Defining and using color space aware tools
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2023
- We explore how you use color space aware and unaware tools and what the difference is.
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Congrats on your portraits display interview Mr. Cullen.
I didn't know that about HDR tools. One is still learning. It would definitely be worth mentioning how Qualifier or Color Warper behaves.
bro I love you. and falling in love with color grading too, because of you.
As always impeccable delivery of these essential concepts.
Good advice, appreciate you!
Simple yet perfectly demonstrated. Excellent demo, Cullen! 🙌
I've sort of gravitated to using the HDR wheels because I like the look of what they are doing.
I'm a big fan of WYSIWYG. However its a bit more tricky using the zones on the HDR pallet as they are not a simple/straightforward to use as the analogue/stoneage Primaries.
Or I could be completely wrong.
It's kinda the same reason many grade in Rec709 and don't manage at all (it feels faster/familiar), but shit can the fan when you have to get predictable results under various client demands and to exact specs.
Thank you for this video, Cullen.
Your videos are so informative. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with us. 😊
Although you explained it well - my bet is a lot of people are still unsure about why and how. I think the color warper is also color space aware. And a point of dispute that I have had with people is that the colorspace and workflow only inherits down stream. If you set your timeline to rec709 on a non color managed workflow and you put log footage on the timeline - you're not working in LOG - you are working on LOG in rec709. So even if you have a CST at the end of your node tree with the output set to rec709 - you aren't actually working in LOG under it.
Can't tell you how many pros have made that claim.
But it seems most are now doing it correctly by setting the timeline to DWG and doing the camera specific LOG conversion on the first node and the DWG to rec709 at the end.
Good points as always. Start with the widest space and convert down so you’re not clipping off data, thereby maintaining a nondestructive workflow?
Hi, In the recent feature film I graded, I used a non color managed workflow ie. Davinci YRGB and I didn't change the timeline space from REC709 scene to DWG. I was too deep untill I realised what I'd done. But I found a way to counter the problem.
To make my CST situation easier I made the LOG TO DWG node in Group PRE level, and the DWG to REC709 2.4 in the group post level in order to change the gamma settings all at once for the desired output.
To make my HDR tool color space aware I had to use the three dot menu in the zones palette to show the HDR tool what color space and gamma I want it to work at. So I used to set it to DWG/intermediate and I observed the histogram change in the zones palette. It usually broadened in comparison to default state.
Then I would make my own zones and use the wheels.
This worked out for me, and I had recomment it to those who are too deep into a color grade and didn't set the color management to davinci color managed or didn't set the timeline to DWG.
Cheers.
@@yogasuniverse Dude, it's a discussion related to the topic. Kind of what comments are about. If you don't like a comment - just scroll to the next one. Not trolling Cullen, I actually support him and send people his way on an almost daily basis.
And the word "demonstrative" is not an insult, just sounds like one. I have no problem you calling me that, I'd suggest you look it up though ( there that's condescending )
hi! i have a question, what if you put node before the cst in - dwg (For example using it to adjust balance/contrast) does that have a difference in visual rather than putting it after the cst even though you're working in a DWG timeline color space? thanks in advance for the answer :)
simple and important
Nerdy lessons yes thanks
Yes, but I'm waiting for when DaVinci begins to learn rapidly and becomes self-aware seizing control of all gamma.
It kinda is 😋
Yes but even if a tool is fully automatic you should still understand the basic concept of it
I wish one day we will have color space aware LUTs. It is painful to have LUTs that you can rely on but then you cannot use them on different camera
Extremely helpful, as always. However, you left me confused. Which role do the log wheels play in this game? Wouldn't it make sense to work in a linear space and use the primaries for linear and the log wheels for non-linear operations?
I might sound stupid but before we did the whole grading process from head to start: as a person working in tv this is extremely quick way of doing things: BUT! the material I have is not perfectly shot so how should I be making the rest of the corrections?
I feel I’m so lost because I can’t trust on my scopes like before. You know I’been taught to grade black and white to certain limits for TV - how about now? I have a lot to learn since I has quite a short training for this and a lot has changed since 2016-2017 since I was studying.
I haven’t found any videos where someone would explain the correct process of grading AFTER color transform in Aces… what should I use? Primary wheels, log wheels, hdr wheels, curves?
Also I’m quite interested how vfx works with Aces.
I'm curious how/why the gain knob functions as an exposure adjustment in linear color space, even though the explanation might be over my head.
Setting Gamma in HDR zones palette IN, HDR zones gives different results than setting Gamma in the node even though color space stays the same. Why is that?
Because the HDR tool maps the light information in "stops" from its interpretation of the Gamma/Log of the footage. And when you change its Gamma, you are changing its interpretation, what changes its result. Changing the Gamma at the Node level only sets a conversion before the adjustments and another inverse conversion after it. If you change Gamma in the node and use the HDR tool, it will try to interpret the footage as the Gamma it was set, but its being fed with a signal converted to the Gamma you've set in the node.
My question here is:
What is the reason then to set a color space transform from slog3 to DWG in front of the pipline and transform it from DWG to Rec 709 in the end? I have made an exposure adjustments in the primaries in this given timeline and compared it to the exact same adjustments made with only a CST from slog3 to Rec 709 in the end of the timeline. The outcome was not the same picture.
DWG is just a larger color space to work in. You have more flexibility to bend and twist the colors to your liking (of course, the colors recorded by your cam in LOG will not change), but the working space that you have in DWG is just larger than LOG color space.
❤
You can trust Mr. Kelly to drop a pun and not even notice it 😃
Now I'm aware that I wasn't aware of the awareness of the tools
🐐🐐🐐
First in here
Why is your image so noisy this time..?
Dear Cullen, I may regret to say that you are getting away from creative content and getting in the giggy area which will never practically help us. It seems foogy where all these recent contents you are uploading will end. I still appreciate your hard work, yet I, friendly suggest that you give a break with youtube videos for awhile to decide your target audience and we decide if we are going to invest our 15 minutes every week as your followers. If you are having difficulties to find topics, I or any other subscriber can help you. Thank you.
I'd probably argue that a solid technical understanding of what each operation in your pipeline is doing will enable you to make more robust color grades that carry well, and to debug and understand when to use and when not to use certain operations.
The fact that it's possible to get good results by just trying stuff at random until you find something that works and hack together a pipeline based on favorite operations rather than based on any first principles doesn't mean that the principles are meaningless. If anything, they provide incredible guidance.
This dude is a professional colorist that has made it obvious from day one he nerds out over this stuff. His approach is what it's always been, it seems like you are in the wrong place. I think most people come here for a deeper understanding of the tools that are available to us in Davinci Resolve and how they work independently and together. If you are looking for "content" you are more than welcome to go swim at the shallow end of the pool. There are plenty of youtubers who will oblige.
@@bigsnap5 I know what there is and what there isn’t on UA-cam. I don’t need your “welcome” to watch anything, this was first. Secondly, my comment is friendly and as an audience I pointed out my opinion, it was meant to be addressed to the channel owner, not his fanboys.
I have to disagree. These videos are what makes Cullen and his channel a goldmine of information.
Respectfully we are all here for the in-depth technical explanations. There are plenty of creative channels to go and watch if this is too much for you or out of your interest level. One could argue that a solid understanding of the science behind the tools could lead you to take full advantage of their capabilities and expand your creative abilities. So please allow the rest of us to get the content we want, as it is really not available elsewhere on UA-cam.