All the ideas you mentioned are right on. Yes, you rough grind > heat treat > finish grind > finish work and sharpen. Yes, you can grind on a single wheel without any guides. I do most of my grinding on a singe wheel without any rests. I do mark my center line, and try to do the same thing on both sides of the blade. I would recommend joining a knife making forum such as British Blades or Blade Forums. The forums are full of great advice.
This is the first time in 20 years that I've seen this set up. Delbert Clark of Clark Knives made a grinder like this in the late 70's and it was cut up and sold in pieces after his passing. Thank you for the walk back! Nice work, by the way!
I very rarely make comments about the ,work and accomplishments of anyone on UA-cam. You are an exception to the rule.Thanks for the info. I hope you stay in this for a very long time. You are what the USA was known for decades ago. The more people view your work, the more they get inspired. A catalyst for creative excellence.
That is a fantastic way of hollow grinding! I'm no expert on hollow grinding, so I don't know how well the grinds come out in the end, but for time sake, this is an excellent way of doing it!
i honestly think this is the best invention for belt grinding a knife! it takes half as long and is much more precise. whats up with all the haters? Good work man
I am happy to hear, that you used that protection. In industrial meetings I always invest 1 to 2 days with all engineers, where we only focus onto safety issues of the industrial machines, which we have to install. Much harm can be done, if safety is neglected and therefore we should also pay much attention to it privately. But your grinding method is great.
Awesome video of a true craftsman. Ive been researching belt grinders to make my own. You just prove the old addage. Its not the tool (or the grinder) that maters, its the craftsman (atrist) behind the tool. Nice simple design.
I'm pretty sure that there's a disclaimer in the "Hooked On Phonics" series that warns about the WHOLE "sounds like" vs. "spelled like" phenomena. Outstanding grinder setup. Scary as shit to imagine putting anything in from the top, but as long as the blade hasn't been ground enough to squeeze through from below, I guess you're golden.
That is a good valid point, a top guard would make the machine a lot safer. If I were to let somebody other than me use the machine it would have a top guard and belt guards.
I'm impressed how cool it seems to do the work. Not much scorching on the blade and it appears hand held with nothing to protect from heat. Nice setup.
But lewis like you said, you quite confident in the use and if anybody else would use it it would have a guard. I didn't say thanks in my comment - So thanks for posting its a very intriguing setup - I love it ;)
Exactly. Apart from the fact that the grinder is working with open belts (i.e. you can stick your fingers between belt and wheel) this is as safe as can be.
That sounds like a cool grinder, those are big motors. I agree with you about the safety aspects. I would like to see you grinder it sounds like a good tool.
@Squarerig I make razors, a hollow grind works well for razors. The hollow allows the metal behind the bevel to be very thin, this works out well for razors. The hollow also makes honing razors easier, when you lay a razor on a stone only the spine and the bevel touch the stone it is like having a built in honing guide.
@TheMuslimKiller Straight razors are honed by laying them flat on the hone. The hollow in a razor allows the edge and the spine to touch the hone. That way you do not have to hone the whole side of the of the blade. The hollow makes it a lot easier polish the edge to a razor sharp edge.
The wheels in the video are caster wheels from the farm supply store that have been thinned out, trued, balanced, and had bearings put in them. Sunray also makes good wheels.
If I stick it from the top. The blade pops through really fast and scares me. LIke you said it can ruin a blade. The grinder has enough flex in it to let the blade through without breaking. My heart rate jumps and I am wide awake for awhile, but it is not a disaster.
I am doing the first grinding before the hardening and quenching. I am not worried about overheating the metal. After hardening and tempering I use water coolant system to keep the blade cool.
You are right it is just a couple of belt sanders. Knife makers and blade makers tend to call the big belt sanders, grinders. It is just a terminology thing. So in my world it is a grinder.
Thank you for the kind words. I mark the center line and lay out lines when I use the single wheel grinder. I have more control grinding up to the lines with the single wheel, I am not sure why it is just the way I work best. I have used water before when doing the final grinding, there is a tray to catch the water on the double wheel grinder. Some times I use water when final grinding sometimes I do not, it depends on what kind of belts I am using.
I am in the same boat with you. I watch other peoples videos and say to my self I can do that. But, then I try it and find out it is not as easy it looks.
