No. With whatever they are doing, the TV franchise will forever have the problem, that everything in season 6-8 is canon to the show. I cant do head canons.
@@jaimelannister1797 For the plot of HOTD none. For the athmosphere of the world? A lot. Me knowing what it leads to just makes me not interested. Nothing wrong if its different for you, but for me its just like that :/
It'll probably be fine, Fire and Blood is great source material and they aren't going off script yet. But early Game of Thrones set the bar too high I think before a truly terrible finale, I would be surprised if the Season 8 memes stop. People want Winds of Winter above all else.
They've already decided to introduce new characters and stuff, and some of the casting choices makes it clear that they are abandoning certain plot lines. So I would say they are off the script already
It started cause they casted some white characters as black (don't chew me out as a racist just here what I have to say) Spoilers!! The show has decided to make the Velaryons black. In the book, Rhaenyra Targaeyen is married to Laenor Velaryon, but because he's gay, she cheats on him and has three illegitimate kids. People suspect that they are bastards, but can't prove it. But if Laenor is black and Rhaenyra just keeps having white kids then it would become pretty obvious that she's cheating. So either the show has to make Laenor straight or make Rhaenyra faithful. The end result is Rhaenyra's three eldest children, who play a vital role in the Dance of Dragons, not being born
@@GallowglassVT The guy they casted for Corlys Velaryon is black (and it appears that all of the Velaryon's are black in the show). This firstly contradicts the books because all of the Velaryon's have traditional Valyrian looks like the Targaryens (white people with white hair and purple eyes). And secondly, this causes a problem with one of the plotlines about whether Laenor Valaryon's children are really his or Harwin Strong's, as all of the children have brown hair and eyes rather than the traditional Valyrian white hair and purple eyes. This plotline can't work in the show's version because....genetics are still a thing in the fictional universe of Game of Thrones.
I absolutely hope that HOTD is good, and I can literally never have enough Fantasy media in my life, but I am kind of concerned. I think a primary reason Game of Thrones was so successful was that GRRM utilized his skills as a former TV screenwriter to write the source material. Making a TV show based on a book series is a lot easier when that book series was written by a former screenwriter who structured the books a lot like a TV show already. But HOTD is based on Martin's supplemental "history" books rather than the novels, and so its source material isn't paced or structured like a TV show at all. Which doesn't mean it will be bad, but I do think it will be more inherently challenging to adapt this story than it was adapting ASOAIF.
This explains why he is so passionate about over seeing a lot of news shows and is prioritizing shows about Westros rather than Winds specifically because he was a screenwriter himself. He probably still has that screenwriting passion in him and wants to continue overseeing shows rather than write Winds
@@David-gj9qr Exactly! I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and I came to the conclusion that he should’ve paused Winds and taken control of the show based on what he had already decided
Genuinely I can’t see many reasons why this isn’t going to be good (at least). Solid cast, excellent source material, major fans helming the show as showrunners, and Martin himself has praised what he’s seen of the show. Game of Thrones is still a massive IP and it has the potential to be amazing
Personally season 8 hate aside. I still believe the first 4 seasons of the show are some of the best tv seasons of all time and some of the best book to screen adaptations done. Of course after that it went downhill but I’ll give House of the Dragon a shot I expect it to be solid overall just seeing them add more swords to the Iron Throne makes me feel like there’s more love for the books in this crew. Ultimately I want The Winds of Winter even if he never finishes it I want to at least have answers to the cliffhangers set up in Dance or even just the Battle chapters that Martin said he cut from Dance.
No dand, a diverse set of writers, George observed the whole production. It will be better than most will expect but not as great as the first 4 seasons of got. It will be watchable television. Sadly George doesn't care about winds. He is more interested in finishing that anthology about house targaryen.
The people who worked on the earlier seasons of GoT are all present; George is involved again; the people responsible for GoT downfall are nowhere to be seen - AND you have one of the materials to source from? PLUS it has the later GoT seasons budget but the earlier GoT seasons work force? Ye, I'm expecting this show to be the greatest show of all time.
Okay so in French they have a proverb that is roughly this is english "never sell the skin of the bear before killing it". Wich means that we cannot leave so pessimistic and so sure of the failure of the series. I think HBO learned some bitter lessons from Season 8 and is keen to maintain its reputation as an EXCELLENT series server above all else. They canceled the previous spinoff that cost them $30 million because it wasn't good ENOUGH for them. If House of the Dragon has been validated in my opinion it is because it is very good. Moreover, even Martin loves the episodes he has seen (edited but without special effects and other). As for the linguist (the one who speaks the language of Valyria) he declared that it was the best thing he ever participated in. So let's keep hope.
That's a cool metaphor France, although "never sell the skin of the bear before killing it" in English sounds more like don't be too optimistic of success, because bears are bloody hard to find and kill. I do agree with your reasoning though, and, seven hells, the cancelled Long Night cost 30 million?! I figured something was wrong since they left it unaired, but that could be because there's no VFX added. I always thought that premise was unwise for a show, but I'm so curious to see what they did with it.
@@MagusMarquillin I only add the number that i saw and heard on different medias :) but it's really mean a lot about HBO politics with TV shows who's different from Netflix one
In german we have a proverb called "A milkmaid's calculation" (Milchmädchenrechnung) and it's basically the same. The moral is: "Don't plan what you're gonna do with the money until you have it." Story goes like this: A Maid goes to the market to sell milk. On her way to the market she's planning what she's gonna do with the money she's going to earn by selling the milk. (Buy eggs, hatch chicks, have chicken, sell eggs, earn more money to finally buy that new dress she wants.) Then she falls over and spills all the milk. A lil offtopic, but still a fun comparison to the french one ^^
Has an IP have such a turnaround? I can see a really great show getting a middling audience, but I cannot imagine capturing that lightning in a bottle once it is lost. And even if they did, would it attract the audience it did before? I don't believe it will, even if the show deserves it.
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 I don't think so man. I know a ton of people who were not Star Wars fans before Mandalorian and are now really into it.
I don't think it's fair to go into this show expecting it to "revolutionize television" like game of thrones did. Honestly, as long as it's a great and riveting story, what more could you ask for?
The book was amazing so I hope they stick to it. I think it will and they have learned their lesson from S8. I think the targaryen lore is amazing and show can definitely be a great one
@@unfairjarl the story of HotD covers half of the history book called Fire and Blood, it's about 350 pages. The reason why people are unsure is because the writers have to create their own scenes and dialogues, in contrast to earlier seasons of GoT where all scenes were fully and completely written in books.
A Song of Ice and Fire has always held a special place in my heart because I watched the show first (came in mid-season 2) but then absolutely DEVOURED the books. They were the catalyst for me getting back into reading for fun after being burned out on books by college/grad school. I have also even really enjoyed tangential offerings that offer a deeper look at the setting like World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood. I feel bad for Martin because (although I am nowhere near his skill or talent level) I've been plugging away on trying to write my own first novel and it's hard work. I think it's easy to forget that for most of his career GRRM hasn't really been much of a novelist. Most of his back catalog (which I also really enjoy and appreciate) is sci-fi short stories, stand-alone novels, or screenwriting. All of that is WAY DIFFERENT than trying to do something so interconnected and big as A Song of Ice and Fire. I want to read Winds of Winter more than I want other stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other stuff, too. I also really think that even if it hits a lot of the same notes that didn't work well in Season 8, in Martin's hands with space and time to develop motive and reasoning what happened could be very similar to Season 8 but also still very good. So, House of the Dragon isn't something I'm super pumped about, but I bet it will be something I still watch and enjoy.
GRRM was friends with Ryan Condal prior to HOTD being a thing, and personally picked him for his knowledge of the source material. For that reason I trust in him.
@@wackyswacky1374 this seems different though. D&D read the books because they wanted to make the show, and sought George out. Meanwhile Condal first read the books as just a fan in the early 2000s, and years later met George as a fan and became friends with him. Then GRRM asked him to work on the show due to his knowledge of the source material. Source: GRRM on Condal’s podcast
@@jaimelannister1797 Every showrunner now says they are a fan of the source material, and then we see the show and it's a completely original story that is worse in every way. This happens every time.
The thing that killed GoT was having showrunners who didn't really give a shit after adapting ASOS, and who weren't skilled enough to finish the story with just guidelines for the story (though I also have heard that they just ignored the guidelines GRRM gave them). If HotD has showrunners and writers who actually care, then it will probably be pretty good, if not great. It even has the potential to be as good as GoT at its peak. As for me, I never stopped being a fan. I'll be there when/if the next books come out, and I'll try out the shows if they look interesting. Though I do hope that HotD helps clear out some of the cynicism in the fanbase (though Winds coming out would be even better in that regard).
i think anything less than exceptional will be seen as trash. even if it's mediocre to good people will be so annoyed over the whole situation it will dragged to hell and back while on fire and chewed on by leaches .
