Investigating Postal Rarities with a NYC Auctioneer:
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- New York Auctioneer, Charles Epting, investigates some incredible US postal rarities with us. Are some of these fake? Are they real? Charles lays out the evidence for the viewers to decide. Lets explore the Chittenden Eagle and Noisy Carrier's Cancellation, along with some interesting Civil War Provisionals at the HR Harmer office in NYC.
#history #collecting
__Video Contents___
00:00 - Intro
01:56 - Abraham Lincoln Cover
03:12 - Alexandria "Blue Boy"
03:50 - Erivan Haub
05:46 - Civil War Cover Horn Lake MS
09:07 - Texas Confederate Blue Stamps
17:30 - 'Noisy Carriers' Fake Cancellation
24:31 - Famous Chittenden Eagle (& Fakes)
33:54 - Ending & Contact Info
HR Harmer Links
hrharmer.com/
Instagram: / hrharmer
Twitter: / hrharmer
UA-cam: www.youtube.com/@h.r.harmerfi...
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Links to Some Topics Discussed
History of HR Harmer: hrharmer.com/about-us
Learn about Pony Express: www.ponyexpress.org/
More about the Lincoln Pony Express Cover: www.liveauctioneers.com/news/...
Alexandria "Blue Boy" Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexand...
The Philatelic Foundation: www.philatelicfoundation.org/
Civil War Philatelic Society: www.civilwarphilatelicsociety...
1982 Santa Ana Article featuring John A. Fox: exploringstamps.files.wordpre...
Excellent Database of Fancy Cancels: stampsmarter.org/features/Fan...
Thanks so much Graham--it was wonderful collaborating with you!
We had such a great time, thank you Charles and the HR Harmer Team 😊
Excellent investigatory work, H.R. Harmer 👏
Terrific episode
I want that machine ;-) Great research work btw
Wow! So incredibly interesting. Charles just blew me away with his philatelic knowledge, insight, and articulate analysis of these postal exhibits. It's quite obvious that Charles has spent his young life studying all facets of philatelic history. Even though I've followed Charles through his 'Conversations with Philatelists' channel, I have an even greater respect for his contribution to the philatelic community. Thanks Graham for another superb episode........absolutely loved it!!
Thank you Gary 😊. I knew you would enjoy this episode. Charles is master of his trade, and seeing him talk about his work and explain the fascinating circumstances to which stamps and covers were produced was beyond fascinating. Thanks so much for watching!!
Thanks, Gary! This is incredibly kind of you. It was an amazing experience to collaborate with Graham.
15:25
Fascinating
Absolutely! I learned a lot!
Yes!
Graham and Charles, this episode was absolutely fascinating. The entire situation with the Chittenden Eagle read like it was out of a mystery/thriller novel or movie. Thank you both for sharing!
Thank you Jack! 😊 I had to edit out a lot of “wow”s that I was saying during the Chittenden Eagle story 😂 it was so cool to have Charles walk me through his investigation. Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!
Wow! Packed with history, mystery, forgery/crime, science - love it!
A video with a little bit of everything 😊. Thank you David, glad you enjoyed it!!
Great episode. Interesting to see Charles explain some of the work he has gone through to see if the items he has are genuine or "altered". Thanks for sharing this with collectors.
I had such a great time exploring all these covers that Charles shared, glad you also found it interesting 😊 Thanks for watching, Les.
Thank you, Les! It was great to share some of our favorite stories.
"VSC 8000"....It HAS to be a fancy piece of tech with a name like that. 😂
Great video, thank you both! I learned a lot!
I dunno... the 8000 model doesnt even have a cup holder. 😅. Thanks Penny, glad you enjoyed it.
We were pretty blown away by it ourselves! Thank you for watching!
FASCINATING! I didnt really know anything about the postal situation during the Civil War, I have a new appreciation for it. Thank you for sharing.
Same! I think I now also have an appreciation for the postal history from this time. Thanks for watching, Markus 😊
This is supremely interesting - though I don't collect US material the principles involved apply broadly. And, WOW!, extremely well produced. Well doner guys!