Good observation, but I was rough grinding, the blade has not been heat treated yet. After heat treat I would go slower and not let the blade get hot and change color. Before heat treating I am not worried to much about over heating the blade. The blade is going to be heated red hot during the heat treat process.
@wvblade I understand gathering parts, I am always thinking of things to build. The little jig is all-thread and an all-thread coupler that I silver soldered together. I just happened to have the all-thread laying around so that is what I made my rest out of, it could be made any number of ways.
I have a lot more control over the shape of the hollows on a single wheel grinder. When I grind razors the hollow does not usually conform to the shape of the contact wheel. I tend to grind the area behind the edge and first bit of the blade a bit thin. It is easier for me to do on a singe wheel grinder. I just have more control over what I am doing on a single wheel grinder.
I am a fan of old fashion plain carbon steels and some alloyed carbon steels. I do use stainless on occasion I use cpm154 or AEBL. Most of the knife supply companies sell small supplies of steel. I buy from various sources, mainly New Jersey steel baron, or Admiral steel. My advice would be make a few knives our of a plain steel like 1080 or 1084, then move on to more exotic steels if you want to.
Personally, I like that Dovo Gentleman's 5/8" set you have - but guess the wife isn't getting that 'holiday hint' good enough... Beautiful razors, though.
I was wearing a full face respirator while grinding. I added my voice at a later date after editing the video. You are right about the pinch points. If I were to let other people use my grinder I would have the proper guards in place.
That's why you use it from the bottom side, where the wheels are spinning away from you. I saw a buddy of mine get his thumb pulled through the corner of a cylindrical grinder once. A part he was feeding onto the rest spun out and pulled his thumb between the rest and the corner of the stone. No need to tell you it made a mess of his thumb. I imagine this double sander configuration you have would do similarly if you came down through the top side...it would pull you through the wheels. OUCH!
@lewisrazors OK, I have a vertical sander, and a bunch of 1X42's...I like Klingspor, a German made belt...middle of the range on price, not too agressive on the material removal, but very long life. I've used a lot of their abrasives in my jobs as welder and machinist/mechanic on a variety of industrial stuff, so I needed the good quality. Klingspor sells retail, but has $50 minimum. If you can get any, I think you'll like them. They make belts, disc's, hard wheels, cur-off's.
Hey some good cheap sources of metal for tools are: leaf springs, old files (might cost you a small fortune grinding it smooth) best I've ever had was part of a old blade from a sawmill resaw/bandsaw... Look up how to test metal to see if it is high carbon steel. Easiest way I know is to put to the grinder and look at the quality of the sparks! Best of luck!
Sir: I did this back in the early 1970's. After a few days I had this miserable pain in my right forefinger. The pressure from holding the tang had injured a nerve in my forefinger. Some 50+ years later I still have some pain. I see that you hold the tang the same way I did. Maybe you have just been lucky. BTW, would like to see the finished razor.
I did not develop the pain in the finger, I only used this grinder for a short while before going back to a single wheel grinder. Some if the razors in this older video were rough ground on the double wheel . ua-cam.com/video/PGwxnD_LO0g/v-deo.html
Wonderful Lewis. It's a stroke!! You said you no longer use the double grinder. . .How do you get a precise bevel with only one grinding wheel going. I was also wondering what would keep you from feeding water from the top on each wheel to keep the the heat down. . . since both wheels are running down and the excess water could be caught and drained. I love your videos Lewis. I learn something with every one. Thank you so much for sharing!
You have great problem-solving skills and enviable ingenuity. I also like your razors, but I've said that before. The grinder is amazing. Wish I had room in my workshop for one like it. I see you have your share of comments from the immature dits that can only get attention by saying stupid things. I'll bet they make momma proud. *facepalm*
That is brilliant Lewis!! i noticed there are two separate starts, is there a knob to adjust the distance between grinding wheels? Or do you adjust just one side?
I looked up your website. Wow you make some nice blade ! Very skilled. Is it THAT hard to use such a blade for shaving? I spent so much on those disposable and name brand it's not even funny...
@dougspair The belts are 1X42 belts, the are generic ceramic belts I buy them from various sources, I shop around and try to get my belts when there is a sell going on.
