I had a focal dystonia and got rid of it by myself. It took four years of hellish determination, mental and physical, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I therefore applaud anybody such as this lady who is making an effort to prevent pianists acquiring injuries in the first place. My only reservation is that she seems to regard piano playing solely as a financially oriented, athletic, competitive pursuit, like a tennis tournament, with the pinnacle of playing being the classical concert. I have three objections to this: firstly that there are those among us for whom piano music and indeed, all art, has nothing whatever to do with money or competition.; secondly that such competitive, neurotic desire to excel, to achieve, to win, is probably a root cause of these injuries; thirdly that there are also those among us who do not consider classical idioms particularly special in the world of piano music anyway.
I'm a beginning piano student and have some wrist pain. However I also drive a truck for work. I think that this video is innovative and informative. And I am a firm believer in a standardized method of teaching piano. There are way to many ill qualified teachers out there who have no idea on delivery methods. And do not give the prerequisites in injury prevention to beginning students. Piano has been around for many hundreds of years. And I always wonder why this has never been standardized. Even with the plethora of different methods available today.
Looks like some jobs and activities are no very good to combine with piani playing. A year ago, when I started learning piano, I was driving a van and carrying rather heave boxes etc. in my hands for work, and after that played piano at home for 2-3 hours. And I felt my hands recieved too much strain.
May be something was wrong with my teechnique of weights lifting)) You know, all these boxes, bags and other stuff is not like bars and dumbbells in a gym. Some things have such a shape that just cannot be comfortably taken, and the strain is put on your rists or fingers. May be this ia why tendonitis is wide spread among loaders, but I've never heard of tendonitis among bodybuilders (they have problems with shoulders, elbows, spinal cords, but never with the wrists).
No one is immune to repetitive strain injury. Even Lang Lang has been laid low and Rachmaninov was also known to have had problems. Unfortunately even great technique can only minimise the probability of injury. Everyone has different physiology and propensity to injury leaving aside the possibility of disease. Once technique is addressed only sensible choice of repertoire and ample rest will help.
I love this so much even if Barbara doesn’t outline other approaches, this is just an introduction to the fact that pianists can get injured from playing and how common it has become. On the Lister-Sink institute website technique is explained in more depth through the FAQs section 😊 ❤️
I'm studying piano in Austria and I get educated about physiology/ injury prevention and other things she said very well! I don't know what's going on in America...
Emil there is the Taubman approach that’s still really active in preventing injuries and technical retraining😊 the Golandsky institute run courses and workshops every July and extracts are streamed online. There are efforts being taken to develop understanding and raise awareness, but change is still slow ...
@@Lukas-gz2vx I'm not sure if I can do that, also because it's already 3 years ago that I got tought this stuff... for me what helps the most is doing weight training
Frau Dr. Lister isn't speaking specifically about the United States nor are the studies she cites primarily American. It is excellent to hear you education is also a healthful one.
I would be willing to bet that women are injured more often due to their smaller hand size. The piano's keyboard is simply too large for small handed people. When you try to play standard literature with smaller hand, you're setting yourself up for injury.
Quick question. I'm a female and my hands are small, but I have long fingers so I can reach middle c and high c. I can't reach beyond octaves though of course. Is my risk for injury lowered because of this?
The thing is even if you do own a piano for smaller hands, you still can't bring it around with you. When you perform or play at a different place you're going to have to play on a standard piano again.
@@banana982 For concert grand pianos, having alternative sized keyboard actions and having them switched around is very easy! And having another sized keyboard action is just a fraction of the cost of another piano. It is easily doable. Switching the action of a grand piano can be done by only one person.
not that easy, first of all most teachers AREN'T trained at how to prevent injuries and there is no "standard" method in teaching piano when it comes to avoiding injuries. People like Dorothy Taubman are the exeption not the rule.
I question if it is correct to define focal dystonia as a repetitive strain injury. People who have focal dystonia have something go wrong with the basal ganglia of the brain. Most claims made about focal dystonia is conjecture.
4 wrong notes in Chopin Ballade... it is crazy (and i played piano too)...... This is unhealthy. Great pianists (like Richter) made ton of wrong notes at bad nights... If we read biography of Liszt Chopin, they are not error-free themselves. It is merely creating freak of modern virtuosity... Also another remark, the size of Keyboard is wrong. I know there were smaller keyboard (something like 3/4 violin etc).... offhand, i cannot recall one of the international pianist, he used a smaller keyboard, when an octave is like a 7th of a regular keyboard. It is a curse that the important soprano-voice and bass-voice is handled by little fingers of RH and LH, and each time we tried to voice the top notes and bass harmony, we hurt the little fingers. Why must keyboard be straight? the Highest notes and Lowest notes are made 'further' if the keyboard is a curve, it will help.
