law to be charged with offence such as careless driving
So what your saying if someone is doing 50mph in the right lane in 70mph zone and I be in the left lane doing speed limit iv got to slow down too 50 just because it’s classed as undertaking
Lane hogging, fine £100 and 3 points. Vehicles on the outside are not overtaking any vehicles that we could see in this video, vehicles must stay in the left lane when not overtaking Rule 72. So in my opinion all of them should be fined.
So, I recently passed an emergency response driving course.
Which seems to contradict what you say in this video.
The first part is highway code compliant, driving like your normal driving test and
passing on the left is expected on a number of occasions.
If i had driven like you suggest i would have failed.
Common sense goes along way.
If you are in lane 2 of three and 3 suddenly slows down due to congestion and lane 2 infront of you is clear are you saying that you shouldn't pass??
You are over thinking this big time. No right minded traffic officer is going to give you a ticket in that sonario, but they might if you just hold the entire motorway up.
Driving with exemptions, so no speed limits but no emergency lights on when behind a car in lane 3 we are told to either use one long flash or put on the right indicator. The indicator worked alot better than the flash.
Totally agree. Not once going through the Highway Code book does he mention the only words used to say a rule is a legal requirement that must be obeyed are Must/Must Not.
@@EdwardOBrien-o6r Whilst the highway code is NOT law, it does contain many rules that ARE supported by law and "undertaking" is one such rule as it is supported by Careless driving law
This does does not apply to the standard driving test, the clue is your 1st sentence.
@bashy2.0 Correct the HC is not law. But if undertaking was supported by law it would use the words Must or Must Not Overtake on the left. It doesn't say that. Instead it says "Do Not" do it., which is not a legal requirement.
Yeah, problem is that all you need is that one Jobsworth to pull you over.
You said it's ok to flash your lights to get them to move, but earlier in the video you showed what the police consider to be careless driving and on that list was flashing your lights to get someone to move.
@@calibrax yes indeed , and I do understand that can look like I’m telling you to do something wrong. However, it would be the way in which it is done. Many people flash headlights incorrectly in an intimidating way and that is what the met police are talking about. A simple flash alerting someone of my presence is the intended meaning. I do go into more detail on this on my next video, scheduled over the next few days
You could end up with a long row of vehicles in lane 2 all flashing. If the hogger was in lane 4 or 5 you are saying all those who want to pass should only move to the hoggers lane.
I understand the rule I just dont understand why overtaking on the left is considered dagerous but its not dangerous to pass on the right I dont uderstand why the rule exists
Define ‘slow’ for me, specifically state a speed, in MPH that traffic in the right should be moving in a queue?? The highway is consistently not ‘clear’ it’s ambiguous tosh.
It doesn't really matter what the definition of slow is. Its only a recommendation or advise to go slow when overtaking on left. You can legally undertake at the maximum speed on any road when it's safe to do so.
How do you define a "queue" and "slowly"/"slow-moving"? There's no defined fixed values of speed, distance, or density of vehicles to define these, so are open to interpretation.
Also "congested". See @nigelduckworth4419's comment.
I think that's intentional. Unlike some countries on the continent where everything is illegal unless a law allows it, here everything is legal until a law disallows it, which is a double edged sword. On the one hand it allows you to defend yourself as to why your normal activities are in fact legal, but on the other hand it encourages lawmakers to write broad and vague laws so they can argue why you're actually a criminal. The highway code is pretty clear, imho, but there's still a reason why you are done for "careless driving" generally and not "undertaking" specifically.
@davem9204 My comment seems to have disappeared. I said that in the UK, laws are often not absolute, at least that's the way it used to be. It's up to the courts to decide.
If there is a motorway sign saying "congestion stay in lane" and traffic is moving at 40 - 50 mph then that would allow you to pass on the left regardless of whether cars are slow moving.
I had a situation where I joined a dual carriageway at a roundabout to find the right hand lane solid & practically stationary. This was because of a lane 1 closure ahead. The snag was it was still 700 yards ahead! So I cautiously moved up the empty left lane upto the taper. I could feel the rest looking daggers at me, as well as obstructing my merge into lane 2.
Good to know I was in the clear on the queuing traffic clause.
Very few drivers understand "zipper merges", where you merge at the merge point instead of merging early and leave an empty lane.
@davebrown9725 yes, seems a lot of drivers don't understand much. Not unusual see signs saying "queue both lanes" & "merge in turn" for those who's pair of brain cells are having communication issues.
Appricate the video. 🤙 Always good to refresh and re-learn.
The problem with the HC and guidance literature is that it doesn't DIRECTLY address this very common real-world scenario - it currently gives vehicles turning right or slow-moving queues as the only examples. In addition to these, if (in relation to multi-lane driving), it PLAINLY stated that "When a vehicle in ANY lane to your right is travelling at a slower speed than you, you MUST NOT pass it on the left - EVEN IF THE OTHER VEHICLE(S) ARE DRIVING AT LESS THAN THE PERMITTED SPEED LIMIT OR SLOWS DOWN" then we would all know where we stand. The wording, as is, allows for ambiguity and "folk law" - as described in this vid.
