Agreed. I get mired in this a lot less when I work 'briskly', meaning I'm not hurried but I'm flowing from task to task crisply, decisively, never spending more than a minute or two on a given instrument or aspect of the mix before letting it go, widening my focus, noticing what other thing pings my attention, then shifting to that. Also, taking breaks more often than I want, ideally stepping outside to hear the breeze and the sounds of life, always resets my perceptual baseline. And relentlessly moving forward is critical for me; if I find that I keep wanting to circle back to something I've already addressed more than once, I try to figure out what the deeper issue is, what's actually causing the rub, because at that point what I'm hearing is not a problem, it's a symptom of something larger. I try to always stay grounded in the biggest picture possible, namely 'is this production stirring a feeling in me from the first note, and does it keep me hooked until the last?' Clarity, punch, detail, space... all that stuff is nice, but what I'm after is 'the story', a vibe that grabs hold and won't let go thru the up and downs of the dynamics, the ins and outs of the transitions, and the maybe-no-one-ever-hears-this easter eggs buried all along the way.
Good point, getting a flow is so important isn't it. Yes frequent breaks are also key for me as well. As soon as I feel I'm getting slightly less sharp in my attention or even slightly bogged down I take a break. Sometimes a 5-10 minute one while I check my messages or a longer one, make a drink or have a walk. Continuing to mix when I'm feeling tired or bogged down always gets me worse results and wastes time because I end up having to redo things when I'm fresh. And yes the bigger picture is key, I did a video on that a little while back. Absolutely love your plugins by the way! 👏
What I learned about mixing is that the musician hears what he intended but the engineer hears what he did. Crossing that void is the challenge in making the right mix.
Interesting point! It reminds me of learning to draw, in a way: if you draw what you think you see, you get childish scribbles (at least, I do). The trick is to draw what's actually there.
@chigbungus5257 interesting question. I tend to pre- mix what I intend and play to it...I hope so. Goal is to reduce mixing time as much as possible. As a live mixer, I actually mix to the consumer everytime so I try to bring it to my studio sessions.
This is the exact reason that Jeff ellis requests daw sessions entirely. many times the color on the specific instrument or part was crucial to the entire goal and recreating that is actually working backwards.
In addition to learning the first principles of audio processing and mixing, along with the fundamental tools, this insight-the one of recognising shifting and loss of perspective-has by far been the most important lesson I’ve learned and my three years of mixing. Thank you for illuminating it so plainly for us all 🙏🏽
amazing advice. I produce lofi music and i've been caught out on this many times. Thank you for articulating this so clearly ! This phenomenon is why sometimes i feel like a plugin is making a difference and realize it was on bypass the whole time !
I got you. As a composer myself, it's something I'm constantly aware of. There's this feeling that everything needs to be perfect, which can be overwhelming. That's why some producers choose to work DAWless. Limiting options can prevent getting lost in endless tweaking. Nowadays, I take a more direct approach in my productions. I focus on trusting my decisions instead of overthinking them (even if they prove to be wrong in retrospect). Looking back, it's always easier to identify mistakes. The more you create, the better you become at it. While overthinking and overtweaking only lead to frustration and wasted time.
Yeah, I like to produce electronic music with a digital mixer and a set of hardware synths and effects. The mixer is quite limited and "remembers" just enough to keep my session achievements for the next day. That way, I mix while composing and playing and it has taught me not to get lost in the mentioned rabbit holes of frustration. It really makes you feel like a musician, alive and satisfied. Of course it may not be everybody's thing given the great power of DAWs and plugins but it's good enough to match the sound quality I hear on reference tracks. Whenever I do start up my DAW, I feel like stepping onto a great plain full of mines and rabbit holes.
This matches my experience as a 25 year editor and re-recording mixer. I read a while ago that this is called sensory adaptation. It's how we cope with louder environments, isolate voices in a conversation taking place in a loud enviornment and in general don't go nuts. It took me a similar amount of time to recognize this in myself. My loops are around dialogue lines, which I try to do less now. Getting fresh perspectives is what I do most now. Saves me a lot of time and confusion.
I suffer with this but in an irregular way due to being autistic which can be annoying when mixing and causes me the need to take longer. Sometimes my ears over react to things and occasionally I have this issue where my ear drums over react to all stimuli in a weird way which kinda lags behind transients, so imagine every transient to someones voice, some percussion, or whatever, causing the ear drums to react a few ms afterwards as a kind of 'phantom reaction' to the previous transient. Obviously when the latter thing happens I just need to turn everything right down/off and take a long break or come back to it the next day. Really frustrating, good to be aware of it, but in my case it's difficult to not be as there is no ignoring such things
I've been mixing and mastering for nearly 10 years and never really thought about it like that, but this makes soo much sense. Thank you very much for sharing!