I am actually in the middle of re-watching game of thrones from start to finish and I don't plan on skipping the last 2 seasons... Because in all honesty, they are not nearly as bad as the internet seems to have made them out to be. I'm not an idiot. I can obviously see that the writing quality and aspects like pacing, sufferred in those last two seasons compared to what the original 1-5/6 seasons achieved. However, people are so quick to shrug off the fact that game of thrones was for starters, way more than just its penultimate seasons. It's a once-in-a=lifetime exquisitely crafted adventure through an immersive, compelling, gritty, dark, yet very human fantasy world... One which captivated its viewers for nigh on 10 years straight with its absolutely peerless writing, incredible actors, superb cinematography and locations portrayed on-screen, and all packaged in a neat, bloody, slightly salacious but not too salacious in my opinion, package that at least I ate up like candy on Christmas. Every Sunday... for 8 years in a row. Period... I mean I made friends with people in college through a shared love for game of thrones... it doesn't get any better than this show. It's like parenting. No matter who the best parents in the entire world might be, nor how well they think they're raising their children, nobody can raise "perfect" children. Likewise, in the world of televsion, it was too good of a thing to be true all the way until the end. The basic reason for this being that GRR hadn't finished the book series yet, and the show's quality was directly linked to its ability to draw inspiration from the pre-existing novels, basically cherry picking the character development, plot points, and overall story arcs that the show runners wanted to use while drawing from a basket of golden apples.... I'm in the middle of reading the book series too and I can already tell how faithfully the first few seasons stuck by the show. This is in my opinion what allowed the shows to be so powerful at first, because that's the way George RR Martin wrote the series. Singular. Powerful. Memorable. What I can't get on board with is bashing the entirety of the game of thornes name just for the sake of the way it ended. Or more broadly because of some apparent faults in its last two seasons. Sure, season 7 definitely did play it fast and loose with the pacing of the plot, characters traveling distances too fast and seeming to acoomplish too many tasks too quickly. Meanwhile, other plot lines didn't evolve as intricately as one might have hoped. Sure, season 8 continued the trend of bad writing habits and off pacing. And I whole-heartedly agree that there was no sastisfying exploration or conclusion as to the mystery and magic of the white walkers and of Brandon Stark/The 3-eyed Raven in general. That whole thing was sadly unexplained... But at the same time, I don't think all of the shows endings were bad. I don't believe it's a stretch that Dany ended up forsaking her dreams of earning the love and trust of her future subjects after watching so many of her friends and comrades die. Especially witnessing these deaths during and after having fought an army of undead. I would probably want to burn King's Landing to the ground too, if I had 3 dragons at my disposal. But other characters were also honorably treated, I thought. I thought the final moments of character and plotlines between Jaime and Cersei were poetic.. I thought Bran's ascension to his final position was logical considering what Westeros has been through... I thought Jon Snow's fate was appropriate to the tone of the show and its uncaring, cruel world... I thought Sansa had a beautiful rise to becoming queen of the north (I forget the term)... and Arya... and the Hound... and Tyrion Lannister... I mean, these were all good endings so far. Basically, the show had to end at some point, and no one ending would have pleased everybody... No one ending except the one that might have been written by George Martin himself. But that was never going to happen given the timeline of his publishing and the fast paced turnaround of writing, shooting, and releasing a new seasons of game of thrones. So in conclusion, I am still an avid fan of Game of Thrones. Haters are going to hate. And Last but not least... Of course I am optimistic for the potential of House of the Dragon!!! Mainly... People are so quick to forget everything great about GoT, as if just because it had a poor ish ending that invalidates the experience of the first 6 seasons? I'm sorry but if that's the way your brain works, you don't know how to appreciate art and what's been given to you. Sometimes, things are just disappointing in a long-term pursuit, but just like life lessons, that doesn't mean it's now a fact or a truth that the entire tv show is just pure garbage. Or that it doesn't deserver to be remembered. I'll be a GoT fan forever, end of story. Period!
I agree with all of your points. My issue with the ending was the pacing. I mean, for anyone who's ever picked up a GoT book, it's obvious that Dany has a dark side. Another issue I have with the show is how the "Ice and Fire" element never got executed as well as it could have been. So, the night king part should've been treated with more nuance and more major character deaths imho. Other than that, the last 2 seasons were completely fine. The problem with the critics is that once they've decided that something is "bad", they'll never see its redeeming qualities. But do I wish that the show's pacing and the night king story line got dealt a better hand? Yes. Do I also think that a traditional happy ending for Dany and Jon would've been ludicrous given the show's overall tone? Also yes. I would like to know your views on this, if you could answer. You're the only person besides me who I know of who doesn't villainize the ending.
@@inaju Sorry I forgot to respond to this comment a few days back. But I'm glad we agree on that point. Yes, I agree with your points as well. It's like I already said... I think the main factor in the writing quality of the show was the fact that the show writers could draw upon walls of text from a pre-existing tome of knowledge for each season. I believe they probably could have come up with a more satisfying ending if they perhaps had more time, and for example I heard even crew members were starting to want to leave the show just due to having been working on the same show for too long, cast included... So the show's ending was probably under a fair amount of pressure too, to end in a timely manner. Which is like battery acid for a truly meaningful artisitc pursuit of any kind. At least in most cases, Bethoven did famously write one of his most successful symphonies in a single night (or was it Bach?) but in the case of a tv show, I think more time would have been an asset. Other than that, we can basically lament the decline in the writing standards, understand and empathize with the people who were tring to make it, and from there come up with hopefully, your OWN CONCLUSION to what you really think about the show. Last but not least, I mean there was a huge bandwagon effect when it came to the reception of this show's finale. Like I keep on repeating: YES, the show's final seasons were not as good as the beginning. But no, i'm sorry, but I dont think you're correct in saying that the ending was absolute dog shit or that game of thrones as a whole is dogshit. (referring to the metaphorical "you" not you who replied to me). So I think it's received a lot more hate than it honestly deserves. Once again, to lambaste the entire show as a failure is to me just a completely immature and juvenile conclusion. No, it's not immaculate, but just because it ended in a sub-par manner, it doesn't negate the rest of the show, nor does it mean the entire ending was a failed one. I'ts about having an honest critique really of this work of art. I'm going to choose to believe that maybe, most people don't actually hate the show, but that perhaps a small subsection of people do, and that there's now a large section of people on the internet who continue bashing the show just because they want to be a part of a group. Like no, that's not how I want to live my life, thanks. I'll stick with my own opinions, and think what I want to think.
I have never stopped being a fan. I love the whole world, I reread the books once a year and rewatch the show (up until season 6) once a year. And I still absolutely hate seasons 7 & 8. But I'm still tired of seeing all these comments by people saying it will be bad. Why always so negative. The teaser was promising, the casting seems good, Martin is back in the writers-chair and D&D are NOT INVOLVED so the signs are goodm
Exactly this. I have a lot of hope for the show because it actually looks good, they’re basing the series on a time period that has a lot of (finished) source material to work with, GRRM is back at the helm to give input and write episodes like he was for GoT seasons 1-4, and the cast is full of people I know for a fact are great actors and will more than likely do the characters justice. Like, I get it guys, the last few seasons of Game of Thrones were terrible, but everything that made that the case (D&D) are nowhere near House of the Dragon.
I'm expecting it to be about as good as season 5, which is still a great season but a step down from peak Game of Thrones. That being said it shouldn't drop off like GOT because it already has an ending to build towards.
ASOIAF is my favorite series, I defended GRRM for many years, but I can't do it anymore. I'm tired too. Anyway, the original material behind House of the Dragon (Fire and Blood) is very good, so I think the TV show will be good.
Same here it was my favourite from 1996 onward but the long wait between book 4 and 5 meant i finally read the Malazan books and i just cant see ASOIAF in the same way any more and its not even in second place after Sandersons brilliant finish to WOT ...now after an 11 year wait for book 6 with another planned after that i just don't have any investment in the series...
ASOIAF is still one of my favorite series, and I will be watching the day it comes out. F&B is great source material and it will be cool seeing it onscreen. All S8 does right now is lower my expectations (and make me throw up a bit in my mouth just thinking about it)
Considering the main arcs of the history are already recorded and from what i read of the books seems to surmise a SUPER awesome possibility (especially considering the magic behind the history of the places)
I never stopped being a big fan. The latest blog wasn't a big deal to me either. I think GRRM is gonna write book 6, Fire and Blood 2 and maybe finish Dunk and Egg and that's my expectation. I don't think we'll ever get book 7 but honestly the breath of the world and how amazing the world is always amazes me. Honestly the theorizing is my favorite part of being in this fandom, and the fact that I always find new things on reread!! So needless to say I can't wait for HotD!!!
I love the idea behind this video. It’s like “what if mankind took a step forward before it destroys itself?”. It won’t happen, but it’s nice to think about
The problem with mentioning Season 8 for House of the Dragon is that the GOT showrunners aren’t part of it, and as far as I can tell, the House of the Dragon showrunners aren’t looking to rush the series for other projects.
