The reason leasing is a craze is because the operating companies "PAY LESS TAX % TO LEASE", instead of the "operating company" owning the units outright. The owners of the "Op Co" (operating company) [CN example] have "Ho Co's" (holding companies) under the same owners. So you have an "Op Co" (on the left hand) and a "Ho Co"(on the right hand) of the same body, and the "Op Co" leases off their sister company "Ho Co" and the tax write off for leasing is 100%. Its a "tax scheme" to pay less tax for what's allowed on the maximum tax write off with the lowest percent of pay-out. Me(Op Co)[left hand] lease engines off my (Ho Co)[right hand] for the maximum legal interest(usury) and my (Op Co) gets the write off for the lease and my (Ho Co) gets the maximum profit from the (Ho Co) because of the interest rate my Op Co paid my Ho Co, and both (Op and Ho) companies end up paying the lowest percentage of tax rate - and I own both companies. Oh and my (Op Co) has a small bank account and my (Ho Co) has a small bank account too because the (Ho Co) is taking the stack of profitable $$$ and investing it, making compound interest, paid by You the "middle class" taxpayer. And to top it all off, the (Op Co) is an employee of the (Ho Co) and the (Op Co) gets paid in "dividends" instead of drawing "wages" or "paid on invoices submitted" which is the lowest tax rate to pay out when you get paid for services rendered. The tax scheme "corporations" have going is brilliant.
Lots of industries operate this way now. I would add that in addition to the tax benefits, leasing frees up valuable capital to grow the business (fund M&A activities, enter a new line of business, develop a new market, etc.). Return on invested capital drives shareholder value. If there’s another cost-effective way to get locomotive, car, technology - you name it - assets, a company isn’t going to burn its precious capital there. These days locomotives are commodities. Capital is best invested in ways that allow a company to grow ideally in ways that differentiate itself in the marketplace. Locomotives are not a differentiator, at least not between comparable railroad companies. If rates stay competitive, I imagine we will see fewer companies in the future with their own “ho cos” with owned equipment rosters as these companies see greater opportunity to funnel cash elsewhere.
@@1_lens_view Clearly there is economic value to leasing versus owning, or it would not be so prevalent. What gets me is the railroads still own hundreds of thousands of tons of idle locomotives, slowly rusting away in yards, while they're leasing locos. I don't see the economic value of letting their owned locos sit idle. In 2011 I went past a BNSF yard in southern California with track after track of locos. In 2015 I saw a similar yard of UP's in northern California (I believe that some of their SD90MACs were housed there for a time), and there's that one long (3 mile?) stretch of single track out in Utah or New Mexico of UP locos just rusting away. I mean, if they aren't going to use them, they could at least sell them for scrap for all that steel to be re-used for something useful.
The government probably got involved when the rail industry was on the down turn and the government came up with these 'write offs' to help save the rail industry. It always seems the government ideas only make the company owners rich, so they can pocket more money, enjoy a lucrative life style, while the average tax payer gets his pockets robbed! It's a very long sick story that gets worse and worse when corrupt people get involved for their own benefit. How much more can our country's economy endure before our country is BANKRUPT??
I agree a standard cab C40-8 is a great looking machine. I remember the first time I saw one (well, it was a B40-8) was in 1991 in Mesa, was a Cotton Belt unit leading a Tucson-Phoenix train on SP. It looked so angular compared with past GE units (the -7 line).
@@silicon212 They vaguely resembled dragsters, with the flared rear vents and angular noses. I think they were the most powerful units on the rails at the time at 4000hp each.
I used to not like GE when I was younger. But as I got older, learned about the history of the Dash 8s and Dash 9s I really started to take notice. Sadly nowadays I only see GEVOs and SD70MACs/SD70ACes anymore with a token SD40-2 or SD45-2 in local or yard service. Never see the Dash 8s anymore and it makes me sad. This is especially poignant as I have been researching Conrail and CSX as I build custom HO scale models. I really came to love the C40-8W on Conrail and CSX as it was THE most common unit on both in the early/mid 90s when I was a kid and enthralled with railroading and railfanning with my grandfather. I saw many C40-8Ws for years and while they didn't make me smile and cheer as much as any EMD (espcially GP38s), they still were Conrail. They still have a place in my heart from a very impressionable period of my youth. Great job as always AC. I really like this in-depth reporting style as I learned a few things and it is both informative, interesting, and well paced to keep attention.
@John Stephenson Huh. Well you are the first person I have talked to who liked the standard cab Dash 8s and 9s. On a related note, there is now a company making standard cab Dash 9s in HO scale if you are into model railroading. Scaletrains.com makes a standard cab "top hat" NS Dash 9 and I know Atlas makes the Dash 8 versions. I own multiple Atlas Dash 8 standard cabs painted in various Conrail paint schemes, even have another B40-8 on order currently. I like them, not as much as the wide cabs, but still do. What makes you like the standard cab especially?
