I really like how you systematically broke down the different audience povs. It showed a lot of thought and understanding of what you are talking about and isn't something many people always get into in reviews. Great job!
Sweet! Thanks! I don't think I articulated the POVs in the most efficient way, but hopefully I'll get better at speaking solo to a camera. I get all nervous and ramble. Oddly, I don't mess up or get nervous when talking to a face. i am seriously considering taping a printout of someone's face to the camera tripod. lol Hopefully no one ever sees my setup. I'll look like a nutcase.
The books start out as a generic fantasy story that makes a hard left into Vietnam, while the show starts out as the mystery of "who is the Dragon" to then devolve into a generic fantasy. While the books completely deconstructs the Chosen One trope (people think the Dragon is the anti-Christ, including our main cast), the show embraces it.
Haha! I love this metaphor. And even though I'm only 20 chapters into book 1, I already see that what you are saying is true of the book. Ugh! I sure hope the show doesn't get too boring. I've already committed myself to this comparison.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Personally, I think that's one of the things that the show failed in massively. The book starts with familiar things, everyone knows the conservative, closed minded townsfolk and we learn the world alongside them, but, in my opinion, since the cast in the show is already so progressive, it's harder to show the culture clash when they travel abroad.
This is one of the biggest mistakes I see in the show. We are presented with the glorious idea of a chosen one, while the book makes it clear immediately, being the chosen one is a curse as much as a blessing if not more. He will save the world AND break it AND die doing it. No one would want to be the dragon, the only exception being it seems like a better fate than just going mad as a male channeler and slaughtering people. But in general it’s not a good thing.
The Lord of the Rings trailers started on establishing shots of Hobbiton, Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, establishing shots of other locations like Rivendale, things go dark and then Gandalf asking, "Is it secret? Is it safe?" You're then bombarded with frightening monsters and action scenes. Frodo saying, "I wish it had never come to me," and Gandalf's kind reply, "So does everyone who lives through hard times." Compare that to The Wheel of Time trailer, and all we have is a complete mess that's being described.
Its especially weird (but a conscious choice) to bang on about the Aes Sedai when they are barely in the first book. Rafe wanted them front and center, he's sees the draw of them being "they're women in power". This is also why they go for 5 and not 3, they hide the boys and put them in the background. Funny thing is this completely ignores the best thing about Aes Sedai. It had nothing to do with power, they couldn't use their power on innocents anyway. Their strength was in manipulation and the perception of themselves they crafted. The "mystery of the characters" and not being attached to any of them is a good pick up. The series maintains that almost the entire way through 🤣 There were no easter eggs in the trailer. Well MAYBE Moiraine fighting alongside Lan, because that actually expanded upon the books and showed you a scene that was only talked about before. Rather than replacing what happened in them.
WTF! The boys get shoved to the side?! Uh... I thought Rand was our MC? What the Hell are people thinking?! My guess, from the book so far (Chapter 15) is that Rand is the Dragon. That's what we--the readers--expect. Books typically follow the POV of "the chosen one" because it will be the most affected character with the most interesting choices to make. If Rand is the chosen one and pushed to the side, we can expect a boring story. What the He'll?! Moiraine and Lan having a fight scene was the thing that interested me the most. If the chosen one is shoved to the side, I hope we at least get more Moiraine/Lan screen time.
@@readingwithrebeccanicole Yes Moiraine is definitely the main character of the series. You only have to look at the posters for season 2 to see that continued too.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS engaging in good faith here. moirane is not the main character. she is the only grown up apart from lan or nynaeve and they deliberately reduced her competence from the book (which i hate) to give her an arc like s1 is the fall and s2 and 3 will be a bit of redemption IMO Also that guy makes many anti woke videos with selective truths and IGNORING the fact that more than 50% POV chapters are from women in the books so take it with a big grain of salt or maybe you are also 'anti woke' idk just telling you Book 1 is not representative of the whole series. there are 5 Paragraphs of rand in book 3 he is main character but all 6 of them are really the main characters( 6th one is elayne)
@@JustAFrame Oh, I don't know how I feel about turning Moiraine incompetent. I'm not far enough in the series to know what her role is as a storytelling tool. Depending on what that is, it could alter the final outcome. No matter what, it's never a good idea to dumb down or reduce an already beloved character. Hopefully I can give a fair review of this adaptation. I judge storytelling. As a developmental editor, it's my job to help writers figure out the best story for their intended audience. On this channel, I only look at political and social issues as storytelling elements. But I will definitely mention where major deviations from source material are made, or where I'm seeing overused tropes, or where it seems that changes have been made for political/social reasons at the cost of being an adaptation that stays true to characters and plot and world.
Rafe Judkins said in an interview that he didn't care about the book fans, he was pushing his narrative to bring in more people with a view similar to his, and that if he pissed off the book fans, then who cares, because he didnt make it for them.
The problem is, Amazon didn't give us a trailer...ever. Only teasers. A trailer really needs to establish characters, storyline and conflict and epic visuals to draw you in. None of Amazon's promotional material for Wheel of Time does this, they only gave us very choppy visuals.
As a long-time fan, the trailer was mildly disappointing at the time. It looked too bright, and cheap, and it was obvious that changes had been made. With expectations lowered, the first couple of episodes were not bad. It went rapidly downhill from there, to the point where I'm not interested in season 2. And with Rings of Power being similarly terrible, I quit prime video too. It seems the angle they were going for was "Wheel of Time, but as a cheaply made teen drama." I can only assume they want it to appeal to a wider audience, but they just ended up alienating the book fans. And for it to succeed, they really needed good word of mouth from the fans to generate a buzz, which actually happened with Shadow and Bone. Good review, I look forward to your thoughts on the books and the show. The books are great!
Yeah, Shadow and Bone was unique, by my experience. But it did start to lose track of what it was supposed to be doing. I don't know how long it's going to take for these studios to realize that making big changes to stories and characters that are already super popular in another medium is a bad idea. I agree that some bits looked cheap. I think a lot of it is the costume design. I need to see more of the series, but Episode 1 had big red flags in the costume department.
I would hope that you could see this series as a different turning of the Wheel. Also, part of the problem they had with pacing is incredibly common for the first season. They had the added problems of losing a lead actor half way through the first season and the pandemic was a real problem for the CGI and the amount of extras working on set. If it was really that disappointing to you I can understand that. This was never going to be as intricate as the books, they were always going to have to change things quite a bit
@@karenholmes6565 Hi, although it was clear from the trailer that the look of show wasn't very good, but once the show started the bigger problem was with the writing. It veered far away from the books, left out the things that made Eye of the World interesting, and put in a lot of stuff that was plain wrong, poorly done and boring. Love triangle? Fridged wife? Mat's home life? Women's circle initiation? Whitecloaks hunting Aes Sedai? Practically in sight of the Tower? Lan? They didn't explain the One Power very well, and some of the little explanation they did give was just wrong, and changes the story, the characters and the world. I don't know what story this is, but it's not the Wheel of Time.
@@andrewvalentine797 Hey, I get it. Some people cannot switch mediums for beloved books. I never expected a television series to accomplish the impossible, to capture all of the delight Jordan's treasured story telling. It is a new story. It is another turning of the Wheel. It has to be its own thing because there is no way they could follow the books.
Superfan (read the first book when it came out) perspective: No, the teaser and trailer were not full of Easter eggs or shots that made me go, "Ooh!" Instead, the teaser made me go, "What the actual fuck is this? Who is that supposed to be? Why is this teaser focusing on the enormous, when the story is supposed to start small and grow like The Hobbit? Why are all these people dark-skinned? That's supposed to be a distinctive feature of particular cultures that we don't meet until the second book! Five people? Blood and bloody ashes, this makes as much sense as a light-blinded Aielman drunk on too many cups of mother's milk dancing in the streets of Tar Valon! And is that seriously supposed to be weaving the One Power? Gah! I'm just going to run off and join the Tinkers at this rate." Seriously. I saw the teaser and was sure the Forsaken were involved in this thing's production.
Are you planning on reading all of the books and reacting to the 8 or so seasons they are planning on making? I think you will enjoy the books for sure, less certain on the show 😅.
