So these Cardy-Dom Joint orders seem to be a mix between the German Waffen SS foreign divisions, 40k Astartes, and the Covenant Ministries of Fervent Intercession & Preservation from Halo. Indeed their blind fanaticism makes them a particularly concerning threat. I'm curious to see the specifics on how they finally fall.
The name is fitting, indeed a little on the nose, since a Janissary is a religious convert slave-soldier, given up to an Empire's rulers as a tribute from the conquered
Yeah, but they all still share a single braincell and that braincell is called a Vorta. And being how the Cardassians are already bred to rarely think outside the box anyway. And the Jem Hadar LITERALLY being bred to never think or rarely think outside the box. The weak link in all of this: The Vorta put in charge. And not saying that there aren't those Vorta who are tactical geniuses and such. But, they aren't that common or allowed to live very long at times.
I wonder if at some point they would find a way to addict them to White, or some modified version of it for Cardassians, and make them go through the ritual daily to pledge allegiance, receive the gift from the Founders, etc.. The drug could also function as some kind of stimulant for them too, so perhaps not addict them then, but they get to take it before each battle.
Yeah like panzer chocolate would certainly explain their energy and aggression levels... or perhaps mixed with the drug given to the sentries on empok nor
No.. the Dominion are different from the BORG... the Borg want everyone to become one of them, whilst the founders want no one to be like them. The ultimate aim for the BORG is to spiritually seek what they believe to approach perfection... they are infinitely mailable and everchanging, ever adapting, making the traits they find useful their own. not so with the Dominion...they fully believe they are perfection already. they are more like Species 8472, in that there ideology is to nullify the threat all that is not them... not quite destroy as in the later's case, but make them either fully dependent or hopelessly weak.
I think he means the shape of some of the Cardassian ships but honestly I didn't note any correlation until I read it and I don't think it's fitting. Also it's hard to design so many different ships for different races. I personally give them a lot of credit for a job well done drawing us into the lore.
I always wondered if any of the other dominion member races in the gamma quadrant still had their own ships and maybe their own home defense fleets within the dominion like the Breen and Cardassians had theirs. I think I remember reading the writers initially wanted the dominion to have more species in their military ranks like the Son’a crews but budget got in the way.
No that's not really how the dominion works members cannot have any military of their own. Allied races can. Another question is are there any dominion races serving aboard the bigger ships
Yep. I think the Dominion wouldn't want their subject races to have their own militaries because that, by definition, would promote more independent thinking among those subjects. If you can see to your own defense and security, why would you feel like you need the Dominion? The Dominion wants their subject races to be utterly dependent on them. Without the Dominion, they are nothing. You'd better stay in their good graces, or the next time pirates raid your shipping, the Jem'Hadar may not lift a finger to help. If the Founders are displeased with you and send the Jem'Hadar to hit you with some kind of punitive strike, you're helpless to oppose them. Better start begging for mercy, because that's literally ALL you can do.
No. But I don't see why they wouldn't operate trade ships. With perhaps wnough firepower to discourage pirates, but nothing for Jem Hadar attack ships to worry about. And these trade fleets could get very large. After all, the Dominion is huge and there's no way they would waste Jem Hadar on internal trade ships. So it makes sense for member races to take care of that aspect.
I wonder how many ships are in the a combined order. If I recall correctly, a Cardassian order has 94-108 combat vessels, and a Dominion fleet has 90-150 combat vessels.
It was a cold dark day. The streets in the city were muddied with rain, snow, and blood. Of course, he's just a regular Cardassian trooper. He was conscripted for the war, sent to the frontlines. And he's deployed alongside the joint orders. Suddenly, a joint order Glinn walked up to him, and rounded him up, alongside some other troopers and made them line up. Suddenly, they're all handed a rifle. He's brought to a group of the colonists. Some human, other trill, a portion of the local colonist captured during the assault. "Gentlemen! These people are guilty of sabotage, and are to be executed." Suddenly, the rifle in his hand felt heavier, and a cold sense of dread crept up his spine. "Sir, these people are non combatants! They weren't guerilla fighters, they were just hiding!" he said, his eyes gazed upon the row of the condemned, some as young as 15, and others as old as 70. "You, step forward! Are you disobaying a direct order, trooper?" the Glinn said coldly, his heart devoid of any empathy and compassion. He could only silently stepped back. "ready weapons!" the Glinn ordered loudly. The young trooper's hand shakily reached for the charging handle, and 'chambered a round'. "Take aim!" the cold voice yelled again. He can only shakily shoulder his rifle, and line up the slights to the condemned's forehead. He only prayed it'd be quick. "FIRE!" The order came, and he silently closed his eyes and pulled the trigger. The Glinn searched the now still bodies before him, as they are now slumped to the floor, callously raising pistol and shooting anyone that might have survived. "Trooper... If I see you hesitate again..." the glinn began, his eyes staring into the young trooper's coldly, exuding an aura of fear and authority. "You'll be up there next."
