Persona Protagonists Argue about Power Scaling
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Isn't Makoto the only one out of the three, who can summon multiple personas at the same time, and cast fusion spells like armageddon
Okay but Yu and his team can dance a god to death
@@RemisterReal Persona 4 dancing ? or i dunno what you mean
Yes he is actually the only one who is capable of that ability
Yes
Yeah, is due to having you know what. He´s the wizard between the MCs.
Makoto also canonically beats Elizabeth in a 1v1. Yu has the option of bringing 3 friends, whilst Ren gets to use his entire team in the battles with the twins and Lavenza since he can swap party members out.
well in P4AU he fought Elizabeth and won(technically as She surrender but not that she actually defeated by force but sheer will and the power of the Social link)
Because Margaret is canonically stronger than Elizabeth.
Yu can solo Margareth if he wants to
Ren can solo both Twins and Lavenza if he tries really hard
He can solo them if he tries really hard, and let's not forget, as the Twins say, "We will also allow your friends to participate in this as they can be considered part of your power, though they will not remember as this is ultimately for you"
Imagine having 3 other party members on the field max
No Joker just brings the whole squad up to beat you up and Makoto gets Armageddon possibilities with Forget, combo'd into a 100% chance to Knock Down upon Ryuji's Ziodyne
@@kirbyfreakyt4695 I mean,solo vs full party aint exactly fair :D
Only now am I realizing there on a zoom call together
Coming from P3 reload and getting this video recommended. P3 Protagonist is actually the strongest because he is the only one who has ever received the Universe arcana so far.
What is this? I only know world arcana.
@@Ilia_Salnicov It's from a different interpretation of a Tarot deck. World is from Rider-Waite Tarot and Universe is its equivalent from the Thoth Deck. Based on the way Igor talks about it, it's more amazing than the world as its reality bending level of power.
well izanagi no okami with miriad truth tear everything into powder
0:27 That WHAT was perfect
Multiversal??????
They're all High Outer🗿
I always viewed the P3 cast had the strongest personas, the P4 cast had the most intelligent members (Naoto and Yu doing the heavy lifting there) and P5 were the strongest all around combatives
Uh idk about p3 having the strongest personas especially with p5 and 4 having the access to tier 3 personas
This talk is just funny in hindsight. Why didn't this video appear recommended but the other one did? Anyway, I'm with Makoto on this one. While it's sealing and not destroying, you can't really destroy death. That being said, in terms of starting persona Makoto loses by a landslide. Speaking of, the Dark element is interesting here: Orpheus is weak to it, Izanagi blocks it while Arsene inherits and resist it.
I forgot that ren only killed yaldy because the masses cheered the phantom theives.
From what i know after watching the scene multiple times. Im happy to admit im incorrect
You are correct about being incorrect because every persona protagonist gets power from bonds. If makoto did not have bonds, he would have never gotten universe, and would have died atop Tartarus.
I mean Makoto do be spittin facts
Lets be real makoto winning fr i mean bro has orpheus telos that shit is op and the feats are massive
Minato being the only to obtain the Universe arcana.
The Universe Arcana is representive of one's own peak potential. Makoto reached it because he peaked at Nyx's level. It doesn't make an All-Powerful god that can't be defeated.
Wait, Ren has the World Arcana and the fool, also, the velvet room hated him :v
They really said “Shut up Ringo” to Ren
Not gonna lie Yu can kill a god with a guitar solo.
I just want to point out that Yu and Minato use real weapons bought from a crooked cop and crazy blacksmith. Ren uses toys, it's not gone be a competition in the real world.
The way I see it
Makoto>Tatsuya/Maya>Joker>Yu>Naoya
Tatsuya/Maya= Joker >Yu >Makoto
Tatsuya/Maya>= Naoya>Joker >Yu> Makoto
Out of all the 3 in their order I'd say
It's Door-kun at first
The Chad at second
Then Joker at Third
In terms of power scaling sealing the mother of all shadows (by all shadows meaning every shadow and so called "god" starting from 4 onwards) alone whom is impossible to kill definitely makes Makoto stronger than all of em
I would put Ren above Narukami personally. Imo of the three, he's the weakest and the second weakest Persona MC overall
@@connorharnage6697 The weakest why? Because in Q2 they´re equal and the reasons that people give about Narukami being weak are hilarious. The boy made Elizabeth enter in panic.
@@amarant1275 I don't tend to take Q into account. Not only have I not played them but I also tend to go by the crossover rule set up by Marvel with games like that. I just think Narukami is the weakest of the three simply due to his showings in Ultimax compared to Joker in Strikers. If I remember right, the time frame is fairly similar with both being a few months after the original game so they'd both be equally rusty. In Ultimax, Narukami was struggling against Sho before he got his Persona while Joker in Strikers went toe to toe with Akane's cognitive version of him who I'd assume would be just as if not more powerful than Joker in original Persona 5 due to how the Metaverse works. Plus if we count Royal and say Izanami and Yaldabaoth are on a similar level, Adam Kadmon is stronger than Yaldabaoth so there's that. My logic may be a bit flawed since I'm no one expert on this but that's my interpretation. Still I think Maya and Tatsuya from Persona 2 beat them both and Narukami definitely beats Naoya
@@connorharnage6697 I don´t see Q games pulling a Marvel. It puts the persona users from the same universe together with the only difference of some years and states that when the users are in the same zone they receive the same powers something that makes sense.
You can´t compare the events of Ultimax with Strikers for many reasons.
First: There is no Velvet Room assistance in Ultimax, Yu and Aigis can´t switch personas and can only fight with their initial personas. Lavenza gives support in Strikers.
Second: The enemy´s plan was to weaken the participants of the tournament eroding their personas and their will. The more they fight the weaker they become because a part of their soul is "stolen". Yu realizes that his sword feels heavier after the combats.
Third: Yu has problems facing Sho because Sho has been trained since he was a kid to become a fighting machine while Yu has barely trained one year. Appart of that Sho is possesed by Kagutsuchi and this one has the power of paralize people, he even captured the Shadow Operatives without problems.
Four: TV World and Metaverse doesn´t works in the same way. P3 and P4 are limited to the tournament rules and are fighting persona users one after other instead of shadows like in Strikers.
Even with all that handicaps Yu was able to defeat Sho one vs one, defeated Labrys shadow who is a robot after all, Kagutsuchi and scared Elizabeth who said that she never saw a power like that before. Yu is really tough to achieve all this without help.
We could say that Yu is playing in the hard mode and Joker in the easy mode with all the power ups. If Yu was in the Metaverse with the boost... he probably would be a bulldozer.
The "this boss is stronger than this other" just to measure the MCs power is an absurd method, sorry. They are game mechanics only just like Rise turning Himiko into a king size persona like Satanael in the final of P4D. When MCs are together they are equal the only major difference is that Makoto would be the wizard of the team, Yu the warrior/tank and Joker the rogue affecting to their own stats.
