The Summar is an interesting lens indeed. Since it is very old, specimens vary widely in performance. You seem to have a very nice copy. Most copies suffer from glas corrosion (and scratches in the soft front element). You can notice it by a milky haze in strong light. It cannot be removed by solvents. Only polishing will remedy that. (Can be done at home -- carefully! -- with cerium oxide paste.) Your copy of the Summitar seems to be not so good. As to sharpness and contrast across the field (not in the centre!), it should easily outperform the Summar. Still, the Summar draws in a unique and nice way, especially for portraits. // I did like the images taken with the burnt curtain 😃.
Thanks, my Summar was a hazy copy but I gave it a quite clean and hey presto. (Just started to learn how to clean.. finally so now have the kit). Agree my Summitar looks like it needs a clean. Some forum users confirm my results in that the Summar can match the later models if you find a clean copy, especially in the centre.
I always loved the Summar. Now I have a coated version and it has high resolution in the centre and very nice out-of-focus areas. It's one of my favourites lenses!
Ahhhhh - the Summar - indeed!!! This unique & creative glow.. more than 'sharp enough' - in fact - one forgets about 'sharpness' with these wonderful, early-thirties lenses, as creativity and 'humanness' is much more important!! Thank you so much, again, for yet another, truly wonderful video!! Do tell me next time you are in Cologne and I'll 'give you' my Summarex, as this lens will really blow your mind - it is a direct 'sibling' to the Summar - Max Berek's 'finest hour' - !!
I have a Summar in my collection, one of my better ebay buys. It's in good condition even the glass. My favourites of the Leitz vintage lenses are the Summitars but maybe I'm a bit biased! The sweet spot Summitars, IMHO, are the post war coated ten bladed ones. The first one I had came attached to a IIIC K I bought in the 70s and sold both camera and lens in the 80s. On reflection a silly act on my part. The next one about ten years back again from ebay came attached to another IIIc, I like that model, it turned out that both needed attention and the lens was described as '"scrap' by one well known London dealer. So I bought a replacement one from them. I often looked at it and admired it's appearance as the casing was really clean. Having nothing to loose I removed the front lens group which is ready my wife used some make up removal pads which removed the rust of the leaves and I cleaned the face of any exposed glass surfaces as I didn't have the skills or knowledge to go further. It's easy to remove iris leaves but putting them back is rather different. So having one fully working one meant the iris less other one could be used just wide open and it worked well on one of my digital cameras! After numerous attempts at getting the ten blades back I have upvand sent it to Alan Starkie who gave the lens a full service hence my ownership of two Summitars. Locally Im known as 'Billy Two Summitars', ermmmm no I'm not that's a silly joke. Sorry for the ramble Matt.
My copy showed pretty strong haze which I assumed was down to cleaning marks on the front element. Dismantling and cleaning the front three elements made a massive difference. Highlights glow slightly and contra jour photos are possible
This is a classic example of the old computer programmer adage that one test is worth a thousand opinions. You tested the lens and showed the results. I like vintage lenses. I may be tempted.. My '43 CZJ 5cm f/1.5 has sweet characteristics, too. And the vintage lenses soften digital nicely. I need more talent not more lenses. LOL But, . . . Thanks for a thoroughly researched and well presented viseo.
Thank you for this excellent video. Photos look great. Models are fantastic. I'd be curious to learn about any close focus adapter for the IIIG and M3 (aside from the Summicron DR), if they exist.
Thanks! Leica iiiG - not sure if any options (as VF is higher). M3 you have the DR and Elmar 50mm f2.8 (those are all I know of for 50s sadly) I tried to fit the Summar to the Elmar goggles but it won't fit.
Hi Matt. Firstly I want to give U my congratulations for your channel. I love vintage lenses and I love the way you use them. I would like asking U if you use to use the focus assistant of your camera, such as digital zoom in the viewfinder or in the screen. I normaly use my Fujifilm XT-1 with Canon FD lenses, and I need to use the digital zoom for perfect focus. Thank U so much and keep it up.
Sorry Matt, those dots are just degects in the Foma films. I have had them a plenty in the 200 in 135, 120 and 4X5 and occasionally with the 100 in 4X5, but I have never had them in 135. This is the main reason that I don't use Fom a films any more. Better to pay an exyra 25% but be safe.