Maybe the dominion got some completely loyal Cardassians but did they not realize how horrified everyone not in the joint order was at the ideology and training they were giving their kids. To a Cardassian family was the most important thing but when they see the dominion trying to take that away from their culture it's yet another reason a mass rebellion was inevitable!
Limited production. But the reasons were largely political the dominion basically didn't want the cardassians to have more hutets than they had battleships...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 They could have a really good pension plan, them and their families moved into specially built cities or compounds for the new orders elite, maybe a bit like North Korea? Good video, emphasized a lot of what they had to sacrifice just thinking about potential rewards. Prestige may be sort of not what we think, id bet a lot of the Cardasian military and people would not like them at all, but they would fear them I suppose. Would be cool if they were a bit like the imperial guard where there rank was one step higher than an equivalent officer or soldier so although you may get a Gul it's on par with a regular Legate.
"I would promise the Breen the entire Alpha Quradent if I believe it would will this war," - Female Founder It strange that even if the Dominion won the war, the Dominion would ultimately fail in its solo purpose to protect and serve the Founder who are now dying by Section 31 virus without firing a shoot. If the war held off a few years long, the Founder would be extinction and Dominion won't know who done it. Maybe they sreach for the lost 100 founders like Odo.
@Venom Geek Media 98 Yeah, that makes sense. How many do you think were built? And were there any problems in restarting their construction line sense the Cardassians only had experience constructing the first 2
Because joint order tactics are based on mobility and fluidity. The Keldon is a slow assault ship. Which the dominion don't have much need for at this point In the war.
So .... we see Gem Hadar moving in packs, we see Klingon moving in packs, its hinted that the Romulan move in packs. Starfleet, often moves in packs....except when it matters most....like most situations illustrated in shows. Why did every ship and following show only ever have one ship? Why didnt ships travel in fleets? Or even pairs! Its ridiculous!
it actually makes a lot of sense to have single super powerful ships... space is big, and ships are a major investment, so the numbers will always be small... if you can get away with one ship in one place at one time... there is always a large stimulus to do just that... basically, the philosophy is to have your fleet as spread out as you can reasonably afford it... only powers that use small, non-capital, vessels use packs to compensate for the lacking's of their single units. the Gem-Hadar use fighters, whilst the Klingons use B'rels and other small fry which are almost fighter ships... I do not recall Starfleet or the Romulans ever truly using wolfpacks, more line-fleet tactics... something which makes sense with expensive capital ships
Considering that the Cardassians seemed like a very secular people, who didn't practice any overt religions, the part about Joint Order recruits having to honestly believe the Founders to be Gods seems like the biggest hurdle to their recruitment. Among the Vorta and Jem'Hadar this is a matter of programming, with it being hardwired into their very DNA to worship the Founders. For Cardassians, this is going to be a matter of indoctrination and given that the Dominion has only had a presence in the Alpha few a few short years, finding suitable recruits is going to be an issue. That said, it may be possible to co-opt the already existing cultural indoctrination of loyalty to the state, by simply telling them the Dominion is The State and then rolling the religious aspects into that. In any case, the Joint Orders seem like something one wouldn't expect to see in any real numbers for at least a generation of Cardassia as a Dominion vassal.
So the cardassians were quite spiritual before the military government. And some families and ethnic groups remained practicing. But the other thing to consider with a secular society... there's less competition
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think my point stands that the religious aspects of the Joint Orders would represent the biggest hurdle, but that the existing Cardassian indoctrination of loyalty to the state would be the most effective means of recruiting.
Anyone on the front of this war have no delusions. This is a knockout, dragout heavyweight fight to tar finish. Not everyone will be coming home. Those of you under my command know this, I expect every one of you to bring me at least 12 ketracel white tubes per officer, and people, I want my tubes. In truth people, give no quarter, expect no quarter. For this occasion the RRTF has been renamed, in honor of our contributions they’ve renamed us Task Force Ghost. It is our job to keep haunting our enemies until we’re ready to take the offensive. Good luck to you all. ( Speech Record for Starfleet command recorded by Matthew Caughey for those in his unit)
@@aiosquadron For a warcrime, you have to be charged. The federation wasn't at this point going to do that. The federation had truly fallen far morally and didn't even pretend otherwise in DS9. Its a federation pushed to its breaking.