@Veikra There is a short learning curve to using a straight razor, but it is not that hard. There is a lot of information on straight razors at the Straight Razor Place forums
The wheels are spinning so that they are pushing the blade away and down toward the table. If someone other that me were using the grinder I would put on a guard on the the top side of the the wheels to prevent accidents.
+ tonycstech In reality you get a lot more variabilty for how you hold the blade. Both sides of the grinder cut evenly enough the randomness and inaccuracy is induced by hand holding the work. In a perfect world things could be be better. This is an easy to make and use set up. It is easy to make complicated setups, designing simple clean setups takes a lot of thought.
Your ingenuity is only surpassed by the quality of your work! Are both wheels turning towards the razor? That would mean LH wheel clockwise RH wheel counter clockwise?
That is pretty fucking cool! was it sharp enough to cut anything when you finished grinding or did you have to sharpen it with a sharpening stone or something?
that is a really awesome set up. i do have a question though. how hard are these to heat treat after the double hollow grind because i was wondering since the metal is very thin in comparison to the spine do they crack alot or warp during ht.? thanks Mark
All the ideas you mentioned are right on. Yes, you rough grind > heat treat > finish grind > finish work and sharpen. Yes, you can grind on a single wheel without any guides. I do most of my grinding on a singe wheel without any rests. I do mark my center line, and try to do the same thing on both sides of the blade. I would recommend joining a knife making forum such as British Blades or Blade Forums. The forums are full of great advice.
This is the first time in 20 years that I've seen this set up. Delbert Clark of Clark Knives made a grinder like this in the late 70's and it was cut up and sold in pieces after his passing. Thank you for the walk back! Nice work, by the way!
Thank you for your comment.
I very rarely make comments about the ,work and accomplishments of anyone on UA-cam. You are an exception to the rule.Thanks for the info. I hope you stay in this for a very long time. You are what the USA was known for decades ago. The more people view your work, the more they get inspired. A catalyst for creative excellence.
Pretty ingenious idea for hollow grinding blades. It allows you to get the same grind on both sides of the blade, simultaneously. I like it...
That is a fantastic way of hollow grinding! I'm no expert on hollow grinding, so I don't know how well the grinds come out in the end, but for time sake, this is an excellent way of doing it!
Thanks for the comment. The tool is an excellent roughing tool, but is only an OK finishing tool.
What an ingenious device. I just love seeing peoples' creativity at work--even if this machine is not currently being used. Well done, brother!
Gil Mosko I appreciate your thoughts, Thank you. I agree I am always amazed by the things people come up with. I enjoy seeing what others have made.
Very unique belt grinder. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Brilliant little piece of machinery! Sure makes the rough grinding process slick. I like the fact that the distance between wheels is adjustable.
+GlenfinnanForge Cool, I am glad you liked it.
i honestly think this is the best invention for belt grinding a knife! it takes half as long and is much more precise. whats up with all the haters? Good work man
I am happy to hear, that you used that protection. In industrial meetings I always invest 1 to 2 days with all engineers, where we only focus onto safety issues of the industrial machines, which we have to install. Much harm can be done, if safety is neglected and therefore we should also pay much attention to it privately.
But your grinding method is great.
you cant beat good old solid engineers. they are a dying breed.
Awesome video of a true craftsman. Ive been researching belt grinders to make my own. You just prove the old addage. Its not the tool (or the grinder) that maters, its the craftsman (atrist) behind the tool. Nice simple design.
Alamodem Thanks that is a great compliment, I worked hard at keeping the design of the grinder simple. Thank you for the comments.
I'm pretty sure that there's a disclaimer in the "Hooked On Phonics" series that warns about the WHOLE "sounds like" vs. "spelled like" phenomena. Outstanding grinder setup. Scary as shit to imagine putting anything in from the top, but as long as the blade hasn't been ground enough to squeeze through from below, I guess you're golden.
Poster child for the hollow grind. Wow man, that really cool. Thanks for sharing.
love your machine and the use of the sliding vices to adjust the belts... genuis!!!
That is a good valid point, a top guard would make the machine a lot safer. If I were to let somebody other than me use the machine it would have a top guard and belt guards.
the fun is to make it, and you enjoy it by sharing ,thanks for being generous
sam terian You are very welcome, thanks for the kind words.