@@amarant1275 Wait for real? I haven't played Dancing either. Rise did that? Also to explain when I made the Marvel comparison, Stan Lee said outright when doing crossovers, he evened everything out to avoid pissing people off. While I doubt Atlus does that, it's just a general rule for me. Persona 4 and 5 fans don't need another thing to war over. Either way, like I said, I'm no one expert on this and the reason I left Adam Kadmon for last is mostly because of the gameplay. Also I thought to plan was to shave off fragments of their personas to make a body for Hino Kagutsuchi. Unless that was also said to be weakening them that I missed which is entirely possible since the arena games use a lot of text in their stories
Yeah Minato Can definitely beat Yu and Akira. Man has the literal Power of the universe. (Yeah I used the manga Names for Makoto and Ren cuz I prefer to call them that. Just my preference.)
Persona wise, Makoto is the strongest. Ren is the strongest physically.
What? Messiah is literally the weakest ultimate Persona in the series lmao I don't give a f that he's Jesus. His feats are trash.
If ANYONE knows what Azathoth is, there is no debate. As someone who’s favourite persona games are in order of P4G, P3FES, P5R, I still believe the defeat of Azathoth is leagues above the defeat of Nyx. Azathoth>Nyx>Izanami, and therefore Ren>Makoto>Yu
Izanami should be on azathoth's level though, she doesn't have reality manipulation but she had enough power to create the entirety of the tv world which is assumedly an entire seperate universe. Nyx is weird because it never gets to do an actual feat besides being unstoppable, and we can't really know makoto's power up to that point because the shadows are also featless. We know nyx has enough power to destroy the earth, and makoto should be at it's level but that's it.
@@mizzix Upon second thought, there are two ways I see you could look at this. From real life origin or from the games themselves. Azathoth created the universe and all reside within his dream. This scales far above Izanami and the demons sent from Yomi, and higher than the God of Night, Nyx, too. In the games, the two gods who seems to have similar abilities are Azathoth, who warps reality to his will (Maruki) and Izanami, with the move Thousand Curses being an obvious reference to the curse that takes 1000 life’s every day. Nyx in persona 3 bears next to no resemblance to the God of Night Nyx in Greek mythology, at least in my opinion. Nyxs mere presence is able to almost wipe all life that existed, so even after looking at the games AND their real life counterparts, I believe I have come to the same conclusion.
Mythology: Azathoth > Izanami > Nyx
Games: Azathoth > Nyx > Izanami
I could potentially see argument that Nyx in the games are stronger than Azathoth, but I feel like this is only due to Maruki being reasonable. If he wanted, joker would have simply never had a chance to begin with. Azathoth would have simply dreamt a reality where joker does forget, which happens in P5Rs bad ending, but with no chance for joker to even begin to form a counterattack.
So due to this, in the games I believe that as my first comment said,
Ren > Makoto > Yu
@@mizzixWell, no.
Creating the TV world is nothing like taking over the whole universe, and then take over an even bigger universe that contains the dreams of all the mortals in the former. It's not just Azathoth's reality warping powers, it's the insane range it reaches.
Azathoth is a persona. Personas come from shadows.Shadows come from nyx. Using the Lovecraft to expain how powerful something is in persona makes no sense.Even if he is powerful even Lovecraft states in some places(ppl still dont know if this is cannon) that their is even more powerful being than Azathoth -Yog-Sothoth but its debatable.
@@varkusor6899 I consider Yog Sothoth below Azathoth. But yeah it’s either him or Azathoth on top.
But amamiya does beat maruki who can literally rewrite the entire existence same as yaldabaoth
Im pretty sure makoto is the only one who can summon a persona of the universe arcana which is just the world but like infinitely better
Makoto doesn't have a persona of the universe arcana, messiah is judgment
@@mizzix No he does he obtained it when he sealed nyx at the end of persona 3, however upon the release with persona 5 royal they made messiah judgement as it would not make sense to give joker an arcana that is more powerful than the world.
Universe = World but at least Yu didnt have to kill himself and actually defeated an entity who embodies Death (Hino Kagutsuchi on Arena Ultimax) all on his own.
Joker >Yu>Makoto
@@jackour8167 It's in the same slot as the world would be on another version of the tarot deck, but it's stronger than The World in terms of Persona lore. The Universe is explicitly stated to be infinite potential which is not how Igor describes The World in either P4 or P5.
Also Makoto has one more arcana which is Death. Igor explicitly states that he has both The Fool and Death.
He can wield more than one Persona at a time via Fusion skills and he has Armageddon. He is straight up stronger than Yu and Joker even without the power of The Universe.
Power wise Makoto is fine, personality wise Makoto is tofu.
Yu being the weakest one
That's a lie ren is but I'm not saying he isn't strong
with no persona narukami's probably decking both of them.
@@ren2089 ren with no persona decks yu, with persona's ren decks yu, with ulitmates yu deck rens, with feats ren decks yu
I might be wrong about this but from what I remember Yu is the only one who hasn’t (provably) been in a physical altercation without a persona.
Makoto beats up 3 guys in Yukaris social link and Ren ofc slapped around Shido (not acting like beating a drunk guy is impressive or anything but it’s still more than I know of for Yu)
Of the 3 games 4 is the one I haven’t played in the longest amount of time so there’s a chance I may have forgotten something 😅
@@thebiggy2014 Yu is still the tallest and is the most robust one though.
makoto definitely strongest literally sealed nyx and lived in his dead husk body for a month on sheer willpower
edit: relax yall lmao don't fight. though i am happy to see so many people agree with me yaass persona 3 hype
Just to keep that promise 😂
And what tells you that the others can´t? Only that they didn´t had the bad luck of facing something that can´t be killed and need to give their lifes to stop it temporaly.
@@amarant1275 They don't have sealing techniques tho
@@devanplays3509 Because they don´t need it in their journey, what they need is a powerful blast to kill the abomination once for all. That is why they got Myriad Truths and Sinful Shell.
Wait didn't Joker come back from the dead too?
And proceeded to live the rest of his life despite being literally erased?
Mans came back from a Thanos snap
Tatsuya: *flicks his lighter*
I mean he shouldn't because he causes everyone to die in a different timeline.
But he did beat twice the personification of humanity evil. Seriously he came back three times.
Real
Tatsuya is weaker than p3 but still stronger than joker, naoya, and yu from my understanding
@@matchaifiedbruh
@@Friedspaghetti The P3 protagonist is basically god with Messiah
I'm waiting for "Persona protagonists arguing about their canon names"
It’s makoto yuki(p3), yu narukami(p4), and ren amamiya(p5). Although their other names are minato arisato,souji seta, and akira (akira akira AGGHHHHHH)kurusu respectively.