After watching ep.4 tonight and then seeing this video for the first time, asking "can it possibly come anywhere close to Throne," I feel like that question should be regarded as laughable in retrospect. I was a non-book-first fan of Thrones-- not so much that it blinded me to Thrones' stumbling, and never so much so that I *assumed* Dragon would be great-- and Dragon is *nailing* it for me. Every main character feels deeply realized, and relatable, and *sympathetic* to me; the dynamics between them are fascinating the hell out of me; the scenes are produced so thoughtfully, and so immersive that I *feel* the atmosphere of the characters-- what it's like to see the arrival of the royal family invested with so much of the people's hope, or what it's like to sneak out of the palace and get drunk among the commoners for the first time, or how it feels to be threatened with being supplanted, or to grasp at a longing for prophecy. It's *so* ... effective at conveying the story and what it means to the characters. Like I'm hard anti-monarchist, anti-patriarchy, anti-sexual-purity-mores, but they managed to make me feel that concern for Rhaenyra's "virtue" while I was watching, even though as soon as it was over and I was back in the real world, I find the whole real-world concept *ridiculius.* So can they "match" Thrones? I feel like by the end of this season and series, Thrones is going to look unsophisticated and amateurish in comparison. For as much as I liked it, it never enthralled me like this is. ... Though in fairness, pot wasn't legal here during Thrones' run, and THC is really enhancing my experience of the successor 😅
Honestly? If Season 7 had been 10 episodes and had ended with the Death of the Night King and Season 8 had spent its 6 episodes building up Danaerys' fall, it could have been amazing. But no. They crammed it. I'll watch House of the Dragon, but I don't have many expectations.
Uh, no. Killing off the night king first was honestly the decision that ruined the show. By killing it first, you’re ruining one of the main themes of the show of how the real battle is the army of the dead that’s going to destroy all od westeros and all this political squabble is pointless. I mean come on, 75% of the lines Jon had in S7 was literally saying that.
I'm watching this because I like your content, I havent watched GoT beyond the season when the kid king died... I saw and heard that the last season is not well received... I personally enjoy it when someone can express his opinions somewhat objectively and doesnt cater to plaintiffs or defendants of "a thing" - it shows effort and your stress, because you are sitting in between the frontlines doesnt go unnoticed - it's great that you can handle it with humor.
I really enjoyed GOT all the way through Season 7 and halfway through 8. I think Season 8 wasn't great but I never thought it was "horrible" like so many said it was. I hope House of the Dragon is successful because the show was fun to watch!
@@fireandblood2919 Exactly, Season 7 was great..and the only problems I had with 8 was that it felt a little rushed and I wanted someone else on the throne (but we cant get everything we want lol). Other than that the entire series was excellent!
I'd love for it to be a good show and well received, but I was a young teenage girl during the early seasons and I doubt my interest now could come even close to my obsession of early GoT. Which is probably a good thing.
Ryan Condal worked on Colony, which was an excellent show that was cancelled too soon. He worked under show runner Carlton Cuse. I definitely think he could very well be one of those people who don't look like they have a big resume but who create something great and really knock it out of the park. I'm excited for this show, if only because it has the word "Dragon" in the title. We're going to have dueling fantasy shows, as this show's run will overlap with The Rings of Power which starts Sept. 1.
As a huuuuuuge fan of the show (seasons 1-4 specifically) and the books (especially books 1-3), I'm excited for this show but my expectations are INCREDIBLY low. The way I see it, if it's bad, it's bad and that sucks, but if it's GREAT, we just get more awesome shit to watch, so I'm glad it's happening.
Patrick Rothfuss fans also have reason to not be happy with the pace of new writing but he is still mostly adored. The "Season 8 wound" really makes the difference between feeling disapointed and feeling betrayed.
George R R Martin is helping with the show and he has said he’s loved what he’s seen so far and Martin was working with D&D during S1-S4 of GoT, which were arguably a reason as to why they were so good. You can definitely notice a big drop in quality in S5 after George left the show so the fact he’s working on it does give me hope
The only way for the Game of Throne IP to get back to the top of the mainstream was if George R. R. Martin finished Winds and Dream and then HBO announces they are doing a Game of Thrones: Brotherhood reboot (this is a reference to FMA: Brotherhood if you aren't aware, look it up) so they can "finish the story the right way." Because no matter how many spinoffs you do, if the main series still ends on that sour note none of it is going to matter. Just ask Star Wars fans.
I'm really excited about House of the Dragon! I still love rewatching Game of Thrones and reading the books. It just sucks that we won't see the last two books for a long time :(
I’m remaining optimistic it will be good. I want a lot of MUSHROOM in the show, who I thought was a hysterical character in Fire and Blood. Also, maybe when the show is out GRRM will finish ASOIAF! But yeah if it suxx it will be eviscerated without mercy!
I appreciate some actual optimism on this 😭. I think I should be alright, and will watch it all probably haha. I will say I don't think the ceiling is *that* high, since I feel like in general the best seasons were ones they were able to be closer to the books, and this show will be a narrative version of the history books, I'm a little skeptical.
Eh...people who have read Fire and Blood have mostly liked it. It has great writing. The people who refuse to read it are mostly the people upset about it. Regarding HOTD, people focus on entirely irrelevant things. Season 8's quality has literally NO bearing on whether or not HOTD is good. None. Nothing. Zero correlation. And so for people to act this way just makes me roll my eyes. I agree that HOTD is most likely just going to be good, but not great. But so what? Good television is still good television. And people act like we don't have five of the best seasons of TV to ever exist in GOT, and I'm thankful for that, regardless of if the ending wasn't as good. (Also, the internet overblows this. Casual fans don't care as much about the ending. A lot of people I talk to in real life thought the ending was maybe slightly disappointing, or they thought it was fine.)
i don’t think it’ll ever change until GRRM releases winds of winter. you can have all the spin-offs you like, but if there isn’t a true conclusion to the original series, there will always be dissatisfaction
I've been invested in this series for nearly half of my life now, and it feels bad to say that I just kinda feel done. I was even one of those people that put off watching the show for years because I wanted to finish reading the series before seeing the adaptation. So, once season 8 was announced, I binged it all in like a week just to speedrun like 8 years of increasing mediocrity before witnessing a colossal dumpster fire in real time. On top of that, Martin's constant delays have just left a sour taste in my soul about Westeros at large. I feel like I just can't interact with the series anymore until Winds of Winter comes out; if it ever does, that is.
Honestly good or bad, I hope that it doesn’t get dog piled with too many comparisons to GOT. And also I hope His Dark Materials has a good final season and it doesn’t get bogged down by the media hype of House of the Dragon.
Daniel, I know you're a superfan of Wheel of Time books, but let's be honest that WoT show was a mess lol. It's hard to accept your glimpse of tier list.
The only thing I'm worried about is if these shows do well, it will just reinforce GRRM's mindset of working on side projects and then we will never get the main books. But to be honest, I've lost all hope in ever seeing the main story be finished in book form. Maybe we will get winds in the next 5 years but then you have to think it took 11-15 years to release winds (if it releases), then another 10-15 years for any following book. Is GRRM going to be writing these books when he is 90? no :( But whatever makes the man happy i guess.
If Martin lives to be 90 with his mind intact I’m sure he’ll keep writing these books. He’ll keep doing it infuriatingly slowly and keep being distracted by side projects, though.
Even if House of the Dragon is the GOAT of TV, it wont change how GoT is viewed. Because House of the Dragon is a prequel, we all know how it ends on GoT Season 8 and its how a show ends, not how it starts, that is remembered. As for GRRM, he will absolutely not finish the books. We *might* see Winds of Winter (I doubt but hey, its not impossible), but there is NO WAY he is going to live for another 10+ years with enough health to write A Dream of Spring.
House of The Dragon takes place far enough in the past that I don’t really see how GoT’s ending would affect it at all. It would be a different story if they were doing something like Robert’s rebellion, since GoT’s events are a direct continuation of that, but that ship really sailed when they didn’t include much of it in the show.
I honestly doubt Winds of Winter will ever live up to the hype bc of all the years people have been waiting, the GoT Final etc. If it ever comes out it needs to be a goddamn masterpiece to please people Im looking forward to House of Dragons tho, we shall see
I dont know why this jumped out at me, but I feel like marketing made a poor choice in choosing an august release. Just seeing that giant 8 in the GoT font on the front of the poster is automatically going to make a lot of people think immediently of season 8. Like, even delaying the release 2 weeks would have been smarter in my opinion, just to avoid having a giant 8 on the poster. Or even like just spell out August instead idk, seems like something marketing would have picked up on.
