Who Comes After LeBron: 2003 NBA Redraft | Bill Simmons's Book of Basketball 2.0 | The Ringer
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by NBA draft guru Chad Ford to redraft the 2003 NBA draft. This draft featured LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, and Chris Bosh among others, and also had one of the draft’s all-time busts, Darko Milicic.
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The disrespect to Kaman and Calderon.....
lol im surprised they picked millicic and even james jones over kaman
Darko over Caveman? DARKO?! The disrespect to Chris Kaman is crazy. He made an All-Star team but isn’t better than Darko, Perkins, James Jones, etc? Hoped they would fix this injustice with the reupload but they didn’t, FOR SHAME!
@@Andy81293 lol they are considered experts and bill simmons is a smart guy, but forgetting about chris kaman?
MIKEDOES didn’t even forget about him, they flat out dismissed him. The other guy even asked, “ are you telling me you’d rather have Steve Blake, Luke Ridnour, or Matt Bonner...or Chris Kaman”. Kaman isn’t a hall of famer or anything remotely close to it but come on, how are you going to shit on the mans career like that.
@@Andy81293 lol luke ridnour and steve blake, i'd take blake and ridnour over james jones
Don't stop doing this series, Bill. It's my favorite podcast. I've been a draft nut for years- the Lampe Knicks pick was the highwater mark! Love reliving that stuff.
It's the most boring idea they could possibly do but true basketball heads love it
@@AirCanada1J5 If you followed these drafts as I did, obviously it's not boring. I remember all this stuff like it was yesterday. At the end of the podcast, he mentioned that he wasn't going to continue them unless he saw more support for them. This is my vote of confidence- amazing content. Love the guests he has on. More Joe House!
@@ryannelson2325 oh I love it too, I'm just saying I can see most subscribers hating this because most non NBA heads will know the players after pick 5 or the controversy
Hudsanity Simmons has a talent for popularizing minutia and obscurity. I think it translates for the average fan. But who knows.
Kaman in 2006 was a 9/9.5 guy and in the playoffs (11 games) put up 11/8 on 59% shooting. Talk about a C who can play 20 minutes for you, he was the one. 2010 he was an 18.5/9.5 guy. He even joined Portland in 2015 (51 win team) where he put up 8.5/6.5 in 19 minutes.
I get that Perk was a Celtic, but Kaman would have been better for both those Celtics and Thunder teams.
For sure
Perk was an elite defender, Kaman was mediocre at best
Well said
@@bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee elite defender that's a stretch he was a brickhouse
Agreed. Kaman WAY underrated on this list!
Further, I'd take Nick Collison over Darko Milicic 10/10 times!
As a Detroit native remembering this draft makes me physically ill bruh...
If DET gets Wade, Melo, or Bosh I think they win in 04' (which they actually did) and then 2 of the next 3 minimum.
Billups
Wade or Rip
Prince or Melo
Sheed
Ben Wallace
It would've been crazy
Seriously, I don't understand how this is even an argument. If the pistons took Wade, who was an All star by year two and a champion and finals MVP by year three, they bare minimum win two of the next three. I'd say they win all three, cause the pistons lost to wade and Miami in 06. So with Wade not being there, the pistons assuredly make the finals again. Short of like, the Spurs getting Kobe or something like that, there wasn't a move to be made for any other team that would realistically pose a significant enough challenge to Detroit. IMHO, pistons draft wade and they three peat EASY
Wade. Rip could play some 3. What a team that would be. I've been to auburn hills to watch Grant Hill a couple times. Good times.
1996 redraft: if yr goal is to win titles, ray allen over allen iverson
2003 redraft: chris bosh wins titles, but you gotta choose carmelo
andrew mencias if prime Carmelo was ever the 3rd best player on a team, better believe whatever team that is, is winning titles. Melo > Bosh.
When did allen win a chip with the bucks?