I'm impressed how cool it seems to do the work. Not much scorching on the blade and it appears hand held with nothing to protect from heat. Nice setup.
But lewis like you said, you quite confident in the use and if anybody else would use it it would have a guard. I didn't say thanks in my comment - So thanks for posting its a very intriguing setup - I love it ;)
I can't even begin to describe how genius this configuration is... have to build one a.s.a.p.
It is a good design for doing one thing, but it is not a versatile tool, now days I use a single wheel grinder for everything.
Exactly. Apart from the fact that the grinder is working with open belts (i.e. you can stick your fingers between belt and wheel) this is as safe as can be.
I love shaving with straight razors. I have a nice collection of vintage razors, some of which give really good shaves.
+Sam King I am with you, I love shaving with my vintage razors.
That sounds like a cool grinder, those are big motors. I agree with you about the safety aspects. I would like to see you grinder it sounds like a good tool.
@Squarerig I make razors, a hollow grind works well for razors. The hollow allows the metal behind the bevel to be very thin, this works out well for razors.
The hollow also makes honing razors easier, when you lay a razor on a stone only the spine and the bevel touch the stone it is like having a built in honing guide.
I always wondered how a Hollow Grind was made, Thanx Mr. Lewis.
+paulie 4x It is just one way of making a hollow grind, thanks for the comment.
I have got to make one of those! I've been doing it the hard way all these years. Nice setup.
@TheMuslimKiller Straight razors are honed by laying them flat on the hone. The hollow in a razor allows the edge and the spine to touch the hone. That way you do not have to hone the whole side of the of the blade. The hollow makes it a lot easier polish the edge to a razor sharp edge.
The wheels in the video are caster wheels from the farm supply store that have been thinned out, trued, balanced, and had bearings put in them. Sunray also makes good wheels.
Brilliant design. I liked the blade right up to the last grinding, when it had the un-ground section. But all the same, great work.
If I stick it from the top. The blade pops through really fast and scares me. LIke you said it can ruin a blade. The grinder has enough flex in it to let the blade through without breaking.
My heart rate jumps and I am wide awake for awhile, but it is not a disaster.
I am always changing my progression of belts trying to find the best setup. Now I am going 60-220-400-800 It seem to be working for me.
I am doing the first grinding before the hardening and quenching. I am not worried about overheating the metal.
After hardening and tempering I use water coolant system to keep the blade cool.
Now I have to go look for bicycle burn out videos. There is always something new to learn about.
You are right it is just a couple of belt sanders. Knife makers and blade makers tend to call the big belt sanders, grinders. It is just a terminology thing. So in my world it is a grinder.
Very effective setup, nice job ! Couldn't be more simple
Thanks
Neat set up! I didn't think it really existed. Cool!
Thanks
Neat the way that the belts stay true on the pulleys.
That is so cool. Love that double grinder mate
Thank you for the kind words.
I mark the center line and lay out lines when I use the single wheel grinder. I have more control grinding up to the lines with the single wheel, I am not sure why it is just the way I work best.
I have used water before when doing the final grinding, there is a tray to catch the water on the double wheel grinder. Some times I use water when final grinding sometimes I do not, it depends on what kind of belts I am using.
You are right a guard would be the prudent thing to do. If I were going to let other people use it I definitely put a guard on it.
@MrBrander Those are all good, valid points. At the time I made this, it is what worked out the easiest for me to put together.
okay thanks for the quick reply. Didn't realize that it was going downward. Thanks again for posting.
I am in the same boat with you. I watch other peoples videos and say to my self I can do that. But, then I try it and find out it is not as easy it looks.
Good observation, but I was rough grinding, the blade has not been heat treated yet.
After heat treat I would go slower and not let the blade get hot and change color. Before heat treating I am not worried to much about over heating the blade. The blade is going to be heated red hot during the heat treat process.
Thanks for posting this, answers alot of questions I had.
@wvblade I understand gathering parts, I am always thinking of things to build. The little jig is all-thread and an all-thread coupler that I silver soldered together. I just happened to have the all-thread laying around so that is what I made my rest out of, it could be made any number of ways.