If I enjoy the first three books, I will absolutely continue with it. I've heard there are a handful of weaker books in the series, so I have been warned, and I'm not above whizzing through a weaker book to get to the good ones, and I hear the series ending is very satisfying.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The weaker books are really only in comparison to the rest, they're still quite good. The "slog", as it's sometimes called, is really only parts of books 9 and 10.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I'm fairly confident you'll keep on through the rest of the series if you're using the first three books as a gauge! Hell, if you use the first 6 lol (book 5 is my favourite). It also depends on what you end up enjoying about the books as well as how detail oriented a reader you are. Most people consider books 9 and 10, sometimes also the majority of book 8, to be the weaker books, but I know that I only ever struggled to enjoy book 10 and that was on my first read of it; without spoilers, book 10 deals a lot with the repercussions/reactions to something from book 9 (of course in addition to its own plot). However, I am someone who reads series I enjoy repeatedly to pick up on details I may have missed my first read through, to try and pick up on more foreshadowing, etc, and I was reading these books as they were released post-book 9 so I reread the series a lot waiting on the following release.
@patrickhill8494 I'm sure I read them all. And I think you are right. Which books I love or despise will depend on what attracts me most about the series.
I fall into category 2. Keep meaning to read the books and have not had the time. So, I gave the show a try. Watched it all. I will probably watch season 2, but I will need a refresher (thanks for providing one) before I see it.
watching the trailer as a person who'd read the first 5 books over 1/2 a dozen times, the trailers lost me cos i just couldn't piece what was happening and connect them to book moments, 1/2 the characters didn't seem to look like whom they were based off of so didn't even know whom they were sposed to be until i'd googled it
Yeah I agree that the trailers (season one and two) go for a throw spaghetti on the wall method that I don't like. That being said I had no clue as a book reader that they were making a show until about two weeks before the release. An I was absolutely ecstatic to see the trailer. I watched the first three episodes and immediately went online to see everyone else's reactions. Eventually it led me to a really great online group of people. So I'll always be grateful to the show for that.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I'm glad you are too! Btw the first season also covers part of the prequel novella New Spring but most people don't read it until after book 10
The WoT is my all time favourite fantasy series. If you read it enough times you find that there are hidden stories in the background that are never spelled out. You are left to put them together your self, or not. The show is an anomination.
I've not read the books but after watching series one in full (only because I happened to have Amazon Prime for a month for another unrelated reason) I decided to check out this show, and to be quite honest without this channel I would have probably given up on it after episode 2. Those doing the screenwriting for the show just don't seem to know how to flesh out characters, set the scene, progress story arcs, or even have a story line that is consistent and characters that act with at least a modicum of common sense (or even as teenagers would in this sort of situation). I didn't like any of the characters, and I'm not talking about the 5. The books must be a lot better for Amazon to have spent so much on this show. The problem is you probably need a person overseeing this that has as much respect for the source material as Peter Jackson did for Lord of the Rings and this is obviously not the case here, they were just told to try and create a Game of Thrones crossed with Lord of the Rings because that's what it seems to come across as without any attention to detail.
@@mattpotter8725 the first book the eye of the world has some elements from Lord of the rings then the series start to being her on thing and George R.R. Martin tock some inspiration from The Wheel of Time to make Game of Thrones so that’s maybe why you feel it that way
Honestly, I don't know a single person (in person) who read the books and was intrigued by the trailer or teaser. 😬 It was a great opportunity for the studio to draw in new fans.... yeesh!
As a "superfan" the teaser and trailer was as you said a "cluster ...$%^*" no there will never be more than 3 dragon candidates. the Aes sedai rings were subtle rings that if you didnt know what they were you would pay it no attention. They Never wore clothes of the same colour as their Ajah .. many other mess ups(i cant say as they would be spoilers for you !!) but I was still excided and making excuses for the show as I liked the books so much. !
I'm really enjoying the book, so far, and hope that the show is enjoyable too, even if for its own sake, and not necessarily as a good translation of the source material.
I like how you breakdown your thoughts from the varied perspectives. I love the books and hate the show so much I have stopped watching what they have done as this adaptation. I look forward to hearing your honest opinion on how both the books and this adaptation was done.
The first season had some troubles mostly due to he pandemic and because one of their leading actors didn't come back after the lockdown. They had to rewrite his character arc, which is really a shame. That had an avalanche impact on the plotting. The final episode was ruined because they could not have lots of extras on the set. I will be generous and hope that they get it together in season 2 now that they do not have either of these issues. I don't see this series as being the same as the book. In order to tell the story properly it would need to be an animated series. I hope they do that before I kick the bucket. Think of it this way, there are 14 books, the events of the books only cover 3 yrs. In order to really tell the story would require at least 10 yrs. The actors would age out of the roles.
Great analysis. Btw, I presume the aircon was off to avoid noise pollution while recording - there are ways to completely eliminate that via software, eg. OBS Studio comes with some filters built-in which you can enable. I don't know what you're using to record, but there should be something available in whatever you're using.
Say it isn't so! 😢 I'm really enjoying the book, so far. What is wrong with people?! I can only assume that the folks in charge of these adaptations have their jobs because of either nepotism, bribery, or someone's sleeping with someone. These sort of choices are so obviously bad anyone with a brain could have told them it is a bad idea to ignore and piss off the pre-existing fanbase.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Its worse then that. They hired show runners who only care about "Modern Audiences" and "The Message". I'm honestly surprised they didn't call The Dark One, "The Orange One"
I’m not sure you can even call what they did wheel of time at all it genuinely feels like the show runners are stealing character names and the world map and then mucking about with no regard for the story that the original author wanted to tell.
I was hoping they wouldn’t break the world/lore… Like Paramount did with Halo. Sadly I can’t look away from a black hole sucking in a world I love and rebirthing an abomination. I’m easily entertained in the moment, but was pulled out of the world the second Rand and Egwene kissed, let alone more. Thank you for your critical voice and reconstruction of dialog (videos through ep. 3). You are much better at catching things with your eye and articulating the critique than most of the critics I’ve seen.(it could just be that you have solutions and not just bashing).
Yeah... I think folks need to consider what really draws in a crowd. Some of the cinematography was nice ... but that's not good enough to make people want to know what happens.
There's actually an Easter egg in the teaser for something that doesn't happen until like book 8 or 9. It was cool to notice it as a fan. But I don't think it had a place in the teaser or the trailer. Tbh there are things in the trailer and teaser that fans will notice. Symbolism and such that will mean nothing to anyone that has read the books. I never really thought about it with that lens though so I appreciate you pointing it out to us. So thanks for the perspective.
For me - having read most of the books I did like these points: Rosamond Pike YAY! The way they depicted the use of The One Power. But then I got a bit confused. Didn't Robert Jordan - with at least some care describe all characters? Yeah! After that it went down hill. But still I did watch the first season. The first couple of episodes where fine to a degree, but things didn't seem right from what I remembered reading. Before the season ended I couldn't stomach anymore; but I stuck it out. I lived in books and now I live in movies. Being on the elderly side now I prefer the movies at the moment. It just doesn't sit well with me when they change things from the books. We all know Thee Epic trilogy! I first read LotR in the late 70's or early 80's? It was thee only thing I read, along with that I had the complete 'Tolkien' set at the time; LotR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Sir Guain(?) and maybe 2 more. Friends would recommend books, series, etc... None of them captured me like LotR AND The Silmarillion! Being fairly young, I didn't have to go to the library, nor book stores to read something I dearly loved. I read all of the appendices and then started with The Hobbit and then LotR, then the Silmarillion! I read all of Middle Earth at least 20 times! When Peter Jackson came out with LotR - the books came to LIFE! The little change with Arwen was EPIC! "If you want him, come and claim him!" I really, REALLY wanted to see Glorfindel riding upon his horse - with BELL's ringing! I wanted to see and hear Legolas' bow SING! I didn't get those two things, but the rest of the films, environment, the Nazgul, the music, the Ents! OMG! Those Orc's, the Urik-hai!!! GANDALF!!! Eowyn!!! Almost everything was as I remembered but more beautiful, dreadful, heart stopping, fun and tragic than I had ever imagined. The Books Came To Life!!! I was hoping for the same here. But nope... I struggled with the way they changed the characters, and how they were as opposed to the books; then I just couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't get attached to the characters, albeit liking Rosamond Pike I was attached with Moiraine at first, but I didn't read her being with that lady... Did I? I don't think so and in 'them' doing such just tore away at that link. The choices the characters made also break any possible connection I may have had. Ring of Power bite the big one EXCEPT - some of the 'scene shots'/'stills'; Moria, the Dwarves!