Thank you Allan! YES the principles apply to global philately, I learned a lot from Charles while producing this episode, so fascinating! Thanks so much for watching, glad you enjoyed it 😊
Loved this episode. I love the historical information about the Civil War Postal knowledge. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thank you Robert! I learned a LOT from Charles in this episode, but I think the lesson about how the CSA scrambled to find stamps and use them was the most enlightening of all the facts I learned. Thanks for watching :)
Very interesting and informative vid on early American postal history, thanks for sharing ! History is mystery. Greets from GER, U.
Glad you enjoyed it 😊 Thank you for watching in Germany.
From beginning to end, I found this SO interesting. Well Done both of you!
Thank you Evelyn 😊. Glad you enjoyed it!
we need to have a sequel of this episode
I don’t think Charles will run out of interesting covers to show us 🤔😆
We're game!
Envelopes are holding the mysterious history. Thank you for fhe great episode.
They sure are fascinating covers! Glad you enjoyed the episode, Sara. Thanks for watching 😊
Fascinating! As a collector of postal history and Confederate stamps, I find this stuff hugely interesting. Makes you think there may still be unfound treasures out there just waiting to be discovered.
oooo, and I love forgeries too, so this ticks many boxes!
I was thinking the same, there MUST be unfound treasures out there. Glad you enjoyed the video, James. Thanks for watching 😊
Yes. Oodles.
Wow, this is riveting! Thankyou both for leaving nothing unexplained. Crystal clear stuff. 👌
Glad you enjoyed it, Terence. 😊 thanks for watching!
every stamp tells a story - every cover tells a thousand.. Cheers guys, an excellent vid and just the reason I love collecting Ottoman covers. Even any forgeries are a legend in themselves.
Absolutely! Covers are just wonderful windows to the past 😊. Glad you enjoyed the episode, thanks for watching!
Congratulations on a new philatelic designation: Charles Epting, Forensic Philatelist/Auctioneer !
“CSI Philately” could be a prime time show starring Charles 😎
After watching this video it makes me feel more fascinated by philately.
Thank you Grham and Charles😀
Same! The more I learn, the more I am fascinated! Thanks for watching, Richard 😊
Thank you, Richard!
Excellent video. Really enjoyed it. I'm not a US stamp collector but found it thoroughly interesting and informative. Thank you
Thank you Matty, great to see that you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching 😊
Very interesting episode Graham - what a unique insight into high-end philately!
☺️ glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Fabulous episode! Keep up this incredible work. Appreciated by more than you imagine
Thank you Regan 😊. Glad to see that you are enjoying the content. Thanks for watching!
One of your best episodes ever. Thanks. Extremely interesting. Cheers from Sweden.
Wow thank you Hans, so great to see that you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching in Sweden :)
Interesting and good to be educated. Last year I purchased an 1850’s UK cover from a dealer and showed it to another dealer; the first considers it genuine, the second dealer thinks not, it’s contrived, that is, a genuine wrapper, two genuine stamps married together sometime after the 1850’s. A third dealer ‘sat on the fence’ and didn’t commit an opinion either way. I have since been made aware of another UK cover, offered at auction with the same combination of stamps purportedly from the same time period. Is mine actually a genuine, postally used item? I don’t know. The dealer I purchased from offered a full refund, but I have kept the cover as a lesson - always do your research and don’t be too in love with an item you want.
Wow. The more people I meet in the hobby, the more I learn about philatelists purchasing contrived covers such as yours. It is both fascinating and irritating that the hobby has such a dilemma, but it is good to see that the dealer offered a full refund. Interesting to see that you kept it, I love that idea of keeping it as a lesson. As Charles shows us in this episode, even the experts get it wrong...we should all do our own research. Thank you for sharing Peter!!
@@ExploringStamps it is only in the last few years as I have become more specialised that I have realised that doing research sometimes and not being too starry-eyed, particularly since I sometimes spend some money (I still keep to a budget) on these items = more money you spend the more research you may need to do and more hardheaded you need to be. About this cover I felt a bit of a punch in the guts when dealer number two said, "faked"! I can send a picture of the cover and the dealer commentary so you can see what I mean.
Very nice episode. Good collaboration as well. 👍👏👏👏
Thank you 😊 Glad you enjoyed it!!
