Victorians were ✨Obsessed✨ with Ugly Children...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 сер 2023
- Save 33% on your first Native Best Sellers Pack - normally $36, you’ll get it for $24! Click here bit.ly/nativeabbycox9 and use my code ABBYCOX9 #AD
Huge thanks and big hugs to @KazRowe @NicoleRudolph and @thatrobertshouse4350 for helping me with this video and in general being hilarious and supportive friends. ❤️
Victorian mothers and fathers obviously enjoyed talking about their children, but they really loved talking about ugly children. The more revolting, the better - especially when it wasn't about their children being the ugly ones. But you know what's even more shocking? That the 200 year old tradition of obsessing over your child's appearance has a direct link to today's "almond mom" and the toxic diet culture of the 1990s and early 2000s. While it feels like society is still missing steps in the name of progress, I guess, ironically, we can definitely see how we've made some improvements, at least when it comes to how media speaks to children.
Research for this video was conducted using the following archival databases:
Nineteenth Century Collections Online (Gale)
Eighteenth Century Collections Online (Gale)
Women's Magazine Archive (ProQuest)
🥳Socials
Website: www.abbycoxcreates.com
Instagram: / iamabbycox
Patreon: / abbycox
Tiktok: / iamabbycox
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @abbycox
📚My books:
The American Duchess Guide to 18th-Century Dressmaking: amzn.to/2GrkAIQ
The American Duchess Guide to 18th-Century Beauty: amzn.to/2TTwJtq
💌Business Inquiries ONLY abbycox@viralnationtalent.com
(This email goes directly to my management and not to me.)
📪 Abby Cox
642 N. Madison Street
Bloomington, IN 47404
🎶Music via Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com)
NATIVE DEODORANT REVIEW #NativePartner #Deodorant #AluminumFree
**I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for me to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. By purchasing items through the links listed above, I could earn a small commission for your purchase. Thank you.❤ - Навчання та стиль
Save 33% on your first Native Best Sellers Pack - normally $36, you’ll get it for $24! Click here bit.ly/nativeabbycox9 and use my code ABBYCOX9 #AD 🎉🎉
Me: time to re-up moi pit schtuff.
Abby n Nicole: *sneaks up* *bellows* Guess what time it is!
Abbyyyyyy...*sob* I require you to move to Europe because the body spray I had my eyes on, only qualifies for shipping within the US! You need to come over here and get deals with local companies! xD
... Ok seriously, thanks for this and I'll see if I can get a US friend to bring me something over on their next visit. You folks have the best products and deals ❤
I'm from 1965, and remember my "mother" wondering how she, being so pretty, could have such an ugly daughter! She was sure they had accidently given her the wrong baby in the hospital. Be it that she also told me I was the ugliest baby she had ever seen.. Somewhere she realized, I come after my father! They were real, those "mothers". Great video, Abby!
@@SibylleLeonmake friends with us and we will ship it on for you!
Native is the best! I can smell lovely and not break out in hives!!
I can't help but think of a biography of Eleanor Roosevelt I saw not too long ago. Her mother was constantly commenting to her and others on her ugliness, and blamed her for her father's alcoholism. Later in life her mother-in-law, who hated her for stealing Franklin from her, would do the same. Fortunately, her uncle Theodore loved her unreservedly, which helped her build the self-confidence that served her so well in her later years.
I thought of Eleanor so much throughout this video. She was my heroine as a[n ugly] child. ❤
I didn't know this so just fell down a rabbit hole about it. I don't see her being plain or ugly in any of her pictures????
There were jokes in the 40s that boiled down to "war might be ugly, but Eleanor Roosevelt is uglier."
And she became one of the most influential and admired women in history.
My dad knew her. He never said she was ugly, just that she spent time with her girlfriend at the lake and carried a lot of books. He was the boat boy, so I think the books were the main concern. This was after they were out of the WH.
This gives the ‘Ugly Duckling’ story a whole new meaning. No doubt there were Victorian parents that hoped their children’s “ugliness” was “just a phase.”
I have friends whos children were awkward looking when little, but who grew into attractive adults. I can see where that kind of mythology would come about, as it does happen.
Perhaps stark white feathers, long necks, and black eye markings aren’t exactly mallard beauty standards, but that doesn’t make them worthless.
The thing with the ugly duckling is that the swan was never ugly. It was being judged by standards completely unrelated to it, so of course it couldn't stand up to them. It never changed from ugly to beautiful, it was just judged by another rubric and came out better.
That was actually written by Hans Christian Andersen who felt like an ugly duckling himself. Growing up bullied and singled out (he was also probably queer), the publishing of that story is a comfort that everyone is lovely in their own way. They just need to find people who accept them and treat them like normal.
I also think about how this is one of his few stories that ends happy.
@@wherefancytakesme it's definitely his best work. So many of his stories end with the protagonist dying and going to heaven. He definitely had issues he never worked out.
I kept thinking of the countless times when people have found out that my health is shit, with 9+ medical conditions that are chronic, and people respond with "but you're so pretty!" as if physical appearance has anything to do with health.
Here I have the opposite scenario. I've always been remarkably healthy and fit, yet because I am naturally large and heavy people constantly assume I'm unhealthy and infirm because I'm fat.
Your health can affect your appearance tbf, but not usually in a way that makes people ugly/beautiful. It's whack that people assume that about you- sorry to hear it :(
Same here! It's maddening. Doctors don't take me seriousoektyef because of my youth and "beauty".
uh! tell me about it, my mom is going through breast cancer right now and because of it she lost a ton of weight, and my grandma keeps complimenting her for it, except, she only lost weight because she is dealing with a life treating disease, my mom is so pissed at that
also, when i had depression and got even more skinny than i normally am (which is to say, to a very unhealthy degree), i got complimented constantly, and that just made me so mad, I was SICK i wanted to KILL MYSELF, and people were only worried about how fucking stupid skinny i was... CUS I SIMPLY COULDN'T EAT
I’ve had two life-threatening illnesses since 2018, and the combination of the last one and side effects left me bedridden for almost two years. So naturally, I’ve gained weight. Even though my doctors have all been my doctors since well before this, I’ve had to remind them - repeatedly - that you don’t get a PICC line for funsies. And trying to get NEW specialists to take me seriously? 🙄 They can all SEE the medical records, but nope, have I considered exercising more? (Please see the PEMS note in date x in the chart…,) It’s incredibly frustrating - and it’s hard, because it doesn’t matter what is wrong with you as a patient, it always comes back to whether you “look” sick.
I just finished reading Jane Eyre. Young Jane repeatedly being labeled an "ugly child" makes more sense now.
I was thinking of both Jane Eyre and of Olive (another Victorian novel) when I saw this.
Also Jane, by modern beauty standards, may not have been ugly. Note there are few characters in the novel who don't see Jane as being ugly -- Diana Rivers and Mrs. Fairfax come to mind. Jane is described as being small, pale, and slim. Her hair is brown, her eyes are green, her mouth is wide, and her nose is not straight. That doesn't mean her nose was crooked -- more likely it was upturned. Interestingly Charlotte Bronte described herself as being plain, but if you've seen the portraits of Charlotte painted in her lifetime, she was pleasant looking -- by no means ugly or plain.
@@barbarabrown7974 Jane by contemporary standards wouldn't have been considered ugly either. Plain doesn't mean ugly. It means normal, basic, nothing special. Her looks would be unremarkable, not actively bad. Not turning heads or sticking out for either good or bad qualities. Just, well, plain.
It's simply "ugly" but honestly I think it many many ways it was more than her inherent looks. She was abused her entire childhood and I cannot imagine her being fed well to have a healthy complexion; and despite all the downtrodding, jane was a fiesty spirit and fought back when she could which was considered unladylike and improper. And when she leaves Mrs Reed, most people comment on her hot headed personality rather than her look, so i think jane as perfectly fine in looks, maybe not noticeably beautiful but certainly not bad in anyways.
@@msk-qp6fn "Not noticeably beautiful but certainly not bad in anyways." Precisely! That's a great working definition of the word "plain" in this context.
Victorian mother: Yo, my child so ugly
Other Victorian mother: Pfftt! My child's ten times uglier than yours
Their children: 👁👄👁
💀💀💀
I think you mean their children: 🐸🐗
@@kristyw89have you even seen the video??? This isn't funny at all
@@alisav8394awe come on. It's a big difference making fun of theoretical not real children than literally calling your own human child ugly.
@@alisav8394 I mean I'll explain the joke to you but I was trying to imply that's what their mothers saw them as looking like, since the original joke that's what they were talking about. I was also making a joke that the frog is making a face similar to this 👁️👄👁️ face and there isn't really another one that is ACTUALLY 10x uglier so I just used the hairy little boar, even though he's kinda cute.
Nicole just trying to get some work done while Abby yells about being stinky. Glorious, 10/10 advert
that basically summarizes the past 2 weeks she spent with me lol
The laugh that barked out of me watching Nicole's facial expressions during the ad was aggressive 😂
_cackles_
Not going to lie, this kept me watching the ad, just to see Nicoles reactions.