While I like this idea, the stated fanatical loyalty of the Cardassian members of these combined orders is a bit much. There just isn't time enough for that kind of loyalty to be reliably and consistently cultivated, not without some active brain washing/mind control with technology and/or drugs. The Cardassians and others of the Alpha Quadrant have experimented with such techniques and it is very probable that the Dominion would have this capacity as well. But... that was not state nor implied in this video, so the loyalty that the Dominion commands from the Cardassian members of its combine orders is a bit far-fetched.
You don't think? It doesn't take long for someone to be ideologically possessed. Think how quickly young people can be radicalised by various leaders and movements in history
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but there are levels to radicalization and usually such leaders and movements piggy back on already existing and long standing loyalties and customs. While some, even a significant minority of the Combined Order members could be so lacking in any loyalty at all to Cardassia and easily manipulated into radicalization to an utter stranger of a culture as the Dominion while still maintaining the level of talent as you have described, that could not be the case universally across all such members as you indicated. Not in the time frame in which the Dominion had at its disposal. If the Dominion had had a free hand in Cardassia for a period of 2 years to work in the open before war would strain logistics, I could just believe it possible for such universal loyalties among the Combined Orders' soldiers. Such as it is in accepted canon, the Dominion wasn't in Cardassia for much more than 6 months, if that, before the war started. Now I can believe that most, if not all, Combined Order soldiers held a considerable outward loyalty to the Dominion in such a way that some were very fanatically loyal to the Dominion, and the rest either were fanatically loyal to those some and others followed suit out of esprit de corp, and thus the unit would fight as hard and brutally as any elite order loyal to Cardassia. I can believe the Dominion had time enough for that using passive conditioning and brain washing as you have described in your video. The reason this is a hard point for me is that I have been a student of history for most of my life, my father was a history teacher. In my all studies involving such radical movements, whether they be Nazi, Communist, religious, etc., there is a point at which such radicalization of loyalty comes at the cost of talent and competency. After picking the low laying fruit, the leaders of the radical movements will have to eventually chose between one who is unquestionably loyal yet limited in ability and one who is top notch in the required expertise yet their loyalty will only go so far reliably. This is true for average psyche of humanity and the Cardassian species, like most in Star Trek, have an average psyche analogous to that of humanity. Unless you are working under different assumptions, which you have not stated as far as I know, I believe my arguments stand. What say you?
@@lanebowles8170 Actually, we have a real world example of this. In just a few short years, Adolf manage to radicalize men to the point of doing the holocaust, the warcrimes assoicated with the waffen SS and wehrmacht. The waffen SS is almost a 1 to 1 translation, and they were so fanatically they kept fighting until the bitter end. Being the corner stone of the desperate defense of Germany time and time again. (And actually had a solid amount of success, even if no one could forever hold back the tide.) Adolf took power in the 30s, and by the time he started ww2 in 39 had already mass-indoctrinated a good chunk of germany. Not just men.
@@NeiasaurusCreations I am afraid that your comparison between the SS and the Combined Orders is flawed for two reasons. First, Adolf didn't start building the SS when he became chancellor in 1933, and even if he did that would mean he had roughly 6 years to radicalize its members when the Dominion only had at most a year and that is probably being generous to the Dominion. In reality, the SS was started sometime in the mid-1920's, and would evolved somewhat as time went on, but that means that the SS had nearly a decade and a half to radicalize its members before the war even started! That is not to mention the Nazi youth movements, like the Hitler Youth, that did a lot of the radicalization at very young ages and most SS members, in the later war years at least, participated heavily in the Hitler Youth. Second, the ideology of Adolf and the SS wasn't really new, it had been long established in Germany and even Europe in general for decades to centuries. Yes, Adolf and the SS took it to an extreme rarely seen, but its not like they preached much that was new and original to them alone. Thus, Adolf and the SS piggybacked off of already existing and long standing loyalties and customs with the only real difference being the extremes with which they were believed and applied. Now you could argue that the Dominion was also piggybacking off of the existing Cardassian traditions of loyalty and such, but if you pay attention to the video Venom states quite the opposite. While such utter loyalty to the Founders may not be 180 degree shift in radicalization, it would at least be a sharp 90 degree turn with a steep climb up a mountain for the Cardassian recruits. I also must point out that from what little we know and is implied of Cardassian culture, the Cardassian Union went to great lengths to radicalize it population from a young age. Thus, finding Cardassian recruits unconnected to prior Regimes is itself farfetched as most young Cardassians would have had some kind of indoctrination already that the Dominion would have to deal with.
