Hi I have a question if you don't mind We have addressable facp with P.S.U fault and Device fault alarm The 2nd one is conventional FACP after changing the batteries with new one I still get BATTERY fault alarm Any suggestions ? Thanks in advance
I believe PSU fault is an issue with the power supply. device fault could be a couple different things it could be a device missing from the SLC loop which will usually show up as invalid reply or it could be a nac fault. If you’re sure the batteries are putting out around 26-27 VDC that could be an issue with the board and if you haven’t already try resetting the system to see if the fault will clear.
It was obvious to me that the cause of the problem was that you had two sets of ground connections in one switch box. They were probably tied together at one point but somebody forgot to hook them together when replacing a switch. There is no reason to have two sets of ground wires that are not connected together in one box.
Thats it ! you called it, another way to trouble shoot that trace is test hot and usually in a room or next to the receptacle that works right. I was afraid he was going to remove every outlet & fixture in the house with a few switches included. These clients always expect you to know and go right to the problem no matter what.
@@alhawkins3376 Can you elaborate on test hot in room or next receptacle? Do you mean to test hot to ground using the same method on a good working/grounded receptacle or switch?
I also once saw 40-ish volts neutral-to-ground. What can sometimes happen is a completely disconnected (ground) wire inductively picks up voltage from its neighbor (hot) wire and this "ghost voltage" shows up on high-impedance multimeters like yours. The voltage would disappear if you measure with a low-impedance multimeter.
A couple years back, I had a problem similar to the one in this video. I discovered the problem while dealing with an unrelated problem -- a poor connection in the hot lead to a ceiling lamp. While diagnosing that issue, I discovered that I, too, was getting ~46V on the ground lead. Fixing that lamp connection didn't resolve the odd voltage on the ground, and eventually surmised that that was ghost voltage. (Side note: Maybe had I been using an old galvanometer-based ammeter, I'd never have even seen that ghost voltage, due to the lower sensitivity of the meter.) The fault in my case turned out to be a broken ground lead in the wiring. This was the one 3-conductor cable in my house that had an aluminum ground lead (but copper hot and neutral leads)! located the break between two outlet boxes, but couldn't located it closely enough to know where to punch a hole in the sheetrock. (Note: Using long leads, I indeed did confirm a lack of connectivity in the ground lead between upstream and downstream of this area.) I ended up finding an accessible outlet downstream of the ground lead break, and ran a separate ground lead to that outlet. Problem solved. This was probably the biggest headache I've ever had in my old house. I suggest all readers visit their breaker box and look for aluminum conductors and treat those as highly suspect.
Asp to remember checking j boxes with power on you never know if it’s a multi circuit u drop a neutral you will give that line 240 and fry a tv computer what ever is plugged in
You need to revisit this home immediately or at least let them know they potentially have an unsafe panel. Many Stab-Lok panels had their UL listing revoked because they do not trip. Ask me how I know after a small house fire in 2017.
I’ve got 4 receptacles and two light that will not work. All on same breaker . Open ground but all ground is good and tight. Haven’t checked breaker box.
I have an outlet showing open ground when I test it then two other outlets showing nothing. I checked breaker box and a breaker is off. I flipped the breaker back on and the two outlets that were off came back on and test good. I checked outlet that said open ground and now it tests correct? I do not understand how a breaker fixed the open ground? Any ideas and or advice how to track down and fix this problem?
Right before the continuity ground test at 7:22 , your left light switch top J hook doesn't even look like it's around the screw nor under the screw. I did see some other J hooks that were very sloppy on your receptacles. If you are going to replace everything, do it neatly and correct.
Thanks for the video but at the 6:32 mark your hand and arm completely block what you are touching. I wish I could have seen what the lead was touching instead of your hand and arm
1. All the grounds in the light switch box weren’t tied together. 2. When you were in the breaker panel you had a black wire going to the neutral bus bar and a white wire going to a breaker. Are you sure those two aren’t reversed? 3. Take every switch box, light box, and outlet box back apart and remove every wire nut off and confirm all wires are connected properly. 4. Use an extension cord hooked to a known good outlet and stretch it back to your problem area and check from the ground of the extension cord to each box and check voltage. You can also jumper the ground from the extension cord to each ground point in each box in the affected area and see what/where it corrects the problem. If it does. 5. At 12:21 is the switch on the right a 3-way switch? I noticed the white neutral wire but couldn’t see it well enough to tell much about the switch. I saw a black, red, and white wire but couldn’t tell if there was a ground wire going to the ground pigtail.