Absolutely fascinating video, especially Charles's explanations about the Chittenden Eagle and Noisy Carrier, those really drew me in it was like a Philatelic CSI :D
I've been listening to 'Conversations with Philatelists' over the past half year since I got back into philately and have been impressed by his work just as much as I've been with yours. All the best from a fan in the Netherlands and getting me and my mom back into Philately over the past year after a 3 decades long hiatus!
Thank you 😊. So great to see that you enjoyed the episode, I am also a fan of Charles' work, so it was really cool to work with him on this video. Thank you so much for watching!
At any time you have a stamp which in 'used' condition, its catalogue valuation is far greater, than its mint counterpart, exercise commonsense, and caution. This aspect is not confined to one collecting area, but may be encountered in many to a greateer or lesser degree. Often ths is a consequence of turmoil; war, economic, or political instability, among others. Sadly, and all too often I see such stamps in exhibits.
It is a VERY good point. Once there is an opportunity to contrive something for fraud, such as turning mint items into a valuable used cover with postmarks...someone will do it.
@@ExploringStamps, And it's a problem that philately has failed to deal with. The best way is acquiring the necessary knowledge, and that entails making an effort. Need I say more?
These videos are fascinating, I never knew how much effort went into these stamps and cancellations and to ascertain if they are real or fake. It is proper investigation work and it was a pleasure to learn a bit more about the process.
Thank you 😊. So glad to see that you found the video interesting, I was fascinated by Charles' explanation of how he investigated the forgeries. Thanks for watching!
The gentleman certainly knows how to present his material. Well thought out and so very interesting. Great questions Graham! Thanks again!
Thanks Wayne, he sure does know his stuff. Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Thanks Graham, that was a really interesting venture into philatelic history. The video was chock full of interesting facts and I applaud the work that Charles has done and its so refreshing to see that there are still those who value honesty over profits!! Thanks again!!
Thanks Rich,
So great to see that you enjoyed it 😊. Thanks for watching!
Wow what an episode. Definately need a sequel!!
Thanks Graham for a great informational presentation. I was so enthralled by this topic I had no clue was out there. Again thanks for your dedication to the stamp world. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it, John 😊 Thanks for watching!
Another fascinating program! Thanks Charles and Graham!
Thank you Nyle, glad you enjoyed it 😊
Wow! Great show! Charles is certainly a leader in the world of philately. His knowledge is extremely advanced. Also being a young man it counters the often stated myth that young people aren't into philately.
It also counters the myth that a young man can't impress a lady with their philatelic knowledge, being that his fiancee was so impressed with what he had discovered. Of course when I was young man and tried to use my stamp collection to impress the ladies they would always just say, "Philately will get you nowhere."😮
Charles Epting has done wonders in revitalizing H. R. Harmer into a powerhouse philatelic firm. The material I have purchased from his auctions is top quality and of historical note. Hope you visit with him Again.
Absolutely! Charles is just a short train ride away, I hope to visit again in the near future 😊 thanks for watching, Chai
I'm late to the comments section this time around but what an amazing episode yet again! I second (third? forth? twentieth?) everything that's been said by other viewers about the exciting CSI/ forensic philatelist vibes from Charles! Thanks Graham and Charles for a wonderful collab!
This is why I have a passion for philately! Great show!!!
Very interesting indeed. The more attention you give to forgeries in your episodes Graham, the more paranoid I get regarding my own collection:-) Jokes aside, this is really valuable information and I realise I still have so much to learn about my own collection and about what to be wary of during online auctions! Thank you again!
😅 same! I do get nervous about the few ‘pricey’ items in my collection. Thanks so much Kees, glad you enjoyed it!
This was a very comprehensive video and your presentation was very engaging. I wish I knew about you a few years back. I had a large collection I sold as a lot which included a handful of postmaster hand stamps. Didn't realize the value of what I had until later on. Some of the pieces I had were unheard of and seemingly undocumented. Wish I had some pictures still to verify what they were. Appreciate all the history you provided.
Very interesting topic. I look forward to more videos like this.
Great!! I hope to make more like this, thank you so much for watching 😊
Thank you Graham and Charles! A fascinating and interesting episode! Great investigative work and forensic science by Charles. Analytical and thorough. Knowing nothing about the subject I would probably agree with Charles's conclusions just based on his thoroughness, reasoning and knowledge. Scary that there are these forgeries out there.