Well, Rosamud Pike is the producer. This is HER show. She’ll do as she pleases. Girl power is all they care about. And hey, fine. Do that. But for crying out loud, quit hijacking good fantasy only to wreck it for the sake it diversity, equity and inclusion. Create something of your own. Someone original. Make a unique show with all the DEI you want. Oh but wait. That would mean they don’t have a baked in fan base and the they are too lazy to even try and build their own fan base, let alone their own story.
Thank you so much for exposing the travesty, that is the Wheel of Time tv series, if one has read the books. After waiting so long for this epoch book series it go to the screen, to have to watch this poorly written fan fiction is so so so sad to me. Keep reading, you won’t regret the journey. Especially the last 4 books. 😀
I have a forth type of viewer for you, I read the first four books but wouldn't call myself a fan for mainly the reason of being an older reader who started reading fantasy and science fiction in the 70s. Because I'm a artist and graphic designer I found the fantasy explosion that happened around that time a lot of the stories were very similar and grew tired of the same tropes that came up repeatedly. So while I acknowledged those things I started the series hoping for a pleasant surprise as I found the first 5-6 seasons of GoT but with what I saw of this series I stopped watching after the 4th episode. Enjoying your analyses of media however and will continue to watch for your opinions.
Super fan here. Honestly, I never thought to watch the trailer from those three perspectives but I re-watching it all I get is the continuous flash of generic fantasy over and over. I don’t really see this trailer attracting non-fantasy fans, and being a super fan, I can say, it turned me away with its inaccuracies more than attracted me. This trailer and series in general is best suited for fans of generic fantasy.
The more I watch, the more I realize that this and many other big budget shows have the writing quality of scifi channel shows from the 90s and early 2000s..... in fact, some of those had better writing. 😬
Forgive me if I'm repeating anything from the Comments. My thoughts on the trailer's attempt to draw in non-fantasy/scifi viewers was "look! It's Rosamund Pike! We paid the big bucks, ohhhh yeahhh", hence the focus on Aes Sedai. For drawing in fantasy/scifi fans who haven't read the books, I think it was supposed to be "look! We squished Lord of the Rings with Games of Thrones! You love those things, c'mon". As for book fans, errr... This is harder as that's my group (and I didn't watch the trailer)... Maybe just "hey! we mentioned a bunch of things from the books! This is all you're gonna get, let's be honest". It's all awkward. Seeing the trailer and teaser now, I think I'd have been at 25% excitement levels for things recognized. The rest would be confusion and disappointment, but I'm really hard to please with adaptations.
Every once in a while you hear a story of someone getting away with something totally outrageous, and you find yourself just saying "damn! Good for him!"
I’m excited and sad for you to watch the show and do a book comparison. I wont spoil anything for you though. Compare this trailer to the original LOTR teaser trailer. Day and night difference.
I am dreadding this already. 😭 I just watched a trailer for a Sundance scifi movie that is outside of my usual interest, and I'm totally stoked about seeing it when it comes out. You see, these smaller studios have more at stake. They know they *need* to draw an audience when they cut a trailer. Amazon Prime are a bunch of bozos with too much money.
The reason that the trailer isn't about anything, is because the TV show isn't about anything 😬 They excised most of the interesting, defining stuff that's in the books 😭 It's a travesty of an adaptation. You will see just by reading the first book 😐
This is what folks who love the books have been saying in my comments. 😭 I really hope I can just like it for its own sake... pretending it's not an adaptation... because, so far, I'm enjoying the book very much. I'd hate to see it poorly represented.
I can tell you this... so far, the book is very enjoyable. I'm at around Chapter 20, at the moment. And I thought the first 10 chapters were better than the first episode (which covered the first 10 chapters). Maybe see if someone has a free audiobook of the first 10 chapters and give it a try on some long road trip or when you are tidying your house or doing the dishes or while you're in the shower. I try out lots of new fiction this way, and I don't come out of it feeling like I wasted my time. I highly recommend it!
I tried the series after reading the book (okay, reading it a couple of times) and couldn't even watch past the beginning. They completely ruin the series.
As a life long reader of SciFi Fantasy I have learned to expect any media representation to be separate and distinct from the books. I read the book before the series. The series is inspired by the books but is not a 100% true representation of the books. The primary purpose of movies and tv series are to make money. To do that it has to appeal to a broader base of potential viewers. I don’t necessarily disagree with your critique of the trailer and teaser. Could they have been better? Yes. The point I want to make is if fans of the books expect the movie/series to be 100% true to the book(s), they will always be disappointed. I prefer to have more realistic expectations and enjoy each on their stand alone merits.
I think there's a few super duper fans who will be upset if even the slightest changes are made. But there are definitely ways to adapt for film that don't make unnecessary drastic changes, and from what i am hearing from book fans in the comments is that there are some pretty big changes made to the world, the characters, and the story 😬 When producers get backlash for changes of that scale, I have to wonder what was going through their heads. As far as trailers and teasers go, I really have to shake me head at this one, though. I made my family sit and watch it (7 adults who all have widely varying entertainment interests), just to make sure I wasn't completely off my rocker.... they all felt it failed to grab them.
@unrulysimian3897 I think the best way to look at adaptations these days is to consider them to be either "inspired by" or fan fiction. Either way, it doesn't have to take away from your ability to enjoy the show. There were some parts about it I really liked.
I like to look at the series and the books as being different turnings of the Wheel, or maybe what book readers know as a reality from a flicker flicker universe, or perhaps a reality borne from a ter'angreal. Book fans will understand this comment...lol
At the time, i remember thinking how generic fantasy it all looked. So, i assume it was aimed at die hard scifi fantasy people to let them know, yep, heres one more for the pile.
Amazon seems very young as an "entertainment producer" (no idea how i should name this ). One moment they're overly grandiose, the next super conservative. You'll see this imbalance effecting major decisions. I hope they will grow into it, learn to trust the story and its characters as well as their own ability to create great content, starting with next season. And hey, that process would be quite true to the books, as the first book isn't all that original and well crafted either. It all gets better and better.
We can all hope and pray that this is the situation. I have a feeling, however, that they still have enough money to not care too much about whether or not it's going to be a success or failure.
I don't know how one won't think that the aei sedai are interesting from the trailer, given how different it is from the usual as they are very powerful but can't use magic most of the time, they run the world but are called the servants and the vow of not lying, just screams intersting, to both non fantasy fan and fantasy fan, as the chosen one dark Lord definitely won't interest the later it might the former but this definitely would so idk why you think people would find it uninteresting, trailer as a whole wasn't all that but the aei sedai oaths really would pull people in imo especially given how generic the premise of wot is
I definitely possible that the concept of the Aes-Sedai didn't intrigue me because I've seen this done many times before, which might be a result of reading so much fantasy that was possibly inspired by these books. 🤷♀️ I'm not sure that the chosen one thing would have been the best to showcase, either, except perhaps the idea of a chosen one being anyone of 5 different people. That would have been the best thing to showcase, I think. As for the Aes-Sedai, probably the binary nature of the One Power would be the most intriguing to a non-fantasy lover. I don't know if that's been portrayed much in film.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS the Aes Sedai come across a lot like the Dune's Bene Gesserit. While other things you've read may have come after The Wheel of Time, Dune was out decades before it.
Perhaps I've seen the trailer or the teaser, doesn't matter. Whatever I've seen solidified my decision to not ever watch the show. Nynaeve is not supposed to push Egwene in a river, Nynaeve freed herself from her force blockage while trapped in a sinking boat. The colours surrounding Egvene look like poisonous chemicals and not forthtelling sings of her future. Everything looks cheap and fake. The "Sword of truth" kind of awful adaptation and that show had better costume designs. PS I've read the books and the teaser blew my mind - I expected the show to be unwatchable and it turned out to be worse.
My mother says that she binged the whole thing right after I posted my review of episode 1. She enjoys it a lot. That gives me hope that, even if it deviates from the source material, it might be good as its own thing. I won't know until I get through it all.