@@DrBrianOCallaghan I havealso had the white variety of this as well. If you look at the emulsion after development using a magnifying glass you'd see hundreds of purple coloured specs( thats why they show up as white in the photo ), as if it has not been developed or for some reason the developer hasn't got to it. Very strange.
Hi Matt Great informative and perfect video. But you know that yourself. Great models and of course the pictures too. Last week a Summarit 1.5/5cm and on Friday a Summicron DR with the corresponding M3 SS jumped into my bag. All at a very good price with cla on the M3. Well, now I have an M3 again.😁 Lg Anderl
It’s my favorite and most used lens for nearly a year now. 🎉. Do you know any +1 diopters that will fit the Summar ? Or do you think the Nooky Hesum would work with Sony E Mount? And where did you get the extended lens hood?
Have you thought about a comparison between vintage Contax I and II lenses such as the Sonnar against the vintage LTM Leica lenses. Again shooting on digital cameras and on film.
My only collapsable lens is attached to my Rollei 35 LED. How worrying using a collapsable lens accidentally damage sensor on digital cameras? I often wanted to buy these tiny lenses to use on my Sony cameras but worry about this happening. Presumably best to mount fully extended to be safe. Great video as always and thanks for sharing.
Hi Victor, unless you use a large sensor MF camera you can't hit the sensor as even if the lens is too big inside it hits the light baffles around the sensor (camera body) so no harm can be done. With a big sensor the lens would have space to hit it directly in theory.
The black dots might be some dust in the lens. It usually doesn't show wide open but from my own experience and much to my surprise those dust particles will kick in after 5,6 and higher aperture.
I have two of them an ML and something else. Both working up to now. Proper pocket camera with a beautiful lens which is reputed to have bedn designed bu one of Leica optical engineers.
you got to get the elements repolished to get better contrast and sharpness. I can send you a file that's Sharp from my Leica M8.2 with my 1937 Summar that was for service by my camera repair technician....
Hey! I'm confused about using the FIKUS hood as I've read that it would vignette on the summar. You seem to use it extended up to 135mm. How on earth does that work out with no vignetting at all apertures?
It seems to depend on the light (and possibly camera). Digital vignettes easier than film on most lenses I think + when I shot some lower lit portraits I really saw it but the rest of the time I didn't seem to notice. Use it at say 90mm if worried.
No mainly as to get the best from this lens you use the LLL close focus adapter. (To get close on digital). LLL adapter does not transfer EXIF so no code needed. If you use on a Leica M use any Leica 50 f2 code (the oldest listed)
WHY ? no Canon L39 50mm 1.2 ? Mark ; you need to review one of those with a good inner block , like my KANTO rebuild ... Why no L39 Canon 50mm 1.2 ? Me: Canon 0.95 (rebuilt ) M , Canon L39 50mm 1.2 (rebuilt ) KANTO , Canon L39 50mm 1.4 , Canon L39 85mm 1.8 (rebuilt ) KANTO .... try out the Canon 50mm 1.2 a good one.
Kanto actually had to commission the manufacture of a replacement lens element for the 50/1.2 to replace the one that deteriorates, didn't they? I had a 50/1.2 years ago with my Canon VI-T but ditched it because it just seemed mushy rather than “characterful”, so I got a 50/1.4 instead. Would be interesting to see how much difference the rebuild makes!
Black dots are a feature of poor quality control of this Fomapan film. Pretty sure that this is a film fault - I gave up on Fomapan after results like this. Fomapan often suffers from issues like this - not seen it as much on the 100 but the 200 is terrible for black dots.
See that previous video (15 lenses..) those will win for contrast and flare and it's closer to the Elmar where it's improved with a hood (being uncoated)
I don't care much about reviews and what all the two bit reviewers say. Two decades ago, I bought a Sigma 24-60 F2.8 to go on to my D70. When I read the reviews everyone said that it was rubbish. yeats later when I got my D800 I put the lens on it and it happened to produce beautifully sharp images through its range, a bit weaker @ the 60mm end but which F2.8 zoom isn't? If it makes good photos, then its good. Never mind the reviews.
I have different versions of Summar 50/2, uncoated, coated, post version and tropical various. The performance of Summar 50/2 is differ from other Leica 50mm lenses. When shooting with wild open, the picture quality is soft and only the centre part sharp with interesting circular bokeh.