I love how you're one of the few railfans who documents changes in the industry regarding locomotive rosters and technology on UA-cam! Sometimes, even Trains magazine doesn't cover everything!
Yep, gotta love the Dash8's. Last Dash8 I seen from CSX was early 2019 -then three years later my first one from CSX in late May 2022, NS was in late April 2019, UP Dash8 late 2015 -then early March 2019. I seen a few NS Ex-BNSF SD75M's all 2017.
Looks like you spent a lot of time researching to do do this video. Great job. We don't always get to know what goes on with locomotives after the leave the former owners ownership. Excellent video AC. Bravo!!!!!
I heard Canadian Pacific bought 30 SD9043MAC's from UP to fill out their order with Progress Rail in the SD70ACU rebuild program. Those would have looked nice running the Canadian rails in the UP scheme, even for a short time. They had some UP SD40-2's for awhile still in UP paint, but lettered for CP Rail. Nice palate of colours in those trains. Very good and informative video AC. CN is returning many of the leased units as they get the new 3000 series locomotives on line.
CP bought 2 units from UP. They had 28 SD90MACs left over after 30 were sent in for the first batch of SD70ACU rebuilds. Once they decided to do another batch, they bought a couple UP SD90s to give them another 30.
Very interesting eposide. But tell me if I am wrong. I remember reading some decades ago, the reason that GE became the number one locomotive builder, is because the parent owner of EMD, GM, shot themselves in both feet and both heads. They would not let EMD test, lease out locomtives for testing, so that the locomotive could be tested to find out the quirks in them and correct them, so that they would be railroad ready. So, as a result, the locomotives were under surtiny and the railroads didn't like them, then as GM went into bankruptcy and lost billions, the EMD division had to be sold at any cost, and after a couple of sale?, they wond up with the present owners that are trying to rebuild the bussiness from the ground up. I still think the EMD locomotives are the best, despite what has happened, and after listening to different locomotive maintenance people that work on locomtives, the GE's are still garbage cans.
Interesting theory, I don't have any evidence to support or deny anything you wrote.. I like EMDs better also, that's the best reply that I can give you.
Another excellent video, never going to be a GE fan, it's nice to see NS move them along to make room for more interesting stuff... I notice NYS&W ( My local short line ) has mixed in some leased units and even painted a couple. Wonder why they aren't more interested in those sd60's NS was letting go.
Love these style of videos. Have never ran any GE unit on my N scale empire... Just EMD Jeeps and F's. Also RS-3's. I don't remember if you ever did a video on RS 3 through 5's. It's cool to see a string of RS 3/5's chugging along around Steam Town , although a couple of Dash 8's could replace all of them.
Thanks Jim.. No, I haven't focused on the RS3's yet but I'm fortunate enough to see them on the (NS) mainline.. And yes, 1 Dash-8 could put them all out to pasture, or at least close.
Pan Am Got 20 C40-8's in December of 2016, 12 B40-8's , 4 C40-8's in July of 2017, 1 B40-8 Left in Oct 2017 and 1 B40-8 Arrived in Mar 2018 6 C40-8W's in April of 2018 & 3 B40-8's in November of 2018 If more are to show up who knows, i have not heard any rumors yet.
I live near LTEX's original yard. Nifty to hear them mentioned. Spotted an LTEX switcher in a CBC documentary on the aftermath of the Lac Megantic disaster.
Woah woah woah! Did you say the wide cab was stylish?! I usually agree with you, but you're off your nut there lol. High hoods and Spartan cabs forever!!
and to think, when I started photoing locos, some of my issues were how to figure out the difference between a late U25B and an early U28B. and to think, when i started out, GM had 80% of the new loco market. but then, there was no internet to inform as you do, thx.
As for the Pan Am units, they aren't getting anymore, they got some of the worst ones from GE for dirt cheap, and the idea was they were going to retire all the EMD's. Well anyway they have found it cheaper to hold into the EMD's, and have been installing PTC and repainting many of them, and are sending some out for rebuild and then selling them to GATX who leases them back.
So a overseas company is working on converting the dash 8 to AC traction, wasn’t that the issue to begin with? As they can’t be converted to AC traction and is why NS in particular is getting rid of theirs or is that not the whole story. But I’ve got to say, it’s sad to see them going away, wasn’t a big fan of them but they are the last virtually untouched relic from Conrail, guess I’m sad also for the standard cab dash-8s NS had as well they were the last GEs to carry SOU reporting marks, can’t recall ever seeing them personally but given they looked virtually identical to the standard cab dash 9s I’m sure I saw them before. Just hope someone remembers to save a dash 8 for preservation before they all get scrapped or shipped to Mexico or Brazil
Don't know anything about AC traction in Dash 8s other than what I mentioned.. Sad to see them leave the Class 1s but they're finding new homes both stateside and abroad.