When I get to the point where the only changes on a mix are subtle, I usually stop. Because if I'm at 95-98% of a good mix, I reach a point where I'm more likely to make the mix worse than to fix small things and achieve perfection.
I agree with you . I feel that too. I ve been mixing for 30 years and figured this out lately. I am glad i am not the only one feeling this. Great video
The best method to keep you ears in check is to put a mono plugin on the master bus. Your music will sound different and you will have to adjust the frequencies. When it sounds great, go back to stereo and adjust the frequencies again. Eventually you will get it so they both sound great. Remember, live shows and club music is played in MONO. Getting it to sound pumping, loud, clear etc in mono and stereo is the trick to a good mix.
Another variant of what you are hinting at: You spend some time a/b -ing a track's plugin...only to find out after a few minutes that you are bypassing the plugin on a completely different track. I constantly have to remind myself to take breaks frequently and to set myself a time limit for the amount of what to do in a session or a day.
This seems very wise and insightful to me. It's also consistent with research on perceptual psychoacoustics and auditory event-related potentials. Subscribed. Thanks for sharing and greetings from California. 🤙🏻
One important thing I’ve learnt in my 40 years mixing is context: always play from the start to the end. Yes, sometimes you’ll focus in to segments but to really, to hear the affect in context you have to listen from the beginning. Yes, we will by then be at a different place in the universe and it will sound, well like it does. Tweak away until you can go from start to finish and don’t feel the need to change anything and you good.
Mark thank you for one of the most interesting and insightful posts I’ve watched in a long time. This is the kind of info I’ve been looking for. Just found your channel and now will have to go have a look at your back posts. Wonderful post. Thanks again and cheers!
Im not sure how I wasnt subscribed to this channel. Brilliant. Love your style of oration and explanation - great wisdom and I cant possibly agree with this more
Yes! I’ve made this realization recently, but couldn’t organize my thoughts, or experiences as well as you have. It’s really changed how I mix drums, especially, and I’m so much more satisfied with what’s coming out of the speakers. Everything is breathing more. Thank you!
you were right. i thought it was going to be about level matching. i totally agree. you can't listen to the same thing the same way twice and if you're in a loop examining it THAT closely, you're most likely done working on it. I'm not sure this would make me a better mixer, but it'll sure save a ton of time.
It doesn't only apply to mixing and working in the studio - it's the same with listening (for pleasure or erudition) - the amount of times I have listened to, especially, longer works, especially symphonies (old and new) and they can sound like different pieces of music entirely that I like or dislike depending on where I am in my head at that moment. Great point Mark, thanks!! Every moment is different, to be appreciated for what it is (and since music is all about things unfolding over time, perhaps that is not as esoterically irrelevant to music as you - almost apologetically - imply!)
I think that the biggest challenge for any part of music creation is that you'll (a) never listen to music the way the consumer will and (b) you'll never get to listen to what you've made/done for the very first time.
@@CalTN Your relationship to what you've made makes it impossible to judge it objectively. If you make beats, the best you can do is to make them fast and forget about them. Let them sit for months before you listen to them again. If you then feel something you're on the right track, next step is to get others opinions. Friends that are into the genre you're doing, but doesn't make music themselves are the most valuable.
This is such great advice! I can really relate to this when trying to mix jazz. So much time can be wasted trying things too subtle to make any real difference. It is so much more about the bigger picture and making it feel right on that level.
I really enjoyed this video Mark and concur entirely. This also fits in with the classic trap most of us have fallen into on occasion where we are debating whether or not a few tweaks have improved things or made them worse and then realised the adjustments we've been making were on a bypassed plugin or device. I'm also fascinated by consciousness too and am writing and recording an album about that very topic right now.
For large amounts of Producers this is valuable info and I agree because it's about Objectivity. People listen to music in the context they don't have Critical Listening 15 min MAX to avoid ear fatigue. Chasing competitive loudness is boring to me and I enjoy the healthy dynamic while people don't hear what I hear. Music is Ezoteric and it's all about simplicity and different ornaments that will subliminally change the way of perception, it's called Arrangement and Less is More but sounds have to be presented differently in a way that is unpredictable but not too much. On the other hand it depends on the genre and the most important thing college, new contacts,new friends and networking in general.
I appreciate your approach to talking about mixing, as it is such a subjective and psychological/spiritual process, as much as or moreso than a technical one. Thank you for making this video and talking about the common but not often discussed traps of listening!
@@MatthewSwasta never the less, even if a river changes it's path, it's still that river and it's name doesn't change. Also static never changes because it's static.
@@b00ts4ndc4tsits “that same river” in the literal sense, but the arrangement of particles in that river, both big and small, is completely different from moment to moment. That is the point
I'm a live engineer first......it's a job that makes me listen to what's happening...while it's happening and fixing and balancing on the fly...and when the moment is gone it's gone. Apart from feeling good about it within myself....I only know I did well when people wish to shake my hand as they leave or punch me on the nose as they leave. I find studio work exhausting. There are so many options, so many ways to look at a problem and the result is permanent.