Late but the canon names have been confirmed in all three games by the language selection. Its Makoto, Yu, and Ren. The other names were retconned
We need more Tatsuya and Naoya
Edit: including Maya too
I hard agree!
Do we even have ai voices for them?
@@ThiccFurryBoi34 if you already watched his previous videos, then yeah
@@kurxsai oh cool yay
And technically Tamaki, but then she was more of a COMP user than a Persona user
The limitless power of friendship is the same for them, we have seen it in Q when they are together not in different games with different mechanics, etc. I only would say that Makoto is the wizard, Yu the warrior/tank and Joker the rogue. That is the real difference between them.
Physically Yu wins, he´s the tallest and buffest (just check their stats in Q), Joker is the fastest and Makoto is the magic skilled. Each one do his own thing.
Door-kun is hands-down the strongest and it's not even comparable. Not to diminish the accomplishments of the other protags, but the opponent of P3 can simply wipe out all life on earth and cannot be defeated, so he does the next best thing the moment he was able, and without a moment's hesitation. A true messiah.
Comparably, the threats of P4 and P5 are relatively more scalable... though I believe that there are fates worse than death, and are thus more threatening in a sense, in a way which would twist your life around in a sadistic way.
The themes of each game determine how the protag fights, but Door-kun makes the most sense for the question.
there is literally no achievement that really proves that nyx is more powerful than the other Bosses of persona the only thing that maybe proves that would be their possible titles and the ability to destroy all life on earth and nothing else manu Others suadows can achieve the same feat even shadows as Mada can swallow universes and nyx being an entity that dwells in the depths of the collective unconscious puts it on par in strength or inferior to Yaldabaoth who is the core of the collective unconscious it could rewrite the cognition of the entire world indeed done it Joker is easily the most powerful that not counting Royal because then he is even more powerful
@@arthurbulhoes2702 It's also stated that maruki is stronger than yaldabaoth
@@devanplays3509 Because Maruki is stronger he has all Yaldabaoth Powers and many Others and Joker is stronger than Yaldabaoth by the End of P5R
@Arthur Bulhões Do you think joker by himself is stronger than lavenza?
@@devanplays3509 possibly i Mean Yaldabaoth defeated and sealed Igor as well as splitting lavenza in two so Joker in P5R is probably stronger than her
I mean technically Yu and the Investigation team have like fought multiple gods almost back to back. While not Nyx level exactly it is still a impressive track record. Phantoms theives fought like two more in their exclusive side materials. With the SEES fighting Erebus after Nyx. It get complicated as the rest are co kills due to the crossovers
to be honest i feel that the boss in P5 is just yaldabaoth in different accounts
Yu fought a God.
The Thieves fought fake gods.
@@mhicorivera7802 How Yaldabaoth did log through Maruki acc tho ?
@@skell6134 i said feel and not actual Yaldabaoth as all of the boss trying to control humanity in the same way with different reasons
@@mhicorivera7802 My question is still valid :D
i think anyone who isn’t a P5 smoothbrain would agree that Yuki is the strongest
As a persona 5 fan I agree with you.
I like Persona 3 and all, but Makoto did have to die to seal himself away to beat Nyx. At most that’s low multiverse since Nyx is multiverse level. There’s definitely an argument he isn’t the strongest since Joker shot a god similar to Nyx in the head with a huge ass Persona. And him actually just using a gun to shoot a god of reality manipulation that scales to Outerverse levels once with a regular gun and win.
I know how strong Makoto Yuki is but his biggest feat is The Seal since that’s his most powerful move he can use in his game which isn’t that impressive compared to shooting a Outerverse god with a regular gun once and then winning.
@@pikafanone yaldabaoth, demiurge and Adam kadmon are false gods not actual ones
I think Tatsuya can end the universe if he reminds his friends that he exists. He's also probably still kicking around in p5 somewhere. He's probably like a 40 year old man at this point.
I think anyone with a functional brain will see Lakoto Luki for the fodder he is.
I'd say the ranking goes
(Base Form)
Makoto > Ren > Yu
I say this because of Ren and Makoto's physical prowess on top of the wild card. Makoto has the edge because he's the only one with formal combat training.
(Ultimate Personas)
Makoto > Yu > Ren
Simply put, Great Seal and Myriad Truths go beyond physical concepts, whereas Sinful Shell is just BIG GUN. As for the comparison between Makoto and Yu, it comes down to the power of infinite truth vs the power to neutralize anything. The way I see it, Nyx is the ultimate truth, everything will eventually end, but the Great Seal neutralizes her and thus every other possible truth.
I like this
@@darksphere9933 same but I think he forgot about maruki fight at the end of persona 5 royal
I think Ren or Yu in Makoto's position could seal Nyx with the power of their friends believing in them, and they would get the Universe arcana all the same. I also think that Myriad Truths and Sinful Shell would do some amount of damage to Nyx, just not enough to stop them. (Like they would in cutscene run out of SP before they could defeat Nyx)
All of that aside, I think Joker is the best base form fighter with agility alone. Even if that power just comes from the metaverse, Joker can dash, flip, jump, and dodge a lot swifter than the other two have shown. Yu's movement in Arena is more impressive then what we have seen in any other material featuring him, but I still see Joker Down Shot'ing him just to follow up with the slashes he does in Strikers to overwhelm him. Makoto has the disadvantage of not having material showing him doing anything of the sort.
It really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, they're going to be similar in power in whatever they are featured in together.
@@rotothedragonlord7198 Maybe, but that's a hypothetical circumstances, Makoto to my knowledge, is the only person who holds the universe arcana that is used to keep erebus from nyx. If Yu and Ren was P3's protagonist, than maybe they'll get it, but for now, Makoto > Yu > Ren.
Also, Ren beating Makoto and Yui in P5 is a game mechanic, so that shouldn't be use for scaling. That's like saying a Saibaman is enough to beat beerus because it won a match in DBZ Fighterz
Isn't sinful shell a bullet of all seven sins combine not the gun the gun belong to sataneal it could be compared to myriad truth and it needs the weapon by your logic the myriad truth is spinning the sword multiple times where both breaks the rule of the universe
yu: izanagi no okami megidol...
ren: izanagi no okami myriad truths!!
yu: ...
Makoto: Great seal !!
*Effin dies*
1:58 Yu getting a choppy throat here just makes this even funnier
Door-kun is the strongest as far as I know. He's the only one to get the universe arcana and even Igor admitted to not fully understanding its full power. As for Yu and Joker... I don't know. I think they are about evenly matched.
That's the thing, it isn't. The Universe Arcana is just a means to an end, nothing more, nothing less. It doesnt make you omnipotent like Igor implies with his infamous "Nothing is outside the realm of possiblity for you now" nor is Nyx the unbeatable entity everyone thinks she is.
