I would like to make the point that every person with vocal chords is a musician ( untrained) I also love at our service the instrumentalists stop playing while the congregation sings a couple of verses acapella!
I think that the main challenge of modern church music is that the musicians are virtually soloists, so that their musical ability is important. I have found churches where the lead singers are not very good! This problem is less likely to occur with traditional choirs. Having said this I worship happily at a church using modern worship.
I think that one of the main challenges of modern church music is that the musicians are more like soloists so that their style (and musical ability!) becomes important. I have experienced churches in recent times where the lead singers are not that good, which does affect the ‘quality’ of worship. If one or two members of a traditional choir are not that great at singing it is generally not critical. Having said all that I do however worship happily at a church where modern music is played.
Observation: that the non western congregations in our midst have simply adopted the western expression of Worship and songs. So, effectively we have been modelling the a incorrect form. So they may be culturally one group but the worship form and songs are a different culture. makes the distinctive of reaching into a culture as Christians from a culture at odds with the Norms of the Australian church where we journeyed to where individualism rules it seem even in the Musial forms we use. Gospel is only Western ...
I've been in many different churches over my life. Contemporary, Pentecostal, Catholic and mainline etc. I've been in churches with a sole organ playing to a full music team with electric guitars and drums and everything inbetween. I've also had an experience with Church of Christ where they (bizarrely), have a doctrine of no musical instruments. And let me say what I think is the ideal music situation. Currently I'm attending a contemporary church with a full music team. Think about the last supper where the scriptures state that after they broke bread and drank wine, they sung together a song. This would have been either acapella or an instrument or two. Firstly, I don't like a single organ playing as it's strongly associated with Catholic and Orthodox, plus a lot of people find it very dull. Yes there's elderly people who like it, but let's be honest, most don't. I think also a full music team with electric guitars and drums is out of place. It's too distracting. Then more I reflect on it, the more I am convinced it's not the ideal medium for church singing. What I believe is the best is having simple, minimal instruments, say an acoustic guitar or simple keyboards or two guitars. Not a grandiose, old fashioned organ and not a full music team. I believe two simple instruments are the most conducive for congregation participation. To me, both the organ and a full music team are overly prominent in church music. The singing by the congregation should be the most prominent in communal worship and the instruments in the background. A couple of instruments at the most gives church music the musicality without taking precedence. As I say I've been in all types of churches and I don't like the overt focusing on tradition that the organ encourages and the overt modern focusing on fads and trends that a full music team encourages. Both the organ and a full music team are too distracting, making them centre stage with the singing backstage. I honestly believe halfway is the absolute best. A couple of simple instruments making them in the background and making the singing in the foreground. For far too long, it's been the other way around.
First of all you need some training to enjoy organ. But it is beautiful. In general I agree with all your points. But the one that orthodox does not use organ 😅.
Feelings shouldn't come from within, I agree. However - even as an evangelical I read that 1 Timothy 2:8 exhorts us to raise up our hands in worship. This is something that people in Pentecostal churches will do, but very few Anglicans or Presbyterians (for example) will do. Just saying!
I shudder when I see and often hear the music from (emu or Hillsong) i find it repetitive and often irreverent, it feels like a performance . I pray our church goes back to the common praise hymnal. We always got to be a fiddling.
Thank you for discussion on all the topics you cover. It’s all helpful to me
I would like to make the point that every person with vocal chords is a musician ( untrained)
I also love at our service the instrumentalists stop playing while the congregation sings a couple of verses acapella!
I think that the main challenge of modern church music is that the musicians are virtually soloists, so that their musical ability is important. I have found churches where the lead singers are not very good! This problem is less likely to occur with traditional choirs. Having said this I worship happily at a church using modern worship.
I'm reminded by Alanna about not closing my eyes all the time as a song-leader ... it's got to be balanced and not done too much.
I think that one of the main challenges of modern church music is that the musicians are more like soloists so that their style (and musical ability!) becomes important. I have experienced churches in recent times where the lead singers are not that good, which does affect the ‘quality’ of worship. If one or two members of a traditional choir are not that great at singing it is generally not critical. Having said all that I do however worship happily at a church where modern music is played.
Observation: that the non western congregations in our midst have simply adopted the western expression of Worship and songs. So, effectively we have been modelling the a incorrect form. So they may be culturally one group but the worship form and songs are a different culture. makes the distinctive of reaching into a culture as Christians from a culture at odds with the Norms of the Australian church where we journeyed to where individualism rules it seem even in the Musial forms we use. Gospel is only Western ...
I think that one of the main challenges of
24:12 eyes closed-but I still can hear people around singing. But do they sing? That’s a question.
I've been in many different churches over my life. Contemporary, Pentecostal, Catholic and mainline etc. I've been in churches with a sole organ playing to a full music team with electric guitars and drums and everything inbetween. I've also had an experience with Church of Christ where they (bizarrely), have a doctrine of no musical instruments. And let me say what I think is the ideal music situation. Currently I'm attending a contemporary church with a full music team.
Think about the last supper where the scriptures state that after they broke bread and drank wine, they sung together a song. This would have been either acapella or an instrument or two.
Firstly, I don't like a single organ playing as it's strongly associated with Catholic and Orthodox, plus a lot of people find it very dull. Yes there's elderly people who like it, but let's be honest, most don't.
I think also a full music team with electric guitars and drums is out of place. It's too distracting. Then more I reflect on it, the more I am convinced it's not the ideal medium for church singing.
What I believe is the best is having simple, minimal instruments, say an acoustic guitar or simple keyboards or two guitars. Not a grandiose, old fashioned organ and not a full music team. I believe two simple instruments are the most conducive for congregation participation. To me, both the organ and a full music team are overly prominent in church music. The singing by the congregation should be the most prominent in communal worship and the instruments in the background. A couple of instruments at the most gives church music the musicality without taking precedence.
As I say I've been in all types of churches and I don't like the overt focusing on tradition that the organ encourages and the overt modern focusing on fads and trends that a full music team encourages. Both the organ and a full music team are too distracting, making them centre stage with the singing backstage. I honestly believe halfway is the absolute best. A couple of simple instruments making them in the background and making the singing in the foreground. For far too long, it's been the other way around.
First of all you need some training to enjoy organ. But it is beautiful. In general I agree with all your points. But the one that orthodox does not use organ 😅.
@@serhii-ratz Sorry, what do you use? Electric guitar? 🎸 😬
Feelings shouldn't come from within, I agree.
However - even as an evangelical I read that 1 Timothy 2:8 exhorts us to raise up our hands in worship. This is something that people in Pentecostal churches will do, but very few Anglicans or Presbyterians (for example) will do. Just saying!
Though 1 Tim 2:8 is about prayer and not singing isn’t it?
If worship is about the whole of life, then it certainly covers singing by logical implication
@@winneryeahmate who sings and doesn’t pray at the same time?
To me it is both/and - not either/or
If Church music & liturgy is not at least 500yrs old, it is ALWAYS suspect - often it is non-Apostolic.
Oh Mary, Mary. Is that a serious comment? The music needs to be at least 500 yrs old. Come on now. Let's be sensible.
I shudder when I see and often hear the music from (emu or Hillsong) i find it repetitive and often irreverent, it feels like a performance . I pray our church goes back to the common praise hymnal. We always got to be a fiddling.