We can only truly move on from season 8 once we have a better alternative ending, something we won’t even come close to without Winds of Winter. George finishing that book and it somehow being worth the wait is the only hope for the IP
I got into GOT when the show first started, then devoured the books after that. I have read all the ancillary material (World of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood). While I am not a big fan of a lot of what DND did with the final season, I am a die hard of the series. It upsets me how soooo many people have written off the entire show because of that final season. There is SO much great story-telling and revolutionary TV up to that last season I dont see how people can write off the whole show. When it comes to House of the Dragon, im also a bit worried about the writers' credentials.....but the source material is solid, there are a lot of cool, cinematic and dramatic moments in the Dance of Dragons! And, most importantly in my opinion, it has an ending. The problem with DND and GOT is that they had to come up with their own ending and they clearly had no idea how they wanted to do it. They seemed to have gotten bored with the show and jjust wanted to wrap things up and move on to their (now defunct) Star Wars movies. Hopefully the showrunner and writers of HotD stick to the source material and are writing to that ending, not just dovetailing into that dark abyss like DND did.
I don't get it either? I think a vocal minority just gets on a hate bandwagon. I loved the show from Season 1 to midway through Season 8. The entire show was great and I hope House of the Dragon does very well!
If Winds is that close to being ready (we can’t know) Martin really should announce it prior to the first season airing to hype people up and get rid of much of the negativity. Still, I wouldn’t bet on Winds being announced this year, even though I obviously hope it will be.
I will likely watch HOTD but might wait a few weeks to see what the consensus is. I'm a little sour on adaptations lately, and I'm salty about GRRM not prioritizing Winds of Winter and then having the audacity to say what he did in his blog post about people asking about WOW. I don't know why he isn't working on it as much as his other side projects, but I think it's going to really affect his legacy if he doesn't finish the series. That being said, I try to be optimistic and give things a chance, so I'm hoping HOTD is good.
I expect nothing, but I will see it, and if it will be good I will be more than glad! If it will be bad, well, I will be happy for the people who will enjoy it!
As a massive fan of the Targaryens I am really excited for hotd, especially after seeing the new trailer ... but above anything else I want Winds of Winter. All these new spinoffs sound great (especially the Dunk and Egg series) but I also wouldn't be too upset if they didn't happen, bc what I really care about is the sixth book. From what I've seen, the fanbase in general just wants the main series to be finished. I think everyone would be way more receptive to these spinoffs if it was. But, from HBO's point of view, GoT (the TV show) is a separate franchise from ASOIAF, and I think HBO should be able to continue with it - it's not their fault the books aren't finished. (Although I'm still bitter about S8). I have sympathy for GRRM because he might be struggling with creative burnout/too much pressure but .... it's been TEN YEARS, dude.
I think it'll be great because the producer is a big fan himself and he studied the whole universe etc. Also Martin and he talked much about it and they seem to be a good team
People act like there's an abundance of "quality" shows out there. Forget about GOT's ending. HBO is very award-hungry and they pride themselves in producing quality shows, with quality writing and material. I'll take a chance and click on a HBO original over an Amazon original. 😁
I'm interested in HOTD, the cast is exciting and if they have even half the budget and talent in the costuming and (pre-starbucks) set design department the show will be beautiful to watch. They know they have to really turn it out to be successful, and I hope they do, but I'm not sure I've got it in me for the disappointment that came from season 8 again.
I can't understand ppl who think that this is gonna be bad while they think wheel of time show is great. I mean, as bad season 8 as it was, it was still way better than Amazon's wheel of time. 😂😂
I personally won't be reading Winds of Winter if it ever releases until A Dream of Spring has a firm release date, because it's now been a decade since I read the books and I'm not willing to put in the time to reread them just to be left hanging indefinitely again - there are other books to read.
I really just can’t care about side content anymore until the main story is finished being told. I WANT to be excited but it’s hard to make it worth anything when we’re still waiting on the main reason we’re all here.
I'll be reading a book. Problem is that I don't have the feels for any streaming service. Without feels, I probs won't watch, and the streaming service never has the chance to heal my PTSD for GoT's ending. Meanwhile, my reading list is never ending.
Something i have discovered about myself in the last few years is that i don't care about IPs anymore. A good marvel movie/show came out. I'll watch it. A meh marvel movie/show came out. Pass. So, if this show turns out to be good, i'll definitely check it out (and possibly fall in love with (stop laughing!)). Otherwise, this will also be forgotten with time like the countless other Sci-fi/ fantasy shows we are getting everyday.
I can totally be brought back. I think F&B as well as TWOIAF have a loooooooot of cool concepts that I would be interested to see explored. Am I the only one who wants to see more about the Summer Isles? Maybe it’s just because I’m an islander myself and a huge OP fan, so that makes me want to see more islands and nautical things cuz those are cool.
1. People can't let go of GRRM not finishing the series. Ultimately, people seem unwilling to leave him be and let him work (or not work) on TWOW. Most people consider his lack of productivity to be unforgiveable, and ultimately, that's going to color the discussion surrounding House of Dragons. I think that's a little childish, but that's just my opinion. 2. That said, House of the Dragon is in a really lucky position because it has great brand recognition. If its good, it will draw numbers. Given time, I think its possible people will stop obsessing over TWOW and GRRM's lack of progress. 3. Regardless, I am waiting to see. The one thing I think is crucial is solid writing. A focus on character, subtlety, and sophistication is what makes the books (and early GOT seasons) so special in my opinion. While the world-building is top-notch and I truly appreciate the grimdark aspect, its the above mentioned elements that truly shine. The early seasons of GOT really picked up on that too! In those first four seasons, notice how many quiet, under-stated, smart scenes there are that last over FIVE MINUTES LONG. The later seasons just threw that in the bin. In HOD, the writing needs to go BIG in terms of quality. Everything else will be secondary and as we found out during GOT's tenure, special effects and "mature themes" alone won't cut it.
I don't think its possible to be seen the same, a lot of people at best are going to wait to see if its good. And even if it is a lot of people are going to say well the last one was good too and might watch it when it call comes out. To me this feels kinda like a good fun friend who is a really bad drunk on night. At the next party you might be willing to come again but there is a lack of trust and you are just waiting to see if things go wrong again.
Not to plug my own podcast, but we did a podcast episode on this subject. I have faith. The story is written so it can't be ruined by bad writers. They're using some of the directors from the best GofT episodes. It'll be fine.
2:08 while I was not on the internet/watching shows at the time, I don't feel GoT really made that change. Band of Brothers and Rome from HBO I would say started going on that route much earlier. I might be wrong, considering the internet wasn't the biggest thing when these two shows aired, but really helped GoT.
Can you be turned into as big a fan as you once were of this franchise?
No. With whatever they are doing, the TV franchise will forever have the problem, that everything in season 6-8 is canon to the show. I cant do head canons.
It depends on how good the dragons are :)
ABSOLUTELY I NEVER STOPPED
@@guddefulgaming I don’t get this thinking. HOTD is a prequel series. What difference does it make if season 6-8 is canon
@@jaimelannister1797 For the plot of HOTD none. For the athmosphere of the world? A lot. Me knowing what it leads to just makes me not interested. Nothing wrong if its different for you, but for me its just like that :/
It'll probably be fine, Fire and Blood is great source material and they aren't going off script yet. But early Game of Thrones set the bar too high I think before a truly terrible finale, I would be surprised if the Season 8 memes stop. People want Winds of Winter above all else.
They've already decided to introduce new characters and stuff, and some of the casting choices makes it clear that they are abandoning certain plot lines. So I would say they are off the script already
@@bakthihapuarachchi3447 I barely remember what happened in Fire and Blood. How are they diverting from the source material?
@@bakthihapuarachchi3447 which casting choices?
It started cause they casted some white characters as black (don't chew me out as a racist just here what I have to say)
Spoilers!!
The show has decided to make the Velaryons black. In the book, Rhaenyra Targaeyen is married to Laenor Velaryon, but because he's gay, she cheats on him and has three illegitimate kids. People suspect that they are bastards, but can't prove it. But if Laenor is black and Rhaenyra just keeps having white kids then it would become pretty obvious that she's cheating. So either the show has to make Laenor straight or make Rhaenyra faithful. The end result is Rhaenyra's three eldest children, who play a vital role in the Dance of Dragons, not being born
@@GallowglassVT The guy they casted for Corlys Velaryon is black (and it appears that all of the Velaryon's are black in the show). This firstly contradicts the books because all of the Velaryon's have traditional Valyrian looks like the Targaryens (white people with white hair and purple eyes). And secondly, this causes a problem with one of the plotlines about whether Laenor Valaryon's children are really his or Harwin Strong's, as all of the children have brown hair and eyes rather than the traditional Valyrian white hair and purple eyes. This plotline can't work in the show's version because....genetics are still a thing in the fictional universe of Game of Thrones.
I absolutely hope that HOTD is good, and I can literally never have enough Fantasy media in my life, but I am kind of concerned. I think a primary reason Game of Thrones was so successful was that GRRM utilized his skills as a former TV screenwriter to write the source material. Making a TV show based on a book series is a lot easier when that book series was written by a former screenwriter who structured the books a lot like a TV show already. But HOTD is based on Martin's supplemental "history" books rather than the novels, and so its source material isn't paced or structured like a TV show at all. Which doesn't mean it will be bad, but I do think it will be more inherently challenging to adapt this story than it was adapting ASOAIF.