Badass my friend hey thank you for teaching me about leiser's I've seen them but I didn't know much about leasing locomotive companies and thank you for showing the specs of different locomotives I really enjoyed this video I love it when you talk about locomotives you're so knowledgeable thank you for being such a great teacher peace out AC have a great day
Trains21 excellent job is always my friend I love when you go off on these different tangents that explained it these little niches of railroading that no one ever talks about thanks AC peace out into the world have a great day
Very informative. With all the leasing and/or rebuilding of GE and EMD units, there must be a negative impact on the sale of new units and the subsequent lost opportunity for more advanced technical development.
it's funny, in Australia we have diesels still from the early 50's, the Oldest is a Diesel called GM10, which had entered service June 1952 and still is on mainline active service almost 70 years later, I honestly think it's funny when americans retire modern power because it's too old, while Australia still has 70 year old loco's running with no major plans to retire them soon
Australian National Productions if u think that’s funny, CSX retired power a couple years ago that’s less than 15 years old. Our oldest power would be SD40-2s, GP40-2s and GP38-2s.
I'm just really getting interested in modern railroading, and so far these videos have been super helpful, but is there some kind of roster or list of all the modern diesel types? Its kinda hard to keep track of them all, to me at least, and the strange designations don't help.
Understood.. Start searching online, there are many references but it may take a little digging to find specifically what you're looking if you have a particular preference.. Thanks for watching.
I don't want to be a nuisance but: Are there locomotives still in use with dc generators? Or any rebuilt with the generator replaced by an alternator and rectifiers? Thanks, I'll try doing my own research. Trains are still the means of escape.
No worries, but I'm not sure if I understand your question.. If your're asking are there still locos in America with DC traction the answer is yes.. Most of them have DC motors (when I say most I mean new locos and the old school EMDs, GEs and even some Alco).
@@Trains21 I know that traction motors are only now becoming ac types but I'm betting that generators have been alternators for a while. Only fancy new technology would allow inverters supplying the variable frequency needed for good ac traction drive, but alternators, instead of dc generators, would have looked attractive back when high-power solid-state rectifiers first became available.
@@williamkinghorn6117 All of the EMD 40 series and beyond, with the exception of early GP/SD38s, all have AC main generators (or alternators) to provide power to the traction motors. So at least in EMD's case, everything (again with the exception noted above) is alternator powered from 1965 on. IIRC the DC generator is the limiting factor (2500HP) on the 645C/D rebuilds of old 567 engines.
@@silicon212 Thanks! I found EMD E9 right here in town, fixed-up and used to tow "The Polar Express" (steam) back home each Xmas. It has the original dc generators and it runs. It looks brand new. www.google.com/maps/place/Friends+of+the+261/@44.9952073,-93.2475618,554m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x52b333909377bbbd:0x939fc9842f7aee07!2sMinneapolis,+MN!3b1!8m2!3d44.977753!4d-93.2650108!3m4!1s0x52b32d9e86842f65:0x4435b1c0609a7f51!8m2!3d44.9952036!4d-93.2453737 Google Maps seem to be the only presence they have on the web.
Thanks. It's a fine video from an ever-fascinating field. I'd really appreciate the name of a trade-journal or other source of technical details from which an electrical engineer, from another field, could learn about the inverters, motors, etc of the new ac traction systems. Thanks again.
Great video! The Providence & Worcester isn't actually the P&W anymore it was swallowed up by Genesee & Wyoming conglomerate and from what I hear the entire G&W is about to be bought out.
@@Trains21 no problem man...figured you probably did but just in case some viewers didn't. G&W is a customer of ours so when I go to their facilities I get all the latest gossip and news.
@Mass Coastal Railfanning Productions yeah here where I live I barely see any old school P&W painted engines anymore. Btw nice thumbnail. You a New Haven fan too?
Would be nice if CSX would've kept the ACes and worked out the kinks with them. But the D8s are decent engines. I think their more reliable than the D9s.
@@thedwaynerailfans ever wonder why the D8's, even in their glory days, would barley ever be blowing turbos but the D9's would? That should be a clear sign of which is more reliable
@@thedwaynerailfans I strongly Disagree, here are my reasons. 1. Old DC Dash 9’s are being rebuilt, which I’ve already seen a handful of those burnt up already! 2. They took old, unreliable, and purged SD90macs, rebuilt those and somewhat recently sold half of them even after being converted to ACU’s. (Waste IMO) 3.They ended the ACC only after 40 roughly because they felt it wasn’t as successful and something with Cat being their partnership. Now I understand they tried with the super old like 80’s Dash 8’s but not the more recent 94 built Dash 8’s which were very successful and lasted all the way till 2018 without any upgrades and poorly maintained. I conclude that the D8-40CW both CSX & NS if done properly with SERIOUS intentions to actually make a good locomotive and not some halfass project like the 8.5’s then they would most certainly be worth it. These are just my opinions and I respect yours. At the end of the day if there’s no Conrail heritage then there’s no me as I grown up with Conrail locomotives.