I was also laughing, wondering what Abby's neighbors think when people come out of her house in costume and then go lay in the gutter. 😂
My grandmother (born 1905) could not "hear" you if your hair wasn't combed. She also was terribly vain and sought compliments of her style, clothing, and home. This video explains sooooo much about her upbringing.
Ah, grammas
Yeah *her* upbringing XD
Makes me wonder what would happen if someone messed with her hair and then refused to listen to her.
Now I understand what Louisa May Alcott was the counterprogramming for! All her stories have characters overcoming superficial looks-based expectations in society and learning to recognize that it's "what's inside that counts."
Thats why I liked her stories in 4th and 5th grade! I also wrote a report about her but its been decades so I don't remember any of it.
I immediately thought of how Amy always wore a clothes pin on her nose to try to make it more narrow! Another iconic one was when Meg cut all her hair off and Amy said, “Not your one beauty!”
I mean, keep in mind that LMA also called her children's books "moral [baby food] for the young" derisively, and only wrote them for the money. The Gothic novels and satirical stories she actually WANTED to write had no such lessons. So, while I'm not saying she didn't actually feel that way, she didn't write those things out of a Higher Calling To Help Young Girls.
Another example of this is Jane Eyre, by Charlotte Bronte. The narrator/protagonist is forever commenting on how "plain" and "unattractive" she is, but it's obvious to the reader that her character and personality are what make her a beautiful person.
Yup! I can’t comprehend whenever people say “she was so anti-feminist” when all her characters are struggling with and throwing off conforming to societal expectations!
I want to use “She was really very ugly. Nay, almost revolting.” casually in daily conversation.
I laughed out loud at this comment, and it momentarily took my mind off the extreme physical pain I'm experiencing now. Thank you for the brief surcease, however brief it was.
@@keithjones9546 Omg that is so sweet. I’m just being silly but nice to know it have you a chuckle.
I have found that simply inserting the word "nay" or "nary" into modern conversation increases the level of absurdity. It's fun.
Really great for fashions of the day as well
@@samanthab3292 Yes. Like those polyester leisure suites in pastel colors, and the avocado green color on everything in the 70's that had a sort of off, rotten look and not the fresh green of unoxidized 🥑.
"If you're fat, boys won't like you." My mom, to me at 12 years old in the early 1990s, during the era of "heroin chic". She denies ever saying that to me, of course. Needless to say, my self esteem is still not great even though I'm in my 40s. I understand the social dynamics, etc. intellectually, but it still wears on me. What horrifies me now is that she still makes comments about my niece. She has a tiny pooch, which my mom insists is more than a tiny pooch -- she's getting "chunky". My niece is 8. I've told my mom to NEVER say that in front of my niece. EVER. I **WILL** lose my sh!t on her if she does.
Thank you for standing up for your niece !
My great aunt is a sweet woman, but my god, all she talks about is food - how much she eats, what she cooks for herself and my great uncle, how that's changed over time, why some food is healthier than other food... She used to make similar comments about my second cousin when she was a teen, comparing the poor girl to her older sister all. The. Time. It drives me insane
Bravo for standing up for your niece! The indoctrination of beauty "standards" is all too real in women from a young age, though I hope it's changing with the younger generations (I'm 56). I kinda hate that I understood immediately that the phrase "she has a small pooch" in the context of your niece, doesn't refer to her pet Pomeranian dog. I'm glad you're that young girl's ally for a healthy body image. 👏🏻 🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’ve always had a pooch, even when I was underweight. Turns out I have a tilted uterus and had a lot of food sensitivities so I was bloated more often than not. I can hear my mom in my head saying “pookie belly!” Then poking me if my stomach was ever exposed. We have no relationship now, for a long list of reasons lol
Have you told your sibling (your niece’s parents) about what your mom said in front of her? If I were you, I would pronto. Their parent can completely override your mom’s opinion if they share their views on food and weight with their child. My grandma always made horrible comments about food and weight. My mom was honest with me and said, my grandma encourages EDs. My mom was on track to be a professional ballerina. She was dancing for the Philadelphia Ballet as a teenager. But her coach restricted her to eating one apple a day. My grandma agreed with it. 😡 A year later, my mom had an ED so bad and was so malnourished, she kept collapsing on stage. They effed up her whole life, because she devoted everything to ballet, and didn’t do much school work. (That was encouraged by her studio and family since pro ballerinas didn’t need a good education.) spoiler alert - my mom couldn’t recover enough mentally to become a pro ballerina. Anyway, my mom telling me how gross and toxic my grandma’s views were helped me a lot. My mom and I would just mock my grandma and say replies like, “Oh no! How shall I ever find a husband” while pretend fainting when she made her gross weight comments. 😂
I am 70. Mine is the first generation not to need to teach our daughters how to catch a man for the sake of sheer survival. Our mothers were terrified for us. It didn't always play out as loving care.
Learning to be pretty so that someone worthwhile would choose you - that was simply common sense during my adolescence.
My favorite quote from Eleanor Roosevelt - No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
This was a lot of insight that I really appreciated
My mom is currently 65, and she definitely raised me with a whole different set of values regarding men and marriage. My dad taught the same values.
She's been happily married to my dad for 38 years. But it's definitely a different type of marriage compared to prior generations.
My dad has pretty significant body image issues, which makes sense considering how much my paternal grandmother channeled Lucille Blueth vibes. When I was 14, I rapidly lost a lot of weight following a traumatic experience. My dad complimented me on said weight loss (which was obviously a perfectly acceptable thing to do in 2003). I will never forget my mom's sternly saying "DO NOT tell her that, Doug!".
My dad didn't understand that the weight loss was entirely unintentional. My mom may have, but I know she was also thinking that complimenting me on my appearance like that could send the wrong message and, as a teen girl, it could also be really dangerous.
that must have been so heavy to deal with, both for you and for your mother :(
I love this!
It's always so sad to me that that particular Eleanor Roosevelt quote is so often misunderstood and misquoted.
This was...oddly informative. My 97-year-old grandma spent my sister's most recent pregnancy talking almost exclusively about how she hoped the baby would be pretty. That's her main compliment she still gives her granddaughters and great-granddaughters. "You're so cute" or "You're so pretty." I don't think I realized this was a dominant cultural practice and not just a weird personality quirk...
Definitely a cultural and generational thing… all my kids are conventionally attractive and they rarely get (unprompted) appearance compliments from me. It’s generally character traits that get complimented.
“Sweet”, “Gentle”, “Kind”, “Helpful”, “Amazing”, etc.
they hear how pretty they are from everyone at the store and, if they ask, I do say that they’re very cute/pretty/adorable, but i let them know that it’s far more important to be kind than pretty.
It stems directly from me being a very conventionally attractive child who gained weight and became “ugly” when my parents were going through their divorce and my dad basically showed the world how abusive he was to the family.
I went from being fawned over by everyone everywhere to being told hurtful shit like “you’d look better if you were skinny” or “do you really need another serving?” or even directly “you’re fat, so you shouldn’t eat that”
Which really fucked me up…
My husbands aunt went as far as telling me the name I chose was ugly. Lol I still chose it “Lucille”
@@TheKnallkorper bonus points for being able to sing “Lucy in the sky with diamonds” and it can be for you (instead of about LSD :3)
And also, Lucille Ball is an icon and a half. And also beautiful
My mom, who was born in the 1940s and raised predominantly by her grandparents, who was overweight and a heavy smoker, grabbing my rolls when I was a child and saying, "If you can pinch an inch! And that's more than an inch!" or when I was trying on clothes, "Sigh, you look like a sack of old potatoes". Followed up by my being "too smart" and "too sarcastic" I was "scaring the boys off". She wasn't really happy with me when I responded, "Good, if they're that easily scared off I don't want him." Still, that stuff absolutely sticks with you.
Oh, that "pinch an inch" I wish that I was as "fat" now as I thought I was as a teen and young woman.
I’m sorry that happened, I witnessed something similar with my dad. He was a big dude (6’ 1”, 300 lbs) but would make comments on my younger sister’s weight, especially at family functions. We loved him deeply but he could be a real ass sometimes
@@jessicaclakley3691 "[If you eat that] You're gong to get fat!" It took years and 12-step work to be able to calmly tell my dad the effect those words had on me. He did stop.
I’m so sorry, that would take me many years of therapy to undo. ❤
@@MyMerryMessyGermanLife I've been in (& out of) a 12-step group for compulsive overeating for a number of years, so I've found a lot of understand & support there.
My grandaunt was denied marriage due to her looks, so she never married . Oh and the guy she wanted to marry was blind, but his parents said no,
Omg
😢
Too ugly for a blind man 😭 what a world. Terrible.