Scotty Hong i dont disagree with you. It was simmons’ argument in the 1996 redraft and im pointing out how inconsistent it is
Jamal S. I agree, and i choose iverson over allen too. My point is how inconsistent bill’s logic is in the redrafts
andrew mencias carmelo was the 3rd best player on OKC and Houston and showed he was absolutely unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to be a better team
Redraft reuploaded
Wade could've played Mike James role off Pistons bench and won a championship as a rookie. Then transitioned into a Vinnie Johnson role in '05 and Pistons would've won b2b. Then instead of leading Heat to title in '06, he would've been leading Pistons to a three-peat.
And had he won 3 championships his first 3 yrs, he could've ended up with more titles than Jordan.
07 and 08 too..for sure..they were great without wade from 04-08 lol
i like that this dude always smiles even through the tj ford injury description hahahahahahaha
The best thing in this entire video is Chad's reaction to Bill's 13th pick...priceless.
D-Wade at #2 no question
So good they needed a re-redraft?
Chad Ford has to retroactively update his picks somehow.
@@RedPilledDan either that or the audio and video was desynced for the last ten minutes of the original
They had to cut out parts of it.
Michael Eyob they took out stuff about kirk hinrich and alcoholism. I asked a question about it then the other video got privatized.
@@aro3275 yeah that's what I noticed too. That shit was news to me. I guess it was private
Did Simmons just say Bill Russel was top 3 all time?? Lol he’s an unapologetic homer, I love it
You don't think he is #3 all-time? Let me guess...you have Lebron #1, Kobe #2, and...Curry #3?
@@jaysonmagro9131 MJ, Bron, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem easily better than him. No disrespect but Russell played in the weakest era of basketball.
@@TheDerpOnline what could Russell have done differently in his career for you to consider him a top-3 all-time player? Win more championships?? You are holding it against him that he played in the 60s, so I guess the only way for him to be top-3, in your opinion, is to have been born later. Let's say Russell was born exactly ten years later and was drafted in 1969 and played the majority of his career in the 70s instead of the 60s, Russell would have......dominated the 70s and won nearly every championship too.
@@jaysonmagro9131 I'm not even trying to discredit Russell. Still one of the greatest. He could have theoretically done just as well as on any other era but no one knows really. I reckon guys I've mentioned could've won consecutive titles themselves in the 60's. It's not really Russell's fault at all. Also the reason why Pele isn't the undisputed GOAT in football is because he never played in Europe. The level of competition matters.
There are only a handful of truly revolutionary players - Bill Russell, Julius Erving, Steph Curry - who truly changed the way the game was played. Add 11 championships, 5 MVPs, and you can definitely make a case for Russell at #3.
The Ringer presents The ReUploadables!
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Chris Kaman was an all-star smh
the disrespect SMFH
@MARK AZIZ right? I said the same thing in the original video and in this one
ONE time in his career lmao
So is Roy Hibbert.
@@theronquishow5837 Lmao Thank you
Nice, this is the 1st time im getting to watch these
I feel like Kirk Heinrich was very underrated for this draft.
Darko, James jones over steve blake ?? steve blake was a SOLID SOLID backup point guard id take over both of them
Was even a serviceable starter for a bit. Good passer, could play D and shoot the 3. A good all around PG to put next to a ball dominant star.
James Jones as court gm
@@bon-chan7197 Steve Blake as a court bouncer
I though I was going crazy for the first five minutes of this video. Déjà vu
Looking forward to the next few redrafts
2004: Lots of HS talent and solid careers, no big stars after Dwight
2005: After CP3 you have Deron, but there'd be a lot of debate afterwards
2006: No superstars, but Aldridge, Lowry, Millsap, Rondo etc to choose from (Roy too)
And then you reach 07/08/09 where you still have lots of guys still playing today, all interesting years too
Yeah whatever guy, get a hobby
I remember watching these through Covid year kept me entertained
Please make another one love to revisit the history like that.
I feel like I’ve seen this before
You have but it was made private
I've been sober for a couple weeks and I can assure you this already happened.