Recording/engineering for 60 years, if I'm not on a deadline, I like to let final mixing or mastering to sit for a day. Come back and listen tomorrow with fresh ears.
Amateur mixer here, but a human… we have many inconsistencies, some are by evolutional design. Consider the sense of smell. When we first detect a new smell, we notice it, but after it has been present for a while we no longer detect it, because it is presumed to not be a threat to us. The smell could still be there but we don’t notice it so much any more, because if it’s not something dangerous enough to cause us to fight or flight, our senses cancel it so that if a new smell presents itself, we can easily notice that one instead. The audio experience you talk about could stem from a similar primal programming. Great video and thanks for sharing your experience.
Really fascinating perspective. This chimes with my own experience. When I've been mixing my own music, and I have the time. What I've found myself doing is that as the mix gets settled, and changes become subtle. I work in ever shorter bursts. And leave longer in between listening sessions. Maybe even multiple days or a week just before I settle on a mix. When I'm at that stage is also when I will bring the mix to different listening contexts (into a mastering studio, if I can). And also ask a trusted person to listen to A/B versions. Not so much for suggestions. But more to see if, as you say, they can't discern any appreciable difference at all. The fact the material is new to them, gives them a very valuable perspective (the Beginners Mind Shunryu Suzuki spoke of as being so important in creative work). If they can't hear a differeence, I know I'm only wasting time going any further in that direction. Doesn't mean it will be the best possible mix, but it is the best mix in the area of search I took it. On making subtle changes with intention, what I find helps is dialing it in a bit heavy-handed first so I can clearly hear it, tune it, then back it off to taste. When dialling in a guitar amp, reverb or pedals, I'll do that too.
The angle you took made me think of this: one of the easiest paths I've found to a state of presence (in the proverbial "now" as Tolle thinks of it) has been hearing. By focusing all of your awareness into the one sense and then removing word definitions from what you hear - thinking of it only as audio coming from a single source, like one pair of speakers producing ALL the sound in the world - you can hear what becomes a different sound. Sometimes a melody will tumble out of the city traffic but it's gonna just sound like cars until you internally define it all as one giant polyrhythmic multitimbral soup. Stay in that zone long enough and it can become almost psychedelic, but if you use it for mixing and act like you're hearing one big brick of sound it can afford a truly different way of hearing which may accentuate different aspects.
A visual allegory would be to look at the world as if it's one of those seeing eye images from the 90s, seeing it as blocks of color, shapes, light and dark. Sensually, you'd feel ALL your skin at once. Do that one while you have your eyes closed and breathe meditation style as you focus on your skin and you're liable to begin feeling energy movement.
Thank you for this, I've nearly got to your thoughts on my own recently but you have led me down that road much quicker so thank you for this. time and time again I've ruined compositions by piling on loads of plugins then the next day you play the original recording and it's so much better. Have restricted myself to 3 or 4 plugins.
I’m very new to mixing my own music. Just released my first song two weeks ago. It sounds fairly reasonable. I can hear mistakes of course, but you gotta get that first one out. In the weeks leading into tjevfirst song I spent waaay to many hours of listening/editing, questioning if things were sounding different. Rookie mistake I know now. It’s hard to put to words, but what you’re saying makes perfect sense. Now getting ready for my second release, I’m trying to listen, edit/mix, move on. It’s easy to get lost in the details. What I’ve found is that when I hear it the next day, it does sound balanced and in tune for the most part, not what I thought I heard the day before. I’ll make note of the time stamps and what instrument or vocal needs to be adjusted. I now have to force myself to step away for breaks, and after a few hours, put everything down. I’m a green bean to mixing, so thanks for these talks.
absoluitely! also i swear i'll make a pretty good track then i'll ruin it lol and find myself going back like 30 or 40 new version saves in FL Studio and STILL can't get the damn thing right lol some tracks (according to Fl Studio Anyhow) i've spent lol 80 90 hours on!!! and still sounds like dog shit lol 😂 😂
Since a lot of things are very subjective and a matter of taste, I like to make several mixes. One for me, one for my girlfriend, one for my best friend and some for those who have certain preferences. After a few weeks I listen to it again and am always surprised. It sounds banal at first, but a professional ear wash gave me back my stereo image🎧. A little humor is always good😀. Best regards Vincent
omg i love this! this can dove tail to the 6db technique that many people dont know "if you are going to adjust volume always +6 or -6, being the reasonable amount "reason". anything less and you are just being shifty (not absolute but..) the same with all these shifty antsy moves
Yes this is the 80/20 rule, but what is better ? Degrading is often more enjoyable in lot of scenario, just like any non linear process. And better can be different for everybody. I found the answer (or part of the answer) with Manny Marroquin philosophy : He's not mixing with his ears he's mixing listening to emotions.