While the instrument is demanding, it is our playing itself, not the piano, that causes discomfort. The figure skater best not blame the skates they wear for any discomfort they may feel. The piano is designed in such a way that allows unbelievably powerful and comfortable playing, and it is the pianist's striving for comfortable playing which shall bring the piano's incredible design to full use. Truly if we want to imagine the piano being unfair, I can only see that being the case with the keys upside-down, where every time you had to play you had to use upwards force to play a note. However this is how some pianists play at the piano. Every chord is a shock upwards into their arms because simply they are using their muscles incorrectly. So there are no curses, and please look at the piano as not the cause of pianist's suffering, but the institution and demands that you mentioned.
Chopin championed the pleyel piano which has somewhat of a smaller keyboard, unfortunately pleyel factories shut down a couple of years ago 😑 I've personally (thankfully) have relatively large hands, here's hoping I don't wind up destroying my greatest passion 😂😧
i suspect excessive practicing, some very very specific passages of certain stupidly high level pieces that involve excessive hand and finger stretching and contracting, and just freak genetic differences account for most if not all of these injuries
This video is a merely an introduction to Lister-Sink's work. If you are suffering from a playing-related injury, you should first consult a medical professional. In the meantime, order Lister-Sink's DVD "Freeing the Caged Bird." Try to find a certified Lister-Sink Method instructor in your vicinity.
She also has a playlist for injury preventive techniques on UA-cam. Just look up injury preventive piano techniques and her videos will be one of the first things to pop up.
I had a focal dystonia and got rid of it by myself. It took four years of hellish determination, mental and physical, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I therefore applaud anybody such as this lady who is making an effort to prevent pianists acquiring injuries in the first place. My only reservation is that she seems to regard piano playing solely as a financially oriented, athletic, competitive pursuit, like a tennis tournament, with the pinnacle of playing being the classical concert. I have three objections to this: firstly that there are those among us for whom piano music and indeed, all art, has nothing whatever to do with money or competition.; secondly that such competitive, neurotic desire to excel, to achieve, to win, is probably a root cause of these injuries; thirdly that there are also those among us who do not consider classical idioms particularly special in the world of piano music anyway.
For everyone to know: she has a playlist on the techniques she talks about on UA-cam. Just look up injury preventive piano techniques.
Unfortunately I don't have that
I realize it's kind of off topic but does anyone know of a good website to watch new series online?
@Titan Eden try Flixportal. You can find it by googling =)
@Jase Titan Thanks, signed up and it seems like a nice service :D I appreciate it !!
@Titan Eden Happy to help :D
I'm a beginning piano student and have some wrist pain. However I also drive a truck for work. I think that this video is innovative and informative. And I am a firm believer in a standardized method of teaching piano. There are way to many ill qualified teachers out there who have no idea on delivery methods. And do not give the prerequisites in injury prevention to beginning students. Piano has been around for many hundreds of years. And I always wonder why this has never been standardized. Even with the plethora of different methods available today.
Looks like some jobs and activities are no very good to combine with piani playing. A year ago, when I started learning piano, I was driving a van and carrying rather heave boxes etc. in my hands for work, and after that played piano at home for 2-3 hours. And I felt my hands recieved too much strain.
May be something was wrong with my teechnique of weights lifting)) You know, all these boxes, bags and other stuff is not like bars and dumbbells in a gym. Some things have such a shape that just cannot be comfortably taken, and the strain is put on your rists or fingers. May be this ia why tendonitis is wide spread among loaders, but I've never heard of tendonitis among bodybuilders (they have problems with shoulders, elbows, spinal cords, but never with the wrists).
Piano has been around for about 300 years, but the heavy action of the modern piano has only been around since the mid-19th century.
No one is immune to repetitive strain injury. Even Lang Lang has been laid low and Rachmaninov was also known to have had problems. Unfortunately even great technique can only minimise the probability of injury. Everyone has different physiology and propensity to injury leaving aside the possibility of disease. Once technique is addressed only sensible choice of repertoire and ample rest will help.
@Phi6er Jean-Marc Luisada comes to mind. Incredible tone, but technique that can't possibly be healthy...
I love this so much even if Barbara doesn’t outline other approaches, this is just an introduction to the fact that pianists can get injured from playing and how common it has become. On the Lister-Sink institute website technique is explained in more depth through the FAQs section 😊 ❤️
Perfect
Never heard before such holy words! Best wishes and kind regards :)
I'm studying piano in Austria and I get educated about physiology/ injury prevention and other things she said very well! I don't know what's going on in America...