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The Summar is an interesting lens indeed. Since it is very old, specimens vary widely in performance. You seem to have a very nice copy. Most copies suffer from glas corrosion (and scratches in the soft front element). You can notice it by a milky haze in strong light. It cannot be removed by solvents. Only polishing will remedy that. (Can be done at home -- carefully! -- with cerium oxide paste.) Your copy of the Summitar seems to be not so good. As to sharpness and contrast across the field (not in the centre!), it should easily outperform the Summar. Still, the Summar draws in a unique and nice way, especially for portraits. // I did like the images taken with the burnt curtain 😃.
Thanks, my Summar was a hazy copy but I gave it a quite clean and hey presto. (Just started to learn how to clean.. finally so now have the kit). Agree my Summitar looks like it needs a clean. Some forum users confirm my results in that the Summar can match the later models if you find a clean copy, especially in the centre.
I always loved the Summar. Now I have a coated version and it has high resolution in the centre and very nice out-of-focus areas. It's one of my favourites lenses!
Great! I know some lenses we coated at a later date
Ahhhhh - the Summar - indeed!!! This unique & creative glow.. more than 'sharp enough' - in fact - one forgets about 'sharpness' with these wonderful, early-thirties lenses, as creativity and 'humanness' is much more important!! Thank you so much, again, for yet another, truly wonderful video!!
Do tell me next time you are in Cologne and I'll 'give you' my Summarex, as this lens will really blow your mind - it is a direct 'sibling' to the Summar - Max Berek's 'finest hour' - !!
Thank you and thanks!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom ...As I had promised you loooong ago... !!!
I have a Summar in my collection, one of my better ebay buys. It's in good condition even the glass. My favourites of the Leitz vintage lenses are the Summitars but maybe I'm a bit biased!
The sweet spot Summitars, IMHO, are the post war coated ten bladed ones. The first one I had came attached to a IIIC K I bought in the 70s and sold both camera and lens in the 80s. On reflection a silly act on my part.
The next one about ten years back again from ebay came attached to another IIIc, I like that model, it turned out that both needed attention and the lens was described as '"scrap' by one well known London dealer. So I bought a replacement one from them.
I often looked at it and admired it's appearance as the casing was really clean. Having nothing to loose I removed the front lens group which is ready my wife used some make up removal pads which removed the rust of the leaves and I cleaned the face of any exposed glass surfaces as I didn't have the skills or knowledge to go further. It's easy to remove iris leaves but putting them back is rather different. So having one fully working one meant the iris less other one could be used just wide open and it worked well on one of my digital cameras!
After numerous attempts at getting the ten blades back I have upvand sent it to Alan Starkie who gave the lens a full service hence my ownership of two Summitars. Locally Im known as 'Billy Two Summitars', ermmmm no I'm not that's a silly joke. Sorry for the ramble Matt.
Haha thanks! Yes these old lens copies can vary a lot (and yes easy to remove the front elements, I did the same!
My copy showed pretty strong haze which I assumed was down to cleaning marks on the front element. Dismantling and cleaning the front three elements made a massive difference. Highlights glow slightly and contra jour photos are possible
Thanks Adrian! Funny you mention that. See the next video!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I should add that your review is as ever so good. The Canon 50/1.2 LTM is another maligned lens worth of attention
This is a classic example of the old computer programmer adage that one test is worth a thousand opinions. You tested the lens and showed the results. I like vintage lenses. I may be tempted.. My '43 CZJ 5cm f/1.5 has sweet characteristics, too. And the vintage lenses soften digital nicely. I need more talent not more lenses. LOL But, . . . Thanks for a thoroughly researched and well presented viseo.
Thanks Sandy! You can get them in Nickel and Rigid versions if you want the more fancy ones but many sure without scratches etc
Thank you for this excellent video. Photos look great. Models are fantastic. I'd be curious to learn about any close focus adapter for the IIIG and M3 (aside from the Summicron DR), if they exist.
Thanks! Leica iiiG - not sure if any options (as VF is higher). M3 you have the DR and Elmar 50mm f2.8 (those are all I know of for 50s sadly) I tried to fit the Summar to the Elmar goggles but it won't fit.
Great review. Just as I bought the Summitar two weeks ago 😂
There is huge copy variation snd the Summitar should be better so don’t worry
Massive fan of the really close up images ! Well done Matt. Cheers !
Thanks George, me too!