@@lanebowles8170 1) 6 years is still an incredibly short amount of time. And not every waffen SS soldiers was worked on for 6 years. In fact, most of them were NOT given 6 years of brain washing. So a year is probably more time than most actually received their "training" that turned them into fanatical soldiers. Use your head, what training program lasts 6 years? Not even the US soldier's take THAT much time to train. 2) The organization started in the 20s, but each soldier likely did not join it, some of the higher staff of the waffen SS did. But it took a while for the "waffen SS" to even become a formation, and was low in training and equipment because the army did not like the competition. And simply put most soldiers did not recieve training the entire time the waffen SS existed either. So its kinda a moot point here. 3) The combined orders are HEAVILY inspired by the waffen SS. Just the description of the two organization and how they trained including the political/loyalty courses show an eerie similarity. So even if it wasn't a literal carbon copy doesn't mean they weren't inspired by the waffen SS. Fiction doesn't need to perfectly copy something to have inspiration from it. That's absurd to say 'oh because there's less time, therefor its not inspired by it' is a silly argument at best. And its not even true, either. Again, no soldier received 6 years of training mate.
I'm looking forward to when the Joint Orders have to face the Remens in ground combat.
Agreed.
The Klingons sit with popcorn and watch the severed limbs start flying...
@@weldonwinnot popcorn but gogh
So these Cardy-Dom Joint orders seem to be a mix between the German Waffen SS foreign divisions, 40k Astartes, and the Covenant Ministries of Fervent Intercession & Preservation from Halo.
Indeed their blind fanaticism makes them a particularly concerning threat.
I'm curious to see the specifics on how they finally fall.
They're nothing like 40k astartes, or literally nothing could stand in their path. 100 astartes can conquar a world.
What about Russian nkvd divisions?
We need a video on the Janissary class. Looks wise it is like the Cardassian version of a Kamarag
i suppose... long sleek but very different designs.
The name is fitting, indeed a little on the nose, since a Janissary is a religious convert slave-soldier, given up to an Empire's rulers as a tribute from the conquered
Cardassian cunning with Jem Hadar brute strength and force of violence is a terrifying combination.
Yeah, but they all still share a single braincell and that braincell is called a Vorta. And being how the Cardassians are already bred to rarely think outside the box anyway. And the Jem Hadar LITERALLY being bred to never think or rarely think outside the box. The weak link in all of this: The Vorta put in charge. And not saying that there aren't those Vorta who are tactical geniuses and such. But, they aren't that common or allowed to live very long at times.
Sounds like all the qualities of my Mrs lol
Cardassian Joint Order = What happens when you put the Praetorian Guard through Spetznaz training and led by the NKVD (Vorta). Scary af.
Think about postwar victory hunting the federation, Klingon, Romulan resistance
So they are a Commissarial unit..
I wonder if at some point they would find a way to addict them to White, or some modified version of it for Cardassians, and make them go through the ritual daily to pledge allegiance, receive the gift from the Founders, etc.. The drug could also function as some kind of stimulant for them too, so perhaps not addict them then, but they get to take it before each battle.
Yeah like panzer chocolate would certainly explain their energy and aggression levels... or perhaps mixed with the drug given to the sentries on empok nor
@@venomgeekmedia9886 LOL. A whole new kind of "White Chocolate"
To the regular Cardassian Orders, they view the Joint Cardassian Orders with suspicion and probably with disdain due to the ever decreasing morale.
Yesss
The Dominion our basically the Borg just with out assimilation lol the way you explain them every time for me it screams BORG 😂
No.. the Dominion are different from the BORG... the Borg want everyone to become one of them, whilst the founders want no one to be like them.
The ultimate aim for the BORG is to spiritually seek what they believe to approach perfection... they are infinitely mailable and everchanging, ever adapting, making the traits they find useful their own.
not so with the Dominion...they fully believe they are perfection already.
they are more like Species 8472, in that there ideology is to nullify the threat all that is not them... not quite destroy as in the later's case, but make them either fully dependent or hopelessly weak.
1 of your best vids, Venom. Definitely a 'keep coming back to'-a. Keep up the good work 👍
Somewhat interesting symbology going on here! Labiatastic!
Did I miss something?