Mixing listening to emotions, great phrase. I think lots of audio engineers forget, or don't realise, that their job has a strong effect on the emotion of the music they are working on and, just like a musician, can shape the music and "find the groove", just in different ways.
@@kimjunkmoon2298 yes that's why he's the best mixing engineer in the world (in Pop/Hip Hop at least), It's the problem of our world societies/cultures that is highly focus on science and not magic (emotions/feeling/creativity), It's like yin and yang you gotta master both.
I've found that when I'm making changes in the mix that a casual listener/client won't be able to perceive, I'm aiming for the last 1% of the mix(It's egotism, I just want what "I" want). Deciding if the compressor should be shaving 0.3dB or 0.4dB off of the snare, means the snare is 90-99% there. The same goes for the entire mix.
So very minimal electronic is music a blank canvas for our minds to get creative with. Because there is so much repetition, it starts creating it's own versions. And the subtle changes feel super trippy because the brain can't differentiate between its own subtle changes and those of the music itself.
I have a musician coming over to my home studio at the weekend and I will be recording them play a flute, what would be the better way of setting up some mic's to capture it?
One of the greatest challenges if you mix records you've written, produced and recorded, is to disconnect from the material to mix objectively (impossible?).
good video, mate. feel free to go as esoteric as you want. philosophy of mixing music is fascinating. also, how often to take breaks while mixing? do you have a maximum amount of time you'll let yourself work on something??
@Heron Island Studio for me and what i do musically it should always be different also long as you like what you feel rather then hearing it thinking about what you like instead of feeling what you like just pay attention to freq on your mix seeing your using buddha i will quote something Bruce lee says (Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.)
Mixing is not the right word. placing objects in an environment in relation to each other (painting) try mixing while ur eyes watch moving pictures so u get a 'space' view on the sounds i watch in the woods walking or city walking or onboard racing stuff videos on youtube (like old MTV music videos) i guess the point is when u watch stuff u stop overthinking and start to "see" the soundstage picture thing.. for me it improves massive the decision process, everything falls naturaly into place so i t stop thinking in values and curves
Look into psychoacoustics. It’s exactly the science behind what you are describing. It’s also why no headphones are the perfect headphones for anyone or everyone.
constructive critique from my personal point of view (maybe total fine for the majority)....i'm often just listening and not watching youtube videos, especially content like this, so the quiet text passages are annoying for me, maybe add another voice (ai) to them
I agree, I use UA-cam to passively listen and learn and not to have to stop multitasking to read. Even just reading the slides in VO would be a huge improvement.
I agree. Its great to know about even as a beginner. But I belive a beginner will have to go down a few thousand rabbit holes just to make sure what actually is a “perception rabbit hole”, and what is lack of experience/skill in trying to get an actual sound the way its envisioned.
Agreed. I get mired in this a lot less when I work 'briskly', meaning I'm not hurried but I'm flowing from task to task crisply, decisively, never spending more than a minute or two on a given instrument or aspect of the mix before letting it go, widening my focus, noticing what other thing pings my attention, then shifting to that. Also, taking breaks more often than I want, ideally stepping outside to hear the breeze and the sounds of life, always resets my perceptual baseline. And relentlessly moving forward is critical for me; if I find that I keep wanting to circle back to something I've already addressed more than once, I try to figure out what the deeper issue is, what's actually causing the rub, because at that point what I'm hearing is not a problem, it's a symptom of something larger. I try to always stay grounded in the biggest picture possible, namely 'is this production stirring a feeling in me from the first note, and does it keep me hooked until the last?' Clarity, punch, detail, space... all that stuff is nice, but what I'm after is 'the story', a vibe that grabs hold and won't let go thru the up and downs of the dynamics, the ins and outs of the transitions, and the maybe-no-one-ever-hears-this easter eggs buried all along the way.
Good point, getting a flow is so important isn't it. Yes frequent breaks are also key for me as well. As soon as I feel I'm getting slightly less sharp in my attention or even slightly bogged down I take a break. Sometimes a 5-10 minute one while I check my messages or a longer one, make a drink or have a walk. Continuing to mix when I'm feeling tired or bogged down always gets me worse results and wastes time because I end up having to redo things when I'm fresh. And yes the bigger picture is key, I did a video on that a little while back. Absolutely love your plugins by the way! 👏
What I learned about mixing is that the musician hears what he intended but the engineer hears what he did. Crossing that void is the challenge in making the right mix.
What if you are both the musician and the engineer lol
Interesting point! It reminds me of learning to draw, in a way: if you draw what you think you see, you get childish scribbles (at least, I do). The trick is to draw what's actually there.
@chigbungus5257 interesting question. I tend to pre- mix what I intend and play to it...I hope so. Goal is to reduce mixing time as much as possible. As a live mixer, I actually mix to the consumer everytime so I try to bring it to my studio sessions.
no one cares about your opinion
This is the exact reason that Jeff ellis requests daw sessions entirely. many times the color on the specific instrument or part was crucial to the entire goal and recreating that is actually working backwards.