Emil there is the Taubman approach that’s still really active in preventing injuries and technical retraining😊 the Golandsky institute run courses and workshops every July and extracts are streamed online. There are efforts being taken to develop understanding and raise awareness, but change is still slow ...
hey can you teach me some stuff
@@Lukas-gz2vx I'm not sure if I can do that, also because it's already 3 years ago that I got tought this stuff... for me what helps the most is doing weight training
Very few teachers worldwide know how to teach technique and injury prevention. They simply don't know how.
Frau Dr. Lister isn't speaking specifically about the United States nor are the studies she cites primarily American. It is excellent to hear you education is also a healthful one.
I would be willing to bet that women are injured more often due to their smaller hand size. The piano's keyboard is simply too large for small handed people. When you try to play standard literature with smaller hand, you're setting yourself up for injury.
What is small hands? to you.
Quick question. I'm a female and my hands are small, but I have long fingers so I can reach middle c and high c. I can't reach beyond octaves though of course. Is my risk for injury lowered because of this?
DelusionaryKiller oh well thank you for replying.
The thing is even if you do own a piano for smaller hands, you still can't bring it around with you. When you perform or play at a different place you're going to have to play on a standard piano again.
@@banana982 For concert grand pianos, having alternative sized keyboard actions and having them switched around is very easy! And having another sized keyboard action is just a fraction of the cost of another piano. It is easily doable. Switching the action of a grand piano can be done by only one person.
It would be easier to just find the most common causes of injury and have teachers be able to identify and caution their students against it.
not that easy, first of all most teachers AREN'T trained at how to prevent injuries and there is no "standard" method in teaching piano when it comes to avoiding injuries. People like Dorothy Taubman are the exeption not the rule.
Creating such a standard would be much easier than the proposal the woman gave.
I question if it is correct to define focal dystonia as a repetitive strain injury. People who have focal dystonia have something go wrong with the basal ganglia of the brain. Most claims made about focal dystonia is conjecture.
4 wrong notes in Chopin Ballade... it is crazy (and i played piano too)...... This is unhealthy. Great pianists (like Richter) made ton of wrong notes at bad nights...
If we read biography of Liszt Chopin, they are not error-free themselves. It is merely creating freak of modern virtuosity...
Also another remark, the size of Keyboard is wrong. I know there were smaller keyboard (something like 3/4 violin etc).... offhand, i cannot recall one of the international pianist, he used a smaller keyboard, when an octave is like a 7th of a regular keyboard.
It is a curse that the important soprano-voice and bass-voice is handled by little fingers of RH and LH, and each time we tried to voice the top notes and bass harmony, we hurt the little fingers.
Why must keyboard be straight? the Highest notes and Lowest notes are made 'further' if the keyboard is a curve, it will help.
While the instrument is demanding, it is our playing itself, not the piano, that causes discomfort. The figure skater best not blame the skates they wear for any discomfort they may feel. The piano is designed in such a way that allows unbelievably powerful and comfortable playing, and it is the pianist's striving for comfortable playing which shall bring the piano's incredible design to full use.
Truly if we want to imagine the piano being unfair, I can only see that being the case with the keys upside-down, where every time you had to play you had to use upwards force to play a note. However this is how some pianists play at the piano. Every chord is a shock upwards into their arms because simply they are using their muscles incorrectly.
So there are no curses, and please look at the piano as not the cause of pianist's suffering, but the institution and demands that you mentioned.
Chopin championed the pleyel piano which has somewhat of a smaller keyboard, unfortunately pleyel factories shut down a couple of years ago 😑 I've personally (thankfully) have relatively large hands, here's hoping I don't wind up destroying my greatest passion 😂😧
i suspect excessive practicing, some very very specific passages of certain stupidly high level pieces that involve excessive hand and finger stretching and contracting, and just freak genetic differences account for most if not all of these injuries
There is no such thing as excessive practising if you do it correctly. With good technique you can practise 10 hours a day without problems.
@@Marsmallos there is, it is like overwork. There is no correct technique, just better or safer. It can still occur.
❤️
trying figure out why some players do exagerated hand gestures, this looks more resonable
suffering of golf.and tennis arm since 5 month on both arms. expected this video to help me. unfortunately it didn't :( (not criticizing it)
This video is a merely an introduction to Lister-Sink's work. If you are suffering from a playing-related injury, you should first consult a medical professional. In the meantime, order Lister-Sink's DVD "Freeing the Caged Bird." Try to find a certified Lister-Sink Method instructor in your vicinity.
She also has a playlist for injury preventive techniques on UA-cam. Just look up injury preventive piano techniques and her videos will be one of the first things to pop up.