Jee freaking sus
Wow
The almond mom is also something that happens here in Europe. Its actually really worrying and bad. I know people who have put their 10 year olds (and younger) on a diet because they were worried they'd be fat. I've had a 5 year old ask me if she was fat, because both her parents were dieting. Madness, absolute madness.
TW: eating disorder
I'm French and can confirm, I was put on diets/got passive agressive comments made about my body as soon as I started developping and some of my friends also went through the same thing with our mothers putting us on diets at around 11 years old and encouraging us to lose weight all through highschool. At 14-15 my typical day of eating was one apple, one slice of ham, one tomato and a few handfuls of plain lettuce and my mother actively encouraged it. Now when I look at the few pictures I have of that time I see that I was nowhere near fat, I was just a tween with a growing body...
I had a similar progression. I am now 72 ; my pressure to be smaller began as best I can remember when I was 5. My older sister used "fat" as my name. My mother began discouraging me from eating 'too much' and certain types of foods. I was in the upper ranges of weight charts throughout my childhood and in my tweens was placed on diet pills and a severely calorie restricted diet. I lost weight and was ecstatic. Struggles with my weight continued throughout my life with multiple diets, obsessive exercising, and repeated medical intervention . I ate an anorexic diet interspersed with binging throughout my early adulthood and continued to gain weight until I reached my highest weight of 330 lbs in my late 30s. At that point I realized that my efforts to attain a socially acceptable size would never be successful and I vowed to myself to completely change my attitude and behavior towards food and the concept of the perfect size. I ate whatever I wanted, whenever I liked as much as I wanted. I continued to exercise regularly doing movement that made me feel good, usually walking and swimming. When I stopped punishing myself with painful ineffective and pleasureless efforts to control my weight, over about the next 10 years I lost 150 lbs. I have never looked back and continue to maintain that relatively 'normal ' size.
What's even worse is that it's not about an ugly child, it's about an ugly daughter...
Per the Stephen Fry-narrated Victorian Secrets, Victorians believed that ugly babies resulted from poor lovemaking. Let's bring back THAT myth.
Lol, husband says we’ve got ugly kids? Well, we know whose fault THAT is! Should have brushed up on the bedroom skills there, Sparky.
Fabulous... Im in.... Challenge accepted ....
@@js8971 😂😂😂
"Listen, Bucko, we decided to try for a baby, and I don't think either of us want to risk having an ugly child, and that comes from poor love-making. So DOWN YOU GO, AND DON'T RUSH!" ~
The statement every woman in a hetero relationship has the right to make if the man in that relationship is resistant to certain acts of love-making.
@@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991🤣🤣🤣
As someone with invisible disabilities I've always been very aware of pretty privilege, to be honest aquiring as much of it as i can has had a huge impact on my life.
Being put together, doing my hair, taking care of my skin and watching my weight has been maybe the most effective way to get the people who should help me to actually help me.
A social worker that listens a tiny bit more closely and makes looks something up for me, a doctor that listens to me more attentively... People are much, much nicer to me when I'm more attractive.
And I know it for sure, because my disabilities don't allow me to always put that extra effort into my appearance.
When you don't have much social capital... Pretty privilege is unfortunately still one of the best ways to get by.
By no means will being pretty solve all your problems, but when you're pretty the people around you will be kinder, more patient and understanding.
It's surprising how one's appearance influences the judgement of others on one's health! For better and for worse.
While I should say that I'm not that particularly good looking, and I do have a debilitating chronic illness, I wish I had a penny for every time someone told me "you look good, you don't look sick".
Once even my rheumatologist in a fit of exasperation because I was not getting better told me "But you're so cute!" Erhm... Like the two things are connected. 😩
That's exactly how I feel.
Oh my god, I have the same experience. The biggest thing I notice is when I have the motivation/energy to stick on eyelashes for example. People have so much more tolerance and patience for invisible disabilities when youre "attractive". Like people will actually wait for me to finish my sentences, or if I stutter and mess up the words, I get another opportunity to say it without people getting short with me. It's also more acceptable for me to be slow (as a result of my disability) and its just "cute". When im not done up I get treated like a stupid animal or an obstacle.
I once had a (male) doctor challenge me on “what would happen if [I] didn’t” straighten my hair, put on mascara, wear nice clothing, as it often made me late for things-I chose grooming over being on time. “You wouldn’t have kept me as a patient for a decade, probably” was my response.
I had the opportunity to read all of my doctor’s files as part of a lawsuit. Did you know that most of their written reports start with a description of you?
“Well-groomed and fashionably dressed”, “well-spoken and educated”, “neatly and appropriately dressed”, “wearing yellow tights” (!!??)
What you have detailed is definitely not in your head!
@@moethe7746 holy sh!t … disappointed but not surprised by that doctor. Ugh. I hope that the result of the lawsuit was the thing you hoped for. That’s NOT a fun process even and especially if it’s the right thing to do.
In Anne of Green Gables, Anne goes on and on about how plain and ugly she is and how no one could love such an plain girl with red hair, freckles, and so skinny. These books were in the approximate time frame and it had been drilled in her she was ugly. She was berated for being vain when she started believing she was pretty. This book shows such societal issues from that time.
Being overweight, disabled, and of ancestry that was actively called "ugly" from mid 1800s through today, this turned out to be an incredibly therapeutic watch. I've been going through family photos and knowing the BS these ladies went through to look less Slavic/Jewish makes me 10x more proud of them than before. Whenever I have daughters (if I'm lucky) I'm going to get a quack sound on my phone to play on loop whenever someone goes off on the "oh they're fat/ugly" rants.
If that is your picture, I think you’re really cute
Talking about vicorians and how important was a woman's appearance I am reading " The Five", a book about the five canonical victims of Jack The Ripper. Other than the horrible circumstances for women from poor families there was also a little detail also made me really want to scream: on the autopsy report of the third victim, Elizabeth Stride, the coroner felt important to mention that "she had maintained a kind of beauty" or something by these lines. Like...seriously???Apparently the victorians were even more messed up than we are.
Great book! I cried so much! Jack stole the lives of these women, and society took away their dignity and respect. The writer returned their names, this is so important!
"She was brutally mutilated and murdered, likely died in pain and great fear, but hey at least she's still pretty." :(
@@SeaSelka- The press took away their dignity. They were the ones who made Jack.
“She got disemboweled but THANK GOD she’s still hot”
@@hannahb2306I feel like that’s what a frat boy would say…
The repeated flashes of the Renesmee animatronic are KILLING me 😂 and Nicole's cameo 😂. Fantastic tone for such a ridiculous but potentially triggering topic.
Also, Kaz’s cameo 😂💜😂
Coupled with the goose squawk! Startling, then hilarious! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Like, are the "ugly children" flying south for the winter?
that made me laugh so much 😂😂😂
Oh Abby, great timing. My mum is an almond mum. For reasons outside our control, my husband, 3 year old and I live with my parents and we'll be moving out next month. We've just come back from a 3 week trip and I noticed that the fatphobia and trauma hit me in the face as soon as we got back. This morning I asked my mum to stop discussing weight with me at all (after she told me she's lost 4.5lbs this week) until I've moved away, because I'm noticing it's causing me mental health decline. Her response was "okay but it goes both ways. That pizza you ate last night triggered me and made me feel physically sick." Great. That's what I was talking about. She apologised later because she is working on herself, but wow. That just proved the point.
I cannot believe how harsh we were to Britney, she looked great, especially after that very public breakdown.
also she'd literally just had 2 kids in 2005 and 06 , and she still had abs in that video
I just read her autobiography and holy shit. Her family are a bunch of evil, lazy gold diggers. That girl was really put through hell.
My personal battle with my mother was on body hair, who told me on numerous accounts that I would never get a boyfriend if I had hair on my legs. Thank god I had the conviction to fight and make her see sense, but boy, was puberty rough. At this point, my hairy legs are a point of spite and also to show other little girls that it's OKAY.
Yay for hairy legs! I shave only the part below my knee bc that's how I like it, but I've never in my life put a razor to my thighs and I never will. And yes, it's a point of pride now. My arms as well, as I had been told as a teen numerous times that my arms were too hairy, but I absolutely refused to ever do anything about it. I like my hairy arms! They keep me warm in the winter months.
Special point of contention for my mother, tho? My tummy hair. I have a lot of hair going from my belly button downwards and I. Do. Not. Care. Drives the silly woman bonkers.
it truly sickens me how something as Natural and Benign as body hair is seen as "ugly" and/or "unsanitary" by so many, and how it is used as a weapon to degrade people for daring to just..not care. the fact that having any form of hair on a woman's body except for the eyelashes, eyebrows and headhair is for some reason an unlovable trait is just. mind bogglingly upsetting.
i'm glad you pushed back on your mother's nonsense, some mothers see us as an extension of themselves and feel as though thrusting their emotional baggage and insecurities onto us is justifiable 🙄
My mother (I am 60) absolutely could not stand if I wore my long hair loose ! Definitely had to be braided, ponytail, or in a bun at ALL TIMES ! She said having it loose made me look like "a wild woman," lol.