I like these mixing videos that don't always focus on the technical side , the mindset is equally important ask Mike Tyson.
Yeah we should, he s very smart🤣
@@gibson2623 about mindset over the technical moves. He is an incredibly smart boxing technician.
Yes, but you can’t bite your DAW.
Hhis last album was a banger.
Ah yes, Mike Tyson, a man made famous by his mixing skills
In addition to learning the first principles of audio processing and mixing, along with the fundamental tools, this insight-the one of recognising shifting and loss of perspective-has by far been the most important lesson I’ve learned and my three years of mixing. Thank you for illuminating it so plainly for us all 🙏🏽
Great advice. Make the changes with fresh ears, be bold, trust your gut, move to the next step. Don’t get bogged down in the minutiae.
amazing advice. I produce lofi music and i've been caught out on this many times. Thank you for articulating this so clearly ! This phenomenon is why sometimes i feel like a plugin is making a difference and realize it was on bypass the whole time !
I got you. As a composer myself, it's something I'm constantly aware of. There's this feeling that everything needs to be perfect, which can be overwhelming. That's why some producers choose to work DAWless. Limiting options can prevent getting lost in endless tweaking.
Nowadays, I take a more direct approach in my productions. I focus on trusting my decisions instead of overthinking them (even if they prove to be wrong in retrospect). Looking back, it's always easier to identify mistakes. The more you create, the better you become at it. While overthinking and overtweaking only lead to frustration and wasted time.
Aiming "perfection" kills your creativity, thus leading to frustration. I learn to let it go, imperfection sounds natural and intuitive. Cheers;-)
Yeah, I like to produce electronic music with a digital mixer and a set of hardware synths and effects. The mixer is quite limited and "remembers" just enough to keep my session achievements for the next day. That way, I mix while composing and playing and it has taught me not to get lost in the mentioned rabbit holes of frustration. It really makes you feel like a musician, alive and satisfied. Of course it may not be everybody's thing given the great power of DAWs and plugins but it's good enough to match the sound quality I hear on reference tracks. Whenever I do start up my DAW, I feel like stepping onto a great plain full of mines and rabbit holes.
This matches my experience as a 25 year editor and re-recording mixer. I read a while ago that this is called sensory adaptation. It's how we cope with louder environments, isolate voices in a conversation taking place in a loud enviornment and in general don't go nuts. It took me a similar amount of time to recognize this in myself. My loops are around dialogue lines, which I try to do less now. Getting fresh perspectives is what I do most now. Saves me a lot of time and confusion.
I suffer with this but in an irregular way due to being autistic which can be annoying when mixing and causes me the need to take longer. Sometimes my ears over react to things and occasionally I have this issue where my ear drums over react to all stimuli in a weird way which kinda lags behind transients, so imagine every transient to someones voice, some percussion, or whatever, causing the ear drums to react a few ms afterwards as a kind of 'phantom reaction' to the previous transient. Obviously when the latter thing happens I just need to turn everything right down/off and take a long break or come back to it the next day.
Really frustrating, good to be aware of it, but in my case it's difficult to not be as there is no ignoring such things
thank you so much, this video just helped me finish a mix I've been struggling on and overthinking for a month now.
I've been mixing and mastering for nearly 10 years and never really thought about it like that, but this makes soo much sense.
Thank you very much for sharing!
When I get to the point where the only changes on a mix are subtle, I usually stop. Because if I'm at 95-98% of a good mix, I reach a point where I'm more likely to make the mix worse than to fix small things and achieve perfection.
Very interesting. And no zoom jumps or distracting background music makes listening to your ideas very enjoyable.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom! This truly resonates with me.
I agree with you . I feel that too. I ve been mixing for 30 years and figured this out lately. I am glad i am not the only one feeling this. Great video
I especially loved the esoteric side
Thanks, maybe I'll do some more like that.
What you just stated really makes sense. I've had similar thoughts, but could never nail it down. THANK YOU!
The best method to keep you ears in check is to put a mono plugin on the master bus. Your music will sound different and you will have to adjust the frequencies. When it sounds great, go back to stereo and adjust the frequencies again. Eventually you will get it so they both sound great. Remember, live shows and club music is played in MONO. Getting it to sound pumping, loud, clear etc in mono and stereo is the trick to a good mix.
This is the real mixing lesson I was looking for!
Another variant of what you are hinting at: You spend some time a/b -ing a track's plugin...only to find out after a few minutes that you are bypassing the plugin on a completely different track. I constantly have to remind myself to take breaks frequently and to set myself a time limit for the amount of what to do in a session or a day.
It's not easy to explain these complex ideas. You did it so easily. I really learned a lot. Thank you, Sir 🎉
I haven't read any of the coments and have only watched 3mins and this is already the best video I've seen in a while.