Thank you! It is quite scary knowing that forgeries are out there, AND that they can often fool the experts. Glad you found it fascinating 😊 Thanks for watching!
Very interesting episode!
I recently watched a documentary claiming that half of the fine art out there done by famous artists are forgeries. So no surprise as it's the same in every market where items become valuable. I often wonder about the over prints I see and have.
Thanks for bringing us another informative episode.
That’s crazy! It just shows how important it is to understand an item’s provenance and work with a trusted dealer/auction house with expensive items. Thanks for watching, Jim. 😊 glad you found it interesting!
Wonderful, fascinating discussion.
Thank you 😊
Great video !
Thank you 😊
Stamps tell history that cannot be altered no matter how hard some try. To a true stamp collector, it’s the historical value that is more valuable than any misprint.
👍👍
What an entertaining video! I learned a lot. It's a credit to Charles's forensic use of philatelic archives, and also a cautionary tale in not (always) believing expert committees. I'd love to know how Charles went about breaking the news to the Chittenden Eagles' vendor (unless he owns them himself, in which case I sympathise over the hole he just burned in his pocket).
Glad you enjoyed it, Punk 😊. I’m guessing that Charles handled/delivered the news more elegantly than I could have… it’s one thing to hear the story, another to be involved. Thanks for watching!!
Fab episode!! Very well done.
Thank you Isaac 😊
Very interesting episode. Whilst there is a obviously a big negative on people who create forgeries, I sometime find myself in awe of the actual artistic talent they have.
I feel the same way about forgeries and forgers. 😅 Thanks for watching, Iain.
Totally impressed with Charles' integrity.
We need an Objectivity x Exploring Stamps crossover video!
That is an interesting channel! Thanks for pointing them out, I'm a bit too small for them but you never know!
Fascinating history as always! A novice collector has to be careful.
Absolutely! Can’t be too careful, thanks Buzza Wuzza! 😊
Super interesting video! Loved it!
Thank you 😊 glad you enjoyed it!
My goodness; have you, come a long way. Your becoming, exactly what you assumed, you could be. Great presentations, with where-with-all. What is truly needed, is an actual academic course of study, in philately. Personally, I just had, a terrible experience with APS. Experts can say and do, as they please, as they see fit, without any sort of reserve or repercussions, for a mistake.
Wonderful collab! Great info!
Thank you Maddi 😊
Nice video amazing your collection
Thank you.
Wow, fascinating world of philately....
It is indeed! 😊 Thanks for watching, Ralph
This was so interesting! I know almost nothing about American history so I found all these pieces really interesting and their stories fascinating. I hope you get lots of great feedback and opinions!
Glad you enjoyed it, Sarah 😊 . We got some interesting input from some of the viewers already, the online philatelic community is amazing. Thanks for watching :)
Super program!
Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Very interesting!
Thank you 😊
That was a fine episode. In the 1960s and early 1970s, there were loads of imitation coins, medals, political buttons, etc. Many of these were manufactured in response to the pending Bicentennial of the American Revolution.
The problem was addressed by the Hobby Protection Act of 1973, which placed requirements upon production and distribution of such items. Interestingly, this law only applied to "numismatic" (in overbroad categorization) items. There is no catch all for items from other hobby segments like philatelics, deltiology, scripophily, etc.
Consequently, the only reasonable opportunity to attack producers of non-numismatic replicas was fraud by catching them attempting to sell them under misrepresentation. I believe this remains the case to this day in the United States.
Geez thise are clearly fakes. How a committee declared them genuine is scary. Good job you nailed it those are fake
Insightful and interesting. Let’s have more ‘expert speak’ on your show.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yes I hope to have more ‘expert speak’, I enjoy listening and learning from them. Thanks for watching 😊
Great show !! Thanks > Kevin in France
Thanks Kevin 😊 Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome show.
Thank you Daniel 😊
Hi This is a bit out of context do you have catalogue of IYC 1979 .This would be very helpful.I actually a new collector.
This was really cool.
😊 glad you liked it
Try westpex a stamp show that’s just across from San Francisco airport at Marriot
Awesome :-)
Thank you :)
And now I need to start a CSA collection......