Season 1 of the tv show is incorporating elements of the entire series, not just book 1. There are significant differences between book 1 and the book series as a whole. One thing the tv show is trying to do is take advantage of the fact that it knows where the story is going. The trailers highlight WOT's prominent role for numerous & varied female characters who have agency rather than being there for sexual exploitation or simply advancing the stories of male characters, the active nature and use of magic in this world, and the respectful incorporation of diverse casting & real-world cultural elements (philosophy, clothing/hair, architecture, etc.). This is what sets the tv show apart from other prominent fantasy adaptations like LOTR or GOT. The fantasy tropes of book 1 are exactly what does NOT set WOT apart from other fantasy books series - book 1 of WOT largely echoes LOTR. (Robert Jordan did this intentionally as both a storytelling device and because it made good business sense at the time.) It's only in the later books where the author fully establishes the unique contributions of the WOT book series. The constrained originality of book 1 relative to the much greater originality of the overall series is one reason why the tv show in s1 incorporated elements of the entire book series, rather than attempting a straight adaptation of only book 1. You may be interested to read my comments on your other recent WOT video. As a long-time super fan of the WOT book series, I appreciate your interest in the books and associated media. I just think some of the additional background I provide on the book series and tv adaptation would be beneficial to your analysis.
I'm all game for a totally new kind of epic fantasy (really looking forward to what is adapted for Brandon Sanderson and Joe Abercrombie). If there are going to be significant deviations, though, i fell like it would be smart of the authors to insist that the shows/movies are advertised as "inspired by such and such book". I can enjoy that sort of thing if it is executed properly. For instance, I adore the Howl's Moving Castle trilogy (books 1 and 2, mostly). When Miyazaki adapted it, he was pretty clear that it was inspired by these books, not a direct adaptation. I love the movie and the books. Both do different things. Just be honest, and never tell the pre-existing audience that you are improving it when you are making really big changes that kind of undo key elements of what was loved in the original. (
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONSThe Showrunner has said many times that this is an adaption based on the entire series. So they haven’t said that this is an improvement or anything. Although as someone who was read the entire series over 10x, some elements are improved in the show IMHO.There are things that RJ was constrained by writing in the 90s that just don’t exist to the same extent now. Also certain changes make it easy to see how they can improve character arcs, making them a bit more understandable and less frustrating
@@RiseeRee I am all for the rearrangement of revelations for better effect but there are some changes that have been made which appear to negate setups in the book and dramatically change characters. I'll wait to see where it goes, for sure. I'm not incapable of appreciating a story for its own sake, but I'm also going to compare to the books.
I kinda disagree with this. While book 1 is more of a traditional adventure fantasy, it's arguably the most important book in the series as it set the foundation for the rest of the series and did the most work building the world and characters. Book one also seems to have a better idea of how the rest of the series would play out with the heaps of foreshadowing that wouldn't get payoffs until the very end of the series. I think a more faithful but abridged version of the first book would have done a better job then S1 overall.
@@galetempus1979 Fair points! Definitely RJ had a ton of great foreshadowing in tEotW, and I miss plenty of b1 elements. I'll be vague to avoid spoiling any first-time readers, but I thought the warder plot in e5 was excessive and felt like that time could have been much better spent on b1-content like wolves, boys & Lan, etc. I also feel like a few minutes more in each episodes could have allowed more time for dreams, prophecies, quiet character moments, etc. directly from b1. Outside of Rand's changed confrontation, e8 was a mess (though COVID restricted them from their original plan and what they could do instead). But I think focusing on channelers in e4 and e6, relative to say more time w/ boys on road or adventures in the capital city, makes a lot of sense in terms of their relative importance over entirety of WoT, what sets WoT apart from other fantasy franchises that have been adapted on screen, the real-world costs & other production challenges associated with building sets and hiring actors with varying star power for roles that vary drastically in their appearance across the story, etc. The studio-imposed 8 episodes, approximately 60 minutes each season order creates tradeoffs. The studios get to have a say - the rights were sold to them, they are spending the tens of millions of dollars to make it happen, they make tv for a living, and they have no personal attachment to WoT outside of the fact it's good story that a bunch of book readers love (but successful tv shows have way way more fans than even a major book series like WoT). Rafe's original season breakdown was 10 eps. I think that when Rafe and the other writers went to write the 8 episodes, they messed up in cutting too much of the b1 content that would have otherwise stayed in while retaining the later book content they were already planning to move forward. But that's only my theory, and is obviously been developed in part to help me maintain my optimism about the people involved and that the show will get better over time. (If this live-action production is unsuccessful, history suggest we won't get a second attempt for decades, if ever. There are too many other potential IPs out there that risk-averse studios will gravitate toward instead.) In summary, some of the changes make sense to me, particularly in light of the constraints of real-world production constraints. I choose to remain optimistic and focus on the positive, even I readily agree that the show has flaws and I think it would have been better if it had made certain decisions differently.
Sadly the WoT trailer was a cluster. I liked the books but have not read them in decades. Tried watching the show but its so...meh. Maybe I will try again, but probably not, as life is short.
I do think that whoever makes movie and show trailers needs to understand that they have to try to appeal to the pre-existing fans AND try to draw in new people.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Agreed. IMHO many modern trailers take the twitter approach, spoil the whole movie for those with a 3 second attention span.
Whoa buddy that entire tv series was junk. It is a story using tiny pieces of the books, but inelloquently and trashy. I was utterly disappointed with the mc being moraine and the ais sedai instead of rand perrin and mat...at least in the beginning.
The trailers need to show what makes each fantasy series unique to their particular story, otherwise all this fantasy stuff just comes across as 'LOTR-lite' or even worse - The Rings of Power-lite!!!😜🤣🤣🤣
Super Fan perspective (I have read the entire series twice, and listened to the audio books once) The trailer was for book fans more than to entice new viewers. The book fans were crucial to marketing the show. They were trying to excite book fans by lacing certain Easter eggs. For example, Egwene rising up from the pool of water was tremendously exciting for reasons I cannot say here because they are spoilers. As far as the "5", it was not that big of a deal, because the characters are known as the "Emond's Field Five". All of them are important to the overall story, so expanding their role in the first season was not a deal breaker. I think that whether you have a good opinion about the trailer/teaser it did its job. WoT was the highest rated show on Amazon for that entire year. As far as the costumes, there are people that work in costuming that were so impressed with the costumes they recreated them.
The show has only a few similarities to the books of the series. The dragon can only be a man in the books. That's why they mainly hunt for male users of magic. The fact that Moiraine loses her magic is not mentioned in the book, but Siuan Sanche and her assistant are appeased or lost their magic as punishment during the rebellion in the white tower. Another book series that is destroyed by the Amazon streaming service, just like Netflix did with the Witcher. Such a shame that people who don't have the creativity to write original work themselves have the opportunity and the power to destroy the beautiful work of others.
I really like how you systematically broke down the different audience povs. It showed a lot of thought and understanding of what you are talking about and isn't something many people always get into in reviews. Great job!
Sweet! Thanks! I don't think I articulated the POVs in the most efficient way, but hopefully I'll get better at speaking solo to a camera. I get all nervous and ramble. Oddly, I don't mess up or get nervous when talking to a face. i am seriously considering taping a printout of someone's face to the camera tripod. lol
Hopefully no one ever sees my setup. I'll look like a nutcase.
The books start out as a generic fantasy story that makes a hard left into Vietnam, while the show starts out as the mystery of "who is the Dragon" to then devolve into a generic fantasy. While the books completely deconstructs the Chosen One trope (people think the Dragon is the anti-Christ, including our main cast), the show embraces it.
Haha! I love this metaphor. And even though I'm only 20 chapters into book 1, I already see that what you are saying is true of the book.
Ugh! I sure hope the show doesn't get too boring. I've already committed myself to this comparison.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Personally, I think that's one of the things that the show failed in massively. The book starts with familiar things, everyone knows the conservative, closed minded townsfolk and we learn the world alongside them, but, in my opinion, since the cast in the show is already so progressive, it's harder to show the culture clash when they travel abroad.
@SuddenReal
Oh! Good point. That's a great way of stepping back and looking at one of the problems this show is going to create for itself.
This is one of the biggest mistakes I see in the show. We are presented with the glorious idea of a chosen one, while the book makes it clear immediately, being the chosen one is a curse as much as a blessing if not more. He will save the world AND break it AND die doing it. No one would want to be the dragon, the only exception being it seems like a better fate than just going mad as a male channeler and slaughtering people. But in general it’s not a good thing.
The Lord of the Rings trailers started on establishing shots of Hobbiton, Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, establishing shots of other locations like Rivendale, things go dark and then Gandalf asking, "Is it secret? Is it safe?" You're then bombarded with frightening monsters and action scenes. Frodo saying, "I wish it had never come to me," and Gandalf's kind reply, "So does everyone who lives through hard times."