This explains why he is so passionate about over seeing a lot of news shows and is prioritizing shows about Westros rather than Winds specifically because he was a screenwriter himself. He probably still has that screenwriting passion in him and wants to continue overseeing shows rather than write Winds
@@David-gj9qr Exactly! I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and I came to the conclusion that he should’ve paused Winds and taken control of the show based on what he had already decided
Genuinely I can’t see many reasons why this isn’t going to be good (at least). Solid cast, excellent source material, major fans helming the show as showrunners, and Martin himself has praised what he’s seen of the show. Game of Thrones is still a massive IP and it has the potential to be amazing
Corlys Velaryon is a solid casting choice? 🤣🤣🤣
@@officerdank4644 amazing casting choice
@@officerdank4644 Why wouldn't he be?
Personally season 8 hate aside. I still believe the first 4 seasons of the show are some of the best tv seasons of all time and some of the best book to screen adaptations done. Of course after that it went downhill but I’ll give House of the Dragon a shot I expect it to be solid overall just seeing them add more swords to the Iron Throne makes me feel like there’s more love for the books in this crew. Ultimately I want The Winds of Winter even if he never finishes it I want to at least have answers to the cliffhangers set up in Dance or even just the Battle chapters that Martin said he cut from Dance.
No dand, a diverse set of writers, George observed the whole production. It will be better than most will expect but not as great as the first 4 seasons of got. It will be watchable television. Sadly George doesn't care about winds. He is more interested in finishing that anthology about house targaryen.
@@rsync9490 like two months ago he announced that he'd made a lot of headway and wasn't far from finishing, unless I dreamed it
@@Jane-oz7pp LOL you actually believed that?
The people who worked on the earlier seasons of GoT are all present; George is involved again; the people responsible for GoT downfall are nowhere to be seen - AND you have one of the materials to source from? PLUS it has the later GoT seasons budget but the earlier GoT seasons work force?
Ye, I'm expecting this show to be the greatest show of all time.
Okay so in French they have a proverb that is roughly this is english "never sell the skin of the bear before killing it". Wich means that we cannot leave so pessimistic and so sure of the failure of the series. I think HBO learned some bitter lessons from Season 8 and is keen to maintain its reputation as an EXCELLENT series server above all else. They canceled the previous spinoff that cost them $30 million because it wasn't good ENOUGH for them. If House of the Dragon has been validated in my opinion it is because it is very good. Moreover, even Martin loves the episodes he has seen (edited but without special effects and other). As for the linguist (the one who speaks the language of Valyria) he declared that it was the best thing he ever participated in. So let's keep hope.
That's a cool metaphor France, although "never sell the skin of the bear before killing it" in English sounds more like don't be too optimistic of success, because bears are bloody hard to find and kill.
I do agree with your reasoning though, and, seven hells, the cancelled Long Night cost 30 million?! I figured something was wrong since they left it unaired, but that could be because there's no VFX added. I always thought that premise was unwise for a show, but I'm so curious to see what they did with it.
@@MagusMarquillin I only add the number that i saw and heard on different medias :) but it's really mean a lot about HBO politics with TV shows who's different from Netflix one
In german we have a proverb called "A milkmaid's calculation" (Milchmädchenrechnung) and it's basically the same. The moral is: "Don't plan what you're gonna do with the money until you have it."
Story goes like this:
A Maid goes to the market to sell milk. On her way to the market she's planning what she's gonna do with the money she's going to earn by selling the milk. (Buy eggs, hatch chicks, have chicken, sell eggs, earn more money to finally buy that new dress she wants.) Then she falls over and spills all the milk.
A lil offtopic, but still a fun comparison to the french one ^^
@@artfoex oh yes ! But in France that's a tale for childrens :)
Ironically, Martin is kinda selling the skin before he even finished tracking the bear down and getting that bear on paper.
Has an IP have such a turnaround?
I can see a really great show getting a middling audience, but I cannot imagine capturing that lightning in a bottle once it is lost. And even if they did, would it attract the audience it did before? I don't believe it will, even if the show deserves it.
Star Wars is kinda having a turnaround since The Mandalorian came out
Yes your right it has every chance of being good but the baggage might be to much for it..
@@bigbangzebraman351 only among the Hardcore fans.
@@bigbangzebraman351 I was thinking of that. But is it as big as it could/should be?
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 I don't think so man. I know a ton of people who were not Star Wars fans before Mandalorian and are now really into it.
You were right. The show is great
I don't think it's fair to go into this show expecting it to "revolutionize television" like game of thrones did. Honestly, as long as it's a great and riveting story, what more could you ask for?
The book was amazing so I hope they stick to it. I think it will and they have learned their lesson from S8. I think the targaryen lore is amazing and show can definitely be a great one
Question, is it a single book or a series, and if it's a serie is it completed?
@@unfairjarl the story of HotD covers half of the history book called Fire and Blood, it's about 350 pages. The reason why people are unsure is because the writers have to create their own scenes and dialogues, in contrast to earlier seasons of GoT where all scenes were fully and completely written in books.
@@tarlochansingh620 okay thanks for the explanation
A Song of Ice and Fire has always held a special place in my heart because I watched the show first (came in mid-season 2) but then absolutely DEVOURED the books. They were the catalyst for me getting back into reading for fun after being burned out on books by college/grad school. I have also even really enjoyed tangential offerings that offer a deeper look at the setting like World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood.
I feel bad for Martin because (although I am nowhere near his skill or talent level) I've been plugging away on trying to write my own first novel and it's hard work. I think it's easy to forget that for most of his career GRRM hasn't really been much of a novelist. Most of his back catalog (which I also really enjoy and appreciate) is sci-fi short stories, stand-alone novels, or screenwriting. All of that is WAY DIFFERENT than trying to do something so interconnected and big as A Song of Ice and Fire.
I want to read Winds of Winter more than I want other stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other stuff, too. I also really think that even if it hits a lot of the same notes that didn't work well in Season 8, in Martin's hands with space and time to develop motive and reasoning what happened could be very similar to Season 8 but also still very good. So, House of the Dragon isn't something I'm super pumped about, but I bet it will be something I still watch and enjoy.
I think HBO's quite confident in the success of HoTD. Otherwise, they wouldn't have released it to clash with the new LoTR series.
Agree
I am hoping RoP turns out to be good, and even if it is, I still think HotD is actually going to be the better show.
@@belleretiredaccount after the Trailer my excitment levels have drop significantly
Man if Hotd fails. It will be the downfall of the ip and HBO with it 😂😂😂😂
After watching both trailers now that Comic Con has ended, I think The Rings of Power is doomed to fail.
Back From the future to tell you,it's freaking amazing!!!!!
GRRM was friends with Ryan Condal prior to HOTD being a thing, and personally picked him for his knowledge of the source material. For that reason I trust in him.
Sounds like bull. Don't forget GRRM also personally picked D&D too.
@@wackyswacky1374 this seems different though. D&D read the books because they wanted to make the show, and sought George out. Meanwhile Condal first read the books as just a fan in the early 2000s, and years later met George as a fan and became friends with him. Then GRRM asked him to work on the show due to his knowledge of the source material.
Source: GRRM on Condal’s podcast
@@jaimelannister1797 Every showrunner now says they are a fan of the source material, and then we see the show and it's a completely original story that is worse in every way. This happens every time.
@@wackyswacky1374 well listening to his podcast it sounded genuine 🤷♂️ I’m just optimistic about the show.
The story of the Dance in Fire and Blood is absolutely nuts in the best possible way, so that gives me a lot of hope for the series.
This video aged like wine
The thing that killed GoT was having showrunners who didn't really give a shit after adapting ASOS, and who weren't skilled enough to finish the story with just guidelines for the story (though I also have heard that they just ignored the guidelines GRRM gave them). If HotD has showrunners and writers who actually care, then it will probably be pretty good, if not great. It even has the potential to be as good as GoT at its peak.
As for me, I never stopped being a fan. I'll be there when/if the next books come out, and I'll try out the shows if they look interesting. Though I do hope that HotD helps clear out some of the cynicism in the fanbase (though Winds coming out would be even better in that regard).
Incredibly excited to see what they have Sonoya Mizuno doing. She's an absolutely amazing actress with INSANE range.
i think anything less than exceptional will be seen as trash. even if it's mediocre to good people will be so annoyed over the whole situation it will dragged to hell and back while on fire and chewed on by leaches .
There's only one thing I know for sure about this show, and that's that Matt Smith is going to go balls to the wall and kill it, like he always does 😎
The manic energy in this video is strong (and it's great to watch)
I'd be over the moon for shows like this if the books were done. As it is now, that intense love for this brand is just dead.