Experience the moment. Sound seems to be the main sense that is moslty descriptive of 'now'.
How about now? Lovely to see folks that experience the world similarly. Good luck friend!
Thanks
This seems very wise and insightful to me. It's also consistent with research on perceptual psychoacoustics and auditory event-related potentials. Subscribed. Thanks for sharing and greetings from California. 🤙🏻
Cheers
I really enjoy this type of video that deals with the most important approaches to mixing and mastering, thanks for doing these!
One important thing I’ve learnt in my 40 years mixing is context: always play from the start to the end. Yes, sometimes you’ll focus in to segments but to really, to hear the affect in context you have to listen from the beginning. Yes, we will by then be at a different place in the universe and it will sound, well like it does. Tweak away until you can go from start to finish and don’t feel the need to change anything and you good.
This is the best stuff, keeps you centered and sane. Will implement it today.
Thanks for the video!
@@OneManDancing Cheers
Mark thank you for one of the most interesting and insightful posts I’ve watched in a long time. This is the kind of info I’ve been looking for. Just found your channel and now will have to go have a look at your back posts. Wonderful post. Thanks again and cheers!
Yea I can see your point, that's really interesting. I will keep this in mind when mixing
Im not sure how I wasnt subscribed to this channel. Brilliant. Love your style of oration and explanation - great wisdom and I cant possibly agree with this more
Yes! I’ve made this realization recently, but couldn’t organize my thoughts, or experiences as well as you have. It’s really changed how I mix drums, especially, and I’m so much more satisfied with what’s coming out of the speakers. Everything is breathing more. Thank you!
you were right. i thought it was going to be about level matching. i totally agree. you can't listen to the same thing the same way twice and if you're in a loop examining it THAT closely, you're most likely done working on it. I'm not sure this would make me a better mixer, but it'll sure save a ton of time.
Pure. Gold. Many thanks!
what a nice way to explain Quantum Physics !!! 😄😉🤣 great video thanks
It doesn't only apply to mixing and working in the studio - it's the same with listening (for pleasure or erudition) - the amount of times I have listened to, especially, longer works, especially symphonies (old and new) and they can sound like different pieces of music entirely that I like or dislike depending on where I am in my head at that moment. Great point Mark, thanks!! Every moment is different, to be appreciated for what it is (and since music is all about things unfolding over time, perhaps that is not as esoterically irrelevant to music as you - almost apologetically - imply!)
I think that the biggest challenge for any part of music creation is that you'll (a) never listen to music the way the consumer will and (b) you'll never get to listen to what you've made/done for the very first time.
Part B hits hard in a very bittersweet way.
@@CalTN Your relationship to what you've made makes it impossible to judge it objectively. If you make beats, the best you can do is to make them fast and forget about them. Let them sit for months before you listen to them again. If you then feel something you're on the right track, next step is to get others opinions. Friends that are into the genre you're doing, but doesn't make music themselves are the most valuable.
@@domgirard4095 You didn't get it
Impermanence is all around us yet rather than embrace the majesty of this we toil to convince our selves otherwise.
We mix for ourself. Not for listeners. Conscious and unconscious bias. Thank for sharing.
Solid advice, geez.
There it go - message!
This is such great advice! I can really relate to this when trying to mix jazz. So much time can be wasted trying things too subtle to make any real difference. It is so much more about the bigger picture and making it feel right on that level.
I really enjoyed this video Mark and concur entirely. This also fits in with the classic trap most of us have fallen into on occasion where we are debating whether or not a few tweaks have improved things or made them worse and then realised the adjustments we've been making were on a bypassed plugin or device.
I'm also fascinated by consciousness too and am writing and recording an album about that very topic right now.
profound stuff
thank you, that was really insightful. Maybe you could suggest some ways of using or combating that kind of phenomenon
For large amounts of Producers this is valuable info and I agree because it's about Objectivity. People listen to music in the context they don't have Critical Listening 15 min MAX to avoid ear fatigue.
Chasing competitive loudness is boring to me and I enjoy the healthy dynamic while people don't hear what I hear. Music is Ezoteric and it's all about simplicity and different ornaments that will subliminally change the way of perception, it's called Arrangement and Less is More but sounds have to be presented differently in a way that is unpredictable but not too much. On the other hand it depends on the genre and the most important thing college, new contacts,new friends and networking in general.
I appreciate your approach to talking about mixing, as it is such a subjective and psychological/spiritual process, as much as or moreso than a technical one. Thank you for making this video and talking about the common but not often discussed traps of listening!
You can never step in the same river twice...
Grey Zone is a brilliant concept 📝
Yes you can, a river isn't the water but the path it takes.
@@b00ts4ndc4ts which is in a state of constant change because the force of the water moving the path...nothing is static. Nothing...
