Two Types of Christians? Converts and Disciples? - Ask Pastor Tim
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2018
- Can a person be a Christian without being a disciple of Jesus Christ? If we teach that “disciple” and “Christian” are synonymous terms, then are we teaching a works salvation? Can a case be made in the Bible for a distinction between these terms?
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Christian= Disciple.You either are or you're not. My food is to do the will of my father, it's not just lip service. Our actions are a reflection of our faith not our words alone. Amen. That is all. God bless!
Matthew 16:24-26 KJV - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Amen 🙏!!!!!
Brilliant teaching!!!!
Yep, this error is still coming around. We ran into this even at Bible college 25 years ago. Thank you Tim and James, for standing this false teaching up to the Word to demolish it. Your church and this YT ministry has been a great blessing to us, brothers.
Thank you for this.
Jesus is the way the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Him. Follow Jesus and his teachings, he is the only one who can save us.
Right after I was converted my wife and I attended a Independent Fundamental Baptist church that taught this concept. Over time the Holy Spirit guided me to Lordship salvation. My pastor and I at the time disagreed on it and after many months of praying and asking God for repentance the Lord showed me reformed doctrine. I am so thankful to be in a church now that worships the Lord in Spirit and in Truth. This video is so good to jumpstart that process that took me quite a while to get an answer to. Thank you pastor Tim for these excellent videos. God bless you ministry.
So your saying the Holy Spirit lead you to Lordship salvation but Lordship salvation turned out to be false ? I'm not quite following
I used to attend an IFB church years ago also. When I heard the pastor preach a message on this, we got out of there! The Lord finally led us to a reformed church also. Praise God!
Hi pastor Tim .How are you doing my dear brother .Thank you for Sharing your teaching with me .Nice to see you again .God blessed.AMEN.
Amen . Hallaluijah 🙌
A true disciple is one who reproduces him or herself. Jesus commanded his disciples to go and make disciples. To understand what Jesus meant we must investigate further the relationship between master and disciple. Intentionally living is necessary for us to be disciples for Christ. The relationship between Paul and Timothy is a model for us to mimic. Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. Jesus basically lived with his disciples and showed them how he lived.
believing is repenting and discipleship, some do more then others and some are called for speciel service, but if a believer leads ONE person to christ in his or her lifetime she has served the lord.
(1 Corinthians 3:11-15) Is talking about the Church and Its Leaders "If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved-even though only as one escaping through the flames". It is very important, at the very outset, to observe that in this section of the Corinthian letter, Paul employs the metaphor of a great building. It is God’s building (a “temple”), and within it dwells the Spirit of God, thus, it is imperative that it be kept holy. The illustration, then, has to do with the house of God - with Christians.
The builder is the teacher and if one’s converts do not survive the hardships of the Christian life, and abandon their faith (Heb. 3:12), the teacher will suffer some sense of “loss.” Not the loss of his own salvation, but, so far as the apostate is concerned, the teacher’s labor will have been in vain. Paul provides a preview of such anxiety when he bluntly tells the Galatian saints: “I fear for you, that I may have labored over you in vain” (Gal. 4:11). Did not Jesus feel some sense of "loss when Judas defected and ended up in perdition (Jn. 17:12)?
Two important truths stand out clearly from a consideration of this narrative.
One’s converts may defect from the faith and be lost.
In the event that such occurs, though the teacher may experience the loss of his apostate disciple, yet he himself will not be held responsible for the defection. He will be saved if he passes the “fire” test personally.
It, therefore, is the epitome of folly to suggest that this context teaches explicitly, or even implies, that a child of God can never be lost. The truth is, it affirms just the opposite of that view.
As preachers labor, some souls they convert will endure and be saved. Others, however, will fall away. Paul often expresses the joy that rewarded him when the people he taught are faithful. He also mourns the loss of those who become unfaithful.
See 1 Thess. 2:19,20; 3:5; Phil. 2:14-16; 4:1; Gal. 4:11; 2 John 4; 3 John 3; etc. According to the context, this must be the reward or loss a preacher suffers.
Yet the preacher himself can be saved eternally, provided he did his work faithfully, regardless of whether or not the people he taught remain faithful. This does not excuse lazy or indifferent work. One should take heed how he builds (v10). But it is a comfort to know that, if we are diligent in our work of teaching, then our salvation does not depend on whether or not the people we taught remain faithful. The final outcome of any man's salvation is between him and God. If we do our part, we will be saved no matter whether others whom we taught are or are not saved.
Again, this explanation fits the context, which is discussing the work of preachers. It also harmonizes with other passages. There have been other "explanations" offered that fit neither this context nor other passages.