@@jackour8167how isn’t she?The Game Literally repeats to you multiple Times she Can't be Killed and that it’s Death itself. Do pray tell how One is Supposed to get rid of her with anything other than Sealing her away ?
@@jesusmen6308
"She cant be killed"
There's nothing in the game that supports that.
"She's Death"
No, she is not, and the Club Book makes this very clear.
"So tell how to get rid of...."
I dont know, maybe, just, murder her? Seeing as she ISN'T actually death, and that she's just a really strong alien, she's pretty much killable. The only reason they had to seal her is simple, Makoto isn't as strong as the fandom makes him seem to be.
@@jackour8167 "There's Nothing to Support that" They textually Tell you she is Undefeatable in the Game and is actually never Defeated,what more do you want?
"No she’s not"
again,She is Called So in the Game,her True Arcana is Death,Death is the entire Theme Of the Game, and your Argument about Being a Alien is Bad because by definition anything that isn't Native from even your Country is Alien,so that doesn't discredite Nyx one bit. Eldritch Horrors Too get Called Aliens in Most Cases.
"Just Murder her" how? You talk Big Game but There’s Literally Zero allusions in the entire Franchise Nyx is even Possible to defeat,let alone Eliminate and you got Zero Bases as to say Anything Can Defeat her. Izanami?is the Godess of earth or Something yet Didn’t moved a Finger When Nyx Was Gonna Bring the Fall
Yada? What’s his greatest Feat Fusing the collective unconscious with the real world?you mean the Same collective unconsious that was Born as a Defense mechanism For Humanity against Nyx's Mere Presence and that Was utterly Failing when Nyx Was Bringing the Fall?
Yeah nah you just Can’t prove in any way Nyx is even beatable you’re Talking about What's and If's that go nowhere Factual.
@@jesusmen6308
"They say she is unbeatable"
Igor was hyping her up, and Ryoji's words mean nothing as hes her avatar. He'd also hype her up.
"Her true Arcana is death"
That does not make her the embodiment of death. By that logic, the Fiends are the embodiment of death too. And by the way, Nyx is LITERALLY an alien. She's not a god. She literally came from outer space.
"What's Yaldabaoth's best feat...."
Yeah, that same CU was powerful enough to seal her and deem her powerless. THAT'S the CU Yaldabaoth controls, and Maruki even more so. And Philemon and Nyarlathotep as well.
"At her mere presence"
No, it literally made her powerless. She couldn't do a thing.
"Failing when she was bringing the Fall"
The CU didnt fail. It only let go of Nyx because so many people wished for the world to be destroyed. There's nothing about this that implies Nyx broke out of the CU.
On a side note, I like how you're talking like you know what you're saying, when you're really just another Makoto fanboy/girl who creams their pants at the mere sight of him.
Ive often heard Makoto and Tatsuya are the strongest due to their abilities
Tatsuya will wipe the floor with all three of them. Maya's ultimate Persona also reflects all magic type attacks minus Almighty.
Is armageddon not almighty?
@@noob-kun7768 Armageddon and fusion spells are in Persona 2 as well.
@@jarjared3522isnt p3mc has infinity who can repel anything include almighty?
Nah, P3mc is the only one defeated and became someone who wasn't from the human subconscious. Philemon and Nyarloteph is, also Philemon got trapped or something in pq. Death is absolute.
Yu sounds so accurate because though I don't remember much I could 100% he sounds exactly like this video in blazblue.
I just wanna point out how Joker not only uses the most personas(including all versions of theirs) but has beaten their cognitive counterparts in Royal. May not be a 1:1 comparison but his power is certainly up there. Also I kinda wanna see them argue about their favorite food or compare each others schools
That's not canon
Game feature ,also cognitive is not equal to there real strength
If they were pushed against each other in each of their games, the one who is the main character would be stronger. This is not to mention that this fight is not canon in general and is made for fan service.
@@audiocentral6473 I’m pretty sure it’s said the cognitive forms are weaker
Game mechanic shouldn't count as feats, that's the equivalent of saying a Saibaman could beat beerus because a Saibaman had beaten Beerus in Dragon ball Figterz once.
Plus technically, it also means that they are better than Ren since there's also a possibility of you losing in that match.
Basically, Gameplay shouldn't be feats
Agh, poor Ren! Honestly, I see all the protags as equal when it comes to strength, but I guess that’s just me being an unbiased fan, nice video either way! ^^
I mean they're not and there's evidence to prove it but you do you
@@TheTrueYonkoyea what💀
@@babybeen1 there is evidence that puts Makoto over the rest of the protagonists
@@TheTrueYonko What's the evidence?
@@TheTrueYonko i was agreeing with you
P3 REMAKE IS REAL
For everyone saying that joker can use both minato's and narumaki's personas, thus making him stronger than them, let me remind you that all of these are DLC personas, okay? They're not canon to the main lore of p5. Plus, it wouldn't make any sense for him to randomly pull out messiah or izanagi. Like, huh? Those are personas that are exclusive to their summoners, therefore, no one else can use them. The only reason he can use them is because they are cool DLC assets that are fun to use in battle.
Exclusive to their summoners
@fanggyyou Because she inherited Minato's psyche. Multiple factors are at play here. The plume of dusk inside her body, plus her strong affection for the protagonist, coupled with her desire and ability to understand and learn how to become human, means that her wild card isn't just her own unique wild card, but specifically a representation of Minato's psyche.
Picaro version are still canon though, literally lore supporting it.
Again, the whole concept of persona is about humanity's imagination and real life concepts shaping into reality says otherwise.
Even if you don't agree since it's dlc, it's still 50/50 since can't be disproved since ingame lore supporting it.
Until unless Devs themselves say it's not canon, people who don't agree it being canon have no significance
@@hellish958 And where the hell did you even see that they are canon?
@@hellish958 idk what you've been smoking, but unless it's ever officially stated by Atlus or even given a real lore mention as well as a cutscene explaining the DLC personas being canon, your argument about it being 50/50 is a weak statement and is null and void until proven. That's like asking why Makoto can summon Izanagi and Satanael in Reload with no explanations given other than it being added for fan service.
Ehh,pretty sure it counts that all 3 saved the world in the end of day so all are good
Makoto is literally the only one that didn’t beat his own god
Yu beated 2 (ameno - sagiri and izanami)
Ren beated yaldabaoth , god of control maruki , false god demiurge and Samael
yu beat kunino sagiri,ameno sagiri, magatsu izanagi (Adachi), kusumi no okami, izanami no okami, Hi no kagustsuchi, mikuratana no okami....if we count PQ then he also beat God of Time Chronos
I think Yu is strongest, because Izanami and Eye ball god wanted to transform entire humanity into a shadow, and without human desire, Nyx and Two had shadow dog can't exist. Plus I think mother of entire humanity is stronger than death, and yes, I know she died in mythology, but her souls is still alive.