I think he means the shape of some of the Cardassian ships but honestly I didn't note any correlation until I read it and I don't think it's fitting. Also it's hard to design so many different ships for different races. I personally give them a lot of credit for a job well done drawing us into the lore.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 They seem to be modeled after the german SS. A lot of what the orders want, is exactly what the waffen SS did.
The Combine? Weren't they defeated by a mute professor with a crowbar?
WOW. Everything about the training of the joint orders is flat-out terrifying. Getting serious vibes of the ssDivisions
I always wondered if any of the other dominion member races in the gamma quadrant still had their own ships and maybe their own home defense fleets within the dominion like the Breen and Cardassians had theirs. I think I remember reading the writers initially wanted the dominion to have more species in their military ranks like the Son’a crews but budget got in the way.
No that's not really how the dominion works members cannot have any military of their own. Allied races can. Another question is are there any dominion races serving aboard the bigger ships
Yep. I think the Dominion wouldn't want their subject races to have their own militaries because that, by definition, would promote more independent thinking among those subjects. If you can see to your own defense and security, why would you feel like you need the Dominion?
The Dominion wants their subject races to be utterly dependent on them. Without the Dominion, they are nothing. You'd better stay in their good graces, or the next time pirates raid your shipping, the Jem'Hadar may not lift a finger to help. If the Founders are displeased with you and send the Jem'Hadar to hit you with some kind of punitive strike, you're helpless to oppose them. Better start begging for mercy, because that's literally ALL you can do.
No. But I don't see why they wouldn't operate trade ships. With perhaps wnough firepower to discourage pirates, but nothing for Jem Hadar attack ships to worry about. And these trade fleets could get very large. After all, the Dominion is huge and there's no way they would waste Jem Hadar on internal trade ships. So it makes sense for member races to take care of that aspect.
The hunter species were supposed to be a member race for one.
Another great video I somehow missed lol! Thanks!!😀
Excellent!
I always said that all nations that have large military they have elite troops great video can't wait to see the Betazed video
oh yeah. sometimes competing versions of elite troops like in the US where every branch has its own special forces.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 each special force has a different primary mission, and while they have to a degree over crossing over.
@@eddierudolph8702 and here we are with just the SAS
@@venomgeekmedia9886 No sir, you also have the Royal Marines commandos and the SBS
@@eddierudolph8702 yeah but those aren't special forces.
Great video. Interesting lore and very well narrated.
12:23 that first fleet composition is nasty looking
The way you describe the power of a polaron phaser is akin to a star wars superlaser and a Halo plasma lance
Amazing
An image of a Starfleet Ambassador-class in battle followed by the same actress who played Capt. Rachael Garrett? I see what you did, there...
Brilliant.
12:46 the second fleet composition is terrifying
Cheers
13:10 the third fleet composition is the most efficient looking
Ooh good world building. I love it
If they can’t be born before 2340, that would make their maximum age 35, not 25
But other than that, great video as always 👍🏻
My maths isn't the greatest. But yeah 35 still relatively young.
Sweet video
I wonder how many ships are in the a combined order. If I recall correctly, a Cardassian order has 94-108 combat vessels, and a Dominion fleet has 90-150 combat vessels.
Some of these duties that you describe like keeping the Kardashians in line, almost sound like the commissars in the Russian army during World War II
It was a cold dark day.
The streets in the city were muddied with rain, snow, and blood.
Of course, he's just a regular Cardassian trooper. He was conscripted for the war, sent to the frontlines.
And he's deployed alongside the joint orders. Suddenly, a joint order Glinn walked up to him, and rounded him up, alongside some other troopers and made them line up. Suddenly, they're all handed a rifle.
He's brought to a group of the colonists. Some human, other trill, a portion of the local colonist captured during the assault.
"Gentlemen! These people are guilty of sabotage, and are to be executed."
Suddenly, the rifle in his hand felt heavier, and a cold sense of dread crept up his spine.
"Sir, these people are non combatants! They weren't guerilla fighters, they were just hiding!" he said, his eyes gazed upon the row of the condemned, some as young as 15, and others as old as 70.
"You, step forward! Are you disobaying a direct order, trooper?" the Glinn said coldly, his heart devoid of any empathy and compassion.
He could only silently stepped back.
"ready weapons!" the Glinn ordered loudly. The young trooper's hand shakily reached for the charging handle, and 'chambered a round'.
"Take aim!" the cold voice yelled again.
He can only shakily shoulder his rifle, and line up the slights to the condemned's forehead. He only prayed it'd be quick.
"FIRE!"
The order came, and he silently closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.