Yes! 👏 😆
Manually applied overprint on a stuck piece of paper. Maybe, it is the first American overprint - prices went up during the war?
I am in Mrs.Crums class 5th grade I believe you guys are brother and sisters? We watched one of you videos today!
Awesome! I am Mrs Crum’s brother, I heard that you watched the Apollo Soyuz and Statue of Liberty episodes, I hope you liked it. 😊
As far as the Chittenden stamp goes or something similar. Is it farfetched to think that they just produced two different or multiple stamp markers that were the same design but not completely identical in comparison? What if something happened to the original design (woodblock or whatever it was) such as breaking or getting lost? If that was the case what would have been the odds of them just creating a new one to the best of their ability which made it close to identical as the original but slightly off scale? If a situation like that occurred in the past is it possible that could have been the case?
I'm guessing the only way to determine such a thing would be to unearth additional examples to help proove that theory. Given that situation I would think it's a bit irrational to assume such a piece would be automatically considered forgery.
I deal in antiques and dedicate much time in research to items that are unique or unknown. (Sometimes months or even years to gather all the appropriate information to even consider a possible value) At times I may discover some lost pieces of history. When such magic happens it really helps to fill in some missing gaps which in turn provides additional information that was never previously known to collectors, dealers or appraisers. When new information on a subject is revealed it sometimes completely alters the criteria or resources used that experts would normally go by to determine rarity or value.
Certain pieces I came across ended up being historically significant, unique, or rare enough that whatever the item was couldn't really be appropriately appraised and would be best suited for a museum. It's either that or in some cases where experts will question the authenticity and label it as a fake. Your expanded thoughts on this idea would be much appreciated. Thanks
Plz make a Indian stamp video. Nice video 👌
🙏 thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I hope to make an Indian Stamp video in the near future.
How u doinng?. stunning video! see ya!.😯
Doing good 😊 thank you so much for watching.
Honest auction house.
👍👍
Love the old letters good to know if they are real 👍. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺😎
😊👍
is it not possible to do radioactive carbon-dating? I just thought about the Birmingham Quran manuscripts which were carbon dated to virtually 1400 years ago. Unless the time scale for stamps is much shorter and carries more of a margin for error?
That’s a good question, I don’t really know and haven’t heard of carbon dating on modern postal history, I’ll have to do some reading up on it 🤔
@@GuyIncognito575 aah.. I clearly need to read up on it a bit more.. Surprised they did it for the Birmingham manuscripts then..
@@GuyIncognito575 yeah, I did think that after a while.. Postal covers and issues are not the same because the idea is to preserve them. Hey I just did a bit of background reading and found out that carbon dating will be redundant over the next few millenia - fossil fuel burning and nuclear testing will cause a spike so unless they have a way to factor that in, it will be useless anyway..
So did they use a mass spectrometer? I need to clearly watch this episode again.. I seem to be watching episodes 3x over and everytime I come across something I missed the previous time.. 🥴🤦🏻♂️🤣🤣🤣
@@GuyIncognito575 yup i cheated and just flicked to Krane (my year 2 reader I still have.. Lol).. Makes sense when you think about the industrial revolution and weapons testing.. They're blips on nature's radar.. Alas the world is getting less simpler.. I DO miss the days you could just pop a letter in a postbox with a stamp on it.. I'm going to cheer myself up and send someone a postcrossing postcard, lol..
places help me
Help you
Sorry
I am from India mate did I won the giveaway
Thanks for watching in India. 😊. I dont know, the winner in India is from "Bengaluru, Karnataka", there were almost 45 entries from India, a lot of great participation. 👍
Thanks for informing me🥲
reply me
Overall it was interesting. By the way: Erivan Haub disappeared in Switzerland going skiing. But there are still rumors that he is still alive. He had Russian connections and also his private life seems to be a bit weird. This is only what I heard about it, I really don´t know.