Nyx is the only modern persona boss who isn't born from the human consciousness. The human consciousness was literally developed as a defense to nyx. Nyx in reality is a star eater, a cosmic deity that crashed into the earth and became the moon. Nyx is literally the moon in the sky that was going to crash into earth destroying all life with no human cognitive bs magic needed
Nyx is the one who created humanity
He didn't kill Izanami though. He killed a fragment of Izanami. Marie is Izanami and she's still around.
Izanami is stronger than the cup though because she is one of the founding gods of Japanese mythology.
@24hr-Gaming Wasn't not killing Marie a choice the investigation team made? I didn't get the impression they couldn't kill her, so I wouldn't treat the decision of not doing it to mean they couldn't finish Izanami off.
Makoto > Ren > Yu
Legit Yaldabaoth is much much more powerful then Izanami that I'm surprised people who have played both games for some reason unironically think Yu beats Joker based on those feats alone.
Makoto can use fusion spells which means he can use two persona at the same time. Armageddon uses Helel and Satan
He is just compensating for the fact that he cant directly command his SEES team
@@skell6134he can in p3p
Tatsuya bodies these 3 with ease
Tatsuya laughing in the back
Nope Joker P5R probably could Win against him
@@arthurbulhoes2702 literally no, Joker is weak asf against the classic Persona protagonists
@@dokkanbattleplayer2921 the weakest? Even if in persona 5 Royal Adam Kadmon is stated to be, in the Kabbalah, the goal of that evolution. More specifically, he is the primeval ideal of a "human," towards which all people should strive. And while fully dominating Maruki, Adam Kadmon himself describes his power as being "the source, and the destination," congruent with Edogawa stating that the Kabbalistic Tree of Life is the answer for both the origin and future of humanity and existence. One of his attacks is even named "Origin Light" as a direct reference to that. And all the way back in Persona 2, Philemon had already placed heavy emphasis on the potential of humanity, with him describing that endgoal as a state where all human souls evolve into something "perfect" and "whole," with all of the human nature's inherent contradictions resolve, alongside its inner conflict (Represented by Philemon himself, and his double, Nyarlathotep)
@@arthurbulhoes2702 Yeah but Hitler man
Ultimately anyone is gonna say what protagonist they like the best (even though joker has the most impressive accomplishments and toughest enemies faced)
Ofc they talk shit while Tatsuya is not there
who?
Persona 2 and 1 are share universe while 3,4,5
@@idolngmgapogi572 wouldn't the universe be like this?.
Persona 1 > persona 2 is (got destroyed)
New time line
Persona 1-> persona 2 EP -> persona 3-> persona 4-> p5.
We know characters from 2 like Katsuya exist in persona 5 since he appears on A TV show alongside chie and Akihiko.
When Makoto was talking about her Izanami was a force to be reckoned with I could practically envision the handshake from predator between Yu and Makoto
funny thing is that Ren IS the weakest protagonist and Door-kun is just below Tatsu in terms of protags
Uhh..... No.
Makoto right next to Tatsuya is a..... Very odd comparsion to say the least. One had to risk it all just fighting the Death Goddess, who's still bound by humanity's cogniton, and the other defeated a guy that embodies and transcends human thoughts. Sure, the latter had help, but when you take into account the massive power difference, it frankly doesnt matter.
@@jackour8167 Also Tatsuya did it *twice*
True Makoto is stronger than Ren he is also more classy and stylish! No offence but Ren kinda tries too hard to pull off the bad boy vibe! Makoto is just natural!
Snapping your finger to seal NYX is crazy
He then died. Guess who did not die? YU AND REN
@@midnite59 a month later to keep a promise to something that was unbeatable credit where credit is due yu technically beat multiple gods but they were defeatable
@@Sam-oo9en Then Erebus almost broke it if it wasn’t for the rest of sees.
@@midnite59 erebus is defeatable but comes he comes back because of human desire and despair
1:58 sexy voice is back, remember my old comment?
Lets get serious, first we have to see 2 different aspects, their feats and their personas/arcanas.
**Feats:*
Given that Makoto has military grade training and gear he's an absolute beast in combat, but we have to remember that Ren has a vast deck of skills, including knowledge, training and experience in the use of firearms and melee weapons, extensive knowledge in the use and creation of explosives and other gadgets, high athletic ability and considering that Royal is canon, Ren also has a very good gymnastics training (thanks to sumire).
Even though Makoto had a better training Ren has many more skills, so I think Ren and Makoto would be very tight in a fight.
And finally Yu definetly is the weakest since he's only a very athletic guy and skilled in the use of swords (don't get me wrong, Yu is clearly above average).
**Persona/arcana:*
Makoto definetly wins this, since he was able to seal nyx, even though I think Yu's persona is much more strong his persona's strongest skill is Myriad Truths which could be considered as the manifestation of all truths, but again, Makoto was able to seal Nyx, Death itself, the ultimate truth so Yu's persona is pretty much useless against Makoto's but it still wins against Ren's persona (One thing I want to say is that I found funny how shooting a god in the head TWICE is still not that surprising when you have Makoto and Yu's achivements as reference).
So basically, I think Ren and Yu are tight with each other but Makoto is definetly the strongest of them
Makoto is absolutely not the strongest. The raw feats shown in the games negate every point you made. The seal Makoto put on Nyx is so pathetically weak even Erebus can break it. Erebus gets slapped around by the Velvet Room Dwellers, who get slapped around by Yaldabaoth, who gets slapped around by Maruki.
Yu defeats Hino Kagutsuchi on solo, whome Elizabeth directly compares to Erebus, and even implies that he's stronger.
Joker >Yu >Makoto
@@jackour8167I see what you did there and I get your point but again, that's not really how we should calculate someone's strength, if it were like that then the rock would also beat the paper, because the scissors beat the paper but they are defeated by the rock.
There's a lot more to consider rather than who can defeat who, even so, that's why I also considered they're strength without they're personas. Even so, nice analysis you did there.
Don't get me wrong, it's not about my preferences, imo Joker is the coolest of them and my personal favourite but I do acknowledge that those guys are also very strong and are even stronger than him in lots of aspects
@@TheNotSoRealAdachi"I see what you did...."
Well, no, you don't. Considering how far away your analogy is from the actual context here.
"There's a lot more to consider than who beats who...."
There really isn't. And you wanna go by abilities, Yaldabaoth is a reality warper and shits all over Nyx and Izanami in terms of raw feats AND hax.
"Don't get me wrong...."
I wouldn't, don't worry. Izanami and Nyx simply don't compare to Yaldabaoth. Not even Hino Kagutsuchi.
@@jackour8167 Man, your arguments are actually really convincing and given that i have no good counterarguments I must admit defeat.