Compare that to The Wheel of Time trailer, and all we have is a complete mess that's being described.
Its especially weird (but a conscious choice) to bang on about the Aes Sedai when they are barely in the first book. Rafe wanted them front and center, he's sees the draw of them being "they're women in power". This is also why they go for 5 and not 3, they hide the boys and put them in the background. Funny thing is this completely ignores the best thing about Aes Sedai. It had nothing to do with power, they couldn't use their power on innocents anyway. Their strength was in manipulation and the perception of themselves they crafted.
The "mystery of the characters" and not being attached to any of them is a good pick up. The series maintains that almost the entire way through 🤣
There were no easter eggs in the trailer. Well MAYBE Moiraine fighting alongside Lan, because that actually expanded upon the books and showed you a scene that was only talked about before. Rather than replacing what happened in them.
WTF! The boys get shoved to the side?! Uh... I thought Rand was our MC? What the Hell are people thinking?! My guess, from the book so far (Chapter 15) is that Rand is the Dragon. That's what we--the readers--expect. Books typically follow the POV of "the chosen one" because it will be the most affected character with the most interesting choices to make. If Rand is the chosen one and pushed to the side, we can expect a boring story. What the He'll?!
Moiraine and Lan having a fight scene was the thing that interested me the most. If the chosen one is shoved to the side, I hope we at least get more Moiraine/Lan screen time.
@@readingwithrebeccanicole Yes Moiraine is definitely the main character of the series. You only have to look at the posters for season 2 to see that continued too.
@@readingwithrebeccanicole Hmmmm..... as much as I really enjoy Moiraine, this choice signals problems down the line.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS engaging in good faith here. moirane is not the main character. she is the only grown up apart from lan or nynaeve and
they deliberately reduced her competence from the book (which i hate) to give her an arc like s1 is the fall and s2 and 3 will be a bit of redemption IMO
Also that guy makes many anti woke videos with selective truths and IGNORING the fact that more than 50% POV chapters are from women in the books so take it with a big grain of salt or maybe you are also 'anti woke' idk just telling you
Book 1 is not representative of the whole series. there are 5 Paragraphs of rand in book 3 he is main character but all 6 of them are really the main characters( 6th one is elayne)
@@JustAFrame Oh, I don't know how I feel about turning Moiraine incompetent. I'm not far enough in the series to know what her role is as a storytelling tool. Depending on what that is, it could alter the final outcome.
No matter what, it's never a good idea to dumb down or reduce an already beloved character.
Hopefully I can give a fair review of this adaptation. I judge storytelling. As a developmental editor, it's my job to help writers figure out the best story for their intended audience. On this channel, I only look at political and social issues as storytelling elements. But I will definitely mention where major deviations from source material are made, or where I'm seeing overused tropes, or where it seems that changes have been made for political/social reasons at the cost of being an adaptation that stays true to characters and plot and world.
Rafe Judkins said in an interview that he didn't care about the book fans, he was pushing his narrative to bring in more people with a view similar to his, and that if he pissed off the book fans, then who cares, because he didnt make it for them.
The problem is, Amazon didn't give us a trailer...ever. Only teasers. A trailer really needs to establish characters, storyline and conflict and epic visuals to draw you in. None of Amazon's promotional material for Wheel of Time does this, they only gave us very choppy visuals.
As a long-time fan, the trailer was mildly disappointing at the time. It looked too bright, and cheap, and it was obvious that changes had been made. With expectations lowered, the first couple of episodes were not bad. It went rapidly downhill from there, to the point where I'm not interested in season 2. And with Rings of Power being similarly terrible, I quit prime video too. It seems the angle they were going for was "Wheel of Time, but as a cheaply made teen drama."
I can only assume they want it to appeal to a wider audience, but they just ended up alienating the book fans. And for it to succeed, they really needed good word of mouth from the fans to generate a buzz, which actually happened with Shadow and Bone.
Good review, I look forward to your thoughts on the books and the show. The books are great!
Yeah, Shadow and Bone was unique, by my experience. But it did start to lose track of what it was supposed to be doing. I don't know how long it's going to take for these studios to realize that making big changes to stories and characters that are already super popular in another medium is a bad idea.
I agree that some bits looked cheap. I think a lot of it is the costume design. I need to see more of the series, but Episode 1 had big red flags in the costume department.
I would hope that you could see this series as a different turning of the Wheel. Also, part of the problem they had with pacing is incredibly common for the first season. They had the added problems of losing a lead actor half way through the first season and the pandemic was a real problem for the CGI and the amount of extras working on set. If it was really that disappointing to you I can understand that. This was never going to be as intricate as the books, they were always going to have to change things quite a bit
@@karenholmes6565 Hi, although it was clear from the trailer that the look of show wasn't very good, but once the show started the bigger problem was with the writing. It veered far away from the books, left out the things that made Eye of the World interesting, and put in a lot of stuff that was plain wrong, poorly done and boring. Love triangle? Fridged wife? Mat's home life? Women's circle initiation? Whitecloaks hunting Aes Sedai? Practically in sight of the Tower? Lan? They didn't explain the One Power very well, and some of the little explanation they did give was just wrong, and changes the story, the characters and the world. I don't know what story this is, but it's not the Wheel of Time.
@@andrewvalentine797 Hey, I get it. Some people cannot switch mediums for beloved books. I never expected a television series to accomplish the impossible, to capture all of the delight Jordan's treasured story telling. It is a new story. It is another turning of the Wheel. It has to be its own thing because there is no way they could follow the books.
Superfan (read the first book when it came out) perspective: No, the teaser and trailer were not full of Easter eggs or shots that made me go, "Ooh!" Instead, the teaser made me go, "What the actual fuck is this? Who is that supposed to be? Why is this teaser focusing on the enormous, when the story is supposed to start small and grow like The Hobbit? Why are all these people dark-skinned? That's supposed to be a distinctive feature of particular cultures that we don't meet until the second book! Five people? Blood and bloody ashes, this makes as much sense as a light-blinded Aielman drunk on too many cups of mother's milk dancing in the streets of Tar Valon! And is that seriously supposed to be weaving the One Power? Gah! I'm just going to run off and join the Tinkers at this rate."
Seriously. I saw the teaser and was sure the Forsaken were involved in this thing's production.
Are you planning on reading all of the books and reacting to the 8 or so seasons they are planning on making? I think you will enjoy the books for sure, less certain on the show 😅.
If I enjoy the first three books, I will absolutely continue with it. I've heard there are a handful of weaker books in the series, so I have been warned, and I'm not above whizzing through a weaker book to get to the good ones, and I hear the series ending is very satisfying.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The weaker books are really only in comparison to the rest, they're still quite good. The "slog", as it's sometimes called, is really only parts of books 9 and 10.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I'm fairly confident you'll keep on through the rest of the series if you're using the first three books as a gauge! Hell, if you use the first 6 lol (book 5 is my favourite).
It also depends on what you end up enjoying about the books as well as how detail oriented a reader you are. Most people consider books 9 and 10, sometimes also the majority of book 8, to be the weaker books, but I know that I only ever struggled to enjoy book 10 and that was on my first read of it; without spoilers, book 10 deals a lot with the repercussions/reactions to something from book 9 (of course in addition to its own plot). However, I am someone who reads series I enjoy repeatedly to pick up on details I may have missed my first read through, to try and pick up on more foreshadowing, etc, and I was reading these books as they were released post-book 9 so I reread the series a lot waiting on the following release.
@ArdghalTheThinker
This is what I've heard. ☝
@patrickhill8494
I'm sure I read them all. And I think you are right. Which books I love or despise will depend on what attracts me most about the series.
I fall into category 2. Keep meaning to read the books and have not had the time. So, I gave the show a try. Watched it all. I will probably watch season 2, but I will need a refresher (thanks for providing one) before I see it.
Haha! Happy to be of assistance. If the book is mindblowing, I'll be sure to say so, and recommend it in a video.
The Eye of the World, +29hr audiobook narrated by M. Kramer & K. Reading
ua-cam.com/video/y5jmnpvD0kE/v-deo.html
I wish the shows creators would watch this video
watching the trailer as a person who'd read the first 5 books over 1/2 a dozen times, the trailers lost me cos i just couldn't piece what was happening and connect them to book moments, 1/2 the characters didn't seem to look like whom they were based off of so didn't even know whom they were sposed to be until i'd googled it
Yeah I agree that the trailers (season one and two) go for a throw spaghetti on the wall method that I don't like. That being said I had no clue as a book reader that they were making a show until about two weeks before the release. An I was absolutely ecstatic to see the trailer. I watched the first three episodes and immediately went online to see everyone else's reactions. Eventually it led me to a really great online group of people. So I'll always be grateful to the show for that.