@@Buttington_Headerson yes it was, and 2 days ago i wanted to watch it, but it said the videos was made private so maybe there was a problem
Thanks for shouting out bosh. That 15-16 heat team was going all the way
As a heat fan who watching all those games, being as unbiased as possible, they were eastern conference championship bound, that was the year wade just looked like he turned the clock back 6 years out of nowhere, that was a 32 year old wade without bosh and without whiteside which now seems like not a big deal but that was whiteside when no one thought he was good and he still gave a shit he averaged 17 and 14 that season and wade forced that team to 7 games in that second round against a 56 win Toronto team averaging 24/6/4, I just think not even including whiteside just with bosh, wade is getting his team to that ECF and idk if they’d have won but I think it would’ve gone at least 6 games either way
100% if Miami had Bosh..they would’ve beat both Toronto (went to game 7) and Cleveland in the ECF. That was a really underrated season that people forget about in the post LeBron Era
Kaman should be on there. You repost a redraft and still don’t get it right.
Yeah but it's not an edited one.
Please DO NOT stop doing these!
rollwithem I mean at some point they will catch up lol 😂
Still don't get why they didn't draft Chris Kaman... Dude was an all star (not a great one but still that's a pretty big achievement and one you hope a player you draft get's to)... I basically said the same thing in the original video
Same here. Jose Calderon too
@@timothyd1496 José Calderón is a much more acceptable pass, because although he was a solid starter, he was never an all star level player, but if he was taken instead of James Jones or Darko or Kendrick Perkins it wouldn't have been a travesty at all
they forgot jose calderon too i mean james jones really?....o and you can make the case luke ridnour based on peak and longevity and size as a pg cause you can move him to the sg and not lose much...I really thought he was a 7th man on a title team type player for a few years after his peak 2004-2006 type seasons..he had a lot of what makes a backup guard special after his prime where he was a mid tier starter ...
I like this guy Bill, you need to have him on more often!
The Heat would have made the ecf in 2016 had Bosh been healthy
They would have beat cleveland in the ecf bro ! 15-16 heat were BEAT
@@serjikzolfaghari2383 on god
instablaster.
@@serjikzolfaghari2383 delusional
How do they not mention that Carmelo was robbed of ROY
beats Lebron in every stat except assist, team record Den 43-39, Cle 35-47
Melo is in a playoff team. Bron is dragging trash at 18.
@@danielabraham5901 They didn't make it the year before he was drafted, he made them a playoff team.
This
As a huge Creighton fan from Omaha Kyle is all we got. It's still kinda dope that his name gets brought up with the greats from the 2003 draft class. I know he's not comparable at all to the likes of James, Wade, Melo, or Bosh, but it's still cool that his name will get dropped by association.
I'd take Bosh's career over Carmelo, but Melo is clearly more talented if we're talking about both at their peaks
Why is this being reuploaded? Will they still draft James Jones and darko over kaman?
cuz it was privated
MIKEDOES i remember watching it like last week
Beginning you mentioned 84, 96, and 03. I’ll add another gem- 1970. Look up that draft. It was a banger. Maybe not the star power, but the pure amount of hall of famers and household nba names was impressive.
I was actually at that T.J Ford game. Never heard a crowd so quiet before or since.
David West was also the leader on the Pacers team with Playoff P.
1960 class is also not shabby considering that there were only 8 teams drafting: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Lenny Wilkens, Tom Sanders, Al Attles, Darrall Imhoff, Lee Shaffer
Weren’t there more rounds then though?
Rookie melo was one of my favorites to watch
West in this draft was like Boozer the year before. Great college career, but got passed up for guys with “more upside”. Two guys at his position picked before him were Mike Sweetney and Nick Collison. Collison I kind of get because he had a great college career and was coming off a strong final four, but Sweetney was undersized and slow as hell. He put up numbers in the Big East, but no way a decent scout looks at the tape of him and West in college and says Sweetney was better.
Hakeem was absolutely one of the best #1 picks ! Gets over looked cause MJ went 3rd in that draft
Mmmm you can't be one of the best number 1s when you weren't even the best in your class.
@@iamtrent2249 Thats a ridiculous thing to say lol , there's very few #1 picks that were better than Hakeem , he's arguably a top 10 player all time , his 2 rings are 2 of the most impressive of all time
@@trevorwinn5012 I don't even think it's arguable that he's top 10, I would say he's a lock! He's probably the best defender of all time! I just don't know about being one of the top number 1 picks If you weren't the best in your class.