I was born in 1962, so grew up in the "hippy era", so felt perfectly FINE having it loose ! Long hair takes work, and if I want to wear it loose, I will.
And of course, now that I am older, the even older women tell me I am "too old" to be wearing long hair & should be dying the gray !
I DID do a semi-permanent dye in my hair when the gray first cropped up (late 20's) since the gray hair was course and was standing up like antenna! Lol ! Did it for a few months, then stopped. Didn't like dousing myself in chemicals !
I've never stopped getting positive comments on my hair from everyone else ! Lol.
P.s. also stopped tweezing my eyebrows back when Brooke Shields popularized thicker brows !
It is pretty much about infa ntilizing women (only very young pre puberty girls have little to no hair in pubic area and legs) and greed by beauty industry that wants to push their waxes, overpriced razors, hair melting creams and now also laser (which by the way feels like torture!)! They created the problem (female body hair) and they sell the solution!
My father tells me I'm far too old for long hair. I'm your age. My aunt's and grandmother started trying to get me to dye my hair in the 70's. My grandmother went to residential school and wanted everyone to dye their black hair!
I'm sure that no matter what someone will find something to kick down at people no matter how enlightened we become. Yeah that's negative but I've watched it happen so often over the years it's hard not to expect it
The 90's were cruel with beauty standards. My mom fell pretty deep into diet shame, trying to lose weight in her early 40's with weight watchers and slim fast. She didn't intentionally teach us to hate ourselves, but we learned it by little side comments, magazines, daytime tv, and the way she constantly modeled self loathing and depreciation. It's a horrible way to go through life.
I had the same experience. To this day, I have cognitive dissonance knowing it isn’t healthy or morally right/wrong to pursue weight loss, but, I went for a jog today while lamenting my recent 20lb weight gain. Like… I just wanna live.
I was born in 1984 and had exactly the same experience. I have never been skinny (epigenetics and born with insulin resistant)
My mother, a 59-year-old Filipino immigrant, literally did the eyelash cutting and nose-pinching to me growing up. I was so shocked to hear that as advice from a Victorian book. This shit is not dead and has been used alongside scientific racism in spades 😭
I went on a tour through an old plantation in Louisiana years ago. And I remember one of the stories of a daughter who died because her mother was obsessed with clearing up her acne. The mother kept sending her daughter off to different institutions and spa places to get her skin cleared up and ultimately she died from some horrendous infection because of it. After her daughter died, the mother locked herself in the bedroom and rarely came out of it for decades because she felt so guilty.
😮😢
Laura Plantation? Yea that story messed me up
The Victorians were out there WILDING from dinosaur exhibits to doctors prescribing smoking.
Don't forget eating Egyptian mummies at parties!
@@amandadeloff4278and also using them for pigment, because obviously the most sensible thing to do with a preserved human body is to grind it up and make paint!
@@myladycasagrande863Literally! An artist gave his paint a funeral after he found out it contained mummy.
@@twinnishholy heck fire
@@myladycasagrande863mummy brown!
There were literally laws called 'The ugly laws" put in place to prohibit people seen as ugly, disfigured, disabled, etc., from being seen in public.
GRRRRRRR !
Who remembers that old Twilight Zone episode: Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder? Donna Douglas (Elly Mae Clampett) was deemed to be so ugly that she was banished to an isolated place so her ugliness couldn’t be. seen by “normal” people.
Which were in place until the late 1970s, in case anyone thinks these are ancient and irrelevant. Fatphobia and ableism are irrevocably entwined.
My husband refuses to understand why I am sensitive to certain language in books and movies, but as a person who grew up with a physical deformity it is pretty clear that the attitudes still exist. Start working through Disney's back catalogue and you wont have to go too far to find some pretty horrific depictions of the disabled.
Yep and people have pointed out that they're trying to do something similar to trans folks by basically making it illegal to appear trans in public
My brother when I was a teenager was telling me I was ugly, my dad turned around a said “she’s not ugly, she’s pretty-ish” this was maybe twenty years ago. So yeah I grew up being told by society i was ugly and at work was then compared with my prettier coworkers. It’s so messed up how we still view an attractive woman as being more capable and talented. Then I made the mistake of gaining weight because I’m chronically sick and can’t exercise on a regular basis so now I’m fat and ugly and kind of feel like I should just hide in a cottage in the woods scaring children.
Loved the video and the dance scene had me cackling.
You're beautiful
Hey me and my bestie need another person to come live in the woods with us. You should join lol
I support you hiding in the woods scaring children because obviously “I be the witch of the wood” is goals, but I’m sad you talk about yourself this way. You’re for SURE not ugly based on your pic. Genuinely. It’s a giant bummer your dad said what he said.
I can tell from your profile picture that you are beautiful. Please don't call yourself those horrible words. I can relate to your situation because I became chronically ill 4 years ago, and I also cannot do much exercise, leading to significant weight gain. But I feel that it is so important to talk and think about ourselves with the same compassion and respect that we would show when talking about others. Wishing you all the best! 🥰
I was one of those girls that got the "You have such a pretty face! If you just lost some weight!" from my mother starting around age 8 or so. I was forced onto countless diets starting in elementary school -- because I was my mother's 'diet buddy'. As a pre-teen I was enrolled in Weight Watchers. I detested the weigh-ins. She would be so mad at me when I didn't lose enough weight for her liking. If I lost weight, she heaped praise and love on me. When I didn't lose, or (GASP!) gained weight, she withheld love and approval -- and restricted my food even further. My relationship with food (and my mother) was irreparably fncked-up as a consequence. I married a fantastic man -- even though I was told by my mother that "boys don't date fat girls". And even managed to work at several different arts-related jobs, despite being told me that "businesses don't like hiring fat people".
My mom did similar things to me. When I started dating my now husband, she told me he must be a chubby chaser and implied that he was mentally sick or some sort of predator. He's not. He is the absolute best, most loving man I have ever known.
@@jessicaarntzen582 My mother did something similar when I married my husband. She was convinced that he was abusing me. Once she even asked me to my face about physical abuse he MUST be subjecting me to. He's a big guy. And he and I joke that he has "resting Russian mobster face". But he is the sweetest man on the planet! He's a big, squishy, teddy bear who cries at movies and loved animals!
My mom is skinny for her whole life and she worried me to be fat since I was 4 years old. She dragged me out of bed 6 in the every morning to the school playground and made me run while a bunch of middle age man plays soccer. The rest is too long to say here. I still hate jogging so much because I feel some unknown rage comes out of my chest whenever I am on the treadmill.
Im 47. I grew up in The Deep South and my dad's side of the family was always overweight, always dieting. But... I was a really small underweight kid and they were constantly trying to force me to eat. So, the mixed messages there was bonkers. It didn't really make the mark that you would expect - I never really held to any eating restrictions other than food sensitivites, i didn't buy a scale until recently and its collecting dust in the closet. My daughter has always eaten how she wants, when she wants, and never heard the words diet, fat or thin as she grew up. America is really obsessed with women only being worth what their bodies or labor brings to the table and THAT ( as a child of fundamentalist christians ) was what messed me up.
You have to wonder, as well, what they thought constituted “ugly”. I have seen paintings, images, of women, and men, thought to be supremely attractive, that by our standards, were NOT.
A big problem is how often society changes the concept of what’s beautiful.
In the 1800's an ideal woman would have pale, nearly translucent skin although she should be able to look healthy and have a healthy blush.
She should have straight, white teeth and "sparkling eyes" aka big pupils.
A pronounced collar bone and thick curly hair were also preferred.
A small waste in proportion to her bust and lower half were also preferred.
the way the victorians described ugly children hit home for me, ngl.
growing up i was always getting the concerned conversations about my weight, to the point where people told me i would be dead before i was 25 (jokes on them, i'm turning 25 in a week.)
i got used to being told i was fat. i really thought they were worried about my health.
when i was 14, i overheard my dad having a conversation with my mom, where he literally said i could be really pretty, but i chose to be ugly because i was lazy.
my mental health was already tanking, and hearing that my own father thought i was ugly was devastating.
the night i overheard that conversation was the night i started self harming, and i was in a bad place mentally until i was almost 20.
it's like some adults forget children have feelings.
Happy belated 25th birthday!
This reminds me a lot of Jane Eyre. Especially in the first few chapters, where jane is a little girl. She is seen as being, small, unattractive little thing. To where the adults label her for her so called " wild behavior". Because of her look's, and her background. Even when Charlotte Breonte was finishing,' Jane Eyre', her sisters, (Emily and Anne Bronte) basically told her "That nobody will want to read a novel about an ugly heroine.' Charlotte didn't listen, thankfully, she wanted to prove that every other " common looking women can just be as adventurous too, then a drop dead gothic gorgeous Victorian beauty.