Oh nice! I'm so glad that it did that for ya.
I'm excited to get into this series.... after 25 years of avoiding it 😅
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I'm glad you are too! Btw the first season also covers part of the prequel novella New Spring but most people don't read it until after book 10
The WoT is my all time favourite fantasy series. If you read it enough times you find that there are hidden stories in the background that are never spelled out. You are left to put them together your self, or not. The show is an anomination.
I've not read the books but after watching series one in full (only because I happened to have Amazon Prime for a month for another unrelated reason) I decided to check out this show, and to be quite honest without this channel I would have probably given up on it after episode 2. Those doing the screenwriting for the show just don't seem to know how to flesh out characters, set the scene, progress story arcs, or even have a story line that is consistent and characters that act with at least a modicum of common sense (or even as teenagers would in this sort of situation). I didn't like any of the characters, and I'm not talking about the 5. The books must be a lot better for Amazon to have spent so much on this show. The problem is you probably need a person overseeing this that has as much respect for the source material as Peter Jackson did for Lord of the Rings and this is obviously not the case here, they were just told to try and create a Game of Thrones crossed with Lord of the Rings because that's what it seems to come across as without any attention to detail.
@@mattpotter8725just to react on the "books must be better than the show", the books are a fucking thrill to read.
@@mattpotter8725 the first book the eye of the world has some elements from Lord of the rings then the series start to being her on thing and George R.R. Martin tock some inspiration from The Wheel of Time to make Game of Thrones so that’s maybe why you feel it that way
Ooohh... that makes sense. Never saw it as something to draw in viewers who weren't already going to consume fantasy anyway.
Honestly, I don't know a single person (in person) who read the books and was intrigued by the trailer or teaser. 😬 It was a great opportunity for the studio to draw in new fans.... yeesh!
This is the Optimus Prime of trailer reactions.
😂 I don't know what that means.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS you don't know who Optimus Prime is???
@@danielherrin lol. I know who Optimus Prime is, but I think I'm missing a link. Does my review transform? 😳
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS well, if didn't know Optimus Prime I would have lost all faith in you.
@@danielherrin Haha. So are you going to explain the reference? Lol
The best thing about this show, was that it got me to funnily read the books
Got that Bangles song stuck in my head.
Haha. Bangles song? Did I miss something? I don't know what that is 😬
As a "superfan" the teaser and trailer was as you said a "cluster ...$%^*" no there will never be more than 3 dragon candidates. the Aes sedai rings were subtle rings that if you didnt know what they were you would pay it no attention. They Never wore clothes of the same colour as their Ajah .. many other mess ups(i cant say as they would be spoilers for you !!) but I was still excided and making excuses for the show as I liked the books so much. !
love the wheel of time
I'm really enjoying the book, so far, and hope that the show is enjoyable too, even if for its own sake, and not necessarily as a good translation of the source material.
I like how you breakdown your thoughts from the varied perspectives. I love the books and hate the show so much I have stopped watching what they have done as this adaptation. I look forward to hearing your honest opinion on how both the books and this adaptation was done.
I watched the first handful of episodes and have never gone back, I wouldn't call it bad but its as close as possible. IMO
Haha. Say it isn't so! I've committed myself to watching the show.
The first season had some troubles mostly due to he pandemic and because one of their leading actors didn't come back after the lockdown. They had to rewrite his character arc, which is really a shame. That had an avalanche impact on the plotting. The final episode was ruined because they could not have lots of extras on the set. I will be generous and hope that they get it together in season 2 now that they do not have either of these issues. I don't see this series as being the same as the book. In order to tell the story properly it would need to be an animated series. I hope they do that before I kick the bucket. Think of it this way, there are 14 books, the events of the books only cover 3 yrs. In order to really tell the story would require at least 10 yrs. The actors would age out of the roles.
Great analysis. Btw, I presume the aircon was off to avoid noise pollution while recording - there are ways to completely eliminate that via software, eg. OBS Studio comes with some filters built-in which you can enable. I don't know what you're using to record, but there should be something available in whatever you're using.
I eventually decided that I don't care about the floor noise. My denoise filter in premier does a pretty good job of filtering most of that out.
😅
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Perfect! :)
They did some animated sketches for this show that are SO MUCH BETTER than the actual show!
Unfortunately it isn't just the trailer that ignores what fans of the books will want. I'm not sure they made Wheel of Time for anyone...
Say it isn't so! 😢
I'm really enjoying the book, so far.
What is wrong with people?!
I can only assume that the folks in charge of these adaptations have their jobs because of either nepotism, bribery, or someone's sleeping with someone. These sort of choices are so obviously bad anyone with a brain could have told them it is a bad idea to ignore and piss off the pre-existing fanbase.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Its worse then that. They hired show runners who only care about "Modern Audiences" and "The Message". I'm honestly surprised they didn't call The Dark One, "The Orange One"
I’m not sure you can even call what they did wheel of time at all it genuinely feels like the show runners are stealing character names and the world map and then mucking about with no regard for the story that the original author wanted to tell.
I was hoping they wouldn’t break the world/lore… Like Paramount did with Halo. Sadly I can’t look away from a black hole sucking in a world I love and rebirthing an abomination. I’m easily entertained in the moment, but was pulled out of the world the second Rand and Egwene kissed, let alone more.
Thank you for your critical voice and reconstruction of dialog (videos through ep. 3). You are much better at catching things with your eye and articulating the critique than most of the critics I’ve seen.(it could just be that you have solutions and not just bashing).
Sadly the trailer did NOT appeal to this superfan and I'd been following Rafe Judkins progress since it was announced.
Yeah... I think folks need to consider what really draws in a crowd. Some of the cinematography was nice ... but that's not good enough to make people want to know what happens.
There's actually an Easter egg in the teaser for something that doesn't happen until like book 8 or 9. It was cool to notice it as a fan. But I don't think it had a place in the teaser or the trailer.
Tbh there are things in the trailer and teaser that fans will notice. Symbolism and such that will mean nothing to anyone that has read the books.
I never really thought about it with that lens though so I appreciate you pointing it out to us. So thanks for the perspective.
It's in book 7 and I just spilled out the beans I'm afraid. But it's not a spoiler for the show, this plot will be abandoned.
For me - having read most of the books I did like these points: Rosamond Pike YAY! The way they depicted the use of The One Power. But then I got a bit confused. Didn't Robert Jordan - with at least some care describe all characters? Yeah! After that it went down hill. But still I did watch the first season. The first couple of episodes where fine to a degree, but things didn't seem right from what I remembered reading. Before the season ended I couldn't stomach anymore; but I stuck it out. I lived in books and now I live in movies. Being on the elderly side now I prefer the movies at the moment. It just doesn't sit well with me when they change things from the books. We all know Thee Epic trilogy! I first read LotR in the late 70's or early 80's? It was thee only thing I read, along with that I had the complete 'Tolkien' set at the time; LotR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Sir Guain(?) and maybe 2 more. Friends would recommend books, series, etc... None of them captured me like LotR AND The Silmarillion! Being fairly young, I didn't have to go to the library, nor book stores to read something I dearly loved. I read all of the appendices and then started with The Hobbit and then LotR, then the Silmarillion! I read all of Middle Earth at least 20 times! When Peter Jackson came out with LotR - the books came to LIFE! The little change with Arwen was EPIC! "If you want him, come and claim him!" I really, REALLY wanted to see Glorfindel riding upon his horse - with BELL's ringing! I wanted to see and hear Legolas' bow SING! I didn't get those two things, but the rest of the films, environment, the Nazgul, the music, the Ents! OMG! Those Orc's, the Urik-hai!!! GANDALF!!! Eowyn!!! Almost everything was as I remembered but more beautiful, dreadful, heart stopping, fun and tragic than I had ever imagined. The Books Came To Life!!! I was hoping for the same here. But nope... I struggled with the way they changed the characters, and how they were as opposed to the books; then I just couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't get attached to the characters, albeit liking Rosamond Pike I was attached with Moiraine at first, but I didn't read her being with that lady... Did I? I don't think so and in 'them' doing such just tore away at that link. The choices the characters made also break any possible connection I may have had. Ring of Power bite the big one EXCEPT - some of the 'scene shots'/'stills'; Moria, the Dwarves!