Andre Miller, Boris Diaw, Elton Brand, David West, Danny Granger and others...Good listening to this storyline, thanks
The Kat comparison was perfect
Bill was so hard after watching "the last dance" he uploaded the wrong video
He didn’t, it was made private before
@@mike04574 Nope, it was removed, reuploaded and unlisted, hence why it only has 10k views rather than 70k like before.
@@AGH69 alright same thing, when i clicked on it it said this video was privated
I agree with Chad Ford here. If Darko goes later, he's a good player. He couldn't live up to expectations, but he had some solid years later in his career. Incidentally, if the Pistons take Melo, then Kiki takes Darko at 3. He was in love with the Euros back then.
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Carmelo
4. Bosh
5. D. West- third tier all star
6. K. Korver- considering he was east all star and could play for probably any NBA team depending on era as starter
7. J. Howard- had great def potential lole Josh Smith. Could been all star in east as a primary defender third tier scorer.
8. B. Diaw - if he doesn't go to the hawks and goes to playoff team he may been third tier star.
9. K. Hinrich
10. M.williams
Notable players
K. Hinrich- better all around player then mo but really needs elite talent at multiple positions to be truly valuable
L. Ridnour
T. Ford
M. Pietrus
K. Perkins
N. Collison
J. Hayes
W. Greene
Z. Pachulia
J. Jones
T. Outlaw
K. Brogans
S. Blake
C. Kaman
Overall a really talented class
reredraft
GzesKa did you just call bill simmons a retard?
Love how Bosh gets his due from most now
There both high af, no testing during corana season 🔥💨🙏🏼
Why was the other video deleted and this video put up in its place?
I love how he always finds a way to take a jab at Kobe
You noticed that too the hate is real.
It is not a knock on Kobe to say that Wade’s 2009 season is better than any single particular Kobe season. It is just facts. Obviously Kobe had a better career and ranks higher all-time, no one’s denying that.
@@trancebruh3231The question is what’s better:
Kobe 06, or Wade 09?
Both put up an excellent stat line for a team that didn’t have a ton of talent and made the playoffs as a lower seed.
Kirk Hinrich has to be one of the most unappreciated stars of his time. I remember being crushed when the Bulls took Rose instead of Beasley is 2008 because “we have KIRK HINRICH!!!”
I know it was silly thinking back on it now, but not by that much. Kirk was the man in Chicago with Ben Gordon.
Loved hinrich. Had a long career. But we have to stop throwing around the word "star" so loosely. It diminishes other players
@@jstdun he was a star in my 9 year old world 😂
@@BuffdatRatt LMAOOO I understand this
I was thinking him he was good
2. Wade - Pistons (Means detroit wins 4 straight ships) 04, 05, 06 07. Boston beats them in 08 and Joe breaks the team up to try and rebuild. Billups is traded, wallace is traded, sheed, leaves and rip leaves. Wade is the only one left. He plays great in 09 and 10 then him and lebron join up in miami with the player below
3. Carmello - Denver - Same as always except seeing wade win so big early he decided to take a shorter contract and join up with lebron and wade in miami in 2011. The heat 2peat in 11 and 12 and lose to the bulls in 13 and 14.and lebron goes back to cleveland
4. Bosh -Toronto - Same as before except he isn't recruited to go miami. Instead he comes to chicago in 2011 and d gawd doesn't injured and after losing to miami in 11 and 12 d gawd and bosh win the finals in 13, lose to the spurs in 14 (spurs revenge) and win again in 15 and 16 over GSW. The trio of Bosh, Rose and Jimmy is shitting on the league. (Bosh never gets those blood clots as he stayed in a cold weather city in chicago)
@Clutch7 rose never gets hurt
Um, they're not going to Miami in 2010 if Wade wins 4 'chips in Detroit. LeBron's gonna join him in the D or LBJ joins the Knicks in 2010.
Reupload?
The one thing I don't like is they aren't taking into account past drafts, free agents contexts. They're just basically ranking players.