I have a lot more control over the shape of the hollows on a single wheel grinder. When I grind razors the hollow does not usually conform to the shape of the contact wheel. I tend to grind the area behind the edge and first bit of the blade a bit thin. It is easier for me to do on a singe wheel grinder. I just have more control over what I am doing on a single wheel grinder.
This is the way to go! Just great👌👌👌
Matson Ruddell I am glad you liked the video.
They are 1/2 hp motors they spin in opposite directions the way that are wired changes their direction of rotation.
That's pretty cool.. Never seen a grinder like that before..
+tommy23490 Glad you liked it,
@Duckyistrippin The wheels are cast steel caster wheels. They were trued, cut to width, and had bearings put in them at a machine shop.
I am a fan of old fashion plain carbon steels and some alloyed carbon steels. I do use stainless on occasion I use cpm154 or AEBL. Most of the knife supply companies sell small supplies of steel. I buy from various sources, mainly New Jersey steel baron, or Admiral steel.
My advice would be make a few knives our of a plain steel like 1080 or 1084, then move on to more exotic steels if you want to.
Personally, I like that Dovo Gentleman's 5/8" set you have - but guess the wife isn't getting that 'holiday hint' good enough... Beautiful razors, though.
I was wearing a full face respirator while grinding. I added my voice at a later date after editing the video. You are right about the pinch points. If I were to let other people use my grinder I would have the proper guards in place.
I use 1x42 belts, with the low grit belts I can get about three blades done. With 150 grit and up it is one blade per set of belts.
That's why you use it from the bottom side, where the wheels are spinning away from you. I saw a buddy of mine get his thumb pulled through the corner of a cylindrical grinder once. A part he was feeding onto the rest spun out and pulled his thumb between the rest and the corner of the stone. No need to tell you it made a mess of his thumb. I imagine this double sander configuration you have would do similarly if you came down through the top side...it would pull you through the wheels. OUCH!
This is good stuff, you make it look so easy. I'm going to have to make one. Thank you. SEMPER FI
Jerry L sorrells Thanks for the kind comment.
@lewisrazors OK, I have a vertical sander, and a bunch of 1X42's...I like Klingspor, a German made belt...middle of the range on price, not too agressive on the material removal, but very long life. I've used a lot of their abrasives in my jobs as welder and machinist/mechanic on a variety of industrial stuff, so I needed the good quality.
Klingspor sells retail, but has $50 minimum. If you can get any, I think you'll like them. They make belts, disc's, hard wheels, cur-off's.
Hey some good cheap sources of metal for tools are: leaf springs, old files (might cost you a small fortune grinding it smooth) best I've ever had was part of a old blade from a sawmill resaw/bandsaw... Look up how to test metal to see if it is high carbon steel. Easiest way I know is to put to the grinder and look at the quality of the sparks! Best of luck!
Sir: I did this back in the early 1970's. After a few days I had this miserable pain in my right forefinger. The pressure from holding the tang had injured a nerve in my forefinger. Some 50+ years later I still have some pain. I see that you hold the tang the same way I did. Maybe you have just been lucky. BTW, would like to see the finished razor.
I did not develop the pain in the finger, I only used this grinder for a short while before going back to a single wheel grinder. Some if the razors in this older video were rough ground on the double wheel . ua-cam.com/video/PGwxnD_LO0g/v-deo.html
The wheels are spinning so that they push the blade out. If the blade snagged on a belt it would pull it out of the wheels and down toward the table.
Wonderful Lewis. It's a stroke!! You said you no longer use the double grinder. . .How do you get a precise bevel with only one grinding wheel going. I was also wondering what would keep you from feeding water from the top on each wheel to keep the the heat down. . . since both wheels are running down and the excess water could be caught and drained. I love your videos Lewis. I learn something with every one. Thank you so much for sharing!
This looks like a very handy setup. Why do you do more on the single wheel grinder vs the double wheel?
You are right I did a stock removal blade with no forging to show how the grinder worked.
It was annealed O1 tool steel. That is the way it looks when you grind it. A steel like 1095 or W2 would have shown more sparks.
Thank you very much, that is a very encouraging comment.