There is nothing ambiguous about the wording in the HC ... unless you want to imagine it's unclear to justify your bad driving habits.
@@stevegoodfellow3423 Yep, there's always someone who'll turn up with a personal insult or smart-a*sed comment trying to start an argument - and here you are bang on time!. If the HC is so perfectly unambiguous it should NOT be open to interpretation and misunderstandings (I used to write User Handbooks for a living and recognize when instructions have been poorly written).
Cannot believe this driving instructor thinks because a rule says Do Not, that means it's illegal. Has anybody ever heard of a bus driver being pulled over by a cop for undertaking? Just as well he's not the Minister for Transport.
@@billyporter1389 I can’t believe the amount of people that are saying I’m saying it’s illegal. When I don’t say that once. I even say ‘it’s not illegal’. However it is listed on not only police websites, but the crown prosecution service as an example of driving without due care and attention/careless driving. So the people that believe you can just overtake on the left, I’m trying to help them avoid the surprise of being pulled over when they decide they can just do it in any situation, other than the examples provided in the Highway Code
@JamesSimpkinsADI
Is careless driving a criminal offence? Yes
Is committing a criminal offence illegal? Yes.
So you don't have to say the exact word, as CD is illegal.
The CPS is giving an example of Careless Driving but it also says if you read it - "The following may depend on the facts and circumstances of each individual case, amount to careless driving". For the prosecution to seal a conviction it has to prove beyond doubt that the standard of driving fell well below the standard expected from a competent and careful driver.
You are trying to say, with only 2 cars on the motorway, a car in lane 1 overtaking another whose hogging lane 4 will be prosecuted, penalty points, and receive a fine.
You should tell this to your viewers and we'll see how many would agree with you.
@ I am trying to say it could. Which it could. And it could even go to court and be overturned, which does happen. Many people think overtaking on the left is just fine and they can carry on, which it isn’t. Even if you don’t get charged, or it’s overturned in court, doesn’t mean it’s ok. That’s the purpose.
@ no worries mate, I have just about had my fill of trying to explain overtaking on the left to people, just simply trying to help them avoid the possibility of being charged with careless driving thinking they can just crack on. Many do not understand overtaking on the left. Im at a point if people hear me reading from two official sources, written by the DVSA and dept of transport (who make the rules) and still think I’m chatting nonsense there’s nothing further I want to do to try and help. It’s advice and you can do what you wish with it
This is a common issue on my route home from work. A 2 mile stretch of dual carriageway, 40 mph speed limit. At the end of the road the right lane goes right, the left lane goes straight on and left. Going right goes into an Asda. Many people get into the right lane early and sit there, many times only doing 20-30mph (even if nothing infront of them). This leaves me in the awkward position in the left lane either undertaking them, or sitting behind outside their blindspot, but then holding everyone up behind.
Whenever i overtake on the left (not often) its because there is a slow moving vehicle in front that is indicating to turn right.
It is so simple, however many people have such poor standards. The rule is clear, for dual lanes or motorways: Use the left lane unless overtaking. They are overtaking lanes, not fast, or faster, or wherever-the-hell-I-want lanes. It is one of the most frustrating things on motorways, and dangerous. Cheers for vid.
And failure to comply with that single rule causes endless frustration all over UK ,and endless you tube videos about how everyone else suffers these idiots on middle and outside lanes....
Middle lane is NOT driving lane....
@@Hottiger1818 So true. Sadly so many idiots out there, and often within our own families! I could name the poor drivers within my family who drive just like that - middle lane hoggers - so annoying when the rules are really simple and for everyone's safety!
(At 15:30 approx) How many times would you flash your lights *and* if the other driver *still* doesn't move over, do you then move back to the left lane and keep pace with him/her but a short distance behind? If not and you stay in the lane behind the other vehicle, you risk being pulled up for lane hogging yourself (along with the other driver).
Thank you for this brilliant, factually correct approach to the topic.
I admit to spending around 50% of my time overtaking on the left... but that's because I have to as I live part of the year in Germany.. 😅
On the M5 Avonmouth bridge heading south towards jn 19 (Portishead), the left lane for the entire length of the bridge is separated and signed only for traffic coming off at the exit. Often, there aren't any actual queues, but there can be slow moving traffic in the adjacent lanes (not coming off the M5). Does this mean that traffic on the exit lane cannot overtake them? (You can see it on Street View at 51°29'20.6"N 2°41'33.7"W).
The left most line has different line markings, and is signposted for jn 19 (Portishead). But it was once the hard-shoulder that was later converted into dedicated lane, so physically (apart from the line markings) it's very similar to the left lane on any other motorway.
Can you tell me, please. If a car is lane hogging in lane 3 on a dual carriage way or motorway and there's little traffic around. There's nothing in lane two. Is it then not reasonable to pass in lane ONE while travelling faster than said vehicle hogging lane 3?