The Glinn searched the now still bodies before him, as they are now slumped to the floor, callously raising pistol and shooting anyone that might have survived.
"Trooper... If I see you hesitate again..." the glinn began, his eyes staring into the young trooper's coldly, exuding an aura of fear and authority.
"You'll be up there next."
Hi, do you have a minute? Have you thought about the Founders plan for you?
Maybe the dominion got some completely loyal Cardassians but did they not realize how horrified everyone not in the joint order was at the ideology and training they were giving their kids. To a Cardassian family was the most important thing but when they see the dominion trying to take that away from their culture it's yet another reason a mass rebellion was inevitable!
Yeah family and the state as the extension of the family unit. Something the dominion does not factor into.
THey are Cardassian Dominion fanatics.
Wait. In Hunting the Hutet, it spoke of the ship as a one off. Too impractical to be worth it. Why were more built, and in so short of time?
Limited production. But the reasons were largely political the dominion basically didn't want the cardassians to have more hutets than they had battleships...
The janissary is in my opinion a cheaper alternative to the hutet class
What benefits aside from equipment do the soldiers of these joint orders receive? What is the appeal to joining?
i mean prestige... future advancement. snappy uniforms. probably better pay... for what thats worth at this point in the war.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 They could have a really good pension plan, them and their families moved into specially built cities or compounds for the new orders elite, maybe a bit like North Korea? Good video, emphasized a lot of what they had to sacrifice just thinking about potential rewards. Prestige may be sort of not what we think, id bet a lot of the Cardasian military and people would not like them at all, but they would fear them I suppose. Would be cool if they were a bit like the imperial guard where there rank was one step higher than an equivalent officer or soldier so although you may get a Gul it's on par with a regular Legate.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 It worked with the SS.
"I would promise the Breen the entire Alpha Quradent if I believe it would will this war," - Female Founder
It strange that even if the Dominion won the war, the Dominion would ultimately fail in its solo purpose to protect and serve the Founder who are now dying by Section 31 virus without firing a shoot. If the war held off a few years long, the Founder would be extinction and Dominion won't know who done it. Maybe they sreach for the lost 100 founders like Odo.
About that, I feel sorry for that changeling who was just going around and got infected by Odo
But the dominion at least initially would live on... for a time before splitting up into warlords.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Wayoun as a petty warlord...good lord.
The WW1 term is Wastage. The loss that happens when solders die from many causes on the front.
Would those Cardassians chosen for the Joint Orders, also be introduced to the White?
Yep they certainly would.
@@venomgeekmedia9886and if that was not compatible, Kanar for sure!
I thought you said that the Vorta decided to boycott all future Hutet class battleships to be built because of doctrinal problems with the ship's?
that was until the romulans joined the war... and brought a fleet of warbirds with them.
@Venom Geek Media 98 Yeah, that makes sense. How many do you think were built? And were there any problems in restarting their construction line sense the Cardassians only had experience constructing the first 2
If only Dukat and Damar realized what the Dominion truely was before throwing in with them........
Dukat knew; he was just arrogant enough to think he could fool them.
@@jessecarozza8134 And Damar was devoted to Dukat.
Not much options with the Klingons battering them. Don't leave your for without a way out
Yeah damar trusted dukat and then inherited his mess didn't really know what he was doing and differed to weyoun.
In this video you say that the Cardassians had several Hu'tets. Yet in the video on the Hu'tet you said they only had two.
Two at the time of that video
By this point in the war you have the Obrek the Jazuk and the Nasat
@@venomgeekmedia9886 It seems that the Hutet's excellent performance in the battle of the giants may have changed the dominion's mind. ;)
So, its a Dominion Blocking Detachment.
Partially. Much like the roman Triauri
No Keldon Class for the joint order? So sad this awsome ships didn't get much love.
Because joint order tactics are based on mobility and fluidity. The Keldon is a slow assault ship. Which the dominion don't have much need for at this point In the war.
I'm surprised they don't have any tornen class carriers
i thought that only 2 Hutets were created, the Hutet and Obrek ? didnt the Dominion cancel all further production of Hutets after the Obrek
Romulan warbirds can go a long way towards changing someone’s mind :3
@@geekiusmaximus1882 true
Some requirements to join the Orders seem they wouldn't be... let's say...publicly disclosed.
Yes although during initial selection they will pre-select for people open to indoctrination
That insignia on the thumbnail is unintentional porn😂
So people keep telling me...