1 John 5 who are the overcomers?
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Mmm
The word believe has a deeper meaning that what is perceived. In the Greek I think it also means faithfulness
"And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians." Acts11:26
Which one of us saved christians that still sin can really make him lord of everything we do. The only way we keep his commandments is by the power of the holy spirit and by the faith he gave us to believe in him and what HE has done for us on that cross and his death burial, and resurrection. The King James Bible says
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Salvation is a gift for those who believe in him and what he has done for us. Every Christian understands that Jesus is lord, Jesus is king, Jesus is the I AM of the bible. Jesus is God himself. He also is the savior, he also is the Messiah, the Christ , the son of the living God, the word became flesh. The creator and much more. How did you come to understand that if we don't submit to him as Lord we are not saved. John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Acts 16:31
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God-he and his whole household.
THE JAILER CAME TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD AFTER BEING TOLD ABOUT JESUS. Just because we come to recognize things about Jesus doesn't mean that we can totally submit to his will because we are still in the flesh but we can submit to loving him and loving our neighbors and walking in truth and in spirit and and not practicing false hood.
1 john 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The gospel that the disciples preached was Jesus death burial and resurrection. And that we should believe in that.
If we aren't born again, we'll go to hell
I agree a hundred percent!! However, that's not the end of it. We also have to turn from sin, get baptized in Jesus name, read the Bible daily, pray, and live your life in a Godly way. Don't acknowledge God with your lips, then go out and live like the devil.
@@brandycobia694 Being a true "born again " believer will result in that behavior following the confession if faith
@@ondreatorrence4322 that's very true
Sep 26 2020
O wow! 3 decades...he should be amazingly holy by now. 30 years of walking in the Spirit..demonstrating Gods Spirit and Power.
All Christian are disciples because disciple means learner we never stop learning
Good, excellent even, but not pure. Only 99% pure, but oh, what difference that 1% makes!
PSALMS 89
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endurefor ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; NOTE
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. notenote
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. note
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
The reason why a disciple is called a disciple is because he has a teacher. If a person hears the Gospel but does not have someone to teach him he is merely a convert. When Jesus said go and make disciples he charged them to teach all that He commanded. Paul told the Corinthians to follow him as he followed Christ. Converts must be taught in order to become disciples. Look at the Ethiopian in the book of Acts. He was converted but nowhere is he called a disciple. So I agree there are converts and there are disciples and the differences between them is one has a teacher and the other doesn’t. Now before someone says “well the Holy Spirit is our teacher” I will say yes He is but if the responsibility was solely placed on the Holy Spirit then the Lord would not have given pastors and teachers. He would not have charged us to teach all that He has commanded.
Everyone who is under a free grace according with a freely offered-and-received justification is a new creation with a new nature and can't help but make a practice of right-living, 1Jn3, Rom 6v14 walking in the Spirit of it, in the faith of it. And they and they alone, specially. They serve(live) in newness of spirit, as under grace, not law, united to Christ, not law, as joint-heirs. Their death to the law's debt of penalty and debt of obedience to it, and their resurrection to life under grace is right at the heart of holiness and obedience to God. Christ is their gospel-Lord as God, their kephale (source), as the Father is Christ's. The spirit of it all per Galatians is liberty and life abundantly (Jn10v10). Jesus himself, come Jn 15 time, taught his disciples, in effect, to no longer call him master in the sense of "servant"-master relationship, being that they were now "friends" and they had been/were being schooled in the gospel-relationship that was concurrently being forged redemptive-historically. And more has happened since- the fellowship has now been consummated, fully established!
The term "disciple" is only used in the more "narrative" books as descriptors in some form, be it instructive. The essence of it has matured; it's description has been filled out; what "following" means when one has been apprehended and "married" and become a "joint-heir". I think the regenerate Bride of Christ at large, myself included, needs better understanding of what the maturity of now being "come of age sons" means in how new creations live by virtue of "knowing" what it means to be under grace and where we're actually at eschatologically, in the New Covenant kingdom. Calvin's short definition of piety is helpful: "that reverence and love for God that a knowledge of all his benefits induces". "All" being an operative word in my mind, where the gospel is the free (without a cause) gift of righteousness and the consequent kingdom resurrection from the Adamic curse, in the rest of God. More than a mere "disciple", but "union", "joined one spirit with Christ". "Lordship" in truth is a gospel thing, not a rewards thing, not an option for a so-called higher class; nor is it a faith-with-'works'- subsumed thing. It's surely only free grace gospel believers that actually obey the good news and bear its fruit in spirit and truth. True "free grace" being that, the gospel offers righteousness freely along with death to a law of works relationship with God, and the inheritance of the resurrection from all the curse accordingly; it's to be freely received as such, obeyed as such; and the fruit of it depends on it, belongs to it.
Philip Paynter abeg adon understand?
Tim doesn't quantify this at all. I mean do you hate your family tim? Have you forsaken all? Have you cut off you hand or cut out your eye? Are you as perfect as God? Jesus said all these things. I gess if you honest you would say you are not saved or?????
Come on now. You can see how intellectually dishonest that rebuke is, can you not?
@@ChristDiedForYou_liveforhim no I can't, that exactly what tim is teaching. Please let me know how I being dishonest.