As a plus sized woman this struck hard. I feel we are the 'ugly girls' of today. And it's not just the question of being seen as less attractive but the moral superiority of being thin and thus seen as healthy - I used to be really skinny BECAUSE I used to have an illness that made me feel sick all the time and only put weight on when i got better!
And the sad thing is - whether it's the mother pinching her little girls nose, the almond mum, or the grandmother that holds her granddaughter down when she is having FGM - it is mostly women who enforce this control of female bodies. Lets hope the next generation of mother's break this cycle!
I agree.
I have been thin and fat. He seemed to be ignored when you're fat, but it works the same way regarding aging.
You become invisible.
Appearance, weight and health has a complex relationship. Many women are wasting time obsessing over appearance and weight when they don’t need to (not talking about for health reasons). I guess the reality is that slim women are viewed more favorably but it’s so tiring to try and fit into oppressive beauty standards. Equating slim to healthy is BS, especially when people develop eating disorders over it.
I was born in 1971, my mother was born in 1942, her mother was born in 1908, great grandma was born in 1882 (and passed away when I was 6) so I was raised by REALLY old fashioned values... OMG I WAS THE UGLY CHILD (according to my mother.) She didn't want me in the Gifted school program because she didn't want to risk me being ostracized for being smart, she was constantly trying to get me to wear makeup... She LOVED calling me a street urchin.
I cut her out of my life 20 years ago, but she tried weaseling back in a few years ago by showing up at my job (she lives 1500 miles away). She commented on my looks of course...
Are you familiar with Dr.Ramani & Patrick Teahan Licsw both here on UA-cam?! Patrick talks a fair bit of childhood trauma, & Dr. R a lot about Narcissistic behavior. Both are AMAZING !
I went no contact with my mother last fall when she blithely told me to "Kill it" when I mentioned my beloved dog had a back injury. That dog gave me more love & affection in 6 years than my mother did in 60 years. I nursed the dog back to health & do NOT miss my toxic mother. She will not change. She got worse as she got older.
Society is absolutely INSANE that it ACCEPTS toxic mothers ! You are supposed to accept the toxic because she's your mother. NOPE !
Can confirm: cutting out the toxic, abusive mother (and the family who enables her and does her bidding) is an incredibly liberating experience. Also recommend the necessary therapy to help heal and grow beyond our mothers' shadows.
Hugs in solidarity ❤
I was born in 1980 but I swear my mom thought she was a proper Victorian lady rather than a middle class housewife. This woman force fed me then called me fat. Used to constantly pick on my features and tell me I'm ugly. It's only in the last 5-10 years I'm able to see myself as beautiful
Having severe chronic acne, i feel the horrors of all this in my soul. People constantly tell me that if i was disciplined with diet, or went vegan, or keto, or whatever i could be pretty. That my skin is a result of my own moral faults, and not hereditary polycystic ovarian syndrome.
“I was researching something else and I found this story...” - Me on the Internet since 2004.
As a child at the dinner table, if I asked for another ear of corn, my mother would immediately lash out at me, and say, "That is what they fatten hogs on!! I'm in my 60s now, and believe me, it has always been something I will never forget. And I stuttered from around 4 to 6 years old. I remember her slapping me in the face when I stuttered. She was determined I would not start 1st grade stuttering. It worked, because I became a very quiet child to the point they then thought something was "WRONG" with me. I became too scared to speak, and never asked for seconds a the table. However, I love my mother dearly. But her actions did affect me.
Talk about trauma bonding!
"You're not depressed, you just need to loose weight then you'll have more friends "- my mum after I told her I couldn't do a third year of pre-med without finally jumping in front of a truck. She never made me diet but none of my mental issues were taken into account because it came back to how much I weighted.
I took my curly haired daughter to see my 84yr old grandfather the other day. Every other word he said to her was about her hair, how she looked like a lion, or asking if she got electrocuted and that "she better not wander into the woods cuz her hair will get caught in the tree branches". She's just 9yrs old and rarely sees him... we were there for just 2 hours, she doesn't need to see him anymore >:[
If I’m lucky enough to spend time with my future grandkids or great grandkids I’m asking them what they enjoy reading or what their hobbies are. Like whys he asking her about her hair?
My grandmother loves to tell children that they are ugly. It's so bad that when I was her caretaker I wouldn't let her be around any children. Thanks, now i know where this came from.
Well isn't she a ray of sunshine. I had one grandmother like that.
My Nanna did pass on alot of these things on to me as child. Most of it for working class people was about trying to projecting good health. It was also in living memory that benefits could be rejected to not being smartly turned out, or looking visibly disabled. She was also born outside the NHS.
*So my nails were bleached and cuticles pushed back to hide the malnutrition marks.
*My thumb was covered in biters so I wouldn't suck it, and my teeth would grow straight.
*I had to stand straight to try and prevent scoliosis, and hide lack of growth from food poverty.
*I could never accept second hand shoes because my feet would grow wrong.
*And sewing and ironing were taught too to make sure we all looked as neat as possible.
She never wanted us to look like we didn't deserve the help we got.
I still makes sure I'm as smart looking as possible for any doctors appointment, because the halo effect has been show to get you better care.
That's funny because I am trying to stand up straight and make sure my kids eat enough an have nice wrinkle free clothes so they don't looked like me growing up in an underprivileged back ground. And I do have a tiny bit of scoliosis to boot. My grandma said to push on my teeth with my tongue to make them be straight to. Nope her son just gave me a jacked up mouth with to big crooked English teeth from years of not enough o eat because of his selfishness
@@ah5721 there's still a lot of bigotry if you grow up poor in the UK unfortunately. I hope you and your kids are able to get enough to eat soon. Hunger just sucks.
Is it worth asking your doctor for nutrition shakes? Or would it not be worth it with the prescription fees? (Standard that my docs does for families struggling, but we don't have the fees here).
Omg this stick so much in the moral depreciation associated to poverty. Very victorian. I feel for you (I grew up in poverty too).
Interestingly enough that halo effect you reference has had an opposite effect for me, they look at me and say, you can't be sick. I've had to fight tooth an nail for every blood panel I've ever gotten trying to figure out what's going on with me. Looking "healthy " can have the reverse effect when at doctors appointments
If there's one thing I learned from downton abby, it's how not at all far removed we are from the victorians. there's that 1 line when Cora and Mr. Grantham are celebrating their wedding anniversary and Daisy remarks on how if she got married right then what would life be like in 1950 something. And thinking about her childhood and thinking about her as someone's mom or Grandma in the 50s just really hits home how much all of that is still impacting our culture
This gives me a new appreciation for Frances Hodgson Burnett's character descriptions, particularly in The Secret Garden and A Little Princess.
I can't remember anything about my mom commenting on my body or anything like that -- she's definitely not an almond mom. Unfortunately, it's so rampant and systemic that we still experience this trauma societally -- as if by osmosis. My whole life has been spent wondering if everyone is looking at me and being horrified about my body. I've wondered if I lost job opportunities as a fat person, whether family and friends have judged and found me lacking when they see me after a while and I'm fatter. I'm sure there are some who are reading this and cringing every time I type "fat" -- because even that word is harsh. We're 'supposed' to say 'heavier' or 'plus size' or some other lesser-charged word.
And you know what's even more upsetting? The accepted fact that people with trauma are some percentage more likely to struggle with weight -- like, "oh, sorry for your crummy circumstances.... Yeah, unfortunately you now will never escape this hellish existence."
Probably the healthiest thing I've ever learned was from Schitt's Creek -- "Nobody cares, David" -- when David learns that most people are so stuck in their own insecurities, they have no time to notice other people.
Unless they're on social media, and then they unleash the Kraken.
Oh, I absolutely relate. I’m an 80s baby and an eternal fat kid: my mom wasn’t an almond mom either (though she wasn’t great around body image issues but in a different kind of way), but you’re absolutely right, there was so much of that in the culture around us it was hard to avoid. It’s only JUST in the last few years I’ve started to accept my body as it is (we’re still working on “loving” it) and goddamn has it taken a LOT of work on my part. I heartily recommend the podcast “Maintenance Phase” for some excellent unpacking of more pretty privilege/diet culture unpacking. It’s been really helpful!
I was "the smart one" growing up and my sister was "the naturally pretty one". Gads, our mother saw us as flat, one-trick ponies. I could go to college and get a well paying job since heaven knows I won't find a boy in high school that would marry me and provide for me. Who would want to marry a boy straight out of high school?
Omg. Same. I was the smart one and my sister the pretty one. So damaging for both of us. Why the boxes parents!
I'm 29. I was number 3 out of 6 kids. The "ugly sister". I remember being like 4 and meeting my grandparents who lived states away, and my dad's mom told me that I would need to work really hard in school so I could go to college, because I'd never find a husband with my face like my sister would. I had no idea what that even meant 😅 but she said it again every time I met her and the older I got I knew. Like thanks..... you do know I look just like your husband right lol
this video reminds me of northanger abbey- my favourite novel from jane austen where she starts with a whole chapter telling us how the protagonist isnt fit to be a heroine.