I also must admit that I don't really know much about persona, I have only played P5R and P3P, i'm still playing P4G. (Might aswell play P3R before P4G and P4A XD)
And I also like how you gave me a reason to think that Joker (my fav wildcard) is the strongest without feeling like coping bruh
Makoto Yuki beats Yu Narukami, and Yu Narukami beats me
It's actually the other way around.
Joker >Yu >Makoto
@@jackour8167 actually it's more like Yuki>Me>Yu Yuki simply because if his fusion Skills
There's actually a somewhat definable way to tell ranking here.
Makoto > Joker > Yu
Elizabeth routinely smacks around Erebus (Arena)-> Yaldabaoth takes over the VR, beats igor and the attendant (which I'm going to put on Elizabeths level with little real discernable differences, marg=liz=theo=lavenza)-> therefore yaldabaoth is significantly more powerful than erebus (not nyx)
Izanami hasn't shown any feat on any level close to any of the 2 or 3 (erebus, nyx, yaldabaoth). Yu 'defeated' her, i.e. changed her mind, while Makoto sealed Nyx and Joker killed Yaldabaoth. Sorry but dlc, which is the big thing everyone points to for yu being more powerful doesn't really mean much.
And also a fun little side note which is interesting... Joker actually hasn't used a world arcana. Satanael was of the fool arcana and he killed yald with it. And only after his journey was over did he get the world, so there's still technically a world persona that we don't know or see that he should have.
..... What?
Universe = World. There isn't really anything indicating otherwise. Makoto.... Isn't that impressive whatsoever. Sealing Nyx is.... Ok, but it's not really that impressive in the end. And it's not like its something he can freely use.
Joker >Yu >Makoto
Joker, because he scales to Adam Kadmon, who transcends the Tree of Life. The highest layer being where Nyx is sealed. And fuck, Yaldabaoth scales to that realm so he is stronger than Nyx.
Nyx isn't that powerful. There's a world of diffrence betwen her being able to destroy the earth by merging with the moon, and Yaldabaoth who was gonna destroy the entire world THEN remake it.
Hino Kagutsuchi in Arena is heavily implied to be able to destroy the world the same way Nyx would, so Nyx level. But he's still, curiously, seen as a little squint in comparsion to the Velvet Room dwellers, where as Yaldabaoth is above the dwellers entirly.
Note that Yu actually managed to defeat Hino Kagutsuchi all on his own.
Tatsuya and Maya are kinda similar to Joker. They scale to Nyarlathotep and Philemon who transcend the Tree of Life. So, there's that.
Naoya..... He doesnt really have that much feats tbh lol but Maki does. In EP at least.
Tatsuya = Maya = Joker >Yu >Makoto >Naoya
yaldabaoth was a fool...there is no need to use "world" to beat a fool....another fool was enough.
@@ranggapratama7324 That is quite literally the dumbest argument a Persona fan has shown me so far lmao
@@jackour8167 thank you?o the smartest fan
@@jackour8167 no shot Yaldabaoth a being made by humans scales to a being like Nyx
I hate comparing them but makoto is 100% the strongest even if I prefer Ren and Yu
(Disclaimer:i haven't played p3 yet, and maybe won't .)
Ren and Makoto are both right.
Yaladoboth was only powerful because society gave him power, he was all brawn no brain. And it is easier to kill a god in a physical form. And ren only one because society gave him power too.
For Makoto case, i can cut him some slack. he did seal an eldritch nightmare that was stated to be impossible to kill, he did the best he can do. but personally(to me at least) sealing only delay the fall for how everlong it last, it is never a true defeat.
Yu has kill a god ,though much weak than nyx ,and he technically didn't help to do it.
So,
Makoto (or yu)
Yu ( or Makoto)
Ren (you are the weakest)
Izanami is litterally the mother of earth, according to jap folklore
there is literally no achievement that really proves that nyx is more powerful than the other Bosses of persona the only thing that maybe proves that would be their possible titles and the ability to destroy all life on earth and nothing else manu Others suadows can achieve the same feat even shadows as Mada can swallow universes and nyx being an entity that dwells in the depths of the collective unconscious puts it on par in strength or inferior to Yaldabaoth who is the core of the collective unconscious it could rewrite the cognition of the entire world indeed done it Joker is easily the most powerful that not counting Royal because then he is even more powerful
Saying that Yaldabaoth is only powerful because society has given him powers makes no sense Literally all persona beings are formed from human cognition all are shadows and archetypes Yaldabaoth is even more powerful than any shadow since it is the core of the collective unconscious he can manipulate the cognition of all beings and he did that he is not powerful because he gained powers from society but because he was formed by them which is also something that happens to izanami and nyx
@@arthurbulhoes2702 you are right, belay my last
@@danguy6591 I wasn't trying to discredit izanami, I believe my take on yu is very incomplete. Plus I was running of half a brain
@@arthurbulhoes2702nyx legit was going to destroy the whole world, and even ryoji himself said that nyx is unbeatable. This is the avatar of nyx speaking about nyx so yeah. Yaldabaoth was only going to make the whole world or maybe just Japan fall under his control so humans have no more free will. And that's it for yaldabaoth. Nyx absolutely destroys izanagi and yaldabaoth. The only things that are above nyx are Philemon and nyarlathotep.
Next thing you know P6 protag goes way stronger than cause they survived Demi-Fiend
Well it doesnt matter cause the persona 6 protagonist gonna be able to reach out and defeat goku
Everyone here can stomp Goku neg diff
Joker fough someone multiverse level. With a deagle
Is Izanami actually even a fight in the regular Persona 4? Not Persona 4 Golden, the ACTUAL Persona 4
Yes
@@ayeojosh I thought the vanilla final boss was Ameno-Sagiri lmao
@@-SeaSnake- Most people missed the Izanami boss just like in golden because you have to choose the right dialogue. The only boss that’s not in the original is the Marie boss
I'll just say that physically Joker is the strongest, he's the only one who goes to the gym and takes steroids, no competition here.
Makoto has actual combat training and got second place in the regionals.
What combat training kendo
You know that persona users are instinctively able to uses certainly weapons and makotos is a sword him using kendo to win a fight in a controlled environment doesn't amount to much since he only did so after he awakened to his abilities. The only ones in sees who can say there actually skilled in there weapons is Akihiko and yukari.
@@lostnnotfound I talked about muscles you know from a physical point of view, what you are talking about is combat experience
@@khulmach9662 Look, I give an example that seems like people don't understand me, Asta from Black clover is superior to Naruto from a physical point of view but naruto is superior to Asta when we talk about experience and technique, in the comment I talked strictly about the fact that joker is the strongest from a physical point of view, in a real fight between the three of course as several things that are taken into account but I didn't do that, I talked about the fact that the joker with a gym and steroids from Death is the most physically strong.