@@thebluehero2219 that is valid, bht its way harder to convert an older model such as a dash 8 to AC traction because of how they were build. its doable, but not worth it. ts easier to convert a dash 9 cuz their internals are already easy to work with. NS C6Ms are overall successful, they just overheat easier cuz of only one cooling fan vs 2, which was standard for GE. im not sure hpw many the GEVOs have, but i wanna say 2 NS sold over 40 ACUs because theyre bad in performance. they were built in altoona, and altoona is known to take the cheap way out of rebuilds, thus why theyre crap. ACUs in general is a bad idea and bad in performance. CPs are better maintained cuz EMD/PRLX actually did them themselves and knew what to do. NS just speed ran it to save money. only 4 of their ACUs were actually done by EMD/PRLX iirc
In that case, we should just get rid of all cars, trucks, and planes, since they pollute the air way more than any diesel train ever could in a single trip.
I don't really think our ancestors need to breathe any air at the current moment; most having been dead now for quite some time. If you mean 'descendants' .. then possibly a point here but keep in mind that even tier-0 units pollute much, much less than the truck traffic they can replace. I get what you are saying, but railroading is inherently one of the 'greenest' if not the 'greenest' mode of logistics available. On average, a train can move one ton of freight, on one gallon of diesel, a distance of 436 miles or more.
![[GL][T-183] ENHANCED EMDs: SD60E Explained + GE Dash 8.5, SD40E, GP59E, MP15E & Slugs | Trains 21](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VBP4btri3XA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[GL][T-183] ENHANCED EMDs: SD60E Explained + GE Dash 8.5, SD40E, GP59E, MP15E & Slugs | Trains 21](/img/tr.png)
![[GL][T-190] Canada's Kooky Locomotives: Comfort Cabs, Draper Tapers, Doghouses (CN, CP, BCOL, QNSL)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q4Zm37a0NlA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[PSR][T-182] Survivors of the Super Mergers of the 1990s: Union Pacific & BNSF | Trains 21](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ziRzH8sDmAc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TN][T-169] Heritage Unit Fails and Trains in Technicolor | Trains 21](/img/n.gif)
The reason leasing is a craze is because the operating companies "PAY LESS TAX % TO LEASE", instead of the "operating company" owning the units outright. The owners of the "Op Co" (operating company) [CN example] have "Ho Co's" (holding companies) under the same owners. So you have an "Op Co" (on the left hand) and a "Ho Co"(on the right hand) of the same body, and the "Op Co" leases off their sister company "Ho Co" and the tax write off for leasing is 100%. Its a "tax scheme" to pay less tax for what's allowed on the maximum tax write off with the lowest percent of pay-out. Me(Op Co)[left hand] lease engines off my (Ho Co)[right hand] for the maximum legal interest(usury) and my (Op Co) gets the write off for the lease and my (Ho Co) gets the maximum profit from the (Ho Co) because of the interest rate my Op Co paid my Ho Co, and both (Op and Ho) companies end up paying the lowest percentage of tax rate - and I own both companies. Oh and my (Op Co) has a small bank account and my (Ho Co) has a small bank account too because the (Ho Co) is taking the stack of profitable $$$ and investing it, making compound interest, paid by You the "middle class" taxpayer. And to top it all off, the (Op Co) is an employee of the (Ho Co) and the (Op Co) gets paid in "dividends" instead of drawing "wages" or "paid on invoices submitted" which is the lowest tax rate to pay out when you get paid for services rendered. The tax scheme "corporations" have going is brilliant.
Thanks for that awesome breakdown.
The airlines do this as well.
Lots of industries operate this way now. I would add that in addition to the tax benefits, leasing frees up valuable capital to grow the business (fund M&A activities, enter a new line of business, develop a new market, etc.). Return on invested capital drives shareholder value. If there’s another cost-effective way to get locomotive, car, technology - you name it - assets, a company isn’t going to burn its precious capital there.
These days locomotives are commodities. Capital is best invested in ways that allow a company to grow ideally in ways that differentiate itself in the marketplace. Locomotives are not a differentiator, at least not between comparable railroad companies. If rates stay competitive, I imagine we will see fewer companies in the future with their own “ho cos” with owned equipment rosters as these companies see greater opportunity to funnel cash elsewhere.
@@1_lens_view Clearly there is economic value to leasing versus owning, or it would not be so prevalent. What gets me is the railroads still own hundreds of thousands of tons of idle locomotives, slowly rusting away in yards, while they're leasing locos. I don't see the economic value of letting their owned locos sit idle.
In 2011 I went past a BNSF yard in southern California with track after track of locos. In 2015 I saw a similar yard of UP's in northern California (I believe that some of their SD90MACs were housed there for a time), and there's that one long (3 mile?) stretch of single track out in Utah or New Mexico of UP locos just rusting away. I mean, if they aren't going to use them, they could at least sell them for scrap for all that steel to be re-used for something useful.