I cant agree with the extension cord, of course it will read correct and read ok if connected so why bother? He used his tester well to isolate, even tested continuity so overall he troubleshot it well , just took to long to isolate cause it may not be a loose or problem as he expected, just a ground that had a path not direct back to the panel.
An extension cord would be a good way to test connectivity from one box to the next to find if there are any breaks in the ground wire. He tested voltages but did not test continuity.
Did you ever find a broken ground? I'm finding myself in this situation now and not sure where it could be broken. Most outlets on the circuit are ok, except for one. There is a ground wire present and connected. I tried replacing the receptacle but no dice. Still have to test one switch. I don't really know where they tapped into the line to run this outlet so it's hard to trace it. Frustrating for sure.
Frustrating for sure I did not find it but I also haven’t looked since splicing all the ground conductors together which there’s no reason for them not to be anyways
@@nics-systems-electric thanks for the feedback and the video. I feel like I gained some insight from watching. I'm very much new to all of this and mostly fumbling my way through things but am focussed on setting it up correctly. I am working on an attic remodel and wired 4 new outlets only to find that the wire I'm tapping into has open ground. I can't leave it this way so I either complete my mission and find the open ground or I'm calling the electrician. I literally think about it the moment I wake up. Lol it's haunting me
@@nics-systems-electricHopefully someone didn’t splice romex into hidden knob&tube work in the wall somewhere!! How old is the house? Could be the same scenario with this DANGEROUS hidden splicing of old BX to modern ROMEX hidden in some wall somewhere!!!
@@johnpetite7331 it did solve this issue though still isn't the best as there is still a open ground somewhere back to the panel on the affected circuit which would be ideal to find
@nics-systems-electric have you found it yet? It's been 2 yrs. Just curious because I have a series of open ground receptacles and I'm about to start tracing it all. Hoping to come across a video that it's been solved without opening up the walls.
@@johnpetite7331 no I haven't found it I haven't looked since. likely The original feed was cut and re-fed but grounds weren't re-spliced to the new feed potentially
@@nics-systems-electric but Nec code says replace a 2 prong with a 3 prong Gfci is within code but this senerio the outlets lost their ground somehow and you had to fix it
Also at the box I know u learn a lot in class and what not don’t start moving wires arround like that in the box forst put ur meter on it and one by one check all connections even the bare wire that is screwed down onto the neutral bar ground bar and breaker they can sometimes ark and and burn away making it not contact but if u check the screw head it will show voltage
No way would your service panels, covered by another lift off panel would be legal in Indiana. Plus you don't have a 3' x 3' work area in front of your panels. WTH kind of set up is this?
@@nics-systems-electric I'd be careful touching metal plates, ground wires, and other things you assume are not hot, because they can be mis-wired or shorted to be hot. Gloves and a non-contact tester can increase your margin of safety.
I cringed every time you yanked your tester out of a socket by the cord....with no strain relief...not that you should need one! Usually this is what NOT to do!
@@nics-systems-electric why do you spend so much time with a screwdriver? Well we're at it. They also make extensions for those vacuum cleaners so you don't have to crawl around on the floor. So much. Like they used to say to the kids when we were out surfing and they were getting in our way on their boogie boards. "Be a man. Learn to stand"
Hi
I have a question if you don't mind
We have addressable facp with P.S.U fault and Device fault alarm
The 2nd one is conventional FACP after changing the batteries with new one I still get BATTERY fault alarm
Any suggestions ?
Thanks in advance
I believe PSU fault is an issue with the power supply. device fault could be a couple different things it could be a device missing from the SLC loop which will usually show up as invalid reply or it could be a nac fault. If you’re sure the batteries are putting out around 26-27 VDC that could be an issue with the board and if you haven’t already try resetting the system to see if the fault will clear.
It was obvious to me that the cause of the problem was that you had two sets of ground connections in one switch box. They were probably tied together at one point but somebody forgot to hook them together when replacing a switch. There is no reason to have two sets of ground wires that are not connected together in one box.
Thats it ! you called it, another way to trouble shoot that trace is test hot and usually in a room or next to the receptacle that works right. I was afraid he was going to remove every outlet & fixture in the house with a few switches included. These clients always expect you to know and go right to the problem no matter what.
@@alhawkins3376 Can you elaborate on test hot in room or next receptacle? Do you mean to test hot to ground using the same method on a good working/grounded receptacle or switch?
I’m laughing because of the Winnie the Pooh zooms, 😂😂😂. Thanks for the video!
You are really good I like how you always do it step by step!! Keep moving forward!! Have fun!! ...