@@MatthewSwasta never the less, even if a river changes it's path, it's still that river and it's name doesn't change.
Also static never changes because it's static.
@@b00ts4ndc4ts in some sense
@@b00ts4ndc4tsits “that same river” in the literal sense, but the arrangement of particles in that river, both big and small, is completely different from moment to moment. That is the point
Thanks for great insight🤝
Brilliant. Just Brilliant !!!
I'm a live engineer first......it's a job that makes me listen to what's happening...while it's happening and fixing and balancing on the fly...and when the moment is gone it's gone. Apart from feeling good about it within myself....I only know I did well when people wish to shake my hand as they leave or punch me on the nose as they leave. I find studio work exhausting. There are so many options, so many ways to look at a problem and the result is permanent.
Being able to appreciate this and similar concepts is a massive positive - great video 👏
Recording/engineering for 60 years, if I'm not on a deadline, I like to let final mixing or mastering to sit for a day. Come back and listen tomorrow with fresh ears.
Amateur mixer here, but a human… we have many inconsistencies, some are by evolutional design. Consider the sense of smell. When we first detect a new smell, we notice it, but after it has been present for a while we no longer detect it, because it is presumed to not be a threat to us. The smell could still be there but we don’t notice it so much any more, because if it’s not something dangerous enough to cause us to fight or flight, our senses cancel it so that if a new smell presents itself, we can easily notice that one instead. The audio experience you talk about could stem from a similar primal programming. Great video and thanks for sharing your experience.
This is absolutely true
Really fascinating perspective. This chimes with my own experience. When I've been mixing my own music, and I have the time. What I've found myself doing is that as the mix gets settled, and changes become subtle. I work in ever shorter bursts. And leave longer in between listening sessions. Maybe even multiple days or a week just before I settle on a mix. When I'm at that stage is also when I will bring the mix to different listening contexts (into a mastering studio, if I can). And also ask a trusted person to listen to A/B versions. Not so much for suggestions. But more to see if, as you say, they can't discern any appreciable difference at all. The fact the material is new to them, gives them a very valuable perspective (the Beginners Mind Shunryu Suzuki spoke of as being so important in creative work). If they can't hear a differeence, I know I'm only wasting time going any further in that direction. Doesn't mean it will be the best possible mix, but it is the best mix in the area of search I took it. On making subtle changes with intention, what I find helps is dialing it in a bit heavy-handed first so I can clearly hear it, tune it, then back it off to taste. When dialling in a guitar amp, reverb or pedals, I'll do that too.
The angle you took made me think of this: one of the easiest paths I've found to a state of presence (in the proverbial "now" as Tolle thinks of it) has been hearing. By focusing all of your awareness into the one sense and then removing word definitions from what you hear - thinking of it only as audio coming from a single source, like one pair of speakers producing ALL the sound in the world - you can hear what becomes a different sound. Sometimes a melody will tumble out of the city traffic but it's gonna just sound like cars until you internally define it all as one giant polyrhythmic multitimbral soup. Stay in that zone long enough and it can become almost psychedelic, but if you use it for mixing and act like you're hearing one big brick of sound it can afford a truly different way of hearing which may accentuate different aspects.
A visual allegory would be to look at the world as if it's one of those seeing eye images from the 90s, seeing it as blocks of color, shapes, light and dark. Sensually, you'd feel ALL your skin at once. Do that one while you have your eyes closed and breathe meditation style as you focus on your skin and you're liable to begin feeling energy movement.
Thank you for this, I've nearly got to your thoughts on my own recently but you have led me down that road much quicker so thank you for this. time and time again I've ruined compositions by piling on loads of plugins then the next day you play the original recording and it's so much better. Have restricted myself to 3 or 4 plugins.
I’m very new to mixing my own music.
Just released my first song two weeks ago.
It sounds fairly reasonable. I can hear mistakes of course, but you gotta get that first one out.
In the weeks leading into tjevfirst song I spent waaay to many hours of listening/editing, questioning if things were sounding different.
Rookie mistake I know now.
It’s hard to put to words, but what you’re saying makes perfect sense.
Now getting ready for my second release, I’m trying to listen, edit/mix, move on.
It’s easy to get lost in the details.
What I’ve found is that when I hear it the next day, it does sound balanced and in tune for the most part, not what I thought I heard the day before. I’ll make note of the time stamps and what instrument or vocal needs to be adjusted.
I now have to force myself to step away for breaks, and after a few hours, put everything down.
I’m a green bean to mixing, so thanks for these talks.