So .... we see Gem Hadar moving in packs, we see Klingon moving in packs, its hinted that the Romulan move in packs. Starfleet, often moves in packs....except when it matters most....like most situations illustrated in shows. Why did every ship and following show only ever have one ship? Why didnt ships travel in fleets?
Or even pairs!
Its ridiculous!
Well because they are exploring most of the time. And that involves a greater degree of dispersal. I'm ds9 we see ships travel in fleets.
it actually makes a lot of sense to have single super powerful ships...
space is big, and ships are a major investment, so the numbers will always be small...
if you can get away with one ship in one place at one time... there is always a large stimulus to do just that... basically, the philosophy is to have your fleet as spread out as you can reasonably afford it...
only powers that use small, non-capital, vessels use packs to compensate for the lacking's of their single units. the Gem-Hadar use fighters, whilst the Klingons use B'rels and other small fry which are almost fighter ships...
I do not recall Starfleet or the Romulans ever truly using wolfpacks, more line-fleet tactics... something which makes sense with expensive capital ships
Considering that the Cardassians seemed like a very secular people, who didn't practice any overt religions, the part about Joint Order recruits having to honestly believe the Founders to be Gods seems like the biggest hurdle to their recruitment. Among the Vorta and Jem'Hadar this is a matter of programming, with it being hardwired into their very DNA to worship the Founders. For Cardassians, this is going to be a matter of indoctrination and given that the Dominion has only had a presence in the Alpha few a few short years, finding suitable recruits is going to be an issue. That said, it may be possible to co-opt the already existing cultural indoctrination of loyalty to the state, by simply telling them the Dominion is The State and then rolling the religious aspects into that. In any case, the Joint Orders seem like something one wouldn't expect to see in any real numbers for at least a generation of Cardassia as a Dominion vassal.
So the cardassians were quite spiritual before the military government. And some families and ethnic groups remained practicing. But the other thing to consider with a secular society... there's less competition
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think my point stands that the religious aspects of the Joint Orders would represent the biggest hurdle, but that the existing Cardassian indoctrination of loyalty to the state would be the most effective means of recruiting.
Bon ong song suot duoi Ice. Vi tran bon ong kieu vay.
Traitors treason should never prosper ( Shakespeare)
Isn't the Sartan contemporary with tmp era?
That might be what it says on the bio.... but it fits much more as a successor to the Rasilak
25 makes sense. ( a generation)
Anyone on the front of this war have no delusions. This is a knockout, dragout heavyweight fight to tar finish. Not everyone will be coming home. Those of you under my command know this, I expect every one of you to bring me at least 12 ketracel white tubes per officer, and people, I want my tubes. In truth people, give no quarter, expect no quarter. For this occasion the RRTF has been renamed, in honor of our contributions they’ve renamed us Task Force Ghost. It is our job to keep haunting our enemies until we’re ready to take the offensive. Good luck to you all. ( Speech Record for Starfleet command recorded by Matthew Caughey for those in his unit)
Andddd that's a war crime!
Declaring "No quarters" is, in fact, a war crime!
@@aiosquadron I was wondering, what happens to Jem Hadar who are captured? Do they take their own lives like Vorta are meant to?
@@A407RAC Hmm... Seppuku?
@@aiosquadron For a warcrime, you have to be charged. The federation wasn't at this point going to do that. The federation had truly fallen far morally and didn't even pretend otherwise in DS9. Its a federation pushed to its breaking.
While I like this idea, the stated fanatical loyalty of the Cardassian members of these combined orders is a bit much. There just isn't time enough for that kind of loyalty to be reliably and consistently cultivated, not without some active brain washing/mind control with technology and/or drugs. The Cardassians and others of the Alpha Quadrant have experimented with such techniques and it is very probable that the Dominion would have this capacity as well. But... that was not state nor implied in this video, so the loyalty that the Dominion commands from the Cardassian members of its combine orders is a bit far-fetched.
You don't think? It doesn't take long for someone to be ideologically possessed. Think how quickly young people can be radicalised by various leaders and movements in history
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but there are levels to radicalization and usually such leaders and movements piggy back on already existing and long standing loyalties and customs. While some, even a significant minority of the Combined Order members could be so lacking in any loyalty at all to Cardassia and easily manipulated into radicalization to an utter stranger of a culture as the Dominion while still maintaining the level of talent as you have described, that could not be the case universally across all such members as you indicated. Not in the time frame in which the Dominion had at its disposal.