The government probably got involved when the rail industry was on the down turn and the government came up with these 'write offs' to help save the rail industry. It always seems the government ideas only make the company owners rich, so they can pocket more money, enjoy a lucrative life style, while the average tax payer gets his pockets robbed! It's a very long sick story that gets worse and worse when corrupt people get involved for their own benefit. How much more can our country's economy endure before our country is BANKRUPT??
Those C40-8s with standard cabs were some of the best looking locomotives I've seen, and the best looking GE engines ever. Just subscribed.
I agree a standard cab C40-8 is a great looking machine. I remember the first time I saw one (well, it was a B40-8) was in 1991 in Mesa, was a Cotton Belt unit leading a Tucson-Phoenix train on SP. It looked so angular compared with past GE units (the -7 line).
@@silicon212 They vaguely resembled dragsters, with the flared rear vents and angular noses. I think they were the most powerful units on the rails at the time at 4000hp each.
CSX in 2019: No get rid of these junk holes
CSX in 2021: *You know what I changed my mind bring them back*
I used to not like GE when I was younger. But as I got older, learned about the history of the Dash 8s and Dash 9s I really started to take notice. Sadly nowadays I only see GEVOs and SD70MACs/SD70ACes anymore with a token SD40-2 or SD45-2 in local or yard service. Never see the Dash 8s anymore and it makes me sad. This is especially poignant as I have been researching Conrail and CSX as I build custom HO scale models. I really came to love the C40-8W on Conrail and CSX as it was THE most common unit on both in the early/mid 90s when I was a kid and enthralled with railroading and railfanning with my grandfather. I saw many C40-8Ws for years and while they didn't make me smile and cheer as much as any EMD (espcially GP38s), they still were Conrail. They still have a place in my heart from a very impressionable period of my youth. Great job as always AC. I really like this in-depth reporting style as I learned a few things and it is both informative, interesting, and well paced to keep attention.
@John Stephenson I did (still do) like the SD40-2 series so I guess I liked the most popular locomotives of the 1980s...
@John Stephenson Huh. Well you are the first person I have talked to who liked the standard cab Dash 8s and 9s. On a related note, there is now a company making standard cab Dash 9s in HO scale if you are into model railroading. Scaletrains.com makes a standard cab "top hat" NS Dash 9 and I know Atlas makes the Dash 8 versions. I own multiple Atlas Dash 8 standard cabs painted in various Conrail paint schemes, even have another B40-8 on order currently. I like them, not as much as the wide cabs, but still do. What makes you like the standard cab especially?
God there's just something about a Dash 8 with a standard cab, my favorite Train ever.
I love how you're one of the few railfans who documents changes in the industry regarding locomotive rosters and technology on UA-cam! Sometimes, even Trains magazine doesn't cover everything!
Thanks Man.. I'm glad you're watching and enjoying!
CSX C40-8W 7921 has LMS lettering. I know that. It's the London Midland and Scottish Railway.
That old CF (Consolidated Freightways) pup trailer sitting in most of those shots is pretty cool.
Yep, gotta love the Dash8's. Last Dash8 I seen from CSX was early 2019 -then three years later my first one from CSX in late May 2022, NS was in late April 2019, UP Dash8 late 2015 -then early March 2019. I seen a few NS Ex-BNSF SD75M's all 2017.
I do like the occasional C40-8W on CSX, especially in their YN2 paint, I'm gonna miss them when they're gone
Dylan Shramko don't worry, they'l be there got awhile. CSX is to stupid to get anything new.
@@ReadingAreaRailfan not true at all. its easier and cheaper to use stored power than to buy new, especially if the old ones still got life left
The quality level of this content is through the roof
Good job
Thanks Mike, much appreciated.
Looks like you spent a lot of time researching to do do this video. Great job. We don't always get to know what goes on with locomotives after the leave the former owners ownership. Excellent video AC. Bravo!!!!!
Thanks Hans.. Yes, it took a couple of days to finish this one, but it was well worth it.. Thanks for watching.
Great video. As someone who lives in Washington DC, NS does not operate any trains. As least I don’t think they do.
Conrail had a lot of these c40-8ws
Yes they did.
Are they any still in service
These units were awesome I miss ones found on ns a lot and Union Pacific
Understood
I heard Canadian Pacific bought 30 SD9043MAC's from UP to fill out their order with Progress Rail in the SD70ACU rebuild program. Those would have looked nice running the Canadian rails in the UP scheme, even for a short time. They had some UP SD40-2's for awhile still in UP paint, but lettered for CP Rail. Nice palate of colours in those trains. Very good and informative video AC. CN is returning many of the leased units as they get the new 3000 series locomotives on line.
CP bought 2 units from UP. They had 28 SD90MACs left over after 30 were sent in for the first batch of SD70ACU rebuilds. Once they decided to do another batch, they bought a couple UP SD90s to give them another 30.
Good Video. Good to hear that the DASH 8 series shall live on!
Nice video. I'm pretty sure CN has the GECX ET44s on a permanent lease. They will be painted into the CN website eventually.