Interesting review. I have the vintage 50 mm Xenon (1939). It is a character lens wide open. Good on my M8.2 especially b&w.
Great, I’ve not used that one yet
Never seen the close focus adapter for the Leica III cameras. I love the pictures you got with it. Still amazed how precise it is. :-)
Thanks Tobi! In a model environment the hit rate wasn't the best as so easy to miss at f2 but the ones that did work were great.
Hi Matt. Firstly I want to give U my congratulations for your channel. I love vintage lenses and I love the way you use them. I would like asking U if you use to use the focus assistant of your camera, such as digital zoom in the viewfinder or in the screen. I normaly use my Fujifilm XT-1 with Canon FD lenses, and I need to use the digital zoom for perfect focus. Thank U so much and keep it up.
Thanks! On Leica M I use RF. On SL I use zoom to check focus for every lens.
I had the same effect. "Seagulls" may be a contaminated fixative. Filtering the fixative helped me, or just make a new one.
Ha, someone else suggested fixer was too strong and I replenished old fixer so I might chuck it and start fresh. Thanks
Sorry Matt, those dots are just degects in the Foma films. I have had them a plenty in the 200 in 135, 120 and 4X5 and occasionally with the 100 in 4X5, but I have never had them in 135. This is the main reason that I don't use Fom a films any more. Better to pay an exyra 25% but be safe.
Thanks, I've had this too and could not work out what it was.
Interesting thanks. As you may know I've shot a lot of Foma over the last decade so I guess it was finally my time.
@@DrBrianOCallaghan I havealso had the white variety of this as well. If you look at the emulsion after development using a magnifying glass you'd see hundreds of purple coloured specs( thats why they show up as white in the photo ), as if it has not been developed or for some reason the developer hasn't got to it. Very strange.
Hi Matt
Great informative and perfect video. But you know that yourself. Great models and of course the pictures too. Last week a Summarit 1.5/5cm and on Friday a Summicron DR with the corresponding M3 SS jumped into my bag. All at a very good price with cla on the M3. Well, now I have an M3 again.😁
Lg Anderl
Thanks and very nice! The DR is great on the M3 especially.
I also use the 50 on the 240, but you have to be careful when attaching it. You have to go into close focus here so it can be attached.
Lg Anderl
It’s my favorite and most used lens for nearly a year now. 🎉.
Do you know any +1 diopters that will fit the Summar ?
Or do you think the Nooky Hesum would work with Sony E Mount?
And where did you get the extended lens hood?
See recent video about lens hood, I think it was the 15 lens vidro. Yes great lens. Just use helicoid adapter like you see me using on SL
Have you thought about a comparison between vintage Contax I and II lenses such as the Sonnar against the vintage LTM Leica lenses.
Again shooting on digital cameras and on film.
See my other videos as I’ve covered the Sonnar before, in the recent 15 lens test too*
My only collapsable lens is attached to my Rollei 35 LED. How worrying using a collapsable lens accidentally damage sensor on digital cameras? I often wanted to buy these tiny lenses to use on my Sony cameras but worry about this happening. Presumably best to mount fully extended to be safe. Great video as always and thanks for sharing.
Hi Victor, unless you use a large sensor MF camera you can't hit the sensor as even if the lens is too big inside it hits the light baffles around the sensor (camera body) so no harm can be done. With a big sensor the lens would have space to hit it directly in theory.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thank you very much, that helps a lot.
The black dots might be some dust in the lens. It usually doesn't show wide open but from my own experience and much to my surprise those dust particles will kick in after 5,6 and higher aperture.
Thanks, an interesting thought. It doesn't affect all stopped down images. Others think it's the Fomapan film stock or the fixer.
I have the Summitar, vintage 1953, it's a fantastic looking 50mm. I think it's safe to say, Leica never made a bad 50mm, both M and LTM mount.
Great! Yes these old Leica 50s can be lovely!
As always great info and images. Thanks Matt...
Thanks!
They used to say some are and some aren’t. Bad copies were not uncommon in the past. Perhaps a modern version would be more consistent?
I'm sure there are bad copies. Being so old many have scratches/ haze etc
I love my 1935 Sumar lens. I use an adapter so I can use them on my M cameras
Great! Yes they work well on M cameras too ofc.
I really like these lenses myself. A lot have badly scratched front elements, best get one that is clean as possible.
Thanks and yes great advice!
Fabulous discussion ! ! !