That Karl Anthony Towns and Chris Bosh comparison is phenomenal. KAT needs to go to a team where he can be a primary 3rd or soft 2nd option. That way he can just concentrate of defense and the 3s he loves shooting. Now whether KAT is willing to take that type of role like Bosh was is the harder question to resolve.
Happening right now, and he’s doing better
I don't know about the "Pop couldn't coach Barbosa" take. He coached Manu and Cpt. Jack and let them attain their full potential and loved them both.
Have you stopped at 2003? I would love to see the rest! :)
Mo Williams was a choker. Idk what rose colored glasses you guys have on.
Really solid player who disappeared in the playoffs consistently with Cleveland
You forgot Kaman. Better career than Jones and Milicic.
How tf did u guys disrespect Kaman so bad
and jose
Wade actually joined Kobe on 1st team all nba in 09. I think Bill is focused on positions but they were clearly the top two guards for a stretch after the media stopped pumping Nash up.
Kobe was lucky to go to a great organization. Don't kid yourself. His legacy could have been way different if he stayed in Charlotte and got 1 ring or something lol
i agree with 2. i think dwayne takes the 3rd guard minutes at both spots easy. Bosh doesn't defend well enough to not take carmelo.
You dudes are smoking, Melo is the perfect pick at 2 for the Pistons in an '03 re-draft. Either him or Wade ensures a dynasty imo, but bringing on 'Melo they hold on to Rip, with Tayshaun's personality more suited to sixth-man stopper...
Yeah but then they might not trade for Rasheed
@@chazzmantis2279 Maybe, but they also would get to keep and resign Mehmet Okur and some of the other players they let go
Nah. Melo would’ve killed everything tbh. He’s a great player but the Pistons at the time were a force because of defense. As we all know, Melo refuses to or can’t play defense.
@@THE_BEAR_JEW He would've come in as a rookie on a VETERAN-laden, DEFENSIVE-minded PLAYOFF team. If he wanted ANY type of PT with Larry Brown, he would've shown a great deal of defensive effort frankly. It's delusional (or just plain Melo-hatred) to think otherwise tbh.
@@bOmBAsTiK Nice try but no. You don't get to just call someone a Melo hater because they point out the facts about Melo's defensive game. You're going into theoretical fantasy land, which is actually delusional.
As I said, Melo a great player, but lets be honest with ourselves. He never liked playing defense even when he did have other guys around him like Camby who loved to play defense. It's just how it goes.
Guys who wanna get better on defense try to do so. They don't need anyone to tell them. Melo has known this to be an issue since day one. George Karl mentioned it to him for years, so it's not like Melo just didn't know or lacked defensive minded teammates.
My favorite part of this draft was the lottery...gordon gund literally couldn't see but he knew who he had to pick. Meaning....even a blind man could see lebron was the clear number one
Bill is the best, cool reliving these old memories
mine before watching
2003 draft
Lebron
wade
Carmelo
Bosh
david west
diaw
barbosa
hinrich
james jones
kaman
kyle korver
josh howard
perk
sasha pavlovic
luke ridnour
Why was it reuploaded?
6:11 "unless you're Lebro, or Kobe Bryant, where you land affects your career." What?
My
You can say this about Lebron, but Kobe landed--or bluffed his way into--as perfect a situation as you can ask. The Lakers had won 50 games the season before he started, and just signed 25 year old Shaq. Kobe never had to deal with a roster without another prime Hall of Famer until his 9th season.
Kobe would have done well on the Grizzlies
Imagine if Kobe had gone to Philadelphia? They would have played him like A.I. and either broken his confidence or severely injured him. He just was not ready for that his rookie year.
@@selanryn5849 Hadn't considered that, TTYT. I don't think it would have busted his confidence, but if they'd used him like Iverson, it probably would have encouraged some of the worst shot selection known to man.
Playing for good coaches most of his career, he still had seasons where he shot unconsciously. With Philly he wouldn't have won as much, and we'd probably think of him very differently now. 😉
Sonics are not picking James Jones over Nick Collison. Collison had a solid career impact wise on the court as a role player and off the court as a locker room guy. I think that was the biggest goof up of this redraft because Chad Ford’s reason for even picking Jones was because of leadership. Collison is Mr. Thunder! They even retired his number for being such an impact on and off the court. Also, Thunder fan here.