The book for this is done. This is a prequel and it’s based off of fire and blood
I am actually in the middle of re-watching game of thrones from start to finish and I don't plan on skipping the last 2 seasons... Because in all honesty, they are not nearly as bad as the internet seems to have made them out to be. I'm not an idiot. I can obviously see that the writing quality and aspects like pacing, sufferred in those last two seasons compared to what the original 1-5/6 seasons achieved. However, people are so quick to shrug off the fact that game of thrones was for starters, way more than just its penultimate seasons. It's a once-in-a=lifetime exquisitely crafted adventure through an immersive, compelling, gritty, dark, yet very human fantasy world... One which captivated its viewers for nigh on 10 years straight with its absolutely peerless writing, incredible actors, superb cinematography and locations portrayed on-screen, and all packaged in a neat, bloody, slightly salacious but not too salacious in my opinion, package that at least I ate up like candy on Christmas. Every Sunday... for 8 years in a row. Period... I mean I made friends with people in college through a shared love for game of thrones... it doesn't get any better than this show.
It's like parenting. No matter who the best parents in the entire world might be, nor how well they think they're raising their children, nobody can raise "perfect" children. Likewise, in the world of televsion, it was too good of a thing to be true all the way until the end. The basic reason for this being that GRR hadn't finished the book series yet, and the show's quality was directly linked to its ability to draw inspiration from the pre-existing novels, basically cherry picking the character development, plot points, and overall story arcs that the show runners wanted to use while drawing from a basket of golden apples.... I'm in the middle of reading the book series too and I can already tell how faithfully the first few seasons stuck by the show. This is in my opinion what allowed the shows to be so powerful at first, because that's the way George RR Martin wrote the series. Singular. Powerful. Memorable.
What I can't get on board with is bashing the entirety of the game of thornes name just for the sake of the way it ended. Or more broadly because of some apparent faults in its last two seasons. Sure, season 7 definitely did play it fast and loose with the pacing of the plot, characters traveling distances too fast and seeming to acoomplish too many tasks too quickly. Meanwhile, other plot lines didn't evolve as intricately as one might have hoped. Sure, season 8 continued the trend of bad writing habits and off pacing. And I whole-heartedly agree that there was no sastisfying exploration or conclusion as to the mystery and magic of the white walkers and of Brandon Stark/The 3-eyed Raven in general. That whole thing was sadly unexplained... But at the same time, I don't think all of the shows endings were bad. I don't believe it's a stretch that Dany ended up forsaking her dreams of earning the love and trust of her future subjects after watching so many of her friends and comrades die. Especially witnessing these deaths during and after having fought an army of undead. I would probably want to burn King's Landing to the ground too, if I had 3 dragons at my disposal. But other characters were also honorably treated, I thought. I thought the final moments of character and plotlines between Jaime and Cersei were poetic.. I thought Bran's ascension to his final position was logical considering what Westeros has been through... I thought Jon Snow's fate was appropriate to the tone of the show and its uncaring, cruel world... I thought Sansa had a beautiful rise to becoming queen of the north (I forget the term)... and Arya... and the Hound... and Tyrion Lannister... I mean, these were all good endings so far. Basically, the show had to end at some point, and no one ending would have pleased everybody...
No one ending except the one that might have been written by George Martin himself. But that was never going to happen given the timeline of his publishing and the fast paced turnaround of writing, shooting, and releasing a new seasons of game of thrones. So in conclusion, I am still an avid fan of Game of Thrones. Haters are going to hate. And Last but not least...
Of course I am optimistic for the potential of House of the Dragon!!!
Mainly... People are so quick to forget everything great about GoT, as if just because it had a poor ish ending that invalidates the experience of the first 6 seasons? I'm sorry but if that's the way your brain works, you don't know how to appreciate art and what's been given to you. Sometimes, things are just disappointing in a long-term pursuit, but just like life lessons, that doesn't mean it's now a fact or a truth that the entire tv show is just pure garbage. Or that it doesn't deserver to be remembered. I'll be a GoT fan forever, end of story. Period!
I agree with all of your points. My issue with the ending was the pacing. I mean, for anyone who's ever picked up a GoT book, it's obvious that Dany has a dark side. Another issue I have with the show is how the "Ice and Fire" element never got executed as well as it could have been. So, the night king part should've been treated with more nuance and more major character deaths imho. Other than that, the last 2 seasons were completely fine. The problem with the critics is that once they've decided that something is "bad", they'll never see its redeeming qualities. But do I wish that the show's pacing and the night king story line got dealt a better hand? Yes. Do I also think that a traditional happy ending for Dany and Jon would've been ludicrous given the show's overall tone? Also yes. I would like to know your views on this, if you could answer. You're the only person besides me who I know of who doesn't villainize the ending.
You’re delusional.
@@inaju Sorry I forgot to respond to this comment a few days back. But I'm glad we agree on that point.
Yes, I agree with your points as well.
It's like I already said... I think the main factor in the writing quality of the show was the fact that the show writers could draw upon walls of text from a pre-existing tome of knowledge for each season. I believe they probably could have come up with a more satisfying ending if they perhaps had more time, and for example I heard even crew members were starting to want to leave the show just due to having been working on the same show for too long, cast included... So the show's ending was probably under a fair amount of pressure too, to end in a timely manner. Which is like battery acid for a truly meaningful artisitc pursuit of any kind. At least in most cases, Bethoven did famously write one of his most successful symphonies in a single night (or was it Bach?) but in the case of a tv show, I think more time would have been an asset.
Other than that, we can basically lament the decline in the writing standards, understand and empathize with the people who were tring to make it, and from there come up with hopefully, your OWN CONCLUSION to what you really think about the show.
Last but not least, I mean there was a huge bandwagon effect when it came to the reception of this show's finale. Like I keep on repeating: YES, the show's final seasons were not as good as the beginning. But no, i'm sorry, but I dont think you're correct in saying that the ending was absolute dog shit or that game of thrones as a whole is dogshit. (referring to the metaphorical "you" not you who replied to me). So I think it's received a lot more hate than it honestly deserves. Once again, to lambaste the entire show as a failure is to me just a completely immature and juvenile conclusion. No, it's not immaculate, but just because it ended in a sub-par manner, it doesn't negate the rest of the show, nor does it mean the entire ending was a failed one.
I'ts about having an honest critique really of this work of art. I'm going to choose to believe that maybe, most people don't actually hate the show, but that perhaps a small subsection of people do, and that there's now a large section of people on the internet who continue bashing the show just because they want to be a part of a group. Like no, that's not how I want to live my life, thanks. I'll stick with my own opinions, and think what I want to think.
@@Zephoshyrule thanks for replying. We are once again agreed..
I have never stopped being a fan. I love the whole world, I reread the books once a year and rewatch the show (up until season 6) once a year. And I still absolutely hate seasons 7 & 8. But I'm still tired of seeing all these comments by people saying it will be bad. Why always so negative. The teaser was promising, the casting seems good, Martin is back in the writers-chair and D&D are NOT INVOLVED so the signs are goodm
Exactly this. I have a lot of hope for the show because it actually looks good, they’re basing the series on a time period that has a lot of (finished) source material to work with, GRRM is back at the helm to give input and write episodes like he was for GoT seasons 1-4, and the cast is full of people I know for a fact are great actors and will more than likely do the characters justice.
Like, I get it guys, the last few seasons of Game of Thrones were terrible, but everything that made that the case (D&D) are nowhere near House of the Dragon.
I'm expecting it to be about as good as season 5, which is still a great season but a step down from peak Game of Thrones. That being said it shouldn't drop off like GOT because it already has an ending to build towards.
oof.
Season 5 is actually my fave 😕
Love the shout out to Suburban Sasquatch! Your content enriches us all. Thanks for all your hard work.
ASOIAF is my favorite series, I defended GRRM for many years, but I can't do it anymore. I'm tired too. Anyway, the original material behind House of the Dragon (Fire and Blood) is very good, so I think the TV show will be good.
Same here it was my favourite from 1996 onward but the long wait between book 4 and 5 meant i finally read the Malazan books and i just cant see ASOIAF in the same way any more and its not even in second place after Sandersons brilliant finish to WOT ...now after an 11 year wait for book 6 with another planned after that i just don't have any investment in the series...
Trying to stay cup half full about it as you are. 🤞Nice to see Pip again, my cat Ramon gave it 5 paws 😺🐾🐾
ASOIAF is still one of my favorite series, and I will be watching the day it comes out. F&B is great source material and it will be cool seeing it onscreen.
All S8 does right now is lower my expectations (and make me throw up a bit in my mouth just thinking about it)
Love the shirt!
Considering the main arcs of the history are already recorded and from what i read of the books seems to surmise a SUPER awesome possibility (especially considering the magic behind the history of the places)
I never stopped being a big fan. The latest blog wasn't a big deal to me either. I think GRRM is gonna write book 6, Fire and Blood 2 and maybe finish Dunk and Egg and that's my expectation.
I don't think we'll ever get book 7 but honestly the breath of the world and how amazing the world is always amazes me. Honestly the theorizing is my favorite part of being in this fandom, and the fact that I always find new things on reread!!