If the Dominion had had a free hand in Cardassia for a period of 2 years to work in the open before war would strain logistics, I could just believe it possible for such universal loyalties among the Combined Orders' soldiers. Such as it is in accepted canon, the Dominion wasn't in Cardassia for much more than 6 months, if that, before the war started. Now I can believe that most, if not all, Combined Order soldiers held a considerable outward loyalty to the Dominion in such a way that some were very fanatically loyal to the Dominion, and the rest either were fanatically loyal to those some and others followed suit out of esprit de corp, and thus the unit would fight as hard and brutally as any elite order loyal to Cardassia. I can believe the Dominion had time enough for that using passive conditioning and brain washing as you have described in your video.
The reason this is a hard point for me is that I have been a student of history for most of my life, my father was a history teacher. In my all studies involving such radical movements, whether they be Nazi, Communist, religious, etc., there is a point at which such radicalization of loyalty comes at the cost of talent and competency. After picking the low laying fruit, the leaders of the radical movements will have to eventually chose between one who is unquestionably loyal yet limited in ability and one who is top notch in the required expertise yet their loyalty will only go so far reliably. This is true for average psyche of humanity and the Cardassian species, like most in Star Trek, have an average psyche analogous to that of humanity. Unless you are working under different assumptions, which you have not stated as far as I know, I believe my arguments stand. What say you?
@@lanebowles8170 Actually, we have a real world example of this. In just a few short years, Adolf manage to radicalize men to the point of doing the holocaust, the warcrimes assoicated with the waffen SS and wehrmacht. The waffen SS is almost a 1 to 1 translation, and they were so fanatically they kept fighting until the bitter end. Being the corner stone of the desperate defense of Germany time and time again. (And actually had a solid amount of success, even if no one could forever hold back the tide.) Adolf took power in the 30s, and by the time he started ww2 in 39 had already mass-indoctrinated a good chunk of germany. Not just men.
@@NeiasaurusCreations I am afraid that your comparison between the SS and the Combined Orders is flawed for two reasons.
First, Adolf didn't start building the SS when he became chancellor in 1933, and even if he did that would mean he had roughly 6 years to radicalize its members when the Dominion only had at most a year and that is probably being generous to the Dominion. In reality, the SS was started sometime in the mid-1920's, and would evolved somewhat as time went on, but that means that the SS had nearly a decade and a half to radicalize its members before the war even started! That is not to mention the Nazi youth movements, like the Hitler Youth, that did a lot of the radicalization at very young ages and most SS members, in the later war years at least, participated heavily in the Hitler Youth.
Second, the ideology of Adolf and the SS wasn't really new, it had been long established in Germany and even Europe in general for decades to centuries. Yes, Adolf and the SS took it to an extreme rarely seen, but its not like they preached much that was new and original to them alone. Thus, Adolf and the SS piggybacked off of already existing and long standing loyalties and customs with the only real difference being the extremes with which they were believed and applied. Now you could argue that the Dominion was also piggybacking off of the existing Cardassian traditions of loyalty and such, but if you pay attention to the video Venom states quite the opposite. While such utter loyalty to the Founders may not be 180 degree shift in radicalization, it would at least be a sharp 90 degree turn with a steep climb up a mountain for the Cardassian recruits. I also must point out that from what little we know and is implied of Cardassian culture, the Cardassian Union went to great lengths to radicalize it population from a young age. Thus, finding Cardassian recruits unconnected to prior Regimes is itself farfetched as most young Cardassians would have had some kind of indoctrination already that the Dominion would have to deal with.
@@lanebowles8170
1) 6 years is still an incredibly short amount of time. And not every waffen SS soldiers was worked on for 6 years. In fact, most of them were NOT given 6 years of brain washing. So a year is probably more time than most actually received their "training" that turned them into fanatical soldiers. Use your head, what training program lasts 6 years? Not even the US soldier's take THAT much time to train.
2) The organization started in the 20s, but each soldier likely did not join it, some of the higher staff of the waffen SS did. But it took a while for the "waffen SS" to even become a formation, and was low in training and equipment because the army did not like the competition. And simply put most soldiers did not recieve training the entire time the waffen SS existed either. So its kinda a moot point here.
3) The combined orders are HEAVILY inspired by the waffen SS. Just the description of the two organization and how they trained including the political/loyalty courses show an eerie similarity. So even if it wasn't a literal carbon copy doesn't mean they weren't inspired by the waffen SS. Fiction doesn't need to perfectly copy something to have inspiration from it. That's absurd to say 'oh because there's less time, therefor its not inspired by it' is a silly argument at best. And its not even true, either. Again, no soldier received 6 years of training mate.
Song duoi Bang. Ice.
Wow I didn’t know this…