Yay a new video. You guys haven’t done one on all your yellow ochres yet right? It made me put in an order for some earth reds and earth greens, to watch your videos.
shouldn't the rule be "you shouldn't apply lean over fat" rather than "you must apply fat over lean", in other words if all the layers are just as fat, then there shouldn't be a problem right? or am I wrong here?
The expression is not to be taken too literal as its a bit incomplete when done so. But if you are asking about just using paint with the same pigment to oil ratio, i.e paint with no added medium then yes, you won't run into any problems whatsoever, as the paint that you are currently using will always begin oxidizing first before any that's still wet inside their tube. Individual drying times for pigments then take a higher precedence in my experience, a slow drying cadmium or lithopone underneath a burnt umber layer would lead to cracking and problems in the long run.
@imambaybars3405 You should not apply "lean over fat" is correct. This happens when you apply a thin and fast-drying layer over a thicker and slower-drying layer. On the other hand, if all layers are at or near that color's critical pigment volume concentration (cPVC), such as paint straight out of the tube, then you have an ideal paint structure. However, this is difficult to accomplish practically in indirect painting. @winternitz_ is correct. The drying times of each pigment must be taken into consideration. In another video, we will discuss more of these issues.
Does working in successively thicker Larry’s help with fat over lean too? And does the use of alkyds help the upper layers stay flexible even though they dry quickly? If you used it in all layers would that work? I know you don’t like alkyds, why is that? I have switched to Oleo Gel in the studio, but still use Gamblin’s Solvent free gel when working plain air to help it dry quicker. I have your Epoxide gel and oil, but the smell is really strong and it sets off alarm bells in my head like it’s toxic or something. Is it? I don’t use OMS because it started giving me headaches. I use Eco Solve from Natural Earth Paints. It’s plant based and no odor. The lighting, detail and background in this video is really professional looking. You must have upgraded your set up; looks good guys! Oh, and what am I supposed to do with Barite white? I bought it as a transparent white, but it is so gloopy I can’t really use it. What is its intention? Just curious. Thanks so much.
Applying thicker layers does not necessarily help toward fat over lean, but it does indirectly because thicker layers are slower drying. Using alkyds that are faster drying in the upper layers is problematic because alkyds tend to be (although not always) faster drying. You can use alkyds in all layers, but be certain each layer is "hard dry" before applying the next layer. There are no toxic ingredients in Epoxide Oil or Epoxide Oil Gel. It is solvent-free. BTW, turpentine is also plant-based, so this is an unremarkable claim. Any solvent, whether from plants or petroleum (which is also plant-based), is toxic.
Surely if one uses a 2:1 (turpentine : oil) ratio in the first layer and the 1:1 in the second, they need to take the amount of medium they use into consideration as well. If they use less of the fatter one in the second layer or a lot more of the less fat in the first, that will also matter. If one paints straight out of tube without mediums, which makes the oil content the same in consecutive layers (with the bottom ones dry before applying next) that is also a correct way to paint.
Oil paint is dry pigments in a little oil. When we add oil, the paint goes fatter. We don't want it that fat in the beginning, and that is the reason why we use the turpentine.
'Focus on gradually increasing the oil content in each successive layer, whether that's using more medium or using paint with a higher oil content.' Can you give us an example of this last bit? I heard different pigments require absorbing higher amounts of oil to turn into paint, like Prussian blue. But I understood drying time would take precedence over this property. A layer of Prussian blue on top of a layer of cadmium red could still lead to problems long term as however 'fat' and flexible the Prussian is blue once dry compared to the cadmium red, the cadmium takes longer to dry and therefore keeps fluctuating underneath. Thanks for the video!! Your content is the best out on this topic.
Oil absorption rate of pigments actually plays a minor role in fat over lean. It is more about the pigment volume concentration (PVC) of the paint. We will discuss this topic in a future video. For now, you can refer to the links in the description for more information.
@ Thanks!! This is what I thought, there's some big paint manufacturers out there spreading a ton of misinformation and treating it like dogma, such as the example I gave above. I'm a big believer of your cPVC analogy of the brick wall in explaining this topic, thanks for sharing all this knowledge!
I wonder if AI can be used to analyze a painting to give advise on pigments and color mixing? Thanks for sharing, I use turpentine rarely generally I paint alla prima and use paint of the tube and Lukas with beeswax in the paint. ❤❤❤
Yay a new video. You guys haven’t done one on all your yellow ochres yet right? It made me put in an order for some earth reds and earth greens, to watch your videos.
We haven't done a video on yellow ochres yet! But we do have one on the most popular range of yellow ochres.