So needless to say I can't wait for HotD!!!
I love the idea behind this video. It’s like “what if mankind took a step forward before it destroys itself?”. It won’t happen, but it’s nice to think about
The problem with mentioning Season 8 for House of the Dragon is that the GOT showrunners aren’t part of it, and as far as I can tell, the House of the Dragon showrunners aren’t looking to rush the series for other projects.
Ppl don’t understand that DND live rent free in these peoples heads 😂
After watching ep.4 tonight and then seeing this video for the first time, asking "can it possibly come anywhere close to Throne," I feel like that question should be regarded as laughable in retrospect. I was a non-book-first fan of Thrones-- not so much that it blinded me to Thrones' stumbling, and never so much so that I *assumed* Dragon would be great-- and Dragon is *nailing* it for me. Every main character feels deeply realized, and relatable, and *sympathetic* to me; the dynamics between them are fascinating the hell out of me; the scenes are produced so thoughtfully, and so immersive that I *feel* the atmosphere of the characters-- what it's like to see the arrival of the royal family invested with so much of the people's hope, or what it's like to sneak out of the palace and get drunk among the commoners for the first time, or how it feels to be threatened with being supplanted, or to grasp at a longing for prophecy.
It's *so* ... effective at conveying the story and what it means to the characters. Like I'm hard anti-monarchist, anti-patriarchy, anti-sexual-purity-mores, but they managed to make me feel that concern for Rhaenyra's "virtue" while I was watching, even though as soon as it was over and I was back in the real world, I find the whole real-world concept *ridiculius.*
So can they "match" Thrones? I feel like by the end of this season and series, Thrones is going to look unsophisticated and amateurish in comparison. For as much as I liked it, it never enthralled me like this is. ... Though in fairness, pot wasn't legal here during Thrones' run, and THC is really enhancing my experience of the successor 😅
Honestly? If Season 7 had been 10 episodes and had ended with the Death of the Night King and Season 8 had spent its 6 episodes building up Danaerys' fall, it could have been amazing. But no. They crammed it. I'll watch House of the Dragon, but I don't have many expectations.
Uh, no. Killing off the night king first was honestly the decision that ruined the show. By killing it first, you’re ruining one of the main themes of the show of how the real battle is the army of the dead that’s going to destroy all od westeros and all this political squabble is pointless. I mean come on, 75% of the lines Jon had in S7 was literally saying that.
Rampage was a very heartfelt and touching movie. I am excited to see what he does with this new platform 🤔
It was surprisingly decent for how nothing the source material was.
I'm watching this because I like your content, I havent watched GoT beyond the season when the kid king died... I saw and heard that the last season is not well received... I personally enjoy it when someone can express his opinions somewhat objectively and doesnt cater to plaintiffs or defendants of "a thing" - it shows effort and your stress, because you are sitting in between the frontlines doesnt go unnoticed - it's great that you can handle it with humor.
I really enjoyed GOT all the way through Season 7 and halfway through 8. I think Season 8 wasn't great but I never thought it was "horrible" like so many said it was. I hope House of the Dragon is successful because the show was fun to watch!
Couldn’t agree more. People love to over exaggerate for likes and clicks. Season 8 is far superior to most of the crap television out there.
@@fireandblood2919 Exactly, Season 7 was great..and the only problems I had with 8 was that it felt a little rushed and I wanted someone else on the throne (but we cant get everything we want lol). Other than that the entire series was excellent!
3:32 that alarm for Chornobyl, I think scared the crap out of me.
“If this is bad it won’t be good.” Awesome insight!
I'd love for it to be a good show and well received, but I was a young teenage girl during the early seasons and I doubt my interest now could come even close to my obsession of early GoT. Which is probably a good thing.
I can atleast expect the world and set design to be top notch. So I'm excited.
i really hope so!
Theres gonna be an increase in "i think this is my new favorite part i've read so far" from now and onwards
I am super excited for it!
I love the Pips cameo!
Ryan Condal worked on Colony, which was an excellent show that was cancelled too soon. He worked under show runner Carlton Cuse. I definitely think he could very well be one of those people who don't look like they have a big resume but who create something great and really knock it out of the park. I'm excited for this show, if only because it has the word "Dragon" in the title. We're going to have dueling fantasy shows, as this show's run will overlap with The Rings of Power which starts Sept. 1.
As a huuuuuuge fan of the show (seasons 1-4 specifically) and the books (especially books 1-3), I'm excited for this show but my expectations are INCREDIBLY low. The way I see it, if it's bad, it's bad and that sucks, but if it's GREAT, we just get more awesome shit to watch, so I'm glad it's happening.
Patrick Rothfuss fans also have reason to not be happy with the pace of new writing but he is still mostly adored. The "Season 8 wound" really makes the difference between feeling disapointed and feeling betrayed.
I wasn't expecting Daniel to make a video about this...
Idk why but Daniel slapping camera was so funny to me 😂
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. GoT crushing my heart was enough.
George R R Martin is helping with the show and he has said he’s loved what he’s seen so far and Martin was working with D&D during S1-S4 of GoT, which were arguably a reason as to why they were so good. You can definitely notice a big drop in quality in S5 after George left the show so the fact he’s working on it does give me hope
The only way for the Game of Throne IP to get back to the top of the mainstream was if George R. R. Martin finished Winds and Dream and then HBO announces they are doing a Game of Thrones: Brotherhood reboot (this is a reference to FMA: Brotherhood if you aren't aware, look it up) so they can "finish the story the right way." Because no matter how many spinoffs you do, if the main series still ends on that sour note none of it is going to matter. Just ask Star Wars fans.
I'm really excited about House of the Dragon! I still love rewatching Game of Thrones and reading the books. It just sucks that we won't see the last two books for a long time :(
I’m remaining optimistic it will be good. I want a lot of MUSHROOM in the show, who I thought was a hysterical character in Fire and Blood. Also, maybe when the show is out GRRM will finish ASOIAF! But yeah if it suxx it will be eviscerated without mercy!
I appreciate some actual optimism on this 😭. I think I should be alright, and will watch it all probably haha. I will say I don't think the ceiling is *that* high, since I feel like in general the best seasons were ones they were able to be closer to the books, and this show will be a narrative version of the history books, I'm a little skeptical.
I'm leaving a like because this is Daniel talking about something, I'm not interested in anything GOT related until Winds of Winter is published.
Eh...people who have read Fire and Blood have mostly liked it. It has great writing. The people who refuse to read it are mostly the people upset about it. Regarding HOTD, people focus on entirely irrelevant things. Season 8's quality has literally NO bearing on whether or not HOTD is good. None. Nothing. Zero correlation. And so for people to act this way just makes me roll my eyes. I agree that HOTD is most likely just going to be good, but not great. But so what? Good television is still good television. And people act like we don't have five of the best seasons of TV to ever exist in GOT, and I'm thankful for that, regardless of if the ending wasn't as good. (Also, the internet overblows this. Casual fans don't care as much about the ending. A lot of people I talk to in real life thought the ending was maybe slightly disappointing, or they thought it was fine.)
i don’t think it’ll ever change until GRRM releases winds of winter. you can have all the spin-offs you like, but if there isn’t a true conclusion to the original series, there will always be dissatisfaction
I've been invested in this series for nearly half of my life now, and it feels bad to say that I just kinda feel done. I was even one of those people that put off watching the show for years because I wanted to finish reading the series before seeing the adaptation. So, once season 8 was announced, I binged it all in like a week just to speedrun like 8 years of increasing mediocrity before witnessing a colossal dumpster fire in real time. On top of that, Martin's constant delays have just left a sour taste in my soul about Westeros at large. I feel like I just can't interact with the series anymore until Winds of Winter comes out; if it ever does, that is.
Honestly good or bad, I hope that it doesn’t get dog piled with too many comparisons to GOT. And also I hope His Dark Materials has a good final season and it doesn’t get bogged down by the media hype of House of the Dragon.
Daniel, I know you're a superfan of Wheel of Time books, but let's be honest that WoT show was a mess lol. It's hard to accept your glimpse of tier list.
I just wish we knew what is holding winds of winter back, I feel a lot of that tension would be lessened if we just knew what was going on there.
The only thing I'm worried about is if these shows do well, it will just reinforce GRRM's mindset of working on side projects and then we will never get the main books. But to be honest, I've lost all hope in ever seeing the main story be finished in book form. Maybe we will get winds in the next 5 years but then you have to think it took 11-15 years to release winds (if it releases), then another 10-15 years for any following book. Is GRRM going to be writing these books when he is 90? no :( But whatever makes the man happy i guess.
If Martin lives to be 90 with his mind intact I’m sure he’ll keep writing these books. He’ll keep doing it infuriatingly slowly and keep being distracted by side projects, though.
Is... is Daniel's bed also a green screen? That's some real dedication.