"she had now the pleasure of sometimes hearing her father and mother remark on her personal improvement. "Catherine grows quite a good-looking girl-she is almost pretty today," were words which caught her ears now and then; and how welcome were the sounds! *To look almost pretty is an acquisition of higher delight to a girl who has been looking plain the first fifteen years of her life than a beauty from her cradle can ever receive.* "
I work at a grocery store, and one time I saw a bone thin little girl, maybe 11 or 12, absolutely begging her mom to buy a small box of cheerios. She was pleading, saying "It says natural flavouring!" and "I promise I'll eat it with almond milk!" Her mother forced her to read out all of the ingredients on the back of the box in front of me while repeatedly telling her "If you eat that, you're going to break out again!"
Really stark reminder that this kind of treatment towards children is very much not dead
I'm was that bone thin little girl. My mom was body neutral as much as she could be inthe 90s saying she only wanted to lose weight to be healthy. We also lived off welfare. I feel bad for that little girl, BUT not being able to eat dairy myself I can't help but wonder if the cherrios or milk didn't agree with her .
Well, if the stuff could cause a break-out then it was right not to buy her the sweets.
I don't like how the mother treated her daughter in public, though.
@@saymyname2417 Cheerios aren't sweets. It's a cereal. A none sugary, considered to be healthy cereal
@@RaspberryHugs - Yes there are low sugar variants and Cheerios may be far less unhealthy than most of its kind.
But if it is harmful for this particular child it doesn't really matter which product group the stuff belongs to. It's detrimental to her health and thus, shouldn't be given to her.
Maybe she breaks out in eczema from the gluten in it…my nephew had horrible eczema as a baby until they figured out he was allergic to eggs. But the way the mom did that sounds harsh for sure. 😊
"almond Mom" is a great name for that type of narcissistic abuse. The first diet I was put on was in 1989. My mom wanted everyone in the family to do Jenny Creg with her. So, as a high school athlete, I needed up to 4000 kcal a day (go Nutrition classes in culinary school), I was eating 1200 kcal a day and being ridiculed at home and at meetings for not losing enough weight. I was 13, 5'5", and 145, and swimming Olympic qualifying times and still considered "fat". About 10 years later I was approached by a Barbizon recruiter, "You are so pretty, we can make a model out of you," etc. I get in, pay them and am told that they will work with me but there isn't much call for Plus Sized models. Still 5'5", still 145. Yeah, not fun... Thank you Abby for covering this topic.
The way you just hit me in the gut with this because we were the same size. I cut out a whole section of me talking about my own experience growing up in the 2000s, cause it felt too much like trauma dumping...but I just wanna say that this resonated so much. I wasn't as athletic as you, but man those numbers hit so hard.
@@AbbyCox Sending you and your 2000s self lots of hugs. Humans are so cruel.
Narcissistic abuse is not a thing
@@mirawinemiller1081they mean abuse from narcissists....
Oh hell, at 13 I was 150 and 5'9", and I got told I was too fat.
Bottom line is, we all got told we were too fat, and put on diets.
Which were not good for us, and in most cases ultimately made us fatter.
Watching Kaz try to hold it together reading others to filth is amazing 😂💀 we appreciate the Victorian roasting.
I distinctly remember researching on Eleanor Roosevelt, that when she was younger, her mother and aunt perceived her as ugly and referred to her as an old lady cause she was such a somber child and "didn't have her mothers beauty.." The ONLY person in her life that made her feel great was her father who unfortunately died when she 9/10. Despite the crappy treatment she rose up against it to become a remarkable women.
Heaven forbid, red hair! (proud natural ginge here) 😱😱😱 And now people are dyeing their hair red 😂 Gotta love arbitrary beauty standards 🤷🏼♀️🤨
Speaking of ‘ugly’, I remember going through books that described the word in reductive terms. That was very sad to go through. Casteism and Racism create that hellfire for future generations to come.
I remember my aunt telling my mom once in the early 00's (I was 23) "She's be trouble with the boys if she lost weight." Weight shaming is why I didn't get deep into historical costuming when I was younger even though I was in love with it and I regret it so much now that I've hit 40. Seeing younger women (and even older ones!) exploring the things they love has given me a sense of courage that I, too can not GAF.
My only typical female body issues were from society, fortunately not from my parents. My mom's mom took her to the doctor for having stretch marks WHEN SHE WAS 12 because obviously something was wrong (?!) and her HS home ec class had a bit on what the "ideal" female physique was. This was in the 50's so the women on that brick house side of the family were never going to be tiny. My mom was a nurse who mostly did focus on healthy food (we were limited on sugars and she didn't cook a lot of fatty meats). I was still a chubby kid but because she didn't pass the trauma down and shame me or tell me I was fat I haven't had the same psychological issues other women have had.
The sheer expresion on Nicole's face during the ad "Abby... Abby... I love you. but what the hell are you doing? Why are you being a chaos goblin?" while at the same time trying so hard not to laugh because of the chaos of it all. Love the energy.
As a mom of 2 boys I feel pressure from doctors and society to make sure they are “healthy”. Can’t imagine how the mothers of girls feel.
Same. I recently texted my friend, who is also a mom of two boys, that perhaps we were lucky we didn't have daughters. I said it jokingly but there was truth in it.
Those quotes around "healthy" are doing so much work, but it's such a great way to put it.
as a daughter myself I think I can confidently say that mothers of daughters who prioritize approval from society, typically are their daughters’ first bullies & all levels of Unhinged.
I'm a mama of of of each . I noticed as my son got bigger and I had a daughter that my son got less attention for being cute and my daughter was not just cute but "pretty" and get more attention for her physical appearance. I hate it, I try to make sure that she knows she's smart and more than just a pretty face. 😠
Could you go into more depth about what "healthy" implies? I've seen many people talk about the pressures of raising girls, but I've never heard any mothers describe the social pressures of raising boys-- I've only heard boys and men talk about their own experiences growing up, which isn't quite the same.
My grandma was born in the late 30s and as a child she would constantly bring up how she had a 20 something inch waist. This was said more in a, "this was my ultimate accomplishment" kind of way, and would frequently remind me not to eat too much and to avoid certain emotions because it made my face, "look like a bloated frog" (crying). They were seriously mentally hurt! So glad to live in the 2ks instead lol we have a long way to go but this is clearly better than what they went through.
My mother put me and my sister on restrictive diets when I was 7 or so, right about 1984. She was anorexic her entire life and she'd tell us stories about how she and her friends would go to the doctor to get diet pills with fishing weights hidden in their pockets. I thought I was fat my entire life but if I look at pictures from years ago, I wish I was "fat" like that now! I had no idea until watching this video that my mother was not an outlier. Kind of blew my mind a little, in a good way. Thanks, Abby! :)
Seeing other creators collaborating with you is kind of like the CosTube/HistoryTube Avengers. Love it!
1:27 my mother hid one of my sisters & my brother, 4 months with my sister, & nearly as long with my brother. My sister was delivered by forceps and was bruised a bit, so my mom waited for that to go away, & my brother was very skinny, so he needed to gain weight. She wasn’t going to let it be said she had an ugly baby. She couldn’t hide me (her least appealing looking child) though and I was born in 1973.
I’ve heard everyone say how my siblings were just beautiful babies (if you rule out the brief period of being bruised and underweight) but I was never included in the list. I still look at my baby picture and think what an ugly child I was.
It’s probably one of the factors of why I generally don’t see myself as attractive to this day. So…it went on past the 1950’s. I still heard “Thank goodness she’s cute” come out of both my mothers and my grandmothers mouths with my first & second babies in the 90’s.
It’s still on our minds, I just think we’re a little better at hiding it now.
❤️ oof. I am so sorry that you went through that. ❤️
My boyfriend was yanked out with the forceps in 1959 which crushed one side of his head leaving him half deaf, half blind and requiring reconstruction surgery to his skull and collarbone, so it could've been worse for your brother. That said, most babies are ugly with faces only a mother could love. "You're lucky yer cute" is something I say everyday to my pets after they make a mess, it's a truism that's timeless. People have been F'd up in general forever and I don't see things changing anytime soon. The last 3 yrs. are a prime example. Remember when we used to put the bumper stickers on our cars that said Question Authority? Nothings changed. People are lemmings.
👏👏👏👏👏 Kudos for this masterpiece of a cultural takedown. Not that I don't love the historical dress content - obviously I do. But I also love how you sometimes just pull one of these bangers out of your tie-on, wine-bottle-capacity Victorian pockets and remind all of us that you are not just an a font of silly shenanigans and cool historical fashion, but are also a highly trained historian who is as capable of stitching together a hard-hitting, well-researched, relevant and powerful piece of content as you are an Edwardian chemise. Brava!
The best and most eloquent comment I have read lately! And so true. Respect to Abby💪🏼💪🏼
Well said!