You have great problem-solving skills and enviable ingenuity. I also like your razors, but I've said that before. The grinder is amazing. Wish I had room in my workshop for one like it. I see you have your share of comments from the immature dits that can only get attention by saying stupid things. I'll bet they make momma proud. *facepalm*
удобный станок,не надо думать с наклоном.
это точно
I shouldnt have watched this video, now Im doomed to building one of these contraptions!!!! I must say thats bad ass.
I do not use mine anymore, I use a single wheel now days. It is a good machine for roughing work, but not very good in the finishing.
@PainlessShadow That was one of the first steps, There is still heat treat, final grinding, and honing before the blade will cut anything.
That sharpener is awesome!!
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I surprised by some of the comments.
GOOD IDEA KEEPING TWO GRINDING WHEELS SIDE BY SIDE .
THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO
R.K Radhakrishnan You are welcome.
Good idea! Great performance!
Борис Анисимов Thank you
@zedafaca123 They are 1725 rpm, ½ horsepower motors. The drive pulleys are 3” inch in diameter.
That is brilliant Lewis!! i noticed there are two separate starts, is there a knob to adjust the distance between grinding wheels? Or do you adjust just one side?
yea just noticed the knob you have on the right...
Mark Ng Here is a video that shows a few more details of the grinder. Double Wheel Grinder Closer Look
So this means the size of the Wheel(s) can be used to create the depth and amount of Hollow Gind desired for a Blade.
I looked up your website. Wow you make some nice blade ! Very skilled. Is it THAT hard to use such a blade for shaving? I spent so much on those disposable and name brand it's not even funny...
Nice! What do you call the BASE that adjusts the machine to get closer/far from the other grinder? And where can I buy one please? Thanks
@lewisrazors Ha! I'm glad you replied, obviously I was joking. I will have to look into the bic straights.
Good idea using 2 Belt Disc Sanders to sharpen the blade ! But, it may need frequent change of belts in production !
Yes, it does go through belts
Thanks ole man, I really appreciate showing me that!
@dougspair The belts are 1X42 belts, the are generic ceramic belts I buy them from various sources, I shop around and try to get my belts when there is a sell going on.
@Veikra There is a short learning curve to using a straight razor, but it is not that hard. There is a lot of information on straight razors at the Straight Razor Place forums
The wheels are spinning so that they are pushing the blade away and down toward the table.
If someone other that me were using the grinder I would put on a guard on the the top side of the the wheels to prevent accidents.
Nothing will change, it will be exactly the same as this, one wheel drags in, the other pushes out, just the other way.
That sounds like a good idea for a blade. I do not take custom orders.
+ tonycstech In reality you get a lot more variabilty for how you hold the blade. Both sides of the grinder cut evenly enough the randomness and inaccuracy is induced by hand holding the work. In a perfect world things could be be better. This is an easy to make and use set up. It is easy to make complicated setups, designing simple clean setups takes a lot of thought.
Your ingenuity is only surpassed by the quality of your work! Are both wheels turning towards the razor? That would mean LH wheel clockwise RH wheel counter clockwise?
Scott Hardock Both wheels are pushing the blade toward the table, the are spinning in different directions.
That is pretty fucking cool! was it sharp enough to cut anything when you finished grinding or did you have to sharpen it with a sharpening stone or something?
It sure would. If I were not the only person to use this grinder I would put a guard on it.
Any chance you could show a little more detail on how it's put together? The parts involved, etc?
+Derek Melton This video shows enough to build your own ua-cam.com/video/w44gGX-xHqY/v-deo.html
that is a really awesome set up. i do have a question though. how hard are these to heat treat after the double hollow grind because i was wondering since the metal is very thin in comparison to the spine do they crack alot or warp during ht.?
thanks
Mark
+ohioedwards I have some heat treat failures, but they are few and far between.
Really nice creative setup. Does the loss of material increase the risk of warps during the heat treat?
Edit - is this pre-hardening?
Yes, it was prior to hardening. The thinner the metal the greater the risk to warping in the heat treat process.
It's still Kewl to see, Thanx for sharing, , ,
+paulie 4x You are very welcome.
geez why so many comment of being dangerous. looks totally safe as long as its in control. driving a car is just as dangerous.
Thank you for the kind words
Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement.
That's a nice rig!
Make your own straights? Wow, impressive. when all done do you get a straight, keen edge?