Road is clear, so I would continue on the left.
I agree with what you say about only undertaking in queueing traffic, but that isn't what Rule 268 says, it usses "congested" which is to my mind somewhat different. The M25 is frequently congested even if we are all moving at 50/60 miles an hour. It leaves some ambiguity which should be clarified.
If all lanes are doing same speed why do you need to over/undertake
@@neiltrevatt Because the lane ahead of you is empty
I thought and assumed the first 2 arguements. I'm prepared to change given the evidence. Well articulated and informed. Potentially saved me some points! Thanks
As annoying as it is, driving in a staggered formation is the way to go. Its been 6 months since I paased my driving test and I'm going back out in a week to do my pass plus. All your content is very useful 😊
@@panther9450 really glad to hear it, hope you’re getting on well. Definitely , I don’t sit to the side of another vehicle if I can avoid it
@JamesSimpkinsADI Ty!
@@JamesSimpkinsADI bubbles and escape routes. Person next to you no escape route
I was in a motorcycle club, and that was always the way to ride in a group. Never two abreast.
GOOOOOOOOOOD they key word "staggered formation" all the best.
As a former IAM level motorcyclist, I was trained to plan ahead more than you are in basic motorcycle training. The example I can use is when overtaking on a motorway and seeing in the inside lane ahead, a slow-moving HGV, I'd remain in the middle (or number 2 lane) until I'd gone past the HGV. The next one I'd quote is when approaching an on-ramp, I'd move over to lane 2 to avoid any need for last-minute manoeuvres should fast moving traffic joining the motorway not observe the Give Way lines. I rode for 23 years and covered many miles.
Mate, pick a camera...it's distracting.
Yep. I'm dizzy.
Absolutely 💯
It's done for effect.
It helps to hide cuts between takes, so either he keeps misspeaking or cars keep driving past really loudly.
It keeps the viewers attention
I disagree that drivers are mostly interpreting the rules as best suits them. Words explaining logic can be tricky for a lot of people, and throwing 'except' into a rule every time leaves a lasting impression even if it's the wrong impression. I'm admittedly naive and optimistic but can understand how 'drivers indicating' and 'slow moving' and 'queues' could easily be misinterpreted. Even 'congestion' isn't very easily defined though I think it's better. A defined speed (like under 15mph) for left lane overtaking might be simpler but I can see how that isn't perfect either.
What about the two drivers hogging the overtaking lane when left lane is empty
we are apparently supposed to just deal with it and sit behind them
You join motorway from acceleration lane...
Two lanes of traffic to your right are doing 60 mph....
So you should slow down to 55 as not to overtake even though your lane is empty as far as you can see....
Your causing a separate danger by slowing down..
I'd a case like this I won in court as I'd been stopped by police for under taking...
@@evelghostrider the filter lane on left is for accelerating and it is short, these were 2 actual lanes and the cars in middle lane could be done for obstruction as it is an overtaking lane. Used to pass slower traffic on your left then pull back into that lane. It is not, as some think, a fast lane
@ years ago on a 4 lane road I came behind a slower car hogging central lane. I flashed and beeped several times then pulled into left lane as the slower driver would not budge. The laugh is that behind me was a police traffic car 🤣 driver didn’t ignore his lights and siren as he was pulled over, ticket issued
I'm with you on this one, I'm glad someone has been brave enough to challenge this misconception.
Rule 268 doesn't say slow, it says Congested conditions and moving at similar speeds . . If traffic is heavy ie congestion and in lane 3 & 4 moving at 40mph and lane 1 or 2 moving at 45mph you will pass on the left. 40/45mph isn't slow.
It's slow for a motorway.
@@FFVoyager true but the rule doesn't mention anything about speed just "congested and moving at a similar speed" that might be 55 & 60mph. The only decision a driver needs to make is, is the road congested and moving at a similar, although slower, speed than me
Doesn't even have to be slow. Congestion means "a crowding of traffic", you can have all lanes both full to the brim be it a barrier dual carriageway all three on a motorway. All doing close to 70. If the right most lane slows down slightly the other lanes will be faster. There is no reasonable way around it. That's congestion. Typically the IMPACT of congestion means a decrease of speed (slow traffic) but it doesn't have to. Anyone who has been on a crowed fast-moving DC/MW knows this.
Doesn't have to be congested or slow. It's legal to drive on inside lane up to the speed limit of that road. The code says Do Not Overtake on the left except in congested traffic. That is advise. If it was law it would say Must Not, instead.
Very interesting video, thank you.
Please can you clarify what happens when on the motorway traffic slows quickly in the middle or outside lanes, do you also brake to match them not to overtake on the left, or do you maintain your speed and avoid backing the traffic up in the concertena effect? This happens a lot on the M6 through Cheshire and Staffordshire!! Cheers...
Absolute rubbish. A queue has got nothing to do with vehicles on left undertaking. Motorway speed limits of 70mph applies to all lanes. If lane 4 slows down to 55mph you are talking BS saying lane 1 MUST NOT go faster.