If you're asking who would do what Chris Bosh did as far as leaving a team where he was the prime Star I guess the best answer would be Kevin Love. He was a monster at Minnesota but join that cavaliers team as a second or sometimes third option. Another player who wanted a title more than he wanted big numbers on a worse team.
Better ReDraft
(? For injury Concerns or character issue)
Bron
Wade?
Bosh/Melo
West
Diaw?
Hinrich?/Williams/Barbosa/Calderon
Howard?/Korver
Kaman
Ford?
Ridnour
Blake
Perkins/Pachuila
Milicic?
Honorable Mentions
Piétrus/Delfino
James Jones/Bonnor/Kapono/Outlaw
Daniels/Dahntay Jones
Collision
Banks/Hayes/Green
Bogans
Why was this uploaded again? Are we missing something?
I thought i was going crazy
They disrespected TJ Ford
We need '04 already!!!
Can you do what If Melo went to the Bulls in free agency that infamous year , does he help D Rose lift a trophy ?
He is one of the best players 3ver
Can we get the Leandro Barbosa highlight reel?
do this from 1990 but the only thing do it by fit for then but u also gotta think about who is to come in the future and figure out what teams would of won the title
Why did they stop with 2003? They should do until 2010.. or are they saving it for future episodes?
I like the take that Bosh had humility, that's as good as any numbers. How good was his locker room presence?
He went to Miami because he wanted to be more famous. He was pretty obsessed with his media exposure.
Luke ridnour and tj Ford dont make the list but james jones and darko do. That's suspect!!!
Can someone explain why Bill didnt do the 2009 draft?
Bosh if he had stayed in Toronto would have been a 25 12 career
Still waiting for 2004, 2005, 2006..... :(
bill russel is not a top 3 player. he's just on cheap ass team. he's basically a more intense dwight howard numbers wise.
Darko Milicic over Chris Kaman and Jose Calderon?
and james jones lol..come on bill..perkins over luke?.
I always thought Reece Gaines from Louisville, long, athletic, could shoot in college, Pitino coached guy, seems like Pitino and Coach K coached players have poor nba careers, just cant make the transition, like the guards from Cincinnati back in the day, but nba today would be interesting for a guy like Steve Logan, Satterfield( he did have a slight run), Demarr Johnson(slight run) but those cats might have different careers. Nick "The Quick" Van Exel
Melo forced his way to New York so what are you talking about, "its funny how the ball bounces" - he chose how the ball bounced = he chose a bad franchise because his wife wanted to be a celebrity in Manhattan and that's why he didn't have a Dirk-style title
Bro why do y’all hate him for going to New York ? 😂
No love for Kaman? He was an all star.... Luke Ridnour no slouch either.
jose calderon..i like perkins james jones but they capping on those 2 at their peaks...and darko lol..trash player empty stats
Redraft so nice they posted it twice
They made it pricate
Private
Do 2011, in my opinion a top 4 draft class of all time.
Why did they reupload this?
I now know
Disagree with the 2nd pick. D Wade would of been a positive but I think we would of benefitted greatly with Melo in the long run.
howso?
@@watchingmedia101 Melo back then was a modern day power forward in my eyes. We could of build around that and been ahead of the curve before everyone. We needed a strong power forward to win a championship that year in Rasheed. Melo could of been that years down the line.
@@chriscee1778 melo was too selfish and offensive minded coming out of college that Detroit team would have kept him on the bench for his lack of defense alone
@@5280AcoGs Larry Brown, of all coaches, had plenty of experience dealing with selfish, offense-only chuckers with cornrows.
Thought we've seen this one.....
We need 2004 already!
They’ve since done it and it was interesting
Ugh using the turquoise pistons logo... why?
Chad trying to justify Darko all these years later. 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes I would rather have all those players. Darko got plenty of chances even after Detroit and topped out at "OK rotation big". Why are you (re)drafting for upside when we've already seen the actual results?
I wonder how good Darko could have been if he played for Pop
Carmelo The Black hole Anthony
Is this a mistake? The Ringer posted this last week.