Well, Rosamud Pike is the producer. This is HER show. She’ll do as she pleases. Girl power is all they care about. And hey, fine. Do that. But for crying out loud, quit hijacking good fantasy only to wreck it for the sake it diversity, equity and inclusion. Create something of your own. Someone original. Make a unique show with all the DEI you want.
Oh but wait. That would mean they don’t have a baked in fan base and the they are too lazy to even try and build their own fan base, let alone their own story.
Thank you so much for exposing the travesty, that is the Wheel of Time tv series, if one has read the books. After waiting so long for this epoch book series it go to the screen, to have to watch this poorly written fan fiction is so so so sad to me. Keep reading, you won’t regret the journey. Especially the last 4 books. 😀
I have a forth type of viewer for you, I read the first four books but wouldn't call myself a fan for mainly the reason of being an older reader who started reading fantasy and science fiction in the 70s. Because I'm a artist and graphic designer I found the fantasy explosion that happened around that time a lot of the stories were very similar and grew tired of the same tropes that came up repeatedly. So while I acknowledged those things I started the series hoping for a pleasant surprise as I found the first 5-6 seasons of GoT but with what I saw of this series I stopped watching after the 4th episode. Enjoying your analyses of media however and will continue to watch for your opinions.
I think I would say that this falls into the "fantasy genre fan" category, but as a sub category. "New and maybe experimental fantasy fan"
49°?!? How are you still alive!?!
Super fan here. Honestly, I never thought to watch the trailer from those three perspectives but I re-watching it all I get is the continuous flash of generic fantasy over and over. I don’t really see this trailer attracting non-fantasy fans, and being a super fan, I can say, it turned me away with its inaccuracies more than attracted me. This trailer and series in general is best suited for fans of generic fantasy.
The more I watch, the more I realize that this and many other big budget shows have the writing quality of scifi channel shows from the 90s and early 2000s..... in fact, some of those had better writing. 😬
Forgive me if I'm repeating anything from the Comments. My thoughts on the trailer's attempt to draw in non-fantasy/scifi viewers was "look! It's Rosamund Pike! We paid the big bucks, ohhhh yeahhh", hence the focus on Aes Sedai. For drawing in fantasy/scifi fans who haven't read the books, I think it was supposed to be "look! We squished Lord of the Rings with Games of Thrones! You love those things, c'mon". As for book fans, errr... This is harder as that's my group (and I didn't watch the trailer)... Maybe just "hey! we mentioned a bunch of things from the books! This is all you're gonna get, let's be honest". It's all awkward.
Seeing the trailer and teaser now, I think I'd have been at 25% excitement levels for things recognized. The rest would be confusion and disappointment, but I'm really hard to please with adaptations.
It pleases Rafe Judkins. The entire show only exists to please him.
Hat off to this con-man getting the Bezos bucks.
Every once in a while you hear a story of someone getting away with something totally outrageous, and you find yourself just saying "damn! Good for him!"
I’m excited and sad for you to watch the show and do a book comparison. I wont spoil anything for you though.
Compare this trailer to the original LOTR teaser trailer. Day and night difference.
I am dreadding this already. 😭
I just watched a trailer for a Sundance scifi movie that is outside of my usual interest, and I'm totally stoked about seeing it when it comes out. You see, these smaller studios have more at stake. They know they *need* to draw an audience when they cut a trailer. Amazon Prime are a bunch of bozos with too much money.
Birth/Rebirth? Landscape with Invisible Hand? Pod Generation?
@@stgeorge6140 Pod Generation. It just popped up in my YT feed. 👍👍
Books:mostly amazing. Show? Ugh. why did they do these books so dirty?
[i've read all of the books.Clearlly, i expect too much from hollywood].
Haha. This is what almost all the boof fans are telling me. 😭 What have I gotten myself into?!
The reason that the trailer isn't about anything, is because the TV show isn't about anything 😬 They excised most of the interesting, defining stuff that's in the books 😭 It's a travesty of an adaptation. You will see just by reading the first book 😐
This is what folks who love the books have been saying in my comments.
😭 I really hope I can just like it for its own sake... pretending it's not an adaptation... because, so far, I'm enjoying the book very much. I'd hate to see it poorly represented.
I love fantasy, but never read the books in this series (always sold out at my nearest bookstore). Now I don't want to, the trailer is so meh
I can tell you this... so far, the book is very enjoyable. I'm at around Chapter 20, at the moment. And I thought the first 10 chapters were better than the first episode (which covered the first 10 chapters). Maybe see if someone has a free audiobook of the first 10 chapters and give it a try on some long road trip or when you are tidying your house or doing the dishes or while you're in the shower. I try out lots of new fiction this way, and I don't come out of it feeling like I wasted my time. I highly recommend it!
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I will look into it, thank you
I tried the series after reading the book (okay, reading it a couple of times) and couldn't even watch past the beginning. They completely ruin the series.
A lot of superfans are saying this in the comments. 😬
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS, as you get further in the books, you'll learn how badly they screw up the lore right from the beginning.
@@frankrobinsjr.1719 ugh.... they should have called it "inspired by wheel of time"
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS, exactly!
As a life long reader of SciFi Fantasy I have learned to expect any media representation to be separate and distinct from the books. I read the book before the series. The series is inspired by the books but is not a 100% true representation of the books.
The primary purpose of movies and tv series are to make money. To do that it has to appeal to a broader base of potential viewers. I don’t necessarily disagree with your critique of the trailer and teaser. Could they have been better? Yes. The point I want to make is if fans of the books expect the movie/series to be 100% true to the book(s), they will always be disappointed. I prefer to have more realistic expectations and enjoy each on their stand alone merits.
How dare you have a sane and reasoned take?!? This is the internet! Ain't no room here for those kind of shenanigans. 🕶
I think there's a few super duper fans who will be upset if even the slightest changes are made. But there are definitely ways to adapt for film that don't make unnecessary drastic changes, and from what i am hearing from book fans in the comments is that there are some pretty big changes made to the world, the characters, and the story 😬 When producers get backlash for changes of that scale, I have to wonder what was going through their heads.
As far as trailers and teasers go, I really have to shake me head at this one, though. I made my family sit and watch it (7 adults who all have widely varying entertainment interests), just to make sure I wasn't completely off my rocker.... they all felt it failed to grab them.
@unrulysimian3897
I think the best way to look at adaptations these days is to consider them to be either "inspired by" or fan fiction. Either way, it doesn't have to take away from your ability to enjoy the show. There were some parts about it I really liked.
I like to look at the series and the books as being different turnings of the Wheel, or maybe what book readers know as a reality from a flicker flicker universe, or perhaps a reality borne from a ter'angreal. Book fans will understand this comment...lol
At the time, i remember thinking how generic fantasy it all looked. So, i assume it was aimed at die hard scifi fantasy people to let them know, yep, heres one more for the pile.
Yeah, the show is getting closer and closer to that "generic fantasy" you speak of. Such a shame. I've heard the books take it somewhere unique.
Read the books, the show is an insult
This seems to be the general opinion of the book superfans. 😬
Amazon seems very young as an "entertainment producer" (no idea how i should name this ). One moment they're overly grandiose, the next super conservative. You'll see this imbalance effecting major decisions. I hope they will grow into it, learn to trust the story and its characters as well as their own ability to create great content, starting with next season.
And hey, that process would be quite true to the books, as the first book isn't all that original and well crafted either. It all gets better and better.
We can all hope and pray that this is the situation. I have a feeling, however, that they still have enough money to not care too much about whether or not it's going to be a success or failure.
I don't know how one won't think that the aei sedai are interesting from the trailer, given how different it is from the usual as they are very powerful but can't use magic most of the time, they run the world but are called the servants and the vow of not lying, just screams intersting, to both non fantasy fan and fantasy fan, as the chosen one dark Lord definitely won't interest the later it might the former but this definitely would so idk why you think people would find it uninteresting, trailer as a whole wasn't all that but the aei sedai oaths really would pull people in imo especially given how generic the premise of wot is
I definitely possible that the concept of the Aes-Sedai didn't intrigue me because I've seen this done many times before, which might be a result of reading so much fantasy that was possibly inspired by these books. 🤷♀️ I'm not sure that the chosen one thing would have been the best to showcase, either, except perhaps the idea of a chosen one being anyone of 5 different people. That would have been the best thing to showcase, I think. As for the Aes-Sedai, probably the binary nature of the One Power would be the most intriguing to a non-fantasy lover. I don't know if that's been portrayed much in film.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS the Aes Sedai come across a lot like the Dune's Bene Gesserit. While other things you've read may have come after The Wheel of Time, Dune was out decades before it.