Abby, I listened with great interest as you pointed out that the development of the fat phobia that our society currently has came primarily out of the Victorian fear of ugly children/ugly woman. It is certainly much more acceptable for a man to be overweight than it is for a woman. I have been overweight, virtually all of my life. I was always the one who was told by well-meaning individuals, “you have such a pretty face is only…“. I have now lost through gastric bypass and maintained a loss of over 200 pounds. Yet I am still significantly overweight by modern American standards. There are so many well-meaning people who say why don’t you just quit eating so much, or why don’t you just exercise more? These individuals have obviously not done their research regarding this issue. Less than 5% of people who lose 5 pounds will be successful in maintaining that weight loss for five years. This is of all people who try to lose weight. If that was the treatment rate for someone with any other illness, I can think of, but you could live with the onus. It’s just going to be an annoyance. Most people would say don’t bother not with those statistics. Yet the overweight are told fix it. And I see now that yes, it’s rooted in a culture that valued a woman based on what she looked like and we have merely replace the word ugly with fat for equated fat with ugly. And others don’t realize the incredible damage they’re doing to their daughters when they buy into this kind of thing. I’m 64 and have at my current weight been told many times that I’m a beautiful woman and yet I can’t see it because I’m still fat. All I can see is ugly.
You should go watch someone like Kiana Doherty for information about diet and obesity.
I like Abby but the obesity information in this video is just science denial.
You should be proud of the weight loss you have been able to maintain. It is a difficult achievement. You won't "save" your mental health, not if it comes at the cost of your physical health. The mind is part of the body and will follow.
You've already achieved a very difficult thing by maintaining that weight loss, so you have a strong mind. Don't allow fat acceptance propaganda to prey on your trauma, vulnerabilities, and insecurities. Buying into that propaganda will only lead you down a road of decreased health, worse mental health, and living in delusion.
@moodswingsout er sry, but acceptance is the first Step to changing anything you want to change. So maybe go put your toned down fatfobia somewhere else... I'm disabled in some other way and I really hate when people say that it is propaganda to love your body even if it is not perfectly health. It's just so f*cking ableist. Yes, you are telling all unhealthy people that they can't love themselves and have the right to do or not do what they want with their bodies. Arrg.
@moodswingsout No Abby is right and so is this commenter.
I am so glad that we are evolving beyond the myth of calories in, calories out. No matter how much less an obese person eats than everyone around them, there are still multitudes who go out of their way to blame them for their own demise.
I was 14, finally going through puberty. I was no longer shaped like a plank of wood. My Gram was visiting for the first time in three years. Mum insisted on me dressing up. We met her at the plane. The first thing she did on seeing her only Granddaughter after three years? Hug me, Kiss me? No, she spun me around to look me over. Then she tells me. " You've gotten fat. Why are you getting so big?" Rather than answer I simply walked away.
Why was I getting so big? I was 14, not 11. I'd developed a feminine figure. Until that moment I left good about it. She crushed me that day. Our relationship was never the same.
I had a girl shame me for eating a granola bar once bc it had some ingredient in it. She is real skinny. Meanwhile, while she always critiqued my food, she drinks 6 redbulls and smokes at least a pack a day, acting like it was nothing.
This was so good!! Love the cameos
Wow that girl is drinking 3x the amount of sugar you ate and living on empty calories! Sounds reeeaaal healthy (insert sarcasm here)
Heart attacks and lung cancer are very real.
So fat shaming started roughly when sugar started becoming an ingredient in everything? Especially in the 50s..
Yep, basically. There's always nuance (and this topic needs to be its own video), but Victorians were just as concerned about being "too skinny/scrawny" as they were about being "too large" so this focus on skinniness and fear of fatness is definitely a 20th century thing 🫠
Right on.
Obesity became a more prominent health concern as our environment became more and more obesogenic. The people who deny it just end up aiding the sugar industry which is just killing people who get addicted to sugar and other overprocessed carbs.
But we have known about the health impacts of excessive fat for centuries
@@Shutt1ngupn03 Yeah and I'm sure it's absolutely no coincidence that most of the medical studies proclaiming all the health impacts of 'excessive fat' are funded by the diet industry .... Go do some reading into it. Modern medicine has NOT established causation (as opposed to correlation) in most diseases that list 'obesity' as a risk factor. Most doctors just assume that if you're fat, you're unhealthy. And if you're not unhealthy now, then you will be eventually, and then it will be your own fault for being such a fatty. Medical fatphobia is just as bad or worse than the layman's.
Beauty in our society is so toxic, it is hard to put into words. I know the second half was focusing on fat shaming but let me tell you my story, how being skinny does not save you either.
I was always skinny and tall, so you'd think I won the genetic lottery.
Except I am not traditionally feminine, like those women on social media who are going viral because of her looks.
On the bright side, my family and my mum always found me pretty.
But oh boy, society decided otherwise. I was told ALL my life, that "you are the one people like because of personality and not looks."
I was labeled as a man dressed up as a woman on social media (oh, tumble days, 2010ish), got photoshopped photos posted on my online with a horsehead edited onto my face, etc.
And all you see from men on social media that every woman who is not that super delicate and feminine type have "man hands", "this is a trap". It made me incredibly insecure to the point that I just wanted to hide from people and staying inside my house more and just remove myself from society completely.
I am not saying, feel sorry for me, I made peace with myself, I just wanna point out that it does not matter how you look, society will find something "wrong" with you. Always. Especially if you are a woman.
thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.
Talking with friends from other countries I noticed as well that being tall and slim is not always considered the ideal.
I met a woman from Mozambique, who honestly looked like a model, tall, slim elegant legs.. And yet she said she hated her legs because she was mocked for it. What was considered beautiful in her country were larger tights and calfs 🤷🏻♀️
On one hand, it's good to see how people are perfectly able to appreciate different bodies. But it's a shame that in a specific space and time, only One type is considered beautiful.
no matter what you look like as a woman, you will be torn apart for it. it is so sad how almost every woman grows up thinking that she’s not worth anything more than how she looks. i am glad you have found peace.
It was all about weight, hair, grades, and being popular when I was growing up. At school in the 70s to early 80s, but living in a Victorian-leaning family. My mom was fat (likely an endocrine issue), I'm fat (shocking, an endocrine issue!), fat ran in the fam, and we all knew if we just were "strong enough," we could defeat it. God. And it was the preppie era! Seriously, whiplash daily. Even now at nearly 60, I wonder what people I'm newly meeting think. Do they remember that I'm funny and well-read? Or am I just the fat (IE, ugly) woman?
I love that you got Kaz in this shoot!!! A couple of my fave UA-camrs in the same video always makes me smile
I'm choosing to believe that you just ambushed Nicole with most of that ad break 😂🤣 Hilarious! (Also really enjoyed this deep dive, wow 😮)
As someone who has struggled with weight for a long time I am very glad to see you bring this subject up in the video and the "moral superiority" people attach to being thin. I hate that others feel they have the right to judge anyone based on the way their body looks or their weight. It's none of their business. I recognize even as I exercise and do what I can to eat more healthily that I will never obtain what is viewed as "acceptable" to society and the public eye. And at the end of the day so long as I am healthy regardless of what I look like then that's just fine with me. It's taken me a long time to accept this is my body and feeling good in it but also dressing the way I want. I started wearing shorts again and it felt amazing and liberating. I found a dress recently that absolutely enchanted me. After trying it on I felt glamorous and loved the dress even more. Shout out to Laura Conrad who seems to be the only celebrity to design clothes and realize that plus sized women want to have beautiful clothes and not shapeless sacks because I felt seen in putting on that glorious dress
yeah, my mom thinks because I am overweight (and she isn't) that she's superior in some way, also talks to me as if I am lazy. But the fact is she actively underfed me as a baby (she admitted to putting me on a "diet" to prevent my getting big even though I wasn't) and underfed me as a teenager (terrified I'd get fat). I was always skinny growing up but had undiagnosed celiac disease. Now my body/metabolism is so ravaged from being sick for decades without a diagnosis that I am overweight now. I don't care though because at least I am nourishing myself and am able to take care of myself now.
Body positivity is not hating yourself , but it also means not abusing your body with massive amount of calories and inactivity. This is a very dangerous time to normalize obesity . 2023 is all about feelings and ignoring biology. Unfortunately science doesn't care about your self esteem. Diabetes, joint problems, heart problems , digestive problems and high blood pressure are just a few . You don't have to be a size zero but 100 plus pounds is a health issue . Honor your body by taking care of it .
@@PTRAINBOYthis person says they exercise and try to eat right. is that not enough?
@@PTRAINBOY stop it already!
My great grandmother grew up during the twenties and was obssesed with thinness. To this day her youngest child lived with an ED for 50+ years, my mother struggled with one (my great grandma forced her to wear shapewear from the age of 7), I, my sister and a couple of my cousins have as well. We've have had the almond mom going for generations and I'm sure as hell breaking this curse for my kids, if having to cut ties with my family has to be done for it, I will.