Cool.. I didn't know that.. Thanks for sharing.
2021 arrives: CSX is like you want dash 8s ok hold my beer.
Norfolk Southern does not operate in the District Of Columbia anymore, they stopped operating into DC in 2011 with loss of industry.
Very interesting eposide. But tell me if I am wrong. I remember reading some decades ago, the reason that GE became the number one locomotive builder, is because the parent owner of EMD, GM, shot themselves in both feet and both heads. They would not let EMD test, lease out locomtives for testing, so that the locomotive could be tested to find out the quirks in them and correct them, so that they would be railroad ready. So, as a result, the locomotives were under surtiny and the railroads didn't like them, then as GM went into bankruptcy and lost billions, the EMD division had to be sold at any cost, and after a couple of sale?, they wond up with the present owners that are trying to rebuild the bussiness from the ground up. I still think the EMD locomotives are the best, despite what has happened, and after listening to different locomotive maintenance people that work on locomtives, the GE's are still garbage cans.
Interesting theory, I don't have any evidence to support or deny anything you wrote.. I like EMDs better also, that's the best reply that I can give you.
Another excellent video, never going to be a GE fan, it's nice to see NS move them along to make room for more interesting stuff... I notice NYS&W ( My local short line ) has mixed in some leased units and even painted a couple. Wonder why they aren't more interested in those sd60's NS was letting go.
Thanks Commander, I wondered the same thing about Susie Q.
Love these style of videos. Have never ran any GE unit on my N scale empire... Just EMD Jeeps and F's. Also RS-3's. I don't remember if you ever did a video on RS 3 through 5's. It's cool to see a string of RS 3/5's chugging along around Steam Town , although a couple of Dash 8's could replace all of them.
Thanks Jim.. No, I haven't focused on the RS3's yet but I'm fortunate enough to see them on the (NS) mainline.. And yes, 1 Dash-8 could put them all out to pasture, or at least close.
Pan Am Got
20 C40-8's in December of 2016,
12 B40-8's , 4 C40-8's in July of 2017,
1 B40-8 Left in Oct 2017 and 1 B40-8 Arrived in Mar 2018
6 C40-8W's in April of 2018
& 3 B40-8's in November of 2018
If more are to show up who knows, i have not heard any rumors yet.
Thanks for the info.
@Mass Coastal Railfanning Productions I know i live on pan am in montague and know which ones get painted
@Mass Coastal Railfanning Productions where do you live
@Mass Coastal Railfanning Productions ah cool
Another High Quality Video, AC. 👍
FEC 104-107 are currently sitting in Decatur, Illinois. They’ve been there for almost a year and a half now.
Really?? Just sitting there??
Trains21 Yep. Not sure what their plans are with them.
I live near LTEX's original yard. Nifty to hear them mentioned. Spotted an LTEX switcher in a CBC documentary on the aftermath of the Lac Megantic disaster.
I remember last year i caught a gecx unit on a south bound ns train with the c&o sticker still on the nose on that dash 8
Yep, I think more than one sticker unit ended up being sold into GE's lease fleet.
@@Trains21 oh wow i didnt know that
I wish CSX kept the C40-8s I loved their horns and bells
you can always come to pan am to see them
@@Brian4449 I wish I could but I don't live in MA
@@NotMattyDYT where are you from
Damn A.C. this episode was so good you almost converted me into a GE fan, lol
Thanks John, that's funny!
Woah woah woah! Did you say the wide cab was stylish?! I usually agree with you, but you're off your nut there lol. High hoods and Spartan cabs forever!!
and to think, when I started photoing locos, some of my issues were how to figure out the difference between a late U25B and an early U28B.
and to think, when i started out, GM had 80% of the new loco market.
but then, there was no internet to inform as you do, thx.
You're welcome Jeffrey, thanks for watching.
As for the Pan Am units, they aren't getting anymore, they got some of the worst ones from GE for dirt cheap, and the idea was they were going to retire all the EMD's. Well anyway they have found it cheaper to hold into the EMD's, and have been installing PTC and repainting many of them, and are sending some out for rebuild and then selling them to GATX who leases them back.
Interesting. Thanks for all of that info. I didn't know that.
Great video as usual, I was calmly watching and 8:33 I lost it. I laughed for a good bit. Keep on keep'n up.
Great video, even though I’ve never been a fan of anything GE! Very informative, nonetheless.
Thanks J.M.
Peruvian railroad: FCCA bought some C39-8's and now is starting to buy a few C40-8W's.