I also once saw 40-ish volts neutral-to-ground. What can sometimes happen is a completely disconnected (ground) wire inductively picks up voltage from its neighbor (hot) wire and this "ghost voltage" shows up on high-impedance multimeters like yours. The voltage would disappear if you measure with a low-impedance multimeter.
A couple years back, I had a problem similar to the one in this video. I discovered the problem while dealing with an unrelated problem -- a poor connection in the hot lead to a ceiling lamp. While diagnosing that issue, I discovered that I, too, was getting ~46V on the ground lead. Fixing that lamp connection didn't resolve the odd voltage on the ground, and eventually surmised that that was ghost voltage. (Side note: Maybe had I been using an old galvanometer-based ammeter, I'd never have even seen that ghost voltage, due to the lower sensitivity of the meter.)
The fault in my case turned out to be a broken ground lead in the wiring. This was the one 3-conductor cable in my house that had an aluminum ground lead (but copper hot and neutral leads)! located the break between two outlet boxes, but couldn't located it closely enough to know where to punch a hole in the sheetrock. (Note: Using long leads, I indeed did confirm a lack of connectivity in the ground lead between upstream and downstream of this area.) I ended up finding an accessible outlet downstream of the ground lead break, and ran a separate ground lead to that outlet. Problem solved.
This was probably the biggest headache I've ever had in my old house. I suggest all readers visit their breaker box and look for aluminum conductors and treat those as highly suspect.
Very informative video Great way to describe and find the problems in detail
Thanks
I hope you eventually find the problem. Keep up the great work 👍!
Step 2, replace that panel. Lol Nice Video!
That was your issue lol switch box used as a j box hot and neutrals and grounds together then pigtailed to the switch up to the lights
Very nice video ,thanks!!!!
Winnie-the-Pooh, watchin' u!!! 😂
Great detective work
Nice video!
Nice troubleshooting skills
It'll be in the last one you check. Always how it goes
Asp to remember checking j boxes with power on you never know if it’s a multi circuit u drop a neutral you will give that line 240 and fry a tv computer what ever is plugged in
Cool
You need to revisit this home immediately or at least let them know they potentially have an unsafe panel. Many Stab-Lok panels had their UL listing revoked because they do not trip. Ask me how I know after a small house fire in 2017.
This is my house and they seem to still be CSA listed in Canada but yes I'm fully aware of the issues that federal pioneer panels and breakers have.
Thank you,
I’ve got 4 receptacles and two light that will not work. All on same breaker . Open ground but all ground is good and tight. Haven’t checked breaker box.
I have same issues right now did you figure It out
10/10
I have live current like 0.3 in my Comcast coaxial cable why ? It’s getting in the way of my internet
When i have a surge protector when its plugged in it shows if its grounded if not that needs to be fixed
I have an outlet showing open ground when I test it then two other outlets showing nothing. I checked breaker box and a breaker is off. I flipped the breaker back on and the two outlets that were off came back on and test good. I checked outlet that said open ground and now it tests correct? I do not understand how a breaker fixed the open ground? Any ideas and or advice how to track down and fix this problem?
How did it read open ground with the circuit off? sounds impossible.
Right before the continuity ground test at 7:22 , your left light switch top J hook doesn't even look like it's around the screw nor under the screw. I did see some other J hooks that were very sloppy on your receptacles. If you are going to replace everything, do it neatly and correct.
Thanks for the video but at the 6:32 mark your hand and arm completely block what you are touching. I wish I could have seen what the lead was touching instead of your hand and arm
1. All the grounds in the light switch box weren’t tied together.
2. When you were in the breaker panel you had a black wire going to the neutral bus bar and a white wire going to a breaker. Are you sure those two aren’t reversed?
3. Take every switch box, light box, and outlet box back apart and remove every wire nut off and confirm all wires are connected properly.
4. Use an extension cord hooked to a known good outlet and stretch it back to your problem area and check from the ground of the extension cord to each box and check voltage. You can also jumper the ground from the extension cord to each ground point in each box in the affected area and see what/where it corrects the problem. If it does.
5. At 12:21 is the switch on the right a 3-way switch? I noticed the white neutral wire but couldn’t see it well enough to tell much about the switch. I saw a black, red, and white wire but couldn’t tell if there was a ground wire going to the ground pigtail.
I cant agree with the extension cord, of course it will read correct and read ok if connected so why bother? He used his tester well to isolate, even tested continuity so overall he troubleshot it well , just took to long to isolate cause it may not be a loose or problem as he expected, just a ground that had a path not direct back to the panel.