This is what i call being a fast musician
I've always found that everything sounds completely different the second someone else comes in to listen.
absoluitely! also i swear i'll make a pretty good track then i'll ruin it lol and find myself going back like 30 or 40 new version saves in FL Studio and STILL can't get the damn thing right lol some tracks (according to Fl Studio Anyhow) i've spent lol 80 90 hours on!!! and still sounds like dog shit lol 😂 😂
Sounds very Vipassana (I practice daily) - well done! I shall reflect on this in my next mixing session this eve
Since a lot of things are very subjective and a matter of taste, I like to make several mixes. One for me, one for my girlfriend, one for my best friend and some for those who have certain preferences. After a few weeks I listen to it again and am always surprised. It sounds banal at first, but a professional ear wash gave me back my stereo image🎧. A little humor is always good😀. Best regards Vincent
omg i love this! this can dove tail to the 6db technique that many people dont know "if you are going to adjust volume always +6 or -6, being the reasonable amount "reason". anything less and you are just being shifty (not absolute but..)
the same with all these shifty antsy moves
Thanks.
I think this is why we need to mix quickly and not get too zoomed in. Using the pomadoro method of 20 minute timers
Great advice.
What the heck is going on with your dialogue audio Mr ultimate mixing guru
Excellent, thank you 🙂
10:10 IMO if a careful A/B comparison is needed, the listener will never know nor care, so go for the option that has least processing and move on.
super helpful. thank you!
Yes this is the 80/20 rule, but what is better ? Degrading is often more enjoyable in lot of scenario, just like any non linear process.
And better can be different for everybody.
I found the answer (or part of the answer) with Manny Marroquin philosophy : He's not mixing with his ears he's mixing listening to emotions.
Mixing listening to emotions, great phrase. I think lots of audio engineers forget, or don't realise, that their job has a strong effect on the emotion of the music they are working on and, just like a musician, can shape the music and "find the groove", just in different ways.
@@kimjunkmoon2298 yes that's why he's the best mixing engineer in the world (in Pop/Hip Hop at least), It's the problem of our world societies/cultures that is highly focus on science and not magic (emotions/feeling/creativity), It's like yin and yang you gotta master both.
Thank you
Change is here to stay
For the algo - good stuff!
I've found that when I'm making changes in the mix that a casual listener/client won't be able to perceive, I'm aiming for the last 1% of the mix(It's egotism, I just want what "I" want). Deciding if the compressor should be shaving 0.3dB or 0.4dB off of the snare, means the snare is 90-99% there. The same goes for the entire mix.
So very minimal electronic is music a blank canvas for our minds to get creative with. Because there is so much repetition, it starts creating it's own versions. And the subtle changes feel super trippy because the brain can't differentiate between its own subtle changes and those of the music itself.
The thing with these sound engineers is, they've been training to be buddist monks this whole time and didn't even know it.
I have a musician coming over to my home studio at the weekend and I will be recording them play a flute, what would be the better way of setting up some mic's to capture it?
Thanks. Best/Mathias
One of the greatest challenges if you mix records you've written, produced and recorded, is to disconnect from the material to mix objectively (impossible?).
Yes. Hand it to a mix engineer. lol. But seriously I think it is possible to detach from it long enough to get an objective opinion.
The gate on your voice is more annoying than the background noise
dope
good video, mate. feel free to go as esoteric as you want. philosophy of mixing music is fascinating. also, how often to take breaks while mixing? do you have a maximum amount of time you'll let yourself work on something??
🔥
@Heron Island Studio for me and what i do musically it should always be different also long as you like what you feel rather then hearing it thinking about what you like instead of feeling what you like just pay attention to freq on your mix seeing your using buddha i will quote something Bruce lee says (Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.)
🏆💎
guys! check out david hurons "sweet anticipation - music and the psychology of expectation"
Mix fast ...don't get caught in the 8 bar loop
Mixing is not the right word.
placing objects in an environment in relation to each other (painting)
try mixing while ur eyes watch moving pictures so u get a 'space' view on the sounds
i watch in the woods walking or city walking or onboard racing stuff videos on youtube (like old MTV music videos)
i guess the point is when u watch stuff u stop overthinking and start to "see" the soundstage picture thing..
for me it improves massive the decision process, everything falls naturaly into place so i t stop thinking in values and curves
Look into psychoacoustics. It’s exactly the science behind what you are describing. It’s also why no headphones are the perfect headphones for anyone or everyone.
Make an edit, is it better or just different? It can also be different and better…
constructive critique from my personal point of view (maybe total fine for the majority)....i'm often just listening and not watching youtube videos, especially content like this, so the quiet text passages are annoying for me, maybe add another voice (ai) to them
I agree, I use UA-cam to passively listen and learn and not to have to stop multitasking to read. Even just reading the slides in VO would be a huge improvement.
Is to remove wax from ears.
Oh yes.
Don't loop anything.. it's a plague in music. Listen to the whole song and everything in context, not a loop.
I agree. Its great to know about even as a beginner. But I belive a beginner will have to go down a few thousand rabbit holes just to make sure what actually is a “perception rabbit hole”, and what is lack of experience/skill in trying to get an actual sound the way its envisioned.
Great advice.
Thank You