Hyper grace/easy believing teach that obedience and repentance is a work, that discipleship is not needed, and they follow Paul's teachings and ignore Jesus because they say His teachings were just for the Jews. I suspect they follow Paul and not Jesus because of the significant difference in their salvation doctrines.
They have one and the same gospel, which is the same right from Genesis all the way through to Revelation: the gift of fulfilled righteousness imputed to man through Christ for justification, and the kingdom of the resurrection from the curse in God's favour accordingly. There's also a redemptive-history where, come John the Baptist, the time and manner of these gospel promises, (that Peter says believers and even angels had desired to understand aforetime, yet rejoicing ahead of time despite the prophecies being sealed up in these regards) was being revealed. It was indeed "to the Jew first", then the long-since judged ten northern tribes, then the Gentile. Jesus was, as God says in Romans 15, minister to the circumcision (after the flesh-the Jew) accordingly. So indeed, his modes of expression are perfectly redemptive-historically suitable per God's intent, just as come Pentecost and even later (post the persecution of Stephen onwards) as the New Covenant "testament" was being confirmed (up until that confirmation was complete with the destruction of the Mosaic Covenant temple and Jerusalem) revelation brought clarity and a then-suitable expression. God has indeed given the highest clarity in doctrinal teaching regarding grace and the believers relationship with God in books such as Romans and Galatians, (but we could add Ephesians etc) which has long since been recognized in historical evangelical Reformed teaching (not often neo-quasi-Reformed). The Reformation depended on that. It behooves to follow God's own hermeneutic as expressed in the bible, with proper use of the analogy of faith and of scripture, understanding the redemptive time frame and plan - the how, the what, the time and the manner, with proper logical priority; or else make the same mistakes the unbelieving Jews did for similar reasons. Redemptive history, yes; different gospel, no.
A "work" in the negative sense as opposed to faith and grace, is anything put into picture as grounds of right-standing, fellowship and the grace of the Spirit with God, other than Christ's finished atonement. Jesus nor Paul knows of no gospel or holiness that isn't merely through identification with Christ's death and resurrection, from old to new creation, completed upon instant of new birth. "Serving" God, living in newness of spirit, passively and consequently actively, is wholly dependent on that.
As Peter said in 2 Peter 3:16 Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Indeed, but not the "perspicuous" /clear doctrine of the free justification of the UN-godly on the basis of Christ's substitutionary life and death alone, giving the gift of Christ's active and passive obedience reckoned of these peeps, the fulfilment and realise release from the law/a covenant of works. The sanctification unto life that comes by it, in deliverance from the law/a law of works. Miss that, confuse or obfuscate that, and there is no repentance nor faith, anyway. A lot could be said about the problems with the legal variety of Lordship salvation, as also with the low view of the new birth and repentance on the so-called "no Lordship" side, but with regards to faith, it is indeed works-religion, and with regards to repentance, it's not that they have too high a view of repentance - it's that they have too low a view, that misses the root of it, and they have too low a view of the new birth, the New nature, and the liberty and life of the regenerate..Right at the heart of sin and sinning as a rule of life is a person trying to attain to righteousness under a debt of obedience to an unfulfilled law. This is a universal "in Adam" problem - certainly not an "in Christ" solution to that problem - and it means that the works-religionist has the nature of sin to all his "good" works, and - while the kingdom is near him - he enters it with much difficulty - behind the "tax collector and prostitute". It's hard for him to believe. It's hard for him to repent. And he doesn't have the obedience he claims, in root or in practice. And dressing it up seeking for that righteousness as "progressive sanctification" in an Augustinian framework (or positing such a doctrine in contradiction to what is assented to regarding that of justification) doesn't make it gospel grace, either...When Jesus said to the Jews, they must lose all to follow him, he's speaking to God's-then covenant people in the same language as John the Baptist prior - "don't presume to say 'we have Abraham for our Father [that is, we're in God's favour because we are Jews with God's special dealings and sure-fulfilment of his kingdom promises to us in our God-empowered bilateral covenant of works]..God is able to raise up children to Abraham of these stones". He's saying they must have the repentance whereby they die to a sense of corporate righteousness, and all the affections of sin rooted similarly. They must "go outside the camp". The heart of that, the root, whereby it's a given that they have repentance from sinning as rule of life and all fruit following, is a covenant-death to being in Adam as a self-righteous sinner. The Law/a bilateral arrangement was the administration of that death. The death to the power of sin and death that every person born in Adam needs is a death to the root and the fruit, and a resurrection to life. And it's applied to the ungodly - and the ungodly only - freely - not on grounds of faith or repentance - the moment it's received freely (faith in true repentance) on the grounds that Christ died one's death and lived one's life for righteousness so that they would stand and live in life and life abundantly as complete in Christ for righteousness and the kingdom. Christ died the death, and lived the life that we needed, and it's only in having freely received that that we die and are raised anew in this life here and now, unto liberty and the true holiness that pertains.
My life is a lie
You good?
Yea you good!
?*
The two types are hypocrite's and sheep!!
There are billions of ppl on the earth. There are definetly more than 2 types of christians.