Even if House of the Dragon is the GOAT of TV, it wont change how GoT is viewed. Because House of the Dragon is a prequel, we all know how it ends on GoT Season 8 and its how a show ends, not how it starts, that is remembered. As for GRRM, he will absolutely not finish the books. We *might* see Winds of Winter (I doubt but hey, its not impossible), but there is NO WAY he is going to live for another 10+ years with enough health to write A Dream of Spring.
House of The Dragon takes place far enough in the past that I don’t really see how GoT’s ending would affect it at all. It would be a different story if they were doing something like Robert’s rebellion, since GoT’s events are a direct continuation of that, but that ship really sailed when they didn’t include much of it in the show.
I honestly doubt Winds of Winter will ever live up to the hype bc of all the years people have been waiting, the GoT Final etc. If it ever comes out it needs to be a goddamn masterpiece to please people
Im looking forward to House of Dragons tho, we shall see
I dont know why this jumped out at me, but I feel like marketing made a poor choice in choosing an august release. Just seeing that giant 8 in the GoT font on the front of the poster is automatically going to make a lot of people think immediently of season 8. Like, even delaying the release 2 weeks would have been smarter in my opinion, just to avoid having a giant 8 on the poster. Or even like just spell out August instead idk, seems like something marketing would have picked up on.
We can only truly move on from season 8 once we have a better alternative ending, something we won’t even come close to without Winds of Winter. George finishing that book and it somehow being worth the wait is the only hope for the IP
It'll probably be good. And no one will care until we get any indication that ASOIAF will ever be completed.
I got into GOT when the show first started, then devoured the books after that. I have read all the ancillary material (World of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood). While I am not a big fan of a lot of what DND did with the final season, I am a die hard of the series. It upsets me how soooo many people have written off the entire show because of that final season. There is SO much great story-telling and revolutionary TV up to that last season I dont see how people can write off the whole show. When it comes to House of the Dragon, im also a bit worried about the writers' credentials.....but the source material is solid, there are a lot of cool, cinematic and dramatic moments in the Dance of Dragons! And, most importantly in my opinion, it has an ending. The problem with DND and GOT is that they had to come up with their own ending and they clearly had no idea how they wanted to do it. They seemed to have gotten bored with the show and jjust wanted to wrap things up and move on to their (now defunct) Star Wars movies. Hopefully the showrunner and writers of HotD stick to the source material and are writing to that ending, not just dovetailing into that dark abyss like DND did.
I don't get it either? I think a vocal minority just gets on a hate bandwagon. I loved the show from Season 1 to midway through Season 8. The entire show was great and I hope House of the Dragon does very well!
I can't wait for it, I love everything that concerns the Targaryens. I hope they don't cut out anything from the story.
This is George's vindication!! I hope it is great. I feel that if it is great, it will give George courage and strength to finish ASOIAF
I think that in the credits of the last episode of House Of The Dragon, Winds Of Winter will get announced.
If Winds is that close to being ready (we can’t know) Martin really should announce it prior to the first season airing to hype people up and get rid of much of the negativity. Still, I wouldn’t bet on Winds being announced this year, even though I obviously hope it will be.
I will likely watch HOTD but might wait a few weeks to see what the consensus is. I'm a little sour on adaptations lately, and I'm salty about GRRM not prioritizing Winds of Winter and then having the audacity to say what he did in his blog post about people asking about WOW. I don't know why he isn't working on it as much as his other side projects, but I think it's going to really affect his legacy if he doesn't finish the series.
That being said, I try to be optimistic and give things a chance, so I'm hoping HOTD is good.
GOT was like lightning in a bottle. Hard to capture that again. BUT GRRM is directly involved and the source material is already written. So we'll see
I expect nothing, but I will see it, and if it will be good I will be more than glad! If it will be bad, well, I will be happy for the people who will enjoy it!
As a massive fan of the Targaryens I am really excited for hotd, especially after seeing the new trailer ... but above anything else I want Winds of Winter. All these new spinoffs sound great (especially the Dunk and Egg series) but I also wouldn't be too upset if they didn't happen, bc what I really care about is the sixth book. From what I've seen, the fanbase in general just wants the main series to be finished. I think everyone would be way more receptive to these spinoffs if it was. But, from HBO's point of view, GoT (the TV show) is a separate franchise from ASOIAF, and I think HBO should be able to continue with it - it's not their fault the books aren't finished. (Although I'm still bitter about S8). I have sympathy for GRRM because he might be struggling with creative burnout/too much pressure but .... it's been TEN YEARS, dude.
I think it'll be great because the producer is a big fan himself and he studied the whole universe etc. Also Martin and he talked much about it and they seem to be a good team
People act like there's an abundance of "quality" shows out there. Forget about GOT's ending. HBO is very award-hungry and they pride themselves in producing quality shows, with quality writing and material. I'll take a chance and click on a HBO original over an Amazon original. 😁
I'm interested in HOTD, the cast is exciting and if they have even half the budget and talent in the costuming and (pre-starbucks) set design department the show will be beautiful to watch. They know they have to really turn it out to be successful, and I hope they do, but I'm not sure I've got it in me for the disappointment that came from season 8 again.
I can't understand ppl who think that this is gonna be bad while they think wheel of time show is great. I mean, as bad season 8 as it was, it was still way better than Amazon's wheel of time. 😂😂
I never really left the fold. I'm in a really big empty church all by myself - there might be other people in here, but it's so big I can't tell.
I personally won't be reading Winds of Winter if it ever releases until A Dream of Spring has a firm release date, because it's now been a decade since I read the books and I'm not willing to put in the time to reread them just to be left hanging indefinitely again - there are other books to read.
It looks gorgeous and has an amazing cast so everything is depending on the writers..
as soon as I had the thought, "I enjoyed Fire & Blood" Daniel smacked me in the mouth lmfaooo
I really just can’t care about side content anymore until the main story is finished being told. I WANT to be excited but it’s hard to make it worth anything when we’re still waiting on the main reason we’re all here.
I'll be reading a book. Problem is that I don't have the feels for any streaming service. Without feels, I probs won't watch, and the streaming service never has the chance to heal my PTSD for GoT's ending. Meanwhile, my reading list is never ending.
Something i have discovered about myself in the last few years is that i don't care about IPs anymore.
A good marvel movie/show came out. I'll watch it.
A meh marvel movie/show came out. Pass.
So, if this show turns out to be good, i'll definitely check it out (and possibly fall in love with (stop laughing!)).
Otherwise, this will also be forgotten with time like the countless other Sci-fi/ fantasy shows we are getting everyday.
I can totally be brought back. I think F&B as well as TWOIAF have a loooooooot of cool concepts that I would be interested to see explored. Am I the only one who wants to see more about the Summer Isles? Maybe it’s just because I’m an islander myself and a huge OP fan, so that makes me want to see more islands and nautical things cuz those are cool.
I hope it's good. I've been reading Fire and Blood recently and it's pretty juicy. I'm looking forward to watching House of the Dragon.
I just googled "suburban sasquatch". I was not ready for this, and I am 36 years old.
1. People can't let go of GRRM not finishing the series. Ultimately, people seem unwilling to leave him be and let him work (or not work) on TWOW. Most people consider his lack of productivity to be unforgiveable, and ultimately, that's going to color the discussion surrounding House of Dragons. I think that's a little childish, but that's just my opinion.
2. That said, House of the Dragon is in a really lucky position because it has great brand recognition. If its good, it will draw numbers. Given time, I think its possible people will stop obsessing over TWOW and GRRM's lack of progress.
3. Regardless, I am waiting to see. The one thing I think is crucial is solid writing. A focus on character, subtlety, and sophistication is what makes the books (and early GOT seasons) so special in my opinion. While the world-building is top-notch and I truly appreciate the grimdark aspect, its the above mentioned elements that truly shine. The early seasons of GOT really picked up on that too! In those first four seasons, notice how many quiet, under-stated, smart scenes there are that last over FIVE MINUTES LONG. The later seasons just threw that in the bin. In HOD, the writing needs to go BIG in terms of quality. Everything else will be secondary and as we found out during GOT's tenure, special effects and "mature themes" alone won't cut it.
I don't think its possible to be seen the same, a lot of people at best are going to wait to see if its good. And even if it is a lot of people are going to say well the last one was good too and might watch it when it call comes out. To me this feels kinda like a good fun friend who is a really bad drunk on night. At the next party you might be willing to come again but there is a lack of trust and you are just waiting to see if things go wrong again.
Winds of Winter is the next ASOIF content I consume. I will ignore anything till then
Not to plug my own podcast, but we did a podcast episode on this subject.
I have faith. The story is written so it can't be ruined by bad writers. They're using some of the directors from the best GofT episodes. It'll be fine.
2:08 while I was not on the internet/watching shows at the time, I don't feel GoT really made that change. Band of Brothers and Rome from HBO I would say started going on that route much earlier. I might be wrong, considering the internet wasn't the biggest thing when these two shows aired, but really helped GoT.