@@haixaldonix4945 I was talking about the other guy but your actual pretty close it not steroids it's labanc coffee and some time protein and sometimes takemi medicine it in mementos missions it explain that he does training in labanc early in the morning daily and
I mean y’all can say Makoto is the strongest but he died in order to win😂😂Yu has myriad truths😂😂
He wouldn't have to if he fought the guys yu and ren did
Yeah because the theme is death genius lets switch theme i think makoto can sweep persona 5 bosses solo with only 3 persona Orpheus messiah and thanatos death
@@idolngmgapogi572fuck no lol Makoto dies horribly at Yaldabaoth
shut up all, Igor is the strongest! the most mightiest nose the universe has ever witnessed!
Yu: Don't I know how to handle Nyx
*uses sexy dance*
Makoto: First of all that skill never works and second she's boss.
*nyx is seduced*
Minato: HOW THE HELL THAT SKILL ISN'T EVEN IN PERSONA 4
Yu: Because I'm not you, I am Him
Imo, it goes Makoto=>Yu>Ren, ik alot of people will say, 'oh but makoto gets universe arcana', but that doesn't necessarily imoly it's stronger, it's the same as the world but from a different deck, it has the same design as the world, while yes Igor does slightly hype it up more, that's mkre because of the conditions behind each of the protagonists gaining their final arcana's, obviously Igor would be excited about seeing the universe as this would be the first time he would ever see a card like that being gained and used in a god like manner, he'd naturally not say the same thing about rhe rest of the protags since he's already seen that card before, there's also the fact that Santanel *isn't* a world arcana persona, he's a fool, the world arcana is something that Joker gains almost like an afterthought so it's not really the arcana itself that makes someone/something powerful so I don't think the universe purely makes Makoto the strongest
So why is Makoto still stronger. Fusion spells aren’t really used lore-wise, so I don’t consider them cannon. Remember that makoto died using great seal. If Yu or Ren had to, they could do it. They just did not need to because they were not facing death itself.
Yu killed a god by speaking words, so I have to call that a good feat.
But Ren has the power of the masses behind him. Everyone trusts the thieves. This belief gave them lots of power. While Yu and Makoto only got the power of S. Links, Ren got the power of all of Tokyo.
Power scaling is that the strength of enemy is not equal to strength of protagonist and vise versa.
Maruki : do not mistake our powers as equals.
I'm surprised Ren didn't bring up how his godslaying resume is significantly longer than either of theirs.
he literally beat a guy who could *alter reality* in any way that he pleased.
I mean.. You can't really kill death can you?
@@RuiFanTier depends on how strong you are. at the very least Maruki is capable of spitting death in the face.
@@christopherbravo1813only because Death was Locked out on the Moon,Nyx Could very well Wipe Him alongside humanity If Door-Kun wasn't Blocking her:/
@@RuiFanTierNyx is NOT death. She's just a really strong alien that happened to be stupid enough to land on earth which almost caused her death (!)
@@jesusmen6308No, she absolutely can not. Nyx by her nature CANT alter reality, or undo anything reality warping bs.
Jihei and Tatsuya and Maya laughing
And behind them the SMT protagonists are laughing
@@Usernamesdontmatter1 nah they’d still have the last laugh to all but Nanashi due to the Monado stuff and Philemon and Nyarlathotep being the culmination of the process that creates beings like Luci
i honestly love both narukami and makoto dunking on ren. he deserves it.
Makoto can use fusion spells
0:28 yeah that's accurate although I can use my own power fused with theirs(Picaro) they're still stronger
Fun fact: although makoto likes to say he is the strongest, the only one able to kill nyx is Joker with Satanael and Maruki with Adam Kadmon (no, I’m not making up this, this is mentioned in the official P3 book that came just after the first game version was launched and it has a section in which it has answers to some questions of the fans, in which it explains what Nyx is and also why is technically the reason why humans in persona 3 are like they currently are, and it also has a part that makes you understand why Joker would be able to defeat Nyx with sinful shell) I can explain if someone wants to
Nobody asked, yet I think it’s important for people to know.
First of all, Nyx isn’t a Goddess, she’s an alien that has a planetary size, when she collided with Gaia some parts of its body along with its soul and mind ended up sealed creating what we now know as earth, but the thing is that Nyx’s mind and soul created a death energy that could eliminate all life in the world, but the life it’s tough, all the living organisms forced themselves to evolve so they could survive, and in the process humans appeared, and they developed a mind and cognition, elements which ended up giving shape to shadows and creating the sea of souls AKA collective unconscious, technically the collective unconscious is the soul and mind of Nyx that exists and is shared amongst all living things, that’s why she is the mother of the shadows because shadows born from the sea of souls.
Now, why Joker and Maruki could defeat Nyx? Well, that’s because they can use a power higher than the one she currently possess as a fragmented entity, the power of having an attack (Joker) that has all the power of the collective unconscious or a perfect domain over it (Maruki) although Nyx is very strong, she can be defeated by the use of the power of the collective unconscious, we know that because that’s how the universe and world arcana are created, by the faith, hopes and desires of the people the protagonists cross their paths through, yet, even the most powerful arcana, the universe one that is capable of defeating Nyx if everything goes right (that didn’t happened) has only the power of the protagonists friends and a lot of the characters we come across, etc.
But, Joker’s persona, Satanael, literally has an attack that carries all the hopes, sins, rebel spirit and wishes of freedom of human kind, that’s another whole level. And Maruki, well, he has such an influence over the collective unconscious, that he could probably overpower Nyx by ironically, using its soul and mind against Nyx itself.
Pretty odd tbh
@@dio3471 you forgot that Satanael doesn't use the power of the whole human kind,he uses it only from Tokyo which is strong enough to beat Yaldy because he only affected the entirety of Tokyo while Nyx affects the entire world
@@alea2980 did you forgot that even mishima said that the official phantom thieves fans website became visited by the whole world? And also Joker did need the power of all human kind since Yaldabaoth born from a desire shared from the entire humanity, also, mementos fused with the entire planet, not only Japan
@@dio3471 Only Japan.
@@khulmach9662 if japan is all the human kind, then I suppose it’s indeed all japan
Ren is the strongest since god of contoll defeated Igor who would slap nyx.
More than Arguing Makoto and Yu just ganged on Ren.
as a big fan of p5 joker is majorly held back by his ultimate persona being just a fool arcana and using a GUN instead of some godly ultimate move, if he had an actual world persona he wouldn't be the weakest, granted beating a god without using the world arcana is very impressive though.
To be fair as well, it wasn't just a gun. The bullet used had the power of all seven deadly sins infused into it. Which as it's described is enough to pierce even the armor of a God. Realistically, that's pretty damn powerful. Even if Yaldabaoth was a "False God" why would the description say otherwise.