...this gives a whole new light on Anne of Green Gables.
omg. how did i miss this connection 🤯
Oh my god I've just finished the whole series and this stuff is EVERYWHERE in it. I love the Anne books, but the near constant references to the attractiveness or ugliness of certain characters drove me up a wall.
@@anatomicalvenusI was specifically thinking of the part in the first book where Anne talks about her foster families constantly telling her she was ugly, but that her mother thought she was perfectly beautiful, and that she's glad her mother was satisfied with her.
@AbbyCox your information makes LM Montgomery even more awesome in my eyes. She literally has Marilla remember being treated like shit by relatives for being homely, and then tells off HER BEST FRIEND for talking shit about Anne's looks. Montgomery knew how awful it was to be told by authority figures how ugly you were, and set out to create a better world in her book.
@kellyburds2991 Anne gets into trouble for trying to make herself more beautiful, like when she dyed her hair green and her cheeks with dye. She often learned a lesson to not pursue changing one's appearance and pamper their vanity.
I feel sad that Eleanor Roosevelt and her generation went through this crazy.
I’m obsessed with Kaz just suddenly appearing in the re-enactments with no warning or explanation 😂❤ I was so pleasantly surprised!
This is such a great video. It is so important. The fact that people shame obesity but completely disregards that obesity is generally tied to poverty because their choice is to either starve to get a tiny bit of that pricey pricey "healthy food" or actually get sustance but of poor quality and food that feeds into feeling hungry and much more calorie dense.
Gigi and Bella Hadid’s mom was, I believe, the original almond mom, she basically starved them so they would get modeling jobs.
No. This was around long before either have been alive
@@RaspberryHugsI think she just coined the term almond mom. There were almond moms before her. They just didn’t have the name. There’s a video clip of Gig or Bella calling her mom and saying she’s feeling terrible and her mom told her to chew up a few almonds really well and eat them. Somehow that would solve the problem.
This is still very common in desi cultures. I was told to lay my boys to sleep in a cereal so they would have a broad face. The idea is that babies bones are still soft and shapable when they’re very young. You can also see a lot of this mentality in literature like Anne of green gables.
How do you lay babies in cereal? 🤔
Certain way*** 😂😂😂
I'm 55 and I have vivid memories of my mother telling me in my teen years and early 20's repeatedly about how my body needed to confirm to societal standards or else I'd, basically, die alone. Even years after I was married. It was a combination of ugly child and fat child shaming. The last time I accepted one of her comments was when I answered the door while getting ready for an event. Her saying, 'Put some lipstick on, you look like your dead' will always come to mind when I think of her.
Okay but Kaz Rowe being in this video made my entire day. We love and support Kaz in this household
These days women are having long eyelashes put on or maintained every two weeks in addition to hair and nails done and others are getting larger lips and many are getting surgery for bigger breasts and/ or butts. You shouldn’t let anyone or society make you feel you need any of it. Great video!
My mom was an "ugly child" in her family, and yes it really messed with her head. I know she thought I was, because she could never tell me I was pretty. To her credit, she at didn't tell me out right I was ugly, like her family did to her.
I am a new mom and my daughter is currently 17 weeks old. And I felt this pressure to have a pretty daughter on day 10 of her life when my MIL commented on her appearance and how I should assist her to make her look better. Her suggestions were akin to the Victorian mom’s suggestions to cut the lashes and stroke the nose. Do you know how mad this made me! 🤬 Not only is my daughter beautiful (and not just in a mother’s love for her potato baby type way), but she is beautiful in general EVEN WITH her ethnic features. My goal is to raise her in a body positive home where chubby thighs mean strong thighs and Mama’s squishy tummy is a symbol of pride and strength for creating life within it. I don’t want her to think her Asian-ness is a curse.
Thank you Abby for your call to bettering our beauty ideals! 🙌🏻
Thank you for the warnings at the beginning of the video. I'm skipping this video because I suffered from body dysmorphia for about half a year after I recovered from Covid. More than I hate missing one of your videos, I love how considerate you are of your viewers. Again, please accept my heartfelt thanks. ❤
The scary doll with the goose honks just I couldn't!🤣
The Arranged Marriage always brings tears to my eyes. Not only is it absolutely stunning, the story behind it is heartbreaking.
Many arranged marriages are lovely
@@beautyonabarnbudget talking about the painting, not the concept itself. I don’t agree w arranged marriages, I think they’re awful.
@@Justlurkin_lolI don't know the painting or story behind it, and I'm not from a culture who does have arranged marriage in the 21st century.
But I do have friends who come from cultures where arranged marriages are the norm in the UK in the 21st century (ie, now & where I live). My friends say that the modern norm is for the families to wait the woman to say she's ready to look at getting married, and at that point, the family looks around for suitable partners. What makes them suitable? Having similar views on their religion, education, equal rights etc. Checking out their backgrounds to be sure they really are what they claim to be. (I assume this goes the other way too, with the man's family checking the potential brides, but I've not had this discussion.) They meet and either can say "no, not really what I was looking for" and it's not unless they're both saying "wow, this is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with" that discussions go further.
Is it weird to me? Yes, it is. Are my friends happily married? Yes they are. Am I happily married to the people I found on my own? No, one was an alcoholic and the other had an affair and left. Do I think arranged marriage and online dating have something in common? Well, since I mentioned it...
Forced marriage is WRONG. There's no question about that. As is child marriage. But I think many of us (including me) have an emotional response to arranged marriage that doesn't see the reasons why it can be what people want.
@@lyannecb8499 friend, you've kind of described an Omiai from Japan. The problem with the family as yenta thing is just the amount of social pressure involved, I think. I'm glad it worked out for your friends.
@@lyannecb8499 so the actual name of the piece is called the unequal marriage, it depicts a young girl being married off to a much older man. In the painting, one can see the tears in her eyes and the desperate, vulnerable expression of both her face and body language. Next to her, the groom looks down on her as she helplessly reaches out towards the priest. Behind them are 5 men and what appears to be the apparition of an older woman, perhaps the groom’s previous bride or a vision of the bride’s future. Directly behind the bride, the man looking away with disgusted expression, is thought to be the artist and the man who fell in love with the bride, but she was married off by her parents to an older, presumably richer bachelor. The artist made this piece to depict the nature of arranged marriages at the time, contractual obligations young women were forced into for the potential economic benefits they could offer the family. Girls married off for money, not for love, and by her helpless expression, one can see the weight of this obligation. The painting is actually quite a tragic one and if you’re interested, I encourage you to look more into it. Unrequited love, a beautiful young woman being married off to a much older man, and her complete lack of power to stop it.
My mother had her own issues, but body image and beauty standards were NOT things I was abused with as a child. I am so grateful to her, and wish I could thank her for not judging me on appearances or equating them with goodness. Miss you, mom.
I am large and have learned to ignore being called ugly because of my weight. But I can't stand it when they tell me that I'm lazy and I don't have willpower. Not only is this really humiliating, it's not true. And it's absolute crap to hear that from people who are lucky with metabolism and who (unlike me) don't get up at 6am to go to the pool before work 6 days a week, and don't go to classes after work. Who don't take 10,000 steps a day, don't count calories, and listnen "lessons" about their laziness.
A friend of mine fell into a bad depression partly because of their weight. Turns out their thyroid wasn’t working properly and they had water in her legs. As far as I know everyone liked them and it took me ages to find out something was wrong with them.
oh my goooosh the almond moms, my mom once yelled at me for eating a banana after dance class, because dinner was going to be ready in 30. But c'mon, mom. I was a teen dancing 6 days a week and it was a banana.
my parents are both on a diet before my brother's wedding and i don't even think i'm going to buy any spanx. how I escaped adolescence without an eating disorder, I really don't know.
Thanks for making this video!!!! Loved the guest stars!
Please consider making a video on how WW1 and WW2 changed womens fashion!
Abby I just want to say that I find your content on body image, personal image, food, looks etc to be incredibly healing and empowering. I'm a history student who loves fashion and grew up with something of an almond mom although not as severe, and seeing your informed, philosophical, and multisided thoughts on these things really comforts me and is very thought provoking. Please keep making these sorts of videos- I love your work.
As someone who became fat during eating disorder recovering this is spot on. Also if anyone is interested in learning more about the racialized under and overtones to fatphobia I highly recommend Fearing the Black body: The racial origins of fatphobia by Sabrina strings !
6:01 In Sociology, we learned about Lombroso who posited that a criminal can be spotted through physical attributes.
Abbyyyyy…my mom did some of these things to me! Okay, she subscribed to physiognomy (don’t get me started it’s still a problem), she trimmed my eyelashes as a baby, and rotated my crib by 20 degrees every day since I always turned my head to face the light. She massaged my legs to make them grow straight and long, and the arches of my feet to “create” high arches. She completely forgot my torso lmao
There was one of those prime time news shows like 60 mins who did an exposé about pretty privilege. It revealed that beautiful people got jobs and pretty much better care wherever they went. We haven't changed.