@@RublevColours Them ochres smell like candy 😛
shouldn't the rule be "you shouldn't apply lean over fat" rather than "you must apply fat over lean", in other words if all the layers are just as fat, then there shouldn't be a problem right? or am I wrong here?
The expression is not to be taken too literal as its a bit incomplete when done so. But if you are asking about just using paint with the same pigment to oil ratio, i.e paint with no added medium then yes, you won't run into any problems whatsoever, as the paint that you are currently using will always begin oxidizing first before any that's still wet inside their tube. Individual drying times for pigments then take a higher precedence in my experience, a slow drying cadmium or lithopone underneath a burnt umber layer would lead to cracking and problems in the long run.
@imambaybars3405 You should not apply "lean over fat" is correct. This happens when you apply a thin and fast-drying layer over a thicker and slower-drying layer. On the other hand, if all layers are at or near that color's critical pigment volume concentration (cPVC), such as paint straight out of the tube, then you have an ideal paint structure. However, this is difficult to accomplish practically in indirect painting.
@winternitz_ is correct. The drying times of each pigment must be taken into consideration. In another video, we will discuss more of these issues.
What happens if I use odorless thinner instead of turpentine?
Does working in successively thicker Larry’s help with fat over lean too? And does the use of alkyds help the upper layers stay flexible even though they dry quickly? If you used it in all layers would that work? I know you don’t like alkyds, why is that? I have switched to Oleo Gel in the studio, but still use Gamblin’s Solvent free gel when working plain air to help it dry quicker. I have your Epoxide gel and oil, but the smell is really strong and it sets off alarm bells in my head like it’s toxic or something. Is it? I don’t use OMS because it started giving me headaches. I use Eco Solve from Natural Earth Paints. It’s plant based and no odor. The lighting, detail and background in this video is really professional looking. You must have upgraded your set up; looks good guys! Oh, and what am I supposed to do with Barite white? I bought it as a transparent white, but it is so gloopy I can’t really use it. What is its intention? Just curious. Thanks so much.
Applying thicker layers does not necessarily help toward fat over lean, but it does indirectly because thicker layers are slower drying. Using alkyds that are faster drying in the upper layers is problematic because alkyds tend to be (although not always) faster drying. You can use alkyds in all layers, but be certain each layer is "hard dry" before applying the next layer. There are no toxic ingredients in Epoxide Oil or Epoxide Oil Gel. It is solvent-free. BTW, turpentine is also plant-based, so this is an unremarkable claim. Any solvent, whether from plants or petroleum (which is also plant-based), is toxic.
Surely if one uses a 2:1 (turpentine : oil) ratio in the first layer and the 1:1 in the second, they need to take the amount of medium they use into consideration as well. If they use less of the fatter one in the second layer or a lot more of the less fat in the first, that will also matter.
If one paints straight out of tube without mediums, which makes the oil content the same in consecutive layers (with the bottom ones dry before applying next) that is also a correct way to paint.
Oil paint is dry pigments in a little oil. When we add oil, the paint goes fatter. We don't want it that fat in the beginning, and that is the reason why we use the turpentine.
'Focus on gradually increasing the oil content in each successive layer, whether that's using more medium or using paint with a higher oil content.'
Can you give us an example of this last bit? I heard different pigments require absorbing higher amounts of oil to turn into paint, like Prussian blue. But I understood drying time would take precedence over this property. A layer of Prussian blue on top of a layer of cadmium red could still lead to problems long term as however 'fat' and flexible the Prussian is blue once dry compared to the cadmium red, the cadmium takes longer to dry and therefore keeps fluctuating underneath. Thanks for the video!! Your content is the best out on this topic.
Oil absorption rate of pigments actually plays a minor role in fat over lean. It is more about the pigment volume concentration (PVC) of the paint. We will discuss this topic in a future video. For now, you can refer to the links in the description for more information.
@ Thanks!! This is what I thought, there's some big paint manufacturers out there spreading a ton of misinformation and treating it like dogma, such as the example I gave above. I'm a big believer of your cPVC analogy of the brick wall in explaining this topic, thanks for sharing all this knowledge!
I wonder if AI can be used to analyze a painting to give advise on pigments and color mixing?
Thanks for sharing, I use turpentine rarely generally I paint alla prima and use paint of the tube and Lukas with beeswax in the paint.
❤❤❤
that doesnt sound quite right to me, but i'll take your word on it.
I understand what you are saying, but it's not clear how to apply this practically in the studio
Oh and anything I can add to avoid sinking in? I oil out every once in a while, but that is not really a great solution
We cover that in a video lesson on Painting Best Practices: paintingbestpractices.com/courses/matte-glossy-paint/