Regarding the letters with fake/genuine. I had the impression that it is always the main topic if something may be a lo t of worth getting as much money as possible. If something is fake, like the three letters with the fake cancellations it is worth nothing or only a small amount. But not with everything. Take the last two stamps from Deutsches Reich. In the catalogue we still have: Issued April 20th, 1945. Some tester from BPP (German stamp testing association) proved letters as genuine from Berlin, but they are all fake. Auction hauses still sell them with the certifications with a fary tale text may be genuine. The people who wrote the certifications got plenty of money, the auction houses still earn plenty of money and this is still agreat business - hrmpf. And it is not that difficult if you review each letter that they can´t be genuine. In the catalogue you have no notation for cancelled in the meantime anymore, but there are still collectors outside buying these letter for several 100s of Euros. And sometimes there are still people dicussing that there might be genuine letters...
Let´s take the two letters with the blue "stamps" or the one with the 10 cent peace on the letter. I doubt that anyone will get the conclusion if this is fake or genuine. If it is right that every postmaster was allowed to do whatever he wanted to do, you have a yes as a possibility or people knew that and know that there are collectors outside searching such things and creating them und you have a no. If genuine $$$$$$, if fake nothing to maximum $. For me personal this is burlesque. Some people say: Oh, it is genuine and with this it is easy to find someone who pays 250.000 $ for it. But why? I don´t think any single person can have all postmaster stamps/envelopes and besides them there are 100s and 1000s of stamps, where are with 1-10 existing peaces also rare. I found for example a stamp where only 1 exists (or let´s say netter is known) as a speciality of a common stamp and this stamp is now listed in Michel catalogue with no price. If I give it to an auction I may get 1000 or if I am lucky 5000 EUROs. This stamp is proved, I have a certification for it. But this is the standard price for items which are not that known, but very seldom like rare postmaster stamps. And this is absolute OK. But pricings with 1.000.000 or so, I don´t know.
It is all business and you can find rich people who have so much money they do not know what to do with it. The target is may be getting famous to own a blue Mauritsius, a postmaster stamp/envelope where only one or 5 peaces are existing. On the other side an auction house gets 20% of the buying price earned within one day work overall with everything is done.
I´m not so sure if this sort of business is something I´m searching for in my hobby. OK, I own some seldom stamps and envelopes. But I do not care about money (I know many collectors do). My first goal is to have fun with my hobby. I wish I would love modern stamps more, because most of them are nothing worth or only tiny sums. But I like old stamps/envelopes. With this it costs a bit more, but I have a maximum sum what something can cost and I find with this so many beautiful items that I can buy in nearly every auction something what is interesting to me. I do not need a 10000 $ item or even higher to have fun. I find this sort of philately infantil. Like the oligarchs with their yachts they do not own anymore because of special operations.
Hi Oliver,
It was Erivan’s son, Karl-Erivan who went missing off of the Klein Matterhorn. A story with lots of mystery.
I actually enjoy learning about the rare, and often times expensive stamps. I cannot afford them, but the stories and learning opportunities from them are just fascinating. The saying “philately starts where the catalog ends” is quite true in many ways. The investigative research, the theories, and even the debates can provide wonderful looks into our history.
Maybe someone out there has another “blue stamp” or 10c Horn Lake stamp that can shed some more light on all of this? Who knows? The mystery and the hunt to solve and discover more is exciting to me and other philatelists (even if we’ll never own it). 😊
@@ExploringStamps This is OK, if you like it. I also went one time to Berlin into the postmuseum to see Mauritsius stamps and the first Hawaian stamps. I also want to go to London like you did to see in the library some stamps I will never own. This is all interesting and it is nice that these stamps are existing.
What I do not like is the business around it. May be it is my experience with some auction houses and stamp dealers and how they do business. Soemtimes it was terrible. And if you look this video, it is all about money. Can they be genuine, ist there a chance and can we get $$$$$$? I hope, you understand, that I´m not a fan of it. The best in the video was, that we see some letters most of us never see. This is not critisiscm for your video or to you, I would not even critisize Charles. I simple do not like this part in our hobby, that´s all. This is only my personal opinion and you can see it total different. No problems with it. 😊
Regarding Erivan Haub and familiy I´m not too deep into it. You are right with the son. It is the same with Tengelmann: Both disappeared. By the way: There were some Erivan Haub auctions in Germany and if you wanted to own a peace, some of them were not too expensive. With 100 - 200 EURO it was possible to get something. I think, in USA it was the same.