An extension cord would be a good way to test connectivity from one box to the next to find if there are any breaks in the ground wire. He tested voltages but did not test continuity.
@@alhawkins3376 An extension cord would be a good way to test continuity from one box to the next.
You should replace that Federal Pacific Stab Lok panel
Federal pioneer and yes it would be nice to someday transfer the breakers over to the Schneider panel
Did you ever find a broken ground? I'm finding myself in this situation now and not sure where it could be broken. Most outlets on the circuit are ok, except for one. There is a ground wire present and connected. I tried replacing the receptacle but no dice.
Still have to test one switch. I don't really know where they tapped into the line to run this outlet so it's hard to trace it. Frustrating for sure.
Frustrating for sure I did not find it but I also haven’t looked since splicing all the ground conductors together which there’s no reason for them not to be anyways
@@nics-systems-electric thanks for the feedback and the video. I feel like I gained some insight from watching. I'm very much new to all of this and mostly fumbling my way through things but am focussed on setting it up correctly. I am working on an attic remodel and wired 4 new outlets only to find that the wire I'm tapping into has open ground. I can't leave it this way so I either complete my mission and find the open ground or I'm calling the electrician.
I literally think about it the moment I wake up. Lol it's haunting me
@@nics-systems-electricHopefully someone didn’t splice romex into hidden knob&tube work in the wall somewhere!! How old is the house? Could be the same scenario with this DANGEROUS hidden splicing of old BX to modern ROMEX hidden in some wall somewhere!!!
@@dimitriberozny3729 definitely not knob and tube as it was long gone by 1976 it's all loomex the original stuff is probably NMD75
All those grounds should have been tied together in the first place. Inside the gang all grounds should share to keep up on continuity.
Yes often they are but not always are they all together
@nics-systems-electric well finding that when you combined all grounds it solved your issue.
@@johnpetite7331 it did solve this issue though still isn't the best as there is still a open ground somewhere back to the panel on the affected circuit which would be ideal to find
@nics-systems-electric have you found it yet? It's been 2 yrs. Just curious because I have a series of open ground receptacles and I'm about to start tracing it all. Hoping to come across a video that it's been solved without opening up the walls.
@@johnpetite7331 no I haven't found it I haven't looked since. likely The original feed was cut and re-fed but grounds weren't re-spliced to the new feed potentially
If the open ground is on a Gfci then is not nessary to fix it but is recommended
No it's not on a GFCI that's not a proper way to fix the problem you should do it right and have the equipment ground
@@nics-systems-electric but Nec code says replace a 2 prong with a 3 prong Gfci is within code but this senerio the outlets lost their ground somehow and you had to fix it
I am dealing with this same problem
What model of tester are you using
Fluke T6-1000
Also at the box I know u learn a lot in class and what not don’t start moving wires arround like that in the box forst put ur meter on it and one by one check all connections even the bare wire that is screwed down onto the neutral bar ground bar and breaker they can sometimes ark and and burn away making it not contact but if u check the screw head it will show voltage
ugh, FPE
Believe it or not, FPE is not seen as an issue in Canada. In fact they still made them up into the 21st century.
They’re garbage
When will you do system Test 2?
I don’t know maybe next year since I haven’t changed anything
@@nics-systems-electric ok
No way would your service panels, covered by another lift off panel would be legal in Indiana. Plus you don't have a 3' x 3' work area in front of your panels. WTH kind of set up is this?
I see it all the time it doesn’t really affect your work area as you’re still standing right in front of it
Code changes over time. What looks non compliant today may have been perfectly acceptable when it was originally installed.
@@JeanPierreWhitePlus, he lives in Canada.
Have you ever been got shocked?
Yes lots
@@nics-systems-electric I'd be careful touching metal plates, ground wires, and other things you assume are not hot, because they can be mis-wired or shorted to be hot. Gloves and a non-contact tester can increase your margin of safety.
I cringed every time you yanked your tester out of a socket by the cord....with no strain relief...not that you should need one! Usually this is what NOT to do!
Dude, buy a cordless drill.
I've got them multiple of them
@@nics-systems-electric why do you spend so much time with a screwdriver?
Well we're at it. They also make extensions for those vacuum cleaners so you don't have to crawl around on the floor. So much. Like they used to say to the kids when we were out surfing and they were getting in our way on their boogie boards. "Be a man. Learn to stand"
Dude that didn't make no sense you found there was an open ground and you didn't fix it come on now You're not a sparky
There is no longer an open ground👍