So a overseas company is working on converting the dash 8 to AC traction, wasn’t that the issue to begin with? As they can’t be converted to AC traction and is why NS in particular is getting rid of theirs or is that not the whole story. But I’ve got to say, it’s sad to see them going away, wasn’t a big fan of them but they are the last virtually untouched relic from Conrail, guess I’m sad also for the standard cab dash-8s NS had as well they were the last GEs to carry SOU reporting marks, can’t recall ever seeing them personally but given they looked virtually identical to the standard cab dash 9s I’m sure I saw them before. Just hope someone remembers to save a dash 8 for preservation before they all get scrapped or shipped to Mexico or Brazil
Don't know anything about AC traction in Dash 8s other than what I mentioned.. Sad to see them leave the Class 1s but they're finding new homes both stateside and abroad.
Badass my friend hey thank you for teaching me about leiser's I've seen them but I didn't know much about leasing locomotive companies and thank you for showing the specs of different locomotives I really enjoyed this video I love it when you talk about locomotives you're so knowledgeable thank you for being such a great teacher peace out AC have a great day
Thanks Austin!
Trains21 excellent job is always my friend I love when you go off on these different tangents that explained it these little niches of railroading that no one ever talks about thanks AC peace out into the world have a great day
Very informative. With all the leasing and/or rebuilding of GE and EMD units, there must be a negative impact on the sale of new units and the subsequent lost opportunity for more advanced technical development.
Don't know about tech development but, yes, it has severely bitten into new locomotive sales.
it's funny, in Australia we have diesels still from the early 50's, the Oldest is a Diesel called GM10, which had entered service June 1952 and still is on mainline active service almost 70 years later, I honestly think it's funny when americans retire modern power because it's too old, while Australia still has 70 year old loco's running with no major plans to retire them soon
Australian National Productions if u think that’s funny, CSX retired power a couple years ago that’s less than 15 years old. Our oldest power would be SD40-2s, GP40-2s and GP38-2s.
@@NOVARailandWeatherEnthusiast wait what? younger than 15, that make these reitrements look old
Australian National Productions yup. SD70aces were built in 2004-2005 and CSX retired them in 2017.
You can find stuff like that in america still, you've just gotta look for it.
Really appreciate your information full videos... very interesting. Cheers!
Thanks Philippe, much appreciate you watching. Cheers!
15:32 😭😭😭 not the C40-8 engines!! Those are my favorite engines!!!! (Other then the B40-8)
CP boarded up the windows on the exNS high hoods and made them into B units more or less.
Yep, saw em' in person. Thanks.
Another NOTCH 8 production !!
Thanks Marine!
Thanks for all that, Very Informative.
Thanks Steve.
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸
Hello from Kansas as well!
Awesome video and narration
Thanks Railhead.
I'm just really getting interested in modern railroading, and so far these videos have been super helpful, but is there some kind of roster or list of all the modern diesel types? Its kinda hard to keep track of them all, to me at least, and the strange designations don't help.
Understood.. Start searching online, there are many references but it may take a little digging to find specifically what you're looking if you have a particular preference.. Thanks for watching.
@@Trains21 8
This is a great video AC
Thank you Ed, I'm glad that you enjoyed it.
Trains21, always interesting.
Thanks Calvin.
I don't want to be a nuisance but: Are there locomotives still in use with dc generators? Or any rebuilt with the generator replaced by an alternator and rectifiers? Thanks, I'll try doing my own research. Trains are still the means of escape.
No worries, but I'm not sure if I understand your question.. If your're asking are there still locos in America with DC traction the answer is yes.. Most of them have DC motors (when I say most I mean new locos and the old school EMDs, GEs and even some Alco).
@@Trains21 I know that traction motors are only now becoming ac types but I'm betting that generators have been alternators for a while. Only fancy new technology would allow inverters supplying the variable frequency needed for good ac traction drive, but alternators, instead of dc generators, would have looked attractive back when high-power solid-state rectifiers first became available.
@@williamkinghorn6117 All of the EMD 40 series and beyond, with the exception of early GP/SD38s, all have AC main generators (or alternators) to provide power to the traction motors. So at least in EMD's case, everything (again with the exception noted above) is alternator powered from 1965 on. IIRC the DC generator is the limiting factor (2500HP) on the 645C/D rebuilds of old 567 engines.
@@silicon212 Thanks! I found EMD E9 right here in town, fixed-up and used to tow "The Polar Express" (steam) back home each Xmas. It has the original dc generators and it runs. It looks brand new. www.google.com/maps/place/Friends+of+the+261/@44.9952073,-93.2475618,554m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x52b333909377bbbd:0x939fc9842f7aee07!2sMinneapolis,+MN!3b1!8m2!3d44.977753!4d-93.2650108!3m4!1s0x52b32d9e86842f65:0x4435b1c0609a7f51!8m2!3d44.9952036!4d-93.2453737
Google Maps seem to be the only presence they have on the web.
Ok!
Wow great video, great information.
Thanks Spacelander.
hey i liked the video awesome share fam i wanted to show you some love i support your channel man
Thanks Erik!
7:32 7:33 Leasing companies take their risk.
Very informative thnx👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
No problem Brat.. Thanks for watching.
15:16 15:17 Larry's locomotive retail group
Super, interesting!
Thanks Daniel!