RS. Canada
Thanks Richard!
I think that should I buy a Leica again, I will pair it with a Summar. Try a Minox 35ml. The lens is seriously sharp!
Yes great lens!
I have two of them an ML and something else. Both working up to now. Proper pocket camera with a beautiful lens which is reputed to have bedn designed bu one of Leica optical engineers.
you got to get the elements repolished to get better contrast and sharpness. I can send you a file that's Sharp from my Leica M8.2 with my 1937 Summar that was for service by my camera repair technician....
Yes I know that will return these old lenses to their former glory. Mine isn't bad enough to repollish but I know it's possible. Thanks!
Excellent stuff Matt
Thanks!
Lol, I have this closeup adapter but never knew what it was for 😂😂😂
Haha, now you know!
Hey! I'm confused about using the FIKUS hood as I've read that it would vignette on the summar.
You seem to use it extended up to 135mm. How on earth does that work out with no vignetting at all apertures?
It seems to depend on the light (and possibly camera). Digital vignettes easier than film on most lenses I think + when I shot some lower lit portraits I really saw it but the rest of the time I didn't seem to notice. Use it at say 90mm if worried.
Have you 6-bit coded the screw-to-M adapter that you used for the Summar on your Leica SL? If so what code did you use?
No mainly as to get the best from this lens you use the LLL close focus adapter. (To get close on digital). LLL adapter does not transfer EXIF so no code needed. If you use on a Leica M use any Leica 50 f2 code (the oldest listed)
WHY ? no Canon L39 50mm 1.2 ? Mark ; you need to review one of those with a good inner block , like my KANTO rebuild ... Why no L39 Canon 50mm 1.2 ?
Me: Canon 0.95 (rebuilt ) M , Canon L39 50mm 1.2 (rebuilt ) KANTO , Canon L39 50mm 1.4 , Canon L39 85mm 1.8 (rebuilt ) KANTO .... try out the Canon 50mm 1.2 a good one.
It's coming Chris! Re-watch the clip of me with Asha and take note of the lens on the SL ;)
Kanto actually had to commission the manufacture of a replacement lens element for the 50/1.2 to replace the one that deteriorates, didn't they? I had a 50/1.2 years ago with my Canon VI-T but ditched it because it just seemed mushy rather than “characterful”, so I got a 50/1.4 instead. Would be interesting to see how much difference the rebuild makes!
What lens hoods do you use Matt? I’m using the IUFOO, but yours look better! ATB, Carl
Please see the recent video on 50mm RF lenses. I did a whole video about it
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom will do. I can’t keep up with all your content!
"A hole in my shutter", the fear of every Leica photographer.
"A hole in my shoe", the famous song by Traffic in 1967.
Thanks Jaco! Yes I felt quite dumb after I saw it
Black dots are a feature of poor quality control of this Fomapan film. Pretty sure that this is a film fault - I gave up on Fomapan after results like this. Fomapan often suffers from issues like this - not seen it as much on the 100 but the 200 is terrible for black dots.
Thanks! I've used a lot of Foma 100 over the years (as you may know) and maybe I've been lucky so far. Thanks for sharing.
How would it compare to Nikkor 50 H.C. or S.C. ltm?
See that previous video (15 lenses..) those will win for contrast and flare and it's closer to the Elmar where it's improved with a hood (being uncoated)
Great video
Thanks
1:48 White wagtail
Ah very good! I would have guessed wagtail (I was in the YOC as a kid so I know the common UK varieties still)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Oh, RSBC YOC, I still do Birdwatching 🐍
Surge bubbles?
Thanks, people seem to think it's the fixer (which is very possible as I need to make a fresh lot)
I don't care much about reviews and what all the two bit reviewers say. Two decades ago, I bought a Sigma 24-60 F2.8 to go on to my D70. When I read the reviews everyone said that it was rubbish. yeats later when I got my D800 I put the lens on it and it happened to produce beautifully sharp images through its range, a bit weaker @ the 60mm end but which F2.8 zoom isn't? If it makes good photos, then its good. Never mind the reviews.
Ok
Thanks
I have different versions of Summar 50/2, uncoated, coated, post version and tropical various. The performance of Summar 50/2 is differ from other Leica 50mm lenses. When shooting with wild open, the picture quality is soft and only the centre part sharp with interesting circular bokeh.
Very nice! Yes great for portraits but softer edges.