@@danielmennel4565 Yes! I read Dune about... 20 years ago. So that might explain it.
A teaser trailer and a trailer aren’t the same thing.
Teaser trailers are really for fans. Real Trailers are trailers.
Perhaps I've seen the trailer or the teaser, doesn't matter. Whatever I've seen solidified my decision to not ever watch the show. Nynaeve is not supposed to push Egwene in a river, Nynaeve freed herself from her force blockage while trapped in a sinking boat. The colours surrounding Egvene look like poisonous chemicals and not forthtelling sings of her future. Everything looks cheap and fake. The "Sword of truth" kind of awful adaptation and that show had better costume designs.
PS I've read the books and the teaser blew my mind - I expected the show to be unwatchable and it turned out to be worse.
I personally love the show a ton
My mother says that she binged the whole thing right after I posted my review of episode 1. She enjoys it a lot. That gives me hope that, even if it deviates from the source material, it might be good as its own thing. I won't know until I get through it all.
Season 1 of the tv show is incorporating elements of the entire series, not just book 1. There are significant differences between book 1 and the book series as a whole. One thing the tv show is trying to do is take advantage of the fact that it knows where the story is going.
The trailers highlight WOT's prominent role for numerous & varied female characters who have agency rather than being there for sexual exploitation or simply advancing the stories of male characters, the active nature and use of magic in this world, and the respectful incorporation of diverse casting & real-world cultural elements (philosophy, clothing/hair, architecture, etc.). This is what sets the tv show apart from other prominent fantasy adaptations like LOTR or GOT.
The fantasy tropes of book 1 are exactly what does NOT set WOT apart from other fantasy books series - book 1 of WOT largely echoes LOTR. (Robert Jordan did this intentionally as both a storytelling device and because it made good business sense at the time.) It's only in the later books where the author fully establishes the unique contributions of the WOT book series. The constrained originality of book 1 relative to the much greater originality of the overall series is one reason why the tv show in s1 incorporated elements of the entire book series, rather than attempting a straight adaptation of only book 1.
You may be interested to read my comments on your other recent WOT video. As a long-time super fan of the WOT book series, I appreciate your interest in the books and associated media. I just think some of the additional background I provide on the book series and tv adaptation would be beneficial to your analysis.
I'm all game for a totally new kind of epic fantasy (really looking forward to what is adapted for Brandon Sanderson and Joe Abercrombie). If there are going to be significant deviations, though, i fell like it would be smart of the authors to insist that the shows/movies are advertised as "inspired by such and such book". I can enjoy that sort of thing if it is executed properly. For instance, I adore the Howl's Moving Castle trilogy (books 1 and 2, mostly). When Miyazaki adapted it, he was pretty clear that it was inspired by these books, not a direct adaptation. I love the movie and the books. Both do different things. Just be honest, and never tell the pre-existing audience that you are improving it when you are making really big changes that kind of undo key elements of what was loved in the original. (
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONSThe Showrunner has said many times that this is an adaption based on the entire series. So they haven’t said that this is an improvement or anything. Although as someone who was read the entire series over 10x, some elements are improved in the show IMHO.There are things that RJ was constrained by writing in the 90s that just don’t exist to the same extent now. Also certain changes make it easy to see how they can improve character arcs, making them a bit more understandable and less frustrating
@@RiseeRee I am all for the rearrangement of revelations for better effect but there are some changes that have been made which appear to negate setups in the book and dramatically change characters. I'll wait to see where it goes, for sure. I'm not incapable of appreciating a story for its own sake, but I'm also going to compare to the books.
I kinda disagree with this. While book 1 is more of a traditional adventure fantasy, it's arguably the most important book in the series as it set the foundation for the rest of the series and did the most work building the world and characters. Book one also seems to have a better idea of how the rest of the series would play out with the heaps of foreshadowing that wouldn't get payoffs until the very end of the series. I think a more faithful but abridged version of the first book would have done a better job then S1 overall.
@@galetempus1979 Fair points! Definitely RJ had a ton of great foreshadowing in tEotW, and I miss plenty of b1 elements. I'll be vague to avoid spoiling any first-time readers, but I thought the warder plot in e5 was excessive and felt like that time could have been much better spent on b1-content like wolves, boys & Lan, etc. I also feel like a few minutes more in each episodes could have allowed more time for dreams, prophecies, quiet character moments, etc. directly from b1. Outside of Rand's changed confrontation, e8 was a mess (though COVID restricted them from their original plan and what they could do instead).
But I think focusing on channelers in e4 and e6, relative to say more time w/ boys on road or adventures in the capital city, makes a lot of sense in terms of their relative importance over entirety of WoT, what sets WoT apart from other fantasy franchises that have been adapted on screen, the real-world costs & other production challenges associated with building sets and hiring actors with varying star power for roles that vary drastically in their appearance across the story, etc.
The studio-imposed 8 episodes, approximately 60 minutes each season order creates tradeoffs. The studios get to have a say - the rights were sold to them, they are spending the tens of millions of dollars to make it happen, they make tv for a living, and they have no personal attachment to WoT outside of the fact it's good story that a bunch of book readers love (but successful tv shows have way way more fans than even a major book series like WoT).
Rafe's original season breakdown was 10 eps. I think that when Rafe and the other writers went to write the 8 episodes, they messed up in cutting too much of the b1 content that would have otherwise stayed in while retaining the later book content they were already planning to move forward. But that's only my theory, and is obviously been developed in part to help me maintain my optimism about the people involved and that the show will get better over time. (If this live-action production is unsuccessful, history suggest we won't get a second attempt for decades, if ever. There are too many other potential IPs out there that risk-averse studios will gravitate toward instead.)
In summary, some of the changes make sense to me, particularly in light of the constraints of real-world production constraints. I choose to remain optimistic and focus on the positive, even I readily agree that the show has flaws and I think it would have been better if it had made certain decisions differently.
Sadly the WoT trailer was a cluster. I liked the books but have not read them in decades. Tried watching the show but its so...meh. Maybe I will try again, but probably not, as life is short.
I do think that whoever makes movie and show trailers needs to understand that they have to try to appeal to the pre-existing fans AND try to draw in new people.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Agreed. IMHO many modern trailers take the twitter approach, spoil the whole movie for those with a 3 second attention span.
Whoa buddy that entire tv series was junk. It is a story using tiny pieces of the books, but inelloquently and trashy. I was utterly disappointed with the mc being moraine and the ais sedai instead of rand perrin and mat...at least in the beginning.
The trailers need to show what makes each fantasy series unique to their particular story, otherwise all this fantasy stuff just comes across as 'LOTR-lite' or even worse - The Rings of Power-lite!!!😜🤣🤣🤣
Here's Hog, dropping truth like grenades. If only these showrunners didn't have skulls as thick as a fallout shelter. 😂
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@@dutenica 👀
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS 🤷♂️
Super Fan perspective (I have read the entire series twice, and listened to the audio books once)
The trailer was for book fans more than to entice new viewers. The book fans were crucial to marketing the show. They were trying to excite book fans by lacing certain Easter eggs. For example, Egwene rising up from the pool of water was tremendously exciting for reasons I cannot say here because they are spoilers.
As far as the "5", it was not that big of a deal, because the characters are known as the "Emond's Field Five". All of them are important to the overall story, so expanding their role in the first season was not a deal breaker.
I think that whether you have a good opinion about the trailer/teaser it did its job. WoT was the highest rated show on Amazon for that entire year.
As far as the costumes, there are people that work in costuming that were so impressed with the costumes they recreated them.
The show has only a few similarities to the books of the series. The dragon can only be a man in the books. That's why they mainly hunt for male users of magic. The fact that Moiraine loses her magic is not mentioned in the book, but Siuan Sanche and her assistant are appeased or lost their magic as punishment during the rebellion in the white tower. Another book series that is destroyed by the Amazon streaming service, just like Netflix did with the Witcher. Such a shame that people who don't have the creativity to write original work themselves have the opportunity and the power to destroy the beautiful work of others.