Good Job
Thanks SC.
13:01 Also an ET forti for aselocomotiv
10:15 Ornge Paramedic Services (Ambulance)
Thanks. It's a fine video from an ever-fascinating field. I'd really appreciate the name of a trade-journal or other source of technical details from which an electrical engineer, from another field, could learn about the inverters, motors, etc of the new ac traction systems. Thanks again.
Thanks for watching.. As for information, I get mine from a variety of sources (most of which are online) but don't know of a single source.
Super video 😉✌
Thanks Walter!
12:39 Fast forward...
12:40
Nice video! I can't talk that fast!
Neither can I!
Cool
Is buying a used locomotive like buying a used car, a crapshoot?
Thanks for yet another informative video AC
No problem Vincent.. Thank you for watching.
9:43 9:44 Kankakee, IL to Bellview, OH
9:42
Bellevue, sir
Great video! The Providence & Worcester isn't actually the P&W anymore it was swallowed up by Genesee & Wyoming conglomerate and from what I hear the entire G&W is about to be bought out.
Thanks Man.. I know about the P&W/G&W buyouts.
@@Trains21 no problem man...figured you probably did but just in case some viewers didn't. G&W is a customer of ours so when I go to their facilities I get all the latest gossip and news.
@@TruthBlitzMedia Nice.. Keep me filled in on any news if you don't mind.
@@Trains21 sure thing!
@Mass Coastal Railfanning Productions yeah here where I live I barely see any old school P&W painted engines anymore. Btw nice thumbnail. You a New Haven fan too?
Would be nice if CSX would've kept the ACes and worked out the kinks with them. But the D8s are decent engines. I think their more reliable than the D9s.
they are not whatsoever. CSX is only using them cuz its the only ones they got rn in the surge fleet.
@@thedwaynerailfans ever wonder why the D8's, even in their glory days, would barley ever be blowing turbos but the D9's would? That should be a clear sign of which is more reliable
@@ReadingAreaRailfan what are you on about
the d8s blew turbos way more than the d9s
@@thedwaynerailfans proof plz
Very nice! 7:35 I live 30 min from Mobile!
Thanks Noah!
6:17 6:18
NS is HORRIBLE with taking care of locomotives, MY GOD.
j4y33k4y j4y I am calm, just sayin NS sucks lol
So stupid why cant NS just convert them to AC traction Nd use them, why i hate NS and CSX
its not stupid, its smart. it wpuld be a waste of time, money and resources. it would be very stupid to convert old DC locomotives like these to AC.
@@thedwaynerailfans I strongly Disagree, here are my reasons.
1. Old DC Dash 9’s are being rebuilt, which I’ve already seen a handful of those burnt up already!
2. They took old, unreliable, and purged SD90macs, rebuilt those and somewhat recently sold half of them even after being converted to ACU’s. (Waste IMO)
3.They ended the ACC only after 40 roughly because they felt it wasn’t as successful and something with Cat being their partnership.
Now I understand they tried with the super old like 80’s Dash 8’s but not the more recent 94 built Dash 8’s which were very successful and lasted all the way till 2018 without any upgrades and poorly maintained.
I conclude that the D8-40CW both CSX & NS if done properly with SERIOUS intentions to actually make a good locomotive and not some halfass project like the 8.5’s then they would most certainly be worth it. These are just my opinions and I respect yours. At the end of the day if there’s no Conrail heritage then there’s no me as I grown up with Conrail locomotives.
@@thebluehero2219 that is valid, bht its way harder to convert an older model such as a dash 8 to AC traction because of how they were build. its doable, but not worth it. ts easier to convert a dash 9 cuz their internals are already easy to work with. NS C6Ms are overall successful, they just overheat easier cuz of only one cooling fan vs 2, which was standard for GE. im not sure hpw many the GEVOs have, but i wanna say 2
NS sold over 40 ACUs because theyre bad in performance. they were built in altoona, and altoona is known to take the cheap way out of rebuilds, thus why theyre crap. ACUs in general is a bad idea and bad in performance. CPs are better maintained cuz EMD/PRLX actually did them themselves and knew what to do. NS just speed ran it to save money. only 4 of their ACUs were actually done by EMD/PRLX iirc
Most Loco users are upset about the emission rules. We want to leave some air for our ancestors to breathe.
The air's not going anywhere.. Maybe the quality of it will but that remains to be seen.
In that case, we should just get rid of all cars, trucks, and planes, since they pollute the air way more than any diesel train ever could in a single trip.
I don't really think our ancestors need to breathe any air at the current moment; most having been dead now for quite some time. If you mean 'descendants' .. then possibly a point here but keep in mind that even tier-0 units pollute much, much less than the truck traffic they can replace. I get what you are saying, but railroading is inherently one of the 'greenest' if not the 'greenest' mode of logistics available. On average, a train can move one ton of freight, on one gallon of diesel, a distance of 436 miles or more.
Great Video!!!
Thanks Doughnut!