@@Theaveragegamer_12 yeah that's fair
Honestly, gonna give it to Joker. Killing a reality warping God that was casually thinking people out of existence and merging 2 separate realms of existance is imo more impressive than just sealing death. Maruki was playing God and bringing the dead back to life, altering everybody's life on a potentially planetary scale. Joker willed himself back into existence after being erased, and Yaldabaoth not only defeated the velvet room attendants that should all be comparable to each other, but he even took down Igor. And Joker killed him! Elizabeth on her own casually one shots Erebus, and to know Joker scales far above her is actually pretty crazy.
Hm... You have a point. Maybe they are all equal (protagonists)?
The velvet room attendants can not interfere with the fate of humanity no matter what. Stopping yaldabaoth was not their job. Everything that yaldabaoth did through planning and scheming nyx does by accident from waking up. All of the shadows, gods, and persona's are just aspects of nyx
@@imani2114"It's not their job to stop Yaldabaoth"
Not when it involves getting teeth bashed in by him.
Demi-fiend be like:
you can say that the demi-fiend is more powerful than makoto or Yu but being honest ren has more feats than he and everything the demi-fiend did Joker did better and did better as both defeated the archangels and Joker also defeated metraton and etc. .. we can also talk about lucifer or kagutsuchi but lucifer was testing the demi-fiend he didn't fight seriously and the kagutsuchi is comparable or superior to belzebub or metratron that joker has used one ans already defeated respectively the demi-fiend is powerful but no more than joker
@@arthurbulhoes2702 the uber pixie who gets summoned by velvet room attendants to megidolaon you is demi fiend's girlfriend
@@arthurbulhoes2702 You must be joking right? Joker can only do his stuff because he´s in the Metaverse that boost persona users powers.
@@amarant1275 to say that you definitely do not know the Joker since in persona the shadows and personas can only manifest in the shadow world or in the collective unconscious which both are other names of the metaverse the tartars of persona 3 is also part of the shadow world / collective unconscious and etc... they don't increase the power of personas or shadows and like said in persona 2 personas and shadows interact with demons
@@arthurbulhoes2702 Maybe I know more than you because in P5 the PTs have auto learned how to use their weapons by the power of magic (said by Ann, she suddendly knew how to use a whip) and can move at high speed or jump from high places where a normal human would perish just because their powers are boosted. Out of the Metaverse they´re normal kids so yeah, they´re boosted. In Q2 their guns doesn´t works because cognition doesn´t works there and they´re physically at the same lvl than P3 and P4 teams. They´re equal. I can´t talk about Demifiend because I haven´t played the game yet but don´t deny that in Metaverse persona users powers are enhanced.
Naoya: Beats Nyx in a sidequest
Tatsuya: Beats Nyarlathotep twice and solos Takahisa Kandori (Main Antagonist of Persona 1)
He nvr beated Kandori 💀 Literally nanjo was the one that killed him and Naoya beat that same Kandori as well
@@TheEmperorRaidou Tatsuya fought Kandori before the party kills him, in the optional Tatsuya Scenario in the PSP version of Eternal Punishment
@jaydenlobbe7911 ik that. Tatsuya nvr beat him there. Kandori was just toying him our bro. Even Tatsuya was surprised
The real question is ... Which protag has the most bomb moves?
Yeah Fusion Spell yeah summon 2 persona at once ehmm
Everybody keeps on hating on my boy Ren
Ren is the weakest ? WTF ?
Only played 5 and halfway through 4, I don't have enough time due to college but planning on playing 3 after 4, how would Yaldabaoth from P5 would scale to nyx? does nyx has reality manipulation also? if maruki could use that power to bring people back to life with adam kadmon and alter reality indefinetly wouldn't yaldabaoth be able to erase the concept of death or the concept of Nyx?
You pretty much better check wiki,specifically about what Dark Hour is and all that stuff
Yaldabaoth is god,sure,but he mostly exists due to humans subconscious stuff
Same kinda goes for Izanami
Nyx is literal god,existing not because of anyone and not depending on anything
Also next year Persona 3 Reload incoming so you can just play it after you done wiht Persona 4 i guess
@@skell6134 Nyx isn't a God, she's an alien that has a planetary size, when she collided with Gaia some parts of its body along with its soul and mind ended up sealed creating earth, but Nyx's mind and soul created a death energy that could eliminate all life in the world
@@Schale.kivotos I... still have a point,but thanks for correction
The thing with yaldaboath and maruki is that joker has innate reality manipulation resistance due to being the trickster, it's not really a feat in joker's favor, but rather hax, which while still a good ability to have, is not going to help him if he were to fight any persona protagonist since none of them have reality manipulation abilities(besides maybe Makoto but that depends on your interpretation). Talking about sole raw power itself nyx is stronger, and Makoto tanked those attacks from nyx multiple times in a row which is a big feat of resistance, to add to makoto's favor further he has access to fusion spells which give him some good hax, notably invincibility for a turn and incredibly powerful almighty damage
Lowkey? Imo Makoto is the strongest,and since royal, yu is the weakest. Ren is like 2nd place but aint noone beating makoto😂 lets see what p6 protag gonna look like
Makoto had to sacrifice himself to contain Nyx, didn't kill Nyx, the other two directly killed their Gods and lived to tell the tale.
Determining if Izanami or Nyx is stronger is quite difficult but considering Yu actually killed his God I Would say Yu, then Makoto, then Ren.
Nyx is more powerful than izanami. Izanami was born from the wishes of the masses but Nyx created the entire collective unconscious, meaning she created and has the abilities of every shadow and/or “god” in persona.
@@ThatBoah Technically, nyx didn't create the CU, humans did. It's a defense mechanism to protect them from nyx's psyche.
@@GabyEzePereira you’re right, I worded it poorly. Doesn’t change the fact that Nyx was the trigger and is the mother of all shadows
@@ThatBoah Yes, i was trying to bring up that detail (i'm sorry, i kind of overreacted). Either way, i agree with you.
Smt:
Not Gonna Lie I Think Ren Is The Strongest, Feel Free To Oppose In The Comments.
NOVA KAISER
LOL.
0:19 yes
Joker can beat all of them because of myrith truths
Joker doesn't have myriad truths. That's Yu
@imani2114 Yes, he does
@@deanjabar9716 If you're for some reason counting dlc, then they can all use myriad truths. Myriad truth is izanagi's ability
@imani2114 I'm not talking about dlc's. The way you get it is by registering it, once you have access to it buy personas in the velvet room
@@deanjabar9716 my guy that is dlc. Jokers persona ability is called sinful shell. Yu's is myriad truths
Ren: shut up, i have the DLC of the Persona of You two, i literally 3 times stronger than you two
P3 protagonist definitely strongest because of fusion abilities but he is the weakest in eating contest.
Have you read the P3 manga? He aint the weakest at eating thats for sure lol
@@JustChillinAndy Mangas aren´t canon.